At first I was going to simply just write about my love of Phil Alden Robinson's spy thriller, Sneakers (1992), but then I decided it was time to start recording my voice again in hopes of returning to our regularly scheduled program next month. Since I needed something to lift my spirits, I asked friend and Chicago Film Critic Erik Childress to join me to talk for 2 hours all about a movie that means a lot to me. Another "Jim and his dad love this movie" example.

Instead of only talking about why it's so great as a bonus episode, I thought a feature-length commentary track was in order, something I haven't done since recording last year with Bill Ackerman for the 4K release of At Close Range, another all-time favorite that I'd consider to be underrated. Erik was kind enough to take time out of his busy schedule to play a game a Scrabble, hop inside an unmarked van and wire-tap a mathematician in order to get our voyeuristic kicks. Even if you're not a fan or don't own this film to listen along as the film plays, feel free to simply just listen us nerd out for a couple hours about this all-star ensemble cast killing it every step of the way. It's a prescient film that has a lot to say and manages to be a blast the whole way through. Grateful to Erik and hope you enjoy what we have to say here!

00:00 - 05:31 - Intro

05:32 - 02:11:17 - Commentary Track

02:11:18 - 02:17:59 - Outro

Sam.

Hi, my name is Jim Laszkowski.

My voice is my passport.

Verify me.

Or rather, my name is Jim Laszkowski.

Directors Club is my podcast.

And after about a three month break, I am back with something very special here.

Get out your Scrabble tiles, a discreet unmarked van, and your 49ers cap, because this is a bonus episode and that is no longer a secret.

As much as I would have loved to have assembled maybe an entire team of hackards and wizards to join me, I managed to ask one of my dear friends and favorite Chicago film critics, the host of Movie Madness, the co host of the Friendship Dilemma, and an all around true blue cinephile, the one and only Eric Childress.

Welcome back, man.

Thank you, man, for having me.

Appreciate it.

Absolutely.

So we're, we're here to discuss and provide another live commentary track.

We did this in the past for the Last Starfighter and Cloak and Dagger too, right?

If memory serves.

Yes.

So kind of veering away from the video game theme a little bit, but.

But still in the tech world.

Yes, yes, exactly.

And courtesy of the same writing team of War Games, which is interesting.

Like, I was looking at, you know, their, their filmography, and it's true of the director.

Not, not a whole lot to their credit, a lot of producing, but certainly it's just interesting to see the.

I don't want to say just, oh, they just never, you know, successfully collaborated again after, you know, a certain period of time.

But it's wild to think, like it did take them a long time to complete this script for Sneakers after doing War Games, but.

Yeah, you know, go ahead.

Yeah, no, I'm just, I was just thinking about, like, because, like, this is a screenplay.

We'll get into this.

Like, that goes back, you know, even like pre war games.

Yeah.

Or I'll talk about it a little bit at the beginning here.

But it's just.

Yeah, there's, there's, there's.

I hope there's a lot to talk about.

I think there is between the two of us.

So.

Yeah.

And, and again, I was listening to the, the commentary between the writers and the director, and they find themselves so wrapped up in the movie that sometimes they don't talk, which I always find.

That we're gonna try to avoid.

Yeah.

Because those commentaries that I hate are the ones where people start, you know, I don't mind if they're laughing.

You know, I enjoy a good Kurt Russell, John Carpenter commentary, but, you know, I don't like dead air during the commentary.

So we'll try to keep that avoid that as much as possible.

So right after a film like the Conversation and before Enemy of the State and a couple of years before Hackers, there was this little movie called Sneakers.

And you know, instead of just doing like a big preamble and going, hey, what was your first time and your first experience?

We're gonna do that in the actual film.

So I just want to get things rolling here because it is a two hour film and we're just excited.

I am very excited to hear what Eric has to say because unfortunately, I did miss when you hosted a screening of this.

And God, I would have loved to have been there for that because it's a movie that I adore and haven't seen on the big screen.

But at the same time, it's, it's, it's had a nice cult following behind it.

And even upon doing more research, I was surprised to read and find some middling reviews and even, well, talk a little bit about my partner's impressions of the film.

It's just because she had.

It wasn't necessarily like a full blown negative reaction.

She's like, I've seen this kind of stuff before.

It wasn't anything that blew her mind.

But I also, you know, brought to her attention that I don't want to say, like, oh, you know, a lot of the movies that I end up doing commentary tracks for are fueled by like, I've seen this 30 times or I have nostalgia for it, or it was a connection that I had with my dad and all that.

So there's, there's a lot of reasons why now watching it today, I can go, maybe you can critique this, critique that.

But I can't.

It's just not in my DNA.

Well, hopefully logged our current re watch of this.

We will discover exactly why this one stands apart from a lot of the movies that she might have been thinking that she's seen before.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

So, everybody, let's do this.

If everybody can get out their copy and pause two seconds in the second you see the light peering around the earth for the Universal logo, hit pause.

That way you can sync up your copy of Sneakers with us.

I will count us down and then about two seconds in, you're gonna hear two huge fans of this really special film and about what it means to us.

So sync up your copy, right?

And I will count us down from three, you hit play, and then you're gonna join us on this cinematic journey.

Or you can just simply just treat this as a podcast and listen along.

I know, folks, just do that without even watching the movie, especially if they're very familiar with the movie and they've watched it 30 times like I have, so that's an option as well.

But here we go, everybody.

I'm gonna count you down right now.

Three, two, one, play.

All right, so where to begin with sneakers?

Obviously, I'm curious about your first experience watching it and what you thought.

My first experience.

It's one of more memorable experiences I had just because it was a fluke, honestly.

We were two friends, two co workers that I worked with at my first job of video store.

These.

These credits are lovely.

Oh, yeah, Anagrams, we love them.

A little.

Little puzzles.

Just a little.

Get your neurons going right at the beginning here, try to put this together.

A few laughs.

But no, we were.

We were going to see a comedy show, actually.

The comedian Jake Johansson was in town to do it.

A little comedy club, I think Naperville, Aurora, something like that.

Chicago, outside of Chicago.

And I was only 17 at the time, and that didn't stop me before from seeing, actually, Bill Hicks live, uh, in person.

Wow.

Yeah.

Uh, that was.

You know, that's a whole other story.

But then you immediately went and did mushrooms right after.

Because I did not.

Yeah, I did not.

Uh, but I couldn't get it.

They would not let me in because I wasn't 18, and this was a smaller comedy club.

It was in the suburbs, not the city.

And I was completely bummed because I basically blew the evening for my two friends and co workers, and they just kind of tried to cheer me up.

Oh, there's the clock tower, by the way.

Yeah, you know, that.

Yeah, that.

That.

That courthouse looks quite familiar.

I don't know where I've seen it before.

Little snowy right now, but pretty, if you're paying attention, is a Universal movie.

This, that.

That kind of shot on the same lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So anyway, so we ended up there.

There, sort of like, I. I was completely bummed out.

They're just like, well, let's just.

We'll just go see a movie.

Let's let.

Let make the evening destroy.

Throw it away.

And it was opening night of movie, this movie Sneakers.

And we went to the Woodfield one and two, the big theater, and watch this movie.

And man, did.

It was like the best, like, breath of fresh air, surprise.

We weren't expecting a whole lot out of it, but we walked out so enthusiastic after watching it.

Like, that movie.

Did it.

Did you think you were going into a movie about shoes?

I did not.

No.

I. I do at Least one thing I'll say is that I'm not the biggest fan of the title.

I don't, I don't know, it doesn't really say much about the movie and I don't know if it was marketed very effectively.

You know, just even the post market.

Tagline, it was marketed as a thriller too.

I mean, I think that's the thing that really surprises is that we were not expecting it to be as funny and as lighthearted right as it was.

I mean, it certainly delivers as far as the thriller is concerned.

But I, I do have to say right at the top here that the casting of these two actors.

No.

As young, Young Redford and young Kingsley are like some of the best young casting I have ever seen in a movie.

I completely agree.

I know, like, it's up there with like the young Leota Pesi from Goodfellas.

I mean, that's, that's a whole other topic to think.

Think of this.

But like, I mean, you watch this and just like, my God, where do they find these guys?

You know, you know, who helped consult them on the little sleight of hand, of course, was the great Ricky J.

That he stopped by and helped them out with.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

Oh, James Horner's score, everybody.

One of my all time favorites.

And it gets stuck in my head.

And now that I've watched this a couple of times in prep for this, I'm like.

And yeah, the saxophonist or the hope and the oboe.

Yeah, like Brand.

Brand Marsalis.

I mean, the, it's.

The Marcellus work in this movie is what always stands out to me.

I mean, hoarders.

I mean, you could recognize hoarder score because, you know, he, you know, he does tend to recycle this stuff over the years, you know, from before this and even after this.

But not that it's not enjoyable, but it's Marcellus's like that jazzy feel that you got.

It just kind of just.

It's like a war bath in a way, watching this movie and just kind of, kind of like a sit back and just.

Yeah, it's just, it's, it's water.

This is a, you know, a great little opening here, establishing these two characters and how it'll eventually, you know, come back and haunt the Martin Bryce character.

Yeah, you think you think about this, like, you know, you think about friends in your life.

Idealists, you know, want to change the world.

They talk about and.

And one of them, you know, gets arrested and, well, so we assume dies in prison and the other one goes on the run for the rest of his life.

And now we begin the very conversation, like intrigue here where it's the thing I love about this movie, especially watching it again and again was just kind of like there's a lot of just misdirection thrown at you throughout where it sets up an expectation and it turns out to be something completely different.

And, you know, even.

Even here and you're talking about, like, you know, the fact that this was, you know, marketed more as a thriller and you're expecting the thrills, and it does bring that.

But the camaraderie between all these guys in this, you know, contained environment is just so incredibly infectious.

I mean, like, I, I've.

I want to hang out with these guys, you know, like, they don't.

They.

They're nerds and they totally endear themselves to you and to the audience.

And they're all distinctive.

That's the thing I think I really appreciate too is, like, it's not a case of someone like Kevin Smith writing where almost every character speaks the same language.

Everybody here is very different.

And I love that.

Yeah, they're defined by their traits.

And, you know, you might say that, you know, they each have one specific trailer.

Aykroyd is obviously the conspiracy guy.

And, you know, Kreese has got a CIA background to him, but again, just like the humor immediately right off the bat here, the, the.

They're laid it out that, you know, these guys are.

They're a great team, they're comfortable with each other, but they do kind of get on each other's nerves a little bit too.

At least the Ackroyd character certainly does.

And you got.

Here's the funny thing, like all this whole team.

And you could throw in Mary McDonald, who will be introduced to later.

All of these actors, with the exception of one at the time, Oscar nominees.

Oh, that's right.

Or winners.

You know, some of them, obviously, you know, Redford had won and Kingsley had won.

Poitier obviously had won, but only one person, and that person would eventually get a nomination many years later, and that would be David Strathairn.

Oh, yeah, and it's pretty wild too.

I kind of randomly, on a day off, threw on Mate one because I hadn't seen that in a long time.

And I was just curious about revisiting it since Criterion Put it out fairly recently.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, there's, like, so many people from sneakers in this.

Well, three.

Three main ones, for sure.

Here's a little.

Here's a little blackface gag for.

The great River Phoenix, who was just coming off of my Own Private Idaho.

And kind of like, since that movie really got to him and it was.

Affected him deeply, and he was so, like, emotionally involved in every aspect of that story, he actively sought out something lighter for him to do.

And I'm kind of glad.

It's nice to just see him having fun.

And it's similar with Redford, too, because, like, Sharon, my partner, was like, I don't know about Redford.

He just always seems so smug.

And I have a hard time, you know, getting on board with him because, like, yeah, he just comes across that way.

And I was kind of like, but he's.

Look at.

He just tripped and fell.

You know, he's that Mr.

Confident throughout this whole movie.

No, there's.

There's a great balance that he brings.

Like, Redford is so good at, you know, for lack of a better term, light comedy.

Yeah, just moments throughout this movie where it's.

It's just.

It's.

It's like, just like, north of ridiculous a little bit.

Like, you know, you establish a character like that by having them trip over the thing.

And that's kind of a, you know, too old for the kind of gag.

But.

But it shows that, you know, these guys are.

They're professionals and they know what they're doing, but they're not, you know, immune from stupid mistakes and things.

And Redford balances that throughout this movie because, again, you'll see these.

Of these moments of light comedy, but there are moments there where he has to turn on the intelligence.

It has to be the idealist version of Redford that we've seen in movies over the years.

We'll get that with what he has seen with Ben Kingsley later.

Yeah, for sure.

It's just.

It's like Three Days of the Condor is a buddy picture almost, you know, and it's.

I think that's kind of what I love about it.

Yeah.

And just to go back to that opening scene, I mean, Redford in Three Days of the Condor, his character goes out for sandwiches and comes back to the.

To the massacre of his.

You know, his.

Where he works, and here he goes out for pizza, and his best friend gets arrested.

Well, I just had this weird feeling that my money wasn't safe here anymore.

Yeah.

And again, I just love the Mis.

Yeah, exactly.

I was just gonna say the same thing.

Yeah.

It seems like.

Like they just pulled off, like, a little bank heist here.

But then, you see, he goes up there and we find out exactly what this crew is up to.

And there's a.

They get a.

He gets a real.

It's a great little moment of writing, but just like, the snest remark he gets from the person who cuts his check in a moment here is just like.

Like, wow, that was some unnecessary shade, I think.

Yeah.

Here we go.

Little exposition here.

Places.

Make sure no one can break into their places.

It's a living.

Damn.

Makes me think of the Jerry Seinfeld line.

You're a cashier.

Yeah.

Wow.

But, you know, and it's.

There's, you know, coming up, there is a little bit of an exposition dump, but it's not.

I don't know.

The way they handle it, I think is appropriate given the situation that they find themselves in.

But I just love that this movie starts out with them doing their job and you get to know them through action and not just like, oh, let's explain everybody who.

What they do and what they.

What they are.

So that's just a great way to set up and kind of show people being good at their job, but also, like you mentioned, you know, being imperfect.

Timothy Busfield going through things right now.

Yeah, unfortunately, that was a little.

Little.

Little icky.

It's a little.

Yeah, yeah, it's more than that.

Unfortunate.

Yeah, that's.

I. I had to do a screening of Ferris Bueller for an.

For an author who wrote an entire book on Ferris Bueller.

And I'm just like, all right, somebody asked a question about Jeffrey Jones and where his career went, and we were like, let's move on.

Yeah.

Just remember that Timothy Busfield has played a character not played Timothy Busfield in this movie.

Yes, exactly.

That's.

That's the way to look at it.

I mean, since you went back, you mentioned, like, the start of.

Of this.

I mean, the screenplay that you talked about in the intro.

The.

It was first, you know, brought to Lord Glasgow and Walter Parks were working on board games.

Right.

And they were doing.

And they were doing research for it, and they discovered that there were, like, kid programmers who worked at IBM who were known as Sneakers.

So that's.

That's where the title comes from.

And they were at a computer convention in Chicago and they started, like, asking around, you know, about sneakers.

And they were.

They're basically, you know, for, you know, what we know now as Black Hatters.

You know, they were.

They were hackers, basically.

And that's where sort of like, the.

The impetus for the story began.

Yeah.

And it's.

They were like these tiger teams of security consultants that would do what we see them do in the beginning that just, like, test out security.

And I guess, like, their initial idea or their pitch was like, you know, like Dirty Dozen with computer hackers, you know, and it's kind of, I don't know, like an interesting way to start thinking about how to, you know, incorporate all of this.

And it's just funny, too, we missed, like, them talking about River Phoenix's character.

It's a nice callback to War Games.

Right.

Because he was caught hacking into the school's computer trying to change his grades.

Yeah.

So, like, I like it when they do little Easter eggs like that for fans who.

You know, again, like, at the time when this first came out, it's not like you can do research and figure all this stuff out the way we can today, but it's.

It's just kind of cute.

I like that stuff.

Yeah.

And this is.

I mean, this is nine years after War Games.

Not that people have forgotten about War Games at the time, but, I mean, it was.

I mean, that was a huge, huge movie when I was growing up, just, you know, committed to my own knowing, learning about computers and also my fear of nuclear war.

That was a pretty big movie when I.

When I was growing up.

So.

Yeah, so you got a little expos.

Exposition dump here.

Word to background on all the characters.

And you do that through basically their, you know, their intelligence dossier.

Yeah.

And that's.

That doesn't make my eyes roll.

I think that's actually a great way to do it.

I think it's a great way to introduce all these characters.

You know, here's a little Redford joke here.

Yeah, that's.

That wasn't in the original script.

That.

I mean, maybe they put those posters there, but still.

Yeah, that was.

That was nice.

Yeah.

This is before the night.

Became president.

And, folks, you should pay attention.

I know it's an odd thing to think about, but pay attention to Timothy Busfield's hair and how it changes later on in the film because it was a deliberate decision on his part to, like, have this kind of hairstyle for, you know, a representative of the government or the NSA to almost, like, mirror the way Robert Redford looks.

And then later on in the film, when we find out, you know, who he really is, his Hair is all slicked back, just like Cosmo.

Yeah, it's true.

We should.

Yeah, we should draw more attention to Tiffany Busfield, by the way.

Just for people.

The only thing.

The only thing I'll bring up when.

In regards to his character.

No, it's.

It's a.

It's a great little.

We don't know what CTEC stands for.

The good cop, bad cop routine they got going here.

This is the actor Eddie Jones, right?

Who is it?

You know, he.

He, you know, went after dad Aykroyd another movie some years ago.

Same years.

Same year's War Games, actually.

He's, uh, the cop in traded places that, uh.

Take off his clothes.

Yeah, that's right.

Of course,.

The FBI can't work for us without approval from a congressional oversight committee.

We don't have the time, so.

Why?

Frankly, because.

Yeah.

I mean, and also, you know, what.

What you were talking about earlier, just about, like, having these ideals when you're younger, watching it now, it really is.

It really highlights this idea of a movie about aging to some degree and how someone like Redford, even in this profession, is trying to continue his ideals.

But also the outside world can corrupt it through influence the government, organized crime, or broken relationships or just.

Yeah, like a past that you can't escape from entirely.

And here it's about to kind of like, bite him in the ass in a way to where he's obligated to do this job.

Yeah, I mean, we just.

We're just coming off a year where, you know, one of the best movies.

I mean, for Pipe, for both of us.

The best movie of last year was one battle after another.

Oh, yeah.

So I'm kind of curious, like, I mean, which is a movie all about, you know, the idealism of your youth and you're trying to change the world.

And then you do have a kid and you grow up and you have to kind of leave that behind.

But the past is not gonna let.

Let that happen for you.

And I. I bet PT is.

PTA is a fan of this movie.

I. I would.

I would imagine so.

He's an insane fan as well, he should be of Midnight Run too.

So, like, you know, I think those types of movies, like, they're just so rewatchable and, you know, they speak to, like, our generation, I think, and certainly PTA as well.

Yeah, they're just like, good movies with good characters and, you know, like, it doesn't skimp on the entertainment.

It doesn't skimp on the action or just the set pieces or getting you really involved in a major way.

That's what I really love about this film in particular too, is that, you know, I know that someone like Evert really emphasized, like, that this is thin or, you know, not everything comes together in a satisfying way or something.

But to me, it's the complete opposite experience.

And I felt that was when I first watched this.

My dad and I rented this from the video store just based on the cast not knowing a whole lot about it.

I mean, I would assume I must have seen the Siskel and Ebert review of it, and maybe I kind of dismissed it and didn't, like, make it a priority until we saw it at the video store, rented it, took it home, and it became one of those movies like we've called before, A Remote Dropper, where if it was on cable, my dad and I would watch it at any point in the film and just get wrapped up in it in, you know, time and time again.

Yeah, I mean, it is an immensely rewatchable film.

And the, you know, I know Ebert, you know, he gave it a modest, like, two and a half star review.

Cisco gave.

Cisco gave it a thumbs up.

But as we're going to see here, this movie just builds and builds and builds, and it's hard for me to think of somebody watching this and, and thinking that is thin.

If anything, if you, you know, you think you've seen it before and, you know, maybe you've seen, you know, tens and hundreds of movies like this with teams and stuff like that, that maybe you just, maybe you're.

That could just be.

You're not interested in some of the things that they're doing.

I mean, they're basically, they're.

I mean, they got a McGuffin, they got their team.

They have to go after the McGuffin, and they find new ways to accentuate how they have to pull off this hype.

I mean, this is the, the first, like 45 minutes of this movie, maybe even the first hour of it.

You got to establish all these characters.

You establish what, you know, that they set you up with a sort of like an initial heist.

Basically.

It tried to get this black box that will eventually be called, and then they escalate it, and then it escalated some more, and then the team has to figure out how to pull off another heist and, and, and get.

Get themselves out of all this.

And they do it in such, like, every seed in, like, the second half of this movie is like an idea that I don't recall ever seen in a movie, at least done in the way that it is.

Yeah.

Now that's a good point.

And one of the first movies that my dad really loved, and I think a lot of it had to do with the ending, too, was the natural.

And the jacket that Robert Redford wears throughout most of this film is the exact same one.

It's just one of those Cute jacket.

Is it.

Is it this jacket or.

I don't think it's this one.

I think it's the.

It's almost like the letterman like, jacket that.

The one that he wore when he pulled up to the.

To the bush side.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that one.

Interested?

Yeah.

He must have just kept it from.

Yeah, from the natural and just like, decided to keep wearing it.

Maybe because it looked good on him.

Well, I mean, he's Redford, so, I mean, right.

Just about anything's gonna look good on him.

Mary McDonald.

Talk about her for a little.

Yeah, imagine John Sales.

So, yeah, there's a little button at.

The end of that scene where they set up this relationship between Redford McDonald and they clearly had some sort of, you know, intimate relationship in the past.

And they.

They play it off like there's kind of disinterest there.

But the end, he pulls a kind of a Macaulay Culkin, like.

Yes.

Little moment there at the end.

Nice little thing.

Yeah.

I've.

I've always been curious about this relationship because you mentioned the friendship dilemma podcast that I do with Morgan guy.

Oh, yeah, there you go.

I've thought about.

I've thought about this relationship because I don't think that they.

I can't.

I. I always forget if they actually do have a kiss moment later in the movie or if they don't.

I know she kind of like nurses him back to health a little bit.

Yeah.

Tends to his wounds.

But I don't think they.

There's.

There's clearly there's something there, but they never.

By the end, there's never assumption that they're going to get together at all.

So I think this actually would make a great fit for.

For that podcast.

I think so, too.

I mean, obviously they were together at some point.

Romantically involved.

The first role for Dotto Logue, by the way.

Yes, his.

His.

His screen debut here, looking a. I don't know, looking like he should be a Die Hard.

Yeah.

With the long hair and the white suit and him standing in the background there with all that.

All that code and that text and that.

The.

The equations.

To come and learn your scientist.

And of course, you have to introduce a Russian consulate that's right.

So we suspect him as being involved at this time.

The great thing about movies is that Russia's villains will never go out of style.

No, it's true.

It's true.

Yeah.

Hello, Greg.

Yeah.

Seemingly introduced as potentially an important character, but we'll find out that, like you said, it's sort of a misdirect here as well.

And I like that.

Again, the dynamic that Redford McConnell.

They don't really want to talk to this guy.

They don't like Redford.

Just pause him off on the coddle and she's like, oh, great.

Yeah.

And it makes me wonder, like, why does she know him, too?

Like, how.

How involved has she been in with his, you know, sneaks or whatever he's been a part of in the past?

It's kind of interesting.

Yeah.

It's a way to use a character, an ancillary character like that to maybe, you know, make you think more about the relationship between Redford and McDonald, that.

How.

How long have they been.

Were they together?

That they knew this guy from back during the.

Basically the Cold War days.

Because this would be post Cold War.

I don't trust that.

That guy.

Oh, yeah.

See, setting things up like that by just saying, I don't know if I trust this person.

I don't know if I trust that person.

And there's a lot of talk of trust throughout this.

Yeah.

Throughout this movie, you won't know who to trust.

And here comes another Phil Alder Robinson staple from Field of Dreams.

Yes.

Book batter Lee Garlington.

Can I call you.

I started to revisit because I don't think I'd seen it since the theater, but I didn't get to finish it.

The Sum of All Fears, which is, I remember thinking, was good but not great.

And, of course, when she popped up at one point, I was like, oh, I know her.

I've seen her.

Yeah.

In several things.

She's also the villain in Cobra.

That's right.

One of the villains in Cobra.

Yeah.

The main one.

But.

Yeah.

Did you ever see.

Because I. I'm assuming you've seen it.

I. I never got around to.

I think it was Phil Alden Robinson's last film, the Angriest man in Brooklyn, which I don't remember getting great reviews, so maybe that's why I steered clear of it.

That's the Robin Williams film.

Yeah.

I never did see that.

Yeah.

Just because.

Yeah.

Again, like, it wasn't thought of as a good film.

So I was just like, you know.

Yeah.

When we talk about.

When we talk about Phil Alden Robinson.

We, you know, we think that, you know, his directorial career was not.

It was not.

It's not a huge resume.

Right.

As.

As you can see.

But when you go back to when last year, Parks, you know, have brought.

You brought this idea to Robinson way back in the day.

This is like the early 80s, that Robinson deals, asked them to develop the script.

And Robinson went off and he was writing his own scripts at the time.

He wrote, uh, all of Me.

Yeah.

Lily Coblin, and he did uncredited rewrite on Fletch.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's a really weird.

All you have to do is look at his writing credits and kind of see peaks and valleys and ups and downs and just kind of a varied career in terms of going from.

In the same year from Rhinestone to All of Me.

Yeah, well.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

Basically.

Yeah.

Under understood and a hard movie to find now.

I bet I could find it.

Yeah, I'm sure.

But it's.

Yeah, I want.

It's another.

I want to revisit again because I. I know I borrowed it from Colin like, many years ago, and I just never got around to revisit.

No, it's not.

It's.

It's a pretty enjoyable movie, basically.

True story of this, like, Te.

Maybe I don't know how it plays now.

I mean, teenage scenarios maybe that Patrick Dempsey played way too many of in that era that I never.

This is.

Well before he was known as, you know, McDre.

So I. I did never quite understood the Patrick Dempsey thing at this period.

And then, yeah, here's.

Here's them on the job and basically all being reduced to little boys.

All of them are released of teenage boys.

You know, Peepee Toms, you know, spied on this thing.

I mean, River Phoenix reaction.

Please let me look at Sidney Poitier.

You're like, you grow up.

And then he's like, let me take a look.

And I really do like that this.

This particular line keeps getting repeated.

And you don't think much of it at first, but of course, it's Whistler who's like, hey, wait a second.

Listen.

You don't have to look.

Just listen.

Yeah, this movie is well ahead of the day of Disclosure Day.

Indeed, indeed.

I think at one point, I think it's during the party sequence, Dan Aykroyd brings up aliens, and I'm just laughing my ass off at that now.

Yeah.

And again, like, here's, like, what you were just saying there, that, you know, we're sort of keyed as moviegoers, as visual.

Right.

You know, as a visual medium and as.

As spies, you know, we associate that with, you know, looking in on things that we're not supposed to be looking at, and we ignore the.

The other sense that to listen is just as important.

I mean, that's spies eavesdrop and stuff like that.

But here is just try to figure out someone's password.

And they think they failed because they haven't been able to see the keyboard strokes necessary.

And Whistler picks up on a very key point.

Whistler would be a huge podcast fan, I have a feeling, because, you know, there's this, like, people who love to listen.

I know.

You know, there's.

And I've.

I'm one of those, you know, and certainly there's.

I think, like, again, it's been inherent, and you can kind of go back to just.

Even the.

The work of Hitchcock is like, highly emphasizing voyeurism as this ultimate cinematic theme, because that's exactly what the audience becomes.

And, yeah, I. I like that.

I like it when it just comes up in even something like this, which, again, market is like, oh, look at this great cast, and you're gonna have a great time.

And it's a thriller and everything, but still, there's.

There's more to it than just that.

That's what I really appreciate about this movie.

Of course, here's another one of Ackroyd's mother's conspiracy theories about the.

The Apollo moon landings being faked.

It becomes like a, you know, a who's who of conspiracy theories that are brought out throughout this movie.

This is, you know, you know, nine months removed from jfk, you know.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And well before, you know, Mel Gibson conspiracy theory that, you know, have had a little bit of fun with all that stuff.

But, yeah, this is.

We laugh at it.

You know, obviously we laugh at how ridiculous his conspiracy theories are.

And then you think in the 25 years since this movie that some people really do believe that stuff, and it's become.

Some of those things have become mainstream in some respects, that's scary shit.

Yeah.

I mean, there's tons of Reddit threads nowadays, and I don't know, it's just.

It's funny to think, too.

Sharon brought up the fact that.

I.

Want to say this.

Did this come out before or after the X Files because of the Lone Gunman you know, like that.

That interplay.

Yeah, yeah.

There was the spin off.

And it's basically like, yes, Sneakers only with, you know, with.

With the Lone Gunman.

Basically just like having that camaraderie, that interaction, but also being all about conspiracy theories.

And if you watch the pilot of the Lone Gunman, you know, just watch that episode sometime and be completely freaked out by the fact that it.

They talk about these planes crashing into the World Trade Center.

And this.

It is just so eerie and so weird.

Yeah.

The X Files actually premiered almost one year to the date of the release of this movie.

Wow.

And just to get sidetracked here for a moment, but here's a perfect example of talking about.

About Redford light comedy.

Oh, this?

Yeah.

This, to me, almost like summed up the movie.

Like, you know, it's.

It's like, you think it's going to be this high tech.

All right, let me figure out this code.

Let me, you know, get some ideas.

And then, no, I'm just gonna kick it down.

Right.

And they set up like you could kind of see the joke coming in a way.

I mean, I think that joke's been done to death probably since this movie.

Yeah.

But just watching Redford, you know, again, listening, inherent.

We don't hear what's on the other end, but just inherently listening and just, you know, taking in the step, so to speak, of how to break this door down or to get it.

Get past this thing.

And it's just all.

All they told him to do is kick it.

And here a perfect.

Here's a perfect example of a seed that, you know, is.

It's.

They set it up like it's going to be like a suspenseful seed, and it turns into a seed of pure comedy.

Yeah.

And it showcases how good Redford is at this, too.

And.

Oh, yeah, and.

And this is mainly, like, Phil Alden Robinson himself.

Like, he wrote this scene independently of the other two writers, and they just loved it so much.

And rightfully so.

It's just.

It's.

It's really beautifully done.

And again, like, it's the Roxanne kind of dynamic of like, listening into another somebody else, like, feed them dialogue.

I always like.

But way to go, Redford.

Here.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Who do you think paid for your.

Little love job to Mexico City?

Quick thinking.

Yeah.

So when.

When straight.

When David Str.

Aaron came out for Little Prayer.

Did he come out for Little Prayer?

No, that's right.

Skill Festival, we had a book that's Right.

He ended up getting a.

A job gig, an acting gig that they wouldn't let him come.

Ah, that's right.

I don't know specifically what it is.

I have some theories, but I. I don't know who basically told him he could because he was booked.

We.

Everything was booked.

He was coming with Jade.

Levy was coming too, and it just.

It just didn't work out.

Ah, darn it.

I would have loved to have just.

Brought this up, but seriously, like, one of the nicest people I have ever dealt with and having not met them, in trying to get someone to.

To come to the film festival, just, I mean, just.

You just see it in his.

In the emails I received from him, you could tell what, just a match, this guy.

Yeah, I can tell for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Sometimes I don't understand myself here, look, I might lose my license for this.

My client is addictive, bitter woman.

Yeah, this.

I mean, this is a pretty lengthy scene, when you think about it, in the middle of this movie.

And it's just there to.

It's done for comedy, but it's done to, you know, get them out of this building, to get them away from this.

This heist.

You know, he just pulled off a very simple heist.

He just walks in the room and takes it, you know, but gets caught by this woman that Janik is having an affair with.

Yeah, I was.

I was listening to the commentary from the.

From the director and the writers, and it's interesting because I always thought this going back to when I first saw is like, so how did he just walk out of the building with the box?

You know, I mean, like, it just sort of.

I love the cut.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great cut to.

To the dance sequence coming up here.

But at the same time, I was like, was it that easy to just smuggle that box out of there from this point forward?

But they had a whole additional scene of him like, like putting it on a mail cart or a mail truck or something.

And I don't think you needed that.

And I think that was a wise choice.

Just like, you know, you know, chew the.

Cut the fat out of the scene and sequence.

And also, you don't expect, you know, a reference to giving head in a PG13 movie.

No, you don't.

It's great that the FDA let that one go.

Or maybe they didn't know what it was.

Yeah.

And of course, having.

Right.

Having a memory of my dad laughing at that when I was younger and going, what?

What?

What?

I. I Was.

I think.

I think I knew.

I think I knew that was.

Yeah.

Y.

Of course, there's one person here we don't see dance with.

Oh, really?

Oh, Redford, Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

There we go.

That's.

That's Ackroyd in a nutshell right here.

I think he.

Yeah, I think he came up with all this on his own, much like.

Like.

Like Tobolowski did later on, which we'll talk about when we get to him.

And he's wearing a tragically hip T shirt, which is a Canadian band that he revered.

What's interesting, that dad Ackroyd, when he was offered the chance to do this movie, he wanted to play Cosmo.

Oh.

Interest.

He wanted to play.

He wanted to play the Ben Kingsley role.

And, you know, well, they told him, like, well, Kingsley.

We already reached out to Kingsley, and he's interested, and he's like, oh, well, hell, you got to go with him.

Yeah, no kidding.

Yeah.

And Ackroyd, you know, he's, you know, could be kind of a weird guy, and he's definitely got, you know, a lot of thoughts on character work and stuff like that.

And he was gonna play the Cosmo role.

He said he had this character idea that he was gonna, like, base him off of Jerry Garcia.

What?

Yeah, I don't know.

That.

That.

The look or, you know, the fact that, you know, he's creates songs.

I don't know what that is, but.

Yeah.

Has that Aykroyd ever played, like, a straight up villain?

So I. I just can't.

I just can't picture that.

Maybe it's gross.

Point blank.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But still kind of a playful, fun villain of sorts, you know, I don't know.

It's.

Yeah.

Well, apparently there was an early draft of the screenplay where Whistler mother owned a recording studio and recorded punk bands.

Oh.

Oh, I missed that.

That was an early draft of the movie.

Wow.

No, they made a lot of changes over a long period of time, that's for sure.

Like, the ending is completely different, or at least.

Yeah.

I mean, we'll get to it when we get to it.

But, yeah, very tacked on.

I mean, attacked on a good way.

Oh, yeah, it's a good page.

But anyway, you think.

You think of, like, Aykroyd's progression through his film career and whatnot.

You see him getting closer and closer over the years to be, like, probably what it means to be Dan Aykroyd, you know, I mean, obviously, you go through the Ghostbusters phase.

And he's going through all of the.

This, the spiritual, supernatural stuff.

I like how Whistler just fills his drink here.

He just completely just.

Yeah, he.

I've always.

Like, he just.

He just.

To do this lie.

He just spills his drink there.

Okay.

By the way, scrunchie is a word.

Yeah, it's a.

It's a thing that you tie your hair with.

Right.

Like, I.

But that was, like, introduced later or maybe it was around this time that those.

I. I was.

I swore that I had.

I mean, I do have sisters.

I did have sisters at this time, but I still do.

And I'm pretty sure that they were referred to as scrunchies.

And you can spell them two ways.

You can spell them with a Y or an ie.

So that's.

I think Mary McDonald, just her character just.

Well, her hair's so short.

Maybe she just wouldn't have had any use for a scrunchie then.

So she probably didn't know what.

There's such nerds.

They're playing Scrabble.

They're just hanging out and having a nice dinner party.

Playing Scrabble.

Yeah.

I think between this and the conversation, there was always this desire to own a giant loft where I can just walk around and have all this space to do whatever I want, like, set up different, you know, like, this would be the music corner.

This would be the podcast corner.

This.

Yeah.

Artist, tech people, they all have to have giant loss.

I don't know why you need a giant loft like that.

You just need a lot of space to walk around.

Say, like, I don't know if this painting works, but.

But the tech people, I completely understand.

You got to set up a whole studio and you have all this equipment.

So.

Yeah.

And then later on, they managed to do that in the.

In her apartment, which is kind of a.

Kind of a feat in.

Of itself.

But I always thought this was a.

Weird thing that, like, he goes, oh, Ctech astronomy doesn't mean anything.

Well, there's probably a lot of company names that don't mean anything.

And whether they're anagrams or not, it's.

It's.

It's.

Yeah.

Where does he get the.

Where does he get this epiphany from?

You know?

Yeah, I don't know.

It's.

That's a good question.

There's again, like, it's.

I can understand having those questions watching this movie, but you kind of.

When you're invested in.

You're kind of just going with it.

You don't think about it as much but.

And this is.

Yeah, it's a marvelously edited sequence too, because these two different factors, the Whistler, you know, trying to figure out, you know, how to put this box together, and the way these two seeds are.

These two moments are going to come together at roughly the same time.

It's just.

It's a wonderful bit of editing here.

Yeah.

I know originally he was trying to get an anagram from no More Secrets, but he just never could come up with anything.

So that's why they went with Too Many Secrets.

But I think you mainly hear no More Secrets.

I think more later in the film from Ben Kingsley and a couple other characters rather than Too Many Secrets.

How about my Socrates note?

No.

Nope.

I wonder what if they're recording on that reel to reel?

Because it's.

It is.

It is on.

I don't know if it's just there for production value and like.

Yeah, give credit to the production designer too, because, man, they did some great work just with this loft alone.

Got a PG13 movie.

That's references to head and semen, by the way.

Just.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that anytime you have, like, old school tech people, you have to have a reel to reel that just shows that they.

They have been.

They're old school.

Yeah, exactly.

They're old school.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what's on it.

It's just part of their milieu.

That's a very.

That's also just a great reflective shot there of the computer in Christmas glasses.

It really.

It kind of recalls.

That's causing you, like, Flash Gordon a little bit.

Yeah, it's a.

It's a great look there.

Yeah.

And that's why you put that in the trailer to sell people and get them interested.

Like, what's that?

You know?

Yeah.

We don't know what this means, but it's numbers and digits and.

Wow.

And him just going, holy cow, look at that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Again, we'll get to some, like, especially once we get to the Ben Kingsley character, how this turns out to be very prescient in some of the things that they're saying and conveying to the audience here now more than ever.

But.

So now is he.

Is it.

When he has that revelation, when he puts together what CTEK astronomy means, is he thinking of Cosmo in that moment or, like, why is he thinking just.

Yeah, too Many secrets, you know?

Well, I think that this is something that this character has likely held with him since his days, you know, his early days, changing the world.

So, you know, Watergate hadn't even happened yet.

You know, all these.

So I think just the idea that that's always the back of it.

I mean, clearly they show that he's got a mistrust of the government.

Right, Right.

Working with the NSA is not really on his radar.

But, hey, they need the money, so everyone's got to sell out a little bit to.

To the band.

But once you discover what this thing does, you see, you know, an idealist like this will always see the worst potential for it, which they clearly do.

And Pote, I mean, Pote is.

He's got moments of comedy, this movie, but he is like the intense intensity driver of this thing, because he is the one that, you know, we're going to see him, you know, pull out a gun.

Oh, gold star for you Mystery Science Theater fans there.

Oh, gold star.

Yeah, that.

That might.

That might drive down his tech guy stock a little bit.

Uh, but maybe, hey, maybe that's all they could afford, too.

Yeah, it works.

You know, sometimes you gotta buy.

You know, they didn't have a Commodore 64.

I'm shocked.

Or an Apple IIC.

Yeah,.

Okay, Mother.

No, and.

And interestingly enough, wasn't it a few years before this that Potier and River Phoenix were in a movie together?

Yeah, they were in Little Nikita together.

That's right.

And yeah, this was.

That was like.

Another spy movie anyways.

Another spy movie.

A Russian spy movie.

And when River Phoenix got the.

The job for Sneakers, when he got the phone call that he was going to be in this movie, the.

I think it was Robinson that might have called him.

Uh, he heard Phoenix in the background on the phone talk to his mob, and he said, hey, Bob, guess who's going to play Kreese?

He's like.

He was just so excited to work with Sidney Potier.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah.

I mean, who wouldn't be excited to work with these guys, man?

Serious.

I mean.

Oh, seriously, like, why would, like, you would side out instantly with this cast?

I mean, even if the screenplay wasn't as good as it is, I mean, the opportunity to work with a crew like this, I mean, again, this.

I mean, this is.

There have been so many, like, team movies over the day, and there are a lot of movies that have, you know, six very successfully pulled off the team dynamic or big cast and whatnot.

And sometimes you see them all working together.

Sometimes it's A.

A team thing where you go like, well, it's a horror movie or a western.

Like, how many of these people are going to die by the end of the movie?

And yet this is nine years before they finally got Ocean's Eleven off the ground.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this is definitely a precursor to that remark, I think.

Again, this is, this is intense stuff here, too.

I mean, Pony basically saying that you can't leave and drawing some suspicion on to, to her character, Liz's character.

And I'm leaving.

Yeah, no, he, he.

And he makes perfect sense.

And he's also looking to protect her as well.

Like, it's a, you know.

And plus, just the way he delivers this line coming up is just classic Poitier.

It's like, ladies and gentlemen, Sidney Poitier delivers this line perfectly.

There isn't a government on this planet that wouldn't kill us all for that.

Another trailer moment, right?

Yeah, totally.

And again and again, another misdirect because, like, you know, he says government, but it's not.

We're thinking this is.

Could be a grander conspiracy.

This is like a Parallax View or Three Days the Condor type situation.

I mean, a little bit, it feels that way.

Eventually, the government does get involved in this story.

But I mean, this is, this is personal game.

This is a, you know, evil corporation.

This is James Bond type stuff in a way that, you know, this, this.

Another idealist is trying to get a personal gain out of this situation.

Yeah.

When he's loading the gun, you know, that could mean trouble.

And then, of course, the Delivery of Mary McDonald's line here is just wonderful.

It's.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's a lot that can be said about what makes this kind of a cut above the rest.

You know, for me is.

Is really about how time takes away your ideals and your dreams and this hope that you could maybe fix or change the system, even in small ways with money, by, like, making sure it gets to the right people and not those in power.

But then, as we see, like, authorities will get involved.

Those in power will always want to take down those who want to make a difference, whether it's in this country with our health care or how wars are funded, or even how technology itself becomes controlled by those with bigger bank accounts, especially now when it comes to AI.

So, yeah, that's something else I think about when I watch this movie and subsequent viewings over time.

The solutions to a lot of the things they.

They managed to go through are actually low tech, you know, like, and old school, like We've talked about where, you know, he just distracting the concierge with the delivery of Drano or kicking down the door or.

Or.

Yeah, just like, little things that don't necessarily involve technology in a major way.

It's like kind of.

I don't want to make this comparison to being like.

Well, it's like CGI versus practical.

But I don't know.

I think there's something special about the fact that a lot of the things that they managed to do throughout this movie don't involve technology directly.

It involves, like, walking slowly, you know, or just doing practical things.

Things in, like, not necessarily in a MacGyver kind of fashion, but still, it's.

I think that says something.

Oh, got his check.

And we don't really see a gun here, right?

Yeah, that's the question I was going to ask.

I mean, the fact that Jadic is dead means that they have, you know, that they've killed this guy, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's not clearly not a coincidence, but I highly doubt that they're going to kill him in broad, broad.

Daylight in front of everybody.

Yeah.

With nobody else around.

I mean, there's nobody else around, but there's people, you know, there.

If they would have just paid these people off and let them go, you know, I mean, if they didn't know what this box was.

I always thought there's like a quick split second here where it looks like they're gonna get up and go after him.

Well, I think at this point now, they realize that they know something.

So I think at this point, it's a point that they have to take care of these guys.

Yeah.

Eventually.

That's.

You know, they're.

I think I have a feeling that they might have just gotten paid.

Yeah.

Like there.

Yeah.

I'd be out of there, too.

Sure.

But I. I think that.

Yeah.

I mean, it doesn't get the check.

Yeah.

I mean, there's.

I mean, because they would have to hunt down all seven of these people afterwards.

That's a lot.

That's a lot of work.

Yeah.

First, I mean, they're not.

Ctec.

Astronomy doesn't seem to be a big organization that.

That is full of assassins.

So, you know, killing Janic, because he's, you know, obviously he's the one responsible for that.

Phil Alder Robinson using, like, almost.

Almost an identical shot here.

The way that he pulls the.

Apart.

The place before the.

The flag and whatnot, so you know exactly where he's at.

And you see the bush post of posters again.

Yeah.

And again, kind of a perfect little misdirect that they took away by home.

And he's, of course, just referring to the building.

He was referring to the building they're taken away by home.

That that's where he lives.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I. I have a feeling that they would have just paid these people off and let them go.

But, you know, potiers in the business and he probably.

He's probably.

He was probably on the other end of these situations in the past.

So he's a little.

Obviously a little more paranoid, a little more cautious, and is clearly, if they believe that the government is involved with this, that they are not past doing things like this.

And we don't.

We.

Yeah, we don't know at this point in time that Cosmo is responsible for all of this.

But I think, Yeah, I do think Cosmo would eventually wanted to reconnect with his friend, so to speak, because it does seem like he had a strong connection with him.

And that is one of those unfortunate things that, you know, you got to sell this movie.

You got to put Kingsley, you know, his name on the poster.

You have to, you know, you're establishing that Kingsley is going to reappear in this movie.

He's in the trailer, obviously, and you watch that opening scene, you know, that's clearly young Redford.

And the character they keep referring to as Cosmo, well, he looks a lot like Ben Kingsley.

So clearly that character is going to show up at some point.

So it's.

It's not like the biggest reveal in the world.

You, you know, if you're a savvy movie goer, you know, eventually he's going to show up.

I forgot to.

Was that David Pamer who played the young Kingsley?

It looks so much like him.

It looked.

It looks like him, but it's not.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I thought for sure it was.

Oh, they probably shouldn't have had those waiters behind there because they probably would have seen the gun.

Oh, I love a good glowing pool with mist above it.

Oh, yeah.

Nice reflective shot there.

Yeah.

And I guess it's a good place, too, to talk a little bit more about Redford and Kingsley.

You know, how they started out.

Their characters start on the same wavelength, but because of circumstances, they really do end up as very different people representing, you know, kind of the good way to make money with what they do, what the sneakers do in the case of Redford.

And then there's the nefarious way with Kingsley's character having entered organized crime, not by choice, really, but by necessity, in order to get out of prison, survive.

And they.

And they both could have ended up partners, but they're just so different in how they see the world.

Like, Redford's more of a pragmatic and realistic person who sees the reality that things are the way they are for a reason.

And you can make a little dent, but maybe not a major one, especially since, you know, technology and those who control it are always in this position of power and wealth and Kingsley's Cosmos coming from this place of wanting to change the world, but from a very unrealistic standpoint by thinking this black box is the answer and not thinking about the consequences.

So how'd this movie fare at the box office?

Since you're an expert at this too, that's something else you can.

We had financial trouble.

This was a success.

I mean it was.

You would refer to it, you know, as a modest success in many respects.

I mean it, you know, it opened number one.

It was number one for two weeks at the box office.

Opened in early September.

And uh, it made over.

Opened like $10 million.

Made over $51 million.

So that wasn't as uncommon as it is today for a movie to, you know, to more than five times it's opening and whatnot.

Especially if the word of mouth is good, which clearly was enough of, of this movie and it made another.

A good match that number with international dollars and oh, okay, so a 23 billion dollar budget grossed over a hundred billion dollars worldwide.

So this was a success.

I think not a lot of people refer to it like that because it's not.

Was like a gigantic blockbuster that year.

And people sort of the way that it's been talked about over the years, like this is a movie that had to be rediscovered.

People did go see this movie, but.

But it does seem like one of those ones that you do have to introduce to people over the years that.

Yeah, that's interesting to me.

Like given the cast and you know, I mean it's, it's weird when I even listened to an episode of the Rewatchables, hearing them talk about.

Nobody talks about this movie.

Nobody really thinks of this as an all time classic.

It's more of a sleeper hit or a cult classic or whatever.

And I'm kind of like surprised by that given.

I mean again, like I'm coming at it from a place of like.

Well, this to me is a movie I've seen over and over Again.

And have recommended to other people.

And for the most part, most people will at least say, oh, I enjoyed my time watching that movie.

Maybe they don't think of it as a, you know, all time classic or even something like Ghostbusters, of course.

But it's, you know, I, I feel strongly about it.

I may have spoken too soon about CTEK Astronomy and their assassins, because really, two people are.

Two more people are now dead.

Yeah.

And of course, you gotta do the frame job here.

Yeah.

It's too many secrets.

Yep.

Yeah.

And nice.

Keeping this guy blurry for a little while.

Wondering who that is.

And then of course, he comes into frame and focus.

That's a hell of a hit.

I'd read.

Yes.

As far as, like, he gets a couple of those.

He does.

And it's.

It's a great.

Again, that, that pays off in a great way later on, thanks to Redford.

And then.

Yeah.

Here, silent again, listening.

You know, what are we.

Where is he going?

Like, everything gets paid.

We've talked about this with Zus.

Like, almost everything gets paid off or everything has a purpose, like you would think.

Like, why are we just in the back, you know, in the trunk of the car with it, other than to show where, where he is.

But like, even in this shot, Three Days of the Condor again, being in a trunk.

No.

Yeah, but it's, it's very much like, yeah, we're gonna understand why later we are hearing what he's hearing or experiencing what he's experiencing.

Right.

And again, so you're kind of a lengthy sequence too.

I mean, they could.

People watching this go like, why don't they just cut to the, you know, wherever they're gonna take him.

Yeah.

Here they.

They're even stopping and they're going to knock him out again.

Calling back to some.

To cloak and dagger too.

Little Davey winds up in the trunk and gets hit.

And now we get to discover who's behind all of this.

Yeah.

And the one consistent critique I came across throughout my research was why did they give Ben Kingsley an American accent?

It's so bad.

It's like, I only.

I only hear like, I only.

Is it an American accent?

I don't, I don't know what it is.

What his accent is actually in this movie.

Disaster.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's.

I don't.

I mean, is that like pseudo Bostonian?

Like, what is.

Yeah, that's what it's.

Where's it coming from?

I mean, it's not even like a Forrest Gump thing where he like took on the accent.

Of the guy.

The young version of him played him, because I don't think that guy had the accent at all.

Is this an accent he picked up in prison?

That could be.

This is what happens when you hang out with the Mafia.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's like.

It's like.

It's like part Boston, part Italian.

I'm willing to forgive it because it's Ben Kingsley.

You know it.

He's so good.

Hey, that's a choice, you know?

Body.

Yep.

Body.

Hey, you remember it, right?

Oh, of course.

That's more than you can say.

Even.

Even if you don't buy into whatever accent he's doing, you kind of want to start doing that voice.

Yeah, no, exactly.

Go.

Yes.

We could trust them not to go running to the FBI.

Or if they did, we could trust the FBI not to believe them today.

Can't trust anybody.

Oh, boy.

Can't trust anybody.

Yeah.

And I'll talk a bit.

A bit more about this.

His backstory here.

Talk more about Whistler in a little bit.

There's connection to characters that.

Whistler, Davis, or Third's character is based on that.

Oh.

Back to this whole backstory of him.

How he.

I'll get to that in a bit.

A little tease for everyone, let us say.

Good family, organized crime.

It's not that organized.

Good line.

Yep.

Absolutely.

Release.

From my unfortunate incarceration, I begin to perform a variety of services, reorganize their entire financial.

I think it was George Carlin that said that if you really want to get the.

The bad guys, you know, go after, you know, the drug trade and whatnot, go after the bankers that hide their money.

You know, like, this is.

This is exactly who George Carlo was talking about.

Right.

Here is the.

The real smart guys who can organize the crime.

Yeah.

To get.

Let them get away with it.

These are the ones that, you know, that hide the files, that, you know, corrupt the files, that you need to put some of these really dangerous, evil people away.

Never underestimate someone who is good at Excel and organizing things, including you, for a whole film festival, for crying out.

I feel like I missed my calling.

I could have been a Cosmo.

Yes, you probably could have.