Shownotes
We hope you're well and enjoying the spring sunshine! Here's a quick rundown of what Norm and Brett covered this week:
- Letitia James Fraud Allegations: The tables have turned as New York's Attorney General Letitia James finds herself under scrutiny. After prosecuting Trump, she's now facing accusations from the Federal Home Loan Administration regarding her own mortgage irregularities. Is it a case of "turnabout is fair play"? Dive into the details as Norm and Brett unpack this unfolding story.
- Chillicothe Paper Mill Closure: It's a tough time for the folks in Chillicothe as the historic paper mill announces its closure, affecting 800 jobs. Norm voices his concerns about the state’s response and the implications for local communities. What should Ohio's leaders be doing to save these essential jobs?
- Yost in Pharma War: Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost takes a bold stance against Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs), joining forces with other state AGs to advocate for legislative changes. Could this lead to more affordable pharmaceuticals for Ohioans? Norm and Brett explore this complex issue.
- Market Madness: The unpredictable nature of Wall Street traders has our hosts questioning the professionals at play. With markets recently taking a rollercoaster ride, Brett and Norm discuss what this means for everyday investors and the economy.
- Spotlight on Local and National Headlines: The episode also dives into other intriguing topics like road rage incidents, outrageous legal stories, and the latest economic news that's affecting us all.
As always, a huge thank you Harper CPA Plus for sponsoring this insightful episode. They are the go-to experts for simplifying taxes and empowering entrepreneurs.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy®, is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Copyright 2025 Common Sense Ohio
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Transcripts
This is Common Sense Ohio. Hey. This is Brett. Norm's with me. Steve, again, is out saving the world this week, which is a good thing, a very good thing. Common Sense Ohio brought to you by Harper and Company, CPAs. They're helping entrepreneurs like you simplify taxes, implement proactive strategies, enjoy, and, all of the while to help you enjoy that entrepreneur journey. You know, even though, you know, businesses don't really will on that, April 15 tax cycle, it is a good time to kind of take a look because we're in the April.
Brett Johnson [:And do you like you working with the current CPA you've got? If not, give Harper CPA, a jingle. Go to harpercpa+.com and give them an interview. What do you got to lose? Few minutes, half hour, hour? You'll love Glenn. If nothing else, you'll you'll be gut laughing by the end of the interview. So give them a shot. We got a lot of stuff. Tom, let's talk let's jump into headlines.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So, what, what caught my eye, in the last couple of days is a hoist by her own petard type of story involving
Brett Johnson [:Is that your phrasing?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. Yes. Right. Like, a knight a knight who, sticks his lance into the ground and ends up getting ejected off his horse. Leticia James, who is the attorney general of New York State, famously campaigned about, going after Trump. I mean, she campaigned on that as and and that's probably wasn't legitimate, actually, to do that. I I would think the New York Bar Association would go after somebody who campaigns that they're gonna put somebody else in jail as a campaign promise. But at any rate, she, as you know, accused and successfully prosecuted Trump along with, Alvin Bragg, the, New York City, prosecutor, Trump for allegedly overstating the value of Mar A Lago in order to get favorable mortgage terms.
Norm Murdock [:And there were something like 37 counts, and they elevated it into a felony somehow. And he ended up getting a judgment against him for a half a billion dollars, so it's under appeal. But the same person, Leticia James, has now been accused by the Federal Home Loan Administration. They have sent a referral to the FBI to have her investigated, and, documents are floating around on the Internet of her mortgage application where she states in in the state of Virginia, where she so she's a full time New York, attorney general. She, in the mortgage application, states that she is a Virginia resident, and she's living in this house in Virginia full time in order to get a good terms on her mortgage application. More or less, except for a few details, more or less what she accused Trump of doing, she allegedly has done herself. So, you know Hopefully, she's living there
Brett Johnson [:six months out of the year or what you know, what is the legal well,
Norm Murdock [:it depends on what the Virginia state's
Brett Johnson [:a legal resident is, I guess.
Norm Murdock [:Well, it's it's it's not about that. It's about I mean, you
Brett Johnson [:know what I mean, that piece of it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But it's it's not about being a citizen of the state. It's about it's about on the mortgage saying that you're living there full time.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:That's a different that's a different person Yeah. You're making the promise to. So at any rate, we'll see how that shakes out. We'll see if the FBI and the Department of Justice decide to pick this up. My guess is my hunch is that they will. Yeah. You know, the turnabout is fair play and, manner, hey. She she wants to play with the big dogs.
Norm Murdock [:You know?
Brett Johnson [:Gotta keep keep your house in in order.
Norm Murdock [:Keep your you know? Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, come on. Eese. So Eee. Yeah. One of the, some of the more, national stories we had, on the tariffs, you know, the the big dip last week in the stock market, and then it's roared back in the last few days, you know, restoring some of the losses people had.
Norm Murdock [:And I, you know, I question whether they're really professionals on Wall Street, the traders. They seem like a bunch of nervous children that every time somebody, you know, does anything that that ruffles their feathers, they all go into a selling spree. And it they seem like lemons to lemmings to me. Like, they they follow each other.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's definitely based on fear. I mean, what Wall Street always has been is the it's it's, you know, you make your money on the fear. Right. Honestly, you do. You know? And
Norm Murdock [:I mean, otherwise, Brett, how can you explain that they lose 10% of the market, right, one one day? And then the next day, it comes up 5%.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Like, you know, it's like, guys, the same conditions exist. You know, it's just some verbiage out of the White House, and then you freak out, and then you and then you feel better. And it's like, aren't you people professionals? Like, don't you you know, at any rate Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Well, if nothing else, it's it's possibly teaching we investors, which, again, you mentioned, I think we brought up a specific, percentage last time of, you know, only maybe 20% of us really dabble in the market. Yeah. We just have to have hard skin to this.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. 1010% of the population
Brett Johnson [:That is
Norm Murdock [:owns 80% of the stock market.
Brett Johnson [:That it does come back, maybe not as quickly as we want, but it does come back. I mean and it hey. It freaked me out too. I was like, okay. Yeah. It dips down. How long will the dip be? Will it continue to dip down? Right. But it does come back up.
Brett Johnson [:You can't always count on it, of course, but it's that we just have to I mean, I guess, all depends on your age. I mean, if you're 80 and living off of that, that's a different story.
Norm Murdock [:It's a casino.
Brett Johnson [:But but but it's a it is a casino.
Norm Murdock [:It's a casino. I you know, the idea, I guess, of people anticipating that it's always gonna go up, I mean, that's a bad assumption. Right. Right. Right? So
Brett Johnson [:You always have to have the lows to get the good deals.
Norm Murdock [:They say And
Brett Johnson [:then the highs, when and, hopefully, you you time it out right. You you tap out when it's high and take your money and run.
Norm Murdock [:But you gotta you gotta diversify. You you have to have Oh, yeah. Because you have to have savings and other things. You you especially as you get older, you can't just keep playing the casino, with the most aggressive stocks that you're picking. You know, you gotta go with some annuities Yeah. Some savings in the bank, some cash reserves.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know. You buy a chunk of gold and put it under your mattress.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, no.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know what you wanna do, but, you know, the stock market, you you just can't count on it continually going up. Yeah. So at any rate, 10 countries have come back, and this is part of the good news, I guess, the stock market's reacting to, is that something like 75 or 80 countries have contacted, the the secretary of the treasury and the secretary of the commerce departments and have said that they wanna have, negotiations. So that's good. Ten ten of them, are said to have deals that may be finalized in the next, few days or weeks. So, that's all good. And I I think that's a calming factor, and, certainly, we all want that. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, sure.
Brett Johnson [:And and to settle down so we can do business. Yeah. Because right now, it's it's very difficult to if you if you your your business and yours does, up a little bit, relying on import export of of of just getting you know, not you're not manufacturing, but you're getting stuff from another country, you know, sort of thing. It's hard to plan. And it's it's it's, you know It's challenging. It's challenging. It just is. And and, and the budget and to know how this year's gonna come out.
Brett Johnson [:It's, but but that's good. It's a we we've gotta get, these countries to say yes, say no, whatever they wanna do, and then, you know, then the next step, then the next step. But just kind of equal it out.
Norm Murdock [:Right. I I mean, I hope it's zero tariffs, for each country in these deals. But, you know, I do believe, you know, like, some of these countries that have 20% tariffs, Trump, at least in the interim period, is going with 10% across the board except for China. So we're still at a disadvantage, but I think that's during this ninety day pause where he has laid down 10% across the board, which is a lot less than the 25% that he was threatening, across the board. So now it's 10%, which is a lot less. Yeah. So, that's good. That's good.
Norm Murdock [:I I'd like a president who is not worried about losing face, that will change his mind, that looks at, you know, people's reaction on Wall Street, people's reaction on Main Street, and is willing to change things. And people wanna say, oh, he backed out and won a cat. They wanna make it sound like it's a negative. I think it's a positive if if if, if if you're not so locked in to your position that you won't change. So I like the fact that there's some flexibility being shown here even as he's being very tough in trying to restructure, these relationships. So, he's not as stubborn as a lot of people thought he was gonna be on this. And whether you wanna call it backing out, I really don't care. It's I'm glad he's changing his mind on some of these things.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Because we we would look we would be in a we would not be having the same conversation today at this moment if he if he That's right. Wasn't changing his mind. Right. However it's labeled. That's right.
Brett Johnson [:Then there
Norm Murdock [:that's Label it any way you want.
Brett Johnson [:That's very true. I mean, and and those that call him, you know, flip flop or whatever the case might be. Fine. Fine. Call it. Call him. Call everyone. It could be a lot worse and and again, it's not perfect.
Brett Johnson [:It certainly isn't. Everybody's feeling some pain. Yeah. But at least he's changing his mind. Thank goodness.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So I guess it's kinda like, my teacher could say I flip flopped in algebra when I went from being a poor student to a good student. So, you know, characterize it any way you want. I think that there is this story about this guy from El Salvador that lived in The United States for eleven years, has three kids, has a wife. Allegedly, he he is he's been beating her according to the you know, some of the neighbors. So, you've they wanna call him a Maryland dad and, you know, and all this stuff. But he's an illegal immigrant, and he was found to be a member of the MS thirteen gang by two immigration courts. The final court, though, bought into his claim that he was gonna get beat up in El Salvador if he was deported back there because a rival gang, would, would harm him.
Norm Murdock [:And so a judge said, okay. You can deport this guy, but not to El Salvador. So what did immigration do? They made a mistake. They sent him to El Salvador. The president of El Salvador said on Monday in the Oval Room that at at the White House that he is not sending this guy back. This guy's a citizen of El Salvador. The Bacucci, it said, I'm the president of El Salvador. I'm not sending this guy back.
Norm Murdock [:He's our citizen. I'm not sending him back. We're going to go ahead and process him, either release him or keep him in prison for whatever crimes he's done in El Salvador. So, that's where we are on this, but it seems to have become a cause celeb, in Hollywood and with the two senators from the state of Maryland. So Cory Booker and, Van Hollen are going to El Salvador to plead their case to the president there of El Salvador to release this guy back to The United States. And the legal experts, the White House, you know, people like, Stephen Miller and Tom Homan and Christine and and Christy Noem, they have all said, if this guy comes back to The United States, all that's gonna happen is they're gonna deport him to another country. He's still gonna get deported. But but so it seems to me like it's a I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:It it to to me, it's like a lot of smoke, not a lot of fire. It's a way to try to make the administration look disorganized or unfair or whatever. But this guy does not he's not a citizen. He's an illegal immigrant. He's been found to be an MS thirteen gang member. I say deport the hell out of him. You know? I want all those murderers gone. Like, you know, it was an MS thirteen guy that killed that mother of five in Maryland, and I wanna know what Booker and Van Holland have to say about that.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I was gonna say, I you know? Jeez. Booker's kinda riding on his twenty twenty four, twenty five hour, you know, stance, you know, popularity right now. Again, good for him. I mean, I I I think it's it's taking a sidebar. I think it's interesting how he approached doing that twenty four, twenty five hour deal. Right. He he wasn't wearing adult diapers or anything.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, this dude, he he was physically hurting at the end of it. Well, I mean, God bless him. He did it. You know, that sort of thing. He's pretty amazing.
Norm Murdock [:You know, somebody counted. He used the word fabulous 98 times.
Brett Johnson [:Did he really? After a while, you probably go to a
Norm Murdock [:crutch word, don't you? Your mind your mind
Brett Johnson [:is just kinda going, I gotta I got another hour. What's my favorite word? You know, that sort of thing. Yeah. For sure. But no. Yeah. I I I wonder. You're right.
Brett Johnson [:It it it seems I I would hate for this situation. Let's say he does they bring him back. They really don't deport him. He stays here, and he kills his wife because he beats up his wife. Now that would look great. Yeah. Right. You know? Poor I mean, she's she's probably in a better position because he's gone now.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:But but, yeah, it seems like a lot of effort to bring somebody back in. He's gonna go somewhere else. And Brett
Norm Murdock [:and and, Brett, some of the some of the speech, you know, like, some of the this is where we're called common sense on this show, and this is where it doesn't show common sense. So where the opposition to Trump is going with this, okay, is they're saying, well, if they can do this to this MS thirteen guy, Garcia, right, and send him to El Salvador, then they can they can disappear you too. Like, they can grab me and Brett off the street and send us to El Salvador too.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. They're trying to I mean,
Norm Murdock [:they they're they're overstating.
Brett Johnson [:And and there are some story I saw one interview of, what was it? A, an attorney that, represents a legal immigration attorney. There we go. Finally spit it out. Apparently, she got an email saying that she's gonna be deported. And I, you know and and and, again, they're making a story out of it. She got the email. They showed it. I mean, but I'm sure it probably was a misprint or because she represents, immigrants, she's probably on she they've got her email.
Brett Johnson [:That sort of thing. And she even stated, I'm not afraid. I don't think they're gonna deport me and such. But it but it plays to that exact story you're talking about that they're just gonna grab you on the street
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And and send you away. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they sent her a letter.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right. Yeah. So did they grab her? Or letter.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. What They did not. They sent her a letter too. Saying, hey. We have a hearing, and we're gonna Yeah. So I don't know if you heard this. It might be the same attorney, Brett. They graduated a couple of illegal immigrants from law schools out in California.
Norm Murdock [:I'm sure elsewhere. Probably Harvard and Yale too. Yeah. So there are people practicing law in The United States that are here illegally. You know? I I think San Francisco, actually elected somebody to city council. That's an illegal.
Brett Johnson [:That sounds familiar. I think you may have brought that up. Exactly. I don't I don't I don't understand the process.
Norm Murdock [:Or or in the paperwork. Yeah. You know? It was some official there. Yeah. And I'm like, really? I don't know. You know, like like, there aren't citizens for those jobs?
Brett Johnson [:Whatever. Yeah. Well and and but well, you're going back to the application process Yeah. Of okay. You are what's missing? Or do they have paperwork to the counter of being you know what I mean? I mean, yes.
Norm Murdock [:Garcia just came in. Like, the like, no paper. He was a gotaway.
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:So he he he's not here illegally like he overstayed his visa or he was a student, and he stayed too long.
Brett Johnson [:He's basically been underground ish.
Norm Murdock [:He he he's a gotaway. He's a guy that came across a border somewhere. Right? And he's just here. So well, not here anymore.
Brett Johnson [:No. No. So And won't be no matter what the outcome is.
Norm Murdock [:Probably. Unless the president of El Salvador, you know, succumbs to the Supreme Court of the United States, but it's not his Supreme Court. He doesn't have to obey anything that John Roberts tells him he has to do. Right. So, you know, the the Supreme Court ordered Trump to facilitate his return, and I assume that means the State Department asks El Salvador to return the guy, and I'm sure they will. And then this El Salvador can say no.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. Which they did. Yeah. Which we have the right to do too.
Norm Murdock [:We have yeah. We don't have to extradite people. You don't have to.
Brett Johnson [:So Yeah. God.
Norm Murdock [:So then so Gayle King, Oprah's bestie, went up in outer space. Well, almost outer space. They went up, I think, 60 miles high. Yeah. And I guess outer space officially starts at 62 miles high. And They have signage? Yeah. Like the Roadrunner. Like with Coyote.
Norm Murdock [:My my my mind went there as well too.
Brett Johnson [:That's beautiful. You are now entering space.
Norm Murdock [:Space. Right. Use your air brakes on the way down. So so they came so they I don't know if you saw this, but they were screaming, squealing or or screaming something. And when the parachute was bringing them down, all six ladies on board so it was a full female, but payload because they did not actually operate the spaceship. It was, you know, robotically
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Launched and then robotically landed. Mhmm. Just like a lot of air you know, a lot of airliners now are pretty much, you know, robo controlled on takeoff and landing. Sure. Same kind of thing. And so they were cargo, if you will. And they were screaming on the way down. And my only problem with this story, right, is I don't wanna get into the dippy remarks.
Norm Murdock [:When they came back, they were very emotional about the trip, and and that's fine. Oh, and who wouldn't be? And who wouldn't be?
Brett Johnson [:And they could God. Great.
Norm Murdock [:And they can scream and yell
Brett Johnson [:and Sure.
Norm Murdock [:You know, they're all wealthy because I think it I think it's a million dollars for the flight. It was eleven minutes, and the term and the terms I heard were $100,000 per minute, which makes their tickets a million dollar plus. Wow. So at any rate, one was, Jeff Bezos' girlfriend or his fiancee and then, you know, Gayle King and a bunch of others. My only problem with this is some in the media, and I'm sure some of these ladies wanna say that they're astronauts now. And I think that's a little unfair to real female astronauts like our former head of COSI, a Central Ohio science and innovation center, Catherine Sullivan, who went up on the space shuttle three times. And I think I think on one of the flights, she was mission commander, actually. So and, of course, Judith Resnick who died on Challenger, from Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:Like like, those females were real life, like, actual astronauts.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:People that go up on a joyride, Like, if I bought a million dollar ticket, I wouldn't come down and say I'm an astronaut. But that's the only part of this story that irked me.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I I know. That's interesting because I wanted to look it up real quick. And basically, an astronaut is someone who travels in space.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So I I kinda wonder though I mean, now it says also while the term was once reserved for military trained professionals recently accessible of space travel, has seen the term astronaut now used to refer to anyone traveling in space including civilians. Yeah. So the term has been morphed. It's been morphed.
Norm Murdock [:And, I I don't like it. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you know, now maybe now's an maybe the term space traveler Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Should be used. Right.
Brett Johnson [:That's cool too. I mean, I take a a a a logo that, I was a space traveler. That's still pretty damn cool.
Norm Murdock [:Or or for sarcastic, bitter old men like me, cargo. Cargo.
Brett Johnson [:You know? A lot you know, human cargo. Exactly. But, yeah, you know Screaming cargo. I I think I think we need to reserve that even though it's morphed. I think we need to reserve that astronaut term. I don't put any of those ladies. They did a great job. I'm excited for him, but that's not John Glenn material.
Brett Johnson [:I'm sorry.
Norm Murdock [:Well, it's not it's not Katherine Sullivan.
Brett Johnson [:It's not Neil Armstrong. I'm sorry. It's not. But you're space travelers for sure.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, when they got down to Earth, I think one of the CNN commentators said, you know, this is proof that women do space. And I'm like, wait a minute. Women have been going up into Oh, oh. On NASA missions, And and Judith Resnick was an engineer.
Brett Johnson [:Can you say that again? It was a CNN reporter. A reporter of of some ilk.
Norm Murdock [:Somebody waving, you know, the flag for feminism. And I'm like, you are decades late to the party.
Brett Johnson [:Wait. Well, and that's just a slap in the face. Well
Norm Murdock [:That's how I took it.
Brett Johnson [:None of the female astronauts are gonna say anything about this probably.
Norm Murdock [:Because they have too much class than I do.
Brett Johnson [:They do. Exactly. But that's that's that is ridiculous because, now, if they're just looking at it from the standpoint of buying a ticket to go into space Yeah. And no other woman has so far, that's that's they're so they're space travelers. They bought a ticket. Big great. Right. Big it's not the same as women in space.
Norm Murdock [:Next time I fly to LA, I'm not gonna get off the plane, you know, at John Wayne International and claim to the and claim to the news crews that are surrounding me that I'm a pilot.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:No. I'm just cargo on a seven thirty seven. Come on. So
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:So, in happier news, the Buckeyes went to the White House, to celebrate their football national championship. And, you know, we saw Ryan Day walking with JD Vance. And, Brett has a funny story. I don't know if you saw this, but, Brett, go ahead.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you know, of course, the trophy broke in in Vance's hand.
Norm Murdock [:But so I'm looking at the video. And this is the permanent trophy. Right? Like, we don't get I guess so.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:It's the one that goes around every champion.
Brett Johnson [:I'm assuming it is. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm looking at the video, and it reminded me because I'm seeing Vance take it, but this this guy that's beside him is if you look at it really quickly, it looks like he's pushing the base out from under him. And it reminded me if you if you're an office, watcher, the episode where Jim and Michael go make a sales call and and Michael actually falls into a koi pond. And and it turns out that Jim actually pushed him. And the video of this of the of the trophy breaking looks like the guy beside Vance is kinda pushing the base underneath him, but I know it's a reaction to catch the thing. I know it is.
Brett Johnson [:But if you do it in slow mo, it kinda looks like the guy's pushing the the wooden base, and Vance is trying to catch the top.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. But he he caught he caught the, the bronze part or brass part or whatever that is, the gold part. Yeah. But, yeah. So I don't know what they
Brett Johnson [:I didn't realize the the players officially got their rings at Wow. At at the spring game.
Norm Murdock [:I did not know that.
Brett Johnson [:They got got it right there after the game, but they got their rings for winning the national championship during the spring game, which is, what, two weeks ago or so. Wow. So maybe it takes some to make them. I mean, that that's true. I didn't think about that piece of it. So but, yeah, that's all official. Saw a bunch of bling on on on players' rings
Norm Murdock [:and stuff. I guess you would call that a forced, fumble if the guy pushed Vance. Exactly. But Vance Vance made some funny comments, something like, at least I caught the good part. You
Brett Johnson [:know? Right. Exactly. Then I think he I think he noticed, which is amazes me. I think I heard him say something. He caught caught a guy with a Michigan cap in the in the crowd. Oh. And he's like, so we need security.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I you know, every time I see a Michigan, you know, Michigan, sportswear around Columbus, I just wonder if those people get harassed.
Brett Johnson [:I know.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it's unbelievable.
Brett Johnson [:You know what? I I give them some cred that you're willing to put it out, and and they're proud of their team.
Norm Murdock [:I was in Ann Arbor, last summer, and I saw Ohio State regalia Yeah. In Ann Arbor. So it happens both ways. Yeah. Yes. It does. Anyway Yeah. So some sad news here.
Norm Murdock [:It it is something that kinda makes me a little angry, actually. The Chillicothe paper mill, which is owned by a company called Pixel Specialties.
Brett Johnson [:Based in Pennsylvania?
Norm Murdock [:I think so.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I think.
Norm Murdock [:But that mill has been in operation historically in one form or another, obviously, not the same building, come on, for, like, two hundred and thirty years. Basically, back to when Ohio was founded in eighteen o three. They've been there that long. And Chillicothe was once the state capital. Mhmm. Like and and 800 people are gonna lose their jobs with this closure. And I just keep, you know, like, I keep thinking these are the kinds of manufacturing jobs that these tariffs are trying to recall back to The United States. Paper making.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Okay? So that's a very industrial process involving pulp from, trees and, you know, and all that chemical washing and all the stuff that goes into making paper. And here we have a plant in Ohio closing down at the same time that our illustrious governor and his JobsOhio nightmare, you know, are are doling out hundreds of millions of dollars to of companies that are failing to live up to their contracts, contracts that are written so poorly we cannot even claw the money back. And yet, what are they doing about these 800 jobs? I would be on the phone to this Pennsylvania company, and I hope mister DeWine is, and I hope JobsOhio are. But they need to get on the stick. They need to figure out a way to keep this plant open. And if it involves a grant or some kind of loan or whatever it is, because the owners said it was a very close call, financially whether to keep it open or close it. So if it's that close, I say we ought to try to save these 800 jobs.
Brett Johnson [:Well, it'll be interesting once it starts to peel and something came to my mind. I don't know if this is true or not, but it'd be interesting to know if they had conversations with the state of Ohio and JobsOhio
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And if we didn't go to the table to try to salvage this or not, again, I don't know this, but it you know
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Once a story is out, you kinda peel back, peel back. It's like, oh, wait a minute. They did have a conversation with DeWine's people in Jobs Ohio
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And they couldn't come to an agreement.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Let's find out.
Brett Johnson [:800 jobs. Eight that that's gonna really, really hurt Chillicothe.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, big time. I hear you.
Brett Johnson [:There's no way around it. There's no way around it. That is gonna hurt them economically. I think the well, they they they start they close in June or something
Norm Murdock [:like that. I mean,
Brett Johnson [:then And they're gonna try try to help these 800 find other jobs. Great. That's a great exit strategy, but but they that's what they
Norm Murdock [:There is no other exit.
Brett Johnson [:There is no what else are
Norm Murdock [:they gonna do down there?
Brett Johnson [:Right. And and luckily, it was not a a decision to move it overseas. It it basically I think they were closing it because they could do they said, I if I read it correctly, more economically, in in Pennsylvania, in their other plant or something like that. Okay. Thank god it didn't go across across, you know, the border. Right.
Norm Murdock [:But look how we Come on. We fight like hell in this in this, state for these high-tech Exactly. You know, tens of thousands of
Brett Johnson [:jobs. Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:And then Microsoft cancels three data centers. Intel is five years behind if that thing ever happens. Right.
Brett Johnson [:And And and we're we're giving away the farm
Norm Murdock [:for jobs for,
Brett Johnson [:employers that are bringing in fewer than 800 jobs. Exactly. Fifty, sixty,
Norm Murdock [:80 jobs. 800 jobs in those data centers. No. They're they're they're they're operated by a dozen people maybe.
Brett Johnson [:And and paper is not going away as we all thought. Oh, boy. Internet, digital, that'll you know? We still got paper. I mean, yeah. Between a computer and a piece of paper, paper is always gonna be there even if it's something to wipe your butt with.
Norm Murdock [:Well, I gonna be here.
Brett Johnson [:You know? Come on.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, the way they're anti plastic bags now, it you know, like, paper bags are coming back. Exactly. It's all it's all nuts. Yeah. It is. Man. Another thing here in Ohio is our attorney general, Dave Yost, who's running for governor, by the way, against Vivek Ramaswamy. He's been attorney general now for several years and before that, auditor of the state of Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:He has joined with 38 other attorney generals in pursuing what is called a pharmacy benefit management company or PBM. Yeah. These are middlemen companies that exist between manufacturers and insurers of, manufacturers of pharmaceuticals and insurers of, people's, you know, drug benefits and the pharmacy on the bottom that dispenses it to you and me when we go get our drugs at the pharmacy or mail order, however we do it. There is this PBM system that's in between, and they get big rebates from the manufacturers that they then either give back to the insurance companies, okay, to subsidize them, or they give back to their closely held pharmaceutical chains like CVS, Walgreens, etcetera. So, Dave Yost, in past years, has sued, like, seven of these PBMs. He's gone after big pharma, if you will, to try to understand what the secret contracts are because they are private between the PBMs, the middlemen, and Big Pharma that manufactures and the insurance companies. So the bottom line is according to an article that came out today by our friend Marty, Stout.
Brett Johnson [:Thank you. Yeah. No. No.
Norm Murdock [:As as he he's published an article and he claims and we'll try to get him on the show. But his research claims that The United States has the highest cost for pharmaceuticals of any developed country, and we have the worst outcomes in terms of, the the cost, benefit to the patients that our patients are either not getting enough drugs or they're so high they can't afford them or or, you know, basically, they're burning up their benefits more quickly than, than they otherwise would if they were in another country. So he says we're dead last amongst developed countries for the benefits. Now, obviously, when you get to a certain age, your pharmaceuticals are free, for under Medicare for for, for seniors. But, you know, there's a lot of struggling young parent households, right, that aren't getting free, pharmaceuticals. And so there's a lot more to this story, but these 38 plus Dave Yost attorney generals are asking congress to step in with legislation either outlawing the middlemen, entirely that they can't do this so that these rebates will lower the cost retail of these drugs for me and you.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Alright. Well, you know, in the scenario, the middleman always if there's a middleman involved, it increases the price. And it's just another hand touching it. But Yeah. But then you add these layers of, well, the rebate doesn't go all the way back to the consumer. They they they keep it. And and, you know, the middle then, these PBMs are making enough money as it is.
Norm Murdock [:Well, when the claim that Yost is making is that some of the bigger, pharmaceutical chains like CVS, and he he specifically used them as an example, they are now getting into manufacturing of drugs themselves. They have they are a PBM themselves, and they are the pharmacy themselves. So they own all three layers. So they're giving the rebates back to themselves as a manufacturer subsidiary
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Or they're giving the rebates back to their retail chain. And so your mom and pop out there in rural Ohio, about 10%, of those independent pharmacies have closed in the last year.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So And because they can't compete against the chains Right. That get these subsidies.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:It's a pretty complex story. Yeah. We're we're gonna try to bring in an expert to to to break this down for us. So I, this just happened yesterday.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly. So I I did a a lot of you are probably familiar with GoodRx, where you can use that to, you know, basically go to go to, any pharmacy, Kroger, anybody, you know, and kinda go they'll run a different program. So I thought, well, I just is GoodRx a PBM, a pharmacy benefit manager, and they're not. They're not. Which is I and I bring this just as a side note because a lot of people use GoodRx. So GoodRx is a health care company that provides a platform consumers to compare and access prescription drug discounts. It does partner with PBMs to obtain lower drug prices, which then passes on to consumers.
Brett Johnson [:So there is good stuff going on. And again, that was my own research going, well, we use GoodRx. Is this something that we better pull back on because they're the bad guy? I don't know. You know? It doesn't look like on the outside, but then, you know, that's just a very quick summary of what, you know, doctor Google is telling me.
Norm Murdock [:Now the p b the the PBMs, I should say, and it it to be fair. Right? So you got Yost on one side saying they are the reason pharma pharmaceuticals are so high. Okay? On the other hand, the PBM spokesman, they have an organization. They, you know, they're represented by, you know, lawyers and and, they have a trade association. They are saying, if you put us out of business and it's basically manufacturers selling directly to big chains, there'll be nobody there to negotiate the rebates. And he says he says the cost will go up. Oh my Oh my god.
Brett Johnson [:So so Oh my god. Talk about valuing yourself. If we're not there, oh, the world's gonna break.
Norm Murdock [:They Oh, come on. They are saying the PBM Association is saying, you eliminate us. Watch out. Oh my god. I don't know who to believe. I'm not, you know, like, I'm not an expert, but
Brett Johnson [:No one no no one or no organization is that flipping important. Yeah. You know the manufacturers will come up with some scenario because they wanna make drugs, and they wanna sell drugs. They'll come up with a scenario to work with pharmacies.
Norm Murdock [:I I my gosh. I hope I hope we don't shoot shoot ourselves in that thought.
Brett Johnson [:Anyway, I just see that just seems so funny. They would blatantly say, hey. Without us,
Norm Murdock [:watch out. Right? Right? I mean, you know
Brett Johnson [:Oh my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:Here we go. So, this is a battle that I guess will be played out for all the congress. Interesting. Yeah. So And
Brett Johnson [:it's gonna be long and drawn out. Oh, yeah. There's so much money involved with this. My gosh.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right. Which
Brett Johnson [:is sad because we're all gonna get hurt in the end. More local pharmacies are gonna go out of business because they can't fight the Walmart or the Yeah. The the whatever, pharmacy that's down the street. They can just sell drugs for nothing.
Norm Murdock [:I will say this. It is pretty ball I I'll say this. It is pretty ballsy for a Republican candidate for governor and a Republican attorney general to take on big pharma. No. It is. It is pretty ballsy.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. It is not the typical profile. And, evidently, there's 38 other AGs that feel the same way. So, this might be one issue that cuts across party lines. God, I hope so.
Brett Johnson [:It'll be well, it touches everybody. You're exactly right. It it's that common sense look at stuff that we always are talking about. It's like it it it doesn't matter red, blue, purple, green.
Norm Murdock [:But look out for campaign finance.
Brett Johnson [:Everybody. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Look. You know, these these congressmen run every two years. And, you know, because of that Supreme Court decision, you you know, these packs can give unlimited amounts of money, and and just look out for people buying off your congressmen.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Because they're big pharma who's got the money to spend here? Right? The independent pharmacies out in rural Ohio or big pharma? Who who's got the money to spread around congress? Right. So
Brett Johnson [:And if it if it is beneficial for pharma to keep PBMs around, which maybe it is. I don't know. You know? So To reinvent the wheel cost some money. So Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:We legislation in Ohio that that galls me, frankly, because I think in at least in the case of my township, my township trustees have done a terrible job. Whether it's roads, whether it's, hiding with NDAs, the fact that, Intel was gonna land like an atomic bomb in Licking County. They've done a terrible job in my opinion. That's my opinion personally. And yet this legislation is gonna raise their pay 5% if it passes. And county commissioners, it's a little bit more complex. Their pay is based on population. So a large county like Hamilton County or Franklin County or Cuyahoga County, you know, they get paid a lot more than, say, you know, Ashtabula County or something.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So, so I it just it bothers me because a lot of people are having to tighten their belts. Inflation is up. It, you know, it it's a little better now, but it's still you know, the the prices that it went up to under Biden are still pegged high. So the it's the rate of inflation mainly that has not gone up under Trump. But eggs are you know, even at $4.99 at Kroger's, that's way more than it used to be. It was a buck 99, right, not too long ago, and now it's $4.99 and up. So I'm just saying, you know, in I think that I think the township association and the count the common or the county, commissioners association, they ought to tell the legislature, no. Not right now.
Norm Murdock [:Our people are suffering. They can't pay their property taxes. This is, not the time to raise our pay in my
Brett Johnson [:Well, exactly. Plus, I I mean, I don't know any commissioners personally, but you don't hear My
Norm Murdock [:dad was a commissioner. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think he'd be for this.
Brett Johnson [:Well, then you don't really hear commissioners going, yeah. This is a I'm not being paid enough. Come on. I I think at that level, commissioners do it because it it it's it they're they're drawn to something because they wanna change local. We go back to that local local, and and it doesn't matter how much they're may they're making because it's a side gig anyway. They got a full time job. The commissioner typically, you know, county or township commissioners and such are that's not full time gigs for them.
Norm Murdock [:Or it shouldn't be.
Brett Johnson [:It shouldn't be. County But
Norm Murdock [:you kept you pay them enough. Yeah. And and then it starts to become Starts become. It be it starts to look like a career, and they stay there forever. And, you know, my they also get you know, the big attraction, Brett, for a lot of these township trustees is the health care that they get. So they get a state employee level health care plan. Right? And forget the pay. The health care plan's probably worth, you know, 30 or 40,000 a year just to have that kind of coverage because it is it's first class.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Right. You know, I just caught this too, this, the ledge the the budget bill, that the the house is pushed on to the senate, that there's, some changes to the housing trust fund fees to keep revenue local and allow county commissioners to decide how to use the funds to support local housing and residential infrastructure projects and increase funding to brownfield remediation projects.
Norm Murdock [:That So, Guenther That's cool. The mayor of Columbus has announced that the city itself is gonna develop more housing. And I think he said a thousand units. And I'm Yeah. Well, they're I don't know the ins and outs of that, but I caught that. And I wonder if, Brett, that may fit in.
Brett Johnson [:Some of it might be. That may fit into that. Here in Columbus, they're, I think it's on Third Third Street. I think it's Third, tearing down the old United Way building, and it will become low income residential, which, again, it's an empty building. Yes. The city has funds that they should be looking at.
Norm Murdock [:That could have been what Ginther was talking about.
Brett Johnson [:At least a that's their, condo start of it.
Norm Murdock [:Apartments or something. Exactly. Exactly. But there is a shortage. There is said to be a shortage Yeah. In, the, Central Ohio area.
Brett Johnson [:And and it has to be I think those decisions to do this has to be on that very local level. You know, you got your commissioners or whatever. They they've gotta make the decisions on it. It can't be federal. I'm a little because we know better how to utilize I'm a little development, I think.
Norm Murdock [:But I'm a little less jazzed about the government being the developer.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and that's true. And that's true. No. No. No. No. That's true. But A little less jazzed about that.
Brett Johnson [:I think it's that, I I I
Norm Murdock [:because what you end up with possibly
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's true.
Norm Murdock [:Is like what Chicago had with Cabrini Green. Green.
Brett Johnson [:Well, good point. You've got the slums and such too. That's, you know
Norm Murdock [:If there's no profit motive Yeah. Then why keep the building up? Right. Just let it decay.
Brett Johnson [:That's true.
Norm Murdock [:Let the gangs take it over because all you're doing is doling out, you know, section eight housing vouchers every month.
Brett Johnson [:But then but then developers aren't doing it, so you get to to incentivize developers to do it. The government's gotta step in. It's like, well, I'll help pay for it. We'll help pay
Norm Murdock [:for it.
Brett Johnson [:It's like it it's almost the same thing, kind of.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know. Private developers have been known to intentionally build what will be Section eight housing. Like, you can go into that business knowing that you're never gonna have to chase a renter down for a check because the government is giving them a check every month for section eight housing. They then turn that check over to you as the landlord. Mhmm. And that business model is not altogether terrible because it's predictable. You you don't have to go out and have a collections department. You get your money secondhand right from the government.
Norm Murdock [:I just don't wanna see Andrew Ginther as the landlord.
Brett Johnson [:Well, that's
Norm Murdock [:That's my problem.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. Everything looks good at the beginning. We talked about this numerous times. Everything looks good at the beginning, and then it morphs into something very ugly.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:It just control control control oversight. Just don't go crazy on it. But, yes, either everything has the yin and the yang. Yeah. Yeah. It does. You're right.
Norm Murdock [:So, we turn into some justice stories Yeah. While we have about fifteen minutes left here.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. What do you got left now?
Norm Murdock [:There was a just this incredible road rage event that happened on I-seventy here in more or less downtown, like like Mound Street exit of of Columbus, just east on on Interstate I-seventy, where according to witnesses, two car v two cars were brake checking each other, a Chevy Equinox and a Ford f one fifty. And I guess the guy in the f one fifty was a chemo patient on his way, you know, for cancer treatment. And why in God's name a guy who's, you know, dealing with life and death issues would would participate in a brake checking exercise. If that is true, I don't know, but that's what witnesses said, with another motorist is beyond me. That kind of aggressive driving, you're you're begging for it. And so what happened again, I don't know who the bad guy is, but the police have charged one of the drivers. The guy in the Equinox used a a revolver or an automatic pistol and shot at the f one fifty guy who got shrapnel in his face, nonlife threatening, but they closed the highway down for two hours, and it was at rush hour. And so between seven and 09:00, nobody can go west on I 70.
Norm Murdock [:And, you know, hey, people. I honestly, I never get into these things with other cars. Now as a kid, I did a lot of bonehead stuff, but, you know, you you you hopefully, you mature as you grow up. And and getting into a brake checking fight when you're going down the highway at 65, 70, 80 miles an hour where you're gonna stab your brakes to punish the guy behind you because he cut you off, and now you're gonna break check him. And then he gets in front of you and break checks you back. Hey. You know, cars can be lethal.
Brett Johnson [:They are
Norm Murdock [:lethal. Like like, I don't know what the hell you think you're doing out there, but, you know, you you can't drive like that. Wow. There's there's innocent people and some nut. Clearly, the guy who pulled out a gun and used it is is guilty of a bunch of stuff. But the other guy, I don't know what he did, but if he exacerbated this and somehow, you know, raged the other guy up, he is partially responsible if he did something like intentionally break checked the other guy and caused, you know, some kind of psychological reaction, which was wrong, but so is break checking people.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've all experienced that moment of, like What are you doing? You're just ticked off Yes. Because somebody did what what's in their right mind? But it's like, give yourself that two, three breaths. It doesn't matter in the long run.
Norm Murdock [:Doesn't matter. And you might It doesn't really mean. Get yourself shot Exactly. By some nut. Why would you do that when you know people have guns and they're and and some of them are, you know, a couple a couple eggs short of a dozen?
Brett Johnson [:Right. You know? Exactly. Well, and and I don't know. There's just so many scenarios that can play from that that you're taking a dad or a mom away from a family accidentally because you're just outraged and you get into an accident.
Norm Murdock [:All show him.
Brett Johnson [:I I I yes. What's wrong with you? Wow. At at what a teaching moment that I'm going to do this to you because you cut me off.
Norm Murdock [:So we we like stats here. So the Columbus Police Department, as a result of this story, put out some stats. So far in 2025, in Columbus, there's been a the the felony assault unit has clocked Now I'm sure there's many more shootings than they know about, but the ones they know about and have investigated, a 22 shootings, that are not related to, like, a a relationship, a dispute between people that know each other. 47 shootings between people that are, you know, that do have a relationship where there's a dispute or a family incident or something. And then on top of the one twenty two shootings and the 47 shootings between people that know each other are a 89 other felonious assaults, knives, fists, shoes, umbrellas. I don't know what you know, ball peen hammers, whatever else people use. So, you know, there's too much violence out there clearly and, you know, I'm probably talk I'm preaching to the wrong audience.
Brett Johnson [:Well and it's funny you bring that up because I just caught this, PR piece, that the OhioHealth Hospital System has joined this, newly formed agree to agree campaign because of the, you know, that firearms have been, linked to the leading cause of death for US children ages one through 17 for three years in a row. And and again, it's a stat. It exists. I'm not disputing that at all. But if you do go further into this ad council ad and, you know, it's basically designed to we need to have conversations about gun safety. Whether you're for guns or against guns, it doesn't matter. Let's just say
Norm Murdock [:They exist.
Brett Johnson [:They exist.
Norm Murdock [:And you gotta deal with it.
Brett Johnson [:And deal with it. But you kinda go in and it the one thing kinda irks me about it is they do have this ad cancel video of these kids debating pro all staged. It's not real life kinda stuff, you know, because you can kind of get the sense of, like, okay. This that this 16 year old will not talk like this, you know, even though it's a debate, you know, sort of thing. To me, yes, we need to have the conversation, but this thing is just no go. It will go no. You watch the video and you'll just see kinda going, okay, we're putting our money in the wrong place again. You look at the complexion of this whole audience that they've, you know, set up.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's not who we need to be talking to. Yeah. If you dig deep into the one in seven, it's not who's in that audience, you know, that that need we need to get to the crux of why are young black men, black women being killed, killing their you know, themselves, you know, basically. Yeah. That that's where the conversation is. And you look and if you put that in your head and you watch this ad council video, it it doesn't move the needle. That's it's it's just all show.
Brett Johnson [:It's I mean, we gotta have this conversation. It's like, I think they're missing a mark on this.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they really do. The idea that guns are lethal was, and and that people who are supposed to be well trained and understand guns and and collectors and, you know, people who are supposedly, you know, have some expertise was a little blown up with a club that I'm a member of. And I'm a proud member of the Ohio Gun Collectors Association, and they had an incident at the March meeting at the Roberts Center, you know, down south, in in off of I 71, you know, you know, here in Ohio. I think that's a Xenia exit, I believe. At any rate, the Roberts Center, was holding these, bimonthly meetings of my club that I belong to. It's a very large club, and people come in from all over the country. And what they do is they display, and a lot of them are educational displays. The guns aren't even for sale.
Norm Murdock [:Some of them are like, you know, a guy who collects every kind of Winchester, you know, lever action, and then he has a big display under lights, and he educates you about, you know, this that was used by the cavalry or the buffalo hunters or whatever. And it's very interesting. So it's truly collectors. They had a guy who brought a gun, and this is a dealer. And he had a round in this rifle. Okay? A three zero eight, which is like, that's deer hunter caliber. Like, that will kill you, if it hits you in a wrong spot. And one of the customers picked up the rifle, okay, and thinking, well, you know, a dealer wouldn't put a loaded rifle on his table.
Norm Murdock [:Right? So he tries the action and pulls the trigger, and it hits the the bullet hits two people, including the dealer. I think the guy right behind the dealer, that was showing, the rifle. So the Roberts Center has canceled, you know, like, no more meets at their hotel anymore. That's that's their convention center. And, two people got shot. And this is a club where when you go in, every gun has a tie wrap that is put through the action so you can't even pull the trigger. And yet somehow, this got around that safety protocol. So to my point is that you never point a gun at anybody, whether it's loaded or unloaded, because you need to train yourself that every gun is presumed to be lethal and presumed to be loaded until you open it up and demonstrate and put something, a safety wrap in there or something so that it cannot be operated.
Norm Murdock [:Right? And you never point it at anybody. You always assume it's loaded and, and and and people need to do that at home.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:And and and put them in safes. Put them in lockboxes. You can't keep a gun out there where children Mhmm. Or a buddy comes over and three beers into watching a football game. He goes, oh, hey. Hey. Cool Smith and Wesson. Let me dick around with him before you know somebody shot.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Anyway So many levels of this that this just
Brett Johnson [:again, it's just common sense. It's just
Norm Murdock [:Even people who claim to know what the hell they're doing with guns Yeah. Right? Make mistakes.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. For sure. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You wanna do a little, outrage and wonderful?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Let's do. Let's do. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So a lot, while I'm still kinda cranked up, I'll do my outrage first. So in Frisco, Texas, I'm sure by now everybody's heard about this, these two high school boys. And and and it's now it's getting racialized because the one boy who stabbed the other boy in the heart with a knife is is African American. And the boy who died, who was a straight a student and an, you know, a recruit for, you know, a college football and, you know, boy scout and everything else that's right in the world. He's he's the victim who died, and he died right there in front of his brother, his twin brother, and his father. Okay? They're at a track meet, and, apparently, the the the fans of the opposite team decided to this this other 17 year old boy and maybe one or two of his friends decided to get shade or get underneath the canopy of the of the other team. And this Austin, Metcalfe, the victim, football player at this track meet, he but he and his twin brother watching the track meet.
Norm Murdock [:He he says to, Carmelo Anthony, the kid who stabbed him, he says, hey, man. You know, this is for our team. This this canopy like, we have room on under here for our team and not for other people. Do you you please move. You know? Sit sit elsewhere. And they got into an argument. And I guess Carmelo, the the the guy charged with murder with stabbing him, he says Metcalfe put his hands on me in some way, shape, or form that he touched me. And and his reaction, he claimed to a self defense by stabbing him in the heart with a a knife, which, you know, I I mean, that's that way way in excess, right, of somebody who touches you.
Norm Murdock [:So at any rate, this has now gone racialized. And my outrage, besides the murder itself, which is, you know, hey. I know his brain is not fully formed either boy at age 17, and there there had to be a better way to work this out. Like, I'm gonna go get the principal or I'm gonna go get a policeman or something. The one boy shouldn't have touched the other boy, and the other boy definitely sure as hell shouldn't have brought a knife to a track meet and stabbed anybody in the heart. So, anyway, what I don't like is the, perpetrator who's been charged with murder, they there's a, you know, GoFundMe for his family. They raised $400,000, and they bought a house with it. Instead of buying a lawyer, to help them, they bought a house.
Norm Murdock [:And I just think Wow. You know, I don't know what the parents are doing, man. I I would be focusing on trying to get my kid not to be sent away to prison.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know, I would be focused on that. This is not a time for you to buy yourself a house and upgrade your lifestyle. I you you gotta you gotta work through the legal system.
Brett Johnson [:Well, at 17, as we've talked about before on the show, he's probably being tried as an adult.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, his life might be And that's Like, he's in he's in great danger. Yeah. Like, he needs And he he is saying crazy stuff, and his attorney's gotta shut him down. He's he's saying, yeah, that that the other kid was the aggressor, and I'm defending myself. And it's like, dude, that's not gonna fly. No. You you you can't you don't stab people in the heart because they touch you.
Brett Johnson [:Right. No. No. Exactly. Well, let it all come out. Yeah. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:It'll come out. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Brett Johnson [:Well, with this, you know, yesterday was the the April 15, of course, tax day, and and Gotcha. My my my outrage is is is in the mindset that we most people almost look forward to a tax refund. Oh my god. And and from what I saw nearly and this is based on 2020 02/2022, nearly 68% of federal filings resulted in a a refund in tax. That is a lot higher than I real than I figured. Now, again, sometimes you can't control things happen during the year. You can plan the best plan, but it's like, oh, this happened, and you can, take advantage of tax, situation. And and 4,000,000 Ohioans averaged, refund of $2,800.
Norm Murdock [:And marketers are all over that.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my god. So Wow. So think about this. The reality of a refund check is that you lent the government your money at 0% interest.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. For a year. For a year. K?
Brett Johnson [:So you may think that refund's great. I I would love to come out with zeros every year.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I would and I'm like, damn it if I can't do it. Yeah. I just I I do get refunds too, and it bothers the crap out of me when I start dividing that by 12 Yeah. And how much money I did not have to do something I wanna do with it per month.
Norm Murdock [:So I am So the
Brett Johnson [:and the refunds aren't the greatest I mean, seriously, you're loaning the government your money for a year. So Yeah. Get get as close as you can to zero, honestly.
Norm Murdock [:So I'm not a CPA, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn. And, and my advice, I think there's a form called a w four. Mhmm. If you work for an employer that, you know, issues you a paycheck, the form's called a w four. And that is where you list the number of dependents in your household. Right? And that's how they calculate how much tax they're gonna withhold. Right. So if you are consistently having thousands and thousands of dollars being withheld that you then get this big refund, the thing you need to do, right, is you need to you need to have them collect less tax so that your paycheck is bigger.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right? Yeah. That way you take the money home in real time instead of banking it, as Brett said, at 0% with the federal government. So, you know, talk to an accountant like our friend Glenn Harper or your accountant Yeah. And trim that w four to the to the amount of dependence that really reflects your household reality. And try to get it down to a lower number so that you have more money in your wallet.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. Exactly. You know? Because of all the all the, you know, increase in price, I mean, eggs we're talking about, and then taxes on your property and such like that. Yeah. Guess what? That refund money could help you with your tax In real time. In real time. Yeah. So I mean, it it it
Norm Murdock [:because you don't go to the grocery store on April 15 and then never again. You're going every week.
Brett Johnson [:You're going every week. Yeah. Exactly. Again, it's just that it bothers me that so many people live for that refund.
Norm Murdock [:And they think it's great.
Brett Johnson [:And they think it's great, but it's that it was your money in the first place.
Norm Murdock [:Come on. If you think it's great, what that's telling you is that you're terrible at saving money. Right. Like, if if if you if you have to have the government forcing this excessive amount that they keep for a year and then it's like Christmas when you get it, That's telling you you don't have enough discipline in your life
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:To put aside five or 10% into a savings account so it's there when you need it.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So my wonderful my wonderful thing, very short, but I love this statistic. We so I'm not trying to get political even though it is political. Under Biden, it is said that 10,000,000 illegals were somehow foisted upon the American people by various kinds of operations, whether it was the mass parole where they flew 530,000 people in, like the Haitians that were in Springfield. Right? That whole deal. Or whether it is opening gaps in the fence for allegedly deer, you know, so they could populate deer back and forth between Mexico and and The United as if people weren't gonna walk through the same gaps, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So the the estimate is somewhere between eight and ten thousand people on average were crossing illegally every day under Biden at its worst at at the zenith. Okay? It is now down to 200 or fewer every day. So that is wonderful.
Norm Murdock [:I don't I even think even Trump's worst critics, if they're level headed people who care about the country, you know, people like Eric Adams that's trying to run New York City. He said, hey. We have too many illegals in our hotels. We can't afford to feed them. We can't afford to educate them. You know? We need to get them out of New York City. So even big city mayors that are Democrats, I think, are are applauding the idea that we need to take care of American citizens first and not bring in illegal people. Legal people, yes.
Norm Murdock [:Illegal people, no. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. My my, a good story, it it's Easter. It's Easter weekend. Wow. You know? And and, it's a late Easter this year, which really always throws me off. It's like, oh, man. Come on.
Brett Johnson [:Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Because it makes it's just, it's nice to have a really Easter, you know, but I know it's all based on, full moon situation, that sort of thing. So it floats every year. You know, it's never a calendar December 25 or July 4, a holiday ish, you know, that's but, you know, being a religious, holiday. But, we wish all of you a very happy Easter.
Brett Johnson [:It's, it's that time to to really reflect. Passover for
Norm Murdock [:our Jewish friends. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. So it's, you know, it's a very, emotional religious time right now. So if it if you if you celebrate, congratulations, and and, and and enjoy what, the higher the higher power is giving us. Let's put it that way, you know, without getting too religious. But at the same time, you know, we three here on Common Sense Ohio are religious people, And and we and we and we love it. And and and hopefully, you're enjoying it as well too, the way you way you celebrate such. But, yeah, get with your family.
Brett Johnson [:Enjoy the time. This is another time to get to get together and enjoy the the family around you. Please do. Please do. But, yeah, thanks for joining us. But, again, the episode today, as always, brought to you by Harper and Company, CPA. We gave you a couple of examples of why to talk to these guys. Come on.
Norm Murdock [:What else could we do? I I can't do my own taxes. It's too complicated.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my gosh. You know?
Norm Murdock [:It's it's way past my knowledge. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Because they're doing personal and and business owner entrepreneur stuff. So yeah. Exactly. Please. If you just aren't liking where you are right now, give them a call. Harper c p a plus dot com. And until next week, you have a great weekend. We'll see you then.
