Kevin Schaefer and Evan Garcia dive into the latest pop culture gems, kicking things off with a deep dive into the gritty world of Spider Noir, featuring none other than Nicolas Cage. The duo explores the series' unique blend of classic film noir aesthetics and superhero antics, which has fans buzzing about its fresh take on familiar characters. But that's not all—they also tackle two indie horror flicks, "Obsession" and "Backrooms," that are making waves in the film scene. With themes ranging from the consequences of wishes gone awry to the eerie exploration of liminal spaces, they navigate the complex narratives and psychological elements of these films. Tune in as they share their thoughts, crack some jokes, and remind listeners that even in the darkest tales, there's always room for a bit of light-hearted banter.

Diving deep into the world of indie horror and pop culture, the latest episode of Systematic Geekology brings a blend of engaging discussions and witty banter between hosts Kevin and Evan. They kick things off by pondering a whimsical question: if granted a wish stick, would one summon Nicolas Cage to join the MCU? This playful introduction sets the tone for an episode packed with reflections on two indie horror films, 'Obsession' and 'Backrooms,' alongside the intriguing new Spider Noir series starring Cage. As they navigate through these topics, Kevin introduces the films, first highlighting 'Obsession,' a gripping narrative that explores the consequences of a wish gone awry. The film's protagonist, Bear, makes a reckless wish for his crush, Nikki, to love him more than anyone else, leading to a descent into chaos as Nikki becomes obsessively fixated on him, losing her true self in the process. The hosts delve into the film’s themes of toxic masculinity and the psychological horror that ensues, giving listeners a rich analysis of the narrative's complexity and character dynamics.

Transitioning to the Spider Noir series, Kevin and Evan share their excitement over Cage's portrayal of Ben Reilly, a detective in a 1930s New York filled with film noir aesthetics. They marvel at the unique blend of superhero elements and classic noir tropes, discussing the show's ability to balance humor and drama while keeping audiences on the edge of their seats. The discussion flows seamlessly, with Evan passionately detailing the show’s character arcs and the clever writing that elevates it from standard superhero fare. As the episode progresses, the duo invites listener engagement, encouraging them to join the conversation live on YouTube, adding a community feel to their geeky discourse.

In a twist of darker themes, the hosts then tackle 'Backrooms,' a film that weaves a tale of psychological horror rooted in liminal spaces and urban exploration. Kevin and Evan dissect the film's narrative structure, noting its distinct shift from omniscient storytelling to found footage style, which enhances the unsettling atmosphere. They appreciate the film's exploration of mental health, likening it to a modern cautionary tale about the consequences of unresolved psychological struggles. As the episode winds down, the hosts reflect on the impact of indie films in today's cinematic landscape, celebrating their ability to push boundaries and offer fresh perspectives amidst a sea of mainstream content. This episode is a delightful mix of humor, insight, and thoughtful critique, making it a must-listen for fans of horror and pop culture alike.

Takeaways:

• The lively discussion between Kevin and Evan dives deep into the unique elements of the new Spider Noir series starring Nick Cage, showcasing how this character adds a fresh take to the superhero genre.
• The podcast highlights how indie horror films like Obsession and Backrooms are not just entertainment but also serve as allegories for mental health, showcasing the blend of serious themes with popular culture.
• Listeners are treated to insights on how the character of Bear in Obsession encapsulates toxic masculinity and the consequences of unexpressed feelings, creating a thought-provoking narrative that resonates with many.
• Kevin and Evan emphasize the importance of storytelling in horror, noting how both films utilize psychological elements to address deeper human experiences, making them more than just conventional scares.
• The hosts reflect on the cultural impact of indie films beating out major blockbusters like Star Wars, pointing to a shift in audience preferences towards more original, thought-provoking content.
• Lastly, the episode wraps up with a call for viewers to engage with these films, highlighting the need for fresh voices in storytelling, particularly in the horror genre, which has evolved considerably.

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Foreign. What would you do with a wish stick that could grant you anything you desired? And would you wish for Nick Cage to join the mcu?

Welcome to Systematic Ecology.

We are the priest of the geeks and we are here for another episode of what's News, where we talk about all the latest things in pop culture and geek culture.

And as we alluded to in the intro, we're going to be talking about some very big indie horror movies, as well as a new Spider man show with Nicolas Cage. So I'm very excited to talk about all of this. I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schafer, and I am joined by fellow geekologist Evan Garcia.

Evan, how are you tonight?

Hey, Kevin, how are you? I'm doing good. This should be fun. Excited for tonight, dude?

I'm excited. We are very excited. And if you're watching live on YouTube, hey, welcome.

And if you're, if this is your first time joining Systematic Ecology, hey, super shout out to you. We are really glad you're here. And yeah, for tonight, we're going to be talking about two new indie horror films, Obsession and Backrooms.

And then we're also taking a look at the new Spider Noir series on Amazon prime. And we'll also talk about some other shows and movies that we've been geeking out on.

And so if you're live right now, hey, give us a shout out, tell us where you're listening from and we will announce it on the show. So we really appreciate it.

And hey, I know every podcast says it, but hey, rate and review our show wherever you get the chance, whenever you get the chance, whether you're listening later on Spotify or Apple, wherever your podcast, or if you're watching here on YouTube and if you like this video, if we get 50 likes, we will have Will Rose, one of our regular hosts, is on sabbatical right now, but when he returns, he will possibly dress up as one of the Hutts from Star wars. And who doesn't want to see that? So if you want to do, if you want to see him do something weird and geeky like this video.

And if you don't know Will, Will is one of our wonderful hosts and you will appreciate his presence when the show. So you know. Exactly, exactly. And I also want to thank one of our financial supporters here on our Patreon, Jonathan Augustine.

Thank you so much for your support. We really appreciate it.

And if you want a shout out on the show and you want to become one of our supporters, you can just click on the link in the show. Notes and it'll show you how to become a supporter on our fourth wall site. And you can also learn how to get merchandise free extra content.

So a lot of good rewards for you there. So check us out. We really appreciate it. Awesome. Well, Evan, before we get to our main topics tonight, let's first get around to a lightning round.

This is where we're gonna just hit on some of the other things we've been geeking out on lately, aside from our main topic. So, Evan, do you have anything you want to shout out?

Not off top of my head. I saw some interesting YouTube videos and stuff like that, but I. I've been so busy with the end of school year and stuff.

So Jose was hanging out with the kids.

Yeah.

And, and, and, and watching these movies. So.

Yeah, dude, there's been a lot. And like, my sister is an elementary school teacher and she described like, there. She did. She described her students as feral. Right now they.

I believe it.

They still. Dude, every other county is out right now and they're still going to like, June 10th or something. It's crazy. But. Yeah, but. Well, no worries.

But one show I really do want to shout out that I'm gonna need to do a full episode on because it's that good. And like, I want to see. I think you would love it. And I want to see who else can from the pod can watch it so we can talk about it more in depth.

But Widows Bay on Apple tv. Oh, dude, I, like, I wish I had jumped on it sooner.

I only binged it, like, this weekend, and then I just watched the most recent episode, but oh, my gosh, it's phenomenal. So I can give just the brief overview.

This is a series created by Katie Dippold, who was a writer on Parks and Rec, and she's written some other, like, Paul Fee comedies. But the series very inspired by Stephen King or Mike Flanagan's Midnight Mass.

But it's about this small island town called Widow's Bay off the coast of Massachusetts. And all this weird stuff has been happening in the town for literally centuries.

And the people there have, you know, extreme superstitions about how, you know, you're not supposed to leave the island and it's cursed. And there's a fusion of comedy and horror that I really love about the show.

And the other thing that I really like about it, too, is that it's kind of a perfect marriage between episodic storytelling and serialized storytelling. So while it does tell this overarching narrative of the central character is the mayor of the town who is still much like the mayor in Jaws.

He wants to keep tourism open and he knows that there's weird stuff happening going on in the town, but at the same time he's trying to keep it alive and he wants people coming in and he doesn't want them to be scared away by all the old wives tales and everything. But at the same time, he keeps his son from ever leaving the island. So, like, he knows that the curse exists and he's trying to find that balance.

And so that's sort of the overarching narrative. But like, each episode does this really cool, like, different horror elements. Like, the first one deals with this mysterious fog. There is a.

There's an episode where a party goes terribly wrong and it evokes like an Evil Dead type thing. The episode that just dropped today that I just watched, it was like, yeah, it was a riff today. It was a riff on Michael Myers. And so, yeah, dude.

Dude, it's so. And it's great. It's just like. I mean, it's a, again, perfect vision of comedy and horror.

Each episode kind of feels like a Stephen King short story, but then there is the overarching narrative to it. So I, I cannot recommend it enough. Also, Steven Root is one of the main actors who might be one of my favorite actors of all time.

Like, he was Milton in the Office Space.

No, really?

Did you watch Barry?

He wasn't very.

Yeah, the. His main. Barry's main, like, like employer. When he went like. I don't remember the older dude.

Yeah, all right.

Yeah, yeah. Steven. Steve. Steven Rood is really one of the great character actors. Like you probably.

I mean, if you look up his IMDb he has like 300 credits because he's a ton of voice acting as well. And he's in a lot of like, cult films and stuff like that. But, but, and he can really transform himself.

But he plays like one of the longtime islanders who is very much like warning the mayor about all the weird stuff going on. So, yeah, it's fit to play. Widow's faith Cannot recommend enough. I'm, I, I'm gonna. Again, I'm gonna need to do a full episode on it.

I think you would love it. I like, I'm kind of Christian, definitely. I think Jill, definitely. Like, we gotta get that like, once the season ends.

Right on. Right on, man. Good.

Awesome. Well, Evan, I know there is a lot of big topics to talk about tonight, so let's start with our first one, which is Nick Cage spider noir series.

I just, I can. I Just say, I love that this exists.

I mean, can you believe we're in a world where Nick, not only is Nicholas Cage in a TV show, which is a big deal, which we have to talk about, but also that they made a live action action series of spider.

We are, we are so spoiled. This is insanity. And it's perfect. It's just what I thought it would be.

It really is.

I mean, I, you know, I of course loved the character in the Spider Verse films and you know, and really all of the supporting spider player, like spider noir, Spider ham, Spider punk, like I was like, I want to see more of all these, whether they do an animated spin off or something like this. And this was actually like the perfect way to expand on this character. So, Evan, do you want to.

Because I know now I am, I have not quite finished the series. I'm, I've watched five out of the eight episodes.

But like you said, there's been a lot coming out lately and I've, I also kind of like the more weekly release format this was. They dropped the whole season, so I haven't had time to finish it yet.

But you want to give viewers and listeners a brief overview of what this series is and what it's about.

It is a, it's a, It's a Spider man flick where the lead Spider man is called Ben Reilly. He's a detective in what seems like a different universe. I think they, they set that up and they kind of allude to different universes, I think.

And the first thing that I think that you will notice when you watch it, it's, it's, it's basically Dick Tracy and I just don't know how else to do it. It's with the, it's the cars, the costume, the accents, the hats, the, the lighting, the film noir ness of it. It's very film noir.

There's, there's a black and white version and there's a full color version and so. And it's a pretty cool feature. You can swap between them and stuff like that. It's pretty cool. But he's a private eye.

He.

He has an assistant and she does all the paperwork. But he very, he's very cynical, he's very nihilistic at this point. He has a past where his.

I don't think they were married, but a love interest died and he's and he's been sent down a hole of despair and he has not been able to get out of it since then. So they take some odd jobs and to one thing leads to another. And we have a crime boss in the version of a Silvermane.

He's played by Brendan Gleason, fantastically played by him. And he's kind of like a kingpin light. He's not kind of overpowering, but he has the same presence. And there's.

And then there's a news reporter, there's a subplot. And he's a supporting character played by Lamorne Williams. I think. Yes, he plays one of the best. So.

Well, the supporting cast in this show is brilliant. They all have their own characteristics and they all upbringing. They wait to the character. And. And. And that's pretty much it, I think.

And yeah, we can go from there.

No, great summary. And it is. It's very. It's Dick Tracy, it's Sam Spade.

And you know, more and more it was perfect to cast him as Robbie Robertson because like, that's one of my favorite characters in the 90s Spider man cartoon. But the way they incorporate him here, it fits so perfectly. Like, I. I love how they play with all of the archetypes. Film noir. Yeah.

And it's just, you know, and. Because that was the only. Like when I first started the show, I mean, I was enjoying it from the get go, but I was like, you know, for.

With the pilot, I was like, okay, this is cool. But how are they gonna really keep this to be a compelling narrative? Because, you know, I. I see all the tropes.

I see the femme fatale, the private eye, the assistant, you know, the, the crime boss, the corrupt politician. All of that is here. But where are they gonna go? And you know, in the.

The deceased love interest, all of those elements were there, but it's like, you know, what are they gonna do to kind of elevate it and merge it with the superhero story? And I think they do a phenomenal job.

Like, I mean, one thing I really like too is it's become kind of a trend now where a lot of superhero shows, they make you wait for the character to put on the suit, whether they are retired, like in this case or. Or they're stepping into. I mean, like, yeah, Daredevil comes to mind.

You know, both the original incarnation and then Born Again, like Born Again season one. It took a while for Matt to get the suit back on after he goes through that arc. And I was kind of worried that they would do this. That again.

Because I'm like, okay, here. I don't really want to wait, you know, five episodes before we see him in the spider suit. And yeah, no, he. I mean it.

Circumstances force him to come out of retirement and he still has that like internal grappling and it's very melodramatic. But I really. That was one of my favorite elements was they got to the superhero elements quicker than I thought and they merged perfectly with.

And they completely. They completely embrace the style without making fun of it or without making it look cheesy. They just nail the tone perfectly. Yeah.

And I just had a smile on my face like I'm watching a cool superhero and like flick. Noir's flick. And did you watch it in a color or the black?

No.

Nice. Nice.

I had to do black and white. I mean, I might go back. I mean now granted the. The color. But like it's cool because it. They used a very like saturated color.

Much like you see like a Wizard of Oz where it's very. It's not the kind of day where it's more muted. It's very of its time. So I do.

I am curious to go back and once I finish it, I do want to see some scenes just to see what they look like. But I had for the first viewing, I had to go full black and white. It just. It looks so much better and it's meant for that.

But I do like that they give you the option and you can kind of like. Like for instance, the. When Cat Hardy, who, I mean, was very much like a. This is the other thing.

I like how they take classic SP characters from Spider man mythology and reinvent them a little. So Cat Hardy is very much like the Felicia Hardy here. They just changed the name but, you know, she's the femme fatale. But the.

This sequence in episode one when she's singing, I think that would look great in color. It just has that vibrant aesthetic to it. So I do want to go back and watch that.

I kind of want to see some of the fight scenes of color, see what they look like and also some of the creatures and everything. But overall it just looks amazing in my way.

And. And I want to get it into the. Like there's the trope of the different gangsters and stuff. And they played so well. It could be cliche, but it's not.

And yeah, no, it was really cool to see for the first few episodes. He played. He played Milton Lucas Haas from. From Rian Johnson lore. So. And yes, damn. I was like, oh, wow, he. Is that really him? Because he.

Because he looks old and then when I look him up, he's only two years older than me. I'm like, oh, man.

And we're also. Both of us are much older than the directors we're about to talk about in the next year. I like, oh my gosh, dude. Yeah, we'll get to that in a bit.

But, but yeah, I know. That's the other thing. I really love what they do with the villains here. And like.

But the villains and Ben Reilly got all their powers during World War II and there was all this like weird monster stuff, good sci fi going on that was very evocative of like the poll.

Yep, they. They bring that up and like ever since watching the One Piece a live action.

That's a standard for the mid season cry for me because there's this one episode that is just so emotional. I was like, oh, that was heavy. Like, dang, it really got me.

Did you ever watch any of the CW Flash series?

No, but I watched. Yeah, I watched the Agree. Narrow.

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

So like, no, I was just curious because the Flash did a similar thing where like Barry and all the villains got their powers at the same time through the, the lightning storm accident. And I, I like that as a job. I mean, yeah, it's a trope, but it's like it worked perfectly here. Like they were like banning everyone.

Like, yeah, once you become electro and spoil it.

But that plays into the, the, the, the take on the famous line with. With a great power comes great responsibility. There's a twist on that take at the very end and it's. I was like, touche, guys. Touche. Nice.

Yeah, yeah. No, if you want just a like wildly entertaining series, I mean, this is it. It's. You know, and I also.

I was talking about this with Christian on another what's News episode a couple weeks ago.

There was a recent Spider Man Superman crossover comic that had a bunch of backup stories and they did one with spider noir and then the Superman of like the 30s there. So like the Max Fleischer style. And I'm like, oh, I would watch this as a show. Yes. Like, it was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, this is one where it's like. Yeah, I know. I mean, it's a. It's got the tropes. It's very much like not trying to.

He plays a lot of characters. Nicholas, this case surprisingly, like.

Yeah.

Does a lot of improv in this and he's so perfect in that. The way he can just switch different kind of characters and play that weird, quirky. Yeah. Horror that he likes to play, too. So it's. Yeah.

And I mean, he's always been great at it, but, oh, my. I mean, one of my favorite scenes, it was like. I think it was episode two or three when he goes to the apartment, because he's.

I think it was two because he's going to retrieve the suit where he left it back, and. And he pretends to be like. Like, what was he playing or something. Oh, to fix the toilet. Yeah, yeah, to fix the toilet. There. He's like, oh, nice.

You got a big histrionic character performance. It was beautiful. I mean, that's the thing about Nick Cage. I mean, yes, he is the king of Internet memes. And. Oh, I sent you on Instagram that.

My brother sent me this. This, like, comedian who does a. Perfect.

That was amazing.

He's just been making videos of it. Yeah, yeah. But like. Like, he was going to the comic shop. He's like Wolverine, you know, But. But no, Nick Gage has always been.

I mean, I think maybe, like, he's so easy to, like, you know, make memes about, but he really is a brilliant artist and actor and he knows all these different eras of film, particularly classic. And that's like, here.

Comic book reference. So.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He. I mean. I mean, he's the nephew of Francis Ford Coppola and then. Yeah. Changed it to, you know, based off Luke Cage.

But, yeah, this is just a. It's a blast of a show. You know, I. I definitely want more. Yeah. A really fun creative team here.

Liked a lot of the directors, what they brought to it. Great cast. Brandon Gleason. It's always a delight to see and learn more and more as they. It just.

Everyone knew exactly how to play the roles here and knew what kind of world this was and could blend the noir and the comedy.

And I just don't know if it plays into the. Into which a universe it's in. Is it.

Yeah.

Or is it the spider verse? I couldn't tell. And it might be both. Who knows?

And I kind of like that they leave that more ambiguous. Like, they. They say, like a line about. At the very beginning, they're like, what universe is it? But I.

They, like, I was watching a video the other day on Screen Crash, saying that, like, this was kind of the multiverse story we should have gotten, because it's not as concerned with all that baggage. It's just like, hey, let's just tell a fun story. Story set in whatever universe and yeah, Like, I. I'm gonna kind of in my head canon.

I'm setting this in the Spider verse universe. But also, I mean, the Spider verse one, like, they made references to the MCU616 in across the Spider verse, so it's all connected.

But regardless, I just. I appreciate this as a standalone story, you know? So, yeah, everybody go watch it. Awesome. Well, go watch Spider Noir.

And now for Zaya Little Dead Red. But we've got two big indie horror films to talk about next, so. Oh, the first one, this was a heavy one, man. I loved it.

Yeah, man, I love this one, though. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I. I am. Pun intended. But I am. I have been obsessed with this one ever since my daughter as well.

I mean, dude, your daughter? How old's your daughter?

Like, she's doing. She's like, oh, do you want to see it? Because really, I've seen some memes, and I was like, I don't know what it's about. But then she.

And then she was excited, so I was like, all right, yeah, let's go,.

Dude. I didn't share it out of my mind.

She was. Terry. She was screaming and, like, crying and. But she loved it. She loved it.

Like, I mean, hey, that's cool. That's cool. But, yeah, so Obsession. I mean, this is written and directed by Curry Barker, who is only 26 years old. You know, like, I.

Crazy that I'm 32, like, you know, and like, this kid's, like, you know, and making, you know, a movie that was made on a budget of less than a million, has already grossed well over 100 million, is beating out Star Wars. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's wild, but. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. So I got, like, now this is one I. I think we could download.

We can probably touch on something. Spoilers with you.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, let's do it. So. Because I. If you have not seen it, come back, listen this later.

But it has been out a couple weeks now, and, yeah, it's kind of hard to talk about it without getting into the story a bit, but the basic premise is you have this guy named Bear who. Which is, you know, interesting name to begin with, but he.

He's in this friend group, and he has a major crush on his friend Nikki, who only sees him in a platonic way, and he's, you know, trying to figure out the way to express his feelings, etc. But then he, you know, when the moment comes, he can't bring himself to do it.

But he goes to this shady goth store where he picks up a One Wish willow. I love that they named his hat. Like, that was great. Like, but it's just this, like, cheap wish stick, which he's just like, yeah, whatever.

I'll probably. I'll take this up. It's probably just dumb, but I'll pick it. But.

But in a moment of just like, either stupidity or just, you know, oh, he doesn't think this is actually gonna work. He says, I wish Nikki loves me more than anyone in the world. And from that point on, you can imagine the repercussions of that.

And, you know, this immediately causes Nikki, played by Indy Navarat, who. I was so excited to see her because I'm like, I've watched all four seasons, seasons of Superman and Lois.

It's one of my favorite Superman adaptations. And she played Lana Lang's daughter in that. And then she comes here and delivers an absolutely powerhouse performance.

But, you know, so Bear gets his wish, and Nikki instantly turns a switch and becomes not just in love, but obsessed with him and into an unhealthy degree. And from the get go, he starts, you know, noticing, like, how much her personality and behavior changes, you know, in the blink of an eye. And I.

That's why also, one of the big things I love about the movie and again, about her performance is that first 10 minutes we get to see her as her true self. And then when she switches, it hurts.

Just like it's playing a different character switch like that.

It hurts. Yes. It's brutal. And, you know, from then on, he's, you know, at first he's like, wait, is this, like, actually happening? What's going on here?

And then their other friends in the group, Ian, played by Cooper Tomlinson, and Sarah, played by Megan Lawless, they start noticing weird stuff too. And it just, you know, escalates further and further.

Probably the most, like, just like the moment where I was like, oh, you know, like in the theater was when. Because they're all working at this record store, a he go, yes, from Identity with the Stars.

Oh, yeah, sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, I. No, no, no, you're good. Like, I. And he's also like Sarah's dad in it, too. But yeah, they're. They're all organized, right?

And there's one day where he's on shift and Nikki's not. And Nikki waits for. Stands still and waits for him all day at the door and urinates and.

And like, right there on the floor because she can't move with A smile on her face. It was one of the most unsettling images I've seen in a movie in a while. And again, just perfection delivered.

But yeah, so, you know, it asks further and further.

And I dude, okay, so, like, oh, we'll go ahead and get into this because, like, I, I, I. I was amazed that I saw any reviews that were like, who is the real villain?

I know.

Obsession. I was like, bro, how did you, like, was there any debate here? This guy was.

To be honest, I give the film credit to not make Bear completely villainous because there's a world where this movie could have been where Bear was just like. He was like, oh, she. She is all mine now. And it kind of takes advantage of her in that way. They chose to not do that, which I respect them for that.

No, but it's when I walked out of the theater with my daughters, I go, hey, let's be clear. We're on the same page, right?

Yes.

To Bear was the bad guy, right? She goes, oh, yeah, definitely. I'm like, okay, good. I just want it to be clear here that Bear is the bad guy here.

No, and you're right. I mean, they didn't make it cartoonish, but, like, the moments for me where I was just like f. Skyware were when.

When, like, well, the, the fur, like, right before. Spoiler alert. But right before Sarah dies. Like in that scene in the bedroom where the ultimate. So they're like.

It does a really brilliant thing where Nikki, like, her actual self is still in there, but she can't do anything. She's, like, trapped.

And yes, a kind of demonic possession kind of a theme going on there.

Yes, yes. And so, like, there's a moment there when Bear is going to try to get outside and meet with Sarah.

And yeah, the real Nikki is conscious enough and she says to him, like, kill me. Because, like, hey, she's asleep right now. Referring to, like, the demonics there, Nikki. And she's like, kill me right now.

And his response is like, don't you.

Want to be looking at the screen at him? I was like, are you.

Oh, my gosh.

Serious?

Oh, my gosh, dude. Like, there was that and then the other. So then, of course, you know, he goes out to talk with Sarah, who, by the way, like, as a.

Has kind of had a crush on him too. And this could have all been avoided if he had just like. Yes. Like, I mean, yeah, but I mean, I knew exactly what was going to happen here.

It did not make it any less unsettling. And it still Made me jump because it was such an effective execution.

But, you know, they start talking, and of course, Nikki comes out and not just kills Sarah, but mutilates her.

I saw the same way that I jumped when the alien kind of passed by at that birthday party inside, I could. I was like, good God.

Yeah.

And then it just kept going.

No, it was.

It just kept going. Yeah, I was like, oh, no, exactly.

Like, you knew it was coming, but it was so visceral and so, like, they. Oh, it got everyone in the theater, I was into. And then after that dude, he goes to Ian after he doesn't even tell Ian that Sarah's dead.

I was like, he just kind of.

Feels bad for what he did there. Finally feels bad, and then he kind of confesses. I'm like, right, where was this 20 minutes ago, 30 minutes ago? Yes, this dude.

But the way they play this movie was a trick.

Yes.

I. I don't want to say it, but, like, the weak male where he just like, bro, have some balls, okay? Just say that you like her.

Right.

Or say this. And it just like, bro, come on. But yet I do empathize with him, too. I wouldn't go as far, I don't think, but I will. I would. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, no, I think what the movie does effectively is. I mean. No, you're absolutely, like, it's commenting on toxic masculinity, insult, all of that.

But, like, what it does effectively is at the very beginning, like, okay, let's be like. I mean, the wish stick aside. But, like, we've kind of all been there where when we were younger, we had feelings for someone, say what we wanted.

We were too nervous too. Right, right. And we were too nervous to say because, like, we didn't want to ruin the friendship.

So, yeah, I mean, that's a very relatable entry, but it's that, like, everything that goes from that point on, and that's great. And yes, it comments on. Yeah. The concept of, like, male loneliness, toxic masculinity, all of this. And I think it does it very effectively.

And it's like. And, yeah, no, it never.

Like, it starts with something relatable and a little more universal again of that, like, you know, oh, having feelings for someone but too afraid to just, you know, tell them the truth. But then it goes into. Then it just becomes like, you know, he's a monster for what he's doing to her psychologically, and. And. And it's hurting.

Not like her and everyone else around himself.

She becomes this obsessive, kind of, pick me Girl to the point of just self mutilation.

Yeah.

Causing scenes in public. And yeah. The discourse online is crazy with this movie because. Because it's wild to see what people pick up on.

And, and, and like I was talking to my wife. She's a therapist and she doesn't know the, the spoiler part.

She doesn't know about the one wish part, but she's seen clips and stuff of everything else and she's like, oh, she has a borderline. She has a mania. I'm like, yes, but it's not her. And I want to tell her like, it's not her fault. Like that that changes everything.

But she won't watch it because she hates. It's a horror film, so. And I don't blame her. I don't blame her with this one. I don't blame her.

Oh, and I mean like, spider noir is pretty fun. I mean like, yeah, not like kids show, but like it's pretty, you know, obsession and the movie we're gonna talk about after. Yeah, it's. No, I.

It's not one I can recommend to everyone because it's, it's heavy, it's unsettling. I did love it, but. But if you're not a horror fan, I. This one, I.

It'll make you squeamish and terrified and leave you with nightmares for however long to come. So I can't like necessarily recommend everyone, but. Oh my gosh, as far as, you know, like, we.

There's this kind of cliche term now called like elevated horror where it is, you know, more psychological message. Right.

And like, like, like it's just like a knot at like the, like the A24 stuff and like the, the kind of horror that isn't just like slashers of the old days, but it's like, you know, meant to really say something about humanity. But this definitely fits into that and.

To go off of that, like, right when he walked into that store to buy the thing, I knew exactly what was gonna happen. Like, this is that episode of the Simpsons, the Monkey Ball that they were spoofing, Twilight Zone. I was like, I know.

I know exactly where this is going and I don't think I like it. I was like, but I'm here for it. Come on, bring it on. And. And not disappoint. It did not disappoint because it's basically a Twilight Zone episode.

It's a cautionary tale, blah, blah, blah.

Yep.

So. But they, but they make it for the modern audience and, and our modern climate.

So yeah, very I mean, and it's. I mean, I know, I'm joking about the director being so young.

How do you have all that life experience at 26 years old to put it into this? I hope he wasn't abused or anything.

I hope not too. And I mean, yeah, it's very heavy and. But it's all.

I mean, I think like if you are from the generation that's raised on the Internet, even if you haven't dealt with like stuff by yourself and yeah.

In therapy, like you just like you can just, you know, get these material just by reading and absorbing a lot of and like seeing what people are talking about. So I don't. Yeah, because that's a good point though. I haven't read interviews with him yet, but I'd be curious.

Yeah, yeah, he seems really young, but in that kind of like cinephile youngness.

Yes, well, and also just like the craftsmanship of like, that's more like I made some shorts in college and stuff like that, but like I said 26, I would not have been that like been able to make a full feature. Right, right, right, right.

I mean the, the execution from a filmmaking standpoint and like, you know, the cleverness of the script, the execution, cinematography, it's all, it's just wonderfully done. So. So, yeah, very unnerving film.

Not one you just go to relax, to unwind after a long day, but if you're in for a wild trip from start to finish and again, nothing but prayer for all the performances. But Andy Navarre, I was just like, he was incredible.

It needs to be in Star Wars.

Yeah. 100. Oh, wait, hey, she's already been in DC. Yeah, like put her wherever, like whatever she wants to do next. I let her. But yeah. So awesome.

Well, now we have another horror film to discuss. They also came out this, this one by a 20 year old debut feature director.

This is Back Rooms, directed by Kane Parsons, written by Will Sudik and also Ken Parsons, based on his YouTube channel, starring. Reigns V. Okay.

And Mark Duplass was perfect.

But yeah, I know Evan. Yeah, he was, he really was. That was, that was great. Yeah. So I just saw this on Saturday. Evan, you want to give a little. We can also do.

This one isn't as big on spoilers anyway because like it's a very different kind of narrative than Obsession. But you want to give kind of an overview.

This movie is a film, like you said, it's based off of Kane's YouTube channel series that he made based off of a random picture on a 4chan that was a meme that had some lore that is also kind of based on the genre of liminal space photography and urban exploring. So there's so many different layers here. When I heard that this movie was coming out, I was like, are you talking about the abandoned movie?

The I was what? And then I looked into it. I said, yeah, it's like, holy cow.

So we went from abandoned malls, people making videos in abandoned malls, all the way to a full fledged psychotic thriller feature film. I'm like, wow, what. What is this world we live in that is fantastic and made by the guy that made it popular. So he.

So he took that photo that had just a caption and it was very mysterious and it had the photo. It was very liminal space photo. And he created this whole lore about it where I didn't know about the lore. My kids know about it. They love it.

I don't know that much about it. I saw like two, three episodes and I couldn't go back to it. But they constantly talk about it with their friends.

So they are in it and I just know it from the photo from like 20 years ago. But what it is is that it's a. Man played by Chitwell, that he's going to a therapist played by Rene.

And he just went through a divorce and he owns a furniture store, but he's a architect, so he's kind of. He's. He's kind of stuck in a rut. He went through the divorce and apparently it was a very bad divorce.

And he's going to the therapist for help and he. And then he owns this furniture store. That's. That no one shows up. He only has two different employees.

And it's kind of like he's very frustrated with where he is. And through a series of events he finds out there's a portal to this, what seems like a never ending room inside of his furniture store.

And things happen. They showcase the tropes of the liminal space with the abandoned a film and the abandoned rooms. And they play with a supernatural feeling.

And.

And it's very interesting how they switch from the omniscient camera view to the found footage camera view. They're very smart in how they want to switch and to see what they want to tell. And this becomes a allegory for mental health.

And what we know is that you like try. It's that a bible verse of like try to capture your thoughts. That's kind of what I took from it.

Like this is how you deal with your mental health when you when you suffer from like, manic depression and OCD and, and things that just kind of get, get, get away from you and when they, when they are not taken care of properly, they can come back and affect you. And so that allegory for that. So hopefully that made sense.

That was really eloquently put. I mean, because I, that was the thing. So like, I, I came in knowing next to nothing about the loremoth.

I almost like, I, I came in this movie, I was like, hey, is this like what normal people feel like when they go into a DC Marvel Star wars movie? You know, like, and they don't have all the like, you know, like, lore and mythology stuck in their heads? Like, I do, but, but yeah, I mean that.

And so, like, I'll say about this movie, like, I, I can't say I enjoyed it as much. Like, I thought it was a really interesting concept. I love how you described it there. That actually helped me. I did leave to take this film.

Though, but that's the one that I, I walked away.

Yeah, right, right. And I, and I like that because I, I like this concept of like the subliminal spaces.

And I think about that even with my, like the way my brain goes down various loopholes. And I think we all have sort of a Alice in Wonderland kind of in that.

Like, I mean, we have, you know, like, I mean, it's like the expression of like, I've lost my train of thought, you know, goes in a million directions. And that's what this was exploring. Granted, it made for.

It's for me an unnerving cinematic experience, which I also think was kind of the intention, but. And so that's why I wasn't, you know, K was like having a great time.

And I know this was not meant to be a straightforward narrative film, like Obsession, you know, very straightforward narrative. It's like the guy gets the, the wish dick. He makes, like, wish goes down after that. And so it was just like, you know, very straightforward.

And it was.

Right, this one, like you said, it's like, yeah, there was the element of so much, of course, character being divorced, he hates his life, and as a therapist and then he goes down this rabbit hole.

I, I granted, I do think even with all that, like the, the mythology and all of the concepts here being really interested, I do think the characters could have been written better. Like, I mean, she went to H4. Great actor, but I don't think he had a ton of material to work with. Like, it was pretty much.

It was a pretty one note Inter and same with the therapist. Like, I didn't really learn anything about her.

So for me that made it hard because I like, that's really the type of horror I love the most is whatever the concept is.

I want to be connected to the characters in some fashion and I felt that an obsession because like I was, I really felt for Nikki, for instance, you know, I felt for Sarah Bear. I was like, okay, go screw this guy. But, but, but, you know, I had that like, you know, direct connection to the characters.

Whereas here it was like, okay, it was more interested in the concepts than it was them and fleshing them out. So I think that would be my main criticism here. So still really fascinating concept.

And again, I mean, for a 20 year old director, like to do this, that's incredible. I just can't imagine. Dude, I was, I mean, in College at 20. Good gosh.

I was, you know, like, I mean, spending my money on pizza and comic books and I made a few shorts and stuff. But yeah, I could write essays and stuff at the last minute. But that was about my.

I wonder how the first day of the shoot went and the cast and crew was like, wait a minute, minute. He's the director. Like, wait a minute.

I know, right? He's a kid, dude. He's, he's directing like so804, who has been in a Best Picture.

He's, he's, you know.

Yeah.

Agent Callous.

Wait, no, wait, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, sorry, I don't think he is.

No, but he's, I mean, like, but in Doctor Strange he's Karen Mordo and he's been in like, like American gangster, 12 Years a Slave, like a bunch of stuff. But Talis. Yeah, I'm not sure but like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. But he should be in Star wars though. That would be great.

But, but yeah, I did see in the credits like. Yeah, well, James Juan was a producer. Um, Sean Levy was as well. So I mean, yeah, I mean he definitely had like mentors there.

But nonetheless, I mean, he's still, you know, like the lead here and, and,.

And all these special effects and building that practical set, I think it was what, like 30, 000 square feet? I heard they built. I was like, yeah, that's wild.

Yeah, and it was wild.

See, like, I mean the opening scene shows the little tease of it, but once they actually get into, you know, like you said, the portal and the rooms and like, and they do the stuff with like the Christmas scene with like the memories of the Christmas Tree. And like, again, all these like spaces in our mind that occupy it brought them. I mean, like it.

What's fascinating, like when we think about like, if you ever get the question of like, what's your earliest memory? You know, like, I don't know what my earliest memory is, but it's really weird. What do you remember? Childhood.

I know how I feel.

Yes, you can feel it, but I don't remember it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. So I think the film really captured that. Yeah. So for me, yes, it is a more atmospheric film. It's more about feeling, more about aesthetic. But.

And I, I would be interested in seeing what he does next and I hope for a more fleshed out narrative personally, but I, but I appreciate the ambition and I'm glad I saw it. It wasn't like my favorite personally, but I, but I'm like, hey, I, I'm all for more inventive, ambitious films like this.

Yeah.

Because me, yeah, my and my kids were talking about it and oh yeah, halfway through I remembered that the film was, was a rated R. And I'm like, oh, there's nothing wrong with this film. Like, why is it called? Why is it rated R? Because I was with my kids and then I was like, right then is where he scalpels them.

And I was like, oh, this is why it's rated R. Okay, my bad. There it is. So, but, but yeah, my daughter was saying that for her, the found footage feel and was very scary. I'm like, that's. It's not scary to me.

To me that's so nostalgic. That's like my, that's how I remember trips to Disney as a kid. You know, it's like so that twisted a lot of things for me.

I was just like, I don't know how to take this. It's so unnerving, but yet it's so nostalgic for something I don't know about. It's so weird.

And I'm a big fan of Abandoned Videos of the Bright sun films and, and, and even Adam the Woo, he was a big into that kind of stuff and the whole, and the whole Disney side of this stuff, urban exploring, it's so cool. But what I respect is the restraint from the director because the show, his series has so much lore behind it. Like I've looked into it.

It's like you could write encyclopedias on it. It's almost like a Star wars canon by now. It's. It's so deep.

And the fact that he just kind of touched on it here and he just kind of, like, set that allegory of you would never know the whole thing. You would just learn piece by piece by the Mark Duplass character.

We find out that this place is kind of a corporation, and they're trying to figure out these different portals, and it plays with memories and stuff like that. So I respect favorite strain in that.

And that is. I mean, yeah, when you. Especially when you've, like, created this mythology and.

And it's, you know, prime material for a lot of short films, it could be easy to, like, try to cram as much of that into a feature. But that's a good point. I mean, you know, and.

And it did make me want to go kind of look into this deeper and see, you know, what the appeal was and where, you know, what the fan base is saying. So. Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool.

Also, oh, did you see the Instagram meme I posted earlier where it was like, Disney trying to figure out how, like, two indie horror films beat out the latest Star wars? And it had open eyes. Dane was like, Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave with it, which.

Which, like, the irony of that was like, that comes from the first Iron man, which John Favreau dropped it. So it's kind of like. Yeah, it's is wild. But, yeah, I mean, like.

But I mean, hey, I mean, like, I. I mean, I'm going to see Mandalorian again on Sunday to take my niece and nephew. But I am, like, really happy that these two films that were. Have done so well and have defied all expectations and are challenging.

Check out our social rules. I've been sharing a lot of memes I've been making from.

Yes, yes.

From these. From these films and. And from Spider noir is prime for so many memes. There's so many perfect.

Dude, the.

The line about old hot dogs, the cheesecake. It was like, what?

Yep.

Cool.

All right. It was perfect. Yes. Evan is the master of memes.

And if you are new to systematic ecology, follow us on Social, because you're gonna find some great ones on there. But, yeah, awesome. Well, Evan, anything else you want to say about backrooms before?

They should make it up a sequel called Gardens, and it's just a bunch of abandoned Target garden centers.

Oh, that sounds interesting. Yeah, I like it. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I. I'm really a bit. Well, both cool if they don't do.

A sequel to this because it's so.

That's true. Yeah, I think it's tight enough, regardless of whatever Kane Parsons and Curry Barker do next? I'm all here for it.

I want to see same where these guys go from here. So. Yeah, yeah, right on. Well, I've been wrapping up here. Think about the topics we've talked about tonight or if you have anything else.

What's one thing you want to recommend to viewers and listeners?

I would say it's a recommendation for, for myself too. It's the, the Kane Parsons backrooms series.

It's very, from the few episodes that I've seen, it's very, it's very Fringe kind of meets the show Fringe kind of meets the Blair Witch Project. So we should do that.

Nice. Nice. Right on. Awesome. And I'm going to recommend Widow's Bay, I think if like, of course I like, you know, especially Obsession and spider noir. Love.

But, but if Obsession is a little too heavy for you and you're not quite into that kind of horror, you want something a little lighter. But it has the comedy angle to it too. I think Widow's Bay is excellent and I, I want to talk about with more people.

So go watch that great show on Apple. So. Yeah, awesome. Well, Evan, this has been fantastic.

Thank you so much for geeking out with me and thank you all to our viewers, listeners for tuning in. We really appreciate you all. Again, click on the show notes for find out ways to support us.

And remember, we are all a chosen people, a geekdom of priests. So until next time,.

Sam.