What happens when the system meant to create community quietly disappears?

For decades, military spouse networks functioned as powerful support systems. They helped families navigate deployments, relocations, and the emotional weight of military life.

But as cultural expectations changed — and the volunteer structures holding those networks together disappeared — many military families found themselves facing a new challenge: isolation.

In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with Stacey Morgan, a U.S. Army spouse of 25 years and leadership coach with The MomCo, to explore what happens when community breaks down and how everyday people can rebuild it.

Stacey shares how moving to a new duty station revealed just how fractured military spouse networks had become. Instead of waiting for someone else to fix it, she and two other spouses created a radically simple model for rebuilding community: no dues, no drama, and member-led interest groups.

Their approach flips traditional leadership models upside down and reminds us of something simple but powerful: Community isn’t something we consume. It’s something we create.

And sometimes the bravest thing you can do is go first.

In This Episode, We Explore

1. Why traditional military spouse support networks have collapsed in many places
2. How isolation impacts military families and even military retention
3. The surprising role community plays in resilience during deployments
4. Stacey’s radically simple model for rebuilding community
5. Why waiting to be rescued keeps people lonely
6. How small interest groups can spark real connection
7. The courage it takes to introduce yourself first

Episode Highlights

[02:10] Why Stacey’s “freaks” are military spouses and the unique bond they share

[08:30] How traditional military spouse support systems quietly fell apart

[15:00] Why community connection impacts military family retention

[26:00] The hidden gaps created when volunteer support systems disappeared

[33:00] Stacey’s new model for community: “No dues, no drama”

[41:30] How small interest groups spark real connection

[53:00] The story behind Stacey’s book The Astronaut’s Wife

[1:03:00] The life lesson that changed everything: no one is coming to rescue you

[1:07:20] Where to start if you want to build community in your own life

Meet Our Guest

Stacey Morgan is an Army spouse of 25 years, mom of four, speaker, and author of The Astronaut’s Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth. Stacey serves on staff with The MomCo as an executive leadership coach, membership manager, and lead for military and online groups. She and her family are currently stationed at White Sands Missile Test Range in New Mexico.

Meet Your Host

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, writer, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. She’s spent nearly two decades building online spaces that feel more like chosen family than comment sections, and she’s not afraid to call out the fluff in favor of real connection. As the founder of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers, builders, and bridge-makers who believe that “normal” was never the point. When she’s not hosting the show, she’s raising two daughters, leading client communities, and making meaning out of the mess.

Key Quotes

1. “There’s no rescuer coming for you. And as sad as that sounds, there’s freedom in it.” — Stacey Morgan
2. “You can’t wait for someone to show up and tell you what to do. Community has to be built by the people who want it.” — Stacey Morgan
3. “The future of community has to be light, nimble, and member-led.” — Stacey Morgan
4. “Enough of this culture of complaining about what doesn’t exist. If you want it, be willing to host it.” — Stacey Morgan
5. “You have to get out of your house. No one is going to come knocking on your door.” — Stacey Morgan

Resources & Mentions

1. The Astronaut’s Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth by Stacey Morgan
2. Stacey Morgan (official website)
3. The MomCo
4. Blue Star Families
5. Military Spouse Advocacy Network
6. Marco Polo App
7. Sharon McMahon

Support the Show

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

Let’s Stay Freaky

1. Facebook Group
2. LinkedIn
3. Instagram
4. Podcast Hub

What’s Next

The strongest communities aren’t built around one person. In the next episode, Tonya explores why the best communities are designed to survive their founders, how Stacey’s model flips leadership on its head, and what happens when belonging becomes part of the structure instead of the job description.

[Speaker 2]

Quick heads up before we dive into today's episode. Stacy sounds fantastic. I, however, do not.

My audio had some issues despite our best efforts. There are a few spots where I'm really hard to hear. We chose not to re-record the conversation because there are just parts of it that are too good to risk losing.

So bear with us. I want to say special thanks to my editor Anita for working absolute magic to get it to the place that it is now. It is 10 times better than it was before.

I really hope you will stick with the episode despite my bad audio. I promise you it is worth it.

[Speaker 1]

I sat in my house for six months thinking that some magical person who somehow would know I existed even though I was doing nothing to make myself known was going to call me up and be like, do you want to be best friends? I'm awesome. You're awesome.

Let's be best friends. It's like, that's not how this world works, right? There's no rescuer coming for you.

And as sad as that sounds, there's freedom in it because so many people, whether it's because they're lonely, whether it's because they're unhappy in their job, like whatever it is in life, they're waiting for someone else to come rescue them. No one's coming because everyone's waiting for someone else to come. It doesn't have to be that way because I've experienced what, you know, military spouse community can be.

And the same things that make military life hard, make it incredibly meaningful when you are in community that is supportive.

[Speaker 2]

People do, but others, I would argue maybe the smart ones, or at least the motivated ones, build it from scratch. Even if it means starting over every two years on a new continent with no familiar faces, no guarantees. I'm Tanya Kubo.

This is Find Your Freaks, the podcast for people who were never meant to fit the mold. And today's guest is the perfect example of what it means to go first. If you don't see a way, make a way.

That is Stacy Morgan right here. Now, Stacy, I have that you are an Army spouse of 25 years, Mama Force speaker and author of the book, The Astronaut's Wife, How Wanting My Husband Into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth. What year did that come out?

[Speaker 1]

That came out three years ago.

[Speaker 2]

Wow. And you are also on staff with the MomCo as an executive leadership coach.

[Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Speaker 2]

Membership manager and lead for military and online groups. And you're in a new duty station.

[Speaker 1]

Yes, I live currently. We just moved back overseas this summer. We were overseas for two years, and now we are at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, which is, listen, if we're hiding aliens, they're here.

OK, we are remote. We test everything here. It's a really cool base, but I tell you, it is small.

It is remote. 30 minute drive to get from to anything from my girls high school to Walmart. So it's a very unique place because there isn't an outside like town right outside the gate like you normally have at most duty stations.

[Speaker 2]

Wow. OK, we are going to talk a little bit more about that. But first, let's kick off the episode like we typically do.

Tell us, Stacy, who are your freaks? Why do you love them?

[Speaker 1]

Oh, that would definitely be military spouses. I love them because, listen, they're gritty. Sometimes they're dark.

You know, we have to face mortality in a different way than the average person does. We're highly independent by necessity, and we're incredibly diverse in so many ways. But the military experience across branches, across no matter how many years your spouse has been in or if you were in or all the different places you live, there's this very universal experience and this immediate bond with each other when we get together.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, I love that. And I love it when you were saying gritty. So the town I live in, we used to have an Air Force base about 15 minutes away.

And I have a client who grew up here. She's 61 now. And she talks about how, you know, whenever people would talk like when she was a teen about, oh, we just don't have the volunteer spirit here that we used to have, or it's like civic organizations just aren't as successful as they used to be.

Her parents would always say it's because they closed down the base, because military wives ran every organization in this town, and they knew how to get things done.

[Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Speaker 2]

And in conversations before, like before we started recording, you talked about how that is one way where community has historically developed around military spouses is in the leadership circle. What have you seen in almost, do we say almost 30 years? Or are we not quite close enough?

[Speaker 1]

I think quarter century. So it sounds really old. That sounds really good.

I mean, it is crazy to be a quarter century, because I don't think of myself as old, but when I think back to when my husband was a second lieutenant, right? And we were like brand new, so green, so naive, like everything's going to be amazing. At that time, the pendulum had started to swing.

However, it was just started. So we were still at one end of the spectrum where there was most definitely the mentors that I looked up to. Their spouse had joined in the 70s.

If you're a spouse, you're a white woman with a couple of kids and you're staying home. And there is a clear cultural expectation that you are a part, like you're going to get plugged in. You're going to volunteer with the spouses group.

There's going to be older spouses who organize those things, but your attendance is not required, but as close to required as you can get. Like volunteer with mandatory participation, right? Optional mandatory participation.

You're going to be there because it's important for you to be plugged in. We're going to have volunteer opportunities where we need manpower, right? There was just this expectation that you're going to be involved and love it or hate it, it created culture.

And that was a support network for a lot of spouses. Now, as time went on, so very soon after when we got in, the pendulum started to swing the other way because very slowly military culture started to catch up with real culture. And oh, shocker, there are men.

Many women are working. Many people don't have kids. They don't live on base.

They don't want to host white glove tea parties with older ladies, right? And so the actual kind of verbiage that came out from the top was you don't have to participate in anything you want to do. So it went from, you must participate if you want to help your husband's career to, because of course the assumption was you have a husband.

Then it swung all the way to the other side of, you don't have to do anything you want to do. And I understand. I think it was out of, I don't disagree with that.

You should be able to do whatever you want to do. But in that full freedom, we lost some things because some people took that at every level of the spouse community chain to be like, great, I washed my hands of this. And so the mentorship chain started to fall apart.

The place where you can naturally go and meet and connect with other spouses began to fall apart. And so you started to have this slow degradation of what used to be a really strong support network within the unofficial military community, to now it's really struggling. I mean, just as the new generation of moms come up.

So now when I talk to young military spouses in their twenties, they don't want to volunteer. And this is across the board, not just the military spouses, but culturally, very little interest in volunteering. I don't want to be a part of your philanthropic, I don't want to help you with your fundraiser.

I don't even necessarily have kids yet. So why would I care about raising money for high school senior scholarships? I don't need, I have a job.

I have outside interests. I'll just find my own friends. And that kind of works until it doesn't, because then you add in a lifestyle where you're moving every couple of years, or the harsh reality that the job your spouse has is different than the accountant down the street who never goes anywhere and doesn't have to worry about getting shot or dangerous training.

And so this idea of, oh, I've got this freedom. I don't have to be involved. What you end up with is where we sit today, which is where there is no official support network.

The old model of spouse, what they call military spouse groups is what we call. That old model still exists, but it is currently on life support with in general, stereotypically older military spouses, and we're not getting new military spouses into it. And it's not actually serving the needs of what military spouses today need in terms of community and support.

[Speaker 2]

Okay. So I see the history in that, but I'm wondering, like, what do you see as the actual impact? Because this is an interesting intersection.

Like most of us are used to, like, my husband's a teacher. I can know his coworkers. I can not know his coworkers.

Six of one, half a dozen of the others, right? Maybe I go to the Christmas party. Maybe I don't like it is his work life is so far removed from anything that I do or the girls do.

It doesn't have to be, but it can be military life though. Doesn't strike me as quite the same. I've got housing that shares the workspace.

And then of course the coworkers travel for various periods of time. The guys, I say guys, because I make those assumptions to the active duty players build close relationships with each other. And it would make sense to me that it would be easier for everybody if their spouses also had close relationships.

Yes. But the picture you just painted to me indicates that not happening. I'm just curious.

[Speaker 1]

That's right. It's not happening across the board. Like it used to be the structure that once brought every military spouse together, whether you liked it or not is gone and something has to change.

And you're right. It is what we have created. Now, what I find now is these military spouses of all ages.

And it used to be like, Oh, it's just the younger spouses who are struggling. Now I see it across all, all ages, all ranks, all branches, this increased isolation of the people around me don't understand me because you may live on base. You may live off.

If you live off base, you probably feel like your neighbors do not understand your lifestyle. All they know as time has gone on, even within the military, not everyone served in the last conflict. And so like my husband deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, the younger soldiers, their spouses did not.

There's a divide there. Right. And so credible opportunity for mentorship, but also that means there is, there's a difference in experience, right.

As you get older. And so what you have is a generation of spouses who are unhappy because they are isolated. They feel disconnected from the spouse community and their surrounding local community because my neighbors don't understand me, but I'm not connected to the unit that my husband is assigned to.

And so I'm unhappy. And the source of my unhappiness is my spouse's job. And so what's interesting about spouse contentment and connectedness is that it's not just like a, Oh, we want spouses to be happy.

It actually becomes a retention issue for the DOD, right? Because the number, they do these surveys every year of military families. And they ask service members like, what's your determination of whether or not you're staying in or not.

And a huge one that comes in the top three every year is spouse employment and whether or not the spouse is connected because, and we know that this is true because you know that if you have a job that you hate, or you go home and you're like complaining to your spouse and your spouse is also unhappy, she's like, well, let's go back home. Let's get out. You're not going to encourage you to stay in.

They're going to be like, the easiest solution is we move back home to wherever and we get out and whatever, which creates a retention problem. I know there's a lot of big voices and really smart spouses who advocate for this and trying to put the dots together to higher level military leaders that understanding spouse problems like employment and community and connectedness, this isn't just like a fun side project. You should be concerned about this because at the end of the day, that guy gets in bed with his wife and she rolls over and she goes, I want you to get out.

I don't want to do this anymore. And it doesn't have to be that way because I've experienced what military spouse community can be and the same things that make military life hard, make it incredibly meaningful when you are in community that is supportive. And when you've experienced it, you start having spouses who tell their spouse, I don't want you to get out.

You may want to, no, I want you to go do 30 years because I don't want to leave this community because it's so awesome. So that's what we want for people is to feel so connected and so unified in this unique lifestyle that they're like, yeah, I want you to do this job as long as you want to do it because I can find my people here. And that's also why people who have community retire in areas with tons of other military because they want to even in post-military life until they're 90, there are retirement homes that are only for military people and military spouses because they're like, listen, literally until the day I die, I want to be surrounded by people who understand me.

That's what it is at the core, right? I want to be surrounded by people who know me and there's no judgment. I don't have to answer a million awkward questions about deployment or death photos or who I'm giving my belongings to.

If you get killed in Afghanistan, like I don't have to explain any of those things because you were in it too, and you got it and you understand this lifestyle. And that's what I want every day from now until the end. And it makes me sad that not everybody has that.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. And so before we get to the community piece, because I think there's a lot to impact there, I'm thinking about when I worked in higher ed, people have a lot of opinions of what determines a student's ability to succeed in college, right? Some people think it has to do with whether they were coddled in their high school years or not, how academically prepared they were, blah, blah, blah.

The number one determinant of being academically successful in college and graduating within four and a half years of social fit. So to your point, it is when I look around, do I see people who look like me? Do I think these people can at least somewhat understand my experience had a similar experience?

And we think that 18 year olds don't have that, but humans are hardwired for connection. I don't think we are conscious about it until we're later as adults, but we're always looking for it. And you touched on this a little bit in your responses for listeners who really don't have familiarity with military, because I think, first of all, people stop to think about it, they would realize that they have a lot more touch points with military families than they would typically think.

But I still think a lot of people romanticize military life based on entertainment. I happen to know military romance novels, like one of the top selling books, like of all time. But what is it that you wish the average person understood about the weight that military weighs?

[Speaker 1]

That's a great question. I wish they understood that emotional burden of having to start and restart so often. And not just for the kids.

Like this transition back to the States, like it was rough. You know, we had a great two years. And then returning back to the States where like, physically it was uncomfortable.

We had to live in a hotel for a month. And then we were in our we didn't have any of our stuff for a month. And then I'm trying to process my kids into a school that is clearly like not designed to help people come in at different entry points.

Some schools with military communities do a much better job of explaining acronyms and explaining sites and stepping you through that kind of thing. And then even through all the logistics, at the end of the day, I haven't even begun to try to connect with people, while also managing my kids connecting with people. And also our identity, not being 100% dependent on what their dad does, or what my husband does.

Who am I, apart from him, but at the same time, so much of my life is dictated by what he does. And so it's just, it is a heavy burden. And I wish that people would realize it's okay to ask questions.

I think you're right. People make a lot of assumptions, positive or negative, because of movies they've watched. Either they think that every military guy has PTSD and he's just one like firework away from going berserko.

Or that he's like this blood hungry, can't wait to take revenge on somebody. He's got a set of skills and he's not afraid to use them. Right?

I'm like, most of these guys skills, paperwork. Okay. And then, or that, or that we're like these fragile people to be pitied.

And, but actually like we bring a really interesting life perspective because we've lived different places and we've experienced different ways of doing things. Like we're really valuable people to have on your team because we don't have just one way of thinking. We probably have a more diverse circle of friends and acquaintances from living different places than the average person of all just like socioeconomic status, ethnicities, all those kinds of things.

And help us jump in and then don't be afraid to ask questions about what it's like to be a military family. You're not going to scar us. You're not going to shock us.

We'd rather you ask questions and learn about our story because every story is different. Some have deployed, some haven't, depending on your job, your branch, all the kinds of things like, but please take the time to get to know us because it is, it can be isolating already. And then if nobody takes the time to ask you questions, then that can be frustrating as well.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. So there's a part of me, right? This like social justice, like there should be a law kind of person who says, okay, I can understand how just evolution of people, gender norms, stereotype roles, all that stuff has dismantled this mentorship structure that used to exist in the military spouses.

I also think the military, I mean, they know what they do. They like protect countries and stuff like that. They have a kind of a big job.

Surely they have a system in place to support families. I'm wondering as this mentorship model fell apart, I guess I'm curious, did the military support model fall apart or was the military support model actually built around the mentorship model and nobody realized that to now the whole thing was falling apart?

[Speaker 1]

It was definitely a system built on the backs of assuming that spouses were going to volunteer their time and their effort and take care of it. And so when those bodies got pulled away because they retired, those spouses are working, they don't have an interest, whatever, these huge support gaps are exposed because the old system, the old family and spouse support system was 100% propped up by the volunteer hours of current military spouses. We were in many ways what they call self-licking ice cream cone.

We are working hard to support ourselves. And then you'd have an advocate who can connect you to some decision makers, but pretty much the old system was the commander's wife was the head of all the spouses, right? And her job was to rally the troops and in whatever mission she has, support, running a thrift store, doing all the things, right?

Connecting with resources and all that stuff. And as time has shifted and demographics have shifted, that's not the case anymore. You only have to have one bachelor commander for it to fall apart.

Or you have these big gaps when there isn't a spouse or that spouse just can't or doesn't want to participate in that, right? Because she's got a full-time job or he lives in another state because that's where his job is or whatever. So yeah, the system has not repaired itself.

We have not found a new system for family and spouse support to replace the old system, which just cannot work anymore. It just can't. The world has changed and we did not evolve with it fast enough.

So now we sit in this current space of some places there's things happening, other places there's not. It's just very spotty and can vary wildly from place to place, which also breeds frustration and disappointment. You're at this awesome place and there's great support and there's mentorship and there's friendship, then you move somewhere else and it's like a ghost town.

And that can be frustrating. And I'm just really disappointing for spouses too.

[Speaker 2]

Oh yeah. Like you see that, I think that's community across the board, right? People will say, Oh, elementary school was like this.

And then if their kids go to a middle school that didn't have the same level of parent involvement, they feel a sense of betrayal. But we had this, where'd that go? So for you, I mean, you were at a brand new duty station.

So you're very much in the scenario that you have described.

[Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Speaker 2]

Brand new duty station. You've come overseas to get there. You've got kids who are school age.

You've got a husband with a big, important job. What does this all look like for you right now in the day to day?

[Speaker 1]

Well, I got here and realized pretty quickly that I needed to do something. Now it helps that my husband is the guy in charge. And listen, old stereotypes die hard, right?

I got here and the vibe from other spouses was, Oh, thank God you're here. Finally, you can tell us what to do. Because listen, no knock, the people came before us.

It was two bachelors.

[Speaker 2]

Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1]

Right. So we had four years where there was no command spouse and the old system again, was a top down, right? The commander spouse leads the leads on the front, rallies the troops, moves everybody in the same direction.

And then, Oh gosh, for four years, that person wasn't there. And there's a lot of really amazing things going on here on this base. But what I realized was nobody was talking to each other.

Nobody was organizing it because everybody was waiting for the command spouse to show up. And we've got to get my vision for community in the military going forward for spouses. We have to change.

We have to change things. We just have to, because you can't wait for someone like me to show up and tell you what to do. I have realized for a long time, like I'm a little unusual, right?

In that I own the fact that I work full time. I do all these things, but I also fully want to help everybody find this community. And I'm willing to do the work and do that.

Not everybody has the ability or the time to be able to do that. So you can't wait for someone like me to show up and be like, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to organize this new thing.

We're going to put this together. We're going to keep going. We just can't.

It doesn't work that way. So what I realized here was while it was disappointing that there wasn't any kind of organized community here, there was also an incredible opportunity to create something new. And that's what we're doing.

So I rallied a couple of key people, pretty much only two people I knew. I mean, I got here, I mean, like typical military spouse. I connected with the guy that was going to be working closely, like my husband's right-hand man.

I connected with his wife and thank goodness she's a go-getter like me. And they were in Germany. We were all the way out in the Pacific.

It could not be more opposite places on the globe, but we started connecting before we got here. And I hadn't even met her. And I was like, Hey, just so you know, you're my kid's emergency contact for school.

That's just how this is. In fact, she was like, I'm not actually showing up until three months into the school year. I'm like, not a problem.

School doesn't need to know, but it requires a name and a phone number. You're going on the list. Right.

And she and I just were like, we got to create something here. And so what we're doing here, I think we have to think differently about military spouse community. We have to, the old model, just it's on life support where it still exists.

Most places it doesn't even exist anymore. There just isn't anything. So what we're trying here, the old model was top down.

You have this leadership team, probably led by the command spouse. She's probably old like me, like she's at least a one generation away from the newest spouses. Right.

And this team drives everything. The problem with that model is that it becomes top heavy and the lower, the main participants are just passive receivers. Like you, the board will tell me what to do.

They'll create activities. I show up. What today in places where that still exists, incredibly hard to recruit new leaders for these boards.

Like I'm on this Facebook group for military spouses, group leaders, and everyone's constantly complaining about, I can't recruit new people. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not surprised because all the older people are retiring. And then the new people don't want to get involved because they go, why?

I already have a full-time job. I already have these kids. I'm doing both.

Why would I also kill myself for this, this job? So they can't recruit any leaders. And what in many cases, what started as a support structure, like a way to get connected to others, they added extra things on that were good things like scholarships, thrift stores, all kinds of fundraisers.

And then the focus over time shifted away from support to philanthropy. And as soon as you go into philanthropy, oh my gosh, the tax reporting, because anybody who's run a 501c3 knows what a headache that is. Now add it onto a military installation and you just created why you would put yourself into that third circle of hell.

I do not know. Like it's just, it's a nightmare. The paperwork is a nightmare.

That's the second number one, second complaint that all these groups have. They're drowning in tax requirements, audits, all this kind of crap. And then they can't find leaders.

And so consequently they've strapped weights to themselves over decades of this old model and they're drowning, right? If they aren't already drowned. So this new model that we've proposed here, and we've just got, we're only like a month into it, still- Yeah, heard it here first, folks.

It's a bottom up. So what we do is there's three of us and that's it. And so to join a spouse group, traditionally you have to pay dues.

And then there's always traditionally like everybody's complaints about drama, like officers versus enlisted and older versus younger. And which neighborhood do you live in on base and blah, blah, blah. No.

And the younger spouses also don't want anything to do with that. I got enough drama in my life. I don't need any of that.

So we've literally created a logo that kind of mirrors what we've been doing for a long time. Our installation logo, and then it has two rockers, one on top, one on the bottom, and it says no dues, no drama. So we don't touch money because, hey, philanthropy is great, but not for us.

We're singularly focused on support and support only. And we're not going to let ourselves get bogged down in 501C3 audits, taxes, all that kind of crap. The way you get away with not doing that is they just don't touch money.

So everything we do is free, open to everybody. So how do you become a member? You just get on our email list.

That's it. It's an online Google form. And we have a Facebook group.

And then what we did is we tell everybody, hey, if you're doing something cool, so instead of the board, there's no board. It's just three people. We pretty much manage that email list and the Facebook group.

We're the Facebook admins to make sure it doesn't go sideways. If you have an interest and you like doing something, then what we want you to do is create an interest group underneath our spouse group umbrella. But we don't run it like you do, the regular member.

So like right now, we have a pickleball club and a crafting club. I love that they're totally different. Each has a person who's like, I love playing pickleball, but this is what currently happens when you don't have any kind of structure to bring community together.

Suzy loves pickleball. So what's she going to do? She's going to go on the base Facebook page and she's going to be like, does anybody want to play pickleball?

And people go, who the heck is this? I'm not going to show up and play pickleball with some rando. Like, I don't know who this is, you know, whatever.

Right. So then nobody shows up and then Suzy's disappointed. She has nobody to play pickleball with.

However, if she brings it under the umbrella of our spouse's group, now it's not Suzy's random pickleball get together. It's the White Sands Spouses Group Pickleball Club hosted by Suzy. So now people are interested in joining because it's vetted and it's not going to Suzy's pickleball club.

I'm going to the Spouses Group Pickleball Club and now I feel more comfortable going. It's free. It's open to everybody and she can host it as often as you want.

And I, as the like leader of this three person team, totally hey, freedom to you, Suzy, as long as you follow some very basic guidelines, which is don't do anything illegal, don't do anything embarrassing to us and don't charge any money because we're not talking. We cannot touch money. That's what this is.

So it's a community. And so you can have our hope is that in the next year, we will have dozens of interest groups of all types from book clubs to walking clubs, to stroller groups, to crafting clubs, pickleball, bird watching, bowling, name it. We'll have a group so that when you show up here and you ask them, how do I get connected?

Like, ah, you just join that email list and you join that Facebook group and then you can join any of those things. And that's how you meet people. And there's no money.

There's no drama. And the awesome thing about it, and this is the part that I love the best, is that we don't need you. Like the problem with the old model is it's drowning because the leaders are desperate because they're like, we need you.

We need bodies. We need your money. We need you to work at this fundraiser or in the thrift shop.

And we can say, listen, we have no tolerance for drama. You start causing trouble or whatever, you're out of here. You're off the roster because we don't actually need you.

We don't need your money. You're not leading the group, you know, either abide by our guidelines, which is like fun and support and that's it. And anything other than that, otherwise pound sand, buddy, we don't need you.

And I think it's just, it's a complete upside down way of the old model. And honestly, I think it's the future of what we have to have going forward because the focus has to be solely 100% connected community and everything else. Those are great things, but they're just not what we're going to do.

And that's what we need on every base.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. So I have to ask, like, where'd you get this idea? Cause it's a complete inversion of the old model, but the Stacey, I know I didn't, I don't see you like drawing a little funnel and then going, Oh, what would happen if we put the funnel sideways?

Let's turn it this way. Right? So like what made you go, huh?

Instead of doing it this way, what if we just flipped it upside down?

[Speaker 1]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I do, I read a lot of leadership books, you know, in my job, I think a lot about organizational practices and studying the old model.

We had to do something. I was like, we have to think differently. We have to one, because I'm selfishly, I don't have time to lead or handle audits or all that other crap though.

I'm like, I have no interest in doing that. And if we want this to survive into the future, it has to be like the future is it's got to be light and nimble and flexible and it has to be member led and not like where members are like the community itself is driving the content and what's happening. Not some small group of people who, you know, are now stressed and exhausted.

And honestly, maybe don't even have a good thumb on the pulse of what the community of those, especially younger spouses want and need in their life.

[Speaker 2]

What you've developed it. I saw this university is many times like a small city that people will support that, which they help create. Yes.

Interests do drive a lot of motivation. So when you can put people in small groups around shared interests, everybody has a better time.

[Speaker 1]

Everyone does. And then, so we also, we have these interest groups and so they'll meet. Those are for people who want to lead something on a regular basis.

Right. But I also found that there's a lot of people who are very passionate about things, but they don't want to do it all the time. And so we also have this special events category.

And so I had this woman come to me and she was like, I'm really passionate about sound therapy. And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And she was like, I have these bowls for people who would know that they know it's these bowls, like these kind of Tibetan bowls.

I watched the video. I was like, okay, this is like totally like weird, but I love it. Right.

[Speaker 2]

Right.

[Speaker 1]

Whatever. Right. And she's like, I want to lead a sound therapy night.

Now, does she want to lead that weekly? Of course not. And if you tried to do that all the time, people would be like, no, your attendance would dwindle off.

And I think that's one of the traps that a lot of people, when they create community also fall into, which they think that if you're going to start something, it has to be like on the regular, we're going to like make this something that happens weekly, monthly, whatever. And I was like, actually, a lot of people just want to do a one-time thing or twice a year, maybe quarterly tops. So let's let them do it.

And so literally, I was like, great, let's do it. Again, nobody wants to show up to Beth's sound therapy. Is Beth going to murder me?

Like what is happening? Right. But so she sets it up.

She went, I was like, find a place, pick a time, pick a day, whatever you want, and then we'll help you push out the interest. And it goes under our umbrella and our little, I'll make a little graphic for a little logo on it. Like now it's come join us for a sound therapy night with the Whismur spouses group.

Now, you know, I'm probably not going to get murdered. It's vetted. It's interesting.

And it's great. It's happening next week here. And someone else wants to do a yoga class once a quarter.

Someone else wants to do, you know, like a line dancing lesson. That's awesome. Are people going to show up for line dancing lessons every week?

No, but they will twice a year for a fun, like event. And so I think you have to flip community on its head. And like you said, you have to figure out a way so that the people, if the community itself is deciding, what do I want?

And then I got to be willing to put some skin in the game. And part of that is explaining to people, like, if you want it, you got to be willing to host it. Like, we'll help you.

But enough of this culture of complaining about what doesn't exist. And instead, let's find a way that you can give back in even just some small way. And in a way that feels good to you, because it's interesting to you, it fits your schedule, it builds this community that you claim to want so badly, and which we all do.

And then when you do that, inspire someone else to do that. And then together, we build this thing instead of being like, no one's building this for me. I'm sad.

Nobody wants to do this fundraiser with me. Boo. No, no one.

Everyone hates fundraising. Everyone.

[Speaker 2]

That is true. That is true. I run a nonprofit.

Everybody hates fundraising, even the people who run nonprofits sometimes. So what's been the early feedback? What have you heard so far?

[Speaker 1]

It's been nothing but positive. And I think it's now we know we're gonna this is totally different than what people have experienced if they've been in the military for more than five minutes. And so we know it's going to take some time to like, in essence, convince people that this is different.

We've got two groups going now we get the special event next week, we got a special event the month after that, and the more you do it, then people are like, Oh, I get it now. And so they need to see it. And and then it'll start to snowball.

But I had an open house. And I invited every spouse in the entire community to show up. And after we had a few drinks and ate some cookies, I gave a presentation on here's the vision.

And here's what we're gonna do. Here's the basic guidelines. And it's revolutionarily simple.

I told them, like, I'm gonna explain this to you. And you're gonna be like, duh, like, it's gonna feel so simple. And that's why it's revolutionary in its simplicity.

And also, you have to let go of control of it. The old model made sense, but it was like, it's overly controlled by this leadership board. And then you just lose it over time.

It just you just can't. So now, you know, you got to be willing to be like, Hey, I'm not interested in that. But I bet other people might be.

Yeah, let's do it.

[Speaker 2]

Well, and that's the thing, because it's not driven by you, you don't have to be interested. I love that you don't have to be with everything. And it doesn't fall apart when one of the three of you who got it started, moves on.

[Speaker 1]

Exactly. So when my time here is done, instead of being like, I need to recruit a board president who's willing to fulfill this giant list of requirements, and all this kind of stuff, instead of, hey, can you manage an email list? Can you be an admin of a Facebook group?

Can you just make sure nobody's doing anything illegal in these interest groups? It's so simple that anybody could do it. And it but it does require in the rethinking of it, like that we're not going to do these things that traditionally spouses groups have been doing.

And that's a hard thing for some people to understand. But I believe it's the future of where it has to go.

[Speaker 2]

Now has the military had a hard time with this shift?

[Speaker 1]

Well, what's interesting is, I think the old model allowed the military, and I use that term in the kind of like official structured paid, to not provide certain services that they should have been. And now that support structure has eroded, those gaps have appeared. And yet in this environment of budget cuts, and personnel problems, and whatever, there are these gaps.

And then the DoD, the Pentagon, whatever is not currently equipped to meet these needs. As we had talked about prior to this, you know, there's no spouse at the decision making table, right? And so if you don't have a seat at the table, your voice is not really considered when it comes to things that are going to affect you in some very real ways.

No, they have not adjusted.

[Speaker 2]

They'll figure it out, right?

[Speaker 1]

I mean, there are, I should say this, there are so many really good advocacy nonprofits out there, and they do amazing work. And I also think let's not reinvent the wheel, right? I look at Blue Star Families, I look at Military Spouse Advocacy Group, and they're doing amazing work.

And their job, their mission statement is to collect the input of military spouses and push it up to Congress, to the White House, to Pentagon and advocate at that like legislative and regulation level. Great. I'm so glad they're passionate about that.

My mission is local community building. And I'm going to create what I need. And I'm going to invite other people to join me in it.

And hopefully, it also becomes what they need and something that they can multiply going to other places. I think the goal should not be not just that you don't feel bad, but that in creating that community you need, you bring other people into it so that it multiplies for others as well. Like not waiting, creating.

And then in doing so, it spreads, and then it multiplies everywhere you go.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, I love that. Okay, before we run out of time, I do want you to talk a little bit about your book, The Astronaut's Life. I'm assuming you're okay with that.

[Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Speaker 2]

Well, I've read it. I think I was like unofficially on the book launching just in that I followed everything that the book launching did. And I will just, spoiler, my favorite part's the T-Rex.

T-Rex, absolute favorite part of the whole book. I was just like, I want to be her when I grow up, but I sweat. So I'm not going to wear the T-Rex costume.

But I want to start off with, okay, your husband goes off into space, which not many of us can actually say we even have a remote idea of what that's like. There are a million and one things you can do when it is your job to parent children and all of this stuff while your husband's in space. What made you decide, oh, let me add a book to the mix?

[Speaker 1]

That's a good question. Okay. So we probably should clarify.

My husband is in the Army. He has been in the Army for 25 years. Active duty military, just any civilian, when NASA has a window to apply to become an astronaut, can apply.

And so he's also a NASA astronaut. It was for 10 years. We lived in Houston for 10 years.

So our military journey has been unusual in that he was commissioned and then went to medical school. He's a medical doctor. And then we worked in the special forces community for a long time.

And then we worked at NASA for 10 years. And then he was still on active duty, but that was a kind of a whole different lifestyle. We were like assigned to NASA.

And then he did fly in space for nine months. He had a nine month mission. And then after he came back from space, we transitioned back into leadership in the Army, commanded overseas the last two years, and now he's commanding here.

There was a period of time where he and his two crewmates were the only three people on the planet, because he was off the planet, who hadn't been affected by COVID because it all hit while they were in space. And he came back and I did this podcast with a... I made a friend and I didn't really know a ton about her when I became her friend.

And little did I know she had this massive podcast and is now like a New York Times bestselling author. But we did a podcast together about just the unique experience of living with a spouse in space and what that's all about. And then because of my appearance on her podcast, it opened up some doors to write this book.

So I did not intend to do that. I kept some journaling of some stories and I encourage every military spouse to do that, because they're just things that happen as a military spouse. You're like, if I didn't write this down, you wouldn't believe it, right?

Just write those things down, even if for nothing else than a record for your kids to learn about what your life was like during that time. And so I started writing it. So my husband was home.

He had just gotten back. We were locked down at the house. And doesn't that feel like a million years ago that we were locked in the house, even though it wasn't that long ago.

It was like five years ago. Everybody was looking for something to do to keep themselves sane. And so I ended up getting a contract to write this book.

And so as difficult as the pandemic was, there were some real opportunities in it, at least for me. I don't know if it wasn't for the pandemic and the fact that I could not go anywhere. I don't know that I would have had the self-discipline to sit and crank this book out.

It also helped that I was under a contract that kept me really working hard because it's a grind. Book writing is an absolute grind. Anybody who tells you that it's just like them sitting and staring out the window delightedly is lying to you.

It is a grind. You have to have a really thick skin. But it was a really good process for me to sit and just put thoughts to paper and then have to figure out how to tell that story and in a way that is relevant to everybody, whether you're military or not.

And I do want to add because I always like to get this in there. All of my 100% of my book proceeds, I set up a 501 something trust. So all of my book proceeds go into that and that money is donated to charities that support military families.

And I just like to make sure that gets out there because talking about your own book sometimes can be a little cringey because you're like advertising for yourself. And I like to get that out there. So it's listen, I'm not even keeping the money, right?

I hope you read it. If you read it and you hate it, the worst thing that happened is you just gave a few bucks to military families. If you love it, buy 10 copies, buy 100 copies and put a few more bucks towards military families.

But it really is, it became a passion project more than like some kind of business prospect for me. And so it's really a joy to talk about it because it was really cool.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. So first question, do you know how much you've raised for military families yet?

[Speaker 1]

So I put a huge part, the majority of my book advance into that. So to date, so I have money. The nice thing about it is I can keep it in there and as opportunities arise, I can do it.

There's no timeline of having to dole it out by a certain date. But to date, I've given away $10,000 of that money to charities that support military families. And it's great.

So, you know, obviously the more copies I sell, hopefully I will sell, I will, for people who aren't familiar yet, you're paying off your advance for a long time, depending on how long and how big that advance was. And so need people to buy a lot of books available on Kindle, on audio book, on hardcover, softcover, get it anywhere.

[Speaker 2]

We will link it every time we talk about this episode, we will buy books, we will do all the things in order to get more books because military families, as this whole episode has discussed, really need support. And there's not a lot of infrastructure for that. Yeah, I want to share what I want to say the word impress, but that's not really accurate.

What I found most interesting about your book is because a book like that a book that's all about how you're spending basically a year away from your husband and how life is going on without them. And there's really no way to pull them into it, right? In like an accurate way.

That book could have gone a lot of directions. And the fastest track to a bestseller would have been to talk about all the hardship and how awful it was. And people love a good revenge memoir.

[Speaker 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2]

Right. And it wasn't it was the most positive, hope filled book, not that there wasn't hardship mentioned, right? So oh my gosh, it was the best thing ever.

If we could just do that forever, we would. That had to be your decision. Because I think a publisher would have jumped on the idea of having it be a lot more negative, and a lot more hard in a heartbeat.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, I'm sure I could probably make a lot more money get a lot more attention if it was some kind of sexy tell all. I mean, it's like if any organization, there's always dirt, you can dish right, I can write a book called so and so is a real jerk, like spill all the beans, because you can't work anywhere and be part of like, I was the president of the astronaut spouses group for the entire time that we were there for 10 years. And so intrinsically involved in everybody's life, and you really do become the astronaut corps is not very big.

And so you know, everybody's life and laundry and career highs and lows and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, you can always go negative. And the same thing with on the military side, you know, in the book, I talked about what we were doing while drew is in space.

And but I also hearken a lot of stories back to time in his deployments, because a lot of similarities in some of those things. And like, yeah, like you said, I didn't whitewash the fact that it was hard, we dealt with death, and disconnection and difficulties in connection with other people and community, all the things that make the lifestyle hard. But at the end of the day, are you gonna sit in that?

Or are you gonna like, what are you gonna do? What do you get? What are you gonna do now?

And I think one of the lessons that I try to teach in there is there's no rescuer coming for you. Right? Like, and as sad as that sounds it, there's freedom in it.

Because so many people, whether it's because they're lonely, whether it's because they're unhappy in their job, they like whatever it is in life, they're waiting for someone else to come rescue them. Like, why is it? Why am I?

Why don't I have friends? How come no one's like beating down my door to be to be my friend? No one's coming.

Because everyone's waiting for someone else to come. And it's one of the chapters in the beginning I talk about how I hit this like rock bottom, I was so lonely. And I'm crying in the YMCA parking lot, we'd hit rock bottom at that point.

And I called my friend who lived on the other side of the country. And she listened, she was so great. And then she said, So what are you gonna do about it?

And I was like, what? I'm calling you.

[Speaker 2]

Like, what do you mean?

[Speaker 1]

I was like, I'm the victim. I shouldn't have to do anything. And and we carry that mentality everywhere we go.

This life is too hard. I don't want a single parent while my husband's away. I can't have any friends.

I'm like, and it's boohoo me who so who's gonna come and help me and it's okay, have your pity party. But then what are you gonna do about it? And that question, it changed everything.

It changed how I found friendships there. It changed how I viewed whose responsibility is it? Whose job is it to make me happy?

It's no, no one's but my own, you know, you know, I have a tattoo on my wrist from Esther, you know, the voice of like, you know, for such a time as this, everybody should have this tattooed on. I'm a little biased, but I think everybody should have this tattooed on. Because it's like, yeah, you were put in this place at this time.

And instead of being like, and this sucks. It's like, what's your role here? And not only improving your life, finding friends, creating community and all those things doing meaningful work.

But how can you do that in a way that draws others into the story with you? And expanding that for everybody. And when you do that, it only changes your perspective, it'll probably be the most favorite place you've ever lived, no matter where it is, or what the job was, or any of the other variables.

Because in the truth, none of those things actually are what make you happy. It's the relationships you make and how meaningful the work you're doing there is. And that's up to you, whether or not you use that time wisely.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. So for the person who's listening and going, yeah, I want this community. And maybe they've been sitting back, like waiting to be rescued.

I love how you put that. Oh, some people come and save me. Where do you suggest they start?

[Speaker 1]

You got to get out of your house. I mean, literally, you got to get out of your house. That's always step one.

And I'm like, depending on the climate where you live, figure out what time of day it is that people go outside. And just start, take your dog for a walk, take your kids for a walk, walk by yourself, take your earbuds out and go for a walk and start talking to your neighbors. And I say this with no judgment, because I did this.

I sat in my house for six months thinking that some magical person who somehow would know I existed, even though I was doing nothing to make myself known, was going to call me up and be like, do you want to be best friends? I'm awesome. You're awesome.

Let's be best friends. That's not how this world works, right? So step one, you got to get out and go where people are and go where people who do things that you find interesting go.

So if you're really into arts and crafts, go to a place where people are doing arts and crafts. If you're really into physical fitness, flip and go to the gym, right? If you're into reading, go to the library.

If your faith is important to you, then get plugged in to a local church and join a small group. But you got to get out of your house. And it's going to feel like you're going first, but you just got to keep putting yourself out there.

And so that's step one, is you have to get out of your house. No one's going to come pounding down your door. It just doesn't exist.

No one will even come and ring your doorbell and introduce themselves when you move into a neighborhood anymore. Like back in the day, that was the stereotype in the military that you got moved on base and someone's going to show up. And I think that was true 50 years ago.

But here's what I say. So you do it. Like how awesome would it be to have a revival of people who show up at someone's house like your own little military welcome wagon with a plate of cookies and an old school three by five card with your name and your spouse's name and your kids' names and ages on it and your email address.

Like if that's what you want, which I think most of us want. We want to know our neighbors. We want to feel like we're part of something, part of a community that feels safe and warm and welcoming.

Okay, what are you going to do about it? That's what you want. What are you going to do about it?

Guess what? There's no like government organization coming in to do that. There's no government welcome wagon, right?

So why not you for such a time as this? Maybe it's you, right? Maybe it's you.

And do it. Like the risk is so much less than our brain tells us it is. What's the worst thing that happens?

The person's thanks, grabs the cookies, and slams the door in your face. Okay, on to the next house. You just got to get out there, literally and figuratively.

You got to get out of your house and just start introducing yourself to people.

[Speaker 2]

Get out of your house, talk to people.

[Speaker 1]

Yes. Get out of your house, talk to people, and don't be afraid to show up not knowing anybody. So if you see something going on, a book club, a walking group, my daughter is so good at this.

I wish, I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I had this ability to do things when I was her age. She will walk up and introduce herself to other people and be like, so what are you doing here? And then they'll be like, oh, we're doing this.

And she's like, great, can I join you? And you're like, oh my gosh, like the audacity, the boldness. Really, it's not like it's so simple.

She introduces herself. She asks if she can join them. It's, again, revolutionary in its simplicity.

We've lost the ability to do the basics, and that's what we got to do.

[Speaker 2]

Okay. All right. So now this brings us to my favorite part.

I don't know if it's anybody else's favorite part. Nobody has been like, oh my gosh, Tanya, that is my favorite part of your show. I should say all the ways to reach Stacey are going to be in the show notes.

They'll be on the website. Trust me, just DM me anywhere. Like Fungus, I'm everywhere.

I will put you in contact with Stacey directly. But now we have the freak flag slide. So this is a quick round.

It's five fast questions. There are no wrong answers. Just answer whatever comes to mind.

The first one is complete the sentence. You're my kind of freak.

[Speaker 1]

If you like to laugh, if you can laugh at yourself, you can laugh at yourself. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

Yes. That's a good one. What's something you love that your friends just don't get?

[Speaker 1]

Leadership books.

[Speaker 2]

I get that. I like leadership books.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

You and me, we can have our book club of two.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah. It's a little intense. I get it.

[Speaker 2]

What community would you infiltrate just to understand it better?

[Speaker 1]

I think the people who are really into renaissance fairs and they do the full like Henry VIII costume where they grow a beard all year and they gain 20 pounds so they can fill it out. And then the woman next to her, she's got hair down to her butt because that was traditional. Like the all in renaissance fair people.

[Speaker 2]

All right. Ren fairs. That is a first.

Nobody has said Ren fair community first. I like that. Okay.

What tool, ritual or practice helps you stay connected to your people?

[Speaker 1]

Marco Polo. I'm a big fan of Marco Polo app. I got introduced to this when my husband was in space.

I talk about in the book when you're single parenting and things are hard. I couldn't call people because it was like, I'm not free when you're free. I don't actually have time to stop what I'm doing and have a conversation with, but I still want to be connected with you.

And for people who aren't aware, Marco Polo is a free app. You can upgrade for money, whatever. But you send a video message to someone else and they can watch it whenever they want.

And then they send you one back. So it's like sending voice mails, but you get to see the person's face too. And sometimes with friends, like I've seen my friends in towels, they've done it on walks, like, yeah, but something about seeing the face and I'm just, it's just different than if you got a text or an email or, but it really helps.

I think I have about six different active threads with six different people right now. And some of them, it's only like once a month or whatever, but others it's like multiple times a day because we're BS and about stuff at work or stuff between other people. But yeah, I love it.

[Speaker 2]

Okay. And the last question, who is someone doing freakishly good work that you think deserves a bigger stage?

[Speaker 1]

Oh, that's a really good question. Uh, I'm a big fan of Sharon. What's her last name?

She has, she already has a bigger stage, but she's on social media and she's that civics professor who Sharon McMahon and she, I mean, she's not a small name by any stretch, but I love how she is educational teaching civics, which unfortunately, like you can't say you're not into politics anymore. It's impossible.

[Speaker 2]

Right.

[Speaker 1]

And, but she does it in such like, do you ever watch, like she'll have stories on Instagram, she'll have like story all about the newest constitutional crisis. And then she'll have a post about like her dog and then a whale and then something. So I like that she's still a real person.

And I think she's doing God's work in just helping lower temperatures through explaining things in a very neutral way. And we need more people like her in the world in every, not just in politics, but we need some people like Sharon in every genre who can just explain things to people with no judgment and easily pretend I was out sick that week in sixth grade when that was explained in class or whatever. Yeah.

I do think she's awesome.

[Speaker 2]

I feel like she makes a lot more sense than my government teacher did in high school. I was like, Oh, that's what he was trying to tell me. Okay.

[Speaker 1]

This makes sense. Yes. There's so many things.

I'm like, was I sick that week? I don't remember any of this. And I consider myself a pretty educated person.

Like how am I just learning this right now? Like, Oh, I get it. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

I was listening I learned. Yeah. Stacy, our time has come to an end, but I just want to say thank you.

Thank you, first of all, for shining some light into a segment of the population that we are all surrounded with, but very rarely do we actually get to see how it works. But also for sharing what I think is a great model for anybody who is looking around and feeling like the spirit of community is fractured in their local environment. Because what you've shared with us today, this idea that one, you can go first and two, like you don't have to be in charge of everything, right?

You just need to find a couple of people who are interested in the same stuff you are and get that going. And then maybe more can branch off from that. So I think that is something that doesn't matter who you are, where you live, what you do, anybody could take that and make it their own and actually see great success.

So thank you again, Stacy. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]

Thank you for asking me to be here. It's always super fun to talk to you, Tanya.

[Speaker 2]

That's it for this episode of Find Your Freaks. To help more weirdos find their way here, subscribe, rate, and leave a review. And if you're craving connection, join the Freak Show at findyourfreaks.com.

What makes you weird makes you wonderful. Normal was never the point.