Join us for a spine-tingling exploration of art business horror stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat! We dive into the chilling experiences shared by artists Paige Weber and Priscilla Patterson, who recount their real-life encounters with unexpected challenges in their careers. From lost artworks to contracts gone awry, these tales reveal the importance of protecting oneself in the art world. You’ll learn valuable lessons on the necessity of contracts, how to handle difficult clients, and the significance of being discerning when showcasing your work. As we share these haunting anecdotes, we hope to equip you with the tools to navigate your own artistic journey with resilience and resourcefulness.

Today's podcast brings to light the often-overlooked challenges that artists face in their careers, particularly in navigating the business side of art. This episode serves as a timely reminder of the potential pitfalls that can arise in the creative profession, inviting listeners to learn from the experiences of others rather than facing their own gruesome misadventures.

Featuring guests Paige Weber and Priscilla Patterson, both artists share personal anecdotes that highlight the importance of contracts and clear communication in the art world. Paige recounts a distressing experience with a portrait commission for a grieving mother, where a lack of a formal agreement led to misunderstandings and ultimately losing her work without compensation. This story underscores the necessity of having a solid contract, complete with clauses for revisions and deposits, to protect both the artist and the client. Meanwhile, Priscilla reflects on her early career, sharing a tale of lost artwork and untrustworthy galleries, which emphasizes the need for artists to be discerning about where they showcase their work.

As the discussions unfold, listeners are encouraged to view these stories not just as horror tales but as valuable lessons in resilience and resourcefulness. The episode concludes with practical advice on how to better manage art business dealings, including the importance of inventory tracking and maintaining strong professional boundaries. In a friendly and engaging tone, the podcast aims to empower artists to navigate their careers with confidence, turning potential nightmares into opportunities for growth and success.

Takeaways:

• Always use a contract when taking on commissioned work, even with local clients.
• Be cautious of red flags when clients can't provide necessary materials or good photos.
• It's acceptable to say no to projects that don't fit your artistic style or scope.
• Maintain an inventory list of your artwork to track where it is at all times.
• If a gallery sells or changes ownership, ensure your contract covers what happens to your work.
• Learn from past experiences to refine your approach and protect your art business.

Welcome to today's Cowgirl Artists of America podcast where we're diving into the often untold stories behind the scenes challenges artists face in the business side of their careers.

Today we'll be sharing some art business horror stories which may just become a Halloween tradition that we hope will provide insight into artists careers so that they can learn from other people's lessons without having to learn them themselves.

These stories highlight some of the bumps and bruises artists have experienced in their professional journeys and situations that have made a lasting impression, both good and bad.

Our goal is not to just discuss what happened, but to learn from these experiences and see how it shaped the artist's approach to their future career moves and moving forward.

So we hope these stories help you to avoid similar situations and most importantly, we hope that you see that resilience and resourcefulness can transform a negative experience into one of growth.

So today we have with us Paige Weber and Priscilla Patterson.

And they both have a story that they are going to share about something that they have encountered within their career.

But before we get started, I want to introduce both of them, actually have them introduce themselves because I love hearing what art how artists describe themselves.

So Priscilla, can you tell everybody just a little bit about you and your art career?

I started my business in Kodiak, Alaska probably 40 some years ago and with no art education but just pecking away with, you know, books and videos and eventually became involved with the American Society of Aviation Artists and I was accepted into the group.

And so the first, maybe the last, maybe the last 30 years of what I've been doing was aviation and we left Alaska and we're now living in Idaho.

And I've, I've gone from aircraft to western art to horses and once again am enjoying mentors and just learning all kinds of new things about just what I do in watercolor and.

But business has been interesting to say the least in all these years.

It is interesting and sometimes I think art business is the most interesting business with a lot of unique opportunities.

Paige, what about you?

Can you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and your career?

You bet.

So I'm Paige Weber.

I'm a western wildlife oil painter.

But I've also spent many years being an illustrator and a graphic designer.

So I have a varied history of drawing and painting, you know, in my career.

So I have some fun stories as well.

And both Priscilla and Paige, I think so something interesting that I don't think that either of them mentioned, Priscilla, you actually did.

I forget what they're called, but the like law enforcement Sketches, Correct.

That's something you've done?

Yes, I.

When I was teaching in.

In Kodiak at Kodiak College, and people wanted to learn portraiture, and I had no idea how to do this.

And so in order to teach it, I had to learn it and found a lady by the name of Carrie Stewart Parks, and they are.

They're here in Idaho in the Panhandle.

And I got her video and her book and used it to teach.

And then later, when we moved out of Alaska, I was able to take classes and became certified as a law enforcement art through Stuart Parks Forensics.

That's awesome.

And then, Paige, you have done murals as well?

Yeah, so I kind of got started in our community here doing murals, and then I've had the opportunity to work for.

Do some stuff for Walmart and my local community here, and even a project that's been in the works for two or three years, that's still.

I'm still waiting to get it hung up.

So.

Yeah, so we artists, we have all kinds of experiences, most of us, that we can like, kind of dive into for these quote, unquote, horror.

Horror stories, which we're of course saying for the Halloween season.

But, Paige, I wonder if we can start with.

You had a couple of stories you wanted to share that both kind of had similar lessons that you learned.

Would you mind sharing what those were?

Oh, I'd love to.

So, yeah, like she said, I had a couple.

A portrait project gone awry a little bit and a more commercial project that was a book project.

And the portrait project I kind of prefer to be communicated with through email because I have a hard time keeping track of all of the things otherwise.

But I had somebody contact me locally here who wanted several portraits of her children who had passed away in a tragic accident.

She wanted a variety of different portraits of them.

And I had just gotten out of the hospital and she was urgently sending me messages through Facebook.

And I felt like maybe this is a red.

A little red flag.

But I thought, well, maybe, you know, not everybody communicates an email.

But when I started on this project, I took a deposit from her, but I didn't actually make her sign it, a contract, which was my bad for not doing that.

But I thought, well, she's local, no problem.

And she also didn't provide me with imagery.

So, you know, she said, here's a link to my Facebook, just grab them off online.

Which I was being flexible and trying to be easy to work with.

And it was really challenging to do the illustration project with not Great photos.

So it taught me a couple things.

Get really good photos.

If people can't give you the materials that you need, that is a red flag as well.

And because I didn't have a contract in place, I had done all this work and I'd done two different illustrations.

So one was a digital portrait of her kids and one was a vector illustration project of her kids in uniforms.

And I had finished it, I'd sent her off the imagery and we had been working, you know, for, I don't know, a few weeks on this project.

And then she just decided that she didn't want to continue with the project.

So I had no way to protect myself.

And Sillily or, you know, I gave her her deposit back because I, I was afraid.

I didn't want to have a bad review.

And if I'd had my contract in place, I, I now have a definite non returnable deposit clause in all of my contracts.

And I generally always use a contract now, regardless of whether it's a commission or what it is, because it's just there to protect me and to protect the client as well.

So that was a lesson that I learned the hard way.

But it was a good lesson for me and it actually was the thing that pushed me to more wildlife art.

Anyway, so, so there was that.

And then the commercial book project was for a, a prominent children's property, movie property, and it was for a book that was going to be some paper dolls.

And this agent contacted me and they wanted me to do some illustrations for their book.

And because this was the first time I'd actually squeeze it in that way with this kind of company, I thought, okay, well, they have a purchase order, I'll use their purchase order.

I won't use my contract because I didn't want to upset the apple cart anywhere.

And I thought, well, this is fine.

And this project was only supposed to last for one to two months.

And then about the eight month mark and multiple revisions later, I finally had to kind of put my foot down and say, look, I can't do any more work on this project because, you know, this is really impacting my life.

But I didn't have a contract to protect myself, to really put my foot down.

And so I would implore you that if anybody balks at having to sign a contract for you to do work for them, to really consider whether you want to do work for that client.

Because most people in the business world don't have a problem.

They appreciate the fact that you have a contract.

And regardless of how flattering a client might be or how you might think that might look like on your resume.

Protect yourself first because flattery will get you nowhere in the big scheme of things.

And so.

And I always have a 50% non refundable deposit.

And so for folks who might really need help finding contract, there are lots of books that you can get that have contracts that you can use in them.

And this is a great book.

This is the handbook for pricing and ethical guidelines that designers and illustrators use.

And I use it for my business now.

And it's a great way to get started with a contract if you need to.

Did you.

So in the children's book project, did you have anything.

I guess.

But you didn't really have the contract.

But would you now have something for revisions?

Is there a way that you communicate that with your clients?

Well, thank you for that, because I do.

I actually have a revisions clause in my contract that says you get three revisions and anything outside of the scope of this project or outside of what we've agreed upon is $200 an hour.

And that's a great way to kind of squelch people who just want to have revision after revision because they become very decisive then.

Yeah, And I love how you put that.

The contract is to protect you and to protect them.

And really, like you said, anybody that bulks at having a contract or feels like it's offensive to them is probably somebody you're not going to work for, even if it's a family or a friend.

Because ultimately contracts prevent confusion.

And if there is confusion, you can go back to that contract and you can understand.

Are there, since you've had a contract, have there been any things that you've noticed, oh, I need to like edit that or this is like a definite must have in my contract.

Besides your 50% deposit.

I think that's really it.

And really emphasizing in my invoicing as well, stating that it's non refundable.

Same thing with my murals, non refundable.

I think just being very clear in that regard.

And being clear with yourself too, Right.

Like the clearer you are with yourself and the client, the better your project is going to be.

Yeah, for sure.

I also wonder with the lady who wanted the portraits done, I could see maybe feeling like you needed to accommodate her because she had just experienced this tragedy.

Was that something that came into play when you were making those decisions?

Absolutely.

Because, you know, of course you feel for this person and she's probably in a frame of mind that isn't clear.

Right.

Like it hadn't maybe been two or three years prior that this event had happened, but it really did.

It was an impact.

It.

It was the reason that I just, I was reactionary and I just said I would give it back to her.

So again, I would probably caution people, think about it, don't react, give yourself a day and then think about it and then respond to people.

You're a business, you know, you're in business.

And I, in that specific circumstance, I kind of came to terms with the fact that there was nothing that I could do.

Right.

It could have been the most perfect portrait.

I think it just wasn't going to bring back her kids.

And so, yeah, that's a really hard one.

But it is good, good to focus on the fact that you are a business.

And something I tell artists a lot, especially newer artists when they're struggling with things like that is pretend you're working for someone else.

Because if you were working for someone else and they said this is the process, you wouldn't be like, oh, I'll not follow that process for you.

You know, that's the process you have to follow.

And if you don't, you're probably going to get fired.

And so treat your business with the same respect that you would treat working for somebody else's.

One last thing that I would say to that, just to add is saying no is it's okay to say no to projects that don't fit within your scope, because it really is saying yes to something else.

So don't be afraid to say no.

If you have to, for sure.

That's such a huge one.

And it's so easy to feel like we need to say yes to everything.

And especially with artists, if you've got a style or something you're good at and people come and ask you to do something else, then you're risking not even fulfilling that in the way that they think.

And it's funny, because some artists don't.

Or some people who think they want art they don't really understand sometimes if they're just starting out collecting, that, oh, this person does this wildlife art, and they might ask you to paint a race car, you know, and it's you.

And.

And people ask me stuff like that, and I now I just confidently say, oh, you know, that's not something I do.

But if I find, if I know somebody, I'll give you their information or whatever so you can be that person to connect them.

But you don't have to say yes.

And when you do say yes, you're risking that not coming out the way that they want it?

Yes, 100%.

Well, thank you so much, Paige, for sharing your story.

I know that you may have to go, so if you hop off at any point, we know that you've gone.

And if you're here, we might ask you more questions, but we'll move over to Priscilla.

Priscilla, can you tell us what your story, your art business horror story?

Well, first of all, Paige, I wish I had known you when I went through the book deal because I could have learned a lot from you.

But that's not the horror story I have today.

When I was first starting out in business, a long time ago, we were living on Kodiak island in the Gulf of Alaska, which is 250 miles south of Anchorage.

And so any artwork that wasn't featured at the local gallery or at an annual arts and crafts show had to go off island.

And so I was so eager to get started in this.

I just, you know, this is the Red Rider BB gun story.

If you've ever watched the Christmas story.

I mean, a.

And it's going to be so great, and I can't wait.

Well, I did find a small gallery on the mainland, and I approached them and they said that I would get a show there, they would give me a show.

So I shipped a bunch of work off and I even.

I flew over there for the show.

It was.

It was great fun.

So now I could say I'm represented.

Well, sometime later, I heard the gallery folded and my work disappeared along with everybody else's.

The people were unreachable, and so everything was.

Was gone, just gone.

So I had to accept the fact that without being able to keep track of my work from so far away, I was just out of luck and I forgot about it.

So sometime later, many years later, we moved to the lower 48, and I received a call from an attorney who tracked me down.

He said he was representing a client whose father had passed away and was in possession of one of my original paintings.

And it's like, oh, I've been wondering where that was.

It was something I really liked, you know, and he.

He wanted to know information for.

For the estate because they were trying to evaluate the estate.

So I told him the story, and he said I was afraid of that.

He said the people had just gone into thin air.

So all I could tell him was the value of what the painting would have been if it had, you know, what, he probably would have paid for it.

But other than that, I had nothing.

I had no information and passed on my condolences to his client.

So the lesson learned is I'm more discerning about where the art is shown.

Yes, I get excited, but then it's like, let's think about this.

And as Paige said, instead of reacting, think about it.

Travel then as now, isn't always possible.

And back then, this was before the Internet, but now I evaluate carefully whether I enter an online exhibition or an on site exhibition.

And if it's on site, what the gallery is like, what the venue is like, and what my out of pocket expenses are going to be, including that you've got the entry fee, the shipping commission, and are those events even worth considering?

And I pass by now, I think more than I enter because of those considerations.

Because if you're going to send something off into the nebula, are you going to get it back?

So that's my story.

I was curious.

So, Priscilla, the lawyer who called representing this, you know, man who, the family of this man who had passed away, was the man associated with the gallery.

Nope.

He was a customer purchased it.

Wow.

He was a customer.

Yeah.

And so I, I hope he enjoyed it.

Yeah, that's such a hard one.

And you know, we had another person who had signed up to share a story, but they weren't able to come.

And so I'm going to share a part of mine that's similar with yours because I think there's some shared learning opportunities.

But I had sent several pieces to a gallery and I went, I went there, I drove and there were a couple things that I had noticed that seemed a little bit iffy, that they were a little slow to respond when I was, you know, emailing them and things like that.

But they really seemed more than anything like they were just really trying to do so much that it was, they were just slow because they were doing so much.

And I've been there, I get that.

So I went ahead and, you know, sent them a couple pieces.

I sold a big piece within two weeks and they were actually not even open the first week.

So it was really pretty great that that had happened.

Well, then I tried to send them two more pieces and the work kept getting sent back to me.

And I was like, what in the world?

And the post office was saying, it's there, it's nobody's there, it's closed.

And I was like, I called the gallery owner because he didn't listen, you know, he didn't respond.

And so I called and he was like, no, we're still here.

I don't know why they're doing that, but I got a little suspicious.

And so I called this business next to them and just acted like.

I was like, hey, what are your hours?

You know, and then I said, oh, do you know if that gallery next to you what their hours are?

You know, because I just wanted confirmation.

And they were open, but it turned.

They said it was odd hours, but it turned out that the gallery owner, the original owner who I had the contract with, had sold the gallery and they hadn't told any of the artists.

Now, I did kind of know this through the grapevine, and I thought it was going to be a good deal, and I just was like, whatever, it'll be fine.

You know, it turned out that it wasn't fine, and I had to really fight to get my work back.

And when I got it back, it was scuffed.

I had to actually take all the varnish off and repaint the background because I couldn't repair it without doing that.

And.

But it was truly a nightmare trying to get my work back.

And the new gallery owner was very rude and ignoring me.

And, like, I finally had to kind of make it sound like I was going to get lawyers to help defend me for getting my work back.

But the thing that was so shocking to me because I called my dad and I said, what do I do?

Do I.

You know, I've tried to be nice and that's not working.

Should I get really forceful?

And he's like, well, you better be careful because your contract isn't with that new gallery owner, it's with the old gallery owner.

And I had no idea that that would be the situation.

I would have thought, well, this person is buying this gallery, so they take on those contracts, and that's not the case.

So I would really encourage anybody who has their work with the gallery that their contract make sure to include a clause about if the gallery sells, what happens?

Because I would have never known, and it still blows my mind that that could happen, but it can happen so easily.

And then also, just for me, the lesson was I.

I did take calculated risks, but I did that ignoring a lot of red flags.

And I.

And I wonder for you, Priscilla, was there any red flags that you noticed that you just kind of ignored because you were so excited about the opportunity?

I don't.

They were so nice.

They were just.

They were so nice and they had a beautiful reception with food and everything.

And I had no reason to think that.

I mean, who knows what happened?

They could have had a tragedy in their life or something happened.

And.

But I had Nothing that you know and I don't.

But there was no contract.

There was no contract.

That's a red flag, too, for sure.

For if you are a new artist and a gallery wants to bring you on and there's not a contract, I would run the other way.

Yep.

I had no idea.

You had no idea at the time?

Yeah.

No.

Oh, I thought of one other thing that's a good thing to think about with the galleries, but it.

Oh, inventory.

So you talk about your inventory being gone, and that's another thing.

And it is hard, I think, to keep track of all that stuff.

And we all have our different ways of tracking that.

Maybe it's a spreadsheet in Google, or you might have Artwork archive.

Who, by the way, thank you for your sponsorship of women's work.

Artwork Archive.

But you might have something like that where you're tracking this.

But the gallery needs to also be signing off on what work they have.

If you really want to keep things on the up and up, there needs to be a.

A chain so that you can say, hey, look, you signed off that you had this and you don't have anything that I signed off that it's been returned to my possession.

And a lot of galleries don't do that either.

But it really, again, it goes back to protecting the artist and protecting the.

The gallery.

But of course, in your case, that wouldn't have helped you because they just kind of went into thin air.

Yep.

Off the face of the earth, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I think one of the lessons too, on your side is simply that things happen.

And Priscilla, one of the things that I.

I always really admire about you is you take such a positive approach to everything.

And I think it would be really easy to let that just, like, deflate somebody or just whatever.

I'm never doing this again.

But you took the approach of like, what can I learn from this?

Do it better.

Do it better next time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, awesome.

Did as your page.

And Priscilla, as you were listening and we were talking, did anything else come up for you that you want to leave any little words of wisdom to our listeners?

You know, one thing that I do now is I have a spreadsheet with all of the work that I create in it, and everything's got a number assigned to it.

And I keep track of where it goes.

And it.

It just keeps me from having to worry about losing something or missing something, because I have it all documented.

And so that would be the thing that comes to mind for me, is just making sure that you know where your stuff is and what.

What it is.

Yes, I do the same, and I have artwork archives as well.

And thank you again for sponsoring cowgirl artists.

And I.

I find that that is very helpful.

Every so often, though, I do have to go and do a personal eyeball on where.

On where things are.

And I'm doing a website inventory right now because I'm going to do a Christmas sale, holiday Christmas sale.

And so I've got to put my eyeballs on exactly where that piece of work is, you know, in the house.

I mean, it's not that.

It's not that big a place, but, you know, things still get lost.

Yeah, I think that's.

That is a tricky thing, keeping track of everything.

And really, once you set those procedures down for your spreadsheet, it's a matter of, like, doing it the same way at the same time every time.

And I think for me, that's the thing I struggle with the most, you know, and so it's like, we've got to set those good procedures, and then we.

We have to follow them or our systems don't work, so.

Oh.

I was going to say, I used to think that marketing took a lot of my time, but keeping track of the inventory also keeps, you know, keeps me busy.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, Paige and Priscilla, thank you so much for sharing your stories and what you learned.

I think there's so much valuable insight that that's going to help some artists to not fall into the same trap as you.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cowgirl Artists of America's podcast.

You can follow us on Instagram @calgirlartistofamerica and find us online at calgirlartists of america.org.