I talk with Essie Baird about anxiety, creativity, filmmaking, and the experience of realizing—years later—that a relationship with a teacher was abuse, what happened when she finally told her story, and the complicated aftermath of coming forward.

Follow Essie on Instagram at @essielikethestar, and watch her films Red & Orange on her YouTube Channel @flood_me_up

If you or someone you know has been affected by sexual abuse, help is available anytime through the National Sexual Assault hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE or at RAINN.org.

Please show some support for the podcast and get access to some extra content by subscribing to the Patreon page: http://www.patreon.com/onefjef

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You can also call the podcast and leave a voicemail at 1-669-241-5882 and I will probably play it on the air.

Thank you for listening, please do it again, but with your spider spirit animal.

Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.

We had just discovered what it meant to mouth olive juice

from across the room, that looks like you're saying I love you to someone, right?

Within a day or two, he would catch me from across the room and he would mouth olive

juice to me. And that's where it begins. This is episode 32 of onefjef.

32 shows up in systems that have become organized enough to function as a whole.

A chess game begins with 32 pieces, a complete and balanced setup.

Humans develop 32 adult teeth once growth is essentially finished.

Water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit, a clear physical threshold.

In older symbolic systems, 32 was used to represent a complete map of understanding

and the idea of internal alignment, the point where perception, decision and action are coordinated.

Hello once again, my friends. How are you?

As always, I do hope you're thriving. I hope you saw the sun today.

I hope if you did see the sun that you felt a overwhelming sense of gratitude flow through you

because I haven't seen the sun in quite a while. And to clarify, when I say see the sun,

I don't mean look directly at the sun because that apparently burns your eyes out.

Although I've yet to meet anyone who that's happened to.

Trump did it on TV years ago during an eclipse, stared right at the sun, and he can still see.

Honestly, I'm not sure if it would be better if he was blind. I think it might actually be worse.

Hey, food for thought. I digress. My guess today is Essie Baird.

Essie Baird is a Columbus-based actress and filmmaker whose work centers on intimate,

psychologically sharp storytelling. She wrote, directed and starred in the short films Orange and Red,

projects that foreground interior states, power dynamics and the subtle mechanics of harm and self-awareness.

As a performer and director, her work is marked by restraint, emotional precision and a refusal to sensationalize difficult material,

placing lived experience and internal truth at the centre of the frame.

I met Essie through this film networking group. I've been a part of here in Columbus for several years.

The first time we met, I told her I was starting this podcast and I was still struggling to come up with a name.

And then at some point, later in the conversation, it came up that my Instagram was onefjef and my websites onefjef.com and so forth.

And she's like, "onefjef, that's the name of your podcast that has to be the name." And she was right.

So thank you for that, Essie. Most of the conversations that I've had on this podcast have been fairly light,

which isn't to say that we haven't talked about dark or controversial subjects, but the general tenor of the conversations has,

as far as I can recall, remained fairly light.

This one with Essie fairly quickly took an unexpected turn, for me at least, into a disturbing and difficult story about childhood sexual abuse.

So, if hearing about experiences like that is upsetting to you, this may be an episode for you to skip.

That said, it is an important story that needs to be told, because stories like this don't get told nearly often enough.

And I'm grateful to Essie for being open and vulnerable in sharing it on my podcast.

We also talk about her films and spirit animals, the joy of sowing past lives.

So, something for everyone. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here.

Here's my conversation with Essie Beard.

Let's talk about anxiety.

Well, we're going right in there. I was going to start with some sort of introduction, but we can...

I was thinking about this today, and I've always prided myself for a long time.

Prided myself as being a millennial that did not suffer from depression and anxiety.

I was like, wow, I've escaped this.

But then post-COVID, I decided that I do, in fact, suffer from anxiety and depression.

I think we all do. And so it was just kind of one of those funny things that I woke up today thinking about this podcast

and very, very anxious to come on today and just talk, which is interesting.

I'm like, what is that? That's not been the case for me all my life.

Right. I mean, yeah, it's interesting because it's like a forced conversation, right? We have to keep going.

It's sort of similar to what I was talking about earlier. You asked me what was in my bag.

And I was saying, I do have... I do start with different types of journals.

Right.

And I do try to organize them like this journal is for this specific subject.

Right.

One, I recently started was the one specifically to be read by someone.

And I think we never really admit that there's this risk of our journals always being read, right?

But I mean, once you're gone.

Sure. Once you're gone. But hypothetically, what if they're read before you're gone?

I keep very close watch on them in my case. So I feel like this podcast is essentially the journal that you're writing to be read.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. So you just want to open your journal and start reading from them or...

Let's get some more foundation first.

Right. Right. Right. So I met SD at a film gathering. We met at a film gathering, if I recall.

And I have to give you credit because you're the one who actually gave me the idea for the name for the podcast.

Because I told you... I was telling you I was trying to work... tried a podcast at the time.

And I couldn't come up with a good name. And then I told you that I gave you my business card or something.

And you know, my business card is onefjef. That's kind of my brand. You're like, that's the name. That's the name of your podcast.

Yeah. For me, that was so obvious.

Right. And it was an obvious to me.

I mean, right. Right. Right. Right. And especially now knowing to the nature of the podcast.

What do you mean by that?

Again, it's like your journal that you're wanting people to read.

It's like you are doing this purely out of the enjoyment of having conversation.

Yeah. Connection. Things like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So it felt, you know, oh, you're Jef with 1F. You're onefjef. This is your podcast.

There's not really a big stretch in what is the podcast about?

Yeah. Yeah. I still don't know what it's about.

But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully, you know, I can market that and get moon wine to sponsor this podcast.

Yes. Moon wine. Moon wine. Delicious. Refreshing.

It's not quite how I would have described it. Moon wine.

Oh, well, we'll work on it. Maybe it'll get more refreshing as you go.

So anyway, thank you for giving me the title for the podcast because that was a big hump to overcome.

And here you are now. So I don't really know a whole lot about you.

I know about your movies and stuff like that. But like where did you grow up in Columbus?

Yeah. I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, specifically Upper Arlington.

And I always feel like there's a very like initial reaction to that because there's a lot of, especially now.

So, okay. So I currently live in Franklin, and when I tell people where I'm from, they're always just a little bit surprised.

Because I think they don't expect me to say that. I don't know.

What do you think the Upper Arlington, the stereotype is of Upper Arlington that people assume?

Rich, white, upper class community.

Oh, alright. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that though.

Are you actually saying there's nothing wrong with that? Are you being sarcastic?

No, not at all. Not at all. I mean, like you had nothing to do with that. It was just your parents.

Like you're born into a family that has some money. And like I wish my family had more money when I was growing up.

So, okay. So that's the thing. Like the irony of you assuming that I was born into a family with money.

Ah, I see.

Because I live in Upper Arlington, right?

Right. Right. Right. Right.

So that's actually not true at all.

Oh, okay.

So these are some folks, right?

Yeah. So, but I mean, sure did my parents afford a home in Upper Arlington and fight tooth and nail to stay afloat every single day to maintain residency in that neighborhood to give my sister and I the best education.

Because you know, when at that time, Upper Arlington was one of, if not the top, like education that you can get in Central Ohio. So that was the big, that was the big appeal.

So, but that was a huge, huge barrier, like growing up in terms of my perception of reality was like very different from the rest of my schoolmates.

Oh, right.

Because you were one of the poor people at the school. But to say that now sounds so like I grew up in Upper Arlington, like I was the poor kid in Upper Arlington.

Right. It's still not true, but in my world in Upper Arlington, that was the truth and that was how I saw it now.

Right. The suburb that I grew up in, Northern Ohio was fairly well to do. And I mean, we were somewhere in the middle, I think, in terms of like, but like I didn't have a car when I was in high school or anything like that.

And a lot of people had cars and stuff. And what were you like in high school? What kind of crowd crew did you hang out with, with the drama kids or were you with a...

No, I, if we are putting it in breakfast club, I would probably be the jock.

Oh, really? Yeah. What kind of sports did you?

Soccer and basketball.

Oh, were you good?

Yes.

Oh, I like that.

But no.

Oh.

It's one of those things where like I feel like I came out of the womb playing sports. I was incredibly athletic.

But I, because I was so superior from a growth and athleticism, because I grew faster than most other girls.

Right.

I never developed very good technique, because for a lot of years I could just outrun and outstrength.

And I didn't have to be very finessed and very good.

Right. Natural talent. Yeah. Because I was just huge compared to most other girls, my age.

And then we all merged in high school, same height, same weight, same all of that.

And so while I had athletic abilities, I wasn't, I was not the star athlete, especially not in basketball.

That was high school. Was it good? Was it bad? Oh my gosh. It's so, it's very difficult to say whether or not it was good or bad.

My high school reality was probably quite a bit different than most high schoolers.

And what, what, no way.

I guess we'll just talk about it. I was, I'm starting as a sixth grader.

Okay.

I entered into what I thought was a relationship with a teacher.

Oh.

So I was 12 years old.

And this relationship, I'm using air quotes right now, went through my junior year of high school.

So six, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, I'll let into my eleventh year.

Wow. So like, I didn't have a lot of friends in high school.

Right.

I had my teammates and was that a result of the lack of friends?

Was that a direct result of the relationship saying quote unquote?

Yeah, we can go ahead and call it abuse.

Right. Okay. Fair enough.

Yeah, yeah. Like I was controlled in a way that I obviously didn't realize I was being controlled.

Sure. Through 12 years old, right?

Yeah, that's starting there.

And then, you know, entering into high school, a big part of his methods was rooted in religion.

And so girls that were having sex in high school were sinners.

Kids that are drinking in high school are sinners.

And so the irony is obviously very like palpable there.

Sure. I mean, the idea.

Yeah. Yes, because of course he was sexually abusing me.

So it's hard to say what high school was like because I was so consumed in a completely different reality.

Right.

And if I almost don't, I don't remember either worlds because it was so split in half that it's like very that specific period, specifically high school.

I remember a lot more from middle school, but once high school hit the memory is really vague.

Was he a teacher in your middle school?

It was the gym teacher at my middle school as well as my track coach.

Often the gym teachers, yeah.

And or English teachers. That's the other one.

Oh, I've never heard that one, but yeah, they usually gift their victims Lolita the book.

Yeah, it's a really popular thing to you.

No, I know. I mean, I actually do love the book, but yeah, I get it.

So I imagine when this started, you felt probably like special.

Oh, I was so special. Everyone had a crush on Mr. Cutler.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

I mean, was he a handsome man?

But he chose me.

Right. Right.

Yes, he was so hot.

Like every single all the moms, all the girls, all the teachers, everyone had a crush on Mr. Cutler.

How old was he?

25 when he started.

Wow.

And I was entering middle school sixth grade.

It was his first year of teaching.

So how did it, how did it start?

It's a kind of like an interesting like which start do you want to go down?

Which ever start you want to know?

Like the initial stages of grooming.

Yeah, I'm curious about the story, but as much as the stories you want to tell, I had no idea.

So like as much of the story that you're comfortable telling, I'm curious about.

I mean, one of the first things I remember was all of the girls,

were running around.

We had just discovered what it meant to say all of juice, what it meant to mouth all of juice to someone.

What does that mean?

So if you mouth, like if I, and for the audience, I just mouth all of juice.

Right. Thank you for that.

Thank you for that.

It's no video.

Thank you for that.

And yeah, from across the room, that looks like you're saying, I love you.

You just have fun.

Right.

So he actually oversaw like the gym or the recess lunch period.

And all of the girls are, you know, we're always, all the kids really, boys and girls are always surrounding him wanting to talk to him.

Like he was just a charming teacher.

Yes.

The cool charming teacher.

And we had just discovered this all of juice thing.

And so of course, we like all ran over to tell him.

Like Mr. Collar, what do you think I'm saying to you right now?

Right.

You know, like, and then it was within a day or two from that encounter that he would catch me from across the room.

Like looking at me, I was looking at him and he would mouth all of juice to me.

And I was like, you know, my God, did what did he just say?

Did he just do that for me?

And I think I ran over and I asked him, I go, did you just mouth all of juice to me?

And he goes, yeah, but let's just shorten it to all of that way.

And I mouth it to you.

People won't know or think that I'm saying that I love you.

Right.

And that's where it begins.

Wow.

That's, I mean, first off, olives don't really have juice.

So I just want to establish that.

But, yeah, that's creepy.

It's like he knew what he was doing.

It's as if he knew what he was doing.

Or perhaps he've done it before.

Or perhaps it's happened to him.

Or perhaps it's happened to him.

Because abuse does be get abuse, you know?

Yeah.

How did it proceed from?

It was a lot of little things like that that kind of add up over, you know, a long period of time.

And he had a special treatment, like it was a sixth grader, but he allowed me to practice with the track team.

He would also, he worked at a fitness center after school.

And he told us which fitness center that he worked at.

And he would tell us, us as in like a group of girls to call him.

And I realized now that most girls never really had the guts to do that, right?

Right.

But I did.

And I was, you know, obviously some, some aspect of like super eager for attention.

And really trying to prove my existence.

Well, no, it makes sense too.

Because like when you're that age, you want to, you want to, you want to, it's just grown-ups.

And like he was the coolest grown-up, you probably knew at the time.

Exactly.

And so, yeah, I would call him at the fitness center.

And we would just talk on the phone for hours.

About what kind of things would you, I mean, you're 12 years old and he's.

Exactly.

Can you imagine having a conversation with a 12 year old.

For hours.

I mean, yeah, no, no.

Right.

It was this very long, drawn out process.

It was a very, very much a process of experimentation from his part.

Like let me throw these little baits and see who can I isolate.

I think there were more, there, there wasn't just you at the beginning, it was a, it was.

Oh, yeah, he cast a white net.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

He gave his number or and told several girls to call him at work.

My sister was one of them, her friends as well.

Because my sister was an eighth grader when I was in sixth grade.

Right.

So all of her friends were in on this too.

And he would also pit us against each other.

He'd be like, did you hear that so and so can do this many push ups or wow, I just saw so and so's abs.

And I think that that's because she's doing this kind of ab workout.

She has this, it's just like really weird, strange examples like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like you became the one because you were the one who was, you know, engaging.

So it's hard to remember how I knew this, but I knew that he, I knew that he liked me or that he had like selected me.

Right.

And so my parents couldn't pick my sister and I up from track practice one night.

So somehow he got permission or something to give us a ride home.

And my parents weren't home.

Obviously they weren't able to, they weren't around for some reason.

So he came inside, dropped my sister and I off and came inside the house.

And like trying to impress him because I thought this was really cool.

I would tell him I was going on runs like really early in the morning or really late at night.

Sure.

So I was like, hey Jane, my sister, hey Mr. Kyler, I'm going to go for a run.

Like so ridiculous. It was, you know, I don't know what time after work, but it was dusk.

Right.

So I go on run up the street and like for some reason I knew to wait for him at the top of the street.

And so I ran to the top of the street.

I could see him pulling out of my driveway and he pulled up next to me at the top of the street.

And he rolled down his window and I came up to the window and it was something like,

I want to kiss you but I'm not allowed to is what he said.

And then so that the daring little 12-year-old that I was leaned in and kissed him.

Like I remember that so specifically.

And again, this is an adult man, but in my 12-year-old mind, I was just blown away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like the infatuation.

You're getting welcomed into the grownups world, right?

Yeah.

It clearly never felt anything like that.

And yeah, it's a very insidious form of abuse.

For sure.

Did your parents know anything was like a rye?

It's funny that, well, it's not funny that we're talking about this, but it's just interesting that we've gone directly into this.

But it does form and shape a lot of my life.

That's what you're asking about here. It's very, very significant in every part of my life.

I'm sure.

But my dad passed away in 2021.

And ever since you passed, I've always felt like I could actually... he was actually there.

And I did struggle with mental illness, undiagnosed mental illness.

He was much older for even my age, parent.

So he just didn't really have the resources to be the parent that I think my sister and I really needed.

Let's share all of that to say that there is this part of me that thinks that he might have known.

And/or suspected that something was happening.

And I think it's kind of this willful blindness.

I think there was this instinct in him that suspected something.

Because he almost caught us once in the middle of the night in my house.

So the teacher, the abuser, coached at Upper Arlington.

But he himself lived in London, Ohio, which is about a 30-minute drive outside of Columbus, Ohio.

So after Friday night football games, because he had to get up early for film the next morning, he wanted a place to crash in Upper Arlington.

And of course, over the period of time that he coached my sister and I, he befriended my parents.

Sure.

He got very close with my parents.

Of course.

My parents thought of him as like a son.

Sure.

And we lived very near the high school walking distance from the high school.

So he after Friday night football games would come and spend the night at our house.

And we had a split level house.

There was a bedroom on the first level, the level you walk in on that also had a screen door in the back, getting to the back backyard.

The teacher had already started abusing me at this point.

Right.

And when we were looking at this house to buy it, we walked in and I was like, I need the first floor bedroom.

Like I was so insistent on having that bedroom because I was immediately seeking my exit points and my entry points.

Anyway, fast forward Friday nights, he's spending the night.

And we would spend the night in the pullout couch on the second level living room.

And then he would come down to my level and we were in the bathroom once.

And we heard something.

We heard someone moving upstairs and he was like, hurry, go back to bed.

And I like ran out of the bathroom, jumped in bed.

And I like just like fell face first on the bed. The bedroom door was open. I never slept with my bedroom door open.

I never slept without covers on, but I was like just like on top of the bed.

And like I could hear my dad coming down and he peeked into my bedroom.

And I like saw him like out of the corner of my eye.

And then I could hear him running into the teacher and he was like, hey, what do you do, not man?

And he's like, just go into the bathroom, you know?

Like he's like, all right, I thought I heard something. And my dad went back upstairs.

And again, like I don't think that he knew, but I also don't think that he tried to go further.

That he wanted to know what I don't think he wanted to know.

What about your mom?

I really don't think my mom knew.

My mom was just as fooled as me and most people.

Did you know what was going on? Was it illicit?

Yeah, like I knew as a 12 year old student that I was not allowed to be with a teacher.

Like I knew that was not allowed.

But I was so bullied by other girls.

Me too, not by girls.

By other kids, boys and girls, but specifically girls, they would make fun of me for being obsessed with Mr. Color.

And so this was like a huge part of this cannot come out.

Because if it comes out, then my entire social life is gone.

And all these people are going to oust me.

And I'm going to be kicked out. And I'm going to be even more bullied than I already am.

Is that what he would say or was that what you thought?

That was what I thought.

Was this going on consistently?

Well, you were like, was it like a consistent thing the entire?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I am, this was my boyfriend in my reality.

And he was going to marry me.

Did you say he would say that?

He would say that.

As soon as I turned 18, I was going to go to Ohio State.

And as soon as I turned 18, he was going to tell my parents that he wanted to take me out on the date.

And then after enough months of dating, then we could say that we were in love.

And then we could get married.

And then we could live happily ever after.

Would you go on dates or was it just like the Seraptitious meetings too?

We would go on dates to fast food restaurants.

Mm-hmm.

Romantic.

Yeah.

That's so, yeah, that's why I laughed because I think about it.

By the time I could drive, that's when we were able to actually go on dates.

Right.

Because it was a combination of me looking old enough to be with him in public.

Okay.

And me having easier access to transportation.

Right.

Because up until I could drive, he would have to pick me up.

Right.

Like he would usually take me to his house in London, Ohio.

And I would hide under the retractable hood in the back of his explorer.

So it would have to get into his vehicle at a time.

And then when someone was around and watching and wait there,

pull the retractable hood and wait.

And then I would like wait for him to get in the car.

But this could be up to an hour because he would have me get there

while he was in coaches meetings.

Right.

Anyway, that's how I would go to and from London, Ohio.

And you would tell your parents that you were what going just hang out with friends or?

Oh my god, there's so many different things that I would tell them I was doing.

A lot of times I would just tell them I was going to go play like in the park or go somewhere that was on my own.

Right.

I don't even remember all the things I would tell my mom to get out of the house for a certain hours.

But my mom worked a lot.

Right.

And then I would do a ton of the access to me.

Right.

You know, dad's struggling to keep jobs because struggling with mental illness.

Mom's working constantly to keep ends meet me.

What the fuck is the phrase?

Keep the ends meet.

Make the ends meet.

Make the ends meet.

Make ends meet.

And your sister didn't?

I don't know what you were like in high school, but we didn't pay very close attention to one.

How much old?

How much older?

She's a couple years older than me.

Okay, same.

And again, maybe there were some part of her that knew something was going on too.

I do think that she and I have a very strong, intuitive connection.

But she was lied to and brainwashed by him as well.

Every person was in his corner.

Everyone loved him.

Right.

He could do no wrong.

So there's no one that I could point any fingers at.

Charm goes a long way.

Then to him is solely responsible for the manipulation of me and my entire family

and an entire community that had mattered.

Sure, sure, sure.

And beyond.

Right.

And was there like an actual connection?

Like, what did you guys talk about?

Or was it so much based on his wanting to sexually abuse you that it was mostly just getting to that?

I remember I'm talking to me a lot about his family.

And he would tell me about his relationship with his dad.

And how his dad was abusive towards him and that they were in constant conflict.

They never got along.

He would talk to me about his ex-girlfriend Heather who cheated on him with one of his buddies in college.

So he elicited my empathy.

Sure.

Especially like as young as I was.

And he would say things like I'll never be happy until we're married.

So like he put his entire purpose and happiness and existence on my little shoulders.

And do you think that that was true that he actually did want to marry you?

Yeah.

That's the scariest part.

And that's why we don't come forward sooner with this kind of stuff.

Because I do believe there is a particular perversion with these people that is there genuinely blind to what they're doing.

They do not know that they're abusing.

There's a sickness there.

There's a sickness.

And so that then is like in your head for so many years until it's like you start opening up to one person.

And the therapist was the first person for me.

And then you slowly start to drip it to more and more people to like build strength.

Because you're like, well no one's going to believe this.

And I don't know if I believe this because I've never set it out loud.

Right.

So it feels like very intangible.

And you start telling one story after another after another and one person after another after another and after.

And they all give you the same look.

It's like it's like that mix of deep sadness and grief of course.

A little bit of pity.

But a lot of I don't understand how you didn't see this until now.

And so and that's the gap.

That's the like seeing my reaction was the only thing that made me realize it was abuse.

And then you're like, oh shit.

But up until then you didn't think of it up until you started to talk about it when you were 30 or so.

You didn't think of it as being.

And how did it end?

I just remember feeling really trapped.

I remember thinking, man, I really want to go to prom.

I really want to go to prom and I'm not allowed to go to prom.

Because he wouldn't.

It was awesome to go do anything social because he was very controlling.

Because boys would be there and what if boys were to hit on me or take me or.

He would threaten me with a lot of ultimatums and I don't remember what the ultimatums were specifically.

It was like if you continue doing this, I'm going to leave you for someone else.

And so I do believe he started.

And I know for a fact he was dating like now in hindsight listening to like other people.

And their witness testimonies because I did pursue justice against this person.

Realizing that he was dating women while we were dating.

That was one of the things that for me was still so hard for me to imagine.

Because again my reality as a six through junior high schooler was that I was the only one.

He was dating other people in high school.

Throughout this whole time because as soon as I was feeling this really like I was feeling trapped and I was just realizing that I wasn't allowed to do anything and I was pissed off about this.

And then that mixed up with his ultimatums.

If you do this, I'm going to leave you for someone else.

If you keep doing this, I'm going to leave you for someone else.

I just remember one day.

I was on by this point I could talk to him on my cell phone.

Sure.

And I just remember one day being like, I don't want to do this anyway.

I'm talking to myself on my cell phone. I made my bedroom. I don't want to do this with you anymore.

I fucking hate you.

Fuck you.

And I flipped my flip-phone shut.

Right.

Slammed it shut, you know really.

And I just like remember like falling down onto my bed and thinking.

I'm afraid.

I didn't.

I'm out.

And I felt so relieved.

I just felt like the happiest I've ever been.

And so I genuinely, when I say I don't remember, I really do not remember what happened leading up to that moment.

But I just knew that with the demands of high school, I was a really good student.

Got all A's was a varsity athlete like trying to have like a social life.

Right.

Trying to make friends really for the first time because had never really figured that out or really decided that I had cared.

Right.

And I was having crushes on other boys and I was really wanting to go to prom.

Right.

And I remember like all the boys I had crushes on.

And I even actually talked to one of them like after I had come out with my story and I called it and we chatted for a little bit.

Because I was trying to see if you remembered anything.

And I was like, you know I had the biggest crush on you.

And I was like, "S.E.I. the biggest crush on you too, but I didn't know I didn't like me."

And it's like those little stories that really raised my heart.

Did he respond in a bad way or did he just let it go after you?

I think because he was threatening, he kept threatening to leave me for someone else.

And he had already started dating.

Who is now his wife?

Wow.

And who is the mother of his children?

Who was in high school?

I believe that I remember him talking about Elaine.

I don't get what I'm hiding.

I was in months of me slamming my flip phone shut.

Because we would stay in contact.

And he's like 30 at this point.

Yeah.

In his 30s.

Yeah.

But do you think it was somebody else like another?

I think that he was intentionally trying to make me leave him and was but like purposely.

Kind of blaming me for a lot of things at that time.

Because I think he had met her.

And I could go back through all the conversations I've had with people to kind of align these timeline.

Sure.

Of when they started.

And I'm quite certain there was an overlap which if I was Elaine I'd be fucking pissed.

Yeah.

I mean either way I'd be fucking like how can you marry?

Right.

That's just crazy to me.

Yeah.

Like if I were in his shoes I would be constantly concerned about getting in trouble for this kind of a thing.

Right.

Like getting broken up with by you and then you going out and starting to tell people like.

Well, they keep an eye on you.

How do you mean?

They keep in touch with you on a regular basis.

No.

No matter what.

They're you have done no wrong.

They are rooting for you.

They're like one of your biggest champions in life.

I see.

I'm here for you for any reason.

Right.

They're not the enemy and there's no reason to go after the enemy because they're not the enemy.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

So we had a text dialogue even like I kept a flip phone from college.

And dug it out and it was actually used for evidence in my case.

A text conversation that he and I were having my freshman year of college.

Wow.

So he kept in touch.

He kept small circles with people.

Right.

He knew everything about my life.

And he's working at the he was working at the high school up until 2018.

Wow.

Which is also last year I texted with him because 2018 with me to movement.

Right.

Right.

And that that along with turning 30.

I was like waking up to as in 30 with the year that I told the therapist for the first time.

So it was the combination of me to movement along with talking to a therapist for the first time that things started to unfold for me.

So when you told the therapist the first time you weren't aware that it had been a bad thing or was it starting to like it still really had it clicked.

Right.

Like it was one of those things where I was like so I'm divorced.

Okay.

And me personally I got married when I was 27 so 10 years ago.

So that was 2015 that I get married.

And something just didn't I was just unhappy my marriage.

I was I feel like when you hit your late 20 something you start like waking up to like the world, you know, right.

Remember getting a text from him around that same time and I was just kind of like.

I'm not going to answer that for some reason that really scares me to answer him right now.

You know when you get a text from someone who you used to be so excited to get a text from.

Then all of a sudden like the feeling your body goes from like heart excitement to heart drops through like the death of your soul and splatters on the ground.

Well, I guess not that intense level of that.

That's what it feels like for me.

Okay.

And you're like, oh shit, like something just you just woke up to like.

Oh, something's really scaring me about this person.

Yeah.

That's what that text felt like and I didn't reply and he never texted me again after that.

And this was 2018 and this was also shortly after another teacher had been found guilty of sexual harassment at Upper Arlington.

And he was a teacher that you know he knew so I think he by me not replying to that text.

There was like a like a we are now at war.

Yeah.

But that was 2018 right.

And then you know, I didn't actually open in the investigation until 2021.

So you realize this has happened obviously probably when you tell the therapist the story the therapist is like well, clearly this is you know not.

And then how did it get from there to the decision to the charges.

Yeah, it's it's an interesting progression because like I said the therapist was the first person I told.

But then I started taking acting classes.

This is where we get to the end.

And I was in an acting class in this particular acting coach that I still work with Kirkbolts, shadowed to Kirkbolts.

He's very much about actors writing their own scenes and own monologues.

And so it was a monologue that I had written that really opened it like cracked it wide open for me.

And it was recorded because part of the class was like at the end you're going to have a recorded monologue for your reels.

And then I showed that to my sister.

And she was like, wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

What are you saying?

And to watch her go from completely pissed off at me for lying to her.

She was fucking pissed.

Interesting.

How could you have not told me then to complete grief sadness, betrayal to like the reality of what had happened.

Right.

I mean, I guess that.

And that are cappened in the course of an evening.

Right.

Talking there about it.

And then at the end of the conversation, you know, we're hugging and she's apologizing for her initial reaction.

And I'm like, it's okay.

It's a lot.

It's fine.

I also lied to you.

I did.

Yeah.

And then we're hugging and we're saying goodbye.

And we look at each other.

We're like, we can never tell mom.

We never tell mom.

Because our dad had already passed at this point.

And then, oh, it was child sex abuse awareness month.

And I'm on Facebook.

And I'm noticing that my sixth grade choir teacher had posted something about child sex abuse on his page.

And my sixth grade choir teacher started the same year as Mr. Cutler at the middle school.

So I was like, hey, I'd love to just get together with you.

Talk a little bit.

Catch up.

See if you remember anything from middle school that, you know, I was super big.

So we sit down.

We have a, we're getting a beer in Franklin 10.

And I was like, hey, so you know what?

I really actually reached out to you because I sold this thing that you posted on Facebook.

And he was like, oh, yeah.

And I just proceed to tell him my story.

And then he proceeds to tell me his story.

And it was one of those like post pandemic moments where we're like,

all in this like deep awakening.

And this like, you're waking up to like the reality of the world.

And like, we left the conversation just being like, wow, he was very like appreciative that I had shared and felt safe enough to share with him.

And it was within days after that though that he messaged me and was like, I'm so sorry, SE.

I just wanted to let you know that I have just come from UAPD reporting the abuse of Mr. color on you.

I didn't think about this in the moment truly as you were telling me, but I am required by law to report abuse.

Especially because you still teacher and color were still teaching, especially for somebody who's still around children right now.

I had to then go in and give my testimony.

And once I gave my testimony, then it was like, we have about 48 hours to try to get a confession from this guy.

Before they have to go in and take them out of the schools because he could be abusing somebody actively right now.

I mean, should take him out of the school either way, but yeah, right.

So that's how it started.

It was a teacher.

It was, I didn't even decide to pursue justice, but it was one of those things where it was like, I just got divorced.

I got divorced early 2021.

My dad died a couple months after that.

And this was a couple months after that.

I was like, fuck it.

So you're raw.

Let's go.

Here we go.

Right.

So I just like, whatever, you know, and then like, you know, so I don't, I'm not at all upset that this teacher ignited that movement.

Sure.

My choir teacher, I mean, because I wouldn't be aware of any of this if he hadn't.

What do you mean?

I mean, that once you decide to pursue justice, you are like you force yourself into...

And to confront it, right?

To truly confront it, to take it face on.

And to go all in on the reality of what actually happened.

Right.

And that is the most devastating thing that I have ever faced and will hopefully ever face.

I haven't been the same since it has opened a leak that I haven't been able to patch up.

I don't feel like I can't and I don't feel like it won't.

It's just harder.

Everything just seems a little bit...

I'm just super sensitive.

But I mean, it had to happen.

It did.

Yes.

Because for my growth as a human, I had to see this for what it was.

And then I had to also see all of the parts of me that I did not like as a result of that.

Yeah, but...

Or not.

Yeah.

I think looking back and regret and things like that are a lot of...

And I know this is easy for me to say, but I think it's a lot of wasted energy.

In this case, I feel like you had to rectify the things that happened in the past in order to move forward.

Right?

That just never happened.

Like the court case and all that.

You would have been stuck in this place of like unreality and...

But to have to look that straight in the eye and finally say to yourself, this is actually what happened and this was bad.

Yeah, I...

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

It was like... it was a reckoning.

It was a reckoning with myself.

That also came with a lot of...

A lot of self hate because how could I have been blind to it for so long?

But you were young?

Yeah.

But I was young, but we'd become an adult when we're...

Let's just argue.

We'd become an adult when we're 25.

You don't need to do that.

There's no good that's going to come of that though.

But like those are all of the... those are all of the reckonings that come with the decision to see it for what it was.

And then to go through your whole self blame era and to still be battling it.

I'd love to be like, it doesn't define me.

It's not...

It doesn't.

It doesn't, but it has...

It plays such an interesting role in my perception of...

The world and my reality right now.

Sure.

But then I'm like, fuck that.

It doesn't have that much power.

I can decide that it doesn't hold any of that anymore.

Right.

And then as soon as I'm like, yeah, I don't believe that.

I don't believe that.

And then something triggers me.

And I'm like, damn it.

My body's still holding on to something.

Yeah.

I don't look all that stuff.

You gotta look all that.

And that's the best thing to do.

Yeah.

But it's so much easier than done.

I'm still working through that literally every day.

Yeah.

I have like a workbook.

My therapist gave me to teach me to stop hating myself.

I'm like, you're the same workbook you have.

Did it feel that all like there was a weight lifted?

Is this weird thing?

Like, it feels...

In some ways lighter, because the whole notion of the truth

will set you free.

Like, that really did feel...

It felt like, oh, now I can tell anybody anything.

Just because like that is like the thing that I was the most ashamed of.

And now like, oh, literally nothing matters.

There was such a leaving that.

Yeah.

But I would say the weight of grief is still very, very, very heavy on me.

And that's like the part where I say I just kind of feel like I'm constantly leaking.

Like, energy is leaking from me.

And I'm just...

I feel tired and sad a lot.

But it doesn't feel like depression.

No.

It truly feels like I am just in this constant state of grief.

Do you feel like talking about it and rehashing it is helpful?

Or is it actually keeping you back there?

I was asked that a lot when I was going through all of the hearings.

But I haven't been...

I haven't really talked about it as much since then.

Right.

And my case kind of concluded about a little over a year ago.

Like, the critic of me is like, you need to move on, Essie.

Just move on.

This is in the past.

It's not relevant anymore.

But then the writer in me and the person that wants to help explain this to others

and help them understand what abuse really looks like in such a subtle way that this presented itself.

Really values these conversations and finds them necessary because it's so subtle.

His particular type of abuse is so subtle and so insidious because of that.

But is there a line between doing what's right for you and doing what's right for the world to know?

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't think there's an answer there.

I'm just asking a question.

I don't know.

It's tough to say.

Because it's got to be hard to talk about like I'm watching you.

And I understand.

And I just wonder like where the line is between trying to make people aware of these kind of things.

Because I think it's going on far more often than people realize.

It's very systematic.

Yeah.

In line with all the people.

I mean, every high school I know, everybody, you know, there's the gym teacher in my high school.

Yeah.

But also doing what's right for your mental health and finding a way to move on.

I mean, and I'm not here with answers.

I'm just asking a question, you know, I just want you to be happy.

I want you to be able to move on from this, you know.

So one of the films I made last year, which I just have two short films.

No, I watched them both.

Was inspired.

Both of them are all, everything is inspired by, you know, this.

Like the second one called Orange Woods, heavily inspired by this abuse.

And the idea that like I live with this guilt of not having come forward sooner.

And it, like, it's series of events, like triggered in this film, my awakening of my abuse.

And to like the reality that like I need to fight back, right?

I forget what you asked me.

It was about the line between continuing to talk about it and moving forward.

I think that was the last time.

Oh, oh, oh, it will.

It's these films though that are catching people's attention.

And between that and then also making my hearing public.

A lot of people will open up to me.

Sure.

And I'm out there abuse.

And I'm like, I'm extra hard on myself in those moments because I'm always like, oh shit, you gotta, like, you.

You gotta remember what it's like for them right now.

Because sometimes I don't remember what it's like.

And in the, in the initial moment, you're just like, I don't know what to say in this person right now.

And that's wild.

That's wild.

That's okay.

Right.

And then, and then you, you get home and you're like, oh my God.

What happened to the guy?

He, he was found guilty and pled guilty and was sentenced to an endangering children, which in the state of Ohio is a felony in the third degree.

But he was indicted and charged with multiple counts of rape, multiple counts of sexual battery, multiple counts of unlawful sexual misconduct with a minor.

Right.

And the prosecutors that I was working with said we, we won't settle for anything less than a sexual offense and a sexual offender, um, listing or whatever.

And through a series of events, ultimately, let him off with endangering children, which wasn't anything that he was originally charged with.

But it's something that they do in the state of Ohio, charging people with a significantly less felony.

Today, former Upper Arlington coach and teacher Joel Cutler was sentenced to three months in jail after pleading guilty to child endangering.

This comes after he was accused of sexually assaulting a student over a four year period.

NBC Forest Delaney Ruth was at the sentencing and has what we learned.

Joel Cutler will now spend three months in jail and serve five years of community control after pleading guilty back in November.

But the victim says this is not enough of a punishment.

As he bared, a former Hastings middle school student came forward two years ago, accusing Joel Cutler of sexually assaulting her between 2000 and 2003, starting when she was just 12 years old.

At Cutler sentencing hearing today, bared her mother and her sister all gave heartfelt victim impact statements to the judge, sharing how Cutler's alleged abuse of bared has had a huge effect on each of their lives.

Judge Dan Hogan ended up sentencing Cutler to three months in jail and Cutler can work at a schedule so we can have both a job and serve his term, saying that Cutler's wife and children rely on his income.

Judge Hogan says this may look like Cutler going to jail only on weekends. He'll also be on community control for five years.

Bared says she is very upset with the outcome of today's sentencing. She says this process felt like a waste of her time, but she still doesn't regret coming forward.

She helps that other children do not have to go through the same thing.

It's crazy to me that he's married now. Still married after through it all, she's not leaving.

And with kids. Yes. I wonder what story he'd play charmed her with stories about. Oh, this is just blah blah blah.

Yes. I've known people like that. These charming sociopaths who...

Yes. Yes. They kind of go together. I mean, it's like Donald Trump.

Because of faith and forgiveness. You know, we got to forgive people. Right?

We do have to forgive people. Well, the extra complicated part of the story is that like, you know, you suggested earlier that he was abused himself and it sounds like he maybe was right perhaps.

So, where do you start to... I mean, he's clearly a sick person, right? Who needs help in some way? It's just a cyclical thing that makes other, you know, it's a horrible thing.

But I mean, you wonder what happened to him that made him like this and then what happened, you know, I don't know. Yeah, it's all fucked up.

It's super fucked up.

Anyway, I like your movies. Thank you.

Yeah, I like the orange quite a bit. Yeah, I loved orange. Yeah, it was really good. It was really good.

And you're gonna make how many more of these in this series are you playing to make?

Oh, fuck. It's hard to make movies. It's really hard to make movies.

Especially on the level, like you put effort into those and the production and stuff. Like it was... they were good.

They were very high production value. Did you put those to a lot of festivals? No.

Oh, you should. Those would get into some. I thought so too. I submitted like to a handful. I got into cinema Columbus.

Yeah. I was like very, very, very proud of that. Yeah, that's great.

I would just say that I've been to a lot of film festivals and like a lot of the stuff I saw at these festivals was not on the caliber of what you made there.

I think I shot really, really high for these first couple of short films.

And the lesson learned in it was that it's probably not sustainable at the rate that we were going.

And so I had to go back to the drawing board and a lot of the people that helped me make these...

they're worth is just so much more than what I could offer.

And it just doesn't feel until I have proper funding. Yeah. It doesn't feel right.

Yeah. With those two films as your proof of concept, I think you could absolutely crowdsource and get money for those things.

Just saying. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So after all that, that we've just gone through, "ST, what brings you joy?"

I just really love making cool shit with people I love.

I think that that probably brings me like the greatest joy as well as super simple things like dinner parties.

I just really love dinner parties. Yeah, I've been to a dinner party for a long time.

I love like getting together and eating food. Yeah.

I love smoking a joint with a small dinner party. It's really a joint eating food, dancing with my headphones on, singing at the top of my lungs in my living room.

That brings me a lot of joy. I really love sewing.

I learned so through Columbus Parks and Rec. And I am obsessed. I'm obsessed.

What's the most impressive piece that you've made?

Well, I made a dress for myself, for my film festival that I was in this year.

Oh, nice.

I like that.

And then I did one rendition of it for the festival. And then I wore it later that season to a wedding.

And I completely altered it to be almost an entirely different dress.

And I think that that is the obsession. It's like, wow, I have the power to make these garments anything that I want them to be.

Also, it makes your wardrobe just much more eclectic and versatile because you can buy the fabric of a dress that's several sizes too large.

Add a thrift store and then fix it to fit you. And then it fits you like a glove.

So I don't often make anything from scratch. Like that's not really the thing.

It's the enjoyment of evolving something from what it was to something just magical.

Well, that's fun.

That fits you perfectly.

It's good to hear you have a lot of things that are bringing you joy.

Yeah.

That was a good list. Most of us struggle with that answer, but with there, they're like, "Oh, especially in these dark times."

I always think about what my magic is.

Okay.

My magic is I bring in spirit animals.

Oh.

And what I mean by that is I just really feel like I have some very strange animal encounters.

Okay.

That like not normally does this animal encounter human in this like way.

Right.

And then like through my meditation practices, I feel like between the real life encounters I have and then like my meditative states, I see animals like always.

Yeah. Just took back up. A spirit animal is some, an animal that comes in to give you a message.

Most people think their spirit animal is something that they are and it's like their identity for life.

That's more of a total animal. A total animal is with you for life.

A spirit animal is temporary. It comes in to give you a message.

This whole time I've been thinking about it all wrong.

I know. Right.

And then there's power animals. Power animals are animals that you can like call in.

I had no idea there was so many different like like a John Rose of animals.

I'm coming full circle here.

All right.

My current spirit animal is a spider and I was just journaling about the spider today.

So spiders of feminine creature.

She's representative of divine feminine.

Didn't know that.

But naturally she's a very patient creature. Right, traps men in her web. Well more specifically, as it relates to you. I was going to say... Right, right, right. Not just making sure. She casts and weaves a wide web and she's very patient and it takes a long time to create what she's doing. But she sits in weights.

So you are creating this podcast and through which you're casting a very wide net web. And I think the universe is going to respond to that.

I think so too and I hope so too. You just need to call in the power of spider. We'll see. It's also your main art form is editing, yes? Like you're an editor.

Yeah, I mean in a... Yeah, I mean I can tell a different story. Yeah, I'm going to mix up all your words to make a whole different thing.

No, no, no, no, I know. But like, but that's a huge part of this exercise. Yeah, but it's not what I'm doing. I'm not trying to... Everybody's got these stories that they hold on to and rarely do people have the opportunity to talk about them.

There's been interviews that I've done where people realize what this is, like about 30 minutes in. And you can see a relief that they can just talk and tell me what they've been thinking about and the story of this thing that happened or whatever it is.

And it really is... It's wonderful for both of us because it's like, yeah, it makes me feel good and it makes them feel like I want to tell my story and I've got somebody to tell it to.

You know, because everybody's got a story. Everyone has a story. And usually it's a good story. Because there are any questions that you feel like you've always wanted somebody to ask you but nobody ever has.

Or even just, is there a question that you want me to ask you in this podcast that I would never ask.

You would never ask.

Ask the question that you would never ask. Oh, are we doing that? Are we doing that?

I don't know what that question would be. What were you getting out your journal for, though?

You're going to think I'm crazy, but I mean, it's fine. I don't think anybody's crazy because if you're actually crazy yourself then you can't judge anybody else.

Okay, so we talked about...

I love this, that you've got a book of questions now that you're going to stress. It's going to be an eight hour long podcast. We got another bottle of wine.

Let's get to the... Let me roll the joint.

If there was a question that no one's ever asked you, and this was the question I wrote down at the end of my spider journaling.

Because, again, when a spirit animal comes in, I got a journal about it. I got a figure out what spiders are trying to tell me.

One of the prompts that I asked was, "What patterns do I express in my communication?"

So the question that no one's ever asked me, that I'm just dying for a podcast or to ask me is, "What patterns do you express in your communication?"

Okay, one second, hold on.

"SE, "What patterns do you express in your communication?"

So funny, bring that up, Jef.

Yeah, I know. I know. It's just a random question that usually have in the list.

I just wrote that down as a journal prompt.

Whoa, dude, that is wild. I was journaling about what spider spirit animal was coming in to tell me.

And she asked me, "SE, "What patterns do you express in your communication?"

And what did you say? Extended pause.

Trying to think of something really like that.

You don't have an answer. That's interesting.

I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.

All this build up and there's no answer.

Well, that was the last thing I thought about.

What patterns do I express in my communication?

I don't feel like this is a question I actually wanted people to ask you.

Because I feel like if there's a question you wanted people to ask you,

you would have an answer immediately.

Like what's your favorite color, whatever that is?

Well, you said, that I...

Oh, yeah, that was the problem.

What's a question that you wish to ask you?

Which people would ask you?

Which people would always ask you.

What's a question I wish people would ask me more often?

Yes, please tell me.

How are you?

Really?

I think that's a bad question.

Why?

Well, most of the time I get it via text.

No, I hate that.

That's...

Okay, I retract it on the phone or in person.

That's what I want to hear.

On a text, how can I possibly explain how I am in a text message?

Do you want to do it?

Exactly.

Do we just just detect for an hour now?

It's so overwhelming and I can't answer.

I'm good.

Yeah.

How are you?

Right. Exactly.

I'm just saying it's so stupid.

But same anxiety goes for asking it in person because

is someone asking me this because I actually want to know

or is someone asking me this?

And I think that that's also part of the question.

Well, we're such overthinkers to a degree.

It's insane.

Yeah, I feel you.

overthinking is my bread and butter and that spoke to me.

But what I will say is just asking the question to me is a lot of times just enough.

Intent doesn't matter because just saying how are you?

Because there's people I'll talk to on the phone sometimes and they'll tell me how they are

without even me prompting them and will not ever get to the point where I'm like,

"But how are you?"

And that...

it drives me a little nuts.

So how are you doing?

Thank you for asking, I see.

I'm doing all right.

I'm doing pretty well lately.

Yeah.

Why?

I mean, it's just...

it's been a good year.

It's been a year of discovery and a year of personal growth.

And a year of not having to work very much.

And I'm grateful for that.

So yeah, how are you?

I'm really happy to hear that.

I was actually thinking about that today.

I'm a friend who was just texting like that she was having some tests done at a hospital.

She asked for a ride home.

You know what I'm like?

Of course.

Yeah, I can give you a ride home.

But I was thinking both to be asked to like

be that friend but also to

see her for her vulnerability and asking, I don't know.

I just like...

No, I totally get the...

There's like tiny moments today that it was just really special.

Right.

Yeah, you know, the studies that come out about happiness

pretty much all say that the real key to happiness is helping other people.

Like the happiest people are the ones that help other people.

So like things like, you know, giving rides to people from the hospital,

giving rides to people to the airport.

These things are the things that really actually tend to bring people to most joy.

So yeah.

This is it.

All right, what do you think happens when you die?

I see it. I love that that you knew the question because you're a super fan.

You get a T-shirt.

Yeah.

You have a sticker.

Yeah, you know, hey, I...

when I met you at the film event

and you're starting this thing and then I saw you at a subsequent month.

At the fire station.

The music was pretty good.

Yeah, you're like...

I'd love for you to take a listen and I was like, yeah, I will.

And then I'll provide you feedback.

You didn't give me feedback.

I didn't give you feedback.

But I listened.

Right.

Which is pretty good.

No, really.

It's filtering.

The amount of content that's out there.

Our great at saying things we intend to do and sometimes not.

And there's so there's so much content.

How can you possibly?

Yeah.

But I wanted to listen because I knew you.

Right.

I'm like, oh, I know this person.

And then like, even cooler that it was interesting.

And now how much better do we know each other?

Yes.

I mean, we do.

We do.

Right.

Yeah, I'm like, it was just kind of super honored for you to ask me to be on this.

So I've been thinking about this question because

you always end your podcast.

I might mix it up with this question.

I think I like, given my spirit animal connection or given the fact that I do truly believe that like

everything, everything is alive and that we're all just like energy bodies.

It feels really fun to think that we've reincarnate into different things.

And to think about past lives of mine and knowing that I feel a connection to previous

people, I do feel like I come from like a long line of people prior to being any animals.

So I actually feel very good about the fact that like my most recent past lives are humans.

I think personally.

Sure.

I mean, do you have the only one who can speak to them?

I, but like, have you ever come across someone you're like, they were an animal in their past

life.

They're most recent past life.

That is a person that has gone from being an animal and now they're reincarnated as a human.

And you can tell right there have to be some because I feel like most men actually.

Oh, what is what's mine?

I don't know you well enough yet.

Oh, all right.

And I wouldn't say necessarily that you fall into an animal most recent past life.

But I think like women come from other people, but men typically reincarnate from an animal.

That works out with the mass because the math with reincarnation never worked out for me because

there's like so many more people that there would have to be, you know.

Yeah.

So what was your last incarnation?

I was an old man.

Oh, all right.

It came from what?

A lizard or something?

I was an old monk.

But you weren't an old monk the whole time.

You were young at one point in this.

Like are you suggesting that you can kind of just end up?

I can only access the old man in me.

All right.

I've met a lot of women who say that they are old men at heart.

And I think that's, I mean, I think that's a lot of us have the old.

You think that a lot of old men are being reincarnated?

I think we have a lot of old white men inside of us.

I'd be okay with me.

I'd be totally cool with being reincarnated into an old into a, into a younger woman.

If that's what happens.

If that's the cycle.

Yeah, if that's the cycle, I'll take it.

It'd be interesting to have like boobs and stuff.

You know.

I specifically was a monk though.

Like I was in a monastery.

Okay.

I wore a robe.

Oh, what color?

Grey.

Oh, red been hind.

Kind of very like

shire like a source of wisdom.

But I didn't actually understand why I had the wisdom I had.

I think it was like more like because I live this

monastery or monostatic life.

Is that a word?

Monkish monastery.

Yeah, something like that.

That's

I like kind of just knew the answers.

But I think that when I passed, I decided I need to go into a person's life

that is going to like live and see and experience it all.

You think you get to choose?

I think there is a choice as long as you you earn the choice.

I think there is like a spectrum of earning.

I mean, do you feel like the Buddhist thing we have to go around and round again

until you get it right and then you finally reach Nirvana?

I don't know what the Buddhist thing is.

Oh, it's like you continue to do life until you do it right.

And then when you do it right, then you achieve Nirvana.

Maybe it may be something like that.

I don't know if they come as you want.

Yeah, I do think like you you have to earn the right to choose your next life.

And I think that I think that the man that I was before was an honest good man.

He was just boring as fuck.

And he was like, I'm going to put myself in.

I know I'm going to be a woman.

You've thought a lot about this.

And she's going to live very interestingly.

She's going to turn people's oversized clothing into new clothes.

Because I've been confined to this fucking confessional box.

That would be a priest.

Yeah, I don't think I was a priest.

I feel like you're kind of making this up as you go, but that's fine.

It's not a problem.

Is that a problem?

No, this is what we call an act of imagination.

No, I, I, uh, and single by myself.

I let the podcast go wherever it goes.

We've talked about spirit animals.

No, we've gone there.

Yeah, you didn't ask what was the magic question you had for me?

Oh, yeah.

What's your magic?

What does that mean?

Oh, she shrugged.

She shrugged for anybody who was not able to see.

Because you're the only podcast she just did a shrug.

What is my magic?

I mean, that's an interesting question.

I think that lately, I'm good at trying to help people figure their shit out.

Like, I'm good at trying to give, I'm better at giving people advice about how to figure

their shit out than I am giving, taking my own advice.

You know what I mean?

This is a common thing, right?

Also, I can do some magic tricks.

So, yeah.

Wow.

I can show you when I got one downstairs.

Is it cards or?

No, it's a magic.

Rabbit out of hat.

It's like a rod with gems in it.

A rod with gems.

And that's going to wrap up the podcast.

Essie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

I really appreciate it.

It was wonderful to get to know you better and talk to you.

And thank you for sharing your story.

And I'm glad to know you.

You too, Jef.

Wow.

That was very convincing.

It sounded like you were terrified.

I'm happy.

I am having the realization of like, oh, fuck, we just talked for two hours.

Two and a half.

And what did I say?

Oh, man, you talked about all sorts of things.

Yeah.

No, you didn't say anything bad.

I don't think.

Anyway, we're going to do a more time.

Essie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Thanks, Jef, for having me on.

That's your line.

Something like that.

Yeah.

I like to end these kind of things.

We're going to try it.

We're going to try it again.

You're an actress.

An actress.

Yeah, yeah.

So we're going to try more time.

So that about does it for this episode of, okay, I got to take six.

All right.

So that about wraps it up.

Essie, thank you so much.

All right.

We'll try one more time.

I've never been more honored to be on the podcast before.

Oh, there you go.

I have never had the opportunity to share my story in this way.

And I am incredibly grateful for the present moment that we're in right now.

And your ability to have a conversation.

That was perfect.

That was perfect.

Thanks, Essie.

[Music]

So that ending, or I suppose all those endings,

is what happens when you share a bottle and a half of wine while recording a podcast.

Thank you again, Essie, for coming on and sharing your story.

It meant a lot to me.

And I really enjoyed our conversation, in spite of the darkness.

If you or someone you know has been affected by sexual abuse,

you can get help anytime through the National Sexual Assault Hotline

at 1-800-656-HOPE or on the internet at r-a-i-n-n.org.

You can follow Essie on Instagram @essielikethestar that's ESS-i-e,

like the star.

I'll put links to her films Orange and Red in the show notes.

And I highly recommend you check them out.

They're great.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram @onefjefpod.

And you can email the podcast with your questions, concerns, confusion,

show ideas, guest ideas, job offers, anything at all to onefjefpod@gmail.com.

I do have a bit of good news to share.

I got one new Patreon subscriber this week.

And that person is the coolest person of 2026 as far as I'm concerned.

If you too would like to be a cool person in 2026, to me at least, please don't dally.

Head straight to that Patreon page patreon.com/onefjef and sign up for as little as $5 a month.

In this economy, $5 means nothing.

It's like, oh I found $5 on the street.

What am I going to do with this?

I was going to throw it away, but oh I can give it to that guy for his podcast.

That's what we're talking about here.

$5 very little.

You can also donate $25 a month.

You can also donate $750 a month.

$825.

It's up to you.

And current Patreon subscribers, I love you very much.

And I'm going to leave you this week with a quote from the great thick nut, Han.

The Buddha taught me that there is no birth.

There is no death.

There is no coming.

There is no going.

There is no same.

There is no different.

There is no permanent self.

There is no annihilation.

We only think there is.

I'll see you next week.

Very good, Jeffrey.

[BLANK_AUDIO]