Serena talks with Cinzia Silvia Melograna, Talent partner and Recruitment expert, about how recruitment has changed during the pandemic, how can you propose yourself when you are coming back to work to a new company and how you can take care of yourself after a rejection.

You can find more information about Cinzia here:

• Cinzia's Linkedin

You have to find what is making you feel good.

It's maybe a 10 minutes reading a book every day, or it could be cooking or

it could be take your dog out or maybe helping us supporting someone else.

Then it's not you.

Maybe it's just I don't know, being in the silence of your house.

And I think we had a lot of time during the pandemic to be alone.

And this also brought a lot of loneliness, I would say.

So maybe don't don't be at home alone, get out of the house,

have a look what's around.

And find the pleasure in the little things.

I think this is what we have, maybe we have forgotten.

Now we are maybe going to the mood of forgetting it again, but appreciate

of the little things that you have

. Serena: Today.

We are talking with Cinzia Silvia Melograna, talent

partner and recruitment expert.

We are going to talk about our recruitment has changed.

During the pandemic.

How can you propose yourself when you are coming back to work to a new company and

to the recruiter and also about wellbeing and how human resources can really shape

a new wellbeing culture inside the C.

welcome Cinzia.

I'm super happy to have you here.

You have a lot of experience on recruitment and I'm wondering our

recruitment has changed since the pandemic

started.

First thank you for hosting me.

Today.

It's also a pleasure on my side.

So how recruitment has changed?

There is a huge difference between three years ago and now

we can see that candidates are looking for different things.

Hiring process have changed.

The hiring managers are also available to be a bit more open

minded regarding certain topics and certain skill set as well.

And we can talk for hours about the topic but definitely what the

candidates are are looking for.

A flexible work environment.

This is potentially one of the first let's say benefit, which I don't call it

benefit because it's not, it's it's more a mindset or an attitude or, and also

part of the culture of the companies.

And the candidates they want to work.

I don't know, fully remote, partially remote in a hybrid setup, set up Not

to nine to five anymore, but maybe more flexible because maybe they have to

pick up the kids from the kindergarten.

Maybe they have to do grocery because they are fully remote and they have

nothing in the fridge to eat at lunch.

And maybe because before the I don't know the start day starting

the day they go for a run.

So they want to start at the time that they feel most comfortable, obviously.

What the companies they should take in consideration is that

we are all grownups, all adults.

And we should be all accountable for our responsibilities.

Although maybe you can see that sometimes people, instead of, taking

the finger, they take the entire hand

. Serena: Why do you think it's so

employer that we are adults

I think it's a matter of trusting each other.

So if you start in the company tomorrow, you should also start tomorrow to,

to have the trust relationship with your manager, your coworkers, and

maybe even the founder, if you're really close to so trust it's the

pillar of your freedom in a sense.

Because only with a trustful relationship, you will be able to succeed.

To be able to . Be yourself also at work and be able to yeah.

Share your knowledge at a certain point..

Any advice on how to build trust during the recruitment process,

where you are doing job interviews that are always stressful, but you

know that it's important to build the

trust.

I think uh, a hiring process, a 50 50 process, because it's also part of my

job as a recruiter, to show what is the culture of the company and to trust the

process and the candidate at the same time from the candidate perspective, the

candidate should also be accountable.

For example, of, yeah.

I scale a meeting for today at 2:00 PM and I should be there.

If you cannot be there, please, let the recruiter know in advance because

obviously, it's a waste of time.

For both side as well.

So if you don't do that, then maybe the trust is lacking from the start

and that's not a really good sign.

And towards the different stages of the process, you should also, I don't know,

write a nice, back to the hiring manager, thanking the person that you enjoy, the

call that you want to move forward, that you are excited, that you are thankful.

Because this is a, also a good sign for the it manager, the recruiter

in charge to, to move on with you and not with someone else.

And at the end, it's up to us to decide to accept an offer or not.

But my advice is not to, I don't know hand the process and maybe not be so sure

that you want to be part of that company.

So maybe tackle your doubts a little bit before.

So nobody's wasting time.

How can a candidate make sure to be authentic in his, or her request?

For remote work hybrid for accommodation when they feel the pressure of, if I say

something, maybe they're not going to

choose me.

I would say that you should pick the words with a bit carefully.

Let's say there is always a way to say things in a kind in a very nice, positive

way, even if things are not positive.

So choose the words effectively be yourself because what I'm also trying to

understand when I speak with candidates is if they are a cultural, because I.

What is the culture and how are the people inside the company.

But I want to get to know you and something else is that please don't lie.

Please don't lie about your experience, your skills.

And if you have a gap, for example, in your curriculum, because maybe

I don't know you were sick or.

You took a maternity or paternity leave, or for example, you had to be the

caretaker of maybe one of your parents or you just have decided to, I don't know,

take care of yourself, don't hide it.

I would rather appreciate to see that and to listen to your stories instead of.

Having, I don't know, a fake three months, so I did this course and you have

never done it because I will find it out

. What you have also to think is that

human that might have been through the same exactly things that you

have been, but you just don't know and it's okay to feel cared or feel

overwhelmed to share your story or your

. Your moment of downside, let's say but

with it has been in, , through the same.

I had a candidate a couple of months ago for a very high let's say role.

It was a director role.

And then she mentioned that in the past year, she could not work

because she had to take care of her husband that had multiple

surgeries and the multiple strokes.

So I never been in that position.

I have never experienced that, but I had almost tears in my eyes because

obviously she was so candid and so pure.

And so open to talk about it that I don't know, I would have not

think of listen or hearing this.

So I appreciated that.

She said I couldn't work because I had to take care of my husband.

It was a very emotional interview afterwards.

So I had to put myself together and to continue and not thinking

of how she has been taking care of this person herself too.

. Be open minded, be yourself.

That's my advice as well.

And do you think we are more open to create a personal

connection now that we are fully remote in comparison to before when we

were meeting face to face?

That's a very good question.

I am someone that has been through the different stages of being in office,

being hybrid and being fully remote.

For me being fully remote means uh, a lot more than being in a office,

but this doesn't mean that I don't like people that I don't wanna

interact, that I don't like to talk.

I am all of this.

But I also like the freedom of being in my comfort space at home where

I have the set up to work perfectly from home where I have silence, where

I don't have to file to have a phone booth or a meeting room where I don't

have any kind of distraction of people coming to my desk asking questions.

Yes, I miss the water cooler talks as we.

But I can also jump on a coffee chat or on water cooler chat on a Google Hangouts.

And if I look back, I don't know where I would find what I was finding

all the time to do everything.

Cause now I can do grocery from home.

I can switch on.

Washing machine . I can cook healthy foods.

If I want, I can go for a walk during lunch you have to find

your way, and I understand that fully remote is not for everyone.

So for some candidates, it's the have as it was for me, for example

for some others, they really want to go back to the office.

So it's up to you what you want and to see which kind of employer is gonna

give you what you are looking for.

Being a recruiter sometimes is a lonely place where you need

to face the expectation from the candidates, the expectation from the

company and you are in the middle.

Yeah.

Also dealing with a lot of emotions.

Any suggestion or any advice on how to take care of ourself

when you are in a recruitment

position.

Yes, I do have some advices and for sure it's to put some boundaries and

to create a very a very trustful relationship with your stakeholders

especially the hire managers for the roles that you are taking care.

If.

If you go fast, they go fast.

If you are on time, they're on time.

If you are accountable, they're accountable, we are needed by example.

So if I show you that things have to be done in a certain

way, then they do it that way.

And also it's there is a say that I don't know if I like it or not,

but it's fake it until you make it.

I dunno if I am totally with.

But be be you in the meetings with these people and and be as well.

Yeah a bit I would say confident that you are the expert and

they're going to listen to you.

I have learned on my skin multiple times.

To say no how to say no.

This is a huge topic.

And I think most of us have or are struggling with this.

And it's it's something that you learn by experience.

You learn by making mistake and you learn by doing it.

When you start your job, I don't know.

You are maybe 23, 24, 25, whatever.

It's your first time in an office or in a work environment you say yes to everything

because you don't want to miss out.

You don't want to lose your job.

You want to, for your country to be extended.

You want to prove yourself after some years you say no to those.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Because the boundaries are set also by yourself.

Okay.

What is making me feel good?

What can I do?

How can I support?

Yeah, it's a learning, it's a, like a working progress, I would say.

People are coming back to work.

After let's say the pandemic, and it's a challenge for a lot of them for a lot

of us And there is this discussion around the greater resignation, meaning that

a lot of people are quitting their job, and they're trying to find a new job.

And with that I want to ask you, how can I, really understand if the company.

It's a good cultural fit

Also, good question.

So there are different things that you can do.

First of all, most of the company are on Glassdoor.

Glassdoor is a platform and a us platform that.

Working on a global level and there, you will find the profiles

of the companies, the comments of the current past employees.

You could also see comments from people that have been in the hiring process.

You could see how the founders and the CEOs are rated.

You have a bit of idea by the comments.

What is the reputation?

Another thing that you can do is to.

Spy or let's say on, on, on profiles that maybe they would do their same

job or that there would they be in the team that you would like to join and

maybe start to add them on LinkedIn and contact them, asking a I am.

Looking for a new challenge.

And I eventually saw there is disposition available, open and yeah, before maybe

sending my application, I have a couple of questions, send your questions

and start to have a conversation.

Maybe you will end up that this person will not refer you.

And that's also a very good thing.

If it's not happening, it's a new connection.

And you can do whatever you want with that after.

The third thing is that now that we are, let's say coming back to the offices,

those, that those company that have an office they are also starting recruitment

events were, I don't know Night evening at the office of the employer, whatever.

So you can always have a look at those events and maybe go there and check it

out and see if that's the environment that you want to work in and with.

And then you can also, it's a bit against maybe my belief in the, a recruiter and

maybe just apply and see what's happen.

And the best that you can do is to ask all your questions to the

recruiter that is usually the first person that you will be speaking with.

Ask what's the culture looking like?

What is the cross functional?

I don't know, team work Do you have any offsite where people can meet

or how is the office, where is it?

It depends obviously, which company you apply for, but there are

different things to that you can do.

I don't I would say don't be shy.

Don't be discouraged because I've been approached so many times from

maybe because I'm a recruiter.

I don't know.

They always contact me, obviously.

But those people that contact me, maybe they left the seed in

my head and I'm like, ah, yeah.

I know that person.

, applying to a job is is like dating.

You don't know, you don't know who you have in front of you.

You will have to find it out somehow.

That's the advice is go for it and see if it's a fit, if it's a match or not.

Come to the interviews, always with a couple of questions and.

What I also usually appreciate is oh, you were saying, blah, blah.

And then you make your, and you ask the question refer to something that the

recruiter I have said, and then attach yourself to that and ask something.

The interview should not be a question and answer.

It should be more like a conversation.

This is how I usually do my interviews.

It's not if I have to ask specific questions or like specific things.

Yes.

But not always.

So I don't know those that don't have questions that they

get me a bit on the nerve.

I would say maybe come on, ask me about how the team is structured

or what is expected from me or.

Do you have any events?

I dunno.

Anything you can ask me, I'm there for you, so yeah, like you said,

it's like dating and you cannot date someone without

asking you any question.

Exactly.

An interview is a 50 50, as I said before, because I have to either

sell you something, meaning the company and the culture and the

people and the role, but also for you to sell yourself to me and to.

And to get to know each other and to see if it's a mutual match or not.

So yeah, if you are, for example, sick that day or your energy level

is not high enough for, I don't know, you had a very bad sleeping night or

you are late for whatever is because you are stuck in the traffic already.

Let the recruiter.

We are sometimes very flexible sometimes because it's, maybe there are period where

we are very busy and that's the only lot that we have for you in some other times.

Maybe it's okay to reschedule.

. Serena: And.

Rejection.

It's something that is part of the life of the recruiter.

Any suggestion on how to handle the rejection as a candidate, without thinking

that is linked to your self value and your self esteem and these kind of things?

That's also, , very interesting to answer.

The question that this person after rejection should ask is

did they learn something new?

First, second question is, did they give my hundred percent

during the hiring process?

And the third question would be, could have done anything better.

So if you have answers this answer, these questions, you are already half

of the way of accepting the rejection.

But you really need to ask those questions before moving forward

to maybe do another application.

A rejection is a learning opportunity.

This is the way you should see it.

At the very beginning of my career, when I was trying to enter in the Milan market

because I am eventually from Milan.

I received zero responses maybe because it was the time or maybe because I was very

lucky and maybe because I was applying to jobs that were not okay for me, but

. If I have a candidate in the

stage I would like to know from the candidate perspective that

they have learned something new.

If you get to know someone and it's not a match, but you have learned something new.

Why not?

Take it with as a learning opportunity.

. And I know that it's disappointing.

I've been there.

And I know that it's a bit like annoying and frustrating to apply.

Apply, not to get the job that you wanted, but you also have to know

that there are us as recruiters.

We have also a sort of like a rejection conduct that we cannot really tell you

in details by email, for example, why we have rejected you, we better, jump on

a call and explain you further by law.

We cannot do that.

So if our rejections are a bit vague or a bit general, don't

take it or she doesn't care, but.

It's because we cannot really do that.

A lot of people are dealing with a lot of personal struggles.

Link it somehow to the pandemic right now.

And of course maybe they are not really in the right place to share those or it's

still difficult, . Any advice on how to.

Do your job in the best way, when you know that you have personal stuff

in your mind that are taking a toll on your mental, physical health.

I have been there fortunately, or unfortunately, Because nobody was

expecting a pandemic . When you are not feeling well, but not just like the,

you wake up or today, I don't feel well.

It's more like a constant repeated thing that would also happen during the weekend

where work is potentially not happening.

Then maybe creating some positive routines in your life will help

you to go through the day and through the weeks months and the.

I find myself looking for an healthy life that would bring me eventually to a point

where I would be happy with my work, my body and my mental health, my environment.

I would be happy with my friends, family.

So you need to find the, what I can't tell you what to do because

everyone is different and everyone has different introspection.

And the way of doing things for me worked to have routine they'd say that

to take a routine, it takes 21 days.

So you have to like constantly repeat those things for that period of time.

But I can't tell you why you have to meditate every day.

You have to exercise, you have to healthy food, the no McDonald's you, you have

to find what is making you feel good.

It's maybe a 10 minutes reading a book every day, or it could be cooking or

it could be take your dog out or maybe helping us supporting someone else.

Then it's not you.

Maybe it's just I don't know, being in the silence of your house.

And I think we had a lot of time during the pandemic to be alone.

And this also brought a lot of loneliness, I would say.

So maybe don't don't be at home alone, get out of the house,

have a look what's around.

And find the pleasure in the little things.

I think this is what we have, maybe we have forgotten.

Now we are maybe going to the mood of forgetting it again, but

appreciate of the little things that you have those they will make.

I don't know, maybe your mood a bit better.

There is an exercise that I like to do.

It's there are two, eventually one is the beginning of the week you put down

your intention, maybe 1, 2, 3, as much as you want intention for that week.

What I want to achieve, what is my goal for this week?

And then the other one is at the end of the day, every

day you put down what I were.

For what I am grateful for today, and if you track it down for maybe a month to

three as much as you wish you see that you are grateful maybe for the same things.

So maybe for the different base on your life cycle and

what's happening in your life.

And also the goal, the weekly goals, they can change on a weekly basis.

I like to work with short term goals, long term goals and the

impossible goals that you never know.

It's like the dreams in the draw, and it's giving you a sense of

achievement, success and happiness.

And it's just taking you two minutes per day.

So this is the exercises that I would maybe give as an advice.

They're powerful.

You will feel afterwards.

I will try them for sure.

We are, we were, and we will be in the same boat, no matter.

Where we are, which color of skin you have, which job you do, we

are all human and we should be approaching each other with kindness

and with a smile, I would say.

Not everyone is as positive as I am.

I have learned to be maybe I was always, I don't know, you

you have ups and downs and life.

It's a roller coaster, as I always say.

So take it as it comes and and think that you are not alone.

. It's so beautiful

and so powerful.

Thank you so

much.

Thank you for listening to this episode, please share it with friends then needs

to hear this important conversation.

You can find more information in the description or on the website.

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