Shownotes
In this episode, Brian and Justin delve into one of the most fragile topic of your relationship with your clients — “trust”. They explore the most common pitfalls, such as misleading clients, poor communication, and taking advantage of situations. Justin shares real-world examples of how quickly trust can erode, even from something as simple as a billing error or failing to notify a client of a shipment delay.
They stress the importance of integrity, proactive communication, and taking responsibility for mistakes because trust is built over years and can be lost in seconds. Stay tuned to learn invaluable insights on maintaining long-term client relationships, how to avoid the common traps that could jeopardize your trust with clients.
The Logistics & Leadership Podcast, powered by Veritas Logistics, redefines logistics and personal growth. Hosted by industry veterans and supply chain leaders Brian Hastings and Justin Maines, it shares their journey from humble beginnings to a $50 million company. Discover invaluable lessons in logistics, mental toughness, and embracing the entrepreneurial spirit. The show delves into personal and professional development, routine, and the power of betting on oneself. From inspiring stories to practical insights, this podcast is a must for aspiring entrepreneurs, logistics professionals, and anyone seeking to push limits and achieve success.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Preview
(00:37) - Trust is fragile
(02:25) - Most common reason for losing trust
(04:08) - Importance of timely communication during breakdown scenarios
(07:07) - Dealing with emergencies while maintaining trust with integrity
(10:55) - Long-Term Consequences of a Bad Reputation
(12:00) - Taking Responsibility and Extreme Ownership
(14:00) - Improper Invoicing
(16:34) - Coming up…
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Transcripts
A lot of folks fail and a lot of folks like lose that trust.
Speaker A:Right where, you know, that's on today's episode, that's what we're talking about is how do you, how do you lose that trust with a client?
Speaker A:You know, cutting corners, taking advantage of situations.
Speaker A:5:30 on a Friday.
Speaker A:Yes, it's after hours, but at the same time you, you know, this client has been so valuable to yourself and the company, you know, you want to build that long term partners trust can take so many years to build, but in a matter of seconds it can be lost.
Speaker A:On today's episode, we're going to go over numerous ways to lose trust with a specific client.
Speaker A:Justin, we prospect some of these customers, some of these shippers for months, years.
Speaker A:In some scenarios, we start doing business with them.
Speaker A:We start, you know, continuing to build that trust with some of these clients.
Speaker A:What are some of the ways that we, that we actually lose trust?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you definitely don't have trust off the bat, especially with a cold call in logistics when they're getting calls constantly.
Speaker B:So you're, you know, you said at the start, but like trust takes so much time to build up, but it can so easily be lost.
Speaker B:And there's a number of things that you can do.
Speaker B:And I would start off by first saying like you mislead or lie to a client or prospect, early on, your trust is gone.
Speaker B:But if you also have that same reputation down the road, let's say you've been working with them for years and you start to get this reputation of misleading them or lying or cutting corners, that trust is gone and you are very easily replaced in this industry.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think, I mean we were talking about a little bit off camera, but we're dealing with customers nationwide, sometimes worldwide.
Speaker A:And you know, even gaining that trust from somebody that's in Denver, Colorado, and we're a thousand miles away, I think that's hard initially, especially from, you know, the start of the relationship.
Speaker A:And like you said, over years or over a certain amount of years, you build that.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, within a matter of hell, we say seconds.
Speaker A:Sometimes it, you know, it's a little bit longer than that where, you know, they end up losing trust in us and we lose the business and we lose a potential client.
Speaker A:What are some things that you've seen from brokers, from other salespeople, other companies that they've done to cut some of those corners?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's a lot of things and I think what it boils down to is it's often overused but you have to have integrity.
Speaker B:We talk about all the time, but a lot of times you have to choose the harder right or the easier wrong, even if it means you're taking on the chin.
Speaker B:I would say what's most common is, you know, brokers will get themselves in a situation and they'll shove the shovel into the ground and dig and they'll start digging and then they'll just keep digging as opposed to just being up front, taking responsibility and say, hey, I screwed up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, whether a carrier, you know, burned you and now you're dealing with the issue, or you truly made a mistake, be honest and upfront about that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I can't tell you how many times, you know, we've been in situations where, you know, we were just upfront about it and like, hey, we screwed up, we made a mistake here.
Speaker B:I probably shouldn't say how many times, but it happens.
Speaker A:It does happen at the machines.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:They break down.
Speaker B:You make mistakes and you're upfront about it immediately.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And what happens?
Speaker B:The client thanks you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially when you bring a solution to them.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I would say, you know, have integrity, don't mislead them and be upfront about issues.
Speaker B:Do you have any examples, Brian, of misleading a client or shoving that shovel into the ground?
Speaker B:Tell us more there.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:So I think one thing I was going to mention was this is a scenario in our industry that I see it all the time.
Speaker A:Not anymore, today.
Speaker A:Because we are perfect and nothing ever.
Speaker B:Yeah, we don't make mistakes either.
Speaker A:Zero mistakes.
Speaker A:But it's a shipment that picks up on a Tuesday, delivers on a Friday, and the driver picks up and then he has a breakdown on Wednesday.
Speaker A:And the broker, the salesperson, fails to tell that client of the breakdown.
Speaker A:Oh, no problem.
Speaker A:I'll get it fixed.
Speaker A:It's no problem.
Speaker A:He finds out at 10am on Wednesday.
Speaker A:The load is due Friday morning at, we'll call it Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker A:He does not tell that customer.
Speaker A:Now at 3:00 that truck's not fixed.
Speaker A:And he might have forgot.
Speaker A:He might have not told the customer.
Speaker A:Not maybe maliciously or hiding information, but he just forgets.
Speaker A: ursday morning, The driver is: Speaker A:There's no way in hell he's going to make it on Friday morning.
Speaker A:And the customer comes back and they say, hey, when did you find out?
Speaker A:Oh, I found out at 10am Wednesday.
Speaker A:Now, like to me that trust or that communication is lost from the broker to the client.
Speaker A:So I see that happen all the time.
Speaker A:And I think the advice that I can see after, you know, 15 years of the industry is if something happens, shoot off an email.
Speaker A:Hell, it takes, you know, five seconds.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be long or elaborate or, you know, go into, you know, I don't know half the stuff that happens with these drivers.
Speaker A:You know, they're talking about turbos and sensors and, I don't know, I.
Speaker A:Leaks.
Speaker B:There's leaks everywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Air leaks in a trailer.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:I don't really know.
Speaker A:I mean, I've heard.
Speaker A:I've learned more over the years, but, you know, I'm essentially, we're communication specialists where we're communicating that information from the driver to the client, letting them know of a situation.
Speaker A:I always try to relate it like this.
Speaker A:And some.
Speaker A:Some salespeople don't truly get this, but it's like if you're.
Speaker A:You're expecting an Amazon package to get there on Friday and you need this product for the weekend, Right.
Speaker A:Maybe it's, you know, we'll say we're right in the middle of this as his parents, but, you know, a kid needs shin guards for his game on Saturday, right?
Speaker A:And now if.
Speaker A:If I order him from Amazon and I'm expecting them to be there Friday for the game at 9am Saturday.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden, and all of a sudden on Friday morning at 6am I get a note from Amazon saying, hey, we can't deliver it.
Speaker A:Now I'm pissed off.
Speaker A:He's got a game at nine.
Speaker A:I got no shin guards.
Speaker A:You know, the local Dick Sporting Goods isn't open.
Speaker A:I can't even go anywhere.
Speaker A:I gotta go down the street and ask a neighbor or something.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So if you would have known on Wednesday that the shipment was gonna be delayed, okay, now I can go to Dick's and I can probably cancel this order or return it whenever I get it.
Speaker A:So I think even looking at it from that perspective, from a consumer side of it, knowing on the front end is a huge thing.
Speaker A:So I feel like as far as the trust and the communication piece, what are some scenarios you've seen that are, you know, pretty common?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:I want to get back to like, building that trust too, when it's just that you have that consistent proactive communication and execution where they know, hey, if, you know, Brian's taking care of this, it's done, it's off my plate, he'll communicate, there's issues.
Speaker B:But other than that, that thing is going to, you know, it's going to be there on time.
Speaker B:Yeah, you do that so many times they know what to expect.
Speaker B:But then you throw in these curveballs where it's like, makes them question.
Speaker B:And what I'm getting to is, let's say they're in a tight spot and you've bailed them out before in the past, but you know, this time it makes them like kind of turn their head a little bit where they feel like you're taking advantage of a situation.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And I've seen this too.
Speaker B:And you know, we're in sales.
Speaker B:I'm not going to say, you know, you should always get paid.
Speaker B:Your words, especially if you're working after hours or holiday or, you know, three in the morning, whatever it may be.
Speaker B:But there's a difference between, you know, getting paid like a fair amount and taking advantage of a situation.
Speaker B:And too often than not, brokers will take advantage of a situation and quickly lose trust.
Speaker B:So I'll give you an example.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was going to say dig in there a little bit more, man.
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, this.
Speaker B:I'll give you a recent example.
Speaker B:We had a client very close with them, gives me a call on my way home.
Speaker B:It's, you know, it's 5:30, you know, got three kids, wife at home.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you know, I'm, Hey, Mr.
Speaker B:Prosser or Mr.
Speaker B:Klein, I'm heading home.
Speaker B:Let me jump on.
Speaker B:Give me a few minutes.
Speaker B:I'll try to get our team on it, but I'll call you right back.
Speaker A:Regardless.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, they had a fallout.
Speaker B:They had to get this, you know, transfer out and delivered because it's, you know, Friday at 5:30.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So I get home, we ended up finding a truck to bail out this other carrier that fell out.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And if, let's say the truck was at five grand and I said like.
Speaker A:Price to the customer.
Speaker B:So like, if I'm going to pay that, that, that driver 5 grand, and this is a Friday at 5:30.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Market rate, let's say, is 45.
Speaker B:And I go back to Mr.
Speaker B:Client, I said, Mr.
Speaker B:Client, you know, I got a truck here for, for seven grand.
Speaker B:I'll go ahead and send them in if that's, that's good for you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And now I'm charging him, you know, $2,500 or $2,000 over truck rate.
Speaker B:They're a really good client.
Speaker B:We have a great relationship with them.
Speaker B:Do I really need for 10 minutes of my time, 15 minutes of my time?
Speaker B:Do I really need to throw a $2,500 margin or $2,000 margin on this when I just worked for 15 minutes and my team did have to work.
Speaker B:No, I'm not trying to burn them and put them in a spot where, you know, now his boss is like, why did you pay Veritas that much money?
Speaker B:Like, that's how you lose trust and that's taking advantage of the situation.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:But a lot of times I'll say, I'll say, hey, like I'll send them an email or a screenshot and I'll say, hey, Mr.
Speaker B:Client, like the truck is expensive.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:He's at this.
Speaker B:What I would typically charge for this situation is 800 to $1,000.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:That work for you?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:And can you do 750?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'll do 750 for you.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:But like, I'm building that trust and not taking advantage of the situation because I care about their needs and I want to make sure I get that taken care of.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's, I mean, I think you nailed it, man.
Speaker A:I think that's where a lot of folks fail and a lot of folks, like, lose that trust.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Where, you know, that's on today's episode.
Speaker A:That's what we're talking about is how do you, how do you lose that trust with a client?
Speaker A:You know, cutting corners, taking advantage of situations.
Speaker A:5:30 on a Friday.
Speaker A:Yes, it's after hours, but at the same time, you, you know, this client has been so valuable to yourself and the company.
Speaker A:You know, you want to build that long term partnership just like any, any relationship out there.
Speaker A:It's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's also on the carrier side too.
Speaker B:You know, you don't, you have a reputation.
Speaker B:You don't want that to become part of your culture.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we've seen that, We've seen that before.
Speaker B:You know, our early years at tql, we battled that.
Speaker B:That reputation where every carrier thought we're screwing them over.
Speaker B:Every shipper just was like, oh God, I recognize that number.
Speaker B:And we, we were to, you know, when we were there to overcome that reputation.
Speaker B:And they did a good job with that.
Speaker B:But you don't want that to be part of your reputation where it's like a Veritas can take advantage of you.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, Veritas going to burn you.
Speaker B:They're not going to pay any detention, layover.
Speaker B:They don't give a shit about carriers.
Speaker B:Same on the shipper side.
Speaker B:Like, word gets around.
Speaker B:This industry is well connected.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you start getting the reputation where, you know, you're kind of sleazy and you're going to Cut corners, take advantage, live, whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Good luck closing business from that point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you, I mean, are there other ways that we can think of from a trust perspective in logistics with a, you know, client facing side of it that, you know, that aren't commonly talked.
Speaker B:About as far as losing trust?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Brian, I would say, like, at the end of the day, if you're looking to place blame on someone else, you're already in the wrong mindset.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you, one of your favorite books is Jocko's book Extreme Ownership.
Speaker B:And it says a lot about you because you live this same, same, same lifestyle, but you're always the one that's willing to take responsibility for anyone else's actions.
Speaker A:I tell you what, man, I don't know if I fully have that mastered yet, but I think it was hard early.
Speaker A:Man, when I read that book, I'm like, what?
Speaker A:Like, no, hold on, that's not my fault.
Speaker A:You know, like, but like reading it and trying to like fully subscribe to that, I feel like you're, you know, very similar where it's like, okay, well, you know what, I'll take the heat for this and let's figure out a solution.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, real example from this past week, we had a couple billing issues where some shipments were routed incorrectly going to Oregon and they're supposed to go to California.
Speaker B:And you know, before we were able to adjust anything in the shipments, their invoice, and this is a high volume account, but, you know, we didn't catch it.
Speaker B:And we were upfront, we said, hey, these are issues.
Speaker B:You know, once they got invoice, we were like, hey, disregard these.
Speaker B:We're working on it.
Speaker B:But we had a couple of discrepancies with a newer client, high volume client.
Speaker B:And, and so at the end of the day, it's not our team's fault.
Speaker B:It was my fault.
Speaker B:So, you know, talking to the main point of contact, it's, you know, the conversation is just, hey, these are the mistakes and here's why they happen, you know, and we, he wanted to have a conversation about why these things happen.
Speaker B:And I was very transparent about it.
Speaker B:It's my responsibility to make sure our team has the tools and the capabilities to make sure these things don't happen.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And it's our responsibility to make sure that these things aren't getting invoiced and they're being audited and there's a number of checks and balances in place.
Speaker B:So it's not our team, it's not accounting, it's not the computer's fault.
Speaker B:It's my fault in that situation because I was responsible for our team.
Speaker A:Well, and I think, you know, I love that approach.
Speaker A:I also think, like, when we talk about mistakes or ways to lose trust with a client, you know, we haven't talked about this in a while, but invoicing properly.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:There are so many clients out there that we've heard that say, you know what, we cut out, you know, XYZ broker due to the fact they couldn't bill us correctly.
Speaker A: five grand, and then you bill: Speaker A:We're over billing that client automatically.
Speaker A:That's going to lose trust.
Speaker A:Same thing goes if I, you know, agree to the person that cuts my lawn, which, like, I love cutting my lawn.
Speaker A:And it was like a big decision in my life, like three years ago to outsource that.
Speaker B:I'll never give it up.
Speaker A:I got, I got that push mower.
Speaker A:I lost a hubcap.
Speaker A:It's like ratchety old mower.
Speaker A:But I had to give it up a couple years ago and I.
Speaker B:Tough decision.
Speaker A:I know I've been thinking about getting like a rider the last couple anyway.
Speaker A:But even the situation, if I outsource my lawn for this company to mow my lawn, and we agree on a rate of $50 per cut, and then they invoice me 75, I'm losing trust automatically.
Speaker A:Man, I'm.
Speaker A:Hold on a second.
Speaker A:Hey, you said $50.
Speaker A:We had the agreement in my driveway.
Speaker A:You know, we signed the agreement or you said it in an email, and then all of a sudden they bill me 75.
Speaker A:Like that, to me is like the ultimate way to lose trust, especially for a client.
Speaker A:On the, on the financials and the numbers.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I'm with you there.
Speaker B:And we see it, you know, very often with, you know, you know, from.
Speaker B:We hear from prospects and clients.
Speaker B:You know, yeah, I get nickel, nickel and dimes all the time.
Speaker B:And it's, you know, we sell against that.
Speaker B:Hey, if we quote you this, that's what's going to be on your invoice.
Speaker B:Besides, when we over.
Speaker B:Over invoice on four shipments.
Speaker A:Four shipments.
Speaker B:But a quick recap, you know, biggest ways to lose trust, Failure to take responsibility.
Speaker B:What do you got?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think failure to take responsibility, doing what you say you're going to do.
Speaker A:Hey, I'm going to do these things 1, 2, and 3, make sure that you do those as a salesperson, as a sales leader.
Speaker A:Also taking extreme ownership and not placing blame on other people.
Speaker A:I think those are huge factors to building that trust over time.
Speaker A:And I think it's, you know, trust in anything, any relationship out there.
Speaker A:It's built over time and can be lost in seconds.
Speaker B:On our next episode, we're going to talk about, you know, a situation that we're currently in that may be pretty costly, may lose a little bit of trust, but we're going to navigate it and we're going to share that story with.