Journey of Leadership and Community with Imam Idris Abdul Zahir

In this episode of the American Muslim Podcast, host Imam Tariq El-Amin welcomes Idris Abdul Zahir, an esteemed Obama Foundation USA Leader, resident imam, deputy CIO, and filmmaker. Idris shares his deep-rooted journey in the Muslim community, heavily influenced by his parents' active roles. He recounts his personal transformation from reluctance to embrace leadership roles during high school, college, and eventually as an imam. Idris discusses the challenges and responsibilities of leadership, his views on community service, and his experiences in national and international leadership programs, including a recent cohort with the Obama Foundation. Emphasizing the need for constant self-improvement and community engagement, Idris inspires through his dedication to serving and uplifting the community.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:31 Guest Introduction: Idris Abdul Zahir

02:01 Early Influences and Family Background

03:44 Journey to Leadership

04:58 High School and College Years

06:54 Professional and Community Involvement

08:16 Leadership Philosophy and Development

23:20 Obama Foundation and Broader Impact

28:49 Recognizing Leadership Challenges

30:19 Finding Strength in Faith

32:27 Personal Growth and Community Impact

34:46 Historical Context and Future Aspirations

41:59 Balancing Multiple Roles

47:05 Global Perspectives and Interfaith Efforts

52:16 Concluding Reflections

May the peace that only God can give be upon you.

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Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast.

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I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin

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. If you're not already following us

on social media, you can find us

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on Facebook and Instagram at the

American Muslim Podcast, and you

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can find me at imam tariq Klain.

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Today, I am pleased to bring to you

another great conversation, and if this

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is the first time that you have listened

to us, I invite you to go back and

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check out some of our previous episodes.

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Our guest is Idris Abdul Zahir.

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He is an Obama Foundation, USA leader.

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He's the resident imam of

masjid-ullah the Center for

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Human Excellence in Philadelphia.

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He's the deputy CIO for a

large municipal department.

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He was appointed to Governor Josh

Shapiro's Advisory Commission for

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African American Affairs and appointed

to Philadelphia's first commission on

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Muslim engagement by Mayor Sherell Parker.

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He is a filmmaker, director and producer.

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We hope that you find value in his journey

and some of the lessons that he shares.

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And without any further delay, here

is our conversation with Imam Idris,

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Abdul Zahir talking about the many hats

and the roles that you find yourself

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in where it all started for you.

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And if you can look back to a formative

event, maybe a mentor a, a situation that

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you might have found yourself in, that you

can look back and see that that was it.

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It played a, it played an important

role and putting you onto the

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path that you're on today.

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Imam Idris: Well, first off, my

brother, I'd like to just thank you

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for having me on and, uh, thinking I'm

interested enough, uh, uh, to, to have

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me come have a conversation with you.

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I Oh, good luck.

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I, I certainly appreciate it.

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I, you know, I, I see the work that you're

doing and I see all the luminaries that

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you have on the show, and, uh, it, it's

an honor to be amongst the people that

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you've invited to, uh, share and talk.

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Um, with that being said

I feel like it was alre.

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It, it, it was something that was

already kind of plotted out for me

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before my, you know, my awareness.

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You know, I must state that I,

my father Imam Mu'rad Abdul-Zahir

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and my mother Sister Fatimah Abdul-Zahir.

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They already were heavy, uh,

supporters of our community and

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were active in the community and

had,, you know, had just been a part

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of the community and, and being.

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Present and my father was

assistant Imam at Masjid-ullah

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My parents were, uh, uh, of the

founders, you know, co-founders with

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the rest of the folks that were there.

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And they were already

active in the community.

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And so I just grew up with my father

as an amendment in multiple places

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because he started off as the assistant

amendment master law, but later Amir of,

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of a Muslim group called the Association

of Muslim Families and then later Imam

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of Master Free Haven in South Jersey.

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So when you grow up in that environment,

you see your father leading in

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certain ways and your mother involved,

and she's leading in certain ways

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and we're spending most of our

time in community and, you know.

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Helping and being a part of what's

good in the world, it just puts

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a certain level of consciousness.

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It like, kind of embeds it in you, right?

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So even though I never wanted to be

any mam and never wanted, I never

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wanted to do any of your stuff because

I saw, you know, I, like you just

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see, whaty, MAMs go through when

you're the son of an imam, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and, and, and you see the, the, the,

the underside of the community, right?

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The belly of the community and

the not so great stuff, right?

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And it just makes you, you

know, sometimes not want to even

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engage at, at, at some point.

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So, so I never, I never

aspired to be any man.

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I inspired to be a knowledgeable

Muslim and know my religion for myself.

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And I, I think that kind of started

when I was about 15 years old.

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We had always, you know, gone to.

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Sunday Madrea and, you know,

to learn our religion mm-hmm.

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And things like this.

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But but when I was about 15, I was in

high school and I myself and, uh, one

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other brother, you know, started to

get more serious about our religion.

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Uh, you, you may know him as, uh, Dr.

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Taha Wyatt.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, we went to the same high

school together and he was a

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couple years older than me.

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Mm-hmm.

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But we, you know, we had this chance

meeting over the summer between I

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think it was me going into 10th grade.

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So it was over the summertime and, uh,

we were, you know, going to the mast.

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I was coming up, I was

coming from down the block.

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He was coming from up the

block and we met at the door.

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At Maji Mecca, and I had

seen him around school.

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He had seen me around school, but

we didn't really know each other.

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And we went in and maca lot together.

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And then, a after that we kind of

stayed in touch and then he was a

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newer Muslim and, you know, wanting

to really learn his religion.

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And so we just started talking and

his new Muslim fervor kind of got me

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into, you know, reinvigorated myself.

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Right.

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So at this point I started reading

on my own and learning on my own

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and just really starting to take the

religious, the religion seriously.

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And, uh, and he and I went off and,

uh, established a Muslim student

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association at our high school,

central high school in Philadelphia.

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Oh wow.

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Um, we got the right to

leave for jui every Friday.

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So they changed our classes around for

us to make us make it comfortable for

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us to be able to leave every Friday.

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For Juah and also, you know, made space

for us to make prayer during the day.

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So we just was like, just

super serious about it.

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And so that kind of

was like the beginning.

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After that I, I, I went on to Temple

University and I became the president of

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the Muslim Students Association there.

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And then also gave my time in

the community with the Muslim

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Youth Association and used to,

you know, work with various

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Muslim, you know, youth groups.

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And we used to, I was asked to be the

host of a banquet every year that was

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for our youth in the, in the area.

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And I did that for, you know,

years and years and years.

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So over time people got used to seeing me

speak and stuff and wanted to offer me the

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opportunity to give, but I always said no.

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And that's, and I continued

to say no for years.

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Um, it wasn't really until, um.

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2016 when I finally said yes.

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And that was by, by that time

I was well into my thirties.

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And, you know, and just feeling

responsible now, you know, I

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got a family now, I got, I got

a child at that point, you know?

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And just, two children at that

point, and just felt responsible

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now to be a part of the community

and starting to give of my time.

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So I was asked by Iman ml Shabazz

to kind of give my first foot by,

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and I said, sure, I'll, I'll do it.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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Just thinking I'd be a kib, And, uh,

you know, it went pretty well and it

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just continued, you know, so at some

point he asked me to be his assistant.

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So, so I, after that, I kind of went

back to school some more, you know,

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tightened up my Arabic some more,

did some more studying, um, right.

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You know, because I wanted

to take it serious and, and,

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and do it well, you know, so.

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Uh, so that's, that's kind of how I

got in, you know, on that trajectory.

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But there's plenty more to, to speak

on, but that's, that's high level.

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Imam Tariq: Yeah.

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First of all, that's, that is truly

admirable is not even the word for,

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first of all, for a 15, 16-year-old

to, to be that focused on their

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dean and a public school, and to

get it so that you can leave for,

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you can leave for Juma on Fridays.

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I mean, like, this is one of the things

that most young people in public schools,

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young Muslims in public schools, this

is like one of the biggest problems.

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Yeah.

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You know, that folks face.

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You dealt with that head on.

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Now, what's interesting to me also

is that you said you saw your father

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as an imam, you are like, I'm not

really interested in being imam,

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Imam Idris: but No way.

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Imam Tariq: But there is this

consistent trajectory, this

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fulfillment of leadership.

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From high school to college?

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I don't know.

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Was that a, a part of what you saw?

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Any I mam, as or did you see that

as being something different?

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Imam Idris: No.

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So, so the thing is, I'm, I've always

been a reluctant leader, right?

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So even becoming the, the president of

the temple, MSA it was because people,

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people kind of pushed me to do it, right?

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They, they, they had to twist

my arm and sayres, go do this.

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And so I put my name in the hat.

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And same thing when, when I got

to national law, same thing.

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Again, it's, it's because

it's easy to speak.

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It, it's easy to, to get up and

give a talk and give up and, and say

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what you should do with your life

and all that kind of stuff mm-hmm.

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Is really hard to live it

and to then be the example.

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Right.

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And so, so I always had a healthy

respect for, you know, what you

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say outta your mouth, being held

accountable for it and guiding people.

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It's a heavy responsibility.

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And then you have to try your

best now to live up to it, right?

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To actually be what you say.

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Right.

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And we all fall short

in, in different ways.

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So I always had a healthy respect for

it, which is why I never wanted it.

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I, you know, and to some degree I was

always like an anti-establishment Muslim.

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Right.

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Just, that's just the way I was.

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Right.

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So, so even I was in, so, so even

though I was involved in the community,

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um, I, I, I still, there was a, there

was a part of my development where

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we were not going to a masjid, right.

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We were part of a, a family group

that kind of were, that kind of like

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swore off all the masjids and kind

of were doing our own thing mm-hmm.

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And had our own eves and did our own

celebrations and did our own everything.

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Right?

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So, so I was out in the wild for a

little while, you know what I'm saying?

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So, um.

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So, so I have the experience where

some part of my childhood is, is in

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an organized ma it between master

the Law and Master It Free Haven.

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And this period in between where

we were doing our own thing.

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And so I've seen the full gamut of it.

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All of it has its challenges and, um,

however so, so, but that, that period in

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the middle made me super independent, made

me like a person that didn't need to go

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to the maji to pray, sight cite the moon

for ourselves, you know, had eat on our

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own, you know, so like this whole thing of

having to go to a maji to do these things,

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never like it like, like even today it's

still something that I, I struggle with.

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Um, as far as seeing the world as the

maji and seeing that as the bigger.

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Picture rather than the four

walls of an actual ma yet.

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Hmm.

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So, so that's a, that's part of my

development that still kind of shows,

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shows today, which is why, um, why I

see it all as, as, as part of the work.

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Imam Tariq: You also mentioned something

that, uh, I think it's important for

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leaders and that's also a segment

of, of what I hope that we get out

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of the conversation as well is, is

advice for, for those who, I don't

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wanna say aspire to leadership, but

for those who, who recognize that

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they have a responsibility Yeah.

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To lead, you said, well, I went off

and I you know, I tightened up my

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Arabic and I went back to school and,

it makes me think about something one

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of my mentors told me years ago, which

was he said, uh, to qualify yourself.

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Yeah.

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What has been the most

important thing for you?

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As a leader in terms of knowing what

you needed to add to your toolbox in

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the many spaces that you operate in.

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Imam Idris: So again, another thing

that kind of started naturally that

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has paid off is around 2006 or so.

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I, uh, I felt the need, I

wanted to grow and become more.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, I was kind of just starting my

career like in, in, in, in earnest

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and just wanted to, wanted to ascend.

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Right.

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And so what I started doing was,

was, was reading autobiographies and

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biographies of successful black men.

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Right.

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Because I needed to have the mindset

of a successful black man in order

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to be a successful black man.

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Right, right, right.

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So I just started reading, you

know, you know, just, just, you

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know, some, some great books

around just mindset and leadership.

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And just trials and tribulations of,

what happens along the way, right?

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So we read, you know, books, uh,

from, uh, you know, um, just trying

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to think of a few that, that we read.

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I the book why Should, uh, white Guys

Have All The Fun by, uh, Reginald,

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I forget his last name right now.

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It's escaping me.

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Reginald Lewis, first, black

Billionaire spike Lee's autobiography

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Johnny Cochran's book uh, how To

Win Friends and Influence People.

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Uh, 48 Laws of Power, uh,

you know, lots of different

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management books as well, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Just, just all the classics to

try and get the mindset right.

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And then part of the other part of it

was just being in environments where.

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I was doing actual work.

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So my, my, my profession is

outside of, you know, being e

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mamos, being in the IT field.

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So, part of that work was was to engage

end users or en engage the customer

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to understand what they needed, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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And then, and, and then my role was

like a business analyst or, or a

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technical business analyst, right?

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So I was, I was gathering requirements

and gathering what people needed or

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what they were trying to accomplish.

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And I take it back to the actual technical

builders and, and, and translate it

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to them, a tech and tech talk, right?

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Mm.

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Um, and so, and then I guided them on

how to build what the people wanted.

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And then I would take go back

and forth between the two and

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say, this is what you needed.

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This is what you wanted, da da da da, da.

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And where there was translation problems,

I would translate tech, you know,

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uh, business, talk into tech talk.

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And, uh, and build a

bunch of great systems.

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And so we did a bunch of great systems,

uh, for the city of Philadelphia that,

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you know, that generate hundreds of

millions of dollars of revenue for them.

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And, um, and so that was, that was

a training ground to understand

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how to engage people, to understand

what people need and then try to

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build solutions for them, right?

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And that and, and being a leader in

that, that mindset helped, kinda helped

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prepared me to deal with the community.

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Just people, you know, saying one

thing, but meaning something different.

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Not saying what they really mean

sometimes, or sometimes it is not what's

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said, it's what's not said, right?

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And all of that is part of what

you have to kind of figure out.

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Those are all things, right, but,

um, but there that, I, I can't

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say there was one pivotal thing.

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It was, it was over, you

know, a decade or, or so.

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Of just different

opportunities that came my way.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Idris: Uh, to learn, to grow, to

engage people, understand human nature.

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Mm-hmm.

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This, this is so huge, right?

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Just to understand people and the nature

of people, because your expectations have

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to be in alignment with reality, right?

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If your expectations are not in

alignment with reality, you can't

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lead people because people are gonna,

people are going to people, right?

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Right.

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So, right.

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So you gotta, you know, you gotta

have a, you know, so, have your

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expectations in the right place.

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Understand where people are, meet them,

where they are, as much as you can.

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And then also be good at

identifying good talent because

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you can't do it all yourself.

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And you want to empower

those around you to.

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To see your organization as

a place where their talent,

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skills, and abilities can thrive.

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Right?

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And that's what I hope to do with

all the places where I lead, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Where where it's not all about me and

what I think and, uh, you know, the

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organization is not going to be limited

by my ability or inability, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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It's going to be based upon the

ability, skills, talents, and resources

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of everybody that's involved, right.

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As long as they can

contribute in a positive way.

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Right?

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Right.

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So, I mean, that's, that's, just

high level again, how we approach it.

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Of course, there are, there were

leadership courses that I went through.

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I just finished another.

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Leadership cohort with the

Obama foundation just last six,

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like, like six months ago or so.

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So it's,

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Imam Tariq: it's constant growth.

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You know, we, we were not gonna get

outta here without talking about that.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Um, but before we jump into that, you

mentioned that basically you've gone

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from almost an, an anti-establishment

type of anti-establishment, but still

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having a sense of community, right?

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Yeah.

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But not in necessarily in,

in what people might consider

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to be the traditional sense.

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It was not meshed based.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, it was people based.

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It was, it was, family based and of

course now serving as the imam of a maji.

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And, and then I make this connection, uh,

in the, uh, the work that you do from a,

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a technical standpoint as a go-between.

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That's what it kind of sounded like to me.

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Like you're mm-hmm.

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You're speaking two different languages.

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The tech talk and then

dealing with the end user.

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Do you see a connection between these

two aspects of your life where you

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were, you, you were outside and, and

now you're inside and dealing with

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you know, one particular professional

jargon and then trying to translate

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for the end user experience.

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Do you think about those experiences

and how they connect or do they

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connect and lend I guess maybe

lend a bit of color to one another?

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Yeah, that's a, that's

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Imam Idris: a great question.

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And as you were formulating an answer

that asking that question, I, I, I started

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to think about a particular mentor who

uh, a brother named, uh, Dean Harris,

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who is, uh, about, uh, about 30 years,

my senior, about 25 years, my senior

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or so uh, one of my IT mentors but a

fervent reader of the Quran, right.

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And had a very ha has a very

unique way of quoting Quran

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and then showing a correlation

between a hip hop lyric, right?

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Uh mm-hmm.

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So you know, so it's, it's like

a street corner clip on, right?

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And he knew how to talk to me

'cause I was a former mc too, right?

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So we used to rap and perform

and all that kind of stuff too.

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So, so I've always seen myself as a

person who, um, I feel like, um, part

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of what is embodied in me is that

I don't see, it's like Islam is not

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like necessarily a religion to me.

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Right.

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It's part of, it's part of who I am.

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Right.

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It's like I, I could never, like,

I, I, I could, could, could never

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see myself not as a Muslim, right?

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Like being a Muslim to me is almost.

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I, you know, as embedded in me as

being an African American, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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It's just like my makeup, it's my

mental makeup, it's my physical,

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like, I feel like it's my physical

makeup because it's part of my, it is

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deeply a part of my identity, right?

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I don't know how to not

think like a Muslim.

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Right, right.

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Or not be a Muslim.

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Though I've been around a lot of

folks that are not, so I know.

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So I tend to understand where

a lot of folks are coming from.

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Right?

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So I say that to say that what I

try to do is, what I find is that

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there, there's this intersection of

people that are, I, I guess like.

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Stringently Muslim or super Muslim

because they're escaping a life of

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extremism in the other way, right?

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They smoked, drank Fornicated, did

a whole that other stuff before,

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and now they found Islam and now

everything's haram, and they want

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to, you know, be super dini, right?

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Imam Tariq: And

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Imam Idris: then you got the Muslims

who, who were born Muslim, like

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me, who grew up in really strict

households and kind of have, strayed

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away from Islam or, or don't see it

as something that they will, practice

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regularly you know, as, as a lifestyle.

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And so, I'm, I'm constantly trying to

make a, a, translate it in a way that

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makes it as natural as breathing, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Back in the back, in the first,

they used to say Islam fit like

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a well-tailored suit, right?

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And that's the way you want.

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That's how I want to speak about Islam,

talk about Islam and preach Islam.

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Right.

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And live it in my life example.

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Right?

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And so, because if it's as

natural as breathing, then it's

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something you can do, right?

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Right.

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And it's something that you, that

you can do without effort, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and that really comes from me

studying, uh, martial arts or self-defense

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for about a decade of my life.

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Or so.

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My sensei a Neir Hassan he

used to teach us about our,

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uh, our crisis stance, right?

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And so, so when it's time to like

defend yourself, you don't have to,

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you know, step back and get into

your little fighting position, right?

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Your, your crisis stance should

be your natural stance, right?

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Right.

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So how you naturally walk down the

street, how you naturally stand, you

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know, when you're in a crowd or whatever.

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How you defend yourself.

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You have to be able to defend

yourself from that position, right?

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So there's nothing unnatural

about, about defending yourself.

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So same thing with this line, right?

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It should be as natural as

walking, breathing, talking.

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And that's in essence what I try to do.

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I try to make it relatable.

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I try to I give examples and I try to

let us step into perhaps the mindset

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of all the characters that are being

talked about in the scriptures right?

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In, in, in the Quran.

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You know, we just gave a hookah this,

this past Friday and just talked

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about, mention prophet Yusef, lady

Heala, and, you know, just, how he was

416

the prophet of God, been completely

obedient, but was in jail, right?

417

He ended up in jail and the person that

was there to try to, you know, that,

418

that he deemed could help get him out.

419

You know, had got out and

forgot about him, right?

420

Mm-hmm.

421

So it's like, it's easy.

422

Like you could have easily given up

faith here you are a prophet, a guy,

423

you've been nothing but obedient,

nothing but doing the right thing.

424

And here you are in jail, right?

425

Right.

426

Forgotten about.

427

Right?

428

So it's just like, um, that

like people can connect with

429

a feeling like that, right?

430

That, maybe you're not in jail,

maybe you, are not as perfect as,

431

as prophet Yusef may have been.

432

Right?

433

Uh, and maybe you're having

some difficulties in life and

434

it's just like, don't give up.

435

Because at the end of that story,

he's put over the storehouses

436

of, of Egypt during a famine.

437

He's reunited with his family and he's

in a place of respect and honor, right?

438

So it's like, and, and then we

related the fact that, that particular

439

sword was given in its entirety.

440

To prophet Ham Som So when he was

going through a hard time, when he

441

was going through the year of sorrow,

he had lost his wife, he had lost his

442

uncle, he went to Taif and got stoned.

443

You know what I mean?

444

Things were just going bad.

445

Right?

446

Yeah.

447

And then a law gives him

thoughtful Yusef, right?

448

Which gives him this story of,

trial and tribulation, but then

449

triumph, towards the end there.

450

So, so that's, that's really how we try

to, you know, try to teach the dean, you

451

know, and try to, you make it relatable.

452

Imam Tariq: You mentioned

the Obama Foundation.

453

What drew you to that, and what did

you, did you go into that looking

454

to have a particular takeaway?

455

Imam Idris: Yeah.

456

Yeah.

457

So, again this one started.

458

Again, years before, like, like, like

many people, I, you know, I, I saw

459

his speech at, at the, uh, 2004 De

Democratic Convention was inspired by it.

460

Um, and then as he began to run

for president, I'm not sure if it

461

was after or shortly before I did

read you know, his, his first book.

462

I think, uh, the one

about his father, right?

463

Imam Tariq: Yeah.

464

Imam Idris: Inspiring book and, um, and

just really you know, gave me, gave a

465

glimpse into who he was as an individual.

466

Fast forward during the pandemic

as president, uh, biting was

467

running for office the first time.

468

he came and visited Philadelphia to, to

try and get the young black male vote out.

469

And I was one of 12, 12 individuals

asked to come sit with him

470

and, and ask him questions and,

you know, and engage, right?

471

again, one of the common themes that

he was, was, was teaching There was

472

because of course I asked about Muslims

and, you know, our, our position

473

of course, but his, his whole thing

was about building coalitions on

474

like-minded issues or like-minded things,

because now it's not a Muslim thing,

475

it's a bigger than a Muslim thing.

476

It's a, it's a US thing and we all

agree on this despite being a Muslim,

477

Christian, Jew or whatever, right?

478

So, so, so then we go into I started

to follow the foundation, seeing the

479

work that they're doing, and I saw they

started this leadership cohort the year

480

before I was going to apply, but I had

so much going on I, I didn't think to,

481

or, or didn't, didn't follow through.

482

But what made me actually do it this

time around was just I had just reached

483

a, a place in my leadership that I felt

like I, there was another plateau to

484

go to that I had, you know, done some

great things, but I had, um, we had

485

essentially, uh, gotten about, two or

three promotions in the last, you know,

486

five years, five or six years or so.

487

And I had a different

level of responsibility.

488

The Maji started to get a different

profile and started, you know,

489

and, and I'm being asked to, you

know, be on national TV and travel

490

overseas and all this kind of stuff.

491

So, I, I just felt that there

was another plateau of leadership

492

that I needed to step into.

493

I felt a little stagnant.

494

If that even sounds, you know,

uh, reasonable to say, right?

495

Mm-hmm.

496

Um, I, you know, so I, I'm constantly

challenging myself and I'm constantly

497

trying to get to that next level.

498

So.

499

I saw the program, I saw

what, what they were offering.

500

I thought the biggest thing out of it.

501

'cause I felt like, you know, even

with me looking over what was gonna be

502

taught, I felt like maybe, and maybe

even 70% of it I already knew had

503

practiced, could even teach on it, right?

504

Um, but really it's, it's, it's

about the network as well, right?

505

It's being in a cohort with other people,

do you know, at the same level of,

506

progress, success, career as you, and

then having a network of people to tap

507

into when you're ready to do things that

are beyond your current network, right?

508

So, and that's really the

biggest benefit I felt.

509

Right?

510

And then even understanding that

what we saw as Obama and his success.

511

Are all things that have been

codified or can be codified.

512

Right.

513

Meaning that it's put into a system and

you can repeat that type of success.

514

Maybe not identically or

become the next president.

515

Right.

516

But there's a strategy behind it.

517

There's somebody that, this, it is

not just, just individual, Uh, yeah.

518

Uh, charisma.

519

It ain't

520

Imam Tariq: happenstance.

521

Yeah.

522

Imam Idris: Yeah.

523

Right.

524

It's not happenstance.

525

It's not just off charisma.

526

It's there's intention behind it.

527

There's strategy behind it.

528

And me learning that is what I,

I, I, I feel like was added on.

529

Right.

530

And now have a national and now

international network because the Obama

531

Foundation has not just the USA cohort.

532

They have a Asian cohort, African cohort.

533

Europe cohort and, um, and, uh,

and we've now started to do peer

534

groups outside of America now.

535

So I'm, I'm matched up with leaders

in Africa, Europe and Asia and,

536

um, and so we're looking at common

things in how we can help each other.

537

Um, and then we have other peer

groups for national folks, right?

538

So it's just, it's just ongoing

engagement and constantly seeing, you

539

know, how we can assist each other and

grow you know, that positive influence.

540

So I just think that, that, that's super

important, for leaders to constantly be

541

retooling, adding more on and refining

yourself as a leader so that you can,

542

continue to grow the organizations

that you lead and, uh, and you know,

543

and, and, and be a more impactful

544

Imam Tariq: leader.

545

So I'm gonna give a

little bit of a testimony.

546

I'm gonna preface this question

with a little bit of testimony.

547

Sure.

548

Okay.

549

So I remember reading, this is probably

about, maybe 25 years ago John t Maxwell's

550

21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.

551

And one of the laws was the law

of the Lid and paraphrasing.

552

It basically just says that if your

leadership style is such that you

553

have so much responsibility, so much

goes through you or is dependent

554

upon you, that your organization

will go no higher than your ability.

555

Yeah.

556

So that's a, that is a, a

very dangerous place to be in.

557

And sometimes leaders don't

recognize they're in that place.

558

You said something, it said to me that

you are obviously not just somebody who's

559

been leading for a while, but somebody who

was very conscious of their leadership.

560

And that was, you said, I'm

looking to go to the next level.

561

And that's not something you hear

from people who are in leadership

562

positions where they feel overwhelmed.

563

Talk to us a bit about, about what it

means to keep yourself in a, in a place

564

that you can visualize or aspire to the

next level and not become, not become

565

a, a victim of, you know, of leadership.

566

Right.

567

Not become

568

Imam Idris: jaded.

569

So, right.

570

So let me just first be real for a second.

571

Right.

572

Which is, which is you.

573

Absolutely.

574

It, anybody, any leader who truly cares

about what they're leading in mm-hmm.

575

Absolutely.

576

Will have days and times where

they feel like walking off.

577

Right?

578

You're going to have times when

you do feel overwhelmed, right?

579

Yeah.

580

That is abs that is

guaranteed to happen, right?

581

Mm-hmm.

582

M I'm just saying it, I'm just

gonna tell you that, right?

583

Mm-hmm.

584

Um, and so I, so even though.

585

I may have responded in ways that, that

were healthy and helped me move forward.

586

I still had those feelings

of, man, this man, this ain't

587

worth my time no more, man.

588

You know?

589

Or, or these people are crazy, man,

I can't, I can't do this no more.

590

Right?

591

Right.

592

Um, absolutely.

593

What what grounds me is the Quran, right?

594

Mm-hmm.

595

There's, there's not a righteous person in

the Quran that did not go through a trial.

596

You have multiple prophets.

597

They're hearing from Allah.

598

They, they, they getting revelation

and people are not following Right.

599

You know what I'm saying?

600

Yeah.

601

they, they were worthy to have that

to be named in the last scripture

602

for all of mankind for forever.

603

Right.

604

And they had their problems and

their tribulations and trials, right?

605

The Prophet Muhammad, peace

of lessons be upon him.

606

He had been teaching Islam, for

about 10 years in Necca when the

607

year of sorrow took place, right?

608

When, when he lost his wife and his

uncle and Taif, he only had about

609

150 followers at that time, right?

610

our average Jew minds at

least twice that, right?

611

So, so, so I'm, I should expect to have

some trial right there verses in the

612

Quran where the prophets are settlement.

613

And, and those with him said, when

comes the help of a law, right?

614

That's right.

615

You know, I mean, can you think

about, can imagine that you're the

616

prophet of God and, and you get

like, you so stressed to the point

617

where you say where's the law's help?

618

Like, can you imagine that man?

619

Oh yeah.

620

So that's pressure.

621

That's pressure.

622

Right.

623

And Allah recorded that and put it

in the book for us to learn from.

624

Right?

625

Which is that if you are, if you don't

go through times when your work, when

626

you ask Allah, where is your help, then

you not really making an impact, right?

627

Yeah.

628

If you are going to make an impact and

are going to actually, uh, be influential

629

and change some things, you are absolutely

going to have those moments, right?

630

And what keeps me going is to say,

this is par for the course, right?

631

This is what tells me that I am doing

what Allah has set me on set for me to do.

632

Right?

633

Because if I was unimpactful, if

I wasn't changing things for the

634

be if none of those things were

happening, no one would mention me.

635

No one would care about me.

636

No one would be give, giving

me a hard time, right?

637

Mm-hmm.

638

Um, the other part of it too is that.

639

There were times when I wanted to

escape and Allah put things in a way

640

to stop me from being able to escape.

641

Right?

642

I was like, Jonah, man, I'm

trying, I'm trying to get on the

643

boat and go someplace, right?

644

Mm-hmm.

645

You know, you get tossed overboard

end up in the belly of the whale

646

asking for a wall to send you back.

647

Right.

648

I'll, I'll do it this time.

649

Right?

650

Imam Tariq: Correct.

651

Imam Idris: So it's so it's those signs

in your life that say, oh no, you, you,

652

you're, you can't escape this at all.

653

Right.

654

Even though you wanna put

the burden down at times.

655

It's, it's just that.

656

And then I think then once you come

to that realization, it's then,

657

okay, I have to become more now.

658

Right.

659

Because I have to be able to pass these

tests and be able to meet the challenge.

660

So I have to become more, and

I have to challenge the people

661

around me to become more right.

662

And I have to try and bring in more

people to help with the cause, right.

663

So that I don't become overwhelmed and

quit and become depressed and fall apart.

664

Right?

665

And so really, so if I go back and answer

the other question again, part of it too

666

is that the challenge started to grow.

667

And so that was me learn saying,

okay, I need to grow more, right?

668

Because if I'm going to carry this

burden, I need to become stronger.

669

I need to be lifting, you know,

you know, instead of a hundred

670

pounds, I gotta get to one 50 now.

671

Right?

672

You know?

673

That's right.

674

And really that's what keeps me going.

675

And then the other part of it too

is a personal thing, which is that

676

because I didn't grow up in the maji

necessarily my children though, are

677

tied to our, our, our, our maji, right?

678

And there's a whole group of

children who love being at the Maji.

679

Um, most of their friends are Muslim.

680

They have a, a Muslim environment,

Muslim peer group, right?

681

And essentially I want to do my part in

protecting that environment and protecting

682

those, you know, that, that next

generation and making them feel like they

683

want to, you know, perhaps continue this

effort and continue this work in Shaah.

684

So that's, that's the

personal part about it.

685

You know, it's, it's, it's just

making sure that we do a good job

686

in, in, in receiving what we what

has been established, growing it to

687

the point where the next generation

wants to actually take it on.

688

Right?

689

Mm-hmm.

690

Um, and then they take it into the future.

691

In Shaah.

692

In

693

Imam Tariq: Shaah.

694

Where do you fall in terms of, are

you the second imam and the history

695

of master law or the Oh no, the third.

696

No, no, no.

697

Imam Idris: So there was

Imam Lewis who was the first.

698

Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

699

Imam Idris: Um, I believe

Imam er was the second.

700

Iam Abdul Muhammad Abdul Ali, which

may, you know, he's, oh yeah, he

701

would've been the longest tenured.

702

Imam Tariq: Yeah,

703

Imam Idris: he was the

longest tenure at there.

704

So I think he was the third.

705

Abdul Ali, I think might

have been the fourth.

706

Fifth is Imam Ml Shabbat.

707

So I'm, so, I, so I might be the

sixth, uh, resident Imam perhaps.

708

Those are the ones that I that I know,

and there were several assistant eams

709

that, that helped along the way as well.

710

Um, so, and we are about, uh,

711

so this is our 47th year.

712

Wow.

713

And, um,

714

yeah, 48th year, actually.

715

48th year.

716

Um, and so, you know, and, and

Charla we'll be coming up on

717

50 years in a couple years.

718

So

719

Imam Tariq: that's where

I, that's where I sit.

720

I'm looking forward to you all's

50 year celebration in Charlotte.

721

Yes, sir.

722

For those listeners who are familiar

with the community of a Mamo Muhammad.

723

This year we have been celebrating

50 years of its leadership and

724

about, what, two months ago?

725

Was it two months ago?

726

August 1st?

727

Yeah.

728

Yes.

729

Two months ago.

730

We had the the celebration commemorating

that at me, law and Philadelphia.

731

And it was absolutely beautiful.

732

It was my first time there and being

able to be in that space, it man, it just

733

made me so, so proud and, and so hopeful.

734

Oh, and watching you give Shahad, and

I've seen you, uh, I've seen you do

735

this online, social media, but watching

you give the Jihad detain and giving

736

explanation, and for the benefit of our

listeners who may not be familiar, that's

737

just the Declaration of Faith, right?

738

There's no God but the law

and that Muhammad peace be

739

upon him is, is Messenger.

740

Can you talk a bit about what.

741

Master the law has met in its progression

for the community that it is situated

742

in and what you see that trajectory

looking like as you move forward.

743

Imam Idris: Yeah.

744

Humble.

745

Glad man.

746

So

747

master the law has been a a mainstay

and a, and a anchor of the West Oak Lane

748

section of Philadelphia for a long time.

749

Uh, we moved up that end in the early

eighties starting by renting a facility

750

not too far from where we are today.

751

And we purchased a building around

the corner from where we are

752

today, and we're there for probably

close to about 30 years or so.

753

And then we've been at the new

location for the last, uh, dozen or so.

754

And so.

755

The part of the city that we're in

is predominantly African American.

756

It's lower middle to middle, middle

class high voting block, and some of

757

the most civically engaged citizens

in Philadelphia, which is why it

758

has the importance that it has.

759

Right.

760

And so when we went into that

neighborhood, the, our founders and

761

the, and the pioneers of the community

were very conscious to become a part

762

of the neighborhood to offer services,

to, to give food to, you know, they

763

were, you know, doing all types of

engagement in the community just

764

to be a neighbor and a benefit to

everybody there, not just Muslims.

765

Um, and that, you know, that really

comes from the teachings of Iman Wolf, de

766

Muhammad, Rahim, honah, and the spirit in

which she kind of blew into our community.

767

Which is, you know, we're no

longer a separatist group.

768

We are Americans.

769

Right.

770

We have a responsibility in America.

771

And we have re responsibility

to our people as well, right?

772

To, uh, to offer a Islam because we

believe a Islam is the best way of life

773

for us and our families, and we ought

to put it on a beautiful platter, right?

774

And serve it to our guests, right?

775

Or to those that we wish to invite, right?

776

And so that's what Master Law has

been for the Philadelphia community.

777

And we've been a part of, much of the,

I think, political success of many of

778

the folks in, that that part of the city

and many of the people that we've helped

779

to, you know, get into, whether it's

council or state reps or mayors, right?

780

understanding that, you know, our

ancestors or our, our forefathers,

781

you know, fought for that, right?

782

Um, were civically engaged and again, our

tax dollars are going into the system.

783

And, you know, if you're not engaged

and you don't have any say in how those

784

tax dollars are then spent out right.

785

To the community.

786

So that's, that's super important to us.

787

And we see that, you know, as part,

as part, again, of our duty, right?

788

Our sacred duty.

789

And so what those founders and

pioneers established, we just came

790

and just added onto it, right?

791

So now master law is

actually a polling place.

792

And so everyone in the neighborhood comes

and, you know, they vote there, right?

793

For many people, this was

their first time in the mast.

794

We are community center, so when the

state reps and the council people and

795

different groups want to do community

meetings, they come to master the law.

796

And so again.

797

It's a place where people can,

first time in the maji you get the

798

great hospitality and then we get

opportunity now to speak to you.

799

So I just think that there's a lot of good

that comes out of the community and it's,

800

and, and we address and solve some issues

that the African-American community, but

801

Philadelphia in general is dealing with.

802

And so people are coming to us for

answers for just life problems, right?

803

Just regular.

804

You're looking for a job, you're looking

for, you know, spiritual guidance.

805

You're looking for childcare, you're

looking for a school for your kids,

806

you're looking for a mentoring

program, you're looking for whatever.

807

We try to serve the people

as much as possible.

808

And I believe by the permission of all

law, this is what has made us attractive

809

to a lot of, uh, the community.

810

Mainly because, and, and, um, it's,

it's something that I say off, I

811

don't say it often, but the reality

is that Philadelphia is the poorest.

812

Big city in America.

813

And so, and so it's, it's our

duty to, to try and provide

814

as much resources as we can.

815

We, we don't, we, you know, our, our

facility says a whole lot more than,

816

than resources that we actually have,

but we try to tap in as much as we

817

can to, um, provide what we can.

818

So I just see our trajectory as continuing

to be, you know, an institution, a

819

resource for the community, whether

it's religious services, education,

820

community empowerment, so forth and so on.

821

And so that's really what the

founder's, I, you know, ideas was.

822

And we have inherited that

mission and take it seriously.

823

And Sharla will continue to

work upon that trajectory.

824

Sharla and

825

Imam Tariq: Sharla.

826

So you have a.

827

A national and an international

profile, as you mentioned, being

828

a part of the Obama foundation.

829

It was a, it was a fellowship,

it was a leadership cohort.

830

It was a leader leadership cohort.

831

Yes.

832

About a six month leadership cohort.

833

Yes, sir.

834

Okay.

835

Well, and actually I'm gonna rewind

myself and say congratulations.

836

'cause I don't think we

said congratulations to you.

837

Thank you, my brother.

838

On, on completing that.

839

And I wonder as you are present, like

I said, nationally, internationally, is

840

there a separation or a bifurcation, if

you will, between Imam Idris and Idris,

841

but do you think about a separation?

842

Imam Idris: that's a very

interesting question that you asked

843

me because as part of the Obama

cohort, we got a, uh, a coach.

844

Which I found very enriching.

845

Right?

846

And my particular coach had coach CEOs

and a bunch of folks that, you know,

847

doing really great things, right?

848

So, so I've been trying to

reconcile this for a while.

849

I've, for the most part, I've

kept those things separate, right?

850

Mm-hmm.

851

I'm, I, Emma is over here.

852

The the deputy CIO and the technical

guy and the, that's separate, right?

853

Right.

854

And what has happened is my profile

in both, while the Eman profile is, is

855

probably way higher than, than, than

me being known for my work, right?

856

My, my, you know, uh, there are times

when that kind of crosses, right?

857

And I can't avoid it, right?

858

Mm-hmm.

859

Um, and there's some part of me that is

exploring whether or not I'm serving well

860

to separate them right now, there's some,

some portion of it I, I have to do because

861

I work for the City of Philadelphia, and

there have to be some separation between.

862

Some of the things that you do

outside of this, city versus

863

what you do for the city.

864

Um, however what I've more lately have

evolved into the understanding is that

865

these are all places where, um, we're

looking to grow community, right?

866

We're, we're looking to add value

and try to be a change agent, right?

867

And so the characteristic of the

work is not, is no different, right?

868

Is just what field it's in.

869

And my approach to it certainly is

influenced by my understanding of

870

morality and all these things, and

certainly how I even, you know, the

871

leadership that I've learned from being

a leader in it and leading teams of, you

872

know, hundreds of people for years now.

873

Certainly has helped has been the,

actually one of the biggest helps to being

874

able to work with people in, in community.

875

So they both worked hand in hand.

876

And, um, and more recently we did a uh, a

business expo in the city of Philadelphia.

877

Hundreds of folks came out.

878

And in this expo, I I, you know, I

did a workshop on, you know, just,

879

uh, creating resilient businesses

using automation and ai, right?

880

Uh, now again, a lot of folks that came

and filled that classroom where the

881

Muslims from, from the mare, right?

882

But they're also interested

in business and technology,

883

Imam Tariq: right?

884

Imam Idris: So, so what I'm finding now

is that, that there's some parts of me

885

that I, that I've been keeping separate,

that I perhaps should be, sharing

886

with, with, you know, with everyone.

887

Because ultimately, um, you know, I'm,

I'm just trying to serve as a resource

888

for people, uh, wherever they come from

and whatever they need, that I can offer.

889

So, so I'm still, this, this is still a

work in progress and me still figuring

890

Imam Tariq: it out, Charla.

891

Yeah.

892

You know, and I think that's probably

a bit more close to the surface

893

surface in terms of awareness in an

environment of mass communication

894

and social media and branding.

895

And I don't say these things

with, uh, any negative, tilt at

896

all, but these are just mm-hmm.

897

These are things that we

have to, accommodate Yeah.

898

and take into consideration

and Absolutely.

899

Yeah.

900

So sometimes it does become, you

know, I know personally sometimes

901

there have been times where I'm like,

okay, well, do I put this under this

902

umbrella or do I put it under this?

903

And then, and then after a

while, everything is blurred.

904

So, yeah.

905

Um.

906

Imam Idris: You know, but that's kind

of the, well, and then I start thinking

907

about the, I, I start thinking about

what do my counterparts do, right?

908

So when I start, start thinking

about who's at the top of the

909

game, you start thinking about tv

Jakes and folks like that, right?

910

Yeah.

911

You know, they do movies, they, you know,

they preach on Sunday, they got podcasts,

912

they got TV shows, they, different

brands, but it's still the same guy.

913

And, and he's just, doing different

stuff in different places.

914

Uh, you know, and, um, I'm, I'm,

I'm not sure if we have a Muslim

915

example quite yet, this at that level.

916

Not yet.

917

But, 'cause most of us are kind

of like, you know, in one lane.

918

Mm-hmm.

919

But but again, I just think that, uh,

the opportunities are wide open and I

920

just think that as we go into this, you

know, new tech technological age, that

921

we gonna, you know, gotta take advantage

of all those mediums to get the word out.

922

Imam Tariq: Yeah.

923

Imam Idris: Get the message out.

924

Let's say that right.

925

Imam Tariq: Message out.

926

Right.

927

Well, tell me this, what has it

meant for you to be able to, to

928

be able to travel around the world

to be in these different spaces?

929

Is there a common theme that you

have observed in your travels or,

930

or there distinctions that make you

feel like, you know, this space is

931

really different than this space?

932

Imam Idris: So what I found is that,

933

you know, more recently when I was

on this trip to to Oxford and we were

934

asked to speak about, uh, our work in

the, into, in the interfaith space and

935

how we've navigated, you know, since

October 7th and being able to still have

936

coalitions that are effective, right.

937

Because there are a lot of folks that

just, you know, all, all interfaith

938

coalitions have, been broken down,

nobody talking to each other anymore.

939

And so while there, what I was

able to see was that you have

940

differences, natural differences

based upon your beliefs, right?

941

But there's a world of opportunity

based upon what you agree on and

942

whether we disagree on a thing or not.

943

What I've come to, what I've come

to is that I have decided to do my

944

best to be one that calls to peace

and reconciliation and tries to

945

call people, to, to civility, right?

946

And decency.

947

We are seeing right now what happens

when tragedy strikes and when

948

problems happen and chaos happens,

and then a leader can step into

949

a space and add fuel to the fire.

950

And then something that, could have

been managed, could have, led to better

951

understanding and deescalation, and

us honoring each other's humanity and

952

setting rules that say, even though we

may differ on certain things, right, we

953

don't want, harm to come to each other.

954

We don't want our places of

worship being under attack.

955

We want people to be able to

worship in peace and be able to you

956

know, take care of their families

and, and live a decent life.

957

We may never agree on some

of these things, right?

958

But as long as we are, we're not actively

working to harm each other, we're good.

959

Right?

960

And I just think that.

961

That's what I, that's what

I've seen in my travels, that

962

everybody's looking for safe space.

963

Everybody wants to establish

what they believe in you know,

964

in their way of life, right?

965

And no, no, most people

are not looking to harm.

966

And I think through engagement, we get

to learn about each other challenge each

967

other's differences and be able to create

real friendships so that when chaos

968

ensues or crisis happens when you are

not in the room, when the Christians are

969

speaking amongst the Christians, right?

970

We have allies there that say,

no, Muslims don't believe this.

971

Or let me get Eam Idris on the phone,

which has happened before, right?

972

There have been Christians that have said

things about beliefs of Muslims based

973

upon, you know, some radical, thing that

they heard, and a Christian pastor was

974

there, what was there, challenged it and

then called me and said, brother Eam,

975

like, you know, this is what I heard,

976

Imam Tariq: right?

977

Imam Idris: And listen, I'm their amen.

978

Right?

979

You know?

980

Right.

981

And, and, and, and I

confirm or, or whatever.

982

And I give them something

to share back, right?

983

And the same is, same

is true of me, right?

984

I'll, I'll call, you know, the

rabbi, I'll, I'll call the pastor.

985

I say, man, I heard this, da, da.

986

So it's creating allies in the room

where there are people where a lot

987

of times you're not present, right?

988

It's about what's said about you and

what decisions are made about you

989

when you're not in the room sometimes

that, that, that are super important.

990

And having allies in those rooms is super

important, especially for minorities.

991

So Muslims are the

minority in this country.

992

And it's important that we have those

allies, and I'm seeing that other

993

folks are looking the same way too.

994

evangelical Christian Christians are kind

of under attack right now because they're

995

mostly associated with white nationalism.

996

And then a blanket is put on

evangelicals across the board, right?

997

Whereas I know some, you know,

some, uh, evangelicals that, aren't

998

bigoted against Muslims, right?

999

They believe what they believe, right?

00:51:29,548 --> 00:51:29,868

Right.

00:51:29,888 --> 00:51:34,793

But, but they're not gonna do any

harm to Muslims or necessarily,

00:51:34,793 --> 00:51:36,383

you know, preach hate against us.

00:51:36,383 --> 00:51:36,593

Right.

00:51:36,593 --> 00:51:40,853

So I just think that again, everybody's

looking to be in a space where they're

00:51:40,853 --> 00:51:46,223

being respected, that their religious

beliefs and practices are, are honored.

00:51:46,653 --> 00:51:48,843

And that they don't come

un under attack for that.

00:51:48,843 --> 00:51:49,113

Right?

00:51:49,173 --> 00:51:52,173

Um, and that's what, that's

what I'm seeing in these spaces.

00:51:52,173 --> 00:51:54,213

Now, again, that's if they're

showing up aau, you know,

00:51:54,213 --> 00:51:56,043

authentically themselves, but Right.

00:51:56,073 --> 00:51:57,603

Um, that's the common thread.

00:51:57,603 --> 00:52:05,093

And I just think that, um, that, uh, what

I've decided to be is one that calls to

00:52:05,093 --> 00:52:10,043

decency and incivility and, and trying

to find common ground because, you know,

00:52:10,073 --> 00:52:13,583

um, we've seen what the opposite of

that is and it's not good for anybody.

00:52:13,583 --> 00:52:13,823

Right.

00:52:13,823 --> 00:52:15,443

So, absolutely.

00:52:16,223 --> 00:52:19,943

Imam Tariq: Hey, man, Madres, I really

appreciate you carving some time out.

00:52:20,453 --> 00:52:24,403

I would love, I'll do to to dig a bit

deeper, uh, and there's a whole lot we

00:52:24,403 --> 00:52:28,573

haven't talked about and I hope that means

that at some time in the future you'd

00:52:28,573 --> 00:52:32,143

be willing to come back on, hopefully

that, but before you go, yes sir.

00:52:32,473 --> 00:52:38,443

I would like for you to finish

this prompt, and that is the one

00:52:38,443 --> 00:52:41,113

lesson I continue to learn is.

00:52:42,133 --> 00:52:43,213

Oh man, come on bro.

00:52:43,213 --> 00:52:44,983

You going drop us a crazy,

00:52:45,463 --> 00:52:48,128

Imam Idris: oh, man, that's a,

that's a heavy one right there, man.

00:52:49,148 --> 00:52:52,843

The one lesson that I continue

to learn is that a law is God.

00:52:53,273 --> 00:53:00,113

that, um, we put a whole lot of

stock in our abilities and what we

00:53:00,113 --> 00:53:01,823

can do and all this kind of stuff.

00:53:02,033 --> 00:53:06,923

Don't get me wrong, Allah prominent, you

know, basically set, you know, set tells

00:53:06,923 --> 00:53:08,603

us that we have to do our part, right?

00:53:08,688 --> 00:53:12,018

You know, but ultimately

God's will is gonna be right.

00:53:12,228 --> 00:53:18,058

Um, and, um, and he shows up quite often.

00:53:18,148 --> 00:53:22,668

And, the thing that you were working on

trying to fix yourself, you know, along,

00:53:22,858 --> 00:53:29,188

snaps, you know, you know, uh, uh, uh,

you know, metaphorically snaps a finger

00:53:29,188 --> 00:53:31,288

and you know, and it happens, right?

00:53:31,288 --> 00:53:31,648

So.

00:53:32,038 --> 00:53:37,588

And there are things that have transpired

in my life that I know no one could

00:53:37,588 --> 00:53:39,358

have orchestrated other than God.

00:53:39,968 --> 00:53:43,808

The fact that I'm sitting here talking to

you and, and we have all this history to

00:53:43,808 --> 00:53:48,128

talk about and the accomplishments in the

last, you know, five or six years or so.

00:53:48,408 --> 00:53:52,128

Some of the things that I've been

able to do I know is only by law.

00:53:52,278 --> 00:53:55,838

'cause because, uh, you

know, it, it really was not

00:53:55,838 --> 00:53:57,368

something that I aimed to do.

00:53:57,468 --> 00:54:04,448

But Allah was, was certainly gracious

enough and merciful enough to give me

00:54:04,448 --> 00:54:08,978

opportunities that, that he felt you

know, I, I would do well with how he left.

00:54:08,978 --> 00:54:13,728

So, so I know I, I, I absolutely

know a law's got I absolutely,

00:54:13,728 --> 00:54:15,528

my trust in the law has grown.

00:54:16,078 --> 00:54:17,668

We say we trust the law, right?

00:54:17,668 --> 00:54:17,968

But.

00:54:18,478 --> 00:54:22,558

You know, but you get some, you

get some situations that make

00:54:22,558 --> 00:54:24,238

you really, really trust the law.

00:54:24,238 --> 00:54:25,273

Right, right.

00:54:25,378 --> 00:54:25,558

Yeah.

00:54:25,918 --> 00:54:27,268

Because there's nothing

else you can do about it.

00:54:27,268 --> 00:54:27,448

Right.

00:54:27,448 --> 00:54:27,778

So,

00:54:28,378 --> 00:54:28,768

Imam Tariq: that's right.

00:54:28,828 --> 00:54:29,338

Absolutely.

00:54:29,338 --> 00:54:30,208

Allah is God, bro.

00:54:30,868 --> 00:54:31,228

Alright.

00:54:31,858 --> 00:54:34,868

I appreciate you, me, and I'll

continue to bless you your

00:54:34,868 --> 00:54:38,918

family, community leadership,

and I'll continue to expand you.

00:54:40,088 --> 00:54:41,048

I mean, and you too, my

00:54:41,048 --> 00:54:41,348

Imam Idris: brother.

00:54:41,348 --> 00:54:43,208

I, I, I really appreciate

what you're doing.

00:54:43,638 --> 00:54:47,373

You know, again, I, I, I, I watched

the show and, and listened to the, uh,

00:54:47,673 --> 00:54:51,858

the interviews and, uh, you're doing a

service to our community that I think

00:54:51,858 --> 00:54:55,838

oftentimes we overlook, uh, having

people on, especially like Sister Aisha,

00:54:56,348 --> 00:54:58,628

uh, Mustafa, you know, uh, oh man.

00:54:58,628 --> 00:54:59,798

To talk about the history.

00:55:00,008 --> 00:55:02,438

I mean, this is, this is stuff

that, you know, people are doing

00:55:02,438 --> 00:55:04,388

documentaries on now and mm-hmm.

00:55:04,883 --> 00:55:09,888

Capturing our history is important that

we honor and, and bring on folks that are

00:55:09,888 --> 00:55:13,708

sharing, that are sharing the history,

but also, you know, uh, doing some

00:55:13,708 --> 00:55:15,028

great things that we all can learn from.

00:55:15,613 --> 00:55:16,663

Absolutely time.

00:55:16,813 --> 00:55:17,263

Thank you though.

00:55:17,623 --> 00:55:17,923

Alright.

00:55:18,703 --> 00:55:19,153

Imam Tariq: Alright.

00:55:19,153 --> 00:55:20,683

That is it for this episode.

00:55:20,688 --> 00:55:20,738

Thank.

00:55:20,738 --> 00:55:20,978

Thank we.

00:55:20,983 --> 00:55:21,733

Thank you for joining us.

00:55:22,033 --> 00:55:25,903

We hope that you found value in the

conversation, and if you have, please

00:55:25,903 --> 00:55:27,733

do consider sharing and subscribing.

00:55:28,183 --> 00:55:31,723

You can keep up with us on social

media at the American Muslim Podcast

00:55:31,723 --> 00:55:36,703

at me at Imam Tariq El-Amin, and

now we leave you as we greeted you.

00:55:36,953 --> 00:55:40,423

As Salaamu Alaikum made the peace

that only God can give be upon you.