Shownotes
I assert at the outset that equipment performance and transparent, data‑driven testing are paramount to achieving predictable results on the golf course. I explain that small factors such as dirt or grass in the grooves can change spin and create unexpected flyers, so we must keep clubs clean and check faces before shots. I describe how experienced testers can read club geometry to predict launch and spin, but we also caution against marketing claims that outpace relevant testing conditions. I emphasize that golfers should use launch monitors to learn their own club head speed, launch angle, and spin rate and to compare equipment under appropriate conditions. I note that modern simulators now reproduce ball flight well and are valuable for practice, social play, and home use, while arena formats like TGL need entertainment and personality to fully succeed. I recommend seeking mentors and doing regular equipment and swing checkups to improve steadily. We close by urging players to use data, maintain their gear, and play with intention.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Grilling at the Green After Hours
- Golf Labs
- Vaseline
- Revlon
- USGA (United States Golf Association)
- Golf Digest
- Spotify
- TGL
- Inside the NBA
- YouTube
- Netflix
- Coachella
- Pinehurst
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Welcome to Grilling at the Green After Hours.
Speaker A:The conversation that took place after the show ended.
Speaker A:Everybody, welcome to After Hours here on Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:I'm jt.
Speaker A:We've got Gene Parente with us today from Golf Labs.
Speaker A:I love talking to Gene because it's always a balanced pun intended for golf conversation.
Speaker A:We can get off in the weeds on the tech stuff, but we also talk about, you know, the differences in people playing and their swings and that type of thing.
Speaker A:So I love that.
Speaker A:Are there, are there times, and I kind of asked this in the, in the regular show, but are there times when your group is testing something and you already know the outcome within, within, you know, 2 yards or 20ft or whatever, doesn't matter.
Speaker A:But you can look at something and say, this seven iron, I bet won't go over 152.
Speaker A:I'm just making stuff up.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:For the most part, you can kind of look at a club and, you know, feel the flex and go, okay, this club's going to launch high.
Speaker B:It's going to spin a lot.
Speaker B:And because of that is probably going to be shorter.
Speaker B:You can, you know, I, you know, you look down at a player's blade and go, this is really going to be bad on toe shots.
Speaker B:And sure enough, it's bad on toe shots.
Speaker B:So, I mean, there are certain geometrical tells that you can, you know, see in golf equipment that, you know, how it's going to perform.
Speaker A:Do you think that one of the things, and this is just a very rudimentary thing, but one thing I've gotten kind of fanatical about is, is keeping the grooves clean and, and taking care of the grooves on my irons because, you know, I, I, if you're playing up here, we got a lot of wet weather, and so you clean those out or wipe them off with your towel and maybe a damp towel or whatever, you clean them off, you and you take a tea and you try to clean that out there.
Speaker A:Now, I've got a little groove thing that I just kind of more methodical about it because I've learned that that one little microscopic pebble or piece of dirt can make something not good happen.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:As a matter of fact, you know, hustlers back in the day, we're talking like the 50s and 60s.
Speaker B:My dad used to tell me they used to keep Vaseline, and, you know, it was a long par three and into the wind, they'd have some Vaseline around their nose and they'd rub it on the grooves and they lower the spin and get an extra 10 or 15 yards.
Speaker B:That's what grass or anything's doing is.
Speaker B:It's reducing the grab that the ball can have on the face and it's going to create flyers.
Speaker B:If you know that that's going to happen, you can play to it.
Speaker B:But if you don't know what's going to happen, you pick a distance and all of a sudden you sail a green.
Speaker B:So golf is about control and it's about expect.
Speaker B:And you want your equipment to perform when you put a good swing on it to the expectations.
Speaker B:And something like dirt or grass or anything in a groove is definitely going to affect the outcome and therefore your expectation with that club.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, you can hit a decent drive, get it out there in the middle.
Speaker A:You can hit a decent, you know, 5, 6, 7.
Speaker A:However you're playing, you can do that.
Speaker A:And you get in that 90 yards or less and you're not paying attention and all of a sudden you, you skyrocketed one way off to the right and it's not so much always your swing, but which definitely has something to do with it.
Speaker A:But you know, you didn't pay attention to your club and there's dirt in the way and that type of thing.
Speaker B:I'll tell you where it happens.
Speaker B:And it happens to me.
Speaker B:Even you, you get in a groove.
Speaker B:Let's say you're in the first cut and you take your first couple of practice swings and it's a little wet and all of a sudden you look down and there's a lot of grass on that base.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:But you've just taken your two practice swings, you feel like you're in the groove.
Speaker B:And so instead of stopping, leaning down, cleaning the face off, you, you, you square it up and swing.
Speaker B:And suddenly you create a flyer.
Speaker B:Because of that, I am is just as guilty of it.
Speaker B:It's like you need to stop, step back, clean that face and start over again.
Speaker B:As far as the process, if there's anything on that face, and especially in rough, when you're taking practice swings when it's wet, it is definitely going to affect the ball when it comes off the face.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:Was there ever a time when you were sitting at home or in a hotel room, because you spent a lot of time in hotel rooms and you're looking at the tv, maybe you're watching the golf channel and you see a product come on and they're touting, its wonderful, you know, really changing the world of golf and all this stuff.
Speaker A:And you ever Sit there and go, no, it doesn't.
Speaker A:You don't.
Speaker A:I'm not asking you to name names or anything like that, but it's maybe something you've even tested.
Speaker A:And you go, no, that's not right.
Speaker B:Once again, is this after hours or is this off the air?
Speaker A:Yeah, this is that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:This one doesn't go on radio, but it does go out in the pod world.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:The bottom line is they're.
Speaker B:So here's what you have in golf club companies.
Speaker B:I think you have them in most companies, but definitely in golf club companies, you have research and development, which creates what is possible.
Speaker B:And then you have marketing that takes that and amplifies that to a N degree.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:There's a great quote.
Speaker B:Dick Ruggie, who is a former president of the RNA, or usga, told me this quote, and it was by a chairman of Revlon in the 60s or 70s, and he spoke to his room full of mostly male salesmen at the time, and he said, gentlemen, we do not sell lipstick.
Speaker B:We sell hope.
Speaker B:And that's the golf industry right there.
Speaker B:And so it's.
Speaker B:As a consumer, you really have to learn to cut through the hype.
Speaker B:And what we try to do with my partner and I, Jonathan Wall, at Golf Digest, what we try to do is we work really hard in Golf Digest of presenting data, just data, like I said, not any subjective analysis.
Speaker B:If you want, what's the highest launching, lowest spinning?
Speaker B:The lowest launching, highest spinning, the most forgiving, the club that goes furthest to the left.
Speaker B:We give you a data and let you decide.
Speaker B:And what we try to do is empower the consumer to take all that marketing hype and put it to the side and just look at numbers and see.
Speaker B:Now the, the main key, though, and this is a challenge especially for the beginning golfers and the less serious golfers, you have to know your own data to be able to jump into this, into the pool and, you know, compare.
Speaker B:The beauty of it is there's launch monitors everywhere.
Speaker B:There's launch monitors at retail outlets that they'll let you on for free to hit shots.
Speaker B:So it's, it's a matter of how seriously you're taking the game.
Speaker B:But if you do want to improve, not only from a lesson standpoint, but from an equipment standpoint, it's really important to get on a launch monitor, understand your club head speed, understand your launch angle and your spin rate, and just write them down.
Speaker B:And then you, you know, every six months, check it out and see where you are.
Speaker B:It's, it's like A, it's like your doctor's checkup.
Speaker B:And in doing so, one of the hardest things in golf for any level of golfers is self analysis.
Speaker B:You know, when things are going wrong in your swing, it's so hard to correct because you don't have a 3D picture of yourself to see what you're doing.
Speaker B:A launch monitor is a version of that that you can do checkups along the way, not only for your swing, but also for your equipment as well.
Speaker A:So, Gene, when you've got.
Speaker A:Oh, man, there's a ton of them between golf publications.
Speaker A:Not too many of them are still on paper, but there's a lot of golf publications out there.
Speaker A:And then you've got golf podcasts and you've got this and that.
Speaker A:Not going to single out any, any one particular, but what is kind of to, to me is kind of makes me raise my left eyebrow, which I don't do very often goes, they say, we tested these balls and we tested these balls this.
Speaker A:And then, then the, the other publication says, we tested these balls and the tests come out, the results, if you will, and the grading where they give them, you know, 1 through 5, A through D, whatever.
Speaker A:A lot of them are different.
Speaker A:They're not, you know, diametrically different.
Speaker A:They're not.
Speaker A:Somebody doesn't give this ball an A and then the next one guy gives it an F. But they're, they're different in the fact that they say, well, this one was off balance and the symmetry wasn't right, or what, you know, whatever their parameters are, how you test golf balls, and you're kind of the reigning authority on this.
Speaker A:But how did, how one, how does that affect the consumer who particularly maybe likes a brand of golf ball?
Speaker A:And all of a sudden one of the publications and said, no, it's just an average golf ball.
Speaker A:It's not very good.
Speaker A:And then the other publication is saying, no, they're pretty good.
Speaker A:We rate them as gold, silver, platinum, whatever.
Speaker A:I mean, how, how can people trust that?
Speaker B:Really good question.
Speaker B:There's a lot of noise in the space.
Speaker B:A lot of noise in the space.
Speaker B:And so social media has done a couple of things for golf.
Speaker B:Social media.
Speaker B:I will ever forever be thankful for social media because it put this game on steroids with COVID and nobody saw that coming and nobody saw golf becoming hip again amongst the young.
Speaker B:And so I will be forever thankful to social media for what they've done.
Speaker B:That being said, the thing to remember when you look at information is there are different levels of qualification.
Speaker B:And if someone is A personality on social media, an entertainer.
Speaker B:Just keep that in mind when they, when they rate.
Speaker B:Also keep in mind the more hyperbolic someone is in their, in their approach.
Speaker B:And if, if the one thing I will say about golf equipment in my time in the business is the quality is improved dramatically.
Speaker B:There's a few products that are a little less on quality and price is definitely a factor.
Speaker B:But most manufacturers make really good stuff.
Speaker B:It's just how does it fit specific game.
Speaker B:And if anybody is trashing a product really badly, I, I would question them because sometimes they have different motives than that are apparent in what they're saying.
Speaker B:But it's, it's more, it's, it's more data driven.
Speaker B:I would look at and if you really want to get in the weeds and unfortunately most people don't is find out what the test conditions are.
Speaker B:Like I said, you know, we talked about in the, in the main show about the bell curve, you know, are they tested on one side of the bell curve or another?
Speaker B:You know, I just saw some test results from a, another media outlet and they were testing it like 120 miles an hour and you know, and they were proclaiming these balls the longest balls.
Speaker B:And I mean you're talking about less than 1% of amateurs swing at 120 miles an hour.
Speaker B:So once again it's kind of like, you know, I can test at 120 miles an hour.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Because it's not relevant to the 95 mile an hour players.
Speaker B:So ultimately it's how they test.
Speaker B:And then a lot of times they have different, like you said, methodologies where it's not just as simple as just the data.
Speaker B:Then they grade the data according to their own secret, secret sauce.
Speaker B:And I just, I just believe, and what I try to focus on with Golf Digest is that we're as transparent as possible.
Speaker B:That's and, and a lot.
Speaker B:And also as non judgmental as pros as possible.
Speaker B:Just, just putting the data out there and letting other golfers make their own conclusions from it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just find it very well, interesting is I guess a good way to put it because like you said, I don't know the parameters and the conditions of the tests.
Speaker A:You know, I don't know if they're doing golf balls, if they have a robot like yours, if they have some other device that they're testing it on, if they're just taking a hacksaw and cutting the ball in half and saying look, looky here, you know, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker A:And A lot of times they don't that.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I'm always skeptical that.
Speaker A:And plus, if I find a golf ball that I like and.
Speaker A:And there's a couple that I like to play, I stick with them.
Speaker A:I'm not opposed to trying new golf balls, but, you know, mine's.
Speaker A:I'm old school, kind of tried and true, you know, like that.
Speaker A:So if you like it, if it's.
Speaker B:Not broke, don't fix it.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Last time you were on, I don't think we did a couple of these questions, and so I' I'll take it easy on you today.
Speaker A:All right, first of all, did I ask you what your favorite color lifesaver was?
Speaker B:God, I haven't had a lifesaver in 20 years.
Speaker B:But I remember I used to like the rainbow ones.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:See, now when you're going through the airport to Scotland this week, then you can.
Speaker A:They'll.
Speaker A:They'll have lifesavers there.
Speaker B:All right, I'll check that out.
Speaker A:But buy them on this side of the pond, not that side of the pond.
Speaker A:They're made different.
Speaker A:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:What's a song that you want to hear on the radio when you start your car in the morning?
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:You know, it's really interesting that you asked that.
Speaker B:I. I'm not a sentimentalist when it comes to music, and new music is my thing.
Speaker B:I go to Coachella with my kids.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm 60, and I take my kids to Coachella still.
Speaker B:I love new music.
Speaker B:And so I have this thing on Spotify called Dayl, and it always plays something brand new for me.
Speaker B:And I love to start my day kind of being exposed to new music and getting.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I don't have any specific song.
Speaker B:It's more like surprise me.
Speaker B:And let's.
Speaker B:Let's start our day with an exploration musically.
Speaker A:I'll tell you my surprise in music this year.
Speaker A:Of course, I was.
Speaker A:When I started in radio, I was a morning DJ in la.
Speaker A:We had our daughter's wedding reception here in June.
Speaker A:She'd gotten married earlier.
Speaker A:Then they wanted an outside one, so they waited till June, and we had a big party and 120 of our closest friends, I guess, whatever.
Speaker A:But in listening to the music, their music that they were dancing to and stuff, versus I thought I knew music.
Speaker A:I evidently need to go back to school and.
Speaker A:And check some of this out, because it was.
Speaker A:I'll just put it this way.
Speaker A:It was very interesting.
Speaker A:And a couple of the 65 and overcrowd found it a little provocative.
Speaker A:I'll just leave it, I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker B:Well, you know, you know what they said about Elvis back in the days, that's, that's, that's just, that's part of the over 65 crowd.
Speaker B:It's always, always thinking.
Speaker B:It's the demise of youth and it's, it always comes through music.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:In 10 years, another cycle right there.
Speaker A:Speaking of technology, is there a place, Gene, in your thoughts for indoor events like TGL to be considered real golf?
Speaker A:I mean, we're seeing it with like you, we're talking simulators.
Speaker A:We've got, in our area, we've got a ton of indoors places.
Speaker A:Now some of them are a bar and you can have some food and you can, they've got leagues and all that because we get, you know, three months of really inclement weather up here.
Speaker A:But in, in something like tgl, you know, their technology is, especially on that putting green is pretty fascinating to me.
Speaker A:But I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker B:So from a simulator standpoint, simulator golf has never been in a better position in my entire career.
Speaker B:And what I mean by that is when you hit a shot in a simulator with a good simulator, it will fly like it does on a golf course.
Speaker B:Now granted, you're hitting off of astroturf, you're not hitting off grass, and you know you're not hitting off of uneven lies.
Speaker B:But it has improved so dramatically that if you hit your eight iron 150 yards and you're in a simulator, it will go 150 yards.
Speaker B:The, the capture is amazing.
Speaker B:So not only for places, you know, like the Northwest that have bad weather, but also if you don't have four hours, but you want to get together with your buddies and play pebble in an hour and a half and have a few beers, you can go to a simulator.
Speaker B:So there's social aspects, there's playing aspects, and then there's also a home aspect where man caves are popping up.
Speaker B:And instead of Netflix and chill, once you put the kids down, you go and you know, you play Pinehurst.
Speaker B:And so, so simulator golf is here.
Speaker B:It's only going to grow now in relation to tgl, I actually sold a robot to TGL and I got a chance to go on their, their soundstage that they were developing the technology.
Speaker B:It was really cool.
Speaker B:And to be in there, it is amazing.
Speaker B:I don't know what their long term success is.
Speaker B:And I'll tell you why.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker B:Unfortunate, but it's just a reality.
Speaker B:Professional golfers are kind of boring.
Speaker B:They're not the most interesting individuals, and you need something other than the tech and other than the shots, and you need that interaction.
Speaker B:And the problem with it that I heard is they can't be miked to the same sound system, so the audience can't hear what they're saying because of the reverb factor.
Speaker B:You can only hear it on the.
Speaker B:On the broadcast, but the audience can't hear it.
Speaker B:And ultimately, you need personalities.
Speaker B:And if you have person, there's a reason that Inside the NBA does so well, because, you know, you've got Charles Barkley and Shaquille o', Neal, and everybody is always entertained.
Speaker B:They're entertaining, human.
Speaker B:I would rather see those two play on TGL or comedians play on TGL than tour players, because you need to make it entertaining and it's interesting.
Speaker B:Kind of back to the social media now you have all these entertainers from Kevin Hart to LeBron James.
Speaker B:Everybody's developing YouTube channels now around golf entertainment.
Speaker B:TVL is kind of a little bit pregnant.
Speaker B:It's like, you've got really good golfers, really good tech.
Speaker B:She don't have that entertainment factor.
Speaker B:And I think that's the X factor.
Speaker B:That would really bring it into the next level.
Speaker A:Oh, I think you're right.
Speaker A:One last question here, Gene.
Speaker A:If I gave you a box with everything that you've lost in your life, physical, metaphysical, whatever, what would be the first thing you would reach for?
Speaker B:My mid-20s.
Speaker B:In my mid-20s, I was starting my business, and I would go back and tell myself to believe in myself more and to relax a little bit more and not to put as much pressure as I did on myself.
Speaker B:That and.
Speaker B:And to understand kind of the beauty of life.
Speaker B:When you're in your 20s, everything is angst, driven and.
Speaker B:And existential.
Speaker B:And I had a lot of fun in my 20s, but I also did not stop and smell the roses as much as I wanted to or should have.
Speaker B:And that's what I would go back.
Speaker B:It's been a great life, and I've grown from that period.
Speaker B:But if I could do it over again, I'd do that.
Speaker B:And I'd also seek out more mentors.
Speaker B:I lone wolfed a lot of stuff, and I found as I've aged that seeking out mentors, getting assistance, it's not a sign of weakness.
Speaker B:And it also can enable you to stand on the shoulders of giants and do much greater things.
Speaker A:I think that's great advice, because my life was somewhat parallel I had a lot of great ideas and I got a lot of great things started, but I didn't always know the best way to execute it, you know, and that's where mentors would have come in handy in my world, that that final stage execution of whether it's going to work okay or it's going to work really well.
Speaker A:And I think sometimes we overlook those things, you know.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Keeps you from going down a lot of blind alleys, too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:As they say, old age and treachery will outdo you and enthusiasm every time.
Speaker A:So, Gene Parente from Golf Labs, thank you, my friend.
Speaker A:It's great to see you again.
Speaker B:Great to see you as well.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me on.
Speaker A:You bet.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week with another after hours.
Speaker A:Until then, like we say all the time, go out, play some golf.
Speaker A:Follow us on the social media stuff too.
Speaker A:That's kind of fun.
Speaker A:But go out, play some golf, have some fun.
Speaker A:Most of all, be kind.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
