Brixton Albert joins the show to share the story behind building Performance Golf into a leading online golf training platform. The conversation explores entrepreneurship, habits, time optimization, and how technology is shaping the future of golf improvement.

Jeff Pelizzaro and Justin Bryant sit down with Brixton Albert, founder of Performance Golf, to discuss his journey from Division I college golfer to entrepreneur. Brixton explains how his background in digital marketing helped him scale Performance Golf, the challenges of building a business from scratch, and why helping golfers “love their game” is central to everything they do. The episode also dives into AI in golf instruction, personal health routines, time management, and the life lessons Brixton learned through golf.

In This Episode

1. Brixton’s background as a junior and Division I golfer
2. The early days of building Performance Golf
3. Lessons learned from entrepreneurship and failure
4. Why most golfers struggle with practice and improvement
5. The role of AI in modern golf instruction
6. Designing products for the everyday golfer
7. Time management, health habits, and performance
8. How golf lessons translate into business and life

Guest Bio

Brixton Albert is the founder and CEO of Performance Golf, a leading online golf training and game-improvement company. With a background in Division I golf and digital marketing, Brixton has built Performance Golf into a platform used by golfers worldwide, combining coaching, technology, and innovation to help players improve and enjoy the game.

Instagram

@brixton_pg

@performancegolfzone

@18strongjeff

@18STRONG

@JustinBryant

@theGoodBogey

Links

https://www.performancegolf.com

https://18strong.com

https://1stphorm.com/18strong

Golf Don’t Lie™️ is part of the 18STRONG® network, focused on helping golfers play better, move better, and live healthier lives. New episodes are released bi-monthly, featuring conversations with people who live at the intersection of golf, fitness, and life.

The Golf Don't Live podcast is proudly brought to you by our friends over at firstform.

Different paths, different stories.

This, this, this game tells all.

Golf don't lie.

What's up, everybody?

Welcome back to Golf Don't Lie, where we connect with golfers all over the world trying to learn more about their lives, their experiences, and tell their stories to maybe inspire us in our own personal journeys.

I've got my buddy and co host coming off the DL here.

We got Justin Bryant.

Jb, Sounds like you guys have had a little bit of a rough go this winter.

That's right.

They say beware of the sick golfer.

So I'm definitely coming into this podcast a little worse for the wear.

Battling the flu over in our family.

I'm on the other side of it, but probably don't sound my best, but, you know, it might bring the best out of me for talking with you so.

Well, it's never fun to go through that knock on wood.

We've had.

We've had some pretty good.

I had a pretty good stretch when it comes to the health and stuff like that this winter time, but I know that that can.

That just runs through a house and it can be miserable.

It does.

It's.

Do you got any advice in terms of kind of ramping back up when your body kind of is in that state?

Uh, like, I just was today.

I was like, I gotta go on the walk for the first time and, like, move my body.

And I felt, like, pretty tired after that.

My wife had it, you know, for like, 10 days.

She saw her at the gym, I think, today, or maybe it was yesterday, and she got to work out and, like, still feeling weak.

So how do you kind of build yourself back up when you've been sick like that?

Yeah, I.

Best thing is just to start slow.

I think, you know, what you did was just to get outside and start moving.

Is the key, obviously, making sure that you're getting hydrated and, you know, drinking a lot of water, even drinking some electrolytes or, you know, sprinkle some of that Himalayan sea salt into your water just to get a little bit of.

Of that stuff back in you and don't try to push it too much, you know, especially it's tough because January, obviously, is the time where we all want to kind of reset.

We want to jump back into our workouts, and if you've been on the sidelines for a couple of weeks now, you.

You want to start to get into it.

But if you go with a little too much vigor in those first couple of days that can just knock you back out.

So just start slow, start with the walking.

I'd start with maybe some of the mobility stuff and stretching and just getting the body moving that way.

And then, you know, like, like Kelly, get into the gym.

But start small.

You know, maybe do if you're normally doing, you know, three or four sets, maybe back off a set, back off the weights a little bit.

But it's all about listening to your body and how you feel.

Perfect.

It sounds like our yoga session next week is going to be just in time for me to ease back into it.

That's right, that's right.

We've got, first time ever, we're doing a little 18 strong yoga night at the gym here.

I've got a good friend of mine, Diana Haberberger, who I worked with years ago at a gym that I had in the past.

And she's a yogurt.

She's a yoga expert and a dietitian.

But we were just chatting about, you know, some different things that we can offer to the 18 strong crew.

And I was like, you know, what if we put together a little yoga night for all the local folks and just kind of see how it goes?

We did that back in the day when I was working at my old gym and we had a bunch of hockey players and you know, they're constantly skating and then doing off ice training.

And we put together a night where we brought in a yoga instructor and, and all the guys loved it.

It was something so different than what they normally do.

And most athletes don't take the time to just do something like a yoga session, the use of the weight training.

So it'll be fun.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with yoga.

I know you said you've never done yoga.

Not that I'm aware of.

I mean, no.

So this will be first.

I'm excited to see how it is.

Very low expectations for what my body's going to be able to do, but excited to do it nonetheless.

Well, I think what's going to be fun is we also told all of our guys, you know, if you want, bring your wives, bring whoever.

And so I think this is going to be an opportunity for the wives to make fun of us quite a bit because typically they excel a little bit more in the yoga type of workouts than us males do.

So.

But it'll be, it's going to be a fun night.

You know, guys will get to meet other people's friends and wives and families.

And so I think it's going to be, it's going to be hit.

So we'll see if maybe we do a few more of these in the future.

But yeah, bring your yoga pants, bring your own mat.

And we're going to have a good time.

We're going to see how flexible those hamstrings are.

I think you know the answer to that, Jeff, but we're definitely going to find out.

If only Kelly was coming, we could figure out whose hamstrings were tighter, yours or hers.

But I know that she is.

She's not going to make it.

Let's just say that she's not going to make it.

Hey, how's the, how's the forge coming along?

The forge has been really good so far.

Started the day after New Year, so I always start on January 2nd.

And it's interesting because it's, this is my fifth or sixth year starting it.

For those of you that don't know what the forge is, it's the 40 day forge.

It's something that we started years ago here at 18 strong.

And it's a 40 day kind of a.

It's a fitness challenge to some extent, but it's more of a mental and discipline challenge really, where you've got several different daily activities that you're supposed to do.

And if you don't check off all of those daily activities and you don't get your 40 days in a row, you basically, it's considered a failure.

Or you can start right back up and try to get your 40 days in a row.

And there have been many years where I've forgotten something or failed at something and had to start over.

So so far, so good.

We are, I don't even know what day we're in.

I think they seven or so and it's good.

So the diet's clean, you know, no alcohol.

We've got the workout sessions.

We've.

The, the toughest part still is the cold showers.

It's brutal.

I mean, and it's starting to get cold again here in St. Louis.

So the cold showers every morning.

And again, yeah, there's, there's fitness or there's health benefits to the cold exposure.

One minute in a shower is not going to do a whole lot as far as from the, from the health benefit side, but from the, the mental toughness side of things.

That's where I think the real benefit comes in, is I just, I don't want to do it every single day, but force myself to do it.

And what's, what I think is really cool.

Is last year.

My son and his cousins, they're all, you know, between 15 and 18.

They did it last year and they're doing it again this year, which, I mean, when I was an 18 year old kid, there's no way I was doing anything like that.

So it's cool to see that just kind of like rippling out to those guys.

That's awesome.

And can I ask a personal question, Jeff?

Of course.

Have you ever.

You're the type of guy that shaves in the shower.

Like you shave in your face in the shower?

No.

I know you wear a beer.

Well, I don't really shave.

You don't shave?

It's not a great question for you, but I'm curious razor wise.

You electric or are you kind of old school?

Old school.

You're old school?

Yeah, I've been old school recently.

Got kind of an electric one for Christmas and it's a different feeling, Jeff, I'm not gonna lie.

And this thing had said I could use it in the shower and it kind of blew my mind.

I was like, I, I might have to try this out.

It's like in my new kind of like ritual.

I don't know if I'm gonna do it in a cold shower, but.

Yeah, you know, not golf related, but very, very curious about, about shaving habits.

Jeff.

Doing it in a cold shower seems strange.

I mean, doing an electric razor in the shower just sounds like a terrible idea to me.

But I guess they wouldn't market it that way if you, if you could do it that way.

Now I try it out.

I am very staunch in the fact that I, when I do shave, I shave after the shower.

So the face is warm from the heat.

Yeah.

When we were in college, my buddy had a, he had a shaving cream warmer.

One of my roommates.

Wow.

Yeah, like, you know, the old school Gillette can.

But it sat in this little warmer.

So you turn that on when you got in the shower.

By the time you got out, it was nice and warm and foamy.

It was, it was, yeah.

Have you ever had like a straight edge old school, like barbershop shave?

No, I haven't.

I haven't either, but that's kind of a dream of mine.

I know, I'd like to do that too.

And what I want to do is really grow my beard out big, you know, maybe through the winter, be a Grizzly Adams kind of, and then go in and get the barbershop shave.

I think that would be, that'd be kind of cool.

Well, maybe we'll add it to our bucket list for 20, 26, I think.

So.

Another thing that I wanted to talk a little bit about is I've been implementing a lot of kettlebells lately in my training, and next time you get back into the gym, we're gonna start putting a little bit more kettlebell work into some of the stuff we do.

I know we did it in a couple of smash sessions.

I think you were there for one of them.

But, yeah, just totally different.

I. I have never really programmed a whole lot of kettlebells into the workouts, and obviously, we have access to them here, so it's been fun to just play around.

I'm going through a training program that somebody else designed for me just for something different.

And I really like just the mix of athleticism and movements that you can do with the kettlebell that's just a little different than your traditional strength training.

So we might even be thinking about, you know, putting some things into the 18 strong online platform that involves a kettlebell program.

Just nice.

I had a buddy of mine that I worked with, and he swore by the kettlebell that was like, his routine is like, I think he had three, maybe three different kettlebell weights at home.

And, like, that's what he did, because to your point, he's like, you can squat, you can push, you can do, like, so many different exercises with them.

Yeah, they're super versatile, and you can do a lot of different compound movements.

You can mix a couple exercises together.

So it's great for somebody that doesn't have a whole lot of space, doesn't have a whole lot of time.

And that's really what I'm looking at, is how can we kind of make some much more efficient workouts for somebody that doesn't have a full gym setup or even a much of a home setup, but if they could get, you know, two, three different weights of kettlebells, you know, can we put something together that takes, you know, 20 to 40 minutes with where, you know, like, I can get in and out, I can get a great workout in.

And again, we talked a lot about, you know, reclaiming this athleticism.

When you get in your.

In your 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond, we tend to lose a little bit of that athleticism that we naturally had as we were younger.

And the only way to make sure that we hold onto that or bring some of that back is we have to do more athletic movements and things like that.

So there's just some fun ways to implement that in a safe manner without doing crazy box Jumps and, you know, plow metrics and stuff like that.

So I love that.

Yeah, I got another personal one based off of weights.

So a lot of.

There's a lot of talk going on in our household about strength, you know, and my 8 year old love him to death.

A lot of athletic abilities.

Very weak on the push ups.

Jeff.

You know, that's kind of like my.

He's.

He's kind of being mean on his brother.

I'm kind of like a little old school.

I'm like, all right, you need to give me 10 pushups.

And I was watching him do push ups the other night and I was like, hey, buddy, we have got to work on this.

So not a parenting question here, but let's just talk a little like strength for youth.

What should you be doing if you want to get a little stronger if you're a kid?

Because he thinks he's very strong.

All right, what's the push ups?

Tell me otherwise, though.

First of all, I want a video of your push up and his pushup.

Dumb.

Let's see.

I'll send that to you tonight.

Let's see both of those.

But also, push ups are one of the hardest things for kids just because their upper body strength is not really there.

But as you start to work into some of those things, the best thing to do is kind of get them into body weight positions.

So like a plank position where they're in that push up position.

And you can work on even just having him slowly try to lower himself all the way to the ground.

Or you can have them do the on the knees push ups and make those.

Just make things a little bit easier when you're having them do those and focus on the range of motion.

So tell them it's not about doing the regular style push up and doing 10, not great ones, do 10 of them on your knees, but you have to get your chest all the way to the floor kind of a thing.

But I mean, also at 8 years old, I know I sound.

They're still developing.

I sound harsh.

Yeah, I mean, you're just, you know, just a.

Such a ruler in your house.

Just cracking the whip when you got the three boys.

And the oldest is kind of, you know, playing some as, you know, as he should to some extent, Jeff.

But, you know, I have to kind of let the law around the house know that that behavior is not okay.

And so his punishment is a tease of let me see some push ups.

And it was eye opening watching him do it.

So.

Okay, maybe, maybe I'll back off of the push ups for now and maybe, maybe plank will be.

Plank would be a good one.

Plank?

Yeah, Plank in that straight arm position would be great.

Yeah.

But I agree, sometimes you gotta, you gotta let them know, like, hey, you're not the top dog around here and you don't, you're not as.

That's right, you're not as good as you think you are.

Gotta give the younger brother some hope, too.

But I will say that with, with kiddos especially, you know, like before the age of 10 and even as they get into like the early, you know, 11, 12, 13, like, it's so important to start with the body weight stuff first before we start to implement the, you know, any kind of weights.

Just because you want to work on just the movement patterns, the squatting, the lunging, the, the push ups, you know, like, not that they're going to be doing pull ups, but even getting them to do like some hangs and you know, even help them get up into that chin up position where their, their chin's above the bar and kind of hang there, those are some of the greatest ways to just start to implement, you know, good form importance on how, you know, feeling what those positions are and then eventually getting them into doing some of the weight training.

Yeah, yeah.

It's funny because they are like showing an interest.

They're like, we want to work out and like lift some weights.

And I'm like, like, yeah, like, let's figure out some, some stuff that you can do that's just your body weight.

So I'll have to figure out a little plan.

Yeah, and sometimes they can do with you.

Sometimes then mixing in, like giving them some lightweights where they can, you know, give them some curls and stuff like, so they feel like they're.

That's what they want.

Lines on their body.

Yeah, that's what they want to do.

Yeah, right.

They want to look like the superheroes, but they want to see themselves, you know, curling the weights and doing some of the presses.

And there's nothing wrong with, with letting them do that so they can kind of get the feel of that too, because that's the exciting part for them.

But then mix in like the body weight stuff.

So, you know, it's, it's not like we have to educate them on why we're doing everything.

Just let them have some fun, do a couple things that, that are good for them movement wise and.

Yeah, just, just try to keep the energy up and let them enjoy it.

For sure.

Yeah.

All right, enough about us and our lack of Strength and our punishing our kids.

Let's get into this week's guest who this was a fascinating interview with Brixton Albert from Performance Golf.

So Brixton is.

He started his company, I mean, when he was relatively young and has built this into an incredible online training program.

And most of you, if you're a golfer, you've had a Performance Golf ad come across your feed at some point.

It was either Rocco Mediate or Nick Faldo or Martin Chuck.

All of these different videos that you see of these coaches, you know, talking about their different courses, their products, those are all these days, most of them are on the performance golf platform.

Bricks and Vic built this thing from scratch, really, with no background in.

In the golf online coaching arena to I believe it's $100 million company, which is crazy.

But what was really cool, and this is why I love this show so much.

And the platform that.

That we're.

We've moved to with this show is, you know, being able to talk about not just golf itself, but, you know, him building this company and all of the struggles and failures and successes he.

He has had there.

And then also we get into things like habits and we do get into practice and what, you know, what golfers do and don't do well.

And really how he's just helping people love their game, which is really what they want to do.

They want to help people learn to love their game.

Really cool.

Yeah, no, I remember.

I've heard you talk about it.

I'm familiar a little bit with Performance Golf.

Definitely want to connect with him in the PGA show in the coming weeks.

So kind of excited to learn more about him and the company.

Yeah.

And I've seen that recently he's been doing a lot more on social media, too.

So go over and check him out over on social media.

We'll have that linked up in the show.

Notes for his handle and everything.

But it's fun to see him starting to kind of get in front of the camera a little bit and having some fun.

I.

He was on with the DOD King recently, you know, doing some different trick shots and going out on the course and playing.

And he really is.

He said he's really wanting to get into more of helping other people, not just in the world of golf, but also just, you know, obviously he's a very successful guy and mentoring is one of the things that he is really excited about doing, of helping share some of his lessons, some of his success and failures and in the future with other young business owners and other people.

That want to just really kind of optimize a lot of different things.

I was telling you.

We get into some chats about, you know, him as a kid and how he just had a little bit of a different mindset as a kid of like, understanding that he wanted to grasp as much of his time here as possible, which is like, what, what kid like talks about that?

But so it was really neat to get his mindset and how he's really trying to optimize most of his life.

So we get into his routines and everything like that too.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So I think you guys are going to really enjoy this episode with Brixton.

Definitely.

Go check out performancegolf.com you'll learn so much more about the platform.

He alludes to some of the things that they are going to have coming out with AI.

So there's so much to be had from know the world of golf and what they're doing over there.

It's going to be fun to see them over the next couple years.

It'll be fun if you get a chance to connect with him when you're at the PGA show.

And then just quick reminder for everybody out there listening, don't forget, once a month we are going to be announcing our first form Golfer of the Month.

So in order to get into that drawing, all you have to do is go to firstform.com 18strong and if you purchase something through that link, you will be automatically entered into the first form Golfer Prize drawing.

And we will do that once a month where you'll be getting a first form gift card and some 18 strong swag along with that.

So don't forget to go over there.

All right, jb, we're going to jump into our chat with Bricks and Albert.

We'll see you guys next week.

Play more golf, live more life.

Bricks and Albert, welcome to Golf don't lie.

Thanks for being here, Jeff.

Appreciate you having me looking forward to today.

Yeah, I'm a little jealous looking at your screen with the sunshine and I think that's a boat in the background and I'm looking out my window at some cold, snowy slush.

So you're down in Fort Lauderdale, right?

I am, yeah.

Winters are beautiful times down here.

The boat is not mine, but fortunate to kind of live near a lot of these boats.

So it's a, a cool reminder, especially this time of the year with the nice weather.

Are you getting a chance to get out and play quite a bit?

I know you're a very busy man.

Yeah, I, I do Try to play a little bit more.

I was just at Pebble Beach a week and a half ago playing the Pebble Beach Tailor Made Invitational.

So six days of golf at pebble beach was a lot of fun.

But I do try to play, you know, probably like three to five times a month.

So I definitely play a little bit.

How about you?

I haven't played lately.

Obviously with the weather here, when it is nice out, we try to.

We have a group that we call tfl the Friday morning, the Friday loop.

Nice.

We've got about 30 to 50 guys that kind of rotate through every Friday morning nine holes at our local muni.

We get out walking, walk nine and then everybody's back to work by, you know, we, we tee off between like 6 o', clock, 7am and then everybody gets their Friday started.

Right.

You know what?

I love the nine hole thing.

Like honestly, people say, do you want to play?

I'm like, hey, I'm more of like a 6 to like 12 hole guy.

So the 9 is great.

18 is like, okay, this is going to be a commitment.

So I can appreciate the nine holes.

Yeah, it's, it's hard to take that much time.

I don't know.

Do you have kids?

You have family?

I don't, but just, you know, with the business it is hard to like, you know, the factor in the drive, the drive home, the traffic, potentially depending on when you leave and you know, depending how fast play moves.

I think six to 12 holes is my ideal situation.

Yeah, nine or 18 can be an all day commitment.

So yeah, we've loved that.

We've got a bunch of guys in our group.

You know, we all have jobs, we've got kids, we're getting up early and it's perfect.

So I'm right there with you with awesome holes.

Love it for sure.

So I want to know a little bit about your background performance.

Golf is, has become a huge name in the world of golf and you're a rather young dude.

I'm very curious how you decided to.

I know you play Division 1 golf, so I want to hear a little bit about your golf background.

And then, and then when did you decide that you wanted to create this platform?

And is this what you envisioned when you first started out?

Yeah, a number of great questions there.

So I grew up like most kids.

And I, I spent A lot of time as a junior golfer, I played Division 1 golf in college.

My, my goal was always to play on the PGA Tour, but as many know, that is very, very, very difficult to do.

So I wasn't quite good enough.

But I did have a pretty nice, you know, let's just say junior and like amateur golf career.

And then from there I started working in digital marketing and, and I really learned the ropes on how a lot of, you know, money could be potentially made online.

And I saw this intersection between my passion for golf, the digital marketing acumen that I was developing.

And you know, a friend actually said, hey, why don't you start a golf company?

And at the time I think I'm like 25 years old, I'm not really spending a lot of money on golf.

So for about three years I was like, you know what, I don't think I would spend money on golf.

I'm just going to assume no one else spends money on golf, which was a huge mistake waiting those three years.

But then one day I just said, let's just start this golf business.

And that's kind of how it got started.

But at first I was really looking at it from my lens of like, imagine like a younger adult that doesn't really spend a lot on golf.

So I just thought the market didn't exist.

But what I realized are there's obviously a lot of people that are golf fanatics and I'm glad I started, you know, but I did hesitate for three years thinking I was maybe the customer when I really wasn't.

What, so you said you started in the digital marketing world.

I'm very curious because I'm, I just kind of geek out on a lot of that stuff.

Yeah.

Who were you working with or what, what were you working on at that time?

I worked for a marketing automation platform and I would do, essentially I would consult with CEOs and you know, C suite members of 50, 50 million dollar plus E commerce companies.

So I would go in and I would look at their digital marketing and I would build out a game plan on how they could communicate with their customers in a smarter way to really increase lifetime value and also drive more acquisition.

And I saw how I was creating a lot of, you know, really nice success for these companies, you know, making them tens of millions of more dollars.

And then I finally started saying, well, like, why don't I do this myself?

You know, like, I'm starting to learn this.

So I, I spent a good 10 years really cutting my teeth in that E commerce online retail Space.

And then I started to kind of merge the golf and that together, if that helps.

Yeah, absolutely.

So where did you play golf yourself?

I played at Radford University, so it's in the Big South Conference.

So, like, you know, when I was a freshman, Dustin Johnson was a senior.

We would play schools like Coastal Carolina, Charleston, Southern Liberty.

And, you know, I got to college thinking I was going to be really good.

I was the best golfer in my area, you know, and then I got the college.

I'm like, okay, well, everyone's the best golfer in their area, and everyone is a lot better than I thought.

So it was a little bit that reality check of, wow, like, people are really, really good.

But, yeah, I was at Radford for a couple years and, you know, played okay, but it was a good reality check with how good everyone is at the game.

So never.

Never made it onto even trying many tours or anything like that.

Just kind of went straight into the business world.

No, but, like, two guys at my school are now on tour, which is pretty cool.

Like, it's cool to, like, reflect back and look at guys that I was playing with in junior tournaments to think, you know, like, how they kept just getting better and better and better.

I think a lot of people don't realize, like, to get on tour, you need to be really good, but then you need to be able to be like a plus four and get better, like, 10 years in a row.

Yeah.

And it's just hard to get better once you get to that level, because they're just small gains.

So the guys that make it have a lot of respect for.

But, yeah, I didn't quite make it.

I did play a couple US amateurs, you know, had a little bit of a taste of success, but was not going to make a living, you know, playing golf.

So when you finally did decide, all right, I'm going to do this golf thing, this golf business.

Yeah.

I mean, where do you even start at that point?

Is this something where you're bootstrapping it?

Do you realize, like, hey, this is going to take some dollars.

I got to go find some funding?

What did that look like right out of the gate?

I think that's the hardest thing for most people that are thinking about starting a business.

The first time you do it, you're kind of looking at a blank slate, and you're like, where in the heck do I start?

And I think that was part of the reason why I paused for three years and didn't get started.

But I finally had that moment in my life where I kind of uncovered my personal why.

And once I uncovered that, it just gave me the momentum to say, hey, let's just start this thing and figure it out.

But I was a very slow starter.

I was not great with technology and there were so many little things to figure out.

It took me about seven months, Jeff, from when I had the idea to actually getting it live, to being able to sell product.

I mean, and that goes to setting up the site, you know, setting up the sales funnels, shooting the content, editing the content, trying to figure all that out, find the golf pro.

So that took me seven months.

And it was a lot of, gosh, a lot of banging my head against the wall.

First time doing it, trying to solve problems.

I was working a full time job, took about $100,000 of my own money to get this off the ground.

Fortunately, I had a pretty good job.

So I self funded it.

I never took out any outside funding, but it was seven months of I have no idea what the heck I'm doing.

I think the analogy I would give is if you don't speak another language, and I just threw you in another country that only spoke that language and said, go figure everything out.

That's what it was, you know, the first six, seven months.

So you're working a full time job, you're putting this together.

Who, what was the first product that you ended up selling?

First coach that you, that you brought on?

Yeah, so there was a coach that I actually started this with.

And the first year we tried to create a business relationship in full transparency.

It just didn't work out.

But we got a product off the ground and it started to sell.

The problem was we kind of went down this rabbit hole, then the whole relationship didn't work.

So then the next year I found another golf pro and unfortunately that guy, I worked with him for a full year.

I kind of got this off the ground.

We were starting to sell and what we were doing is we were selling like online videos at the time.

So imagine like a course to fix your slice or a course to hit the ball longer.

So I'm working with this second golf pro.

Year two into this operation of doing this now, and unfortunately he passed away.

Oh no.

So the first year was starting, relationship not working.

Next guy, full year with him passed away, unfortunately.

But I did see that there was this market, like people would actually buy this stuff.

I think I was doing maybe 30 to 40,000amonth in sales and I was making a couple grand a month, like just a little better than break even.

So then I realized, hey, I gotta go out and I gotta find a couple golf pros.

I can't just be relying on one guy.

And the first golf instructor I worked with is a guy by the name of Eric Cogorno.

Have you heard of Eric before?

Absolutely, yeah.

So when I met eric, Eric launched 200 YouTube videos.

At the time, not one of his videos have more than 50 views.

But I just saw something within him where I'm like, man, this guy's good on camera, but he's kind of fake.

Figuring the online space out, what if I came in, had him shoot the videos and I just kind of ran the rest of the operation and we launched a course to fix a golfer slice.

That course blew up.

We did about $10 million in sales on that course over the next like two or so years.

And I would say that's really what got the business going.

A course to help the average guy fix their slice.

And that was the initial start, I would say a performance golf.

And so it starts with that one course.

I mean, now I was just scrolling through performance golf.

And you have, I mean, some of the biggest names of coaches on there.

You've got so many different products.

You've got, you know, not just digital products, but you're also selling equipment, things like that.

So when did you and Eric launch that product?

What year was that?

So we would have launched that.

I convinced Eric.

I'm like, eric, why don't we just do a test video shoot?

And I'm like, fly down to Florida.

He's like, hey, I'm not going to fly.

I'll drive.

So he literally drove down 20 hours to shoot 15 videos of me as a test run.

And he's like, dude, I like you.

You're pretty cool to work with.

Then we kind of launched a course.

Okay.

And then that really took off.

And then when that took off, I then approached a Golf Digest top hundred teacher and he kind of saw a little bit of what we were doing.

And then I was able to do the same thing with him.

And then once I got him, then I was able to find a couple these bigger name guys.

It's kind of like once you find that one guy that starts to like working with you, it kind of opens up some other doors that I was very grateful for.

So the first three years we really just focused on selling these online courses.

And, you know, we really started to grow like people.

What I just found was the average golfer wants to Find an easier way to get better.

And these courses kind of provided a step by step way where they could do it versus trying to piece together a million pieces of advice.

What their friends were saying, what the Golf Channel was saying, what YouTube saying.

We kind of made these courses that were very sequential to learn, to kind of learn through.

Yeah, I think that that is, especially now we're so inundated with TikTok videos, Instagram videos, YouTube videos.

And I know that that's a huge passion of yours is, is helping guys and girls learn how to practice better.

Right.

Learn how to actually sequence how they're practicing so they can ultimately.

I love your.

The phrase you guys use.

Love their game so they can get better and love their game.

I think there's two emotions in golf.

You know, there's the emotion when you're out there and you're like, let's just quickly get this over with.

You know, you're hitting that shot, you're nervous, or there's that emotional.

Let's just really soak this in.

I think we both have been on.

All golfers have been on both sides of the reality.

And the loving side is way more fun if we're just being honest.

Oh, for sure, for sure.

Yeah.

So what do you see is one of the biggest things that keeps most of us from learning how to practice properly or just, you know, it's constant repetition.

But a lot of times we're never getting better with that repetition.

Yeah, I think I look at the golf industry as being beautiful because you think, I mean, golf is growing really fast right now.

The problem is there's just, there's so much out there.

It's almost like someone coming to you and saying, hey, I've got this problem.

And then you're the doctor and you say, well, you know what, I got this great 84,000 page book.

And you know what?

I'm going to give it to you.

And your answer is somewhere within there.

You know, I don't know about you, but it would be hard to find that answer.

Is that answer on page 28?

Do I have to read to chapter 94?

And that's kind of what the golf industry is like.

And golf is the one game where you can practice and get worse.

Like if I said to you, go shoot a basketball, you're probably going to figure it out.

But golf, it's easy to form the wrong habits.

So I think that's one of the big challenges in the golf space today.

There's so much info, which is beautiful, but it's also difficult to navigate through without the right information for you, you know?

Yeah, absolutely, because we'll.

We'll find one video.

It's like, well, I kind of do that, so maybe I need to try that fix.

But then you see another video kind of talking about the same thing.

Whereas when you put together a sequence of videos like you guys are, you're able to kind of go from step one to step seven in sequential order.

How do you.

So when you're working with these pros.

Sure.

And obviously they're.

They're some of the best of the best.

Right.

So they've worked with so many people.

But golf, obviously, everybody's swing is a little bit different.

Yeah, everybody's got their own nuances.

When you're selling a product, you know, one to many, how do you really make sure that you're hitting those points where people, even though they.

They love getting the individual instruction, you know, they need some individual help.

But this is a course that you also have to build for everybody to scale it.

Yeah, well, that's the cool thing.

Like, you know, you look at.

We started making these courses, and the goal with these courses was, let's just help you fix your one issue.

You think about golf like, we all have a couple different things that, you know, plague us.

And often every golfer has that one ball flight, you know, like, that they're just trying to cut down on and eliminate.

And, you know, for us, it was really fixing a lot of golfers sl a slice.

So we started with that.

But the whole.

The way the platform now has evolved is imagine you would join, you would get that great video or two to fix your slice.

But then from there, you can upload a video of our.

Of your swing, and our AI will analyze your swing and.

And say, hey, Jeff, you got these five swing issues, but this is the one you should start with first.

Okay.

And it ties in the coach.

So the whole goal is kind of get you that first win, get you going.

It's like, you know, you just joined a gym for the first time.

Let's get you in there and knock off that first £10 and get you being like, wow, okay, I'm feeling good about myself.

And then the whole program kind of evolves with you, based on your learning style and based on your swing to get more and more customized kind of as you use it.

That's what I was going to ask you with the AI stuff that's just kind of coming at us so quickly.

Obviously, you're tied into the technology world.

How do you See that playing out even further in the future.

I mean, just to have it be able to analyze our swing is incredible and to give us feedback on that.

But what are some of the other things maybe you guys are already starting to implement that you found to be super cool and helpful?

And where do you even see this going for golf instruction in general?

Yeah, I think, I think I could be a really cool way to help golfers practice better.

I think at the end of the day, like if I can help you identify your swing issues.

I think at the end of the day, AI is showing you things that are wrong with your swing.

The key though is that next layer and saying, hey, like you got these four things wrong.

Here's how you fix the most important thing first.

I found in golf, like we all have swing issues, but if you don't work on the most important one of your swing issues, you end up manipulating other variables in your swing which can actually hurt you sometimes your fourth swing flaw is actually helping you.

And if you fix that one first, it can hurt three other things.

So really finding that one thing I think is where AI is going to really have to up level.

And that's one of the things that we're really focused on.

Where do I see AI going?

I mean, our, our vision is I want to create the world's smartest platform.

So you play a round of golf, you hit seven shots to the right, you're walking off that golf course and that right miss is in your head.

How can we leverage that in real time to fix that for you?

You play a round of golf, you chili dip four chips, you're not feeling good about your chipping, your pain, your emotions at an all time high over those chunks that just made you shoot 94 when you could have shot 86.

So I think it's about using what you're doing to serve up timely things for you that are going to fix things that are hurting your game.

And that's really how I'm looking at it.

How can you use this AI to be super smart and timely to get you the right information on the right thing when you really need it the most?

Interesting.

Yeah, it's just amazing how quickly all of that is evolving and just the different ways we're already implementing it.

But that would be incredible to be able so quickly in real time.

AI is moving fast.

I mean, how long ago would you say you started adopting AI just on like a weekly or daily basis?

I'd say probably maybe six months ago or so.

Just kind of really digging into just mostly chatgpt, you know, kind of inquiries and learning different things.

And it's definitely helped even with some of the podcast production things like that, show notes, you know, like just simplifying a lot of things.

But I also am very weary of or leery of using it too much and not using my brain quite as much.

You know, just kind of getting lazy with that.

I think it's great for ideation, getting ideas, you know, but you do have to be careful with it, so I can understand that.

Yeah, I find myself kind of leaning on it.

Like, that's something that I could just sit and think about and come up with on my own.

But it's quicker.

AI is quicker.

So I try to.

You like the hard work.

Okay, I respect that.

Sometimes you got to work for it.

Well, I just know that, you know, in 20 years when my brain's not working quite as well and just like, I can't remember phone numbers because I have a cell phone that keeps it all, you know, it's just one of those things that.

And I tell my kids, like, hey, in the future, the people that can still think for themselves are going to have an edge.

So don't use AI for every question or query that you have.

Totally.

I respect that.

So what have been some of the biggest challenges in building this company?

Because, you know, I mean, you've done an incredible job in a short period of time to first of all bring in so many great coaches, but also just from the.

The digital technology platform and the reach that you have now, it's.

I'm fascinated by it.

Yeah.

I mean, I would say there's been a lot of challenges.

I mean, we.

So we start in the digital space, and then we shifted to having digital, but also then doing game improvement clubs.

So we saw a pretty big gap in the market a couple years ago, where I think there's some great brands out there that create clubs.

Like, I think the Titleist, the taylormades.

I think they're.

I think they're phenomenal.

Like, I have nothing but love for them.

But I do think sometimes their clubs are really geared for more of, like the Tour Pro.

Like, that's kind of who they build them for oftentimes.

And you're seeing a little more of a shift, I think, from that in recent years.

But you look at the average guy, Jeff, you know, hitting a three wood off the ground, it's not an easy club to hit.

It's not a club that I'm hitting either.

And I'm like, wow, this is A simple club to hit.

And if I'm having that issue as a scratch golfer swinging 112 miles per hour, I'm thinking of the 74 year old guy that's only swinging 80 miles an hour.

It's a lot harder for him.

So we saw this gap in the market where there are just a few clubs in the bag that are hard to hit.

So we started to attack that market.

So really just trying to figure all that out, like how to make those clubs the right way, how to manufacture them, how to sell them.

I mean, there was a huge learning curve in that process.

But I brought on some really good people to help me.

My chief product officer spent 20 years at Titleist studying under Bob Voke and Scotty Cameron.

And when he came here, you know, I said, hey, we're not trying to be like Titleist, who I love.

I want to be disruptive.

I want to create a club that my dad, who's a 20 handicap, I want to be able to throw him in a divot and have him hit a hybrid and be able to hit it out of that divot.

How do we do that?

And he started talking about, well, there's a way to like design these clubs where you can stack like six or seven features that all focus on solid contact.

And he started taking me through this and I'm like, no one else in the market's really talking about this.

So I think one of those things at first was like really figuring out how do you sell golf clubs and how do you do it in a way that's different.

And we did that by really focusing on the average golfer and, and making clubs that are really just built for them.

So that was one of the initial challenges that I would start with.

And I mean, so that process, you're.

You've got somebody to come and help you design that, then you got to figure out manufacturing.

And I mean, I would imagine all of those steps you had somebody to help guide you through those processes too.

Well, it was a lot of figuring it out.

Like, I kind of like I would equate building a business to, you're starting on the shore and I, you have to swim out there 100 miles deep and you get the mile one.

You know, you start to hit some rip currents, kind of got to figure it out.

You get the mile four and then it's four hours later and you got storms coming in that day.

Then you get out the mile six and you got the great whites.

So you're getting attacked from all these different angles and there Wasn't just someone saying, hey Bricks, just do this next, do this, do this.

Let me just guide you perfectly around that gray white.

So I think one of the other challenges is just realizing like before you had a job where you didn't have to solve a lot of problems.

Now I've got a business where I got to solve like 10 problems a day.

What kind of systems, processes, even personal habits have, have helped you kind of.

I mean you're a, you're a.

How old are you?

How old do you think I am?

Take a guess.

I'm going to say 31.

That's kind of.

I'm 38, so we're approaching 40 here.

Awesome.

I mean you're, you're a very young, fit looking guy and.

But thank you.

But it seems like you figured out a lot.

Obviously there's the challenges and you work your way through those.

But what are some of the lessons that you've had to learn and implement in your own personal lives?

We talk a lot just about habits and systems and fitness and all of that here at 18 strong.

And I'm sure you've got a lot of those things that have been dialed in.

So.

I've been obsessed with what I call time hacking ever since I was born.

I mean, I remember being four years old and I remember crying to my mom saying mom, life's going to go so fast.

I don't want this to go so fast.

I just remember being four thinking like this is such a cool opportunity to be able to live and go out and create an impact and do something.

But at a young age I realized time's going to go fast.

So when I graduated college, I actually turned my life into a 10 year social study to see if I could do in 10 years would most do in 40.

And I just, you know, I documented everything.

I ran tons of crazy experiments.

You know, I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but I actually worked my full time job until my, my side business reached 30 million in annual sales.

Oh my gosh.

Because I really wanted to test myself to see if I go all out, what can I accomplish?

Can I create systems, smarter ways to do things?

So when someone says five years, can I figure out a way to do it in five months?

So I've always been obsessed with that.

So I've looked for hacks, I've tested everything, man.

You know, I mean, what are things that I personally do?

I would say I'm good at time management.

I've got my day pretty structured out from how I do Things for my own personal health to how I outsource a number of things, you know, to try to be smarter.

I mean, I'm happy to go into a couple if that would help.

But I mean, I'm looking at kind of everything that I'm doing.

Trying to optimize almost every minute of the day to really build this golf company as best as I can while trying to stay healthy and kind of show up the way that I want to show up in the world.

Yeah, I would love for you to kind of roll through a little bit of what, what your day looks like and what some of those systems and hacks are.

Yeah, I mean, I'll give you some of the top ones.

So I, I wake up in the morning, I jump on zone two cardio within 10 minutes of waking up.

I do 35 minutes of that.

I then hop in my cold plunge for three minutes.

I then get some sunlight in my eyes.

I then go upstairs in my house, I put on these hyperice leggings, I whip out my laptop for two to three hours.

I do my deep, creative work.

I then fit in a workout.

One of my hacks is I used to drive everywhere.

I'm so busy, so I actually kind of found a guy that's like my personal Uber that drives me everywhere.

So whenever I drive somewhere I can work and not focus on driving.

You know, I do the sauna, I do the red light.

So I got all these like built in habits.

I hired someone eight years ago to cook meals for me.

I know that sounds bougie, but like at the end of the day, you can find someone that cooks meals for you that's actually cheaper than buying them yourself and eating out.

So a lot of health habits that I kind of stack around my day because what I found is without that foundation for health, I'm not going to operate where I need to operate from a business standpoint.

And if I'm doing all this myself, guess what?

I'm not going to have time to put into the business.

So those are some of the things that I would say I do on a daily basis.

That's incredible.

We've had a couple conversations just recently talking about how when you don't take care of yourself first, you can take care of others for a while.

But eventually that all that all comes back to you not being able to do what you want to do, perform the way you want to perform, show up the way you want to show up.

So I love that you put so much emphasis.

It's like we hear about LeBron James and all these professional athletes, it's the same exact thing, right?

You're putting the time and effort and money into you and yourself.

And ultimately you're the tool that's creating this huge company and the life that you want to live.

I love that.

And it's so funny.

I would say about half the people I know, they look at what I do and they're like, dude, you're nuts.

And then the other half are just like you.

They're like, hey, health is where it's at.

You got to do these things because you, because you experience them yourself and you realize, man, like, you know, it does feel good to get really good sleep.

It does feel good to like have that extra energy so I can be extra creative for the work I'm doing today.

So I think a lot of people are going this way.

I know you guys do a lot with fitness, but at the end of the day, if you feel, feel good, being able to perform 15 to 20% better when you're an entrepreneur is so important.

I want to hear more about you being a young kid because I have, I have a 12 year old son and from the time he was probably seven or eight, he has said he, he doesn't want to get older.

He, because he, and he's kind of what you just described.

Like he loves just doing kid things.

He loves being outside.

He has a flip phone because he doesn't want a regular phone where he can get distracted with all these other things.

And so when you said that, you know, you, you didn't want life to go by too fast, that just kind of struck me.

Give me some other examples of, from when you're a child that you know, you, you recognize that you want to take in as much as you can.

It kind of gave me chills what you said there.

And I just love the path that he's on because when you think about the world today, there's so many distractions and you can just be ahead of 90% of people if you can find a way to not get distracted.

So I love the foundation your 12 year old son has.

I would say some examples for me were, I mean, I was always just focused on what I was trying to achieve.

I remember when I was 16, I could get my license and I told my parents now this would be a distraction.

I'm in peak golf season right now.

We're going to focus on golf, we're going to get through golf, then I'll focus on my license.

I think that's one example I mean, I remember in high school, everyone's like, I can't wait for college.

And I'm thinking, like, college.

I'm.

I'm so fortunate right now to be chasing my dream to try to be a professional golfer.

This is exactly where I would want to be.

Why would I want this time to go fast?

Wow.

So it was kind of things like that.

But it was also, you know, I would say I had and really the big reason why I started performance golf.

I was fortunate, Jeff, to not have a lot of people in my life pass away.

I just, you know, I didn't experience a lot of death, and I talked about starting pg, Starting performance golf, and then someone passed away.

Okay.

And that anchored me back to that moment as a kid of, wow, life's gonna go fast.

Wouldn't it be a shame to live it and never reach your full potential?

And when that person passed the very next day, I went from talking about performance golf for three years to starting wow, because it kind of anchored me back to that moment of life is gonna fly, and let's try to do something that we love that could maybe make an impact.

You know, that's such a profound statement.

I mean, we constantly are on this roller coaster of just kind of doing the same thing, or we can be and get stuck in the same daily tasks and stopping and taking a second to remember those exact things.

What do you think you made your son?

I think that's very rare in kids these days, and I love hearing that because so many kids are, like, glued to their phones.

And, I mean, when you start doing that as a young kid, it's kind of hard to shift out of that.

I could imagine.

But, like, what do you think made him get to that point where he has that thought process?

You know what?

He's such a cool kid.

He.

When he goes into something, he dives, like, all the way in.

So for a long time, he was really into, like, space and science stuff.

In fact, we started a little YouTube channel of him talking about all the things he was learning, right?

And so then he moved from that.

He went into dinosaurs, and from.

From dinosaurs, he went into learning about birds.

And so now he's like this.

This little expert bird watcher.

So we started an Instagram channel called Grant the Birdman.

And he and I go out, and it's the way that we hang out, right?

Like, we.

He's not a sports guy, so we get to go and just hang out.

I take my phone and record stuff, and then we.

We throw videos of him.

You Know, just kind of picking out and showing all these different things about birds.

It's awesome.

So he loves, he loves the experience.

He just loves to be out learning about things.

In fact, he's not the, he's not the greatest student because he kind of sees school as like, taking away from him, wanting to do the things that he really wants to do.

That I think that's good in a way, though, because, I mean, I remember, like, one of the most impactful moments for me was when I was in grad school.

I went to grad school for a year.

I could play golf an extra year.

And I remember being in grad school and I went to the University of Tampa, which is a decent school, but I mean, obviously there's more pronounced, you know, like really, like really good schools that are better than Tampa.

And I remember being there and I was like, man, a lot of these kids are better at school than me.

They're book smart.

They're really smart.

And I actually dropped out of grad school and it was one of the best things I ever did.

And realizing these kids were smarter was so good for me because it taught me, you know what?

I got to find the different path.

Yeah, I think that's exactly it.

Like, and it's, you know, I think he's, he's a very intelligent kid and I'm sure, like, you like super, super smart, intelligent, but not like, that's not his thing.

He doesn't want to learn the, the stuff that you're telling him to learn.

He wants to go learn the stuff that he wants to learn.

So that's cool.

Yeah, I think going against the grain is so, you know, it's just one of those things that, like, everyone goes this way.

You have to be willing to go the other way sometimes.

And I think if you can develop that at a young age, it's very helpful.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we'll be right back.

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Okay, let's get back to the show.

So we were talking a little bit before we even started recording that, you know, this show, Golf Don't Lie is really about how golf and life tie together.

What, what are some things that maybe you took from your golf career and your background in golf that have maybe helped you in your business endeavors and then maybe vice versa?

What are things from, from the business world that possibly have bleed bled into your, your golf game, if any?

Yeah, I mean, I love that theme.

I'll give a couple things here quickly.

When I was a kid, I played a lot of junior golf tournaments.

Had some great memories with my dad taking me to these tournaments.

And there were so many times I missed qualifying by a shot.

And I was, you know, I was this competitive kid.

I was hungry.

I'm complaining to my dad the whole way home because I mean, I wanted it so bad.

Like my parents had to rein me in and be like, hey, cool it.

Like, you're getting, you're too fiery, you know, out there a little bit.

But I think my, I remember my dad used to always say to me, like, hey, this is going to be a lesson in the future.

And that was the last thing I ever wanted to hear.

When I missed qualifying by shot, it honestly made me upset at my dad, you know, but all those times I came short, guess what happened after I came short.

I went back to the drawing board the next couple weeks and I started to put together a plan on how I'm going to overcome that next time, you know.

And you know, it makes me a little bit teary eyed saying that because that's kind of what life is you get knocked down, you don't quite make it awesome.

Fail forward, adjust your plan iterate, come back to the table again.

So I'm really grateful for all those experiences where I just missed it.

That's number one, I would say.

Number two is I think golf's a lot like life.

You know, where I remember I was playing a tournament once, or my golf ball moved, you know, an eighth of an inch.

And it's really hard when you're putting so much time into golf.

You want it so bad, and you got to call that damn penalty against yourself.

But that's a lot like life where you got to hold yourself accountable.

So I think that's also cool.

You know, other sports you can kind of get away with, like, you know, them not calling a foul.

That's not golf.

You got to call on yourself.

So I would say that's the second thing, and I think the third big thing is, you know, golf can be a little bit of a lonely game.

There's no one that's going to save you.

You're out there for four hours and you're hitting it terrible.

You got to find a way to grind through it.

There's not a sub that's going to come in.

And I think that's often kind of how life is.

Sometimes it's, no one's going to save you.

You kind of need to save yourself.

So I would say those are a couple things that I really took from golf that have helped in a big way.

Has your approach of the game changed a little bit?

Are you.

Is it more relaxed now that it's, you know, not.

Not the dream of going to play pro?

Can you go out and listen to some music, hang with the boys?

Are you still pretty fiery and competitive when you get out there?

I don't think you ever really change fully, like, who you are at the core level.

Like, I don't think your son is probably ever going to lose that element he has in him now to really immerse himself.

But I can try to chill out a little bit more and have a little more perspective.

But I would say at the core level, I'm still, you know, I play my best when I just dial it back a little bit and try to love my game and enjoy it.

So I would say I'm trying to find a happy balance there, but it's not something I've perfected, and I have a ways to go still.

Have you had a chance?

I know you just went and played the pebble beach event, but have you had a Chance to just go and go on a couple guys trips or go, you know, like out to a destination like abandoned dunes or any of those in the last couple of years.

So I've gone to pebble beach now five years in a row.

So I would say that's been pretty cool.

I've definitely played some nice courses.

I would say as you get older, being able to play a really nice historic course means a lot, and it's hard to not enjoy those days.

But, you know, I would kind of take this back to your viewer a little bit.

There's still two sides of golf.

I don't care where you are.

I've gone to pebble beach and I've played terrible, and I've gone to pebble beach and I've played great.

And it is a lot more fun when you play well.

That's why I tell golfers, like, let's get you working on the right thing in the right order so you can actually love your damn game more, you know, because, I mean, I went to pebble two years ago.

I played bad.

I mean, honestly, it's like you're out there and you're just getting your teeth kicked in for five hours.

Yeah, the views are nice.

Then this year I went out and I played four beautiful rounds of golf and I had 10x more fun.

So, yes, I've done trips, but the trips are a lot more fun when you play well.

How about you?

Any courses that you played that you were like, do you have like a top two or three on your list that you're.

That are your favorite tracks?

So we just did a trip down to a place called the McLemore Resort, and they had two courses in Georgia.

In Georgia.

We were on golf academies out there.

Beautiful views over the.

The mountainside.

Yeah.

So they have the, the Highlands course, and then they have the newer course that they just opened to the public recently called the keep.

We did 16 guys, and we just had the most amazing time.

The Keep is one of the prettiest courses I've ever seen.

Still needs to kind of grow in a little bit because it's pretty fresh and new.

But, you know, being up on those cliffs and, and those mountaintops and everything was just a pretty spectacular day.

It was like walking through the clouds and just hanging out with your buddies, playing, you know, walking with the Caddy.

In fact, the episode before yours, today I interviewed the caddy that we had out there at the Keep.

His name was Adam.

And we just had such a great time.

We, we looped around a second Time and he ended up playing with us instead of carrying bags.

And so that.

That's probably my favorite golf outing ever.

That's.

There's.

Have you been on any of the big Cedar down in Branson, Missouri, by any chance?

No, but I've heard good things.

Yeah, that was.

And I haven't played the newer courses, but we went down on my 40th birthday, myself and three of my buddies, we all turned 40 and we went and played and we played the little 13 hole, par three course that's up, they call it the mountaintop.

And same kind of thing.

It was just.

It felt like you were just walking through the clouds just with your buddies, kind of a chill.

And it was just.

What I love about these golf trips are, I mean, you get to play some special places.

You know, I've gone to a couple.

It sounds like you've gone to a couple.

There's so many more now that I'm like, man, you see them popping up on your feet, you're like, it kind of upsets you.

It's like, I gotta get all these spots, like, how am I gonna do it?

It'll be cool to get to them at some point.

But what I love about it is just how this game keeps you connected.

Like, it's.

It keeps me connected with so many people across so many different walks of life.

And that's one of those other things I would say I really learned from golf and I'm grateful for, like, just think of the people you maybe wouldn't connect with.

But now you're like, you know what?

We'll do a golf trip once a year.

And that's just an amazing three days to like, have fun with them and really enjoy everything.

It is, it is.

And when you can sit and like to.

To your point before, like, you know, just appreciating where you are and what you're doing is it could be a bit of a dog track.

And as long as you're out there and you have the right attitude with your buddies, you know, it helps if you're playing well, but, you know, if you can take the time to sit back and really kind of soak it in.

Much like your mentality as a kid, soak it in and be like, dude, this is pretty great.

I'm out here with my buddies.

I'm playing golf.

Yeah, you're right.

It's such a special game that way.

Love that.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So without the game of golf, where would Bricks and Albert be?

Well, just like your son, I was always Obsessed with trying to be the best or try to be good at something.

I would say, without the game of golf.

Wow.

That.

Because golf has been such, like, a big part of my life.

Like, you know what I always like to think, if I had five lives, like, what would I do differently in those lives?

And I think I would take some different routes.

I mean, I probably would have tried to be a professional athlete in something else.

Yeah, my dream job was I would love to be the GM of the Green Bay Packers.

And I think the reason is I've always just really loved to, like, build teams and evaluate talent.

It's a big part of what I do with my business.

I'm always looking to add really talented pieces to my company.

But you can't overpay everyone.

You know, you got to be smart with kind of how you do it.

You got to be strategic.

You just can't find the best of the best in every area, because obviously you wouldn't be able to afford that.

So I would say if it wasn't for golf, I'd probably be doing something else around some other sport and really immersing myself in that.

And, you know, I think that would probably be what I would do.

Did you grow up playing any other.

Any other sports?

I played everything, and I just kept whittling it down to golf over the years, but, I mean, I was obsessed with basketball as a kid.

Yeah.

But I. I played everything, and I just kept whittling it down to, like, go, okay.

Golf's the one sport I might be able to have a. I'm probably never going to play in the NBA, but golf, you know, I think I could maybe make it in golf, and that's kind of what got me really, you know, interested in.

Keep continuing to pursue that.

Cool.

Just kind of going back to helping the.

The guys and girls that are listening as far as their.

Their practice and kind of dialing in what, you know, we talked about the root causes, and, you know, a lot of times we try to fix just these different little pieces.

Where do you see people having the biggest breakthroughs and really understanding what that root cause was, and then again, process of.

Of learning how to go about fixing it.

Is there a kind of a system that you guys have come up with?

It's like, yeah, we got to go in this order in order for people to take it from intellectually understanding what we're doing.

I'm seeing the video, but now how's it going to help my score out there?

Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day a lot of people like golf just sets you up.

Again, I just need to emphasize this.

Golf just set you up to want to work on random things.

It's almost like you have all this candy in front of you, and it's just so easy.

It's like going to a restaurant and them just giving you all these foods, and you just be like, no, no, no, I'm not gonna eat anything thing.

That's kind of what the golf industry does.

So I think for.

For starters, you have to really realize if you work on the wrong thing, you're probably going to get worse.

And we try to make that messaging clear.

I. I would kind of equate it to, you know, imagine you need to get a surgery on your heart, and the surgeon's going to go in there and they're just going to start poking around at all your organs.

You wouldn't want that, would you?

No, but that's what most golfers do.

Okay.

So the key, I think, is really getting kind of through to them.

Work on the wrong things.

You and I are talking in five years, we're probably in the same spot.

So what we want to do is we want to get them into our platform.

Let's get them that first win almost right away.

Like most golfers, if you work on the right thing first, you can fix it pretty quick.

I tell people, if you're banging your head against the wall, you're probably not working on the right thing.

Okay.

And I experienced that working with a lot of good instructors, where I saw that teacher that could get you to that right thing.

You could almost improve, like, almost right away if you weren't working on that right thing.

I've wasted five years practicing harder.

So I think the key is getting them that win where they believe a little more in themselves and then kind of showing them that smarter path.

And I think that smarter path comes from using things like our swing AI and working with a coach, because then what we can do is we can build out a little bit more of a plan.

So, hey, let's just say you're a dad with two kids and you only can play once a month, but you want to enjoy that time.

How can we make sure you practice with those maybe 20 minutes, you have a month in the right way, so when you go out, you can enjoy it.

So I think, again, it's a little bit of a process of get the first win, work on the right thing.

And, you know, that's kind of the foundation of how our entire platform is really set up.

Yeah.

When somebody goes to performance golf, is that the first thing that they go to is the AI like, hey, let's load in your swing and then let's start there.

And then does it give different recommendations as far as what courses they might want to go with or.

You know.

It does, yeah.

And if you go to the App Store, it asks you some questions and it kind of guides you through it.

And our app's going to be getting subscribers substantially smarter the next 60 days.

So it's only going to keep getting better and better.

So I think there's two ways to really enter our ecosystem.

You can go to the App Store, you can download our app, and our app's gonna not take you to a million videos.

It's gonna take you right to where you need to start.

Based on what you tell us about your game, that's number one.

Then the other way is like we, we realize golfers are in all different spots.

You know, you might have the person that started in Covid, that's that do it yourselfer that is kind of scared to go out and play still, but they'll watch the videos.

Then you maybe have the guy that just wants the training aid.

Then you maybe have the guy that just wants to work at one of our in person experiences.

So we host four in person experiences every week at some of the biggest cities with some of the best coaches.

So our whole goal is to kind of meet you where you are, to get you that first win and then get you using the app.

So you follow this smart path to keep you on a guided path versus let's just try a million different things.

Let's poke out a million different organs and kind of hope we make it through.

So that's kind of the thought process with how we've structured all of our products and curriculum at pg.

So you guys do classes or courses at the different courses, do you say every week?

Yeah.

So we.

So I have 30 of the best coaches in the US in the best cities where you can go and spend two to three days with them for an immersive, small intimate group, you with that coach and one or two other helpers to really look at all parts of your game, help you identify that root flaw and fix it.

So we're running four of these a week in the U.S. wow.

And have scaled this pretty substantially where people are going to these two day immersives and they're literally saying like, you just saved me five years of figuring this out.

And they're only the best of the best coaches.

I Mean, we're doing these with guys like Martin Chalk, you know, like, I think like Hank Haney.

Like, we're literally doing these with like 20 of the Golf Digest top 50 coaches.

And the transformations have been unbelievable.

I mean, I'm talking like every week we've got golfers, like sending us videos of them crying, saying, like, I was literally going to quit.

And I cannot believe how you have me looking at this game in a completely different light now.

Yeah, Martin Chuck is one of the guys that we had him on our previous show, the 18 Strong podcast, years ago.

And I've always just loved the way that Martin teaches.

I just, you know, so easy to understand, breaks down ideas very simply.

And I've always been jealous watching, you know, some of the golf schools that he does.

And I didn't realize that you guys were still doing those to such a scale, but have always thought, you know, so my background is in soccer and didn't really didn't start golfing until I was in my late 20s when I started working with golfers on the fitness side.

But I can remember very distinctly that the year that I went to a soccer camp for, you know, it was four days, five days, whatever it was.

But the immersion of having so many touches on a, on a ball coming out of that, the confidence level of my play, going into tryouts for, you know, varsity soccer, whatever, was so incredible because of, you know, like you said, you're just immersed, first of all, with some of the best instruction around and you're understanding, you're being able to pick through your game, to really feel what you're doing, what you're supposed to be doing.

Oh, that's how that you're supposed to hit that chip shot.

So that's so cool that you guys have those in person ones all over the place.

And then they leave the school and then they get to work with the coach for a full year after the school.

So whenever they go practice, they can send a video to their coach.

Their coach will hop on camera and say, jeff, oh my gosh, you're doing that perfect.

We just talked about that.

But you're just a little bit off.

Here, tweak this.

Send me a video back and I'll let you know if you're doing it right.

Because it's not only about working on the root flaw, which if you do that, you have an edge over everyone you're playing with.

But then if you can practice it the right way.

And that's where we have these feedback loops built into our in person experiences.

Into the platform.

Because if you do the root flaw and you work on the right way, that's how you start turning some heads.

That's how your friends start saying, wait a second, Jeff, wait, I was at the Macklemore with you last year.

Wait, wait, what are you doing?

You look like a different guy.

And I think that's what makes golfers really feel good.

When people start to notice, you're actually like, wow, you're actually getting a lot better.

Jeff, I had it all mapped out, man.

I had this plan perfectly put together and I was just ready to unleash on it.

No, I'm just, I'm totally bullshitting you now.

I mean, I think that's another thing for anyone watching this that maybe wants to start something.

I think the most successful people often in life, like one of my principles has always been a lot of people wait till they're 80% ready, 90% to the whole plan's perfected.

I'm a believer.

And you got to start when you're at like 30.

Like, just start, okay?

And I was definitely at 30% when I started.

I didn't really know exactly what I was doing.

But the vision expands.

Like when I first started, it's like, okay, let's start selling some videos.

Then it was like, oh my gosh, like, let's go create a $5 million company.

Then I started hanging around this mastermind.

I'm like, wait a second, this is a $50 million market.

And then I got around some other people and I'm like, wait, why don't I build a couple hundred million dollar business here?

So I would say the vision expands.

And what I thought back then to what I'm thinking now is like light years of a difference.

How do you, and I'm just going to assume that you, you come to these points, but where you're just kind of like in awe, but also maybe a little bit of overwhelm of what is, you know, on your plate.

Do those moments happen to you often and how do you push past those?

This is the one thing I would say if I could give back in the future to others, I would love to do, because my default, I've always, like, I have a really good work ethic, you know, I feel like I can almost outwork anyone.

And I got that really from my dad and my grandpa who just were like, they were workers.

Like, you would go out of my house, we would do some yard work, my dad would outwork me and five buddies.

You know, my grandpa worked 17, 18 hour days.

So they kind of show me what a work ethic was before I knew what a work ethic meant.

And that was just always part of my DNA.

So my default as a human is work really, really hard.

And that creates, I kind of call it the Tom Brady effect.

I don't think Tom Brady was the best, but he was so damn consistent for so long.

He started to manufacture his own luck, get this chip on his shoulder.

And I think it's what led him to greatness.

Okay.

And I think that helped me a lot.

Like that similar thing just grinding away.

But then there comes this point in life where you need to shift because you can't outwork the work.

You know, at one point I remember trying to work so hard, but I'm like, I can't outwork this work.

There's just more and more coming at me.

So that's really the transition that I'm in now.

And it's so hard to think what got you here is not what's going to get you to the next level, make a shift and try to completely rewire your DNA as a human.

And that's been what I've been trying to figure out the last two years.

And I've learned a lot.

I had no one to guide me, but I hope one day there's a few other people I can maybe guide through that process and learn from my mistakes.

Because it's a hard shift to make.

And I think in life a lot of us have that where we had this one thing that maybe really made us who we are, but now we got to flip a switch on a dime, think counterintuitively, make a shift.

And the only way we're going to get to that next level is, is if we make that shift.

And that's kind of one of the big challenges I would say I have.

Do you have somebody in particular that you really lean on or that is.

Is kind of a guide to you or mentor to you or somebody that just when you get to that point, you're, you know, you've got them to lean on?

Yeah, I mean, I got some people that maybe give me advice, you know, on that.

But I think the best thing that you can do, if I had to get myself the biggest piece of advice is sit in a room, close all browsers, turn off your cell phone, and think.

Jeff Bezos has three sessions a week for 30 minutes where he just thinks.

And often what happens when you slow down and think?

You start to kind of play a little more chess?

You start to look at, okay, well, I can be smarter here.

I could be more efficient here.

And I think what happens is when you go so fast, you often can't see out of your own shadow, and you can never dig yourself out of this hole of all the things coming out of you, and I fell victim to that for a long time.

It makes you unhappy.

It's difficult.

But when you just slow down and think, you can find a way to work yourself out of it.

Then if you have a mentor to your point that can help you that went through it, they can save you some time.

You know, also, I would say such great advice.

Yeah.

Did you ever experience that where you kind of hit that thing where you're like, you know, I think what I found is, like, you never.

Like, everyone's like, well, I'm going to get more free time.

I hate to say it, but you're probably going to only keep getting busier in life.

Have you experienced some moments like that?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you know, just with so many different things, with family, with business, with trying to keep up with your health, you know, time.

Time can really start to.

To shrink.

Right.

And so that's where to your point of, you know, finding ways to systematize just the things that you do every day as far as even like a morning routine, making sure that, you know, things are kind of dialed in there so you're not wasting time and just piddling around.

And I often find myself wanting to have just more time to.

To just kind of sit, you know, kind of separate a little bit from everything that's going on and just kind of piece the.

The puzzle pieces together a little bit to your point.

Just like just sitting back and thinking about what's going on as opposed to being in it and running all the time.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's easier said than done.

But if I could give back in any way, I would love at some point to really help some people kind of go through.

Because it's very difficult when you're just, like, getting so much thrown at you, you're overwhelmed, you're trying to juggle, you're trying to show up in the world, trying to perform at a high level, you're trying to manage different relationships.

It's very difficult when you're you know, you just can't outpace everything coming at you at some points.

Yeah.

And that's.

That's definitely when it's easy to let certain things slip.

And oftentimes that's when we kind of let our health or our fitness or our diet.

Yeah.

All totally slide.

Slide away a little bit.

Yeah.

So, one last question for you.

We call this the golf confessional.

Okay.

And, you know, we have kind of talked about the theme of golf and life really mirroring each other.

I like to say that golf exposes many things in us that we maybe wouldn't have seen or learned about ourselves until we come across that in the world of golf.

Is there a story that you can think about sometime on the golf course that maybe golf either humbled you or, you know, forced some gratitude in you or really exposed something in you that maybe you hadn't seen before?

Gosh, there's so many.

I mean, I think the biggest thing is I feel like in golf, you feel like you fail a lot, especially if you really want to do well.

And we, you know, I think, like, it's just.

It's a parallel to life.

Like, the more you can kind of fail, I think in life, like, if I could 4x my failure rate, I'm probably going to have more success than you in a lot of ways.

And I think golf, it's almost like that kick to the face all the time.

Like you're, you know, they showed Scotty Scheffler when he won the Masters last year.

Remember the moment where he's kind of walking through, he's walking up at the end, and you think about it, like, he had that one moment, but think of all the painful moments, all the bad shots.

And I think just to kind of get that, like, ingrained into my head of like, hey, you're going to fail a lot.

A lot of times you're not going to hit results that meet your expectations, but that's all part of the process.

So I would say I'm constantly humbled because this game is so hard.

And I think that often kind of relates to life.

Like, life is really hard sometimes, and it's okay just to accept that versus, you know, be upset about it.

Yeah.

Take it and use it as an advantage.

Right.

I mean, see.

See it as what it is and.

And learn from it.

I love it.

Yeah.

A lot of humbling moments, man.

You know, hit bad shots in front of people.

You know, you want to play really well.

We've all had the one, like, you want to, like, Play so well with this one person.

You put extra pressure and you don't do it.

So I would say golf's a continual kick in the teeth, but you want to go out there and still kind of represent yourself in the right way, even when you're not playing well and loving your game as much as you would like.

Well, let's end on a bright spot.

What's the best shot that you hit at pebble beach last week?

Oh, geez.

Was pretty happy over four rounds.

I shot 70, 74, 71, 73.

So I played pretty well.

I honestly hit a lot of good shots.

Man.

I birdie number seven both days I played it.

I thought that was pretty good.

Wow.

Yeah, there.

There were a lot of good shots, which is.

Is kind of crazy to say.

I eagled number two.

I felt pretty good about that.

I shot 33 on the back nine at Spyglass.

Dude.

There were a lot of.

I was playing pretty nicely.

There were a lot of.

A lot of good moments.

I should probably spend a little more time to reflect on and appreciate those and remember them a little more.

I was gonna say hang on to those.

Hang on to those.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I gave you, like, 15 there.

I totally did not answer your question, but hopefully that gave you a couple.

There.

There was some.

There were a bunch, which I'm grateful for.

I'm just happy that we.

We brought them back to your.

To your consciousness.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

What do you think?

I gotta ask you a question.

What do you think if I could.

If.

What would it be worth to you right now if I could give you a video of every one of your best shots you've ever had in your life?

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, it would.

It'd be kind of priceless if you could just kind of automatically replay that.

That's something that I. I've thought a lot about, just as far as, like, visualization and being able to.

Able to journal, like, each have, like, one great shot that you've hit with every club and, like, just have it on.

On speed dial.

I think that that would be so beneficial for all of us to.

To be able to just pull up.

I'm not going to go into this now, but mark my words, watch what happens here.

That's going to happen.

Watch what happens.

Okay.

Because I.

You know, those moments are so special, to be able to relive those.

So just keep an eye on what happens there over the next year.

Okay.

I'm watching Brixton.

This was awesome.

I really appreciate you coming on.

I'm so impressed with everything that you guys are doing over there.

Some of the best coaches on the platform, some of them I have the fortune of knowing, some I don't.

But everything that you've built is, is great.

And like I said, I love your tagline of love your game.

And that's.

That's what it's all about, right?

We all love this game.

It brings all of us together.

So thank you for the time today and keep doing what you're doing, man.

Thank you for the kind words.

And I I really enjoyed the conversation as well.

Definitely enjoyed it.

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