Welcome to Credit Union Conversations! In this episode, we wrap up our series on the powerful partnerships between credit unions and small business owners with an inspiring entrepreneurship and financial collaboration journey. Host Mark Ritter is joined by George Florence from American Heritage Credit Union and Ross Hammer from Cape May, New Jersey, to explore how credit unions play a vital role in supporting ambitious entrepreneurs. From Ross’s unconventional path—dropping out of school and moving to Hong Kong—to securing an SBA loan with the backing of key mentors, this episode highlights the resilience and opportunity that credit unions help create. We spotlight Pennsylvania’s American Heritage Credit Union and its commitment to empowering small businesses. Stay tuned for valuable insights on lending, perseverance, and the unexpected opportunities that shape success!

IN THIS EPISODE:

• [2:38] George describes his role at American Heritage Credit Union 
• [3:53] Ross shares his background
• [12:08] Ross drops out of school and moves to Hong Kong, and the inspiration he received from a book and wanting to be an entrepreneur 
• [17:36] Applying for an SBA loan and getting support from key people and an unexpected windfall and a new venture
• [29:07] Ross connects with American Heritage Credit Union to apply for a small business lending loan
• [38:56] Ross advises lenders about giving people an opportunity

KEY TAKEAWAYS: 

• Ross Hammer demonstrated relentless determination despite financial struggles. He hustled to secure funding for his food truck, even using Coinstar to cash in change and taking a chance on fantasy football, which ultimately led to an unexpected windfall. His story highlights the importance of persistence and thinking outside the box to achieve goals.
• Key figures played crucial roles in his entrepreneurial journey. Their belief in him, financial support, and guidance helped him transition from food trucks to real estate, proving that strong networks and mentorship can be life-changing.
• After initial failures in the food truck business, Ross pivoted to real estate, recognizing an opportunity in distressed properties. Instead of flipping houses for a quick profit, he focused on revitalizing neighborhoods and renting them out, eventually building a substantial portfolio. His story underscores the value of adapting to market conditions and thinking long-term.

RESOURCE LINKS

Mark Ritter - Website

Mark Ritter - LinkedIn

American Heritage Credit Union - Website

Rich Dad, Poor Dad - Book

Zest Cape May - Website

Taco Caballio Tequileria - Website 

George Florence - LinkedIn

Ep. 74 - Hanging Out at the Jersey Shore With American Heritage-Transcript

Mark Ritter: Hello, this is Mark Ritter, CEO of MBFS, a business lending CUSO headquartered in Pennsylvania with staff and credit unions all across the country, and also the host of Credit Union Conversations. So thank you for joining me today and please subscribe to us on your favorite audio channels or wherever you listen to us.

And if they were here in the room with me, they will be bugging me all the time. To ask, uh, Cape May, New Jersey questions rather than talking about his business. So joining me today are two people. Uh, first of all, George Florence from American Heritage Federal Credit Union. George, how are you today?

George Florence: I'm doing well, Mark.

How about yourself? And thank you for having me.

Ross Hammer: Hi, I'm doing great. Um, yeah, again, thanks for having us. And I'm excited to kind of break down our story and, uh, tell you guys a little bit about, you know, our, our whole, uh, our whole beginnings and where we're at now.

Mark Ritter: Well, things are a little bit quieter in Cape May, uh, New Jersey these days, uh, compared to July 4th. So I'm glad, uh, we have the time, uh, set a little bit of time away to join us. So I'm going to kick things over to George first, George, if you could just tell people a little bit, uh, About you American heritage and your role there at the credit union.

George Florence: Okay. All right. Sure. So, um, Try to give you like a little helicopter view because I can go on for a while. Um, So i'm gonna come my title is i'm a commercial relationship officer Um, i've worked for credit american heritage for about 10 years american heritage. Um, It's a, you know, a Philadelphia based credit union.

So I handle commercial mortgages, um, working capital lines of credit, small business loans, um, business banking relationship as well. Um, we worked through, so, um, yeah, so I, I wear a couple of different hats within my role. Um, And so that's basically a summary of it for me. All

Mark Ritter: right. Well, thank you. So we're going to try to spend the bulk of our time here with Ross.

Uh, Ross, if you could, uh, I always like to hear people's origin story, uh, going from way back when your early life, you know, kind of your, your, your path and journey. And, uh, tell, tell people what, uh, what keeps you busy today.

So. Cool. Uh, it's the three of us and, uh, and so my mom moved here with my grandmom and my dad. So it was, uh, so it was all of us in Cape May and we ended up growing up like right down the street from one of, um, our first restaurants here. So at a young age, at the age of six, my dad, uh, ended up moving back out to Hong Kong, kind of leaving like my mom, my grandma behind.

Moms and my grandmom who are from the Philippines don't really understand, you know, what it is to live here in the US and kind of just having to learn the language and, uh, it was just such like a roller coaster. So I grew up in a pretty, you know, poor family and, um, you know, it made us like kind of work at such a young age and.

And my mom said that, like, I picked up on that, you know, and I was, I was. Like primarily race from my mom, my grandma, my, I really didn't have much communication with my father, but she was able to take us, uh, you know, she worked 13 hour shifts and was able to get us through private school, um, all three of us.

So we, we were able to go to, uh, to, uh, start the C, which is our local, uh, private school that, um, ultimately closed down after we graduated. Just like a lot of Catholic schools around here. Uh, and then I ended up going to Wildwood Catholic, uh, which kind of converted into like an academy now in Wildwood.

It was like people. You know, kind of who lived by, like went to that school. There wasn't many people living in the dorms. And so I really didn't get excited about that. And I really, you know, I, I, I wanted to be like in the city and I want to try different things, but it was also like super expensive. And, you know, at the time I was kind of like feeding for myself there.

Like I had to pick up little jobs just to. You know, feed myself for the week. And I guess I kind of grew up where like, I couldn't really rely on like my mom, my grandma, of course they would give me every dollar they had, but you know, they didn't really have much when we were growing up. So it made me like, uh, you know, have to like work.

Mark Ritter: not a cheap place to go.

Ross Hammer: Yeah. And it wasn't very smart for me to like, but it was what I wanted to do.

And Um, they were, they were offering me, you know, a little bit of money, even though it was out of state. And then, I think at the end of the day, I only had to pay like 12, a year. And, um, so the first, uh, two years, so, I spent three years in college. The first two years there were like, alright, you know, I need to work.

Um, I would ask my mom for like 20 a week so I could eat a 3 gyro. Every single day. And those guys remembered me, you know, because I would go there every day and, you know, a couple of times I was like, guys, like, I, you know, I, I, like, I don't have anything. Do you mind if I pay you tomorrow? And like, and they're like, yeah, no problem.

Mark Ritter: College wasn't your passion.

Ross Hammer: It wasn't. It was more about, like, It'd be cool to have fun here, and I think what I learned most is kind of, like, living on your own, right? Like Life skills. Yeah, like, if I were to say that to anyone else, like, you know, what, what did, what'd you learn most about college is, like Man, doing my own laundry and like having to fiend for myself and like having to, you know, uh, you know, budget, you know, like some money, you know, I was a bartender, um, you know, the, I think the third year in, uh, you know, I was, uh, um, having to save up a little bit of money just so, you know, I could pay my rent.

And, uh, at the time, I was talking to my dad for maybe three years. Who, really, think about this, he was like absent for like my whole childhood. I kind of reconnected with him, uh, while I was, uh, like at, towards the end of high school and then into college. You know, he's like promising me all this stuff and like, so, you know, he, he's, he basically told me that, um, you know, so in my family, it's like, you finished college, uh, you get a good job, uh, and, and, you know, um, that's like, you know, and then you, you buy this house for your family.

Whereas like when I would call my brother and my sister or even my mom or my grandma. I remember my brother was someone I really looked up to. He was older than me, a lot smarter than me. He was in school to be an attorney when I was at Drexel, and he was at the Drexel Law School. Uh, he was someone I really looked up to, and when I told him I was dropping out, he was like, You're gonna be a failure.

Like, you're gonna be the biggest failure in the family. Like, you might Be homeless and, you know, tell me all this crazy stuff. And, you know, at the time you really believe it, right? Like you don't know any better. Um, you know, you're just trying to figure out life at that point at a young age. Right. So, so why I brought up my dad was kind of talking to me, um, while I was in college.

And so, uh, I ended up like leaving on mother's day because it was the cheapest flight, no one's traveling on mother's day, right? So I left on mother's day to, and I was sitting in between two people, like. Literally right next to the toilet in the back of the airplane. And like, every time that thing was swing open for 16 hours, you're like, Oh my God, this is awful.

That's a long flight for 16 hours. Yeah. You really don't understand how like 16 hours is in between like two people, like right next to the toilet. It was. It was God awful, but it was the cheapest flight. And I left on mother's day. Right. And, uh, so I get to Hong Kong and it is like, there's like no speed limit.

And he was like, all right, you know, just, uh, you know, if you need anything, just call me, whatever. And I'm like Skyping, cause that's, I would Skype with my dad and try to get ahold of him. And I'm like, so, you know, I'm here, like, where are you? And he's like, oh, I'm in all sure right now. You know, I'm coming soon.

I'm coming soon. And I ended up sitting in his apartment for like four days. Of course, like I would go downstairs and come back up and whatever, uh, to go get food. And so for four days I'm sitting there, I'm like, where is this guy? Right. And so I, I, uh, every, every day I'm like, Skyping with him like four or five times a day.

Mark Ritter: Then you're, you're halfway around the world. Yeah,

Ross Hammer: I don't know what I'm doing here. Right. And like, I'm like, this is like devastating. Right. And, you know, I told my mom, I was like, I promise, like, I'm going to get a job out here. And, you know, he's, he's going to take care of us and whatever. Right. And I should have known better.

So I, so the third night I just went to the local pub and I just got like hammered because I was like, so mad at like my life and myself. And I just, It was awful, right? The fourth day, um, I wake up and I'm really sick. Uh, I ended up drinking the ice water there, which, which is not what you're supposed to do in Hong Kong.

And, you know, I think I'll always love her for that. You know, she said, why don't you come back home and, you know, we'll get, you know, get the next flight out of there and, uh, you know, we'll, you know, we'll try to figure it out. Right. So I ended up, so leaving Hong Kong, you know, didn't see my dad, uh, just dropped out of college.

Don't have like a dollar. I had no money in the airport coming home. There was a bookstore and I'm not joking. I don't think I read a book from front to back, like ever in my whole life. Like, I don't know, I was like more hands on and I really like math better than reading and, but, you know, I, I always knew like successful people always, you know, read books.

And I feel like now, like even when I go through tough times now, like I, I read and it kind of gets my mind off of things right now and it, like, I would never expect that when I, you know, in high school or college that I would like be reading now, but like, that's kind of what gets my, uh, Gets my head off things a little bit.

Mark Ritter: Yeah, that's, that's tremendous. I mean, what businesses then when you came back, have you, have you been involved with?

I think, um, it, it really taught me about like. What could you provide for other people to get some kind of financial return? Because if you think about like any companies in general, or any big companies like Apple, like they do so much for so many people are like Microsoft or any of these big companies, they affect a lot of people's lives.

And so like, I was like, Well, what does my family have to provide? And it was Filipino food, right? Like that's where like people would buy Filipino food out of my grandma's house just to like have her egg rolls for like a holiday dinner. And I was like, that's it. I'm going to start a food truck. Right. So we come back and I go to the SBA and I say, you know, I want to start this food truck.

She ended up helping me pay. It was only 600 a month, but like, couldn't pay for that. She ended up helping me pay like two months of my rent. And that I was so grateful for, um, the first time I met Linda was on her birthday. It was December 19th, um, or 20th, I'm sorry. And we went to a Fogo de Chao and I wanted to show like, you know, Hey, I could take care, you know, your daughter and stuff.

Like I wanted to pay for it. And I, when I saw the bill at Fogo de Chao, I was like, I was like, I don't think my credit card is going to work. But like, I had to like talk to the lady like in the back. I was like, Hey, listen, like, do you think you can split between these two cars? You know, it was like the first time I met Linda, but when I first met her, I was like, Oh my God, she has this like business mindset.

Like I connected with her right away. Like

Mark Ritter: it's amazing. The inflection points where you meet people and who kind of give you that helping hand on how much it can change your life.

I ended up hiring these people. It's like, it's called fiber and people per hour. It's like. They help you like develop this business plan and like how you're going to structure and all and like they helped me do all this and I submitted to the SBA like two and a half months in there like, you know, I'm not sure if you're ready, like you're young, you know, you're going to stand in front of these investors and kind of talk about this 25, 000 loan and I was like, trust me, like, I'm so hungry.

Like I'm so ready. You can't tell me like, I'll do anything for this money, you know, just so I could start this business. And two, so this two and a half months in, right? So that Sunday was a football Sunday. I ended up cashing in all my, like a change thing. And on the top, it had like a counter in it. And I saw it said like 56 in there.

And then it's like 2 to enter. I bet 2, right? And, um, Sunday comes around, right? This is two weeks before the SBA meeting. Uh, Sunday comes around and I'm in, I'm, I go from like 600th place, like 90th place. And at one point towards the end of the, because it was for the one o'clock only, I was in second place and I was like, Oh my God, I just won, um, 12, 500.

He wanted 17. 5. I said, can you, and he was like, all right, we're gonna have to like change some things around, whatever. And, uh, you know, we'll build this food truck for you. And so he ended up doing for 12, 500. Well, then three days later, after Sunday, I think it was like Wednesday, I'm like walking back to my apartment and there's another 12, 500 in my account.

And I was like, what the hell, like what happened? And I, and I get an email saying. I'm sorry, Baltimore was a block kick, not a miss kick. You actually won first place. Here's another 12, 500. So I ended up actually winning exactly what I was asking the SBA for, right? So like, this was like the buildup of like my inspiration.

But we ended up finding like a couple of good people that were helping us run this food truck. And then we end up going out of business in like three months because the sales were just like, yeah. I think we were doing like 90 orders a day. And then when I upped the rice bowls, because we were serving rice bowls, when I upped it 1 to 6 instead of 5, our sales cut in half.

And it was, it was such hard work. And I think we were only making like maybe 50 a day at the time. I'm sorry, I'm kind of giving you this like long spew of like how this whole thing started, because it's crazy. We ended up starting a second food truck that was like a vegan burger truck, thinking that that was going to be successful.

I was like, of course, like, you know, I, I grew up kind of doing constructions and they're like, and he was like, you know, I'll sell it to you guys for 35, 000. And we were like, yeah, like, of course, like I'll sell this food truck. I ended up getting like 13, 000 for the food truck. And we just asked him if he could just hold the note until we.

We do some innovations and then, you know, hopefully we could finance it and then pay him off. And so that's what we did. But there was a guy living in the house at the time. So I had to go there and kick this guy out of the house. And like, the way like my mom raised me, like I could never do that to someone.

Like it would just be immoral to kick someone out of their house when it's cold outside and they're going to live in their car, right? So I went to the door and the guy is like 6'5 And I was like, Oh my God, this guy is so scary. Like, I, like, how am I supposed to tell him? Right. He's like, Oh, you know, it was my grandfather's house.

And it appraised for 135, 000 after me and him and, you know, like a couple of my roommates from school, like fix up this house. So he, he then ended up living in that house for like five years after that. Uh, and, and he became like my property maintenance guy. And like, we really helped each other. He ended up moving to Florida.

Uh, this was like four years ago, but we, we helped him like tremendously. Cause we started, we started this whole thing like maybe nine years ago or 10 years ago, something like that. Um, well, if you remember during that time, it was so Cumberland County was like the number one foreclosed town in all of New Jersey.

So like every other house had that red sticker on the front door.

Mark Ritter: Yes. Yep.

Like populated again, like ultimately the properties will go up. So the first year, I think we bought like maybe three properties. We were able to borrow against, I think that first one. And then we, uh, Linda ended up pulling like a line from her accounting office for like. 40, 000 for us to buy like the second one.

And we were, I think we were his second client maybe. Um, so he needed to get money out to lend and we needed money to really fix up Vineland. So we ended up the second year, I think we bought maybe 15 houses, fixed them up, made them nice. Then the third year we bought a house a week. And so we bought 52 houses, 54 houses, something like that.

It, the third year in, and these are all like. You know, 50 to 100, 000, like these houses, they weren't very expensive.

Mark Ritter: Did you find it was profitable on the flips? Did, did that work out for you? Did you have some winners, some losers? So

Ross Hammer: we didn't flip any houses. Uh, I don't know why we didn't, we just didn't flip them.

And so, so that's what we did for like six years. And we bought like over 150 units, maybe a hundred prop, like a hundred and some properties. Like 115 properties, something like that. And so we were at the title company, like every week it was after, I think maybe the fourth or fifth year where I was like, wait, like these properties are actually worth, like, it's like something that we bought, say for like 50, 000, we put like 15, 000 into it.

I wanted to get something in Cape May. We ended up buying our first property in Cape May sight unseen, just seeing that it was the only foreclosure in all of Cape May. And, um, I ended up overbidding like whatever the bid price was. And, uh, it was, I think we ended up paying like a 456, 000, like that four or five, six in my head was just like, yeah, that's the number, right?

Mark Ritter: Property for those, uh, we have listeners all across the country and property values in, uh, Cape May are, uh, quite a bit different than Vineland. So,

Ross Hammer: yeah, yeah, actually, uh, that. House just appraised, uh, last week for like 2. 2 or something like that. Um, but we ended up, we put in some money, we put some money into it and then we, we turned it into this like really like sleek, cool Airbnb that you could stay at and people really liked that.

Mark Ritter: Yeah, how did you connect with American Heritage and, uh, on some of these ventures?

Ross Hammer: So, it started with Uh, 50, 000, a 40, 000 line for the Belinda's accounting firm. And George was like, come on, what is it like? It was an equipment loan. Equipment loan, equipment loan. You know, I, I guess George was more excited about doing some bigger stuff, but at the time, you know, it's what we needed. And, um, so we, we kind of found George through that.

And then we kind of told him like what we're doing and like. How we're doing it and, you know, our endeavors here in Cape May and, you know, how I grew up here and how I get excited about like the development of Cape May. And, um, and so we showed them kind of, I think it was, did you guys finance Lafayette first?

And George was like, we would be more than happy to, to entertain something like that. Right. So, um, we, there was this property, it's called the Buttonwood, which we still own now. It's this like little. Hotel that's like on the corner of West Cape May there and then across from it was a, the, uh, the main house for that place.

And that's what we did. So we bought this buttonwood, we fixed it up and this was kind of, um, like during COVID when we were fixing it up. So we did this like kind of self check in, um, like hotel that ended up working out like really well. And, uh, and we still operate in that fashion now and it kind of gives like the customer the ability to have like that hotel type feel like a smaller hotel type feel without like happen to, um, interact with anyone they check in their room.

They can be in and out, do whatever they want. And then they have all the amenities downstairs. It's a really neat concept and it works out really well and it cuts our overhead down a whole lot.

Going through whi, which many people, and, and I, I always, uh, you know, I, I look, I, if I had, if I started buying up properties to, uh, to, to, to fix and renovate, it would be an absolute disaster because I am the least ha, I'm good with the numbers and horrible. Uh, with the, like, if I put up some drywall, I would just say, don't lean against it.

And, and, and you had that drive to keep going and going. And so, so you still have the button would then.

Ross Hammer: Yeah. So we still have the button one and Mark, like, mind you, like with everything I went through, I had like no choice, but to be, you know, to try and be successful. Right. It's so like that drive that you're talking about, like you have to understand like how I felt leaving Hong Kong.

Mark Ritter: Has anybody approached you about a book deal? Because it's a great

Ross Hammer: story if this story actually got out, like it would it, it would, and honestly, I'd be so excited that it would motivate people to wanna get out there and do something.

I think that's what I get excited about if people hear the story because. It's so unbelievable.

Mark Ritter: I find it's very easy. You know, I grew up in Cole region in Pennsylvania, much, a little bit poor area. Um, you know, and, and there's a lot of excuses on why you can't, why you can't do things. Uh, and really you just, I, I just find like.

You have to persevere and keep going through and yeah, you're not going to have as easy a journey as some guy whose dad's a hedge fund, uh, operator in Manhattan, but the path is there for people.

I think like you learn, you learn how to be a man, like at younger age, right? Like you have to get out there and work and get involved and learn. And you know, that people either take the high road on that or, or, you know, or, or they're, they're kind of happy with how they they're doing things. And so I got excited about, you know, buying my mom a car one day and then buying her.

A house one day and then employing her full time. You know, when we were back in Vine, remember when I was telling you when we were buying this house, like a house, a house a week that year, I hired my mom full time, I called her and I said, quit your job today. Um, and I'll pay you double. Then what you, then what you're making at the hospital.

And she literally was like, no way. I'm not doing that. And then a week later she said, I just put my two weeks in .

Ross Hammer: did work at a hospital. Yeah. Yes. She, but she was a secretary. Okay. I mean, that's like different than a nurse.

You know, you don't get paid nearly as much

Mark Ritter: now. And what restaurants are you involved with today or food service business

Ross Hammer: for you to kind of get an idea? So, like we went from the Buttonwood that was that ended up being like an extremely successful, like a little boutique hotel to us reaching back out to American Heritage.

It's like one of the coolest buildings you'll see in Cape Bay. And I was like, man, I really want this place. So it was during COVID, right. And, uh, it was like right after [00:36:00] COVID, it was like right around there where like restaurants were getting killed, right. And they wanted out. And I said, Linda, if there's an opportunity to get a liquor license in Cape May, this is our opportunity because liquor lessons are nearly impossible to get in Cape May.

Um, and you can't find some in there and they're extremely expensive. And then on top of that, like the, the real estate alone on this place. Uh, is like out of this world. So I showed George like our idea. Right. And at the time it was just taking over the building to do the hotel. And then we would lease back the restaurant.

Cause I was like, I don't want to get back involved with frigging food. Like I already know what that was like. Right. And then, uh, as we thought about more and more, they're like, well, you know, we'll throw in the restaurant and the liquor license, if you guys are willing to buy, and I was like, man, like it would be depressing if like, say our guests, we do this hotel about this big building.

Uh, we ended up buying the whole thing and our first. Steps were like, let's turn this into like this swanky taco bar and like, make it super nice inside and like have like a DJ like kind during the day and like just really good vibes in there. And, um, it's going well though today though. Right. When we bought it, I think the restaurant was like doing like 2.

7 million or something like that in revenue. The first year we purchased it and did our renovations. I think we did like maybe. Four, four or 5 million, something like that after the renovations, which was pretty good. And then the second year we did like seven and a half. And then I think this year we're like close to 9 million in revenue there.

Ross Hammer: The place took off and we did this like second floor bar and like, it's like incredible, um, how this place turned into like an icon now in gate May of this, like taco Capolito building.

Mark Ritter: So just to pivot here and, uh, start to wind things down. You have here an audience of credit union financial service professionals You're an american success story What would you tell people about lenders, about giving somebody a shot, looking at the business and giving people an opportunities and how they should really be, be help, be, be looking at people like yourself?

Um, that were, that became wildly successful as well at the end of the day, it was like, what do, what can we provide for other people? And I, you know, that, I think that goes back to the book that, you know, when I read, you know, that initial, uh, plane ride home was like, how could I provide for other people?

How can I be, you know, um, how can I affect other people's lives? And if your effect is bigger, um, and to a bigger audience. So for instance, um, in taco Cavalito, um, we had between 2, 000 and 2, 500 people in there. Per day, uh, throughout the whole summer. So think about your effect, right? You're affecting 2, 000 to 2, 500 people's lives that are on vacation every single day.

How do we drive tax dollars into this city? How do we populate this city? The bigger picture is like What effect would you have, um, for other people? And, um, and if it's a positive one, I think it's going to ultimately be successful. And so what, you know, what we tried to provide with Taco Cabalito is, you know, a spot for families can get that can go to and, uh, laid back, but also really nice and good food.

Like, what an incredible experience that would be for, for customers and client or people, you know, to, to visit Cape May and have this experience. So for me, it's, you know, uh, how, how can you affect other people's lives? And that's what I get excited about.

Mark Ritter: Thank you so much for joining us today, George, uh, Florence from American Heritage and Ross Hammer, an entrepreneur from Cape May, New Jersey.

Ross Hammer: If you look up Zest Cape May, that's like kind of the, um, that's like the overall, like for all the restaurants.

Okay. Uh, so Zest Cape May, is that ZestCapeMay. com or? Yeah, ZestCapeMay. com and then, um, our restaurants are Taco Cabalito. Tequila Rhea, uh, which is Taco Cavalier, Tequila Rhea. com. Um, Port, um, Port Marina or Port Cape May. com. And then, uh, Fish House. Um, and is that Fish House. com? I, I'm not sure if that, that has a website.

But, so those are our three restaurants. And then, uh, we have that little hotel still, the Buttonwood. And so our own Cape May is like the, um, The places to stay, we have Airbnbs and some, some, uh, that little hotel, but definitely check out our restaurants. Those are the big, big movers

Mark Ritter: for those of you listening that haven't, uh, heard of Cape May or seen it, Google it up.

You just have. The listen. So thank you for everybody. Uh, and we will talk to you soon.

Narrator: Thank you for listening to the credit union conversations podcast. Have a question? Visit mark Ritter. com for more information.