Can you run a successful product business alongside your day job?

That’s exactly what engineer Maysun Hassanaly has done, developing and producing high quality and sustainable yoga gear at Ladina Yoga.

Maysu’s products are designed in collaboration with African artists, and also manufactured in Africa. Maysun shares how she came to start her business and why she operates her business the way she does. We discuss the challenges of launching and running a business alongside a high-tempo day job. 

If you are juggling a day job whilst also trying to build your own business, this is a brilliant episode as Maysun shares how the skills she has learned in one role transfer to the other, and that it is possible to do the two roles simultaneously.

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USEFUL RESOURCES:

Ladina Yoga

Ladina Yoga Instagram

Ladina Yoga Facebook

Maysun Hassanaly LinkedIn

The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron

Yoga with Adrienne

Bad Yogi

The Multi-Hyphen Method by Emma Gannon

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Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd

like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

Hello. So on this week's episode, I'm talking to Maysun

Hassanaly from Ladina Yoga. So Maysun and I had

a really interesting conversation. So Maysun helps people find

joy and grounding in their yoga practice with inclusive teaching and high quality,

sustainable yoga gear. So Maysun designs her

yoga product along with african artists, and all of her products

are manufactured in Africa as well. And

her story about how she came to start her business and

why she operates her business the way she does is really fascinating. We also talk

a lot about the fact that, that she launched and runs her business

alongside what was a full time job, and it's now a part time role.

She works in engineering in her day job, which is completely different from being

a yoga teacher, from running a products business. But she talks

about what she can learn from each and how each of the things that she

does can tie into the other, how some of the skills that she's learned

and utilizes are transferable. And overall, this was just a

really fascinating, interesting conversation. She was very

open about how she's chosen to run her

business and her life, why she is doing two things

simultaneously. And I was just fascinated and inspired by

her. And I cannot wait to introduce you.

So, hi, Maysun. Thank you so much for being here. Hi, Vicky. Thank you

for having me. Can we start with you? Please give an introduction to

yourself, your business, and what you sell. Yeah. So, my

name is Maysun Hassanali. I'm a yoga teacher and the founder of

Ladina Yoga. So Ladina Yoga is a sustainable yoga brand

aimed to empower everyone and mostly

also people of color. So I work with african artists to

create sustainable yoga accessories that bring

you joy. Thank you for that. And there is so much I want

to ask you around your business, but let's start right at the beginning. And can

you talk to us about how, why and when you began Ladina

yoga? I was reflecting on this the other day, and

it's actually a longer story, so I'm not sure you want to hear all of

it, but if we go back to the start, I was born in Madagascar in

a family of entrepreneurs. So everyone who's around me was always an

entrepreneur. And I remember, I always told my family, I don't want to be

one. I want to have a stable job. I want to enjoy what I do.

And I might not come back to Madagascar as well.

Anyway, fast forward when to study in London, and

I realized that always had something on the side. I was always

doing something different. I was always, for example, a university having a part

time job, or I was doing freelance translating. So I

always lacked that side learning piece.

At the end of my studies, I participated

into something called the startup weekend. So from Friday

night to Sunday, you get to meet a team in a location

and then build a startup. So essentially that's what I did. I met up with

a team. We created this thing called Kordaton, which was an online

platform for school teachers and students.

Amazing. Was great. But then after eight months, we realized, you

know, we're all students, we might want to go to do something different. So we

split. But that really got me into the entrepreneurship

world, and I loved it. Straight after that,

I began my engineering career, which I really, really loved. I was

working in future transport, so things like, you know, drones and

self driving cars, so things that do not even exist yet, and I loved

it. But 2019, I hit a point where I started reflecting

on what I really wanted to do. And then I came across this book

called the Artist Way, and it fascinated me

because it really helped me to reconnect with my

creativity, which I didn't have in my engineering career. So I kind of

forgot about everything, you know, drawing, writing, reading, all of

that. And it made me feel alive. And I started journaling. That's

when I realized that, okay, I need to take some time away. I

want to take a sabbatical. So 2020, I

take the sabbatical. Worst timing ever.

So we start in Madaskar in January. I'm practicing

yoga on a mat made of straw in Maddiescar.

And it was the most amazing feeling ever because I

felt so grounded to nature, so rooted,

and I felt connected to, you know, I felt connected to nature. I felt connected

to all of my malagasy indian cultures all

at the same time. And it made me reflect, okay, my yoga mat

in London is made of pvc. My yoga blocks are made of

foam. Everything else is made of plastic. Why is it

that, you know, everyone doesn't have that

connection to nature? It should be that way. It should be. Yoga is about

that. And then I think that's when the idea for Ladina

yoga came. Because in media Oscar, I grew up around so many,

you know, piece of art made of organic fibers and recycled

materials. So it was always like that. For me. And then turns

out that the month after I was supposed to go to India to get

my yoga training certification, came back to London.

COVID hit. So really the worst timing ever, because I was on a

sabbatical, no one would recruit, I couldn't go back to work. So

I started teaching yoga, and it was the best time ever because for a

year I taught yoga and I worked on Adina yoga in the background. And then

a year later, April 2021, Ladina Yoga was

born. Well, that's amazing. It was a long story in

the making, but I realized that all of these points actually led me to

that. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, and I

totally agree. I feel the same when I share my story, you feel like you

have to go so far back, but actually all of the pieces fit together.

They really do. And it's important to reflect and

be able to pinpoint those moments as well. Yeah, definitely.

And, yeah, thank you. I really love your story. And before we talk a little

bit more about what makes sort of ladina yoga different,

I'd love to know. So when you had the idea, what was

the. I know that obviously your products are, you designed them

manufactured in Madagascar. Was that the idea from the start

or did you just know you wanted to create products that were different, that

were more natural to what we traditionally to get on the market here?

I think the idea definitely evolved and it's okay

actually to evolve all the time. But yeah, the main

idea was create an eco friendly brand that

involved african art and that involved also different

materials that are widely used in the current yoga

world. I also work with

artists in Kenya, so definitely did not think about that

at first. I always thought, you know, I want to put a

light on malagasy artists. I did not really think about the rest

of Africa. That kind of like, just happened naturally.

But, yeah, it did. It did evolve with time. Also, as

I did a bit of more of a market research, see what kind of things

people are interested in. And weirdly, I

actually started launching yoga accessories

before yoga mat, which kind of is the opposite of what people do

in yoga brand, because usually people launch yoga mats,

which is the accessory that people use the most and the first thing that you

buy when you practice yoga. I started with a yoga bag. I started with

meditation christians because

I did not know how to make a yoga mat. So I started

with what I knew and the resources that were available around me,

but it did end up working. That's really good. And it makes sense

totally what you're saying about evolving and you were saying that you did market research

and you spoke to people. And I think that those are all really good reasons

to evolve and adapt from your original idea, because

I think often we have an idea, but it's just the

seed, it's the start, and then you need all that input to make it

what it is. Absolutely. And I think sometimes

deep down, you might know the ending

that you want, but you might not be able to articulate it. So maybe

all the work that you're doing for I don't know how many months or years,

and pivoting is actually leading you to that point that you already knew you

were going to get. You just didn't know how to envision it or articulate

that vision. Yeah, I feel a little bit like that. When you

shared your story about how you started up, actually, that's how that

story seems to me like it seemed like you were going to get there, you

were going to have your own business. It was just the steps in

between. Yeah, 100%. So let's

talk a little bit about your yoga products and what makes them different from others

on the market. Yeah. So one thing

to note is that all products are either designed or handmade by

african artists. So I also design some of the products,

but I collaborate with african artists to do that as

well. So I try to shine a light on, for example, our

meditation cushions, which are made of an organic fiber, which is what we call

Rafia. I unfortunately do not have one, like, right next to

me, otherwise I would have shown you one. So it's a very. It's

a traditional art that's existed for a really long time, and

that helps you create jobs in Madagascar. So I focus

on also paying the artist fairly

for their work. There was actually, I

think, a documentary or an article that came out, and you find

it again on the news article saying that a lot of african

artists were being paid really low for producing those

kind of exactly the same handmade raffia

material that companies like Maison du

Monde or Zara home were

exporting because they were paid really low

and they were selling them for a really cheap price. So that's definitely something I

do not want to do. It's beautiful art. It's precious art. It

comes with a story with a unique

perspective, and it has to be rewarded

fairly. Also, it's durable, so that definitely counts for

something. The other thing is, yes, on top of

raffia, we also use other eco friendly

materials. So our yoga mats are made of natural rubber. There's no

pvc, nothing toxic. Our

yoga bags and bolsters are made of organic

cotton, and then the bolsters are filled with uk

grown organic buckwheat tools. So I work with a

farm here which sends buckwheat holes, and then I manually,

like, fill the cushions, which can get really messy. And thank God I have a

good hoover. But, yeah, it's fun.

The other thing also is that we plant a mangrove

tree for every yoga mat sold, and we plant

that tree in Madagascar, because Madagascar is also the fourth most

deforested country in the world. People think that Madagascar

is this beautiful, exotic island, but there's a lot more than

that. You know, we have forest disappearing. The amount of

greenery that we had in the past is not there anymore. So definitely needs to

do something about that. And then lastly, I

think it's about the culture that I'm trying to promote at Ladina yoga. So aside

from sustainability, fair trade, working with african artists,

for me, it was really important to make yoga accessible

to others. So just coming from my own

experience, I started practicing yoga as a student when I was

1920. It's now been ten years or so,

and I really struggled. I really struggled at the beginning, I didn't feel like I

fit in. I didn't feel like the yoga world was for me. I

wasn't wearing all the big brands,

leggings, drinking that kale juice or bending

backwards. I couldn't do that. Also, I had an injury. I still have an injury

on my left arm, which meant that some poses will never be accessible to

me. And also, being a person of color in a

yoga class at that time, in 2010, there

was not that many. So it felt really clicky. Whereas,

you know, if I go to Madagascar today or even ten years ago, for

me, the concept of, you know, color wasn't even there

much because everyone was colorful.

So I wasn't really aware of that yoga world. So I definitely don't want

other people to feel like that. And I know it's an issue in the UK

of yoga being very clicky still, even today,

even though it's changing and it's better now. But I definitely wanted to

cultivate that culture of everyone is welcome, regardless of where you come

from, your background, your body, your race, your gender.

And, yeah, so I try to educate people

about what yoga is and what yoga can be and how you can

adapt it to your own needs, your own body, etcetera.

That's amazing. Thank you so much for explaining all of that. And so am I

right in thinking you're still teaching your yoga classes as well? I'm still teaching?

Yeah, not as often as before, sadly. But I still try to

teach as much as I can. So at the moment, I'm teaching once a week.

Yeah, I'm with you. I absolutely love yoga. And one of the things I

love about it now, and I've been practicing yoga, I'm older than you for, I

want to say, over 20. It is definitely over 20 years now. Amazing. And one

of the things I love is how flexible it is in terms

of you can do a practice that works for you

and it doesn't matter necessarily if you're looking the right shape

or. I have to say, I practice at home now because after

2020, you know, I got into the practice in a home and

I actually quite enjoy. Yeah. And I like the fact that I

can. You know, sometimes you might want to do yoga because you need

an energy boost, or sometimes you just might need to take it easy and

care for yourself. Or do you see? I like

it. It makes it way more accessible if you have, like, a home setup. And

to be honest, all you need is a mat, maybe a couple of blocks, and

you can use pillows instead of a bolster or even your carpet instead of a

mat. There's so many classes available online on YouTube

now for free as well, so it definitely makes it more

accessible. Whereas, like before, COVID online

yoga was a weird thing. It wasn't considered as

cool or comfortable. It was considered as a pain, actually. Nobody wanted

to do it. But I think having it online also breaks down some of

that clickiness you were talking about, that if you're wanting to try yoga, but maybe

you're a bit self conscious or you're not sure if it's,

you know, if it's for you, I think it. And even if. Or even if

you do like that aspect, although saying that, I suppose the downside to that is

you don't know. You know,

there's a danger that maybe you could maybe get injured because you're perhaps

not sort of aligned correctly or something. So I guess

there's pros and cons. Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's different

sides to it, because if you're a complete beginner and you've never done yoga before

and you try online, like anything, you might

hated all of it, right? And if you don't have a teacher

there to help you, make you feel safe, adjust you,

it can be a bit hard. And if you don't like it, then you might

give up for good and never come back to it just because of one bad

experience. And to be honest, that can happen in a studio as well,

in person. But I also think that online

yoga made it really accessible for anyone who wanted to

try yoga to have a glimpse of what it could be. For example, I don't

know if you know yoga with Adrienne, but that's what I do.

Exactly. So she's amazing. She's made those really accessible

30 day challenges that anyone can do at home.

And I myself, because my

practice was so on and off before I did my training, because I didn't

feel comfortable in yoga studio. So for like a year or two

before I went to India, I practiced at home. I

found this person called Erin Mods. So she

was leading. Her brand was called Bad Yogi, and I loved her

brand because it was all about being a bad yogi, so not fitting

into the mold. So I followed her program and it was

amazing because I could do everything from home. But then

I got to India and then I realized I didn't know half of the

things. I didn't really focus on the

poses or proper alignment. And until someone actually adjusted

me, I had no idea what the pose could look like or could feel

like. So I think it's two pieces of the coin. Right.

Obviously, like, you have to think about your comfort, your

safety, your needs, but maybe mixing it up

with an in person class as well. Yeah,

definitely. And I have to say, I practiced. I practiced

with teachers for a very long time before I switched to

at home practice because I've reached a level where I sort

of felt that comfortable. You could do it independently. Yeah.

But of course, I think when you start, that's different. But I still do like

to go to in person classes as well because there is something nice about being

in the room with. For people. There is? Yeah. It's a good energy and

it feels like being part of something together as well.

Yeah. Let's talk a bit more about your products, if

that's okay. And I would love to talk a little bit about the logistics

of how you design and create and

manufacture and ship your products because as you mentioned, some of your

products, you know, you're designing here in the UK, and then you have artists in

Madagascar, in Kenya, and then there's the

manufacturing. And how are you managing that? Because

logistically, that feels. It feels difficult.

Honestly. It is really difficult. It is really tough. And I did not think about

that when I launched the company.

So some of the designs are made

by me, some of the design made by african artists.

So whenever I would make a design, I would then, you

know, send it to my artists in Madagascar, to maybe

replicate it. If it's like meditation cushions, for example,

if it's like a yoga mat, it would be either me or, again,

african artist. So a lot happens, you know,

online in Africa, Facebook is widely used. Everyone

has Facebook rather than WhatsApp. So that's how

we communicate with people. Another thing is

things in Africa are, like, much slower than in the

UK. You know, in the UK, I'm used to, you know, grab a cab, order,

deliver, and then speed, speed, speed. Everything is organized,

you know, what you're expecting. Whereas, for example, in

Madagascar, our motto is muramura, which means

slowly, slowly. So just thinking that

in mind, you know, it's a bit more chilled,

which means that I have to take into account, you know, if I want to

plan a product launch, I would

probably add one or two more months than I had originally, originally planned, because

anything can go wrong. And when you think about, you know, the time it takes

to prototype, test the product,

ship it, prepare the packaging, do the photoshoot, and then launch,

I think it can take a good three to four months,

and that's usually at the start. So if I'm making a

new product, for example, if I'm making a new meditation cushion,

that's how long it would take. But then once I know my supplier, once I

know the artist I'm working with, once we have a good relationship, then

it becomes a little bit more efficient. That process can

be shortened down a little bit, but obviously,

shipping still takes time, for example.

So it really depends. But, yeah, it's not, it's really not

easy. And I remember at first,

I used to bring the products in my

suitcase from Madagascar to London, and I used to

store them at home because I didn't have a storage room. I didn't have enough

clients anyway, enough customers. Now, as we grew,

you know, I worked with a shipping company in Madagascar that,

with whom, like, I have good deals now because of

regular shipment as well. And I now got a storage

room down the road from, from where I live, which is really, really handy.

But, yeah, I think when

you're local to Africa or Madagascar, it definitely helps

because you get the people to trust you,

you get to talk to people, and it's really important about being

hands on. It's not like in Europe or in the UK,

where you can contact a supplier online, order

online, they get the sample delivered to you.

And I feel like at least in, you have to

meet the person face to face, you have to go to the

market, you have to explore different options, you have to negotiate,

you have to have that conversation, get to know more about them,

which is a completely different culture, a completely different process. And

that whole thing takes more time.

But it's worth it. It's worth it because at the end of the day, I

know that the people that I work with

really put a lot of

talent. They bring their uniqueness, they bring their

own perspective, motivation. They can give me ideas as

well and they really want to do it, they really want to be part of

it. And I know that I'm

helping them, too. So it's like, yeah, it's

teaming up with people who want you to succeed and at the same

time, I want them to succeed as well. So I think that's what makes

the best partnership in making them understand

how is a product going to be used? Because yoga in Madagascar or in Africa

is not that widely practiced. So I remember the first

time I asked for a prototype

of a meditation cushion and a bolster with a yoga bolster, which is

a long pillow. But I remember

the woman I was working with, my first artist, she had no idea how it

would be used. So, you know, the design

might come with like a different handle that I wanted or a different

zip. And I was like, no, actually this is going to be used, you know,

to unzip the lining and this is how it's going to be filled. And she

was like, okay, well, you need a bigger zip then, or you need like a

stronger handle. So, yeah. And in those cases,

you need to be face to face, I think so. Luckily,

I get to visit my family once or twice in Madagascar, which means I get

to meet my team in person. So at the beginning I needed to stay for

quite a while to be there, look at the prototypes, and then with

time, I can handle those relationships online.

And then every time I travel to. Madagascar, it sounds

like the relationships are so important. They really are.

I think, you know, everyone is busy,

so if you don't keep with those relationships, if

you don't entertain those relationships and, you know, ask,

it's just like it's having a team, you know, you ask about their lives, you

ask about what's going on, how can I help you? What do you need,

what's working, what's not working, how do you enjoy that? Do you think

we can do this differently? And

there's definitely an element of trust because not being in the

same physical location as your team involves a lot of trust,

involves a lot of, okay, well, who's going to do my quality control?

Do I need to wait until I go to Malaysia to do my quality control,

or am I trusting that I have that process set up before?

So, yeah, definitely, definitely need to entertain

those relationships and a lot of care and trust

as well. Thank you. Thank you for explaining

that. I think relationships are always important, but I guess because

you're different, countries different, I think it's slightly different time

zones that I can see that, yeah, there's

even more of a need than if you're working with someone in the UK just

up the road, for example, because there's a lot more that. I think

there's a lot of benefits, but also there's probably a lot more potential for things

to go wrong. I'm not saying things do, but I. Can see that there's,

yeah, 100%. Also,

nobody knows your products the way you do. Nobody

has that vision in their mind the way you do. So it's important to

be as articulate and as specific as

possible. And I think also that's

how my job in engineering really helps, because

it helped me to really write down the

requirements. So what does my product look like? What does it need to

have? How big is the handle supposed to be?

How much buckwheat wool is supposed to

fit? How does the inner lining fit into

the COVID How big do I need to make that inner lining for the

COVID to fit? How tough the zip needs

to be? How do I measure and test that? So I think,

yeah, there's definitely. It's good to see that correlation

between my engineering job and my business

and how it helps me as well. I definitely didn't

realize that before, as. You said, that I've realized what an advantage

that is because I've worked. I used to have my own brand

of products, and one of the things I found really, really key

was giving such a tight specification that was so

specific that there wasn't room, because I worked with an overseas supplier

as well, and I found that the more specific I could be,

the better the outcome. But I think not

having that engineering background, there were definitely things that I missed that I'm sure

that the specifications and what you're coming up with, I'm sure

are so specific. But that's extremely helpful for everyone because

everyone you're working with wants to do a good job and they want to

produce what you want. So I think you're definitely helping everyone by

being very precise in terms of what your product's made,

of, how it's constructed. Yeah, it really helps. And I think even

in the future, hopefully, if and when I have a team,

it'd be good to already have those processes in place and those

product requirements and everything

explained or mapped down somewhere so that it's really easy to

anyone to onboard and say, oh, okay, that's how this is made. That's how we're

going to continue doing that. Oh, that's how we can modify this.

And I am the kind of person who has a lot of ideas

at the same time, but I also love to map them,

which is good and bad, because I love taking the time to map

ideas. Maybe too much time. But I know that in the long term,

if I ever need to reflect on something, I know where that's stored, I

know where to find it, I know how I can modify it and how to

link it to something else. So that's always really handy. Sometimes it

takes time to implement those processes, but

it really helps for the long term as well. And also, like,

when it comes to explaining a product, having a sketch or

a picture to show your team is always

helpful. Yeah, absolutely. And so

you mentioned that you still have your engineering role. Talk

to us a bit about how you're growing your business

alongside your full time engineering role as well.

It's really tough. It's really tough. It's been, well, three years

now. Let me know. You guys going to turn three? So after that year of

COVID teaching yoga, working on the brand, I went

back into engineering in 2021.

And the first year was really tough because I

was back into engineering. I was working on my brand. I launched a

brand and I burned out. I

burnt out. I was spending too much time on the screen. I wasn't

taking care of myself. I was still teaching yoga four or five times a

week. So I was doing three jobs at the same time. And it's, you know,

it's really ironic coming from a yoga teacher to not

take some rest. But, yeah, it's still a business.

And that really taught me to break down

my goals into micro level so that

those big goals will become easier. So

now I have, like,

my big plan. So I plan my goals in quarters, and then I break those

goals into, okay, what's my goals for the month? What's my goals for the week?

And then every week I would reflect on my goal. Every day I would

have a plan. And then sometimes I like to not follow the plan

because if it's too strict, if it's too mapped, if it's too

scheduled, then it kind of takes the funnel out of it. So on

some days, I like to be like, you know what, I don't care. I know

roughly what I need to do anyway. And I would just focus on

what I enjoy doing right now because I want to maintain that

notion of fun. And then when it comes to my full time

job, it's actually a little bit easier this year because I've gone down

to part time, which gives me a lot more time to work on laden and

yoga. But the first two years, yeah, they were really hard. And then

I remember a friend told me, because I was complaining

about sales being slow in the first year, and I thought that I would just

have to launch the website, sit back, and that orders would come in

and I had no idea what I needed to do. I didn't know about

going to markets, I didn't know about wholesale pr.

I just thought, oh, people will notice and people will contact me and it

would just fall from the sky. And then this friend

told me, take 2 hours, 2

hours every day, put them in your calendar, make sure that

you do those 2 hours every day. If you can do more, great, just take

time for yourself as well. But as long as you do 2 hours, you should

see an improvement, you should see things happening.

And that really stuck. And then from 2

hours it went to 3 hours or working weekends, but I

just maintained the consistency. And yeah,

some weekends I do not work, or some evenings I do not work because I

do not feel like it. I don't want to force myself, but I know that

the next day I will come back to it, I will be efficient and I

will get things done. So I think it's about having that balance

of what do I need to do, what do I feel like, what's

priority as well. So, yeah, I realized it's about consistency, it's

about working with your energy. So really

respecting your energy and your mood, your energy

level, there will always be priority.

It has to be done. So unfortunately, being

a solo founder means that sometimes you have to

prioritize those, you have to respond to an email, sometimes

when you feel a bit low or when you feel a bit sick.

And I think now that I'm part time, that's

much easier. But I know that the first two years it really wasn't. And I

also had to give up teaching yoga because of that, because I couldn't do

everything. And I think another aspect of

that is the ego. I

definitely, it was hard to admit

that I couldn't do everything because I love doing a lot of things at the

same time and I love thinking that I can, but actually I can't.

And that realization for me was tough,

but also powerful, because it helped me to focus so

on. Now I'm back to teaching yoga, but I'm back to teaching once a week,

and I know I can do that because I'm now part time with my work.

So I had to really rethink about my priorities.

The other thing about having a full time job, and I was reflecting that the

other day, is I always thought that the

aim was to grow my business enough so that

I could quit my full time job. But recently I've been thinking,

now that I'm part time, I'm really enjoying my engineering

job. And I equally love Ladina yoga.

I love being able to use my creative side of my brain and the

logical side of my brain, and I don't know if I will

stop working in engineering because I also love it so much

and because it teaches me so many skills. I can also apply at Medina

yoga. And this can be controversial, right? Because

all the advice that you hear, you know, on TikTok or on

YouTube, is this is what you need to do to quit your nine to five.

And I've thought about that for a long time, but now I'm thinking,

well, I enjoy my nine to five. I enjoy my half, half of

my nine to five when I have it, because I know it's temporary, as

in it's part time. I know I'm enjoying the people I work with.

I know that I enjoy coming up with solutions, contributing to society,

contributing to the future in engineering.

And it also helps me to speak to

customers at Ladina Yoga. It helps me to know how to pitch

a project or a proposal. It helps me to think logically, it helps

me to, you know,

there's a lot of transferable skills. Managing people, for

example, is one of them. And I feel like in my business,

because it's so close to my identity, to my

ego, because Ladina yoga is part of my

cultures, it's, you know, it's mediocre as well. So it's a lot by my

identity, it's my baby, which means that sometimes I can think about it in a

very emotional way. But my full time

job, my part time job, now, engineering side has taught me

to also detach and

look at it from a logical way, take logical decisions, not

just emotional decisions, which is still something

that I'm trying to find my balance with.

But yes, it's an interesting evolution, because I

didn't think I would ever say, well, I want to keep working in

engineering. I think it's really good to hear you say that,

because you're right. A lot of people start up

product businesses alongside a full time job or a part time job

with the goal being one day that's their full time income.

And I don't hear many people say, do you know what? I don't think I

want that, actually. I think I want to do both of these things. And I

think that's a really positive thing because

you're making the decision that works for you rather than just going with

what, I don't know. The Internet tells us we should be aspiring

for, and if you're enjoying both and they're fulfilling and

why not? I actually think it's. I actually think

that maybe things are changing a bit. When I used to, when I started this

podcast, sometimes I would speak to people who would be running a business

alongside their job, but often that was

something they didn't want to talk about. They wanted to give the

impression, perhaps, that the business was their full

time. They weren't comfortable with talking about, actually, I do this and I do

this, but I've definitely noticed in the last couple of years more people

saying, actually, I do this, but I'm also a teacher, or I do

this, but I also have a corporate role. And I think the more that

we talk about it, it's really helpful because it lets people see that actually, you

don't have to aspire to be something because you think you have to be

it. You can create the business and the

life that works for you. Yeah, I 100% agree with

that. And I think it shows people all the

different ways you can create a business as well and all the different

faces of life. I think people hesitate or

business owners hesitate to talk about it because it might make their

community feel like they're not 100% involved or

100% focused. And that's definitely something

that I feared as well. But I talk

about it a little bit more now because I know that my

job as in engineering also influences the amount of

time that I can give to my business or show up on my instagram stories,

for example, which I really struggle with.

But, yes, I think people appreciate when you show

them the fool you. So being authentic as

possible, being as honest as possible, is so important. Like,

for example, I know that there's been

brands that I admired, and I always thought, how do they do this?

How are they so good at it? And it's

only after they gave an interview or went to a podcast or

posted something on social media that I realized, oh, my God, okay.

They also, you know, work a full time job at the same time. And

that reframes the whole story in my mind, because you actually

never know what someone is going through, what someone is doing in the background. You

know, maybe they're having some personal issues. When someone has a business,

it's not just 100% because we still

have life going on, we still have other things going on.

So, yeah, I think it's. It's hard to understand

the full scope of that. So being

transparent, I'm not saying, you know, tell your whole life to

people, but being a little bit more transparent about what you

do can help with

your interaction with your community.

Absolutely. And I think, as you said, it's whatever it is

that you're doing. So I give it. To give an example, I

work around my children because I have two school aged children. They're still quite

young. And for a long time, I didn't say to people, oh, I can't do

calls at 04:00 because we have swimming lessons, or, I can't do this because I

have school pickup. I used to say I'm not available,

but I didn't used to say why? Because like you said, I used to

think people will think I'm not committed to this. But now

I've got to the point where I think, and I think this not just about

myself, but about any small business owner, that if you're running your business

alongside a job, a family, whatever your brother commitments

are, if anything, you're more passionate because presumably you

don't have to be doing both, especially if you have a full time

role, you have your income, you don't have to be choosing to do something else

on the side. You're doing that because you want to. So for me, I think

it actually shows, yeah, that person is very committed because

they're making the choice to add something, which arguably

takes up more time, maybe gives you more stress. So I actually think

it's a real positive. That's a good point, actually. I did not

think about that. But I can relate to

your story about not telling people that you had to

pick up your kids and live early.

Not similarly, but maybe in the other way. I

did struggle at the beginning when I came back into engineering after

teaching yoga. After my sabbatical, I struggled to tell people at work

that I was a yoga teacher and that I took a sabbatical. Even though sabbaticals

are very accepted nowadays, it's very normal. So many people take a

sabbatical, but I struggled to tell people that I was teaching yoga for a

year. And because it had nothing to do with engineering,

and when I finally did, someone in my team told me, well,

we're looking for a well being lead. Do you want to be the well being

lead? And I thought, oh, my God, I never thought people

would think about that or, you know, accept me like that, in a

way. And then I led the

wellbeing initiatives for a year. So I started implementing yoga and

meditation sessions, and people were totally open to

it. And again, it had nothing to do with engineering, and I made that story

in my head myself. But, yeah, sometimes

we don't know how people are going to react, but maybe, what if we

tried? Yeah, you're right. And I think often

people can surprise you. And it's funny, the opportunities that can come just

by people finding out something about you that

maybe they didn't know. And I've certainly had that in life

before where I've been talking to someone, and then you have this realization, oh, you

do this. I had no idea you taught yoga, or you or

whatever the thing is. And I think that's it's just so nice to learn

about people. And I think in general, people are really open to finding

out more about us. Yeah. You know,

there's a great book about it, which is called the multi hyphen

method by Emma Ganon. That's

a book that I read, actually, around the time

I took my sabbatical, just before that. That really taught me that it's

okay to do multiple things. So that's what the

author calls being a multi hyphen. So you can be, for

example, a doctor and a photographer or

an engineer and a yoga teacher. Like, there's so many examples like that nowadays.

But I think getting to the point where you accept that

it's okay and it's fine to have different

hobbies or different income streams or different, you know,

businesses or whatever that have nothing to do with one another, that's

when you start liberating yourself from,

I don't know, I guess. I guess, like, your beliefs or what you

thought in your mind was true. Yeah. I'm going to take a look at that

book because that sounds really interesting. And I. I can. I really

like that. I mean, I feel like it's something that maybe. So when

you talk to a child, I know when I talk to my children, my daughter

will say, oh, I'm going to be this and this, you know, I'm going to

be a pop star and a teacher, and I'm going to have a cafe. You

know, you know, all of the things. But I think

when you get to, I think that kind of gets drummed out of us as

we get older. When we're little, we think we can do anything and be anything,

and then somehow I think we lose that. So

I think it's good to embrace everything

it is. And there's so much to discover in life as well.

So it would be sad just to focus

on one thing. Or maybe if you are so passionate about it, then,

yeah, yeah. Amazing. Go for it. Do that single thing for your whole

life and become an expert. That's also amazing, I guess.

Yeah. I guess it means also that

it's harder to be an expert on something if

you end up doing those multi hyphens and a lot of

them in your lifetime. I think so, too. But I think it's

nice to think that to have the freedom where you have the freedom, because not

everyone does, but if you do, to have the freedom to choose to say,

I'm going to do this, and this is going to be my career and my

life and my vacation, or to say, actually, I'm going to try lots of different

things, whether that's different roles or different

country, whatever it is, I think that it's

nice if you are able to. To be able to decide, okay, this is

what works for me. And to do that.

Yeah. And I think that's why having role models or

people to look to really helps. Because often

until someone hasn't done it before you, you might not do it.

Because we have a tendency as humans to compare ourselves or look up to

others, which can be good or bad, I guess, because others can be a source

of inspiration. So, you know, sometimes in those cases, it's good.

But, yeah, even in engineering, for example,

I didn't know anyone who was an engineer before I went into it, and I

still did because I flipped a coin, actually. So that was not

even. That was not even planned. But that's

another. That's another topic. But, yeah, having role

models, people to look up to, people who've done similar things that you would like

to do, and then maybe meeting those people or contacting those people, asking them to

become your mentor or asking them for advices that can

always make you more

inspired or motivate you to go down that route as well.

Yeah, that's really good advice. Thank you. And thank you for talking about

all of this because I think, like you say, it really helps to be very.

To be open because it will inspire people. And I

don't know if you found when you started in engineering, I know that for a

long time there weren't many. And I'm assuming there still aren't as many women as

men in engineering. Am I correct in that assumption? You're very correct.

So I think even that, you know, you will be, you know, there will

be women and girls who see you as a role model because you're women in

engineering. And then I think to talk about, as well as being your

engineering role, also teaching yoga. So something completely different.

I think it just helps people see what the possibilities

are. 100%. Yeah, it's funny, actually, because I just

realized in engineering or stem,

there is a lack of women, and then in

yoga, it's actually the opposite. There's a lot more women than

men. And so it's interesting to be part of those two

different industries, not just because of the type of activity, but also

the type of people you meet. So,

for example, in engineering, yes, you'll be more male dominated and

more, you know,

logical. Mathematic people have like

a mathematic, mathematic mind, mathematical mind. Sorry,

not sure if I'm pronouncing that well. And then in yoga, you would have people

who are more focused on self care, being

yourself, self improvement, which are

two different areas, but also so

interesting. So it's really nice to be able to be part of those two

different communities in a way, because

they're both interesting. Yeah, I can definitely

see that. Well, thank you. And thank you for talking about all of this.

Now, I've got one final question before we finish, if that's okay. And

obviously you shared so much with us, but so,

last one, it might be a tough one. What was your number one piece of

advice? Be for other product creators?

I actually have a lot of advice, but if I have to

tailor it down to one, I would say,

don't hesitate to ask for the help

I did for a long time because I thought I could learn everything by

myself. I don't need anyone to help me. I'm the founder.

I can do this. And again, that was my ego and that was my

pride coming into it. And that actually

would slow me down from making progress because

I can't learn everything by myself. So if you can

ask for help, do that training,

message that person, ask that mentor to mentor

you, and that's going to speed

up your business so much

more than, you know, thinking you can learn it by yourself. There might be

small things that you can learn by yourself, but when it's something that, for

example, really scares you or make you feel

like you're making too slow of a progress, then maybe it's

time to ask for the help. Yeah, I think

that would be my biggest advice. That's really good. Thank you.

And I think, yeah, asking for help and asking for advice as well, because I

think, like you say, you don't have to pick everything out yourself. There's

so many resources out there and so many people I think are willing to help.

You were talking earlier about if someone inspires you, someone who's maybe had

a similar path, maybe they meant to you. And I think a lot of people,

obviously time is a factor, but I think most people are happy

to help, to give advice and to do what they can.

I think so, yeah. Because helping people also makes you feel good

about yourself. And we often think

that I'm not going to bother them or they might

be too busy, but actually the response might be completely

different and they might be so open to helping you, they just need

another email chaser. That's it. Because they were busy and then your email got

lost or your message got lost in their inbox.

So, yeah, chasing people is also really

important. Yeah. And I think in life it's always just

good to ask because I think the worst you can get is a no. And

I mean, even coming back to this podcast, I think you reached out to me

and said, I'd love to be on your podcast. And I said, yes. And

I actually, I actually really like it when people ask.

The worst I'm ever going to say is no, you're not a good fit. But

actually, it's nice to be asked. It's, you

know, it works both ways. I think it's quite flattering when

someone asks, you know, kind of, could I ask your advice or

can I come on your podcast or could you help me with something? Because,

yeah, I think that a lot of us are maybe hesitant, but I think

people in general like to be asked for help as well. So I think

it works both ways. Yeah, I think it shows,

it shows interest and it shows respect as well.

And the fact that that person, you know, put their,

again, I'm going to come back to it, ego and pride aside, and said, you

know what, I'm just going to reach out to them. I'm going to wait for

them to reach out to me. So it means that I

think everybody's back to our previous conversation, that they're dedicated. They

want to make the first step and go for

it. Yeah. And also coming back to something you were talking

about earlier, connection. And so relationships is so important. And

it's really nice to have a relationship with someone to reach out and connect

with you. I think these are all things that benefit everyone.

Yeah, no, 100%, I think. Yeah. Like

yoga as well. It's all part of building a community,

I think. I didn't realize that as well when I launched the brand. I didn't

realize how much work it would take

to find, well, first tailor down

to my LDL market, but then, like, find the people

who would ideally be part of that community and

then connect, keep connecting with that community. Because I think

the world that we live in nowadays, people like to feel

part of something. People like to belong. There's so much, there's

so many things out there, and there's also so much loneliness

that people value trust, they value

connection, they value community. And it's

also, I think, very innate. As human beings, we like

connections. We need connections, and we thrive on it.

Oh, thank you so much, Maysun, thank you so much for everything that you've shared.

Thanks so much for having me, Vicky. It's been such a great conversation. I really

had a good time, and me too. Thank you so much. Thanks. Have a lovely

day. Thank you so much for listening. Right to the

end of this episode, do remember that you can get the fullback catalogue and lots

of free resources on my website, vickiwineberg.com. Please do

remember to rate and review this episode if you've you enjoyed it and also

share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again

and see you next week.