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032.7 The Big Leagues_ Panel Discussion On Treating Professional Athletes
Episode 3221st May 2018 • Qiological Podcast • Michael Max
00:00:00 00:46:40

Shownotes

Our panel of experienced practitioners discuss the ways they've broken into treating professional athletes, and answer the audience's questions on gearing up to help the pros. 

Transcripts

michael Max:

Remember that round table presentation I've been

michael Max:

talking to you guys about, or here it is, unfortunately though, the

michael Max:

sound file that I thought I would.

michael Max:

I didn't get recorded.

michael Max:

So we managed to pull some sound out of an iPad video, but, you know, iPad,

michael Max:

video microphone, big room, sorry, folks.

michael Max:

This is not the greatest audio that we've had on qiological and

michael Max:

I really apologize about that.

michael Max:

And in the future, hopefully we will not have these kinds of snack

michael Max:

foods with the recording equipment, but it's the best I can do.

michael Max:

So give it a listen and I hope you find it.

michael Max:

Okay.

michael Max:

The day, we got just an hour here for kinda tastic question,

michael Max:

answer opportunity with our panel.

michael Max:

I'm Michael Maxim, the host of a qiological podcast.

michael Max:

I've had a chance to meet some of you and, uh, hopefully I'll get a chance to talk

michael Max:

to some others before this is all over and delighted to be here, to take flavor of

michael Max:

the podcast out to our larger community.

michael Max:

Really delighted to have our luminaries here with us today.

michael Max:

We, first of all, got on the godfather of sports acupuncture.

michael Max:

Hillary pats, her.

michael Max:

She was a member of the us ski team for.

michael Max:

Acupuncture save your bacon after she overtrained athletes overtrain,

michael Max:

and imagining that she's here with her, she's also the acupuncturist

michael Max:

for the Minnesota Vikings and some other pro athletes as well.

michael Max:

So really looking for that,

michael Max:

Matt Callison, you know, this cat, I don't think you need

michael Max:

an introduction at this point.

michael Max:

The famous Mr.

michael Max:

Chad bonds, he runs this little thing called the acupuncture sports Alliance.

michael Max:

amazing that.

michael Max:

So we've got some questions on Facebook and we're going to run through a few

michael Max:

of these, and then we can take some questions from the audience as well.

michael Max:

So, uh, Oh, one last thing.

michael Max:

That's right.

michael Max:

Um, if, if all of you on our panel, we can start with the godfather over here.

Whitfield Reeves:

Didn't the godfather,

michael Max:

the godfather of sports acupuncture.

michael Max:

It's a whole different story.

michael Max:

So we should make her just take them off.

michael Max:

And tell us, uh, what sports world we found your way into, what aspects of

michael Max:

the sports world you found yourself into and treating, and just the

michael Max:

elevator version of how you got yourself there for what happened.

michael Max:

What were the circumstances?

Whitfield Reeves:

Overwhelmingly aerobic distance endurance

Whitfield Reeves:

athletes is how I got my start.

Whitfield Reeves:

Runners, distance runners, marathoners triathletes.

Whitfield Reeves:

Um, cyclists.

Whitfield Reeves:

I'm not sure what elevators over can answer that question, but the synopsis

Whitfield Reeves:

of what I would say is that the way to, to transition yourself into

Whitfield Reeves:

the athletic world or specifically the professional athlete athletic

Whitfield Reeves:

world is to do really good pre.

Hillary Patts:

So, yeah, I I'm an endurance athlete, a

Hillary Patts:

us cross country ski team.

Hillary Patts:

I don't look much like an Alzheimer's here.

Hillary Patts:

And as I was that I over-trained.

Hillary Patts:

And so I started to work on athletes.

Hillary Patts:

I've also done the Boston marathon and they come to iron man, so definitely

Hillary Patts:

have done a lot of endurance stuff.

Hillary Patts:

So it's sort of odd that.

Hillary Patts:

With, you know, an NFL team, NHL, guys baseball.

Hillary Patts:

Um, but I think one of the major things for me is my background.

Hillary Patts:

Yeah.

Hillary Patts:

It really gives the guys, um, Confidence that I understand what

Hillary Patts:

they're going through and what their body feels like and, you know, wanting

Hillary Patts:

to stay in the field, so to speak.

Hillary Patts:

Um, and just like what said, you have to be really good at what you

Hillary Patts:

do and a little bit, a lot of being at the right place at the right time.

Hillary Patts:

Um, you know, to meet the people that could, you know, help.

Hillary Patts:

Project and catapult

Matt Callison:

your career, um, background with athletic training and

Matt Callison:

physical education as it was a stark.

Matt Callison:

And then as far as the acupuncture piece is always been interested

Matt Callison:

in musculoskeletal treatment.

Matt Callison:

And then just like what would said, the sense that we've got

Matt Callison:

once you treat one professional athlete and they love what you do.

Matt Callison:

And they're going to tell them all of their partners.

Matt Callison:

And then pretty soon you have a whole practice of all of these professional

Matt Callison:

happens, because what they're getting is so different than what they're

Matt Callison:

getting in their own training.

Matt Callison:

And from my experience, cause I used to treat the Minnesota Vikings.

Matt Callison:

I flew out there for three years in a row.

Matt Callison:

The players are the ones that brought me in the training staff,

Matt Callison:

wanting nothing to do with me, even though I tried to contact him.

Matt Callison:

This was a while ago that changed.

Matt Callison:

It was the players, the players that really responded to the, into a hotel,

Matt Callison:

the big, huge screen, the doors would open at 7:00 AM and close at 8:00 PM.

Matt Callison:

They would just come in and it was something that I wanted to be

Matt Callison:

able to speak with the trainers.

Matt Callison:

But one of my findings was when I was doing today, they really, at

Matt Callison:

that time, didn't really want much to do with me, for the players.

Matt Callison:

Really enjoyed it.

Matt Callison:

So the same thing can happen in your own private practice.

Matt Callison:

Just treat the players.

Matt Callison:

Do you create a chart?

Matt Callison:

And they're going to tell their friends.

Audience:

Yeah.

Audience:

So I think all the stories have the same base to them, this work card

Audience:

prep, so that when this opportunity arises, you take advantage of.

Audience:

So I also think that making connections with other acupunctures

Audience:

is helpful to do this because

Audience:

one of my big breaks into the athletic world, which is.

Audience:

Let's say Olympic level track athletes is the big thing that I'm treating

Audience:

currently at the highest, you know, the highest level athletes and some NFL guys.

Audience:

One of them, the truck athletes came from this track athlete called

Audience:

just like the first acupuncturist that comes up on Google.

Audience:

If you Google Philadelphia and acupuncture call that person.

Audience:

And that person was like, ask them what was going on.

Audience:

She told him what was going on.

Audience:

And he said, oh, you should go see

michael Max:

check.

michael Max:

So,

Audience:

because I had a connection with this other acupuncturist is

Audience:

how I got into this Olympic athlete.

Audience:

Um, so get out there in your community and talk to people and make connections,

Audience:

refer, refer patients, other countries.

Audience:

I refer, you know, internal medicine stuff to other acupuncturists all the time.

Audience:

So, but it's not helping you go this network of people that

Audience:

allow that connection to happen.

Audience:

Since I send people with them, they were willing to send me back to me.

Audience:

And then once I got that, after you treated that athlete and you know,

Audience:

same story, That love what happens.

Audience:

And then a bunch of athletes, friends with actually the next

Audience:

thing was the athletes coach.

Audience:

I treated offense coach, and then it exploded from there.

Audience:

Now the ball is really rolling.

Audience:

So I think the story is similar for all of us and same with Kai

Audience:

yesterday and everybody I've ever interviewed on my podcast,

michael Max:

that word of mouth and getting your reputation

michael Max:

in the community really

Whitfield Reeves:

seems to do good.

Audience:

Yeah, elections, I think are important.

Audience:

Probably all of us have somebody who connected us with somebody

Audience:

and that's how it exploded.

michael Max:

Let me get me through these Facebook questions in a moment, but I

michael Max:

just want to follow up with something that you guys have been saying in treating the

michael Max:

players with the players that have really started talking among other players.

michael Max:

Now, I think we know as apple country.

michael Max:

Our practice has grown by word of mouth all the time.

michael Max:

Right.

michael Max:

And whether it's bring your family members or friends or, or whatever,

michael Max:

I'm wondering if maybe in your guys' experience that, that there's like

michael Max:

more of a buzz that happens within a sports team, like a family or

michael Max:

friend at work or non-professionals.

michael Max:

Is there something different about what professionals communicate with

michael Max:

each other that, that make this a particularly important aspect

Matt Callison:

of building.

Matt Callison:

And there was a good comradery in sports team to team.

Matt Callison:

And when one person sees the ages outside the best cutting edge, they want everybody

Matt Callison:

on that team to be able to go and see this person because they want win.

Matt Callison:

And so.

Matt Callison:

When you can get into that energy, that's the camaraderie.

Matt Callison:

That's the big thing is it's.

Matt Callison:

I think it's different than the family network, because most family statistics

Matt Callison:

with the sports teams though.

Matt Callison:

I mean, these people are brothers or sisters, or we try to invest

Matt Callison:

when for a common purpose.

Hillary Patts:

For me is as well with the, with the Vikings is, um, you

Hillary Patts:

know, families don't spend a lot of time together usually, but they spend

Hillary Patts:

a lot of time in their locker room.

Hillary Patts:

And so when we first started with them, You know, a training camp asking where

Hillary Patts:

they heard about me, wondering if they had been referred to me by the trainer or not.

Hillary Patts:

And they said, oh yeah, the guys in the locker room were talking about you.

Hillary Patts:

So they just overhear it or they'll say, oh my God, he got a hammy thing.

Hillary Patts:

And they're like, oh, you should go see blah, blah, blah.

Hillary Patts:

So.

Hillary Patts:

I think, like Matt said, there's just a lot more communication.

Hillary Patts:

They're not as dysfunctional.

Hillary Patts:

Um, they want to win really badly, but they also are in a room together

Hillary Patts:

a lot of the day, and that would be bad for a lot of families.

Hillary Patts:

Um, so, so yeah, kind of just that, that bond that they have is very different.

Hillary Patts:

You get one person

Audience:

and now everybody involved with these track athletes

Audience:

is they don't go anywhere else.

Audience:

They're just like on the first one.

Audience:

Pathway to go through because one

Audience:

Whitfield Reeves: person, you know, so they

Audience:

they're very tight on that group.

Audience:

That's what teams are.

Audience:

So.

Whitfield Reeves:

My experience is almost the opposite such as

Whitfield Reeves:

the, um, I started with runners and triathletes, and these were

Whitfield Reeves:

individual competitive athletes who often were competing against

Whitfield Reeves:

themselves, you know, for a person best.

Whitfield Reeves:

No, occasionally you'd be fortunate enough to get someone who could win

Whitfield Reeves:

a race, you know, an entire race, but they found something that worked.

Whitfield Reeves:

They did not often want their training partners to get this information because

Whitfield Reeves:

they would no longer have this edge.

Whitfield Reeves:

So, so it wasn't always such a, the camaraderie thing was not.

Whitfield Reeves:

In my experience in the early years.

Whitfield Reeves:

Anyway, um, when I started, uh, later as triathletes were teams and running

Whitfield Reeves:

teams were happening rather than just individuals running, um, then that

Whitfield Reeves:

camaraderie things started to happen.

Whitfield Reeves:

But I think that, uh, the most important thing, um, that underlies

Whitfield Reeves:

it all is communication is sort of what everyone is saying.

Whitfield Reeves:

People were talking, but you have to know the language.

Whitfield Reeves:

So have a runner comes in and says that.

Whitfield Reeves:

Uh, they ran native splits on this, uh, on this marathon.

Whitfield Reeves:

And they noticed that their, their resting pulse rate has been on, you know, several

Whitfield Reeves:

beats higher or some other jargon around, uh, around how their training is going.

Whitfield Reeves:

You need to know that you need to know what that means.

Whitfield Reeves:

You don't know what that means.

Whitfield Reeves:

You go home that night and you read until, you know what that means

Whitfield Reeves:

because these athletes are not better.

Whitfield Reeves:

Hey, she's to you, if you know the no negative splits or the increased

Whitfield Reeves:

resting heart rate or whatever the parameter that they are talking about.

Whitfield Reeves:

So you've got to know what their life is like.

Whitfield Reeves:

So that I think is very important.

Whitfield Reeves:

And in an interview, when you can say, well, you know, so, so

Whitfield Reeves:

what is your resting pulse rate?

Whitfield Reeves:

Your.

Whitfield Reeves:

When you're doing a normal training run, you know, how close to maximum

Whitfield Reeves:

heart rate or 80% of the maximum heart rate is your run, you know?

Whitfield Reeves:

And, and when you can speak with some sort of clarity like that,

Whitfield Reeves:

they know you understand who they are and what they're doing.

Whitfield Reeves:

Um, and so if it's, if it's within the context of training,

Whitfield Reeves:

That language is important.

Whitfield Reeves:

If it's in the context of man, I think it's really important to kind of

Whitfield Reeves:

go, oh, this is where it hurts, huh.

Whitfield Reeves:

And really get that Asher point and have them kind of go.

Whitfield Reeves:

Has ever found this point, quite like this, you really

Whitfield Reeves:

know where the problem is.

Whitfield Reeves:

And we follow that up with a picture with an illustration of

Whitfield Reeves:

the anatomy and say, this is the problem, and this is how we fix it.

Whitfield Reeves:

So that now you're communicating anatomically about the

Whitfield Reeves:

treatment rather than.

Whitfield Reeves:

Um, within the context of lifestyle training, but that knowledge

Whitfield Reeves:

base, that language is essential.

Whitfield Reeves:

You can't go in there with demons.

Whitfield Reeves:

And when did he would call them energy reversing going up and down and out or

Whitfield Reeves:

something, you know, just, you know, it's not going to work, you know,

Whitfield Reeves:

uh, in terms of bringing about his sense of confidence for most of that.

michael Max:

Yeah, it's interesting.

michael Max:

How a team sport person, individual sport will take a

michael Max:

really, really different approach.

michael Max:

Got another sport.

michael Max:

I'm going to take a question from Facebook here.

michael Max:

Do you recommend focusing on increasing athletic performance or preparation

michael Max:

or recover as a practitioner developing a practice with that

Audience:

is

Whitfield Reeves:

the way I look

Audience:

mostly is keeping them on the practice field or keeping them

Audience:

on the track or what I'm saying.

Audience:

The little bits you can get thinking about performance.

Audience:

Like some sort of, you know, is, is great, but the moment you can

Audience:

get from the train throughout the year is the most valuable piece.

Audience:

If they can never miss a workout because you did your job and kept them out there.

Audience:

That's the greatest thing that you can do for them is to

Audience:

keep them out there training.

Audience:

Um, so that's, that's my place is keeping them on.

Audience:

You know, out there practicing is way more to meet the other stuff.

Audience:

Those two, the performance and the recovery recovery get on their path

Audience:

quicker, maybe, but I'm talking about the, keeping them out of

Audience:

injuries is the most lumpectomy.

Matt Callison:

It's kind of wear two different hats and my mind.

Matt Callison:

And I totally agree with what Chad's talking about is consistency.

Matt Callison:

When somebody is coming in with aches and pains, because of training so much, to

Matt Callison:

make sure that the muscles are pulling the way that she blood is coming through

Matt Callison:

the area, they're partially correct.

Matt Callison:

They are able to train as consistently as possible, rehabbing that person

Matt Callison:

to keep them on the field or whatever support that our last one hat.

Matt Callison:

Now as they actually progressing, they're becoming more pain free and

Matt Callison:

you can start out by looking into more sports performance because the

Matt Callison:

treatment for a human performance or sports performance is actually a

Matt Callison:

lot less than it is in rehabbing.

Matt Callison:

An injury.

Matt Callison:

As you're reviewing the scores, performance protocol events, and it

Matt Callison:

only takes like 10 minutes to do, right.

Matt Callison:

And that's, you're not addressing an injury, just like two different hats.

Matt Callison:

We're going for rehab and balancing versus enhancement of

Matt Callison:

cheap blood moving by perfectly

Whitfield Reeves:

good event.

Matt Callison:

Yeah.

Matt Callison:

I mean,

Hillary Patts:

I guess it would also depend on where your heart is.

Hillary Patts:

Like this is coming from a practitioner asking, you know, where they should

Hillary Patts:

focus their practice to potentially draw athletes in as an athlete myself.

Hillary Patts:

You know, I don't know if you're asking recovery from an injury or just your, you

Hillary Patts:

know, your one day off, but with the EOC team and stuff, like we would be training

Hillary Patts:

two to three times a day, our day off with gold, um, and almost more important

Hillary Patts:

than any of the intervals that we do.

Hillary Patts:

Was that rebuilding your system.

Hillary Patts:

So in that way, recovering is really important so that you can get back out

Hillary Patts:

there and train, you know, as zillion times again, but where are you getting?

Hillary Patts:

Another day off?

Hillary Patts:

The performance aspect is maybe going to be more important

Hillary Patts:

and more exciting to certain practitioners and a certain athletes.

Hillary Patts:

So people are going to find you for what they want.

Hillary Patts:

Um, you know, pregame, I sometimes don't see anybody, but I see 'em on Tuesday.

Hillary Patts:

And I seen him Tuesday, religiously, you know, that's their buzzer

Hillary Patts:

recovery, but I would never see them on Friday, Friday before games.

Hillary Patts:

So they kind of find you as well.

Hillary Patts:

And I sort of let that flow kind of let the chief low and let them figure it out.

Hillary Patts:

A little bit.

Hillary Patts:

So I guess I'm a little wishy-washy on that one, but it kind of depends on what

Hillary Patts:

you attract and then what they're looking

Whitfield Reeves:

for, I really agree with most of what's being said, but

Whitfield Reeves:

I'll comment on this tomorrow afternoon.

Whitfield Reeves:

I think this when I'm supposed to speak on the second,

Whitfield Reeves:

but, but, but by and large of all the studies on athletic performance,

Whitfield Reeves:

The two legal things that seem to stand out or that training, proper

Whitfield Reeves:

training enhances athletic performance and coffee and everything else

Whitfield Reeves:

is a hit the myths, you know, so

michael Max:

Facebook and . The advantages and disadvantages of

michael Max:

treating athletes at their training facilities and order events, as opposed

michael Max:

to getting it over, to come to your clinic, like your other pictures

Whitfield Reeves:

do whatever is appropriate and everything.

Hillary Patts:

For me, it's really different being at the Vikings

Hillary Patts:

facility versus, um, Actually I'm joining a collaboration of

Hillary Patts:

practitioners, twin cities, orthopedics, and about a week and a half.

Hillary Patts:

So I'll be across the practice, deal from them, which will be really nice.

Hillary Patts:

They can walk or ride their bike or a golf cart or whatever.

Hillary Patts:

So it's going to be a different answer.

Hillary Patts:

But, um, at my studio, my private practice, I still treat

Hillary Patts:

them very differently than.

Hillary Patts:

Treats, um, some other people that come in, I spend more time with them do a lot

Hillary Patts:

more manual, um, with them just because of they're hitting a brick wall, you know,

Hillary Patts:

for a living, um, so right wrong, right.

Hillary Patts:

Or otherwise, um, maybe I should be treating every patient with that

Hillary Patts:

much detail, but I do, I am able to.

Hillary Patts:

Give them more body sugar, you know, at my private practice

Hillary Patts:

than I am on 45 minutes at the,

Matt Callison:

I only from my own, my own experience that it's properly.

Matt Callison:

There's different situations that can occur when I'm treating in a facility.

Matt Callison:

Sometimes you're going to be watched by other people of exactly what you're doing.

Matt Callison:

Um,

Matt Callison:

Um, like you're saying and have limited time per patient.

Matt Callison:

Um, it's often in a train, but not in a single road, so it's not always,

Matt Callison:

but you're going to be amongst a lot of people watching and you may not

Matt Callison:

actually be able to do the assessment.

Matt Callison:

You want to do because somebody else wants to have a team athletic trainer.

Matt Callison:

So you're a little bit handicapped, what you can do

Matt Callison:

because you're the acupuncturist.

Matt Callison:

And all that you're supposed to do is put the needles and nothing else.

Matt Callison:

Whereas in your clinic behind closed doors, every time that you want to do.

Audience:

Yeah track that these don't really have facilities.

Audience:

Um, but yeah, the NFL guys have all treated all coming in.

Audience:

And so I don't really know

Matt Callison:

anything

michael Max:

come to you so you can speak into

michael Max:

the.

michael Max:

In many parts of

Matt Callison:

practice, we see the average migraine come in, or our

Matt Callison:

spring need working with professional

Whitfield Reeves:

athletes.

Whitfield Reeves:

I'm sure you see that, but even more than

Matt Callison:

somebody who's been trained in extreme, extreme

Matt Callison:

both physically and mentally.

Matt Callison:

And I wonder if that drives you deeper and harder, understand Chinese medicine.

Matt Callison:

And what was your biggest, aha.

Matt Callison:

This is something interesting about Chinese medicine that.

Matt Callison:

Less I had to work with these kinds of professionals.

Whitfield Reeves:

I would say the most important, uh, for me is that if you

Whitfield Reeves:

look at the cause of disease, as in Dodges, the emotions, um, when he calls.

Whitfield Reeves:

Or other, the causes of disease include blood stagnation, flan,

Whitfield Reeves:

trauma, et cetera, et cetera.

Whitfield Reeves:

The really the viewpoint is that this is other crosses.

Whitfield Reeves:

He was trying to figure out the relationship with their mother or trying

Whitfield Reeves:

to look at some organ dysfunction.

Whitfield Reeves:

It's just not really nearly as expeditious extinction.

Whitfield Reeves:

Understanding that they're pushing themselves in.

Whitfield Reeves:

That's a cause of disease.

Whitfield Reeves:

That is overtrading lifestyle.

Whitfield Reeves:

However, you want to look at this, I'm going to talk about this some tomorrow

Whitfield Reeves:

again, but it's really allowing yourself to go into this other causes of disease

Whitfield Reeves:

and, and find a way to work with that.

Whitfield Reeves:

Thereby abandoning.

Whitfield Reeves:

So many of the other things that we think we seem to think are important.

Whitfield Reeves:

It's not improved gene load your emotions and kind of go here.

Whitfield Reeves:

Now.

Whitfield Reeves:

This is not the way to get there.

Whitfield Reeves:

And that was hard for me because I had, I really thought this medicine

Whitfield Reeves:

was, was really wouldn't have.

Whitfield Reeves:

Assan food dysfunction, a genuine dysfunction and emotional piece

Whitfield Reeves:

that all fit together and it would correspond exactly to the injury

Whitfield Reeves:

and it didn't work out that way.

Whitfield Reeves:

So the how hard was to let go of this stuff.

Whitfield Reeves:

Look at trauma, for instance, over training as the cause of

Whitfield Reeves:

this, it kind of frees you up to just approach it in a really.

Whitfield Reeves:

So relatively, uh, unintelligence or a way, you know, not very

Whitfield Reeves:

pristine at all, but it works.

Hillary Patts:

I was trying to quickly come up with something in my head, um,

Hillary Patts:

you know, being the athletes and then over-training training for the Olympics

Hillary Patts:

and basically having my heart ripped out.

Hillary Patts:

And I need to figure out who I was without being Hilary of the skier.

Hillary Patts:

Um, you know, I luckily found acupuncture, but.

Hillary Patts:

That's a little bit of my aha as well as is just that experience that I had.

Hillary Patts:

Um, when I graduated from my masters, I wanted, I thought facial

Hillary Patts:

acupuncture sounded really great and you know, some nice massage and stuff.

Hillary Patts:

I wanted nothing to do with athletes because I had been so beaten up and

Hillary Patts:

slowly starting to get back into it through different, um, continuing

Hillary Patts:

educations, different modalities.

Hillary Patts:

You know, going to all the PT conferences in Minnesota and all of that.

Hillary Patts:

So those were, I had little aha moments of going, oh wait,

Hillary Patts:

no, this is like, this is me.

Hillary Patts:

I really tried to ignore it.

Hillary Patts:

This is me.

Hillary Patts:

I CA I came back home.

Hillary Patts:

I'm really glad though, you know, for information to TMI, I did step away.

Hillary Patts:

Cause when I came back, it was real and it wasn't just something

Hillary Patts:

that I did because it was easy.

Hillary Patts:

It was something I did because it's like what I'm

Matt Callison:

supposed to do.

Matt Callison:

The treatments are easier, but she implied us so clean with professional

Matt Callison:

athletes, they are driven.

Matt Callison:

They're ShaoYin is usually very straight.

Matt Callison:

They have a focus they're being treated by numerous people.

Matt Callison:

And because there she is so clean, less kneels, less effort.

Matt Callison:

The dive is usually really good.

Matt Callison:

So there's less things to be able to focus on compared to the average.

Matt Callison:

It's actually, my mind is easier.

Matt Callison:

That

Audience:

took my answer.

Audience:

these people come in and their bodies are so amazing.

Audience:

It's like I could think about during the acupuncture.

Audience:

They would be perfectly viable the next day, the tractor it's amazing.

Audience:

Sometimes the things they hobble in with them are racing the next weekend.

Audience:

It's amazing how one of the things that's forced me to do is to be really

Audience:

good at translating the concepts of acupuncture into the Western medical

Audience:

or just regular language, even enough to explain it to people who are not

Audience:

necessarily even Western, medically trained, just people who are.

Audience:

Yeah, they're athletes.

Audience:

They, they understand their muscles, but athletes don't always know

Audience:

much about the training of doing.

Audience:

They're just, they show up and our coaches run them and they're like, okay.

Audience:

And then they're done and they go home and eat and sleep and recover.

Audience:

Go back again.

Audience:

So you gotta be able to explain something to them in a way

Audience:

that they do understand that.

Audience:

And I think that's been a super valuable tool to me.

Matt Callison:

If you'd like to

Hillary Patts:

comment about or critique of Chan guns.

Hillary Patts:

I can't remember school myofascial something, but, uh,

Matt Callison:

channels influential in my development.

Matt Callison:

And I think he's intellectual even where acupuncture has gone.

Matt Callison:

He's not an advocate of traditional Chinese medicine.

Matt Callison:

It's been a bad way, but his concepts of looking at motor point

Matt Callison:

tenderness as a diagnostic factor for spondylosis is monumental.

Matt Callison:

So she hung the gun was definitely a big figure in the, um, the evolution

Matt Callison:

I would say of sports acupuncture.

Matt Callison:

He did good work

Whitfield Reeves:

to give you that.

Whitfield Reeves:

I would agree very much.

Whitfield Reeves:

And you know, he set the tone along with Janet Trevell of anatomical thinking in

Whitfield Reeves:

a, an anatomical basis for acupuncture, even though, as Matt said, wasn't

Whitfield Reeves:

necessarily an advocate , you know, very influential, but you can tell.

Whitfield Reeves:

How important in brilliant.

Whitfield Reeves:

He was because his students are just really, so many of the students in

Whitfield Reeves:

Canada are just very, very precise.

Whitfield Reeves:

Very, very fine.

Whitfield Reeves:

And so he's left the lineage and, you know, I don't know all, I

Whitfield Reeves:

don't know all of them personally.

Whitfield Reeves:

Well, you know, but great respect for Rick for channel.

michael Max:

How to work with local professional

Whitfield Reeves:

tools,

Audience:

persistence, find somebody to contact them and a contact number and

Audience:

then find them whatever you start off with, you know, maybe a little smaller,

Audience:

you know, a team, you know, I'm not gonna go home and just call the Eagles.

Audience:

I would maybe start off with the arena league football team of soul,

Audience:

instead of something like that.

Whitfield Reeves:

Are harder to

Audience:

crack into the top than it is to work your way up a little bit.

Audience:

I think

michael Max:

personal views in the current or future state sports acupuncture.

Matt Callison:

there's so much to that.

Whitfield Reeves:

He dies a terrible death.

Audience:

The

Whitfield Reeves:

story is, you know, we are as a community,

Whitfield Reeves:

creating sports acupuncture.

Whitfield Reeves:

You know, as we move through it every day in this moment, this

Whitfield Reeves:

weekend, we just keep adding to it.

Whitfield Reeves:

We continue to have lectures and articles.

Whitfield Reeves:

People have aha moments in clinic and write about it or communicate about it.

Whitfield Reeves:

We're adding w you know, it's a growing it's, it's all alive.

Whitfield Reeves:

It's a lineage based medicines.

Whitfield Reeves:

So the knowledge base just keeps being added to, and I

Whitfield Reeves:

don't know where it's going.

Whitfield Reeves:

I don't care where it's going now.

Whitfield Reeves:

It is going, and it is being influenced by.

Whitfield Reeves:

The trigger point, people who, you know, dry needling people, uh, Chandigarh

Whitfield Reeves:

the students I have traditional acupuncture is five athletes.

Whitfield Reeves:

It's just keeps getting added to, and, uh, it will continue to evolve and it

Whitfield Reeves:

will need at some point differentiation between, um, sports acupuncture.

Whitfield Reeves:

And in a topical acupuncture and orthopedic acupuncture, they all

Whitfield Reeves:

have different, um, aspects to it.

Whitfield Reeves:

And I think the most important piece with sports acupuncture is kind of what

Whitfield Reeves:

I commented on before the importance of the practitioner really understanding

Whitfield Reeves:

the psyche of the athlete actually like in Steve's original question about

Whitfield Reeves:

with this athlete that is being driven.

Whitfield Reeves:

To training, uh, for some reason, the, uh, sports acupuncture, as we

Whitfield Reeves:

develop all these treatments must and will include understanding the

Whitfield Reeves:

safety of the athlete or translating the emotional states in the ship.

Whitfield Reeves:

This disturbances of shunning them, the other emotions and how that training.

Whitfield Reeves:

To the competitive athlete, then, you know, we're still growing that.

Whitfield Reeves:

Uh, but that would be the piece of sports acupuncture differentiated

Whitfield Reeves:

from anatomical orthopedic acupuncture, slightly different.

Hillary Patts:

It's a really exciting time.

Hillary Patts:

I think athletes are being healthier.

Hillary Patts:

Like Matt said, they're eating better.

Hillary Patts:

Um, concussion is a really big deal.

Hillary Patts:

So they're really paying a lot more attention as are the trainers as are

Hillary Patts:

the coaches, as anybody who is putting their, you know, money down on these guys.

Hillary Patts:

So they want to pay for the best of the best to keep, you know, these million

Hillary Patts:

dollar bodies performing well, and then labor, you know, not having quite the

Hillary Patts:

same side effects that they did, you know, back in the day where they didn't have

Hillary Patts:

to wear home ECS and stuff like that.

Hillary Patts:

So, I think if we can come together as a community, we

Hillary Patts:

were talking about it at lunch.

Hillary Patts:

We're just so separate and really come together at things like this and

Hillary Patts:

communicate and educate and get excited and then go out and drag more people

Hillary Patts:

into it and, you know, get this massive amoeba going because the athletes want it.

Hillary Patts:

The coaches wanted the trainers want X, um, and we can provide them.

Hillary Patts:

Um, the athletes love the more shiny stuff you didn't think they would.

Hillary Patts:

And then they're like, oh, I have that.

Hillary Patts:

And you know, you can bring little bits of that in, so we have that

Hillary Patts:

ability to be different than the dry needling and you know, the PTs and

Hillary Patts:

the trainers and stuff, and really make that arena ours and own it.

Hillary Patts:

But we need to do it because the time is right now, I think, where they're

Hillary Patts:

really open to these kinds of studies.

Matt Callison:

This is really kind of Pandora's box with

Matt Callison:

this one sports acupuncture.

Matt Callison:

I don't think there's a definition I think is left up to interpretation

Matt Callison:

because there are so many different people that practice sports acupuncture.

Matt Callison:

It could be Japanese acupuncture, it could be follow.

Matt Callison:

And I told the acupuncturist could the specialized in sports.

Matt Callison:

Is there a one way of doing that now?

Matt Callison:

There's no way that you want way of doing it.

Matt Callison:

But the common ground is of the more popular that acupuncture and

Matt Callison:

traditional Chinese medicine in my mind.

Matt Callison:

It's like my roots are in TCM.

Matt Callison:

Love it, and want to continue to practice, but it is the more popular.

Matt Callison:

The TCM acupuncture becomes more popular.

Matt Callison:

That sports acupuncture is going to come because.

Matt Callison:

But also as well as gynecology, the field got a college, the TCM skyrocketing,

Matt Callison:

I shouldn't use different fields because acupuncture and the efficacy

Matt Callison:

of acupuncture and TCM is really now in the last decade being recognized.

Audience:

I think it's a super exciting time.

Audience:

I mean, that's why I think it's an exciting time.

Audience:

I think we're going in a great direction.

Audience:

Um, but really this is my question.

Audience:

Where do you want to see this go?

Audience:

And how can we facilitate that as the sports aquaculture Alliance?

Audience:

Um, we got four of us got together and were like, Hey, let's start something.

Audience:

Um, we started with this conference, but we want to see this grow from here

Audience:

and do something where we really bring everybody together, you know, go on

Audience:

some kind of direction that, you know, a lot of people want to see us go.

Audience:

Yeah.

Audience:

Build something and create a great community.

Audience:

And we're not quite sure how we want to do that.

Audience:

We want some feedback from you guys.

Audience:

So from my standpoint, this is more of a question for you guys in this for us,

Matt Callison:

I'm

Hillary Patts:

both a chiropractor and acupuncturist, and I remember.

Hillary Patts:

Watching Joe Montana get adjusted just before the super bowl.

Hillary Patts:

Is anybody old enough to remember that?

Hillary Patts:

And that was monumental for the chiropractic profession that working

Hillary Patts:

with athletes got chiropractors into everybody's lexicon.

Hillary Patts:

So now everybody has a Cairo.

Matt Callison:

It's

Hillary Patts:

exciting to see that.

Hillary Patts:

And it would be really exciting to see in the acupuncture profession.

Hillary Patts:

If you could take that jump, make some of the same mistakes that Kairos did, and I

Hillary Patts:

could give your list and grin acupuncture into the main, in the main stream and

Hillary Patts:

let everybody have an acupuncture.

Hillary Patts:

Okay.

Hillary Patts:

And then you have the specialties and the facial acupuncture, the gynecology,

Hillary Patts:

the sports acupuncture, and the high profile athletes are a great venue,

Hillary Patts:

a great vehicle for the profession.

Hillary Patts:

And so whether you want to treat your runners or your athletes or the guide

Hillary Patts:

payments, or, or if you just want to tap in and be able to ride the wave.

Hillary Patts:

However we can support this.

Hillary Patts:

We support the profession as a whole, I believe.

Audience:

I mean, that's happening with athletes.

Audience:

I remember James Harrison when, um, uh, Kobe Bryan and Serita.

Audience:

I just watched a documentary on screen rooms in the document, you know, it's

Audience:

happening, but athletes are starting to show that they're doing this stuff and

Audience:

I think it's going to be great for us.

Hillary Patts:

So like that.

Hillary Patts:

My background is athletic training and I've spent hundreds of hours in

Hillary Patts:

the training room and I've always wanted if I had more time to be able

Hillary Patts:

to volunteer or work in an athletic training setting, that's not my ideal

Hillary Patts:

setting, but I think it's so important that we infiltrate training rooms to

Hillary Patts:

start becoming part of the traditional athletic training program in the colleges.

Matt Callison:

But it used to be a lot of open audits or to be able to

Matt Callison:

have that come in and it's happening.

Matt Callison:

It's happening.

Matt Callison:

I mean, think about what was happening 15 years ago.

Matt Callison:

There wasn't, there wasn't that much.

Matt Callison:

Yeah.

Matt Callison:

Even tell you she's all that exponentially every year.

Matt Callison:

There's just more and more acupuncturist in hospitals and

Matt Callison:

training rooms is becoming more accepted another 10 years now.

Matt Callison:

It's just going to be

Audience:

amazing or places like salt as acupressure college works.

Audience:

University of Colorado.

Audience:

If I ever find some time, I'm going to try to create a clinic for the wan Institute.

Audience:

It's working with one of the universities in Philadelphia.

Audience:

Um,

Hillary Patts:

yeah, there's a lot of research as well.

Hillary Patts:

I think research is really important to

Matt Callison:

actually

Audience:

attach themselves to

Audience:

some

Whitfield Reeves:

teams right

Matt Callison:

in the school itself is attached

Hillary Patts:

to.

Hillary Patts:

Yeah,

Audience:

I think as

Whitfield Reeves:

far as I'm

Audience:

answering Chad's question or wherever you want to see it,

Whitfield Reeves:

it says sports acupuncture Alliance.

Whitfield Reeves:

So it was creating that network we have with ovaries, like Matt said, there's

Whitfield Reeves:

so many people doing sports acupuncture

Audience:

and there's so many different styles.

Audience:

So it's not crazy

Whitfield Reeves:

that network where we can pretty much all come together

Whitfield Reeves:

and start working towards that greater goal of doing sports acupuncture.

Whitfield Reeves:

Mainstream course is going to be tough, but like I said, some people

Whitfield Reeves:

have to eat good and they didn't have it reinvented the wheel, but it's

Whitfield Reeves:

just creating that network, referring to each other, getting, knowing, you

Whitfield Reeves:

know, how to advance our training.

Whitfield Reeves:

We have Whitfield reads.

Audience:

We have Mac houses

Whitfield Reeves:

and we have many programs and many things out of our hands.

Whitfield Reeves:

I think once we start utilizing that fully and start putting much spreading

Whitfield Reeves:

it to each other and creating like a strong network in which we know,

Whitfield Reeves:

Hey, we do sports acupuncture.

Whitfield Reeves:

We're professionals, we're doctors showing and so forth that we can get

Whitfield Reeves:

that broad scope and make this a true Alliance that solid in the field of

Whitfield Reeves:

sports, medicine, acupuncture, or sports.

Whitfield Reeves:

Yeah.

michael Max:

I'm sorry about our time is up.

michael Max:

So I would encourage you to take the questions, involve gods and, uh,

michael Max:

continue talking with each other through the seasoning, through the rest of,

michael Max:

uh, on and on as, as we all connected because you know, having this Alliance,

michael Max:

this group is really what this four.

michael Max:

Okay.

michael Max:

That's it for this episode, I hope you found this discussion to be as

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