Are downloads the best measure of success in podcasting?

Did you think it was OK to turn up for a virtual interview in your PJs?

We’ve probably all had the experience of being unfairly judged by one superficial aspect that felt unfair. You may also have felt at times that other people don’t get your definition of success. It’s easy to get focused on the wrong metrics and it happens all the time in podcasting.

Most people think podcast downloads are the be-all and end-all metric but that is blinding us to reality. Also, now that most podcasts are recorded with video, how should we be showing up for recordings?

In this episode, we’re taking a fairly shallow dive into vanity metrics and vanity in general as one of our 7 deadly sins of podcasting series.

If you want to check out the hilarious TED talk from the late and great Sir Ken Robinson, here's the link: https://youtu.be/iG9CE55wbtY

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This is Podfluence, the show that helps you grow your

influence and income with podcasts.

My name is John Ball and my mission is to help you, the self-employed

business coach, to grow your influence and income now so you could have a

continuously thriving coaching business.

We've probably all had the experience of being unfairly judged by one superficial

aspect of ourselves that felt unfair.

You may also have felt at times that other people don't get

your definition of success.

It's very easy to get focused on the wrong metrics, and it happens

all the time in podcasting.

Most people think podcast downloads are the be all and end all metric, but that is

blinding us to the reality also, now that most podcasts are recorded with video, how

should we be showing up for recordings?

In this episode, we're taking a fairly shallow dive into vanity metrics and

vanity in general, as one of our seven deadly sins of podcasting series, I'm

going to be answering whether downloads are the best measure of podcast success,

and if it's okay to show up to podcast recordings, even virtual ones in your pj.

If you have your device handy right now and you are listening on Apple Podcasts

or Spotify, do me a quick favor and make sure you hit the plus sign at the top of

the screen to make sure you get all new episodes of Pod fluence as they drop.

So pop in your EarPods and let's get started.

Welcome to Pod Fluence.

It is perfectly normal to want to look for guidance as to how well something's doing

or whether you're doing the right things.

and often we would look to compare ourselves to where other people are

and where we think we would like to be.

And so often we want to know like, how many people are following you online?

How many people are listening to your podcast?

How many people are buying your programs or books?

How many people have the faintest idea who you are, right?

, I don't blame you.

Most of us naturally want to know those things.

Maybe you would like to know those about me as well.

I'm not sharing all of that here.

However, it's normal and natural.

Maybe even sometimes validating.

If you are looking for podcasts to guest on or maybe even sponsor, you

don't really want to be wasting your time on shows that only get around

five to 20 downloads per episode.

Do you or do you.

We're coming back in this episode to the series on the seven Deadly

sins of podcasting with number four in the series, which is Vanity.

And I felt it is perhaps most useful here to take a look at

vanity metrics and how much they matter, whether they should matter.

And also we'll steer things a little bit into the personal presentation

side of vanity, both good and bad.

To recap the seven sins so far.

Number one is gluttony or self-indulgence.

Number two, selfishness.

Number three, ignorance.

Number four, vanity with five, six, and seven on the way.

All the way back in episode 1 0 7 of Podfluence, I chatted with, uh, best

say she didn't really like being called an influencer, Whitney Lauritson,

We chatted with her about the power of influencer marketing through

podcasts and one of the things that came up there was that even though

Whitney herself has a large following by many people's standards, some

big potential sponsors would still take a look at her metrics and walk.

She rightly points out that they're missing something very fundamental, which

is that she has a smaller audience than some other influences in her space, but

her audience is highly engaged and the majority of much larger audiences are not.

I get to regularly speak with podcasters who have pretty small followings.

Heck, I'm one of them myself, and I can only agree with Whitney that I would much

rather have an engaged small audience than a disengaged large audience.

This same thing came up in a conversation with Bob Gentle episode one 50.

That he views his show as a success because it positions him well in his

market and has given him the ability to connect with some amazing people.

He actually doesn't care that much about the size of his audience, just

about making a good show that's valuable for the audience that he serves.

Podcasters sometimes get too focused on vanity metrics when the real

treasure is in the quality of the content and the engagement of the

audience, especially for shows that are not purely entertainment based.

The reality is if you are a podcaster who has 20 or less downloads per episode,

your audience is mostly people who already know you rather than people who found.

. That doesn't necessarily mean that a small audience is still not valuable

to you unless it really is just a few close relatives tuning in.

I sometimes think the desire to get into the top charts of podcasting is something

that may actually prevent many podcasters from ever achieving their goals.

What I mean by that is that most new podcasters who start shows primarily for

brand marketing are trying to go from zero to Joe Rogan overnight, and they'll only

see their show as a success when they're nipping at the heels of top podcasters.

But for most of us, that's not attainable.

If we take a look at someone like Jordan Harbinger, who's the host of the

Jordan Harbinger's show, he didn't start off with a show named after himself.

Jordan earned his podcasting stripes with shows like The Art of Charm, which

still runs, but now without Jordan.

He achieved a level of notability that allowed him to put his name

in the title, even if you haven't heard of him, although I do highly

recommend checking out his show.

Trying to go directly for a top podcast, but when you have no experience and no

industry or celebrity status is close to impossible, and it possibly reflects

the level of unearned self importance that social media has cultivated in many

people, thinking that their thoughts and their comments on anything, are

of any importance or relevance to anyone outside of their social circle.

I think for people who are willing to go through the lengthy process

of learning how to be a good show host and give an audience in a

particular field, what they really want are far more likely to succeed.

But few people want to take that slower road, which is why so many people

start shows and don't get past several episodes because their illusion of

going viral, of instant podcast fame and audience just doesn't happen.

The rude awakening many people get in life outside of the social media bubble

is that nobody is eagerly awaiting your opinion, and for the most part,

no one cares about your hot takes.

You're just pissing in the wind or shouting into the void.

I've given talks around the world on why business coaches and speakers

should appear on podcasts and should probably start their own podcast too.

And there is one question I can always rely on being asked.

, which is about monetization.

How do you monetize a podcast?

Well, how do you monetize any business, make a good product that people

will want to buy, solve a problem.

If you apply that same philosophy to podcasting, you

pretty much on the right track.

Being on podcasts, much.

Public speaking requires you to hone your craft so that people

will want to listen to you and would even pay to hear you speak.

I am certain, some people will disagree with me here, but the showing up and

improvising strategy is for amateurs.

When you step onto any platform, real or virtual to speak, you cross what some

people have named the expert threshold.

Perhaps that's because so few people are willing to put themselves in the position

of being the person on the stage speaking.

Perhaps it's a little like the way we give more gravitas to things

we read than to things we hear.

We work on many assumptions, and one of those assumptions is that people

who get up on a stage speak, know what they're talking about and have a certain

level of credibility to be allowed up on that stage in the first place.

New public speakers are quite often very earnest, very sincere, especially when

the subject is a technical or scientific.

But professional paid speakers will generally be able to tell you that the key

to success as a speaker is to make sure that you entertain as well as educate.

Jeremy nicholas, my guest in episode 59 said it very well that you need

to be able to make people laugh if you want to get well paid as a speaker.

How much of that do you ever hear from any podcast guests?

The Great Bard, William Shakespeare knew well enough that even

tragedies require some comic relief.

Even if our subjects are dry or super serious, people can't, and

often don't want to deal with that level of intensity for too long.

and I do think this may be part of the reason why so many comedy and satirical

news shows have done so well over recent years because we're more willing

to be educated about serious topics when they're packaged as entertainment

rather than serious documentary style.

My guest, Lee Carter, on a recent episode of Podfluence speaks to this

a little in terms of how intensity tends to push people away and gets

them to put their defenses up.

Whereas some lightness and some humor, especially self-deprecating humor are

more likely to draw people closer and open up channels of communication.

Now, you don't need to be a laugh riot or standup comic all the time.

But you're gonna be remembered more and probably liked more if you

are able to raise a few smiles and laughs in your media appearances.

If your goal is to be something of a media personality in your

area, this is gonna be essential.

It may take some time to develop the skills and the confidence to

do this well, but that is hopefully what you're here for, to get into

that process knowing that there is no instant fix, or magical solution.

Now, I said we'd talk about visual image as well, and so what about that?

Well, even though most podcasts are audio only, many do record now with video

and we'll use clips to promote the show.

This does mean that you shouldn't show up through a recording in

your dressing gown or pajamas.

Your professional image should be maintained as much as possible,

even if the only person who's gonna see you live is your guest or host.

That doesn't mean you need to be in full business attire the whole time, un,

unless that is your professional image, and even then you could probably safely

move to a more casual version of it.

When it comes to how we publicly present ourselves, we do at least need to show

that we make an effort to look our.

For me, that usually means brushing my hair and beard, wearing my work

clothes, which for me is smart casual, blotting, the excess oil from

my shiny forehead and making sure that I am regularly well groomed.

Now, your routine is likely to look a little bit different, but I present

myself in my media profiles as someone who is not overly serious and likely

to be a fun guest or a fun interviewer.

Now my good pal, Annie Ruggles does this incredibly well to the point where people

generally know that they're gonna have a great experience being a guest on her

show, or having her as a guest on theirs.

Your ability to entertain is gonna be directly relatable to

your desirability as a guest if you are a known thought leader.

Also, being a well-known expert does somewhat lessen the need

to be entertaining as well, but it's still a good idea.

One of my all favorite examples of someone hitting the perfect blend between

education and entertainment is a Ted Talk from the Late and Great Sir Ken Robinson

called Do Schools Kill Creativity.

And if you've heard it, fantastic, you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

And if you haven't, do go and check the link in the show notes and take a watch.

Take a listen.

It's highly worthwhile watching.

And his talk is memorable because the humour and his serious points

are far more palatable when served in that entertaining format.

In fact, we barely notice the seriousness at all, but consider the incredible

contrast of going from humor to seriousness in terms of making a point.

It creates a powerful moment, and you have the potential to

create moments like that too.

If you're wondering what five, six, and seven will be of the seven deadly sins

of podcasting, you can get a heads up on that by making sure you check out some

past issues of the Podfluence Weekly newsletter, where you will definitely

find all of that and you can subscribe on LinkedIn or through beehive, and you

will find the links in the show Although the article for number seven isn't out

at time of this recording, my plan is to release the podcast episode and the

article for that on the same day, so they will coincide with each other.

Something I wish I had started doing from the start with that series,

but you know, get there eventually.

My hope is from this episode, you at least understand that vanity

metrics aren't the be all and, and all that there are potentially

more important things to consider.

How many downloads a podcast has is not a measure of its success.

There are many other aspects that can make it a success for you.

And the same is true of your podcast guesting experience . Think about how

you're showing up visually as well, that you want to make sure that you

have an image that you are projecting out to people and that you want to

stay somewhere in the scope of that in all of your media appearances.

Next episode, I'm gonna be bringing you an interview.

In the meantime, I would encourage you to check through some of the

recent episodes of Podfluence.

Maybe you can go a bit further back in the catalog I'm happy to share with you that

the Podfluence newsletter has now broken the 400 subscriber barrier, something that

I've been hovering around for a long time.

It's a small success, but it's a big one for me.

And, certainly very happy to see those numbers creeping up and up

and we'll will keep doing that.

I do feel that the weekly consistency that I'm able to achieve now

is helping to make that happen.

So thank you for those of you who are subscribed for that.

And if you're not ready, do come and check out.

And that's just the LinkedIn subscriptions, right?

I'm not even counting anywhere else, in those figures.

But that's it for this week's episode of Podfluence.

I hope that wherever you're going, whatever you're doing, you'll

have an amazing rest of your day.