Episode Synopsis

In this episode of Moving Out of Trauma, I get to talk with Alex Barr (She/They) about the critical topic of postpartum support and the challenges many individuals face when trying to build a support system after giving birth. We discuss the struggle and lack of understanding from different generations, the importance of trauma-informed care, and how education plays a key role in making informed decisions. Tune in as we explore the power of having a support team, finding respectful healthcare providers, and the impact of birth trauma on individuals. This was such a wonderful conversation on navigating the postpartum period with compassion and empowerment.

Guest Bio

Alex Barr (she/they) is a Phoenix-based birth advocate and doula, a plus-size fat activist and parent who’s disrupting the negative narrative around birth and empowering pregnant people to trust their intuition and advocate for a more positive, informed pregnancy, birth, and fourth trimester.

Timestamps

[02:14] - Intro

[04:39] - Getting to Know the Provider

[15:54] - Topic of the Week: What Is Birth Trauma and How Do You Advocate for Yourself

[1:02:49] - Providers Aren't Robots

[1:07:13] - Trauma Tip of the Week

[01:08:47] - Final Fast Five

[01:09:24] - Container and Calm State Change Exercises

Topics Covered in this Episode

• The challenge of preparing for postpartum without a support system
• The importance of building a support system after having a baby
• Different generations' perspectives on the need for postpartum help
• Trauma-informed care and its elements
• The significance of education and asking questions in decision-making
• The availability of therapists for prenatal and postpartum support
• The impact of birth trauma and the role of healthcare providers in its prevention and support
• Concrete ways to advocate for yourself through birth trauma and build your community.

Relevant Links

Connect Alex on Instagram @alexbarrdoula and @dare.to.birth

Dare to Birth Website

Birth Monopoly Instagram (Resource shared at beginning of episode)

Sign up for our Newsletter and get your Trauma-Informed Mindfulness Workbook

https://soulmission-emdrtherapy.com/podcast

Leave us a review on PodChaser.com

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/moving-out-of-trauma-5172742

Kandace's Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/soulmission_emdrtherapy/

Kandace's Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/soulmissionmentalhealthandyoga

Resources From This Episode

Birth Monopoly (@birthmonopoly)

Reach out to your friends and family - do they have suggestions or referrals for a trauma informed provider?

Advocate for yourself, ask questions, bring a list with you, topics to cover, ask a friend to come with you or a support team (doula or a friend etc.) that will help you in speaking up.

Community is so important both with having a baby and raising a child.

Remember the acronym B.R.A.I.N when talking with your provider!

Benefit

Risks

Alternatives

Intuition

Nothing?

Join Us Next Time

If you have been following Moving Out of Trauma and listening to different episodes, you have probably heard me share bits about "boxes" and my passion that people don't get stuck in them. In this solo episode, I will be diving into what I mean, how boxes impact our mental health, how they can be traumatic and how we can start stepping outside of these boxes and burn them to the ground.

Welcome to Moving Out of Trauma. A podcast made

to support Trauma survivors with actionable steps and

resources so they can start moving out of trauma and end

the life that they're craving. I'm the host Candice Leader

Gerber, EMDR therapist, yoga teacher, first

time mom, and dog enthusiasts. I am

here in Phoenix Arizona, and I am so excited about

today's episode. But before we dive into today's

episode of moving out of trauma, I wanna give you a few reminders.

The first is that if you wanna start practicing more mindfulness

and incorporate more grounding skills in your daily life, but you've had

some trouble getting started because of past trauma.

I wanna offer you a free trauma informed

beginners guide to mindfulness workbook and create

this workbook with trauma in mind. You

can get this free workbook as well as monthly updates

about new content by heading over to sole mission dashemvrtherapy.com

/ podcast. You can sign up for our newsletter there, and you

will get this free workbook directly to your inbox. that you can

download as many times as you like and get updates when I update it as

well. Again, that link is full mission

dash EMDR therapy. dotcom/ podcast.

And the second reminder I wanna give is at the end of this

for cording and the end of every episode for that matter, we will

be giving you 2 resources that we often use

in EMDR therapy. which are the container

exercise as well as the state change place.

So these exercises are visualization exercises

that can help you transition from

maybe a state of thinking about past trauma,

awareness, learning something new into a more

calm, more centered way of being so you can

go on throughout your day. I hope these resources

help, and I would love to know your thoughts. Alright. Let's

dive into today's episode. So in

today's episode of moving out of trauma, I

have Alex Barr, a birth trauma

doula here. and I'm gonna pass the virtual mic

over so they can introduce themselves.

Hi. I'm Alex Barr. I am a full spectrum

doula, which means I support all pregnancy

outcomes. whether that's a live

birth, an abortion, a

loss, anything like that, as well as supporting people after they in

the post part of period. I'm also a childbirth educator.

I, created my own curriculum and now teach

all across the valley. my,

childbirth education, curriculum.

So cool and so needed because I can say

from someone that has a a child, but it's

not an easy process. And and I think anything

about you know, birth in any

capacity is difficult. And so I'm so happy to have you on the

show and and talking about such an important

topic of trauma informed practices as a birth

worker and how this kind of integrates in

just to our our daily lives and and what that looks like. So I'm

excited. I'm excited too. Yay.

Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no. That's okay. I was just gonna say where

the trauma portion comes in is just being a trauma

informed, Provider. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Which is is so important because you never

know who walking in the door, has trauma. It

doesn't it's not something that you just wear on your sleeves. You know,

a a lot of people have trauma, and so I think it's really important for

for every provider to be trauma informed for no matter what your field.

Yeah. It should be the bare minimum. It should be. It should be

the standard. That's right. well, to start

off the show, I have this quote that

I, you know, use as, like, a motivation as, like,

an outline for getting to know you as the provider. And that

quote is, knowing a person is like music. So what

attracts us to them is their melody and as we get to know them, we

learn your lyrics. And so, this portion of the show is

kind of learning about you, learning your melody, and your lyrics, and

what makes you tick as a provider, so people can get

more to know more about you. Yeah.

so the first question I have is why are you so passionate

about this work that you do?

I kind of fell into birth work.

it's not it's definitely not anything I pictured myself doing. It's actually kind

of almost the opposite.

I, you know, never planned on having children, and I never

like, knew much about this this world. I had

never held a newborn until I held my own

but so I had gone into pregnancy

excited, and I had a very, very

bad experience. and

I had providers who were not supportive. I had providers that

were shaming me and my size. They were

shaming everything they could, fear mongering a lot of this

stuff. And, I just

had so many experiences where I wasn't

respected and my voice wasn't heard and It

was such a hard experience to go through. Right?

And, you know, my pregnancy was very healthy,

like, physically, But mentally, emotionally,

spiritually, it was it wasn't. And it was

a lot to do with the providers that I had.

Right? so I just found that there wasn't enough

there wasn't enough support and help. Right? So that kind

of led me to figure out what doula were and

kind of, okay, there's someone there is a job, right, that

supports people when they're pregnant. And I've

I felt that, like, so much of the joy and the excitement of being pregnant

was kind of taken from me. and I

wanted to, like, give that back to other people, if I could.

So that was kind of how it started. And then

I've just furthered moved into it and seen, like, the need for,

trauma informed, doulas and child informed, trauma

informed, birth workers but as well as, like, inclusive

birth workers, you know, I'm here. I'm non binary.

Right? And so it's definitely a

field that is full of, some trans

exclusionists, right? it is not a

maybe the most fun place for queer families. Right? So

I have definitely felt a call towards that and as well as working

with, fat and plus size clients as well.

Yeah. So you kind of took your experience.

This this very painful thing that you

know, kinda molded, sounds like it was was, you

know, burst out of, something that was really painful.

but that from that came, you know, wanting to give

what you didn't experience to to people

that that want it and need it and are not receiving it for

the the many reasons that you didn't. Yeah. And so

that's where I've really just been I've put my whole heart and soul

into this. This is what I'm doing. and then the childbirth education

piece of it just was kind of born out of wanting to help more

people and wanting to educate more people on

advocacy, on advocacy skills on how to speak up for

themselves, and hopefully lessen some

trauma. Right? Like, that's the hope of a lot

of it. Yeah. Absolutely. Cause knowledge is power. Right? Like,

once we have a better understanding and better awareness of

how we can do whatever differently we can we can speak up for ourselves.

We can be an advocate. I love that.

What or excuse me, how does your personality

typically show up in the room with your clients?

So I affectionately call myself a bodyguard.

it's very much just like I definitely wanna bring that calm and

relaxing energy to the room, but I'm aware

and I'm present at the entire time.

that if my clients wishes aren't being heard

or aren't being respected, that I'm there to, like, kind of what I

call slow down the room. Right? So I can kinda interrupt

the natural flow when we're talking about

these, you know, hospital and medical environments. We see a lot of,

like, what I call autopilot. Right? We're just doing the same thing we do

every day, all day. Right? but that person

is only there once for that birth for that baby.

Right? And so just kind of understanding

that, like, you're gonna have to slow down,

right, with at least this client that I'm with. You're gonna have to listen. You're

gonna have to explain things. there's gonna be questions,

right, rather than just like I'm going, you know, a lot

of times we hear providers and nurses just like speak their mumbo

jumbo medical speak, and most people don't know what that means.

Yeah. Right? So having someone there to, like, slow things down as

questions interrupt a little bit. Say, actually, we need more information on

that, and then help my clients make their decisions.

And I definitely more than once have had to step

in and pause things that were, you

know, disrespecting someone's autonomy or not asking for

consent, like, that kind of stuff is a lot has happened quite a few

times. Yeah. Which, I mean,

in full transfer, like, it sucks that that even

has to be your role or a role that somebody has to step in

a, and I'm so glad that you are there in

those circumstances because you're it sounds like you're teaching

that individual, like, hey, this is your autonomy. This is, you know,

what your, right are as a human being in this

in this setting. because I at least, I don't know. In

my personal experience, I feel like anytime I've

been in a medical setting, it's like, oh, like, you're you're the doctor.

You're the person. You know the things. But you're still in charge

of your own own self. Like, it's okay to to slow down to

speak up to do what you need to do. to understand more fully

and make the the right decision for you. And so I I think it's so

powerful that you're there with them in those moments too.

to help to help in the capacity. Yeah.

100% because there's definitely just this it's I think it's

part of our culture. I'm not sure how it is in other places, but it's

definitely part of our culture that, like, a provider or a

doctor or a nurse, they know they can't do anything wrong. Right?

They're the authority figure. Right? But in reality,

the patient should be the the authority figure, they should be the

center of the care. There shouldn't be this hierarchy of like

who knows more because ultimately the patient is gonna

be the person who one knows themselves and their body

best. And 2, the per only person in the room who can

make decisions about their home care.

so we see a lot of things where it is just like, you know,

maybe maybe the provider or the nurse is sharing their opinion,

but I it's hard for them to understand how that would maybe

be taken from the client's perspective of, like,

oh, this is what I have to do. Right? As, like, fact, like, this is

the only option. Yeah. So there does have to be, like, a way

we talk about things and a way we share things when

we're in a position of power. Right? So -- Yeah. -- in my classes we

talk a lot about informed consent and what that looks like

and how ultimately, like, that's up to the patient. the

patient has to make sure that they're getting informed consent because

very often it's not the default. Right?

Yeah. No. You're absolutely right. And, again,

just sucks that that has to that is the way that, things

are evolving right now. And it sounds like things are

changing. But yeah. And in a perfect world, we wouldn't

doulas wouldn't exist. Right? And that's the other side of it

is that Dulas and childbirth educators

and a lot of people in this work are kind of fulfilling we're

kind of filling in the gaps of, like, community and,

like, these, like, we should have, like, lots of

people around us that have already had babies and have knowledge and

information, and we should have, like, these families that

also can pass that down. And we just don't have that. Right?

Yeah. So true. So true.

well, then with that, what is really like the

top thing you wish, everyone would know about

the work that you do or the, I don't know, birth

trauma, however you wanna answer that question. What what do you feel like everyone

should know?

It's hard to pick one. Yeah. There's a lot of

important things. ultimate, if it's just

one thing. It's definitely that, like, you are the only person who can make

that decision. And, ultimately, whatever decision you make is going to be

the right one. And that's ultimately what I always come back to

is it doesn't matter. But I say, it doesn't matter what the doctor says. It

doesn't matter what your midwife says. It doesn't matter what your friends say.

Ultimately, you're the only person who's capable of making that decision.

And, like, We have to give that power back, right? Cause I

feel like at some point where it's, like, taken from us. and I

just wanna give that back to people, and it does cut sometimes suck

to to make those decisions, right, because it's not fun if it's,

you know, if you're deciding between 2 things that you don't want. Right?

Yeah. but ultimately, there's power there and that it needs

to always be given back to whoever is the patient or

the client or you know, in that scenario.

Yeah. Which is such a huge piece I find with

trauma is that, like, taking, I mean, oh god, the

taking your power back. Like, that's such a huge piece. No matter what

kind of trauma it is, taking your power back

is so instrumental in, like, the healing

process. And so I think it's really cool that

the work that you do infuses that,

like, in I don't I don't wanna say in the beginning because it's not necessarily

in the beginning, but, like, out the process instead of, like, you know,

after the fact, right, like, okay. Now how do I, like, take my

my power back? But, like, through the process, like, how do I take my power

back? through every step, like, to make the decisions that are

right for me. Yeah. And when we're talking about birth

trauma, we're definitely talking about trauma that happens because

of your birth experience or your pregnant pregnancy experience,

but we're also talking about stuff that is triggered by this

experience. Right? Past traumas that are coming up because we are put

in a place where maybe we're, you know, in a medical situation,

we're trying to navigate or we're feeling this lack this

lack of power or this, you know, it it can trigger a lot of past

trauma as well. Yeah. Absolutely. That makes

sense. well, that kinda brings us into, like, this first

part that I'm curious about as, like, what does

birth trauma mean? Like, what does that look like?

So a lot of what when we see birth trauma is gonna come

from at the base, birth's

not going the way we expect them to go. so a lot of

people have a picture in their head and when it doesn't go

that way or it goes sideways or there's a medical emergency,

sometimes that's that's a lot. Right? And we

do see some of what we call obstetrical violence, which means

providers and, you know, people in the medical system not

respecting consent and that respecting,

autonomy in people's bodies, because ultimately,

we only ever want a provider to be acting,

without our conformed consent, right, if there's a true, true

medical emergency, And birth on its own is not

an emergency. It's not a medical a medical

issue. Right? It is a normal

human experience. It does need the help of

medical professionals sometimes, but I think if

when I think we see a lot of people who are kind of disrespected

and kind of, you know, just not cared for in

a way that would be like we said, one trauma informed, but

also just patient centered. Right?

so it's something like 1 in 3 people have

birth trauma. so and that could either be, like I said,

from a big medical emergency or that could be just from

Our plan's not going the way we thought they would. Right?

And what I find a lot is that people are not prepared

for the

intensity of birth. And that might not even be the intensity

physically. but emotionally and the

process of it, I find often is hard for people.

because I think it we usually have people on 2 camps of

like, oh, birth is beautiful and magical, and I'm not

gonna feel any pain, right, or we feel like, oh my god, it's gonna be

terrible. when very a lot of times it's

right right in the middle, right in the middle, you know.

so I think it's like the expectations are a big deal of it,

and I think a lot of it is, like I said, not having our autonomy

respected. and having power in our experience.

Yeah. Well, and so two things that I

wanna kinda like touch on there is like the expectations.

and I don't know. You you I would like to hear, like,

how I don't know how our expectations are shaped. I can

speak from, like, my perspective of, like, I feel like

movies and, you know, whatever social media. Like, those things

definitely took part in my, perspective shaping,

or expectation shaping of, like, oh, it's just gonna be this magical thing,

and I'm gonna be glowing all time and, like, whatever.

and I'm sure I'll have, like, off days where I wanna eat a bunch of

peanut butter or whatever, like, the thing was. But that wasn't

that wasn't the case. Like, that's not what my pregnancy looked like.

yeah. and so I guess I'm I'm

curious as to, like, how how you see our

expectations being shaped at, like, what it's going to look like no matter

what that it is. and,

you know, how how we I mean, I'm sure I'll just let you.

I'll ask. How we kinda check those expectations or how

we become more realistic, how we start to, you

know, see both, right, not just one camper or the

other. Yeah. I think that,

Birth is a very human experience. Right? It really

is a beautiful thing to witness, but it's

also, like, intense and mess see and, like, a little

gross, right? And so it it, to me, it's

like the perfect definition of what I would call being human,

right? And so I think we, you

know, media for sure has a big, big impact on it,

right, what we see on TV and things like that. I find

when I'm teaching about, like, the progress of labor, people are kind of

shocked sometimes when we're talking about pooping pewkeying.

Alright. And the same thing goes for pregnancy. Right? Like, no

one's telling you that you're gonna, like, be extra gassy

or, like, you're gonna have what they call lightning crotch, which is exactly

what it sounds like, but doesn't sound like it should exist.

Like, no one's gonna tell you that your pelvis is gonna feel like it's

splitting open. Like, nobody's gonna be honest

about, like, what that experience looks like. And ultimately,

the hard part is is that it's gonna be different for everybody.

And especially with birth, right? there's I could

you could literally never say, okay, this is how it's gonna

go. Right? Because it's it's just not. It's it's gonna

be just as varied as each person and each baby and each

labor that they're having. so I think just

really kind of being okay with not knowing how it's

gonna go and be okay with all of these possibilities.

and I think that's hard for people. Right? I I was one of them.

I'm a very analytical type a person. Right?

I had everything planned out. And, right, and my birth did not go

the way at all the way that I expected. And what I

tell my students is like, my

birth did not go the way that I expected at all.

But at every point of my birth, I was able to make a

decision that I felt was the best decision in the moment, and that's all that

I hope for people. Yeah. Because I did have a what I

would describe as a, traumatic pregnancy,

but I don't feel that I had a traumatic birth.

and I think it was because I had tapped into that autonomy and

that ability to say, nope, this is the right decision. I wasn't planning on this

intervention or this intervention or literally any intervention,

but every time I made that decision, I was like, this is the right one

for me. And that's all that I hope for other people

is that we can have these spaces where we're going into where we have like

a little bit of knowledge. and a a little bit of tools

of, like, how we can make those decisions and

how we can take that power back. Right?

and use that in their birth, right, and not

kind of be okay if it doesn't go the way you plan

it. You know? Yeah. I love that you hit

on that because I I think you're so right. It encapsulates what it

means to be human. It's it's messy, and it's beautiful, and

it's gross sometimes, and it's hard, and it's

painful. And it's, you know, also know, really beautiful and

really amazing and and way that words can't often describe.

Yeah. I I enjoy that. Yeah. and then the other thing

I wanted to specifically ask, you said,

I try and not butcher this. Obstetrical violence. Did I say it

right? Yeah. Great. So,

break that down a little bit more for us as to, like, what that

means and how someone can, like, recognize if it's

happening to them and and what they can do.

So what I would first say, I would love to provide a

resource first. there is

a I believe her Instagram account is called

Birth monopoly. and they go, like, really

in-depth with, obstructural violence. They also

have all the information of, like, if this happens to you, how to

report it, right, resources for all of that. So I

would love to give that first. but eccentric violence is

gonna be essentially any any harm that's

done to you when you're pregnant in labor,

postpartum, right, and a lot of times we see it just

looking as not we're not asking for consent, right, where,

interventions are being done without you asking. things are being hung

on the IV without asking. we're saying, hey.

I'm gonna lay down. I'm gonna check you. Right? That's not a

question. It should always always be a question.

and those are just a few examples. Right? So anywhere where we

see autonomy not being respected, informed consent being ignored,

anytime where we see someone, like,

physically

maybe someone physically using their power or even just using their power.

Like, we talked about in a hierarchical higher arc wheel

way, essentially. Yeah. to get you to do what

they want rather than what you want.

Oh, which You would hope

that it wouldn't happen, but, like, even as you were laying out those

examples, like, even in the very, okay, like, Let me

check you. Alright, lady. Yeah. Like, you're right. Like, those aren't questions.

Those aren't that's not asking for consent. That's

that's demanding. That's that's not.

and, you know, I don't know if this would go back to this, but like

that culture that we talked about of you know, the medical,

hierarchical stuff,

which I have my own personal bone width. But, you know,

I'm sure you do. I worked in

hospitals for a brief period in time, and I

I couldn't stand it, like, the hierarchical piece that was

there and, you know, Yeah. It just it

doesn't I don't -- And it doesn't fit well with me. It's hard. It's

really hard. Right? And I never I don't talk about

it a ton, especially with, like, my clients and things like that because

I don't want to be the fear mongering person. I don't wanna scare

people out of going to the hospital when they need it. They're out of

asking for that care. so I do try to kind of walk the line

about it a little bit. Yeah. But they're it's the reality,

right, of what we're seeing and what what people are sharing. Right? And if

1 and 3 people have birth trauma, right,

that's a conversation to be had about what what role

the doctor or the midwife or the nurse has. in

lessening that trauma and centering the patient in their care.

Yes. Rather than, like, using their

power over people. Right? And I think it's a hard

thing for a lot of people to understand that if

you have that power, you have to be really careful with how you

use it. Right? Yeah. And I really tried to be I try to be

very conscious in my work that I'm always centering the

client. I'm always centering the person who's giving birth and their

family. Right? and not making it about me and

not trying to influence what I think I would do in that

situation, right? really trying to give that,

like, unbiased, like, support,

right, and being very clear, like, what is my

opinion -- Yeah. -- and what is not. Right? And that's something that

I teach all of my educators as well. We have to be very

careful about what we say because we are gonna

be viewed sometimes as, like, the experts in the

room. Right? And so it's very important that we

are clear about what is evidence based,

what is anecdotal, and what is an opinion. Right?

Yeah. Because it's not it's not to say, oh, you don't share your opinion. It's

just to say they need to know that that's your opinion. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. To know and and to make the decision that's best for them

off of I mean, I can't count the number of times that, you know, I've

had a phone call with several different people asking different people's opinions, but I

knew that I was getting their opinion to then make the decision that's for

me. but when you're in a provider's office, like, sometimes that's

not so clear cut is to this is my opinion. This is what

I'm giving you versus this is fact. This is what you need to

do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

so I think that leads really perfectly into the next piece of how

on earth, do we find these practitioners and these providers?

And, you know, all all those pieces of of finding

someone that's going to be trauma informed and and right

for us? this is always the

thing I read into. It's hard. Right? It's

very difficult to find people who are going to align with

that. and of course, you can. And I encourage you

to I encourage everyone to

essentially reach out to other people. And, right, is it

a Facebook group or people you know and get their opinions or

their suggestions on people, right, because that's gonna be the easiest way

to tell what type of person a provider is. Right? Yeah.

if we can't find a provider, right, then I just

try to arm people with, like,

these tools. Right? I try to fill up their toolbox of, like, how do

we stand up for ourselves? How do we how do we ask questions? Right? How

do we talk to providers? How do we go in

knowing that everything they say is an option is a choice.

Right? There's nothing there's nothing because

we have autonomy, there is nothing that is not,

that I can't say no to. I I can say no to literally

anything. Even if it's dangerous, even if it's against

medical advice, right, I can't ultimately say no to anything. And

that doesn't mean I want people to say no to everything, but we have to

know in our hearts and, like, truthfully in our brains, like,

Nothing they say is an order. Right? Mhmm. Mhmm.

so I definitely the tools of, like, advocacy, how we

ask questions, right? bringing

in, like, a list of questions is always great. Right? That way we're not

forgetting because people get very can get very panicky or nervous

around providers. so having a list

of questions and things that topics they wanna talk about.

and then ultimately, always asking for time, right?

And this could be in our pregnancy, you know, in our

prenatal appointments or in birth. Right? So I go

to the for my one of my appointments and the provider is saying,

oh, you know, you should do this, this, and this. right, I don't have to

say yes to anything right there. I can say, okay, let me think

about it, and I'll let you know. And I can leave, and I can go

do my research, and I can process us, what was said to me, and then

I can decide what's right. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. and then having a support team that really

can be there, right? And maybe that's a doula. Maybe

that's a friend. Right? I feel like almost everybody knows a

person who can be like a little, like, isn't afraid to be very

opinionated or speak up, right? having someone

that to come with you to appointments or having someone help you and

any of that way or bounce ideas off can be a great tool as well.

And then just hopefully we're able to slowly start surrounding

ourselves with people who respect that and hopefully providers,

right? because I'm always looking for them. If they're

hard to find, you know, and very often I find them

outside of, right, I it's hard to find, like, a a

med, like, a hospital OBGYN, right, that I would

be like, yes. I trust this person fully, but I find that a

lot in, like, midwives. andulas and

kind of people who are already doing something a little different.

Right? I very often find a lot of trauma

informed care. I find a lot of respectful care.

Like, you know what? Ultimately, it's your choice, and we're gonna let you do it.

You know? So sometimes going outside of the system a

little bit, even for some extra things can be helpful. You

know? Yeah. I mean, I hear a lot

of what you're saying is coming back to, that community

that you kinda hinted at earlier.

down to, like, having a friend go with you to your appointments or having

someone to go with you that will, you know, stick up for you

and and kinda slow the room or, you know, however that looks

or whatever you need in that moment, even just to remind you, like, hey,

an option. Like, you can you can have, you know, time. You don't have to

answer them right here right now. you don't have to make this decision right

now. But coming back to that place of

community that, you know, we weren't meant to do

any of this alone, you know, Yeah. Pregnancy

having a baby life. Like, none of it. Right? Like, we are --

Yeah. -- all of it. Yeah. All of it. Everything.

you know, we're we're meant to be in community with others.

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that the part that's missing so

heavily, with a lot of families when I'm talking with

families about, you know, preparing for postpartum, right? It's

very often like we don't have any friends here or

any support system, right? And I was definitely one of

those people. I didn't have any support system, and then I

had a baby. And I was like, oh, shit.

Okay. I guess I have to like,

there's there's no one? Okay. I guess I gotta go build that,

right, it's much harder to do that after you have a

baby than if you had done it a little bit

before, at least. Right? And I think that comes a

lot from, like, when you are, it's just you

and maybe your partner or maybe, you know, just you.

Right? you can kind of do whatever you want. You can

kind of get by with not having this large community, right,

And then once you have a kid, you're kind of like, oh,

a community would be really nice right now. You know?

some support and care, right, would be really nice. And then

we also run into sometimes where people have people around or family

around. but they're not willing to offer support or they're not

able to offer support and the way that's needed. And

sometimes that's just like, we don't have the capacity to help And that, you know,

and that's fine. But that's why we need so many people around us

so that even everybody's little bit can equal up to be

what we need. Yeah. And then a lot of times

we run into these barriers of like different gen

generational barriers, right, where -- Mhmm. you

know, my grandma and I know she's out alone will tell me, I didn't have

any help postpartum. Why do you need help? Mhmm. Instead of

saying, I didn't have any help postpartum. And, oh my

god, I can't wait to help you postpartum. Right? Like, I didn't

have that, and I want you to have that. It's very much like, well, I

didn't. Why do you need it?

Yeah. Yeah. This, this gap in

Oh, like, I'm trying to think of the words to, like, to wrap around with

that, but, like, just this this feeling of, Yeah.

Like, what why do you need that? I didn't I didn't get that. Why do

you need that? and, I mean, What

was coming to my mind is we were, like, talking through those different pieces of,

like, it takes a village. Right? And it takes a

village of, of the right people who are willing

and able and in the same space,

and all of those different pieces. Like, a lot has to add up,

to create that community, which I

think is just one facet of what makes it

difficult to create that community. Right? Like, that's just

one one piece of it, one piece of basil.

what do you tell people or how do you talk

through that, you know, real very real difficulty

as people are trying to start build, building the community they want

for themselves. a lot of that

is hard. Right? It's definitely out of my, like,

scope of, like, being a doula for sure.

but it's ultimately going to take work. And I think that's what's

hard for people. and I see it in a lot of

different spaces, not just like a postpartum or like the prenatal space.

Like, I definitely see it everywhere.

yeah. But what I see a lot is just like not understanding

that, like, their your friendships are gonna be relationships

the same way you would maintain a romantic relationship, you're going to maintain

it, you know, a friendship the same way. so putting the

effort in. And then also we have a lot of, like, Are

you asking for help? Are you asking for support?

Are you reaching out? Are you, you know what I'm saying? Are you putting yourself

out there a little bit? Right? Because that rejection,

like, the rejection feels real when it doesn't happen,

right, or when something doesn't work out, but you kind of have to

keep trying until you find your people and you find your community and your

chosen family, right, especially if you don't have support

that's around us or maybe we don't have a supportive family.

Right? And that's kind of the boat that, that I was in when

I was, you know, giving birth was just like I don't

know who to call. I don't know who to rely on. Right? And

I hadn't done any of that work prior. So, like

but, you know, and I've done a lot of that work since, and it has

really paid off, like, to have a community

and to have friends and to have my my kiddo to have

friends, you know, that kind of stuff has all it's

all, like, it's been really beneficial. Right? So I

just really recommend kind of like putting yourself out there a

little bit. You know? Yeah. it

kinda reminds me, like, chipping away at it. Like, you know, because it's not something

that's going to happen overnight by any means. And so, like, if you can do

a little bit each day or a little bit each week or whatever

that looks like for you and, like, the space and and time capacity that you

have, to start to start chipping away

at it. So that way you can put yourself out there little by little and

and find, the places that you feel good and the places that

you feel I don't know, centered.

Yeah. And that's where because, like, we have this to talk about because we're talking

about, you know, postpartum and postpartum mood disorders.

And obviously postpartum mood disorders are they're very serious, and I

don't take them lightly. But I do my opinion is

that a lot of them are gonna are caused by that lack of

community. You know? And when we go

for support, right, sometimes that just looks like

medication, right, and therapy, which I love those

things. But if I have medication and I have therapy and I'm

still alone, with my kid all

day. And I don't have, you know, I don't have community.

Yeah. And I don't have support, and I don't have that stuff. it's not going

to actually help me out of that hole

of, you know, depression or anxiety or

postpartum OCD or anything like that. And that's

where I feel like some of the disconnect is.

Yeah. Yeah. The the need for connection,

not just not just a therapist, not just a, you know,

medication to balance whatever is going on in the body.

you know, again, going back to that theme of, like, we are meant to

be living in connection and with other human beings. And if we

don't have that and we don't feel supported and we don't feel seen,

and we are just with a a small person for every hour

of the day no matter how much we love them. you know, we

still need that. We still need that connection. And they can't talk at

the beginning. They just, like, look at you and, like, poop and fall

asleep. Like, It's, like, it was, like, they're great,

but they're not gonna be the same as connection with another

adult and connection with people and community

and, like, people who are going through the same part of their lives,

you know, as well, or, like, all of that is kind of

you're it's not replaceable. Right? Like, we can't just we can't

replace that with therapy and medication and all these great

tools, but there's still gonna be something missing. And that's

where I find, like, it feels sometimes when I'm supporting

people postpartum that, like, that there's no winning, that

there's there's not enough that I can do, you know,

because it won't no matter what I do, it's not gonna create a

community around them. You know? I'm one

person. I'm one part of it. You know? the people I refer out

to are a small part of it, but getting that really

solid group of, like, that really solid community that

can be there when you need it is really hard. Yeah.

Absolutely. And I 100% register what you're

saying of know, I I'm just one person because I feel that way as a

therapist, like, being with support or being a support to a client,

who is for referred to me because of X Y Z. Right?

you know, they they need more. They need more than just like this one person

for 1 hour a week. that, you know, is helping them in this one

way, in this one capacity. and

so this is something that, you may have

recommendations on. And if not, that's okay too, but I'm curious because I

know there are so many apps out there today of,

like, the one I just saw, like, last week. I think it's called

Emma or Emma. I think it's Emma. and then I know before

I when I was pregnant, I saw one that peanut. Like, there's so

many apps that are, like, connecting people. is there

any app or any anything when when you

are kind of, like, in this place where maybe you're kinda

starting from scratch, like, any place that you would recommend

someone starting. all of that stuff is great, especially because you

know people are there because they want the same thing. Right? You

know, some people will use bumble. They have,

like, a friend version of Bumble, which is cute.

and then Facebook and I hate Facebook a lot,

but I have beat a lot of friends through Facebook groups, and I've beat a

lot of mom friends and that can feel a little

less intimidating than, like, walking up to someone in the park

or, you know, like, it can be a little bit more of like, hey, this

is who I am. Does anybody wanna hang out? Right? Yeah.

so, like, really really just trying that. I because

I feel like it a lot of people are like, oh, that's hard or, you

know, and from, like, one introvert to another. I promise

it's it's worth it. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Finding. Again, nitching away at it, finding

the people that you wanna hang out with. you know,

and really just, again, finding the people that you feel like a sense

of belonging with because that's what that's what it comes down to

in that that feeling of community. And I definitely

feel feel like that's irreplaceable. Like, like you said, medication and therapy

just can't replace that. It's not it. Yeah. Nothing. It's like

I want everybody to have access to those things as well.

But I also think that we're kind of missing that part of it. And there's

-- Yeah. -- there we need to emphasize that more, I

think. Yeah. Absolutely.

so, you know, we checked a little bit on the postpartum depression and anxiety

and OCD in those pieces. Is there anything else

that you wanted to speak on when it comes to that,

realm of of all of this? Well, we're talking about, you

know, birth trauma and the effect that it has on us, it, you

know, postpartum is forever. Right? It's the rest of our

lives. they'll say that very often,

like, you know, people with dementia or

Alzheimer's, they, like, they will still remember their birth

stories, and they will still tell their birth stories.

so understanding the profound impact that it has on

our souls, essentially, right, that's imprinting on us.

Right? understanding that

it how your birth is important and how you care for

yourself afterwards is even more important.

Right? We talked about autonomy and all of that stuff when we're birthing.

But, you know, postpartum, if we still had a traumatic birth,

how do we handle that? what support do we reach out to?

How do we see a therapist? Right? Almost everybody

should. Right? in my opinion at least. I'm biased,

but I agree. Right. So just

like understanding that it is gonna have a profound impact on us.

and -- Yes. -- it is okay to wanna talk

about it and -- Yeah. -- get support for it and try to

process it. Right? because I think a lot of people say, oh, well,

my baby's here, and I'm here, and that's all that matters without

understanding that that experience is so important

to anybody who gives birth. Right?

Like, that's such a profound impact

And I

see people who A lot of people who

miss out on that time period, right, they're

dissociating their you

know, so deep in, like, postpartum anxiety or depression or

things like that that they don't get to enjoy that time. Right?

And you don't have to enjoy it. Right? But I also don't want you to

be, like, dissociating and having such a hard time and checked

out of it either. Right? Yeah. so

that's kind of where I, like, I'm like, please

get the support. Please go to the support group. please

call the therapist. Like, please just make that, like, even

one step at a time to, like, help with that is gonna be

Unbelievably helpful in the long run. I've never heard

someone say like, oh, that was a waste of my time.

Right? Like, dealing with your birth trauma, dealing with

any, you know, any other trauma that came up came up as well.

Yeah. Absolutely. and I think one of the things you

said, but I don't know. It just

kinda hit my brain of, like, post -- is forever.

Like, it is forever after birth. I can't make

credit for that. That quote is from someone named Erica Davis.

Thank you. Yeah. It is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's so important

to, I think, see or hear,

because it doesn't just stop a week after you give birth

or a month after you give birth, like, and

I'm forgetting if I I heard this from you or if I heard this

from another person or read this somewhere,

but the the length of time that somebody

could could be diagnosed with, like,

postpartum depression anxiety or OCD is, like, up to a

year, I think. Right? Or -- It's up to, some stuff I've

even seen up to 2 years. up to 2 years. Yeah.

So, I mean, the it's it's an

evolutionary process. Right? Like, it is something -- Yeah. of how, like,

our our life unfolds in in so many unique ways. And,

like, we've said a lot of times in the conversation of it can be

really freaking hard. and

just just knowing that, like, Well,

it's so important to take the steps to

not just, like, care for yourself, like, oh, go, you know, have some cell care

time or some mommy time, like, you know, whatever thing, but

really having, you know, the community

spaces, having, you know, a provider that you can go

to. you know, and again, like,

taking those small steps, like, even a tiny up weekly

or daily or whatever it is is going to build up in the long run

of you being able to heal, physically,

mentally, emotionally, spiritually, versus

shutting it down and hoping it goes away because when we do that,

it just comes out, you know, somewhere else. In a different way.

We have that payment. The 2 things I recommend for postpartum

mood disorders is 1, you and

everybody else in your support team should know what those look

like. Like, your partner, your or

anybody who's going to be around you should know what those postpartum mood

disorders look like, what the symptoms of our our of them,

because if you're experiencing it, it's very likely

that you're not gonna notice that.

I also love to tell people that other caregivers

can get postpartum mood disorders as well. Right? So

anybody who's caring for the for that baby on a full time basis can

get that. get those inexperienced things.

and very often we see a lot of partners and a lot of support

people who are dealing with their own trauma. but it's

never addressed. Right? And sometimes we see that come out

at maybe the next birth, right, if they're having another child. Right?

or we see that come out in other ways. so it's very important that

everybody knows what that looks like so that if that happens, then you

have more than one person who's able to say, hey, like,

can we get you in with a therapist? Can we get you in to see

some support kind of thing? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

I think that's you you had a really good spot there of, like,

you know, it's not just the the person that gave birth. It's the

people that are in support around that person. And,

yeah, I've broken record here, but coming

back to the place of community of, like, the people in your support network that

are taking care of the tiny child, like, you know, making sure, like,

hey, you know, are you okay, like, checking in and figuring out, like,

you know, is that is that a red flag or is that a, you

know, a symptom of, like, do we need to kinda check this

and and, you know, bring this up and and really address

it, you know, versus, like, Was that just like a hard

moment? Like -- Yeah. -- you know, like, because the fit, those are

there too. You know? And so differentiating and

figuring out, like, is this something deeper that we need to,

find some space for? because -- Yeah. if there's anything

I've learned in in Fahrenheit, it's that you you won't have space

for what you don't create space for. 100%

100 That's, like, a perfect way to put it. If

you don't create the space, it will never come. There will always be another

thing to do. There will always be something that's pressing. Right? You have

to create that space. And it's 1000 percent

okay to create that space. Yeah. because it is gonna make

you a better parent, a better caregiver, a better

person. Right? Better human beings, you'd be able to

exist and be. because you deserve that. Right? And

then ultimately, if you're raising a kiddo, they deserve that too.

Right? They deserve a parent who is fulfilled and cared for

and taking care of themselves, you know, yeah, because that's

gonna benefit everybody. And people really underestimate

the huge impact of, like,

sleep deprivation and, like, the change of your schedule

and, like, a crying baby, like, those have deep

psychological impacts. Like, that's how they they torture people.

They, like, play crying babies and don't let you sleep. Right?

Like, it's not like and that's where it comes back to, like,

we can't we can't we we can't lie

to people and tell them like, oh, postpartum's gonna be great. Right? Right. And

everything's gonna be beautiful and perfect the same way about birth. It's

gonna be human. It's gonna be real. It's gonna be gross and

messy. Right? it can be such a good experience,

but a good experience does not mean it was perfect or it

wasn't hard. You know? And I think some people confuse that.

And that's where we have a lot of, like, pair you know, they call it

mom guilt, but parent guilt of, like, oh, I'm not doing enough or my

house isn't clean enough, or my journey does not look as perfect as I thought

it was going to when in the reality, like, everybody's gotten shit

on at some point. Like, It's not like

it's not like anybody's immune to that. You know? Yeah.

that just might not be what they're sharing, and that's okay.

Yes. Yeah. Which is so, prevalent to

the, the culture that we're living in right now that's that we're just

sharing highlight reels of, you know, moments in the day. Right? Like, you are

not witnessing that person's every moment of every day. And so, like, you

can't compare, what is it? You can't compare

your life to, a snapshot. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And in the reality, when you just got shit on, are

you wanting to, like, slow out your phone and post it on the internet? Are

you like, okay. I do. I'll put this right. And

that's okay. Some people do that, but it's just understanding that not

everybody's gonna do that. They're probably just doing that. Right? Absolutely. When

they're happy and having a good time, they're like, oh, let me take a picture.

Right? Yeah. It's not usually like, oh, this is a hard day, so

I'm gonna take a picture. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. And I feel like this has kind of been

infused into the conversation as we've talked, but, you know, I know we talked

about, like, the education piece on

lessening the trauma and, you know,

creating a space to limit the trauma, where

there other aspects and other pieces that you wanted to share with that just because

I know it has been infused throughout.

when I'm thinking about, trauma informed care, I'm thinking

about,

let me think. because we did already talk about a couple things.

community, right, that was, like, theme for our whole,

right?

peer support, like, inform consent. Pierce support. -- we talk about. Right?

asking for informed consent, making sure that's something we have. Everybody on

our support team, right, knows that that's important and know that

that might be something they have to, like, remind about,

and then education is a great piece of that. Right? Like,

a lot of times I think we think like, oh, we can just go into

the doctor and they're gonna know everything and they're like, right? And I

don't have to know anything. But ultimately, you should know anything,

and I encourage people to, like, use that as a way to, like, take some

power back of, like, No. I do have a base understanding of what I'm

coming in for or what my options are. Right?

Like, making sure there's space for that. There's also space to ask

questions Right? So we teach, we

teach Brain, which is an acronym. So essentially anytime

you're faced with, like, an option or a choice, or an intervention

or a procedure, right, we're gonna walk through brain.

So b is gonna be the benefits. What are the benefits of this

procedure are gonna be the risks. What are the risks if I do

it? What are the risks if I don't? a is alternative.

So what are my alternatives? and then I is intuition.

So what is my intuition telling me? and then n is for

nothing. So what if I do nothing? and how long can I

do nothing, right, what happens in that case. Right?

So using that as a tool to, like, I I

find it often starts those conversations with our providers where sometimes it would

just be like, okay, I guess. Yes.

Right? Like, rather than doing that, which is totally fine if that's what you want

to do. I never wanna tell someone like you have to ask for more information.

if you're comfortable not asking your if you're comfortable not getting

more information, that's fine. but, that information is

gonna be your power. Right? That's you taking that power back

to make sure you're making an informed decision. You know?

Yeah. And it is also powerful to make an informed

decision to not get more information. Right? Like,

that's fine too. but making sure that that's

not the default because I think that's ultimately what happens most of the time is

people say, okay. Right? You're the doctor. Right?

And there's so much more there's so many more choices that

you can make so much more information that you can ask for.

Right? So kind of using those tools can really help.

and then again, therapist. Please go see it

there, sir. Right? you can see somebody

anytime, of course, but you can see them prenatally. You can establish care. You

can see them postpartum. So you can get care then as well. Right?

So just knowing that there's resources and

there's support out there for you, and it doesn't have to be like,

you're just suffering by yourself kind of thing. You know?

Yeah. Absolutely. I really like, but,

that acronym does 2 things. It slows down the process.

Like, you were talking about in the beginning that that's kind of like your role

in it. and it also asks the person to tap into their

intuition. yeah, because I I can be a

very, cognitive person sometimes. Like, I have to

actively, like, sink into my heart and, like, my my soul and

check, like, Oh, okay. Like, what is this part of me saying?

so I really love that that's included of, you know, not just,

like, the thinking part, but what is what is the other parts of me

saying? you know, and and figuring it out from there

and and from that perspective. and that, yeah, you

don't have to you don't have to be in any of this

alone that, there are resources. There are people out there

that that wanna be a part of that.

Yep.

well, I think this is a good place to pause

for a quick break, and then we will be back with

the, last couple bits of our show. Yay.

I wanted to take a quick pause to share with you a few resources.

So if you are looking for ways to find more grounding and more

mindfulness into your daily life and with real actionable steps.

I've developed a workbook that will walk you through developing this skill.

It comes from a trauma informed lens. So if you've tried

mindfulness before and you felt like it was more triggering than useful,

you could have been actively dealing with a trauma response. So this

workbook is designed for trauma survivors, and more than that, it gives you

actionable steps and it's packed with information. So whether your

schedule looks like a stay at home caregiver, whether you're someone who works

in 9 to 5 or something else entirely. There's something in

this workbook for you. So you can head over to sole mission

dash emgeotherapy.com/ podcast You can

subscribe for our newsletter where you'll get reminders once a month about new

content and an email with that free workbook.

Again, that link is soul mission dashendrtherapy.com/

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And lastly, if you'd like to work with me and you live in either Arizona

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we can chat about if this type of work is right for you. it

is also a great accompaniment for if you are already

working with a therapist you're having a hard time breaking through some kind

of block or trauma response or trauma trigger. You can go to

soul mission dash EMDR therapy.com slash

contact, which will be in the show notes. Alright. Let's

get back to today's episode.

Alright. So we are back here with Alex Barr. And for this

next part of the show, we are talking about how providers are not robots.

And so, this section of the show was kind of inspired

by, so often I find, like, when people come to

first see me, they kind of they're only seeing me

in this one one small window, this one little bit, and,

kinda comes from, like, this thought of, like, an insta bubble,

right? Like, people are living only in this one small snapshot

that we see them in. And so I wanted to kinda just

foes, you know, a little bit more like to our humanness

and who we are as people, as people are looking for

you know, birth doulas and therapists and all the different types of providers

that are out there that help with this healing work. So,

Do you have an example of when you,

have just experienced your own humanness and and

that you were not a robot. I

experience it often, and I'm actually someone who really

tries to, like, break down the barriers a little bit of,

like, professionalism, I guess.

Yeah. so

I I tried to share a

lot of who I am as a person and kind of lead with that.

So in my my business social media and how I

present myself, I'm very much just like, hey, this is me. And if you like

me, then you can hire me. And if you don't. That's okay.

so I'm, like, not afraid to, like, share my life or what I've been

going through. right, or my experiences because I think

that they really that perspective is really important.

And I tried to, like, let people know what

perspective I'm coming from, right, like, where I'm coming from and, like, what I'm sharing

and what I'm doing. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

and I I think at least what I found in

the therapy world is that sometimes, like, with

the the ethics and stuff like it can be sticky for me to both,

yes, be human and, like, show you who I am, but also, like,

you know, in this therapist role. So I think it's it's interesting to

watch that unfold and how things are changing in the therapy world for

that. but I really like how you shared like,

hey, this is me. Like, if you like me, we can work together.

And if you don't, that's okay too. and I think that

really honors, like, you know, autonomy and choice and, like,

but being able to pick your provider and pick who you're working with.

Like, you don't have to just go with, like,

you know, the person that you were referred to by your doctor or

person that, you know, you were told to go see. Like, you can do

your homework and find someone that you click with, and it doesn't have to

be, like, I don't know, like a weird

dance. And that's one of the things that I like about being a doula is,

right, I -- Yeah. -- I work for myself. I Like,

and I it really does have to be this, like, connection of,

like, you are gonna you're gonna have to want like me and want me

in your space. right, to invite me into such an intimate, like, part

of your life. where, you know, I definitely see a

lot of other practitioners who -- aren't able to be as

opaline themselves, and I totally understand that.

but as far as me, it's like, I'm gonna see you give birth. I could

be with you for, like, a couple days, like, you know, or if

I'm teaching people, I'm seeing them for, like, 4 once a week

for 4 weeks. Like, You're gonna have to like me a little bit.

So being able to kinda lead with that and just show that I am a

person. Right? You know? their little snapshots of my day and that kind of

stuff. I really try to I use social media as a way to do

that, and it works in twofold of, like, it brings the

people that like me to me. It also kinda weed out the people that weren't

gonna like me or maybe who weren't gonna

align with what what you know, who I am, and I'm

okay with that. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. There's

for every person, there is a provider out there that will click with you. gotta

find the right one. Yeah. Yeah.

so on to the trauma tip of our

show, so if you had one

tip, to give your trauma survivor,

that or just a tip that you would like everyone on on earth

again to just be aware of and to know, what

would what would you share here about this this world?

Let me think. because I think I shared the one I was gonna share

earlier when I was talking about autonomy.

I I I feel like we can tie it all back together and talk

about community and talk about, like, find

the people who will love and support you and lift you up and,

like, be there for you. And it's okay if

some of that help is, like, people you have to pay.

Right? It's okay if you would need to hire a birth doula or a

postpartum doula or a therapist or you know, people who

can kind of fill in those gaps as you build your community. Like,

that's totally okay. That's what we're here for. You

know? And just, like, that's gonna

be so important to, like, everything, right, is, like,

building that support system in that community. We aren't

gonna survive without it. You know?

Yeah. We weren't mean to operate alone. Nope.

Yeah. okay. So on

to the final fast, sometimes funny questions

just again to hone in on our humanness and just a fun way to wrap

up the show. So if you could visit any place on

earth, where would you go?

I've always wanted to go to

to, like, Japan. That's on my bucket list.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be so

cool. Yeah. I've always wanted to go to Thailand.

Yeah. and I I've always wanted to go back. I was in

Germany as a child. I've always wanted to go back to Germany and kind of

like see if I

could remember anything. Right? Like -- Yeah. -- go

experience it as an adult. Yeah. Yeah. It's always

different going back to a place as an adult versus a kid. So that would

be that would be interesting. Okay. Cool.

should pineapple be on pizza? I mean,

if you want it to be. I like that

way of answering that question Some people get very, very

heated. Sorry. I had low battery pop up.

some people get very heated about the pineapple question.

And -- I say live your life. Live your life. -- pineapple on

pizza. Go for it. You like pineapple on your pizza?

No. Nope. Okay. Fair enough. That is okay.

That's so funny. Yeah. It's so funny that One or the other. It's it's

typically I've only met one person that has said either or. Like, they

could do either, and I found that interesting. So it's just a

interesting one. what makes you feel inspired

or motivated to do this work that you love?

Definitely just the families that I get to work with. Yeah. It just makes

me excited to do it and excited to be there and excited to be a

part of it. And then my own kid, right? Like, I want

him to have a better world. Like, I want him to have a better

future, you know, Yes. There's so

much that needs to be done. And I'm like, okay. I'm gonna do

my little part and hope that it helps in some way. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. what is one

thing people are generally surprised to find out about you?

Oh, that's a good one. I don't know. I feel like I always surprise

people. Like, they meet me, and they're like, oh, I thought you were gonna be

really mean.

Okay. I am a lot of, RBF

resting bitch face. I'm okay with it. I've

leaned into it. It keeps strangers from talking to me, but,

but so I find a lot of people are like, oh, I thought you were

gonna be mean. And I'm like, no.

No. Well, and, hey, who in in the world

can be smiling every moment of the day. Like, I can't even imagine how your

face muscles would feel at the end of that day. Like, no thanks. And that's

where it's like, I don't know if it's a smile. It, like, a would help

it or if it's just, like, my general, like, normal face if they

but it's, like, people are always like, oh, I thought you're gonna be

so neat. Oh, and you are

not. No. What does a simple moment of

pure joy look like for you?

driving, you know, windows down,

music, a full blast, you know, screaming at the top your lungs. He's at

the top of your lungs kind of thing. Yes. I

love it. What's the weather like in that scenario?

like, Fall. Yeah.

Fall. Yeah. Yes. I wanna have jacket on, but I don't wanna

be hot. You know? Yep. Perfect.

Not not the temperature outside right now. At least not in Arizona.

Nope. I'm so good, Emma. Oh, yeah.

Yep. well, thank you, Alex, so much for being

on today's show. I'm so happy that you could

come on and just share your wisdom and your experience with

us and just help us get a little bit more closer to

to healing. Thank you for having me. I loved

it. Yay. You're welcome.

Thank you so much for joining me today on moving out of trauma.

If you'd like today's episode and you think it might be useful for someone

else, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform

or on podcheeser.com. And if you have any questions at

all, I would absolutely love to hear from you. You can find me over on

Instagram at full mission_emDRtherapy.

or on Facebook at Full Mission EMDR Therapy.

If you'd like, please stay tuned for the visualization exercise

coming up next to transition to the next part of your day.

towards healing. This is moving out of trauma.

a comfortable position. And to make sure that you're doing this

exercise somewhere, safe somewhere where

you feel, that you can take a few moments for

yourself, and definitely not while you're driving

So we're gonna start with the container activity and then

move into the calm steep place. So

It's good to have a secure place where you can store

memories and issues and and things that made me still some

work. but also maybe you don't need to focus

on them right at this point. So if you think about it,

almost like cleaning up the files on your desk out computer.

So you can just feel a little bit less overwhelmed and focus

a little bit more efficiently. Files are in a safe place

You can access them the next time that you need to.

So to start creating this container, I'd like you to imagine

some kind of container or storage system

that can securely hold as much as you need it to,

for as long as you need it to, until you're ready to work

on it again. So this container can

be something you imagine. It could be something

that's real. We just wanna make sure that

this container has a lid or some type of

secure closure. So that way there's a way to take

things out only when you want to.

Now it's important to note we don't wanna put people in containers,

but we can put memories and feelings and any kind

of situations. So take a moment and

really think about what that container might look like.

Notice how the container feels.

Notice how it feels that it's there for you.

Should you choose to use it or when you choose to use it?

And now If you need to use that container, I want you to

picture allowing whatever needs to go in there

to take its place in there. This can

happen slowly. This can happen quickly.

However, it needs to happen. It's okay. Just

allow the pieces, the memories, the

thoughts, the feelings, the situation, whatever it is.

to just slowly take its place

into that container.

Now, once you feel like the things that need

to be in the container are in there, want you to close

that container. Some people like to

imagine that there's a lock there or some kind

of secured closure beyond just a a

lid. So if you like, you can go ahead and lock that.

And then just imagine it kind of taking its place back into

wherever it needs to be. So this could be a place

that you think of in your home. This could be

an imaginary place, wherever it is.

Just some place that we know that it's there when we need it.

And now we're gonna transition to that calm state

change place. So this is a really

good activity to develop a

couple of ways to feel more calm and secure without

really needing to rely on something or someone external

than us. So one way we can do this to

create this type of place that you can visit

internally whenever you want, kind of like having

an instant mini vacation on demand.

where you might feel a sense of calm or a sense

of well-being. You can imagine a

place that's similar to one that you've experienced

or heard about or read about

And it's best not to use a specific memory with people, though, from

your own history. So Some people like to think of the

beach, or the woods,

mountains, maybe some place they feel cozy.

So just notice this place.

Notice what you hear.

Notice what you smell.

Look around. What do you see?

What do you feel? Maybe

either the temperature, the time of

day. even

down to how you feel in your body as you imagine yourself

in this place.

really just allowing yourself to soak up every single

positive part of this place.

The way it looks, the

things that you hear,

the things that you smell.

The things that you might be able to touch, any textures or

temperature and

really encapsulating what you feel in your

body. as you're in this place

as long as it feels good and

calm and a place of centeredness.

Now knowing that this place is always available to you because

it is within you. It's a place

of your very own making. place that you

can return anytime you need.

Whether it's for quick deep breaths,

returning the center, or maybe even winding

down for the evening. This

place is always here for you.

So this recording is going to finish, but if you'd like to

stay in this place a while longer, you're certainly more than welcome to do

so. And I hope that you'll join me next time on