What is brand positioning? How has it changed? And what does it take to make it a success?

That's what we're talking about today with a man whose non-conventional approach to digital marketing and talent for social media has built him a global audience.

He's advised hundreds of brands from over 30 countries, including a shark on Shark Tank, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and several politicians. He's a personal branding expert, keynote speaker, and the founder of Phil Pallen Collective.

A warm welcome to the Strategic Marketing Show, Phil Pallen.

You can find Phil over at philpallen.co.

Topics discussed on this episode include:

• 50 years ago, Kotler defined brand positioning as “the act of designing the company’s offering and image to occupy a distinctive place in the mind of the target market”.
• Does that still hold true today?
• What does he mean by the company’s “offering” and “image”?
• What’s an example of a distinctive place in the mind of the target market?
• How do you go about achieving this, practically, today?
• What are the biggest brand positioning mistakes you see today?
• What are some quick wins that an enterprise brand can do to improve their brand positioning?

Full transcript:

“How would you describe me in one word?” A wonderful way to get qualitative data back from whoever is listening to you. But, what if you are a brand? Can you ask that question? And if you do ask that question, what happens if your audience says horrible things back to you? How do you deal with that?

I mean, we're probably going to have to go through a few layers of approvals, right, David? Before we're allowed to post that on a company’s social media page. So maybe there's a quieter way. Maybe there's a quieter way of collecting that data.

But I'll be honest with you, my reaction to that is: even if it's a hard pill to swallow, we need that data to be able to make changes to move forward. So, hiding it or sweeping it under the rug, as we say – that's not a solution.

The Strategic Marketing Show is brought to you by Insights For Professionals: providing access to the latest industry insights from trusted brands, all on a customized, tailored experience. Find out more over at InsightsForProfessionals.com.

Hey, it’s David. What is brand positioning? How has it changed? And what does it take to make it a success? That's what we're talking about today with a man whose non-conventional approach to digital marketing and talent for social media has built him a global audience.

He's advised hundreds of brands from over 30 countries, including a shark on Shark Tank, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and several politicians. He's a personal branding expert, keynote speaker, and the founder of Phil Pallen Collective. A warm welcome to the Strategic Marketing Show, Phil Pallen.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be chatting with you, my friend. It's been a little while. But I love the fact that creating content brings us together in conversation. Isn’t that a beautiful thing?

It is indeed. I'm sure it will do more often in the future as well. Phil is a wonderful chap, I first saw him present live in Manchester in the UK probably about seven years ago or so. And he was wonderful there and I'm sure he's gonna be wonderful now as well. And I just want to say you can find Phil over at philpallen.co.

So Phil, 50 years ago, Kotler defined brand positioning as “the act of designing the company’s offering and image to occupy a distinctive place in the mind of the target market.” Does that still hold true today?

Oh, thanks for doing your research and finding out, kind of, where this all began. Yes. The way that that's defined, to me, feels absolutely spot on.

In terms of what it means to position a brand today, it makes me think about a few things. It makes me think about, what are the aspects of this that change? And what are the aspects of this that don't?

So, what changes? Well, certainly from 50 years ago, the main thing that's changed is technology. The means we use to show up for our audience and our prospects, it doesn't take 50 years for that to change; it takes a single year for that to change and evolve. What keeps me on my toes is figuring out, “what is the technology that we use?”, and it’s ever-changing. I woke up early this morning to research the latest updates on Instagram (I do that once a month for a dedicated video on YouTube) and, literally in the span of a month, so much changes.

But when we take a step back, David, the one thing that doesn't change - it never changes, and I think this definition is aligned with this - it's the human element of all of this. Remove technology from the equation: which social media platforms we're using, how that's shifting, etc. The human element is how we interact and how we stay top of mind on the radar of others. That is the aspect that will never change: how we interact as humans.

When we think about positioning, I think it feels right. It feels right. If I was to put it into conversational terms, how do we strategically place our brand in a way that's going to help us stay top-of-mind for the people that matter? It could be prospects, customers, it could be employees. There are so many aspects to this but that, to me, is never going to change. We're thinking about, “what can we do to stand out from the sea of others?” That's positioning.

I guess the challenge nowadays is that it seems that there's much more interaction. It could be virtual interaction, consuming content, and face-to-face interaction as well. I would think that many customers have an opportunity to interact with or consume content from many people that are from a brand before deciding to make a purchase.

So, one thing that Kotler said was “distinctive”. How do you retain that level of distinction -that clear, singular, similar message – between different humans?

I like to break this down into a science. We have to think of this in two ways. Now, normally I'm focused on personal branding, but even then what I teach and the methods that I'm often thinking about for people also apply to companies. Every brand – I’d say person and company, but maybe for this example we’ll focus on people; personal branding, which is kind of my thing. Every brand is made up of two components. Content: what you say. Personality is that second element, that's the unique thing that keeps us coming back to you for more. That's the thing that retains us.

Content (I'm sure you probably agree with me on this) nowadays is an unlimited resource, right? Everyone is creating content. Now, we don't even need to create the content ourselves. We can use AI to do it for us and spend a fraction of the time editing and sprucing it up before clicking “publish”. Content is, and will continue to be, a limited resource online. Creating it is not going to be enough to stand out. I'm uniquely interested in that second component of each brand because it really is what's different from brand to brand. And that's personality.

For me branding, and I say this often, is about achieving consistency between that in-person experience and the online version of ourselves. It's not about inflating or making something up online. It's a little bit like online dating. If you consume someone's profile on Tinder, and you meet them for a date, and that experience is not what you were expecting or it's not consistent with your expectations, that's never positive. It's never positive. If we can take inventory of what makes us great, what makes us memorable, recreate that and, ideally, work towards achieving consistency – being aware that your personality is what makes you different, what makes you unique – that, to me, is really important when you're considering what sets you apart from others.

If you've got a friend that calls you up for advice. Let's actually just dissect that for a second. Why are they choosing you, instead of someone else, to call for that advice? Actually think about that for a second. Normally, the answer to that is something you should consider as you position your brand. You can adapt this for companies. Why are people choosing you? Or get specific: why did your last customer, if you're a small business, hire you (if you have at least one customer)? Break it down and understand the specifics of that motivation. And let that heavily weigh in what words you use to position your brand for others.

I love that. That question – why did your last customer hire you? – that can apply to a big business just as equally as well. Why does your common type of customer tend to choose to do business with you as well?

And then you say, “Take that. Distill it down. Come up with some phraseology that perhaps summarises the common traits.” Are we talking about things like features and benefits of what you do and incorporating that as part of what you do and say in the future?

I wouldn't say so. Yeah, I would say so. I try not to get caught up too much in marketing jargon. I'm not a big fan of, for example, brand archetypes. I mean, they're fine. It's a system that you can use. “Benefits and features”, fine. You can consider these if you're writing a sales page.

I try to keep it a little more simple so it's not so intimidating. And I try to really think about, if I was having a conversation with someone in real life, putting all of that scary marketing stuff aside. Because people hear those and they go, “Oh, God. What don't I know” and “I don't know what that means. I didn't study this”, etc.

“If you're having a conversation with someone, what is going to come up?”, “How are you going to describe yourself in a few words?” and, sometimes more interestingly, “How is someone else going to describe you?”

One of the activities that I give people is (those listening right now could go and do this) to post on social media this question: How would you describe me in one word? As we work towards achieving self-awareness – personal brands or company brands – we really need to do the most basic form of market research, which is asking others for feedback. Ideally, someone that's not afraid to tell you the truth. But, this is really an example of that kind of basic method of research. Post on social media, “How would you describe me in one word?” and I'm really interested to see what words or similar words pop up more than once. That's people describing their experience of you, and that's going to be different from your own experience of yourself, right?

I always think about, as audio people, it’s so interesting to me that I hear my own voice differently from how you hear my own voice – because I’m in it. Sometimes I'm too close to the brand, too close to myself, to properly take inventory of that. I mean, I'm happy about that, because it keeps me employed helping other people. But, essentially, my job is to hold up a mirror in front of you and say, “Hey, here's what I see.”, “Here's what I hear.”, and “This is what I think is really important to focus on.” But we should all be working toward, what I would describe as “self-awareness” because I think it makes us better in business.

“How would you describe me in one word?” A wonderful way to get qualitative data back from whoever is listening to you. But, what if you are a brand? Can you ask that question? And if you do ask that question, what happens if your audience says horrible things back to you? How do you deal with that?

I mean, we're probably going to have to go through a few layers of approvals, right, David? Before we're allowed to post that on a company’s social media page. So maybe there's a quieter way. Maybe there's a quieter way of collecting that data.

But I'll be honest with you, my reaction to that is: even if it's a hard pill to swallow, we need that data to be able to make changes to move forward. So, hiding it or sweeping it under the rug, as we say – that's not a solution and, if anything, it's going to make the situation worse. Even if it's a tough pill to swallow, I think it's really important to get feedback. It doesn't have to be on a status update, but maybe there's a feedback survey or maybe there's some way of collecting that information – people's awareness of you – so that you can use that, ideally work towards this self-awareness we're talking about, and implement some changes in how your brand is positioned.

I would say, overall, it is harder for companies to do this versus people. Social media was designed for people; it wasn't really designed for companies (although, obviously, that's an opportunity to monetize). But, nowadays, companies are fighting for screen real estate against family members and friends. That's just the reality of it. So we see companies make an effort to humanize. How do we do that? Well, we give almost a human-like personality to a company.

When we think about, “what brands do we like to follow on social media?” I think – what's one that comes to mind? – Skittles is a lot of fun on Instagram and on social media. It's fun, so they embody this personality that complements the product, if you will. There are lots of examples out there, lots of humor, for example, used by certain brands.

But companies, to humanize, I'd say you really have three opportunities to do that. You've got, obviously, your customer, your client – the people that use your product or service. We see that often on social media: profiling someone who uses your product or service. It's always great to show us, it’s an opportunity for storytelling. The people on the inside. Employees often get forgotten about but, ideally, your employees are brand advocates of your company or product or service. And then, finally, the founders, leadership, and anyone at the top. There are usually lots of opportunities for storytelling and humanizing of a brand by digging a little bit further into the stories of the leadership or the founders, CEOs, and people at the top.

I like your suggestion of taking that question, “How you described me in one word?”, for a brand and perhaps doing it to a private group.

Perhaps a brand could have a focus group and have a set of prospective customers, ask that question, and then perhaps produce the answers, summarise the answers, and then maybe even produce a piece of public content from that. And then, ask people's general opinion from the public as a reaction to the piece of content, so it's perhaps not likely to be quite as abrasive as just asking the question on social media.

Is that a reasonable way of doing things?

I think it's reasonable. I think people will appreciate the effort put forth, in general. Again, if we adapt company behavior, if we think of it as humans: do we want people to lie or do we want people to not admit the truth? No. Even if someone has made a mistake we, more often than not, appreciate an admission of fault or a mistake, or an acknowledgment of something that can be improved.

If we look at many PR crises, that's often the advice for the best way forward. Not to ignore the issue, instead, it’s to acknowledge that there's an issue and to get specific about what's being done to rectify the situation. Companies and humans; it’s exactly the same. Again, this comes back to human behavior – and that's the part of all of this, including brand positioning, that will never change.

One brand that you actually helped out with brand positioning was a doctor. You've got a case study of that on your website. Would you like to share a little bit about that?

Oh, sure. Yeah, this is an exciting one. On my website, philpallen.co/projects, I have over 60 (I think 65) case studies, and honestly, I mention it because we've helped a lot of industries over the years. So I give it as a reference if people are wanting some inspiration on maybe how some people in their industry or other industries have positioned their brand.

I'm really excited about this one that you bring up: Dr. Lora Shahine. She's a fertility doctor and endocrinologist, and you can imagine how busy that keeps her day-to-day. She is in demand, and she's wonderful at her job. I'm specifically excited about what the internet has done to put her on an enormous digital, or virtual, stage. So, in addition to doing what she does to help patients (and that's really making a difference, it’s what drives her), she also has amassed hundreds of thousands of followers across social media platforms, like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. It's just proof that – beyond opportunities to partner with brands, and speaking engagements, and launch a podcast – she's really achieved that consistency in person and online. She has changed a lot of people's lives by creating content consistently and cultivating an audience where geography matters less than ever before. It’s been really, really fun to be a part of that process.

When I first started chatting with her, she was like, “A brand? Do I need that?” I mean, this is a doctor. She's like, “I think I just need a website.” I said, “Well, it goes a little further into that.” But she listened, she thought about it, and, more importantly, she trusted the process. That's one example on our website of how doing – even some of this thoughtful, self-reflective work, and then obviously taking action on it. I know you're a big proponent of not just thinking about all of these ideas, but actually taking action. She's just a wonderful example of how all this stuff has made such a positive impact, aligned with her goals.

Wonderful. Earlier on in our conversation, we shared some specific tips about enterprise brands and how they can specifically improve their brand positioning. But I think there's an opportunity, as well, for enterprises to actually think about which thought leaders happen to be in their organization as well. And, if there's an opportunity to actually market their brand as a result of helping them become better thought leaders and proving their own personal brands as well.

Is that a missed opportunity that enterprise has at the moment?

Yes. Yes, it is a missed opportunity. Enterprise can be challenging. I'll be the first to admit: typically (and there are some exceptions to this) enterprise or big corporate clients are typically not my favorite to work with. They pay well, but that doesn't matter to me if, after six months or a year we've done all kinds of work and we have very little to show for it. 7, 8, 9, 10 layers of approvals slow down the timeline and really dilute, a lot of times, the work that I'm really keen and excited to do. So, I'll give that disclaimer. Again, there are some exceptions to it.

The way that I approach this for enterprise is, intentionally, no different than how I might for a human or a personal brand. But yes, take a minute. Take a step back, I would say, and think about, “what are those opportunities for storytelling that you can mine?” They might be right in front of you. I think, in corporate, we get lost in all this jargon and nonsense – that you can tell I have a low level of tolerance for. I'm just like, “Oh, this is just nonsense.” We waste so much time talking about hypotheticals, and I think sometimes the best opportunities for content, the best opportunities for storytelling and for marketing, are literally standing right in front of you. They're glaring back at you. And I think that's important. I think it's important to think about that.

So, not necessarily thinking about brand positioning here. What about marketing strategy? What's the number one thing that marketers need to incorporate into their strategy?

Oh, that's a good question. I might answer this a little differently, depending on who's asking it. But, in this conversation with you, David, I would say execution is the piece that often gets missed. We spend so long or so much effort fussing about, really, minutiae. What time should I post on social media? How often should I post every week? Which social media platforms should I be active on? Now, that is an important question to ask, but maybe the wrong thing to focus on is: “Where is my audience? On which social media platforms?”

Which social media platform do you open when you're in line at the grocery store, without even thinking? Chances are you're going to create better social media content on that platform. Because you use it, you consume it, you understand it, you enjoy it. My best piece of advice is to focus on executing. Done is better than perfect. Your first video, your first reel, your first post, is probably going to be horrible. And that's something to celebrate, because every single time you go to post, it's going to get better and better and better. Do not waste time in La-la land. Just get going, and aim for continual improvement.

I’ve been your host, David Bain. You can find Phil over at philpallen.co. Phil, thanks so much for being on the Strategic Marketing Show.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

And thank you for listening. Here at IFP, our goal is simple: to connect you with the most relevant information, to help solve your business problems, all in one place. InsightsForProfessionals.com.