We are in person at the 2024 Animal Forensic Conference in Gainesville, Florida! Dr. G will be interviewing several of the speakers to give our audience a bit of the knowledge gained through the presentations. We will be releasing each interview individually to allow our listeners to find topics of interest.

Snakes! What you don't know may hurt you. Robert O'Horo from Florida Fish and Wildlife discusses the venomous snakes most commonly found in the U.S., the mechanism of their venom, and how to avoid a deadly encounter.

We would also like to invite our listeners involved in animal cruelty investigations to visit and join the International Society for Animal Forensic Sciences https://isafs.org/

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Our next guest is Robert O'Horo and he's going to be talking

2

to us about venomous reptiles.

3

Thank you very much for being

here and welcome to The Junction.

4

Robert O'Horo: Well, thanks for having me.

5

DrG: Can we start by telling us

your background, uh, your education

6

and where you're at right now?

7

Robert O'Horo: Sure.

8

Uh, I'm a retired lawyer.

9

I went to law school, practiced law

for about 10 years, uh, decided I

10

wanted to do something different.

11

Ended up taking a job with Florida Fish

and Wildlife 18 and a half years ago.

12

I'm an investigator for Florida

Fish and Wildlife now for about

13

the past 10 years, uh, focusing in

the, uh, Captive Wildlife Division.

14

DrG: Excellent.

15

So this is a topic that is kind of creepy

for me because I am afraid of snakes.

16

So I guess the main question

is, what is the difference

17

between venomous and poisonous?

18

Robert O'Horo: Well, I'm not

a trained biologist, but I

19

do know that answer to that.

20

So, uh, poison is something you ingest.

21

Um, so if it's, uh, a mushroom,

it's going to be poisonous.

22

Uh, certain frogs , if you were to ingest

them, they're poison dart frogs because

23

they're poisonous, they secrete a poison.

24

Venomous is usually something

that's injected, uh, like a

25

sting, or fangs from a snake

26

.

DrG: What are the most common snakes that we're going to find in the, in the U.

27

S.

28

that are venomous?

29

Robert O'Horo: Um, I would say our

rattlesnakes are the most well known.

30

Uh, there's about 32

species of rattlesnakes,

31

throughout the United States.

32

So most states, not all, but most

states have at least one rattlesnake.

33

Um, and so that's pretty common.

34

Uh, we've got the cottonmouths and, and

copperheads, which are found more in

35

the eastern part of the United States.

36

DrG: Now, does the venom differ

between snakes or do they all

37

do kind of the same thing?

38

Um,

39

Robert O'Horo: Uh, no, there's

quite a bit of difference.

40

Uh, and there's people that have

spent their careers analyzing

41

venom, and how it differs.

42

So it differs among, um, the

families of venomous snakes.

43

So there's, you know, the elapid family,

which is the cobras and the coral snakes.

44

They have a particular type of

venom, uh, neurotoxic that tends

45

to, to work on the nervous system.

46

And then of course you've got

the rattlesnakes and some other

47

snakes that have venom that acts

more to digest tissue and flesh.

48

And then, of course, there's all of these

snakes that have a mixture and there's all

49

different types of, of venom components.

50

There's like certain toxins

that affect the heart.

51

Um, some snakes have that, some don't.

52

Um, so it's, it's extremely complex.

53

Um, I'm certainly not an

expert in, in that complexity.

54

And there's, there's people that

have spent their entire life, uh,

55

researching, analyzing and categorizing

the different types of venoms.

56

DrG: So when somebody gets bitten

by one of these snakes, is the

57

venom like universal or are there

different types of antivenom?

58

Robert O'Horo: It really depends.

59

So we've done something

here in the United States.

60

We've created, , or a company

has created, polyvalent.

61

anti venom for viper bites

here in the United States.

62

So if you're bitten, for example,

in Florida, whether you're bitten

63

by a cottonmouth, a copperhead, an

eastern diamondback rattlesnake, or

64

a, uh, a pygmy rattlesnake, you're

going to get the same anti venom.

65

So if you go to a hospital and

you've got swelling and two, you

66

know, snake bite marks, two fang

marks, and you can't identify the

67

snake, it's okay because you're going

to get the anti venom that works.

68

And the way they do that is when

they create the anti venom, they

69

use venom from all of those snakes

to create the plasma that they're

70

going to create the anti venom from.

71

So that's a little bit different with

coral snakes that requires a particular

72

antivenom specific to coral snakes.

73

But once you get outside of

the United States, um, there's

74

probably, you know, over 600

species of venomous, uh, reptiles.

75

There's all kinds of anti venoms

and usually, you know, in those

76

situations, you need to know

what you've been bitten by.

77

Um, there are other countries that

are producing anti venoms that are

78

also polyvalent for their area.

79

Um, but, you know, it's,

it gets complicated.

80

DrG: I've always heard about being

able to look at, like, the snake's eyes

81

to determine if it's venomous or not.

82

Is that true?

83

And also, like, what kind of things

do people need to pay attention

84

to, to identify the type of snake

to see if it's venomous or not?

85

Robert O'Horo: So, that can be, that can

assist you in making an identification,

86

but I wouldn't lean on eye shape, mainly

because if it's a, if it's a venomous

87

snake that has an elliptical pupil, if

it's If it's dark out and the pupils

88

dilated, that's going to appear round.

89

Um, so, and there are snakes that are

non venomous that have elliptical pupils.

90

So, that's not, I mean, I

wouldn't, I wouldn't favor that

91

as my primary go to warning.

92

But, and plus you usually have

to be pretty close to see that.

93

Um, I would just become familiar with

the snakes in your area where you live,

94

uh, because, you know, we do have a lot

of diversity here in the United States.

95

Although we have 32 rattlesnake

species, give or take, um, they

96

don't all occur in one place.

97

So if you live in Utah, there's a

handful of snakes you should know.

98

Uh, if you live in Florida, there's

six that you should know, um, if

99

you're going to be outdoors and

recreating and things like that.

100

DrG: I've been in some cruelty cases,

cruelty investigations that are out in

101

the wild and they they'll tell us these

are the snakes that are in this area.

102

And I'm certainly not going around

looking for these snakes, but how

103

aggressive are these snakes like do.

104

Do you have to worry about just

walking around minding your own

105

business and them coming out of

your, out of their way to bite you?

106

Robert O'Horo: No, not here.

107

Uh, at least in the United States,

it seems like most of our snakes

108

are pretty defensive in nature.

109

Um, I've had a lot of experience, uh,

with Eastern diamondback rattlesnakes,

110

and I would say every single one that

I've approached has tried to get away.

111

And I'll often hear stories of

people who stepped right next to

112

one and the snake didn't bite.

113

Now, if they had stepped on it, they

probably would have been, been bitten.

114

But, um, yeah, we just don't seem to

have any snakes that go out of their way.

115

I the cottonmouth has had a

reputation for chasing people.

116

Uh, and they sometimes do come towards

people, but usually it's because they're

117

trying to flee to where they perceive

safety is, and you're just in the way.

118

Um, so I tell people if a cottonmouth

is coming straight at you, get off

119

the X, move, and chances are it will

continue on its way, on its path.

120

Um, there are snakes in other

countries that aren't quite like that.

121

I've dealt with some cobras myself

that when they get agitated,

122

they will come after you.

123

And when you do get off the X, they

will change course and follow you.

124

Um, and black mambas have

been known to do that.

125

So there are snakes in the

world that are aggressive, but

126

I don't think we have any here.

127

DrG: So if somebody is going to be going

to a different area and wants to become

128

acquainted with what kind of snakes to

expect, what, what resources are out

129

there to be able to find that information?

130

Robert O'Horo: So if it's the United

States, the DNR, uh, Department

131

of Natural Resources for that

particular state, almost all states

132

have a really good web page.

133

Um, and, you know, there's a lot

of good resources online now.

134

Um, I would just try to make sure you

get, get it from some reputable source,

135

whether it's the DNR in that state or, or,

or something, not just a random web page.

136

DrG: Great.

137

Well, thank you so much for

being here and for sharing this

138

information and for what you do.

139

Robert O'Horo: Well, thank you.

140

I appreciate it.