Sandra Lopez is a marketing dynamo who has been in marketing leadership and general management roles in many of the world's biggest and most influential tech companies, like Adobe, Intel, and Microsoft. She recently served as co-chair for the World Economic Forum for Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality. She also serves on the Board of Directors for Junior Achievement USA and PureRED, she's an advisor for Cabra Sports, and she is the co-chair for Sports Integrity Global Alliance.

We discuss:

• How to translate marketing-speak into language that CFOs and Board members can understand
• How to work with Board members who think they know more about marketing than they actually do
• How to manage expectations with Boards about how long things take in marketing and educate along the way, understanding that "it's hard to educate someone in 30 minutes"
• How to prepare for Board service – and knowing when to say no to a Board opportunity
• How interviewing for a Board seat is different from interviewing for a CMO spot

Key Links

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lopezsandra/

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The Get is here to drive smart decisions around recruiting and leadership in B2B SaaS marketing. We explore the trends, tribulations, and triumphs of today’s top marketing leaders in B2B SaaS.

This season’s theme is the CMO and Board Relationship in B2B SaaS. 

The Get’s host is Erica Seidel, who runs The Connective Good, an executive search practice with a hyper-focus on recruiting CMOs and VPs of Marketing, especially in B2B SaaS. 

If you are looking to hire a CMO or VP of Marketing of the ‘make money’ variety - rather than the ‘make it pretty’ variety, contact Erica at erica@theconnectivegood.com. You can also follow Erica on LinkedIn or sign up for her newsletter at TheConnectiveGood.com. 

The Get is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media Productions.

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Erica Seidel: 00:00:03

Hello, and welcome to The Get.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:05

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:07

This season we examine the relationship between CMOs and Boards.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:11

How can that relationship go from fraught to functional,

Erica Seidel: 00:00:14

and maybe even to fantastic?

Erica Seidel: 00:00:17

Today, we hear from Sandra Lopez.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:19

She is a marketing dynamo who has been in marketing, leadership, and general manager

Erica Seidel: 00:00:23

roles in many of the world's biggest and most influential tech companies

Erica Seidel: 00:00:27

like Adobe, Intel, and Microsoft.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:30

She recently served as co-chair for the World Economic Forum for

Erica Seidel: 00:00:33

Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:36

She also serves on the Board of Directors for Junior Achievement USA and PureRED.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:41

She's an advisor for Cabra Sports and is the co-chair for

Erica Seidel: 00:00:45

Sports Integrity Global Alliance.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:47

You'll hear about how to educate the Board on how long things take in marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:51

As she says, it's hard to educate someone in thirty minutes, so

Erica Seidel: 00:00:54

you have to think creatively.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:56

You'll also learn about how to prepare for a Board position and

Erica Seidel: 00:00:59

how to put your best foot forward when you interview with a Board.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:02

And, we discuss how nonprofit Board work, chosen wisely, can be a great

Erica Seidel: 00:01:07

segue to for-profit Board work.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:10

Here we go.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:15

Sandra Lopez, welcome to the show.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:17

Glad to have you on The Get and excited to hear your perspectives.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:21

Thank you for having me on board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:22

Looking forward to having this conversation.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:24

Maybe you could just start by sharing an overview of your

Erica Seidel: 00:01:27

career path, cuz it's been such an interesting path that you've followed.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:31

You know, you know your B2B marketing, you know your B2C marketing, you know brand,

Erica Seidel: 00:01:35

you know demand, like the whole shebang.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:36

Can you kind- kind of just, you know, coalesce it a little bit?

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:40

I always like to say I was kind of born and bred in Silicon Valley,

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:42

so technology at the heart of everything.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:45

And I always had the aspiration to be a Chief Marketing Officer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:48

And, without anybody telling me as a mentor or sponsor, I just

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:53

wanted to do my own journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:54

I wanted to create my own music, and so I created my own songbook in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:58

of what could that possibly look like.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:01

And what I knew is that whenever I became a CMO, I really wanted to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:05

understand the various solutions of what entailed marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:08

So I jumped from small company to large company, did everything

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:13

from lead generation to brand strategy, worked in New York

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:18

City, came back to Silicon Valley.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:21

And so I would say that my career trajectory, I always have to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:25

say the analogy, in, like, ways.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:26

I directionally knew where I wanted to go, but I also allowed myself to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:30

explore the unexpected neighborhoods.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:33

And that's where I did a pivot into the business unit, running a

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:38

division, in particular wearables.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:40

And then I went into sports media.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:42

And a couple things I learned from that pivot.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:45

One, I learned things about myself that I didn't know I was capable of,

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:48

whether it's business development, effectively managing a P&L.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:53

And then how important it was to understand business language when

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:59

it came to leading a marketing organization and driving those

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:04

conversations to a C-level leadership team and/or your Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:09

And so I'm unconventional.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:11

Typically know where I wanna go, but I allow myself to explore

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:14

and, and I will continue to do so.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:17

I love this ways analogy.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:19

I think that's great.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:20

Do you think everybody who's an aspiring CMO should take a GM role,

Erica Seidel: 00:03:26

or do you think it's, like, enough for them to kind of take a GM perspective

Erica Seidel: 00:03:30

within their marketing domain?

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:33

Listen, I think everybody has their own journey, and all I can share

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:38

is my particular point of view based on the type of leader that I want to be.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:43

So if I'm a CMO focused on tangible business, we know that oftentimes when

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:50

we're on an economic pitch, what happens?

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:52

Your budget's decreased, headcount marketing's one of the first organizations

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:57

that are going to be impacted.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:59

But if you change the conversation and be able to illustrate how

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:02

marketing drove tangible growth and/or helped enter into adjacent

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:08

markets, I do believe understanding running a P&L is very, very important.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:13

You're much more attuned to, we're gonna do a brand strategy.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:17

Let's think about potential ASP uplift.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:20

Let's do some financial modeling, work very closely with the CFO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:24

Um, and not working closely with the CFO in the context of like,

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:27

what's your, you know, above the line, below the line budget.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:29

It's a very different conversation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:31

If you wanna be a CMO that's really leaning into creativity, then maybe

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:38

not necessarily you don't have to become a GM and you're looking at

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:42

more psychology, sociology, and becoming much more of a culturist.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:46

So I think it really depends on what type of CMO you wanna be.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:50

And I try to do a hybrid of growth that in order to be a great CMO,

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:53

you need to understand your consumer and where they're going and what's

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:58

happening around them, both for business customer and/or a consumer customer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:03

And at the same time really understanding like, how do you drive marketing as a P&L?

Erica Seidel: 00:05:10

Makes sense.

Erica Seidel: 00:05:11

Can you share, since we're talking a lot about, you know, CMOs and

Erica Seidel: 00:05:14

Board relationships, can you share a hard-won lesson you have had, um,

Erica Seidel: 00:05:18

from interacting with, with a Board?

Erica Seidel: 00:05:20

Any Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:21

I always like to say strategy without

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:22

execution's pure hallucination.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:23

So I like to be a strategist and be able to execute with my team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:27

The role of a Board of Directors is ask the hard questions so you can help guide

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:33

them and advise them towards, you know, their overall trajectory in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:36

whatever their strategic imperatives are.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:38

And so moving from the doing and advising and knowing when to step

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:43

back has been the mental rigor and challenge that I've had to take on.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:49

So it's really about asking the right questions and providing point of view,

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:55

and, ultimately, it's the C-level and the leadership team that have to decide

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:59

what's best for the organization.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:01

So that shift was a struggle for me, and I still find myself sometimes wanting

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:06

to, like, roll up my sleeves, help drive some of the strategies to execution.

Erica Seidel: 00:06:11

Is there something you tell yourself when you're worried that

Erica Seidel: 00:06:14

you're gonna kind of dive into execution and, and, but you want, really wanna

Erica Seidel: 00:06:17

come up with a good question instead?

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:20

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:20

I have to remind myself every single time when I'm either part of the

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:22

committee conversation and/or at the Board meeting, and we're having the

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:26

one-to-one with the CEO, remember, my responsibility and accountability is to

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:32

advise them towards the right path based on the goals that we have all agreed to,

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:38

and knowing when to take a step back.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:41

And so I do that in every single interaction.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:45

A lot of it's just practicing, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:46

So I'm fairly new about a, you know, over a year in, in Junior Achievement,

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:50

which is a nonprofit, less than a year with the private Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:55

And I do think it takes conditioning just like anything.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:58

And so I'm just, you know, practicing my trade, learning how to be the

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:02

best Board of Directors for the companies that I said I would like to

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:07

participate and believe I can add value.

Erica Seidel: 00:07:09

Can you talk about how you've educated a Board about marketing,

Erica Seidel: 00:07:12

if you have, and what that looks like?

Erica Seidel: 00:07:15

What teaching like, because many, many Board members don't have

Erica Seidel: 00:07:18

marketing backgrounds and they might think that they know more about

Erica Seidel: 00:07:21

marketing than they actually do.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

Interesting.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

And we were talking about this earlier, that apparently there's only about

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:27

forty Board members with marketing pedigree for Fortune 1000 and above.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:32

And so it's not familiar with the Board of Directors, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:37

There's a lot of people, the CEO, supply chain officers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:40

And so when you're asking questions when it comes to marketing, this is where my

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:46

P&L general management come into play.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:48

I don't ask the traditional brand awareness questions.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:53

I think about, let's take a look at our revenue growth year projection.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:59

So I translate a lot of what is important to marketing in the language

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:04

that will be familiar to CEOs, CFO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:07

Cuz you have to remember, like your Board of Directors and your fellow

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:10

colleagues come from a different pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:13

And so as a CMO marketer, you find yourself oftentimes translating the

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:18

language of marketing into vocabulary in which the CFO and CEO can really get

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:24

behind and lean into the conversation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:26

The worst thing is you bring a point and everybody just dismisses you.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:30

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:30

And so how do you bring a point that has people thinking and really

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:35

leaning in so that we can advise the CEO and/or the leadership team in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:41

of possible paths to move forward with?

Erica Seidel: 00:08:43

And do you feel like CEOs and CFOs sometimes glom onto certain

Erica Seidel: 00:08:47

terms of marketing but not others?

Erica Seidel: 00:08:49

You know, so in another one of these podcasts we talked about how there

Erica Seidel: 00:08:52

are some terms that people just get.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:54

You know, they get ICP, they get persona.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:57

They get positioning more than they get branding, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:09:00

And, and have you, have you found that to be the case where there's,

Erica Seidel: 00:09:03

like, some terms that, that fly and that other marketing terms just flop?

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:09

I mean, I think it's one of those things that's just

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:10

the perception that we have, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:12

So I do believe what transpires is there's a perception of marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:17

Marketing is about value proposition, positioning, logos, the PowerPoint

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:23

presentation, helping sales sell n.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:26

And that's all familiar.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:29

And where you start to kind of gloss over is when you start to think about, uh,

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:34

you know, they're all familiar with CTR.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:35

They've evolved one part of the digital transformation, but you

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:38

start to think about well, long-term value to customer acquisition,

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:43

and then you start to translate that and a CFO gets it right away.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:47

So I do think there is this bias, you know, talking about customer

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:53

segmentation and new customer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:54

They get all of that.

Erica Seidel: 00:09:55

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:56

And then the question is, well, how is that going to translate

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:59

to meaningful business impact?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:00

Cuz oftentimes in the Board of Directors, you're there to help grow.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:03

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:04

And so when you're thinking about questions that you wanna ask,

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:08

and I oftentimes think about like, how am I gonna frame this question-

Erica Seidel: 00:10:11

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:12

-so that the CEOs of other companies that are part

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:14

of Board of Directors or CEOs understand what I'm trying to get at?

Erica Seidel: 00:10:20

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:20

Is there any other example of, like, a before and after

Erica Seidel: 00:10:23

framing that comes to mind?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:26

It's easy to say, hey, we're gonna go upmarket and reach a

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:30

particular new customer sec- section.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:32

Sure.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:33

And I'm just gonna be careful I'm not disclosing

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:35

information of confidential, so I'll give you just like a generic example.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:39

We're gonna go after this new customer segment and then the question will

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:44

be, well, let's think about that segment and the cost of entry.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:48

Right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:49

What will be the ROI?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:50

What is the additional revenue that could be generated if we're

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:54

gonna bring on this new customers?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:56

This customer segment carries this.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:58

This is the demographics.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:59

This is the attitudes.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:01

This is what we think of the market opportunity at a high level.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:03

But like you gotta keep on pushing.

Erica Seidel: 00:11:05

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:06

Yeah, this is maybe a market size that represents

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:11

$1 billion, potentially.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:13

That's a total tamp.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:14

But how, have we done the analysis of what this segment will bring from

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:20

additive revenue over the next five years?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:23

How much do we need to invest?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:25

What does that investment strategy look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:27

So that goes back to the the, to eventually capture that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:30

What happens from an operations standpoint?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:32

What happens from customer service?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:34

This new customer segment is radically different from our current

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:38

customer base, which means that we have to operate differently.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:43

So this is not just an exercise around new customer segmentation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:46

This is like operations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:47

You have to think about customer service.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:50

There are so many elements that come into play, and so that's one example

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:54

that I always like to use is that it's easy to have the CMO come in, talk

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:59

about new market segment, and then it's your job as a Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:02

And being a marketer, like many of us have gone through this before.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:06

We know that it's just much more than doing effective direct marketing

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:09

and using digital marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:11

There are elements that come into play that touch other organizations.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:14

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:15

So really thinking about that and kind of framing

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:17

those conversations is like another example that I like to use, typically

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:20

marketers are really good at, is in terms of knowing your customer,

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:23

what does segmentation look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:26

But what does it really mean to enter into that market segment?

Erica Seidel: 00:12:31

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:31

Do you need to hire different types of personnel in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:34

of driving conversations with them?

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:37

So really framing it, going back to, I always like to say, like, you

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:40

just go back to think like a CFO.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:43

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:43

I think that really helps.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:45

And we, because we have only forty or so CMOs in the Board of Directors,

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:50

we have the responsibility on our shoulders to illustrate that we

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:54

can drive very meaningful business.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:58

Have you seen a really good way of learning how to

Erica Seidel: 00:13:01

be that CMO who thinks like a CFO?

Erica Seidel: 00:13:04

You know, is it shadowing the CFO?

Erica Seidel: 00:13:06

Is it, um, I, I don't know.

Erica Seidel: 00:13:09

Like, asking for, you know, like, you know, sharing goals and, and,

Erica Seidel: 00:13:15

and coming up with some kind of, like, translation dictionary or

Erica Seidel: 00:13:17

something like, like, like is there anything that comes to mind there?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:20

I love all your ideas.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:21

So shadowing's always great.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:23

And then oftentimes, you know, they're not necessarily available

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:25

cuz you have a busy calendar.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:27

So you have to kind of be realistic in terms of what's feasible.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:30

And so if you think about an exercise that you're doing in marketing, so

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:34

let's think about the hottest thing in performance based marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:13:37

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:38

Right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:38

Everybody's talking about that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:40

It requires digital transformation, which oftentimes means you

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:43

need to sit down with your CTO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:45

Can you sit down with your CFO and agree on the L to beta cap ratio?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:50

What does that mean?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:51

And what does that look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:52

Can you start modeling P&Ls?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:54

I always like to tell individuals, kind of hate the word performance marketing,

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:58

cuz the reality is you're a mini GM.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:01

You're responsible for revenue and hitting targets, and in order to

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:06

drive performance-based marketing, you have a Mar- MarTech stack

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:09

that's underneath, which actually costs me whether it's licensing-

Erica Seidel: 00:14:12

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:12

Whether you're working with your IT department to build out

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:15

some technology and features, which they're gonna charge back to you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:19

And so that to me is like, it's the spirit of like, there's cost, there's

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:23

revenue, there's efficiencies, and there's margins that you have to [inaudible].

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:27

So performance-based marketers, to me, I always tell 'em like,

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:30

you guys are running a P&L.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:32

Like reframe what your accountability responsibility is.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:37

And I know if you have, if you're co-dependent, if you have a sales

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:40

department and they're not getting the lead flow, they're gonna point

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:43

fingers at you because they need that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:45

And so you're directly tied to revenue.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:48

And so that's one example that I think you can sit there with your

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:52

CFO and you bring them along the journey and build a relationship.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:56

And so you have to meet with your CFO then on a monthly basis and/or

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:00

like a weekly basis, depending on how you're looking at your numbers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:04

And then you start to, like, have those times to ask curiosity and

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:07

ask them about different things.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:09

Oftentimes, when you are looking at brand architecture strategies and

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:13

you're redeveloping an entire, you have multiple logos you're trying to simplify.

Erica Seidel: 00:15:17

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:18

Will that impact in terms of lesser choice?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:21

Is it gonna cannibalize one or the other products?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:24

That's yet another opportunity to bring a CFO into the journey and talk

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:28

about, let's do some modeling together.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:32

Oftentimes what I had seen is brand architecture strategies that

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:37

talk about the business rationale, but there's no financial number.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:41

They'll talk to you about what it's gonna cost, what it's gonna cost to

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:43

overhaul the entire thing and all the collateral that needs to get

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:46

updated, both analog and digital.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:50

Yet I never see if we were to simplify the brand, what could this

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:55

look like on the financial side?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:57

Or if we're gonna do a massive brand transition and reposition

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:01

the brand in its totality from one point to another point, will it

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:06

alienate your existing customer base?

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:08

And if so, well what, what could that be from a sales perspective?

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:12

So you can model all this stuff.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:13

You can, sitting down with the CMO, there are tools and there abilities.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:16

I've done this before.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:16

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:17

And so I would say to any CMO or any marketing person that's eager

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:21

to go into a Board seat and starting to, like, practice the language of the CFOs,

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:25

take some existing projects where you're like, wow, if I were to do this with a

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:30

CFO, what could we model financially?

Erica Seidel: 00:16:33

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:34

And then over time, your CFO becomes your mentor and an advisor to you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:37

And, and that's what happened to me when I was at Intel I had an invi-

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:41

individual helped guide me as we were going through marketing strategy,

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:45

repositioning efforts, and really understanding the overall business.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:49

So CMOs can fail, as you know, um, because Boards and

Erica Seidel: 00:16:53

CEOs have these expectations of, you know, you should be able to do

Erica Seidel: 00:16:56

marketing, you know, overnight and turn around something overnight.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:59

And then CMOs, so there's this debate about, you know, like,

Erica Seidel: 00:17:02

oh, you should do this faster.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:03

And then a CMO will say, oh, it, it takes time.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:06

How do you think marketing leaders can kind of manage those expectations with

Erica Seidel: 00:17:10

Boards about how long things take?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:13

You're absolutely right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:15

Uh, there's a lot of education and oftentimes, we've had this

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:19

conversation in the past, that everybody feels they can do marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:21

Yes.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:22

You know, I learned a framework that I thought was very helpful

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:24

that came from [inaudible], which is the strategic decision-making framework.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:28

If you're going on a journey and you're seeking to solve a problem,

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:31

oftentimes, like, your C-level, and yourself, you're not on the same page

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:35

of what problem you're trying to solve.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:37

So go in and understand, like, what problem are we solving?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:40

Are we, are we on the same position?

Erica Seidel: 00:17:42

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:42

The other thing, too, is, like, and what are the milestones?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:45

Here's why it takes time to do market research, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:17:48

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:49

We want to capture, not only part of our customer segment,

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:53

we are a global brand by very nature.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:55

We have to go to Europe, we have to go to, like, Asia, and

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:59

we want to enlarge sampling.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:01

And we also wanna pivot along the way as we're learning about some

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:03

research around specific focus groups.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:06

And we wanna get this right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:08

Because once you get the idea, then you go into execution and it's gonna

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:11

cost much more if we get it wrong.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:14

So there's going to be five-month window of market research, and then

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:19

they'll, you go into production and, like, why does production take forever?

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:23

And you just have to explain in terms of what you're trying to get accomplished

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:27

and how you're gonna pull it out.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:29

And so oftentimes what I find myself learning is that you have to bring

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:34

your C-level onto the journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:37

And I always like to do, like, here's critical milestones.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:39

Hey, we learned this from this focus group in the United States and in Europe.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:43

Here's what we're learning.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:44

It didn't necessarily, necessarily align to our hypothesis.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:47

We think we're gonna pivot.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:47

Here are three options.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:49

What are your thoughts?

Erica Seidel: 00:18:51

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:51

So now a person's, like, actually joining you

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:54

on your journey and as part.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:57

And you help educate along the way.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:58

So you've gotta look at these big, strategic initiatives as

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:01

opportunities to help educate and bring them along the journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:04

And I always do check checkpoints.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:06

And I know sometimes my team members are like, you're slowing down the process

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:09

because you're sitting down with your C, you know, C-level, and I'm like, no,

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:12

actually I'm speeding up the process.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:14

So when we're down the road and my CEO has some feedback, which

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:18

requires us to go back and redo production, that elongates the process.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:23

So, thinking about these check-ins with your senior leadership is important.

Erica Seidel: 00:19:27

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:28

Realize it's always an education and ask a lot of

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:32

questions like, why do you think focus groups should take point?

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:35

How do you think the process is?

Erica Seidel: 00:19:37

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:38

Well, let me tell you why the process is the way

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:40

it's, it is, and we're learning and adjusting and we'll do technology

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:43

to move the process much faster.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:45

It used to be, you know, eight months, now we're doing five months.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:48

So I, I do think, like, also asking why do they believe something should

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:53

be done a certain way helps strive self-awareness that they really

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:57

don't understand the underpinnings.

Erica Seidel: 00:19:59

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:00

Yeah.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:00

That's really smart.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:01

And the, the idea that people don't learn something in half an hour, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:20:04

It's like in, in the way you educate somebody is not by saying like,

Erica Seidel: 00:20:07

everything you're doing is wrong.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:08

This is how you should do it.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:10

It's, it's almost like you kind of sidle up to them and you're like, oh,

Erica Seidel: 00:20:14

eight out the ten things, ten ways you see this are right, and then here

Erica Seidel: 00:20:17

are the remaining two need to be, you know, kind of adjusted in this way.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:22

I do think it's much more of a discussion.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:24

Listen, you're on the same team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:26

I mean, fundamentally like you and your leadership are on the same team

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:29

and you're creating the playbook.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:30

And so sometimes like the playbook, like, oh, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:34

Your C-level has a point of view that I could have overlooked.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:37

And you're like, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:38

Your point's extremely valid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:39

I'm gonna take that in.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:40

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:40

And in some cases, they have a very strong point of

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:43

view, and based on all your history and knowledge, you're like, this is

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:46

gonna send us in the wrong direction.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:47

And you just have to take time and say, let me show you the pros and cons.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:51

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:51

What I've learned is like, don't say no right

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:54

away to your leadership.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:55

Provide the framework, help them understand so that you can land in

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:00

the best outcome for the shareholders.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:02

I always say, like, at the end of the day, we're on the same team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:05

It's about the shareholders, and when I say shareholders, it's the, your

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:08

employees, the C-level, the Board of Directors, if you have stock, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:21:13

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:21:14

Let me segue a little bit here, and I would love to hear your thoughts

Erica Seidel: 00:21:18

about nonprofit Boards as a way for marketing leaders to kind of

Erica Seidel: 00:21:23

get some practice and transition towards being on for-profit Boards.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:28

Listen, I've had amazing mentors helping me guide me through

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:33

the path to Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:35

And I started, I was three years before I landed my first Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:39

And everybody has a different point of view, everybody's gonna advise you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:42

And so again, I'm gonna provide one perspective.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:46

I was o- open to a nonprofit Board, but I've also worked on nonprofits

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:49

before in terms of giving my time.

Erica Seidel: 00:21:51

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:52

And so you have to pick judiciously.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:54

What do you wanna get out of it?

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:56

So I wanted to get my practice in a, yes, I've done some Board readiness

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:00

programs, but nothing, like, you can do all the training, but it's

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:04

nothing like showing up and planning.

Erica Seidel: 00:22:06

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:06

And so, I looked at who was leading the Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:10

I looked at the Board composition, and they were all highly successful

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:15

C-level executives that have Board experience of private and public.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:20

And I knew that in how they run their operations gave me the feeling

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:26

of a private and/or public Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:28

So I decided to do that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:30

That was the right thing for me.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:32

And so when I tell people, like, really think about the Board that

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:35

you wanna join your first one.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:37

Look at what you're trying to get out of it.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:38

And so in this profit one, it aligns to my values in giving

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:42

back to the future generation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:44

So synergistically, I'm like, yes, love Junior Achievement.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:47

They were part of my life when I was growing up.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:49

Two, I look at the composition.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:51

What does it look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:52

And three, how do they function?

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:55

And they function very akin to a private Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:58

And so that gives me the exposure, the experience, and bringing that value to

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:04

another private Board in terms of just getting that practice in and knowing what

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:08

I'm responsible for as Board of Directors.

Erica Seidel: 00:23:11

How did you figure out how they functioned?

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:14

There's a lot of Board readiness curriculum

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:17

that exists out there.

Erica Seidel: 00:23:18

Sure.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:18

So you have the National Association of Corporate Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:21

You take a look at them.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:23

They have some programs.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:24

Julie, who's the CEO of How We Lead here in San Francisco, has

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:28

a robust Board readiness program.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:30

And you learn.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:31

You learn what's expected of you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:33

You also learn the liability that you have for publicly traded companies.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:37

You also learn the time required.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:38

Everybody's, like, thinks that you're gonna be there for the one supporter.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:42

And no, it's a lot more that you have to contribute.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:45

You have to be well-read.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:47

You have to read the materials in advance.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:49

You have most, part of a committee.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:51

So if you're part of the committee, you have to meet outside of the Board meeting.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:56

And so my recommendation is participate in Board readiness programs.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:02

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:02

And you'll meet, will build your network and some of them will

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:05

land Boards and a lot of that landing a Board is not dissimilar from a job in

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:10

terms of the power of the networking.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:13

If somebody's gonna recommend you for a particular Board,

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:16

and that's how the doors open.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:18

So both of the Boards that I've landed have been part of my network.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:21

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:22

Not been me necessarily knowing that Board positions open and

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:26

reaching out to the CEO and the chairman.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:28

It has been through my network.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:31

Let's talk about interviewing with Boards, like whether

Erica Seidel: 00:24:33

that's for a Board seat or a CMO seat.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:37

How should they, uh, kind of prepare?

Erica Seidel: 00:24:39

How should they appear, and what questions might be most, you know, surprising,

Erica Seidel: 00:24:42

you know, based on your experience?

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:44

At least in my experience, it's so different

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:46

from delay landing you a job.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:50

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:50

Because they've already identified you based

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:53

on the background and pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:55

In most cases, they already know, and that you've already been highly recommended

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:58

by somebody in your network that, you know, Sandra would be a very great fit.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:02

Here's her pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:03

Here's what she's done.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:04

She's really great for digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:06

You know, she's an advocate for the underrepresented community,

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:10

and so she can add value from an people, culture standpoint as well.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:13

They know you're background.

Erica Seidel: 00:25:15

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:15

It is all pretty much done.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:16

So you're just sitting there and you're having conversations just to see can,

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:21

can I sit there with you for a couple hours and have meaningful business

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:25

conversations during the Board meeting?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:28

Can I sit there and have that dinner conversation with you?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:30

Oftentimes, there's a dinner the day before, the night of.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:33

It's about clicking.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:35

You have to click as a Board and you are also personality wise, can I

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:41

get along with the various members?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:42

And you interview with a couple, you know, not all of 'em, and you have conversations

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:46

about your personal life, philosophies.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:49

And I would, what I'd suggest is like just be yourself.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:52

Just be yourself.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:53

They'll get to know you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:54

They're just getting to know you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:55

You're getting to know them.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:56

Yes, prepare about the company.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:58

People will say, take every Board interview because you expand your network.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:03

I've taken a different approach, like I've, people reached out to me for

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:06

various Board positions and I remember one, it was all about supply chain

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:10

and it was about transportation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:12

And I was so honored that they considered me and they were considering

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:15

me from a digital transformation, but I was looking at the Board

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:18

requirements and the skillsets that they were looking for, the top three,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:22

and I'm like, I have none of that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:23

And I said to the, uh, individual that was recruiting for him,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:26

I'm like, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:28

Super honored.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:29

Yet it's not gonna be the right fit because I will not add

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:32

value for what they're looking for from a talent perspective.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:36

And yes, could I appreciate networking with them?

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:39

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:39

But I'm also, time is very, it's the most precious commodity.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:42

If I already know I'm not gonna be the right fit, I decided to bow out.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:46

And so people are gonna give you different advice.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:48

Other people would say, like, you should have taken, you know,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:49

you should have gone through the interview process and met more people.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:52

And I'm like, that's okay.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:54

The time is too precious.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:55

So we have all different ways of how to land Boards and recommendations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:59

Mine is one recommendation of many on your journey to be a Board member.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:04

Then, I would say, look at the requirements.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:07

Know what your contribution is going to be.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:09

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:10

Be very crystal clear about that because they're gonna

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:13

look to your filling an important role and oftentimes when, in some

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:18

of the Boards they're gonna pay you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:20

Think about the ROI that you're delivering.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:23

Are they getting every dime's worth out of what they're compensating

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:27

you for to be at Board of Directors?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:29

Yeah, and I feel it's the same thing when you're

Erica Seidel: 00:27:31

interviewing for a CMO job, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:33

If you get a, a, you know, approached about a job and it's not quite the right

Erica Seidel: 00:27:37

fit for you, it's probably better to kind of educate whoever it is, the recruiter,

Erica Seidel: 00:27:42

the CEO, you know, whatever, because it's, it's, it's like good karma, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:46

Like you, you know, the person might then say, oh, okay, this

Erica Seidel: 00:27:48

is maybe not the right fit.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:50

But then there's something else that, you know, like the recruit, like

Erica Seidel: 00:27:53

I've had that conversation with, with candidates where they're like, okay, no,

Erica Seidel: 00:27:55

sounds like you're looking for A, B, C.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:58

I'm more X, Y, Z, and then I might call them up in a month, like,

Erica Seidel: 00:28:00

oh, actually you said X, Y, Z.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:02

You clarified and, and you know, here we have something

Erica Seidel: 00:28:04

that's a little more aligned.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:07

A hundred percent agree with you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:08

Very, I mean, I think ultimately you wanna set yourself up for success.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:12

You wanna land a Board seat, so then you're recommending somebody

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:15

else for yet another Board seat.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:17

And that's how the flywheel affects.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:19

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:19

And eventually, like, you know, we retire from your full-time job.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:22

And so when you're looking for Board seats, you also, like, try to find

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:27

somebody, it's called "over-Boarded" where some, somebody has way too

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:30

many Boards and Board opportunities will come to him, she, her, they.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:35

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:35

And they'll say, I'm already like, I'm Boarded up.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:37

And then they'll say, hey, but I know somebody else that's interested.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:40

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:40

And so look for those individuals that are Boarded up

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:44

that are passing on opportunities cuz they have too many Boards.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:47

That's a great way just to start to open up the doors.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:51

Oh yeah.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:52

Boarded up.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:52

That's funny.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:53

Yeah, and I, it's funny you say that cuz I give that same feedback to

Erica Seidel: 00:28:57

people who are looking for CMO jobs.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:58

I say like, you know, identify, you know, I don't know, three, five,

Erica Seidel: 00:29:01

ten CMOs who have the job you want.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:04

Right.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:04

Because they're probably going to get pinged about

Erica Seidel: 00:29:07

roles that you would want too.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:09

And maybe they don't want that role or the timing isn't right or the

Erica Seidel: 00:29:12

location isn't right or whatever.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:14

But you know, you want them to pass on to you what they are saying no to themselves.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:18

And it's, and it's, it's funny.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:20

And you say that system to people and people are like, oh, wow,

Erica Seidel: 00:29:22

I hadn't thought about that.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:24

So...[light laughing]

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:26

No, it's true.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:27

And you're absolutely right.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:28

Any other thoughts about how a CMO should be

Erica Seidel: 00:29:31

interviewing, uh, with the Board?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:33

Aside, aside from, you know, kind of making sure that there is that click

Erica Seidel: 00:29:37

and aside from, you know, having the, the things that you wanna get out of it.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:41

Anything else that a CMO should be kind of alert to as they're

Erica Seidel: 00:29:47

interviewing with a Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:48

I would say, like, have the conversation around like, hey,

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:51

there's not a lot of CMOs in Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:54

Why is that?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:55

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:55

What are you guys looking for?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:56

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:57

Why are you considering myself that has a pedigree?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:00

And what is of interest to you?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:01

Like those, I think those are interesting, very interesting conversations.

Erica Seidel: 00:30:04

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:05

Oftentimes as CMOs, like one thing that we've had to go

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:09

through over the last decade or so or more is digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:15

That is a skill set that many companies continue to look for.

Erica Seidel: 00:30:20

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:20

And so think about like, let's put like that part of your job.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:25

You could add value, like to help me understand where the organization

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:28

is from a digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:29

Hey, I have expertise in X, Y, Z.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:32

Do you think that could be of value to the organization or the Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:37

So I would say digital transformation is a hot skillset that all industries are

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:43

looking for to see and understand, and we as marketers have had to go through.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:47

And then the other thing too, like it's often overlooked that I would say

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:51

great marketers, agnostic of B2B and B2C, we know where the puck is going.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:57

We're very in tune with like society and human beings and how they

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:03

interact and how they like to buy.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:05

That intuition, a CFO does not usually- maybe a CEO from a visionary standpoint.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:11

Steve Jobs is a perfect example.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:13

But we as marketers have such a solid understanding and saying, do you

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:17

understand what's about to happen to your business with generative AI and

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:22

what we're seeing and how it's gonna impact the- your customer set, and/or

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:28

you internally within the organization and driving those type of conversations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:32

Those are really good in terms of bringing that expertise that you have

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:37

as a marketer around culture, society, buying habits that helps inform when

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:43

a company's going through, like, an organizational transformation.

Erica Seidel: 00:31:46

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:46

And oftentimes we're finding ourselves going through organizational

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:48

transformation at an accelerated rate.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:50

We just got outta Covid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:52

We tried to figure out hybrid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:53

We're still trying to figure out hybrid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:54

And now generative AI is on the horizon, so it's nonstop.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:00

Your value will always be there, and I think a lot of it is framing

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:04

of the conversation that we as marketers need to do a better job on.

Erica Seidel: 00:32:10

My final question is just any thoughts on how we can

Erica Seidel: 00:32:12

increase that proportion of Board seats that are filled by marketers?

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:17

I just don't hear that the marketing community talking about it.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:19

It's ironic.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:20

I was at, on a, a podcast and we were talking about this very, and I, I

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:25

rarely, when I interact with my fellow marketing colleagues at various levels,

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:30

Boards are not on their list of kind of professional development lately.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:34

And I'm like, well, why not?

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:36

So I think we as marketers have the opportunity to drive a greater

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:41

conversation at the various marketing conferences that exist in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:45

why CMOs need to have a seat at the table from a Board perspective and

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:47

articulating the business rationale.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:50

I just don't, I don't hear it.

Erica Seidel: 00:32:52

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:53

And you look at marketing conferences that exist and the CMO

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:57

Council and all the, we know together from a smaller community, and I look

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:02

at the paneling, I look at programming.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:04

When have you seen programming around why don't CMOs have a seat

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:07

at the table of Board of Directors?

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:09

It's rare.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:11

I don't think I've ever seen it.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:12

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:13

And so I think it starts with us in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:16

driving the conversation and then challenging the industry at large.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:22

I mean, we're marketers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:22

We can come up, if we can unify and come up with campaigning and get

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:26

executive recruiters and get, you know, chairmen and CEOs to think about us.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:30

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:31

Maybe we'd see more from forty.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:33

Like, you know, I'm a very big, like, OKR, KPI, can, so we have forty now, can we,

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:38

can we look at let's adding twenty more.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:40

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:41

By the end of the year.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:43

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:43

And the only way do that is through creating, which we

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:46

all know, awareness and converting awareness to action, which is landing

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:52

a couple of people on Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:53

So I'm happy to assist, provide guidance.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:57

I'm a very big believer that we need more marketers in Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:00

That is part of diversity of thought.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:02

We talk about Board composition and we need diversity anchored on ethnicity.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:05

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:06

I think ethnicity, disability.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:09

And different functions represented.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:13

Makes sense.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:13

Awesome.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:14

Well, thank you so much for joining this show, Sandra.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:16

It's been great to have you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:18

Likewise.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:18

Thank you so much, Erica.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:19

Thank you for leaning in and helping drive awareness and hopefully

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:22

we'll see twenty more CMOs on Board seats by the end of the, the year.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:26

That's the KPI.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:27

All right.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:28

Awesome.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:28

Sandra Lopez, thank you.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:32

That was Sandra Lopez.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:34

Now that you've heard from her, think about what steps you can take this year

Erica Seidel: 00:34:38

to prepare yourself for Board service.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:40

And how can you add to the momentum of more marketing leaders in Board seats?

Erica Seidel: 00:34:45

Next time on The Get, your guest will be me.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:49

We're going to review the top themes from this season, the key ahas and

Erica Seidel: 00:34:53

tips on how CMOs can best interact with Boards from before they join a company

Erica Seidel: 00:34:58

to while they're in the CMO seat, to when they join Boards themselves.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:02

Don't miss it.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:04

Thanks for listening to The Get.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:06

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:08

The Get is here to drive smart decisions around recruiting and

Erica Seidel: 00:35:11

leadership in B2B SaaS marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:14

We explore the trends, tribulations, and triumphs of today's top

Erica Seidel: 00:35:18

marketing leaders in B2B SaaS.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:20

If you liked this episode, please share it.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:22

For more about The Get, visit thegetpodcast.com.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:26

To learn more about my executive search practice, which focuses on recruiting the

Erica Seidel: 00:35:30

make-money marketing leaders rather than the make-it-pretty ones, follow me on

Erica Seidel: 00:35:34

LinkedIn or visit theconnectivegood.com.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:38

The Get is produced by Evo Terra of Simpler Media Productions.