This week, Trisha interviews Shaikh Fadilah Ahmad, a former diplomat from Brunei, Darussalam. Shaikh Fadilah shares his rich career experiences spanning 30 years and his seamless transition to 'coffee diplomacy' after retirement -at least from the Diplomatic Service. The conversation dives into the importance of cultural intelligence (CQ) and how Fadilah applied his early learnings of respect and cultural adaptability in his diplomatic career. They also discuss his successful pivot to owning a coffee shop, mentoring young entrepreneurs, and his involvement in social causes. His passion for coffee culture and art exhibitions in his cafe is underlined, offering a unique blend of business, personal connection, and social impact.

You can connect with Fadilah on LinkedIn and/or explore his cafe (especially the cake gallery) via his website and if you are lucky enough to visit in person -enjoy!

I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:01:14] Trisha: Motivational, the drive, Cognitive, the knowledge. Metacognitive, the strategy. And behavioral, the action. And all four of these capabilities can help us operate effectively in situations of diversity. In this podcast, we focus more on the metacognitive aspect, where we think about our thinking. The CQ Strategy.

[00:01:58] Trisha: Did I pronounce the name correctly?

[00:02:01] Trisha: Thank you. He is from Brunei, Darussalam. Fadilah has enjoyed an impressive career spanning 30 years as a diplomat. In addition to his time at APEC, he served his country as ambassador to Cambodia at the UN and New York and is permanent secretary to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

[00:02:44] Trisha: He's twice been listed in the top 50 Brunei inspiring icons. So we have a lot of shifts to unpack in this conversation today. Welcome. And thank you for giving us your time Fadilah.

[00:02:58] Trisha: Wonderful to meet you too. And it was great that Bridget almost. Pushed us together and saying, you should interview him.

[00:03:07] Trisha: It's wonderful to have you here. So I want to go into all of those shifts and learn about all your thinking and your experiences. But first the questions we ask all of our guests, what is a culture other than the culture you grew up in that you have learned to love and appreciate?

[00:03:43] Fadilah: And, one of the interesting that I found as well that I was studying in an independent school in Brunei at the time, and my classmates were all from different faiths, Buddhists Christians, Hindus and even the local diocese as well. And one of the things that I was exposed to at a young age was visiting them on holidays and traditions and festivities.

[00:04:13] Fadilah: And when I started working at APEC Secretariat with Bridget back in 1996. I felt that I was exposed to those kind of values as well, and that I have to use those kind of values that I learned when I was young to adapt to cultural diversity.

[00:04:47] Fadilah: So it becomes such a practical thing and it doesn't stop you from networking and meeting. So it, it takes a kind of environment that adaptability is such a, you adapt quite easily as well because of, how I I grew up and the kind of thing that, you know, I lived when I was young.

[00:05:11] Fadilah: I see it, being a diplomat, you have to be a good soldier, meaning that you need to be prepared to wherever you go. Some people would love places like London and Paris because of, flair city, in a sense but you get to send the places as well. But I, honestly, I enjoyed where wherever I was, posted in Singapore, Cambodia, even Australia.

[00:05:39] Fadilah: Because I believe that it's up to us to create beauty in in wherever you're present.

[00:05:45] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:05:47] Trisha: I can imagine there would have been some climate differences from some of those, you know, you were talking about Canberra in Australia.

[00:05:58] Trisha: Can you tell me about a time you might've experienced a shift, you know, when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:06:37] Fadilah: Part in trying to treat a teamwork, the diversity, the cultural diversity. And I started realizing, no, you, this is where I could not just hold back. Look, I'm from Brunei I don't, do this or, but end of day was very open-minded about, adapting to a different situation.

[00:07:08] Trisha: Yeah. So it was a shift you moved comfortably into them

[00:07:26] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:07:49] Fadilah: There's a different cultural shift as well.

[00:07:52] Fadilah: yes. And, but so I, we come to adapt. Myself that look wherever I want to go, I will able to shift quickly and adapt to where I am. And I still visit Saudi Arabia once in a while because my, I have a hundred cousins there. And and it's nice to just catch up with everybody.

[00:08:15] Trisha: Do you ever have to remind yourself, where you are in terms of thinking just whether it's, you know, ways of operating that, that perhaps you have to remember to be in one place?

[00:08:32] Fadilah: Especially when you meet people, there are some do's or don'ts as well, which I pick up as well. But yeah, they're quite a close knit s family as well. So you need to understand especially when you address women or men in a sense of there are ways of doing it without them being offended.

[00:08:56] Trisha: And I do think some people do it more naturally than others the switching between ways of operating. But I think also that there's an element of learning to it as well. The countries and cultures you've lived in would have brought some challenges. And as a diplomat, the challenges become critical.

[00:09:18] Fadilah: Can I just share with you, Trisha, one of my strengths as well is a people's person. I don't know. I do meet officials, but I also like to meet people on the street for when I was in, in Cambodia, I happened to go to Siem Reap and in Siem Reap, you can visit the temples Angkor Wat, but I befriend locals at the local gym and they invited me on a cycling expedition.

And they don't know who I am. I just told them I'm a clerk at the embassy. But when they saw my photo on the video,

[00:10:15] Fadilah: So I was very lucky to get to know a few people there. So I enjoyed, and from there I learned more about the cultural. The kind of food they eat, we could have, a local, like a noodle coconut noodle broth, and no soup at one of the stops as well, or coconut water. But the whole idea is to embrace your, your interactions with local to get to understand the country better.

[00:11:12] Fadilah: So I created the kind of friendship. Anyone I meet in my travel. And they are so into solar. I met two years ago and I came to visit a coffee roastery, because I wanted to visit him because these are really important for me knowing people behind the coffee industry, what are the main, business interests and where we can find synergies.

[00:11:49] Fadilah: Through, through people.

[00:12:14] Trisha: hard work. And then at some point you decide you're going to switch and you're going to move away from diplomacy and you're going to go into coffee.

[00:12:29] Trisha: head?

[00:12:52] Fadilah: And it got me so curious. I said, why don't I do this course? It's a two day barista course, and I'm always curious what makes a good cup of joe. And I am also, and also I want to like, because when you go to cafe, you just drink coffee. But I just want to learn the tricks of the trade as well.

[00:13:24] Fadilah: The coffee skill. And I knew that I'm going to Ambassador and and I would host events. So I said, I would use this coffee skill when I brew coffee to my, for my guests, instead of, like a barista in a cafe. So it becomes one of my skills as a diplomat. I said, so I will use that. So I came back to Brunei and I went back to the ministry to work again.

[00:14:24] Fadilah: I wish I've done this, for my cafe. When I'm in cafe I'll greet my customer, even strangers and get to know them. So it really draws people to you as well, which is which I think is important Australian, hospitality with that pickup as well. So I came back to Brunei, didn't touch coffee.

[00:15:01] Fadilah: So I believe that don't worry with failure. You just have to try.

[00:15:07] Fadilah: So I redesigned one of my room at my home because the whole intention was, I just want to have some company to come drop by, have a cup of coffee and go, and I started baking. I've been baking during my diplomatic life as well as, for afternoon tea or when we host dinner, me and my wife will be a tag team.

[00:15:33] Fadilah: So I will go to the kitchen while she entertain the guests.

[00:15:40] Trisha: I just wanted to interrupt and say and I will put the links to your cafe in the show notes because if anybody just wants to go there and drool over the pictures of cakes you can do that.

[00:15:53] Trisha: you know, I'm actually salivating now as I'm just remembering them. um, one of the things that is, that I read about um, one of your blogs was about your mother and how your mother was famous for her cakes.

[00:16:20] Fadilah: Yeah, she's also a cook and a chef because

[00:16:25] Fadilah: she, yeah, she had a cooking show for 10 years and it was shown in Singapore and Malaysia. Yeah. And I was doing my O levels at the time I was helping out, just, assisting her moving things to the studio and she would ask me to do food testing in the kitchen. So I found it that I looked back that I had this kind of, interaction with her at a young age, and when I do baking, she would try my cakes as well and my cookies and she really liked it, but But I never had a one on one class with her.

[00:17:15] Fadilah: Everyone's talking about it. I was making it, and I joined a few pop ups and I sold out, maybe just, maybe 24 slices and after that, I don't have a shop. So people are asking me, where do you sell? Do you? I said, no. So I started from home and I started from home and the kitchen was only like five steps away.

[00:17:43] Trisha: so did the baking start before the coffee?

[00:17:47] Trisha: OK. They have to go together, the coffee and the cake.

[00:17:54] Fadilah: Burnt cheesecake, we do well with either a latte or a pour over coffee, which is without any milk. Those are some things that I pick up as well. And and I did certification courses in Kuala Lumpur. From a New York based organization called Specialty Coffee Association.

[00:18:19] Fadilah: But we were lucky because our minister of health said that cafes can operate, but through the window.

[00:18:32] Fadilah: But strange enough, everybody was so afraid to go out. my phone was buzzing, people want to eat. And this is an interesting story, Trisha, because I got involved in, stories of family because we have students coming back from Australia, coming back all UK, they are good quarantine in the hotel.

[00:18:52] Fadilah: they, they messaged me, Uncle Dil, can you send some gifts to my mom and can you write a message of, thank your mom for being there for us. And I was really involved in, family stories. I was really touched. And I said, I didn't like that. When you, I'm just selling coffee.

[00:19:25] Fadilah: So I had orders from abroad as well. I said, are you Dil? That's what they called me.

[00:19:39] Trisha: What a lovely thing.

[00:19:48] Fadilah: But I developed different because, and I had this kind experience creating, when you are event, but, flowers. Maybe cakes me. So I knew this kind of service. So I used this kind of to develop new business for me situation, but I really love that situation because what the children are feeling with the parents as well. so when the dad came, he said, Oh, your daughter's sent you a lovely card. I had cards. Cards from, Handicap Association, this empty card. I would buy from them. I would send written the what kind of, messages they want. Yeah. So I was developing a different kind of service apart from doing coffee and cake.

[00:20:26] Fadilah: I feel really good, you know, in that sense, of my mom was personal and I and I said, this is really interesting. You know, before I started coffee, I was joining a lot of pop ups as well. And well, I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. and I would get two young girls who just graduated, was looking for a job. We would bake, We would bake the whole thing on Saturday. Having fun and Sunday we'll get our little trays and go to a little cafe and do a pop up and the whole day we'll be so tired and Monday we just take the day off and just rest. but the girls that I I had with me, we are still good friends now

[00:21:06] Fadilah: they work in a bank, but we had good memories of working together and, you know, I enjoyed the love that we do. So so you see. After I started my retirement, I was doing different things to which I felt, I look back, I totally enjoy I said, I'm glad I chose this path.

[00:22:02] Trisha: and lots of others around the world.

[00:22:16] Fadilah: So public relation meeting, customers are very important, which I also train my staff. You just have to say hello to anybody because, uh, you end up, you know, they become your friends.

[00:22:41] Fadilah: definitely.

[00:22:49] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:23:13] Fadilah: So basically if you stay you know, near the mosque or near Radisson Hotel, what are the cafes around it?

[00:23:20] Trisha: Yes. Depending on the quality of the cafe

[00:23:42] Fadilah: They won't have this kind of, You know, cafe culture, when you go to Melbourne, you can find people catching up. And, so I said, no, I like that. And I, I want to kind of feel, cause I still miss my time in, in Australia. I mean, I love Sydney. I love Melbourne. And I would sit down at Ports Point suburb, you know, cafe, just watch the world pass by. so I said, I want, to have that. So. in the home cafe, which is a starting point. And because I have no business background. I have no. measurement skills apart from my work, but I use that kind of opportunity as my stepping stone because during COVID because of, you know, we cannot, be together in one room.

[00:24:41] Trisha: And then another factor that you've done is thinking about others setting up in business as well. And I understand that you're mentoring or, you know, have a process for helping other entrepreneurs.

[00:24:59] Fadilah: So I did a few, entrepreneurship, basically I found I hit 800,

[00:25:07] Fadilah: It was a public forum of 800 people. and 70 percent of them were teachers and they were looking for something to do, like, what if I quit my teaching job And go to apprenticeship? I was helping them to start something uh, something new or try to inspire them. If you think you're quite passionate about it,

[00:25:26] Fadilah: And how to do markets on social media, how to promote your business.

[00:25:52] Fadilah: And also apart from entrepreneurship, I was involved in a few other social causes as well. Mental health was a big issue during COVID because, we're talking about, recurring mental meltdown and, trying to adapt with situations. So I work with the Department of Psychiatry at our local hospital.

[00:26:37] Trisha: Oh wow.

[00:26:39] Fadilah: we, removed the, social stigma. It was full of people. Doctors came down, and they were just interested to see me, and the Minister of Health was there as well. But it was such a success that, people can just pass by, look at the exhibition, or just have a chat with a counsellor without feeling, they are a patient,

[00:27:28] Fadilah: I want to do this because I thought it was quite close to me as well. And so I, my plan was making sure that men would pick up either information about breast cancer and understanding how to support either their spouse or their family members about, coping with the disease.

[00:28:02] Fadilah: If they're not well, and see a doctor or seek out, uh, some help. So these are, so apart from doing business, I am involved all these different social causes as well

[00:28:15] Fadilah: From the coffee.

[00:28:23] Fadilah: It may be, I don't know,but no, I think, I think more, no, Trisha, it's more from the coffee from the cafe.

[00:28:57] Fadilah: Thank you.

[00:28:58] Fadilah: Thank you. And but I'm also now, I've also created some space for art exhibition in the cafe. So I have walls. I left it empty, but every two months I invite a local artist to just to show some of their work. Because I want if you're a regular to the cafe, you see different things every two months.

[00:29:30] Fadilah: or a Star Wars spaceship. It's so beautiful and The thing that came up for me was like, people think it's easy, but it's a lot of hard work, you appreciate art in that sense.

[00:30:12] Fadilah: So I'm very instrumental with that as well. Yeah.

[00:30:25] Fadilah: no, I had vision when I started to say. So after two years at the my home cafe, I moved to Brigham Montana. I have a shop for the past two years

[00:30:36] Trisha: Dil's Cafe

[00:30:43] Fadilah: Two was what if I fail? I think everybody will go through this. So I should, so far it's been the cafe doing well.

[00:30:53] Fadilah:

[00:30:58] Fadilah: And uh, it was so funny because when I planned the renovation and the starting of the cafe, I was invited to go to Indonesia to be a judge for a coffee competition, And I left the opening of my cafe a week and went to Jakarta for a week.

[00:31:17] Fadilah: I left it.

[00:31:23] Fadilah: I will never Have the opportunity again. But I had a wonderful time because the judges are all, it's for Indonesia, Indonesian coffee art battle. I'm the only Bruneian invited. And the first time I see my, photo up at the wall, the judges, I felt, you know, this cultural shift, this, you know, it's a different feel, you know, and uh, and I said, I'm so glad I came

[00:31:57] Trisha: That's lovely. Yeah. And you came back

[00:32:02] Trisha: and the cafe was still going and successful.

[00:32:15] Fadilah: Vegan and then because of COVID we had issue with logistics. Sometime, you know, we rely on Australia for strawberries and shipment issues

[00:32:25] Fadilah: No strawberries,

[00:32:27] Fadilah: Yeah. And no cream cheese from Victoria,

[00:32:31] Fadilah: milk, so that's the challenge we face. So I had to start thinking about doing different things and maybe not fruit based or But it's been fun because I use a lot of my childhood memories to create recipes. And I always I always thought when, cause when I live in Australia, I like how the Australian bake rustic, using just fruits, coffee, chocolate tea, or for instance to, to flavor the bake. And that doesn't have to look beautiful, but when you eat it, oh, this is nice. And have it coffee and tea. So I use those kind of, my memory in creating things as well. and, so

[00:33:12] Fadilah: when I went to Taiwan, I pick up a lychee cheesecake with Osmanthus oolong tea.

[00:33:21] Trisha: So where does the, because listeners, let me tell you from the pictures anyway, these cakes look amazing. So where did the look come from? Where did you pick up the look?

[00:33:32] Trisha: Okay.

[00:33:43] Fadilah: what do they bake in? Like There's a cafe called Tuscanon in Collingwood, they just focus on tarts. They will do like lemon meringue, you know, banoffee pie

[00:34:10] Trisha: Yeah, that's amazing. That is amazing. I think you've created a lot of inspiration for people. So you can shift listeners from careers in diplomacy to careers and passions in a very different field. Yeah, which is amazing and

[00:34:49] Fadilah: Because

[00:35:17] Fadilah: So far, I think it's been five years since I retired. I really enjoyed what I do.

[00:35:30] Trisha: Coffee creates the friendship and the bridge to have a conversation anywhere.

[00:35:35] Trisha: That's so encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for that. And thank you for sharing your story. It's been lovely. I really appreciate it. So I'm going to put in the show notes. I will put your LinkedIn profile because that's often how people who are listening connect with people, but I'll also put The link to your, website.

[00:36:08] Fadilah: I would love to, let me know.

[00:36:42] Fadilah: Thank you, Trisha Keep inspiring.

[00:36:46] Fadilah: Okay.

[00:36:48] Trisha: will do my best. thank you And thank you listeners. And please, don't forget to push the subscribe or follow button to make sure that you will receive the next episode of The Shift.