Dear Listener, welcome to the third episode of our Dating Skills Series! In this installment, we dive deep into the art of building intimacy, a crucial aspect of creating chemistry and emotional connections on your dates. This episode is for you if you are frequently “friend-zoned” or struggle to get past first or second dates.

Join us as we explore five key skills for building intimacy on a date:

1. Self-Affirm: Learn how to shift from self-criticism to self-compassion, allowing you to show up confidently and authentically.
2. Play: Discover how to bring lightness and joy into your interactions, making your dates more fun and engaging.
3. Assert: Master the art of clearly and respectfully communicating your desires while giving your date space to express theirs.
4. Reveal: Enhance emotional closeness by sharing your feelings and encouraging your date to do the same.
5. Touch: Understand how to move from friendly to flirty touch, using your intuition and your date’s cues to gauge comfort and interest.

“Paul” and “Petunia” return, so don’t miss their silly, touching examples of how to get playful, flirtatious, and deep.  Tune in to learn how to emotionally connect with your date, create intimate moments, and understand the role of physical touch in building chemistry. By the end of this episode, you’ll have practical strategies to help you build connections that might blossom into joyful, lifelong love.

Key Takeaways

00:00 - Intro

03:84 - #1: Self-Affirm

06:26 - #2: Play

16:28 - #3: Assert

22:25 - #4: Reveal

27:43 - #5: Touch

34:04 - Recap

Resources and links

For full show notes with links, visit relationshipcenter.com/podcast

Free Dating Skills Infographics

Ep. 3 - How to flirt like a feminist

Non-Creepy Flirting: Signs, Confidence, & Respectful Tactics

Have a question or comment? Email us at podcast@relationshipcenter.com. We love hearing from you!

If you’d like to work with one of the talented clinicians on our team, go to relationshipcenter.com/apply-now to apply for a free 30-minute consultation.

To get a monthly email with our best content, go to relationshipcenter.com/newsletter.

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Lastly, we’d love it if you would leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. And be sure to hit subscribe while you’re there so you never miss an episode!

From the Relationship Center, I'm psychotherapist, couples counselor, and

2

dating coach Jessica Engle, and this is I

Love You Too, a show about how to create

3

and sustain meaningful relationships.

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Josh: I'm dating and relationship

coach Josh Van Vliet.

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Welcome to part three of our

four part dating skills series.

6

This episode is all

about building intimacy.

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We're so happy you're here and please

remember that this show is not a

8

substitute for a relationship with a

licensed mental health professional.

9

Hello and welcome dear listener.

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Welcome back to our dating skills

series, part three of four.

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If you've missed any of the previous

episodes in this series, go back

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and check out episode one for our

foundational dating skills, all about

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positive nonverbal communication.

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We also cover some ideas about

how to apply what you're learning

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in this series in that episode.

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So check that out.

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That'll be really helpful for all

the different parts of the series.

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And then in our last episode, part

two, we explored dating skills

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for having juicy conversations.

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So definitely check that out if that's

an area that you're wanting to grow in.

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And today, we are diving

into building intimacy.

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Jessica: Yes.

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Before we get started, if you

love our show, dear listener,

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well, we love you too.

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And we want to be in

touch between episodes.

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To get more free dating, relationship

and social anxiety advice,

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please go to relationshipcenter.

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com slash newsletter.

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Okay, so building intimacy.

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Josh: Building intimacy.

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Should we start with like, what

do we mean by building intimacy?

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We've got some five skills we're going

to go into in a moment here, but just

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like, what are we talking about when

we're talking about building intimacy?

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Jessica: Yeah, so building intimacy,

there is a sort of pithy breakdown

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of the word intimacy that I've

heard before, which is into me.

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So, the idea of building intimacy is

that we're trying to allow the other

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person in, in a way that perhaps we don't

with people we're not intimate with.

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The reason this is important in a dating

context is, what is a relationship

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for, but to experience a deeper

level of intimacy than maybe we do

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with our co workers, for example.

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I also really like bringing in the

word intimacy here for this last set

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because part of what we're pointing

to here is how to build chemistry, for

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lack of a better word, or attraction.

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A lot of people use the word

intimacy as a kind of euphemism

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for sexuality or sensuality.

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And so, we're really Wanting to break

down what are some of the ways that we can

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get into a space with our date that goes

beyond friendship into a heart to heart

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connection or even a sensual connection.

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Josh: Love it.

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And so we've got five skills.

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Jessica: We sure do.

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That are

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Josh: going to help with that.

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Jessica: Yes.

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Josh: Should we give a little overview

of all five and then we'll dig in?

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Jessica: Yes, absolutely.

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So the first skill, we always

start with a resourcing skill.

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The first one is self affirm.

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The second one is play.

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Then we have assert, reveal, and touch.

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So let's go into each of these one by one.

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As has happened with the other two

episodes, we do have a beautiful

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infographic for you to look at.

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If you'd like to follow along, if

you are a visual learner, go to the

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show notes to get access to that.

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So let's start with self affirm.

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Great.

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So in self affirm, what we're

referring to here is really

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becoming your own inner ally.

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Again, this is less of a relational skill

or interaction with the other person,

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and more a way that you're resourcing

yourself so that you can show up present.

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So in becoming your own inner ally, your

idea here is to really shift your thoughts

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from self criticism to either encouraging

affirmations or self compassion.

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So, let me give some examples.

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Encouraging affirmations

might simply be, you're great.

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You're talking to yourself.

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You're great.

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This person's going to love you.

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You're going to be just fine on this date.

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Okay.

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Now, for some people, affirmations

feel cheesy and phony.

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So, I also love to give the

alternative of self compassion.

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Okay.

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So, if you're feeling anxious on a date,

your internal self talk might be something

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like, Wow, yeah, I'm feeling, I'm

feeling the anxiety, and I'm, you know,

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sort of talking directly to yourself.

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I'm with you.

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It's really normal to feel anxiety

on a date, and we're going to be

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as kind with ourselves as possible,

even when we're feeling anxious.

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Josh: I love that.

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I love the self compassion.

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As, as somebody who has, at times, a

pretty harsh inner critic, I am one of

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the people who can find it hard to access.

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Positive affirmations or find that

because usually my my kind of internal

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experience would be like Yeah, nah.

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Not brah.

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It's a nice, nice thought, but.

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And so the self compassion is so

powerful because it's like, you're not

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arguing with your inner critic, really.

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It's like, you're almost like taking that

inner critic and just like hugging it.

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It's like, it's okay.

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Yeah.

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It's all right to feel anxious.

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Like,

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Jessica: yeah, it's all

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Josh: right to be worried

about how this is going to go.

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That's so normal.

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And that can, at least for me, and I

think this is true for a lot of people,

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can feel a little more easy to access.

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And it may be even more

true in the moment, right?

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It's like.

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We can be with that very,

very authentically than trying

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to make ourselves believe.

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We're great when our brain is

arguing hard in the other direction.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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I really recommend, um, the

Mindful Self Compassion workbook.

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If you're really wanting to dive further

into that concept or that practice.

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It is a practice, so just know

that it doesn't necessarily come

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immediately to a lot of people.

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It requires, uh, some practice.

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But there's amazing research on mindful

self compassion and how it can be much

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more motivating than self criticism

or even things like affirmations.

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Josh: Yeah.

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I mean, it's a skill, just like all the

things we're talking about is a skill.

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You can get better at it

the more you practice it.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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Josh: Perfect.

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Jessica: So that's

number one, self affirm.

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Number two is play.

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Lay.

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Lay.

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So, play, smile wide, laugh easily,

insert playfulness naturally, and

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don't pressure yourself to be funny.

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Humor dies where fear thrives.

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So, there's a lot in here, and I

think a lot of people go into dates.

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And I would say, I've heard this

a little bit more from men dating

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women, but I think it goes both ways.

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There's this pressure

to be the funny person.

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And, in my experience, the more

somebody pressures themselves to

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be funny, the less funny they are.

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So, I really like to encourage you, dear

listener, to Bring in more of a sense

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of playfulness, which is less about

performing, less about being the funny,

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funny person, and more about like how can

we build kind of a back and forth that

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is just kind of joyful and generative.

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In our last episode, we went over yes

and, which is a huge part of playfulness.

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I'm gonna give you today a few sort

of structured, what I call play

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starters, that you can bring into

dates, that can be a really great

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way to kind of bring in that energy.

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Without needing to improvise,

because I know sometimes

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improvising is intimidating.

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Josh: Absolutely.

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The image I get is shifting from

trying to be the stand up comic

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on stage, which usually doesn't go

well, to, uh, being side by side, or

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like, you know, facing a buddy and,

like, creating something together.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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For me, as an improviser,

I think of improv instead.

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Josh: Yeah.

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Jessica: And again, we've plugged in

this series before, take an improv class.

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A lot of the principles of improv are

about exactly what we're describing.

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How can I join with my scene partner

or my date to create a world that is

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joyful and just lovely to be in together?

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Josh: Beautiful.

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Jessica: So, let's just go

over a few play starters.

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There is sort of like physical play

that you can bring into a date.

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A great example of this that can be

quite flirtatious is, um, something as

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silly as a thumb war or an arm wrestle.

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Mm.

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Mm.

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And you can sort of make a bet that

can be kind of flirtatious, okay?

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So you can invite your date to arm

wrestle you or have a thumb war, and the

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winner takes the other person out for

another date, or takes you for ice cream.

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The beautiful thing about this is that

you get to incorporate some touch,

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right, in addition to that sense of play.

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Josh: Yeah, that's great.

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It's like a way of like, crossing

that touch barrier in a playful way,

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in a way that's like, we know this is

consensual, we're like, we're agreeing

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in the moment right now, uh, and touch

will just heighten a sense of intimacy,

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a sense of connection, a sense of like,

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Jessica: ooh.

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Yes.

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Ooh.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Josh: I do imagine, uh.

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Yeah.

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One of the potential pitfalls with

this one is, uh, speaking as someone

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who occasionally can be hyper

competitive, uh, maybe needed to rein

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in that hyper competitive side, right?

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It's like, you're actually not

I mean, maybe you're trying to

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win, but you're like, not really.

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It's not about winning here.

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Jessica: Right.

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And

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Josh: if you were to just get focused on

that, you would actually be taking out of

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play and losing connection with your date.

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And it becomes not fun anymore.

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Jessica: That's a great point.

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So, you are privileging the

joy of the game over Yeah, I

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think that's a beautiful point.

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I think the other objection I can imagine

you, dear listener, might have is like,

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Isn't that a little, like, juvenile?

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And you may have that experience

with a lot of these sort of

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play starters that I recommend.

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I think a lot of us, and there's

two pieces to that, I think

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a lot of us have been shamed.

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For playing.

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Yeah.

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Particularly as we get older or depending

on the family culture we come from.

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So just playing in general

might feel really vulnerable.

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And one way that that can

manifest for us is, that's

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silly, I'm going to look stupid.

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And the people that I see who are.

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Thriving the most in their dating

lives are willing to be goofy.

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Yeah.

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So just know that if you do

have that response, this may be

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one area where you're going to

need to grow your comfort zone.

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You're going to need to

stretch a little bit.

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And also I want you to

attune to your date.

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If your date is somebody who's a

little bit more pinned up, They don't

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seem to do a lot of rough and tumble

play in their lives in general.

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It's probably not a great offer, right?

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It's not the place to start.

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Yeah.

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And there are other ways to play.

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So let's look at some other ways.

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If they're less physical

players, you can try a word game.

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Okay.

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So something like a word at a time story.

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We did these when we were dating, Josh.

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We

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Josh: did.

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Jessica: And we would be

like walking around a garden.

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We walked around a lot of

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And you had done a little bit of improv.

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So, and this one's pretty easy.

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It's, you know, each person takes a word

at a time and you tell a story together.

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Do you want to demo this one?

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Let's do it.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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The.

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Josh: Large.

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Jessica: Elephant

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Josh: took

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Jessica: a

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Josh: bath

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Jessica: and

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Josh: they

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Jessica: really

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Josh: didn't

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Jessica: like

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Josh: the

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Jessica: bubbles

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Josh: in

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Jessica: the

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Josh: water.

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Jessica: So,

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Josh: Tuesday,

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Jessica: they

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Josh: yelled,

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Jessica: WEEEEEE!

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Josh: Can.

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Bathe.

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Without.

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Jessica: Bubbles!

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And scene.

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Okay, so, um Ridiculous story.

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Josh: Didn't make any sense.

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Jessica: No sense.

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The key to that one is each person

needs to be willing to say the

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boring part of the sentence.

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Like the or and.

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And also, we just kept going.

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There's a point in the story

where we're both looking at each

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other like, where's this going?

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Josh: It was like, there could have

been the end of a sentence, and then

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you very smartly was like, added another

conjunction or something and you're like,

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yep, this is, we're still rolling here.

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Jessica: Right.

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Yeah.

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So some of these stories are

going to flop and that's okay.

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Josh: That's, I think that's part of the

fun of it is like, this is ridiculous.

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This is like, this isn't

supposed to be a work of art.

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Jessica: Right.

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Josh: We were kind of

surprised by where we ended up.

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I love the image of this elephant

yelling, We can bathe without bubbles.

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Jessica: Yeah, so, um, Word at a Time's

story is an example of a great sort of

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improv game that you can bring in that

is just, Plain silly a lot of the time.

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Now, that one may even be a

little too wacky for some dates.

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So we can also bring in

something like a getting to know

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you kind of structured game.

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Something like two truths and a lie.

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Okay.

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You, dear listener, probably

are familiar with this.

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It is actually a prompt on.

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at least one of the

platforms that I know of.

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And so you're giving two things that are

true about you and a lie and the other

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person has to guess which one's the lie.

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So, you know, there's not a lot

of like wackiness to that one.

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It's pretty straightforward.

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But it still has this energy of

like, oh, what's, you know, there's

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kind of some intrigue and it's

going to open up conversation.

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Josh: Yeah.

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It's going to take you down roads

you might not otherwise go down in

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kind of normal conversation zone.

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Jessica: Yes.

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Yeah.

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Josh: One other one that we did,

I think, on one of our first dates

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was, what animal would you be?

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Jessica: Yes.

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Josh: Which took us down very,

a lot of silly rabbit holes.

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Jessica: Right.

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Josh: But neither was her rabbits.

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Jessica: That's right.

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But, funnily enough, you are an elephant.

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Josh: Funnily enough, yes.

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Speaking of

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Jessica: our Word of Time story.

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Josh is an elephant and I am a,

I'm a lot of things, I think.

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You're a lot of things.

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Yeah.

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Josh: What did we land on?

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Jessica: I think we landed on a fox.

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Fox.

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A clever fox.

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Josh: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jessica: Or a cuddly cat.

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Josh: Or a cuddly cat, yeah.

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Jessica: Uh, Yes, we also did

what vegetable would you be?

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Josh: And obviously the important

part of these prompts is not uh,

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The animal that you choose or the

vegetable that you choose, but why?

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Jessica: Right.

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Josh: Just in case that wasn't

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Jessica: obvious.

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Josh: That's where the

juicy conversation comes in.

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It's like, well, what is it about

an elephant that I feel like is me?

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Or what is it about a fox

that you feel like is you?

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And even, like, you can have opinions.

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Like, based on, you know, I've

known you for 45 minutes here.

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Here's what I think you are.

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Yeah.

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And that can be fun and interesting, too.

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It gets me a little bit ahead

to one of our further skills.

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But, yeah, it's a fun way

to play that conversation.

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Is maybe also an easier entry point

than some of the ones that maybe

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feel a little bit more silly or

a little bit more goofy at first.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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Yeah, I definitely feel like the

playful part, like it's already

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a playful exercise, but it's like

10 times more playful when you say

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to the person you've known for 30

minutes, what do you think I am?

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And you get to hear

their thoughts already.

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Okay, so, play starters, we've, we have

a few more, um, on our list, but we're

355

not going to go through them today.

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You can get them by going to the

show notes, so check those out.

357

Let's go on to number three.

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Josh: Assert.

359

Jessica: Assert.

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Josh: Tell us about assert.

361

Jessica: Okay.

362

So, assert, this refers to directly

communicating what you want and giving

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yourself and your date permission

to say no without explanation.

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Josh: Love it.

365

Jessica: So we're going to

return to being Paul and Petunia.

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Am I Petunia?

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Is that my name?

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You're Petunia.

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Yeah.

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Josh: I'm Paul.

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Jessica: And I was like, am I Penelope?

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Josh: No.

373

You're definitely Petunia.

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Jessica: Okay.

375

Very good.

376

Paul and Petunia will be on a date.

377

Josh: You met us last episode

in case you missed that one.

378

So first date again, like we were,

and we'll give some examples here.

379

Jessica: Okay.

380

Great.

381

Great.

382

Great.

383

Well, it looks like some

seats just opened in the cafe.

384

Josh: Oh, great.

385

Would you like to sit down?

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Jessica: Yes, I'd like this seat.

387

Josh: Great.

388

Um, perfect.

389

I will take the other one.

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Jessica: I really love being able to look

out, uh, at all the people walking by.

391

Cool.

392

Josh: What do you like about that?

393

Jessica: I just, people

are so fascinating.

394

Josh: Yeah.

395

Jessica: But you know, I actually,

I think I would like you to sit

396

next to me 'cause I don't want you

to miss all the interesting people.

397

Ooh, okay.

398

Josh: Uh, I'd be happy to

399

Jessica: now that you're

sitting next to me.

400

I would love to, like, hold your hand.

401

Oh,

402

Josh: um, I, uh, I think I'm

not quite ready for that,

403

but thank you for offering.

404

That's very sweet of you.

405

Jessica: Yeah, thanks for telling me.

406

The offer's here when you're ready.

407

Josh: Thanks.

408

Jessica: Hansin.

409

Hansin.

410

Hansin.

411

Okay, so, what we saw in there

were two examples of asserting,

412

one was a yes, I want this, and

one was a no, I don't want this.

413

Okay, so Petunia was like, I want

that chair, and I want you next to me.

414

Petunia knows what she wants.

415

Josh: And it was great, as Paul, Paul

was like, ooh, this is fun, I love it

416

when someone tells you what they want.

417

Especially when it, like, Points

to, I want to be closer to you,

418

Jessica: like,

419

Josh: you know, Paul could feel

like, Ooh, I have some like

420

little tingles segment there.

421

Jessica: Yeah.

422

Yeah.

423

So that's part of the

building intimacy piece here.

424

So often in relationships, people

avoid saying what they want.

425

Not everybody.

426

This may be a particular kind of

person, but dear listener, we suspect

427

you may be that kind of person.

428

It may be a little bit hard to

say what you want sometimes.

429

Josh: I'm that person sometimes.

430

Jessica: Yeah, me too.

431

Josh: I will sometimes be

like, would you like to,

432

Jessica: rather

433

Josh: than be like, I'd like to.

434

Jessica: Mm hmm.

435

Mm hmm.

436

Yep.

437

Josh: Maybe you're guilty of that

as well sometimes, dear listener.

438

Jessica: Yeah.

439

Josh: Uh, and it's normal, right?

440

We get anxious about communicating

directly what we want because

441

it means They might say no.

442

Jessica: That's right.

443

Josh: Uh, and that can be scary.

444

But it's so much fun.

445

And it can be so fun to

receive that from somebody.

446

Jessica: And it just gives them such an

opportunity to get to know you, right?

447

So when Petunia said, I want

that chair, Paul had the

448

opportunity to be like, Great.

449

What is it about watching people?

450

Um, and so opened up a whole

conversation about that.

451

Josh: Right.

452

Got more information about Petunia

453

Jessica: in that moment.

454

And then Petunia invited Paul closer

and expressed a desire to hold his hand.

455

Josh: And it was a very clear but

unattached invitation, which is beautiful.

456

It was like, this is what I'd like.

457

Would you like that?

458

And when Paul said, no, I don't

think I'm quite ready for that.

459

I was like, great, no worries.

460

You know, Petunia didn't get upset.

461

She didn't take it personally.

462

And I was like, yeah, the invitation's

here when you're ready for it.

463

Jessica: Yeah.

464

Josh: Which is so lovely,

leaving the door open.

465

Because the thing that we can

often do out of, Anxiety or hurt

466

or taking things personally in that

moment is withdraw, like, oh, they

467

don't want to be connected with me.

468

Well, I don't want to connect

with them either, then.

469

So, um, which of course then

shuts down the possibility for the

470

connection that you might otherwise

have, which might be lovely.

471

And so it was so

beautiful that Petunia was

472

Jessica: Yeah.

473

Josh: Uh, it's here when

you're ready for it.

474

Jessica: Mm hmm.

475

I will say as Petunia, like, I

did have a little bit of a feeling

476

of like, oh, Yeah, of course.

477

So it's not about not having that feeling.

478

Yes.

479

Yeah, good point.

480

It's more about communicating

regardless of what my feelings are.

481

I respect what's happening for you, and

it's really important to me that you both

482

know my interest and also know that I can

receive a no, which is vital to intimacy.

483

Vital.

484

Josh: Vital.

485

You've got to know that

there's room for a no.

486

Like, there can't be room.

487

I mean, we've talked about this in other

podcast episodes, so I won't go into

488

the whole thing, but you've got, there

has to be room for a no in order for

489

there to be room for an authentic yes.

490

Jessica: Yes.

491

One more thing I'll say about assert is

We can assert ourselves non verbally.

492

So if Petunia had reached out and sort of

reached for Paul's hand, and Paul wasn't

493

totally ready for that, and wasn't totally

ready to name that, he might have squeezed

494

her hand, released it, and maybe grabbed

his drink, and just kind of let it be.

495

It's probably a good thing to name

verbally, but you don't have to.

496

Josh: Right.

497

That's a great point.

498

Jessica: I want to direct you,

dear listener, also to our

499

Flirt Like a Feminist episode,

and her non creepy flirting.

500

Blog article, we'll link to those and

that go, goes into depth more about

501

kind of these nonverbal signals and

just flirtation in general and how it

502

connects to assertiveness and consent.

503

Josh: Beautiful.

504

Okay, should we talk about number four?

505

Jessica: Yes, I think we reveal

506

Josh: what number four is?

507

Jessica: I think we should demo it first.

508

Josh: Should we reveal it by demoing

509

Jessica: it?

510

Yes, we should.

511

Josh: Okay, great.

512

So we're back in the cafe, Paul and

Petunia are sitting next to each other.

513

And scene.

514

Jessica: Yeah, I just,

it's so interesting.

515

I, I really like looking in your eyes.

516

There's something about your

eyes that is so, um, kind, sweet.

517

Um, like I want to like swim in them.

518

Josh: That really warms

my heart to hear that.

519

Makes me a little shy.

520

But I feel very touched to hear that.

521

Yeah, I feel, I feel very similarly.

522

Like, I could just, like,

curl up in your eyes.

523

Feels very, uh, Comforting.

524

Jessica: Mm.

525

Josh: To look into your eyes.

526

Jessica: Mm.

527

Mm.

528

And seen.

529

Oh.

530

Oh.

531

So, the next one is reveal.

532

And revealing is when we electrify the

connection by revealing your moment

533

to moment feelings about your date

and encouraging them to share theirs.

534

Mm.

535

Mm.

536

Josh: And Petunia did that so

beautifully by, you know, in the

537

moment we're looking into each

other's eyes on the date and just

538

saying, like, this is what I'm feeling

right now as I look into your eyes.

539

And the experience for

me as Paul was like,

540

Jessica: Ooh, holy man,

541

Josh: it's just like, it's great.

542

It feels so exciting.

543

And so, and I, like, in that moment

I was deeply touched, uh, And, and

544

then Paul chose to share that, which

was also part of revealing that how

545

what Petunia shared impacted him.

546

Jessica: Yeah.

547

Yeah.

548

And similarly for me as Petunia, I could

feel Paul's genuine excitement kind

549

of being touched and that similarly,

like my heart softened and warmed and

550

I just kind of wanted to like lean in.

551

Josh: Mhm.

552

Yeah, I mean, it's like, the kind of

thing that, like, if, I don't know if

553

they're ready for that yet, but it's

like, they're getting close to a kiss,

554

there's like, there's some sweet,

sweet connection happening right there.

555

Jessica: Yeah.

556

Yeah.

557

Yeah.

558

And it's, it is vulnerable.

559

Josh: Yeah.

560

Jessica: This isn't our last

set of skills because it is one

561

of the most advanced by far.

562

Um, it is a big thing to really

name in this moment, this

563

is how you are impacting me.

564

Yeah.

565

Yeah.

566

Josh: And to do it in a way that,

similar to asserting, You're open to

567

whatever their experience is, right?

568

They may not meet you there.

569

Jessica: Yeah.

570

Josh: And that can, that's part

of the, the kind of emotional risk

571

taking of building a relationship

and to hold on to yourself in that

572

moment and be okay with like, okay.

573

We'll see where this goes.

574

Jessica: Right.

575

Josh: And I don't know yet.

576

Jessica: Yes.

577

Yeah, we just did a, an episode a little

while back on compatibility experiments,

578

and I definitely think of Reveal as a

really great compatibility experiment

579

where you're gonna gather a lot of

information about the other person.

580

How do they feel about you?

581

How do they feel about you

being vulnerable with them?

582

Can you be in this very kind of

open, vulnerable space together?

583

Josh: You can imagine if Paul,

after Petunia shared that so, like,

584

openheartedly and vulnerably and

beautifully, Paul was like, Thanks.

585

You know, it'd be like, Yep.

586

And it would've been good

information for Petunia that's like,

587

Jessica: Okay,

588

Josh: if I share vulnerably, he's

not really gonna join me there.

589

Jessica: Okay.

590

Yeah, or maybe he's just really

not feeling it the way that I am.

591

Josh: Or yeah, or he's not

feeling it the way I am.

592

Exactly.

593

Yeah.

594

Jessica: Yeah, and, you know, don't want

to leave you, dear listener, with the

595

sense that this will only lead to pain.

596

As you saw in the example, it can

just lead to these really beautiful

597

moments that you don't get to

experience with a lot of people.

598

Josh: Yeah, I feel like more often it

leads to like sweet connected moments,

599

even if the relationship doesn't

end up being the right relationship.

600

Jessica: Yes.

601

Josh: There's something about

that kind of vulnerability that,

602

I think most of the time makes

people want to lean in, in some way.

603

Jessica: I think that's very true, right?

604

When you assume that other people are

going to be warm towards you, and you

605

act in a warm way or in a vulnerable

way, there is actual research that

606

shows, yes, people respond in kind.

607

Yeah.

608

We're wired to meet one

another in a reciprocal way.

609

So if you bring your vulnerability,

I know it's terrifying, but if

610

you do that, you You're probably

going to get more of that back.

611

Josh: Yeah.

612

Beautiful.

613

Anything else on reveal?

614

Jessica: No, let's move on to touch.

615

So our final skill is touch.

616

Move gradually from friendly

to flirty, sensual touch.

617

Use your internal cues and your

date's body language to gauge

618

when you're both ready for more.

619

Mm hmm.

620

So, touch is also in our last set

of skills because I know it brings

621

a lot up for a lot of people.

622

Yes.

623

Again, I'm gonna refer you back to our

non creepy flirting blog, which goes

624

over a lot of different kinds of flirting

and that includes some about touch.

625

I like to think about touch in terms

of friendly touch versus like, kind of

626

ambiguously flirty touch to like, um,

627

Josh: Explicitly sensual.

628

Jessica: Explicitly sensual.

629

Mm hmm.

630

So, a lot of people will go into

dates and, you know, particularly

631

highly considerate people, which

is probably you, dear listener,

632

you may actually avoid touch.

633

Mm hmm.

634

You don't want to creep

the other person out.

635

And that is, if you're getting signals

that the other person's into you and

636

you don't bring in some sort of touch.

637

It sends a very mixed signal, right?

638

It sends a, I'm not really

into you signal to some people.

639

So, I think you can start with, um,

more of the friendly touch, which is

640

things like a touch on the shoulder,

a touch on the forearm, right?

641

These things that a friend might do.

642

If you are really tuning in to the other

person, noticing what their signals

643

are, do they seem to smile, lean in?

644

Do they not pull away from you in some way

when you engage in that friendly touch?

645

That may be a good indicator

that they're open to more.

646

Keep in mind, along the way, you

can always ask if you're confused.

647

Just like Petunia at the beginning

was very sort of verbal about asking

648

for consent, you can do that too.

649

Josh: That's a great

skill to fall back on.

650

If you get Anxious about reading their

signals correctly or doing something wrong

651

Jessica: just

652

Josh: to ask.

653

Jessica: Much better to ask

than to cross a boundary.

654

Josh: Yeah.

655

And, and ask, you might ask like we

demoed earlier, like Petunia demoed

656

earlier by asserting, I'd really

like to hold your hand right now.

657

Would you like that?

658

Jessica: Yeah.

659

Josh: So that it's not like, uh,

would you like to hold my hand?

660

Would you like to hold hands?

661

Would you?

662

I'm not really sure if I

want it, based on my tone.

663

Right.

664

I'm sending this ambiguous

signal about whether I'm into it.

665

So, yeah.

666

I think leading on that assert skill is

a great one for making this explicit.

667

Jessica: Yes.

668

Josh: And asking for consent.

669

Clear consent.

670

Jessica: Yes.

671

So let's talk about the kind of like in

between friendly and clearly sensual.

672

So kind of ambiguous.

673

So things that come to my mind are

things like a touch on the low back.

674

Moving a piece of hair

behind your date's ear.

675

Josh: Mm.

676

Jessica: Um.

677

Josh: Maybe a touch on, like,

if they have their hands on the

678

table, maybe touching their hand.

679

Touch

680

Jessica: on the hand.

681

Just like

682

Josh: a brief, like, whatever,

like, oh my god, that was so funny.

683

Jessica: Right.

684

Josh: Thing.

685

Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

686

Or even maybe a brief handhold.

687

Mm hmm.

688

Um, that one's a little less

ambiguous, but still kind of in

689

the like, where are we going?

690

And then if you're still getting green

signals, green light, or you're checking

691

in and getting a verbal yes, moving on

to sensual, what that can look like,

692

you might be able to imagine as a kiss.

693

touching sort of like the leg tends

to be a pretty obvious sexual signal.

694

We've also got, of course, like,

uh, touching the hip or butt.

695

Um, and you know, it

just goes up from there.

696

If you start taking clothes off, the

other person probably understands.

697

They're, they're wanting

something more sensual, sexual.

698

Yeah.

699

Yeah.

700

Would you add anything

to those, uh, lists?

701

Josh: I think my default, when we

get into the more explicitly sexual,

702

is to always ask for verbal consent.

703

Is that your default as well?

704

I, I know some people, you know,

are, there's different schools of

705

thought on this, and some people are

more like, yeah, you, you're like,

706

getting clear nonverbal consent.

707

That's okay.

708

Do you have a take on that?

709

Jessica: I think it really varies.

710

I know there are some people

who get really turned off.

711

By being asked for verbal consent.

712

It may be that you're not a good fit

for that person if you really need the

713

verbal consent to feel comfortable.

714

So I think it really can vary.

715

What do you think?

716

Josh: Well again, I think my default is

to always ask for explicit verbal consent.

717

Especially when you're going into

that territory for the first time.

718

Yeah.

719

That it's just like, there's too many

opportunities, there's too many things

720

that can come up that, you know, somebody

might not give a clear answer to.

721

nonverbal no because they're

really uncomfortable.

722

And there's like a little

bit of a freeze response.

723

Jessica: Yeah.

724

Josh: And maybe you miss it.

725

Maybe you think there's something

else happening that they're into it.

726

So I think there's just like, there's

too much opportunity for miscommunication

727

and the nonverbal when you're, when

you're going into that territory

728

for the first time with somebody.

729

I think once you maybe know somebody

better, Yeah, there's plenty of

730

opportunity for initiating sensual

sexual touch non verbally, and you

731

know they're non verbal signals.

732

You can get a clear non verbal

like, oh yeah, I'm into that.

733

That's my, that's my take on it.

734

Jessica: I really appreciate you pulling

that apart the first time versus the

735

ongoing, and I do think that more verbal

consent is important up front, and I think

736

also it's great to have a conversation

around, like for some couples, they may

737

have a conversation about this, and Yeah.

738

Yeah.

739

One person will say to the other,

like, I'm an enthusiastic yes, so

740

long as I am still engaged with you.

741

Like, just assume if I'm still, you know,

kissing you back or whatever, I am a yes.

742

Josh: Yeah.

743

Jessica: Right?

744

Josh: Yeah, that's a great point.

745

You can have a conversation about what

does consent look like between us and

746

how does that, what feels good for us

and how we communicate around that.

747

Love it.

748

Jessica: Beautiful.

749

Come on.

750

So.

751

Shall we recap?

752

Josh: Let's recap.

753

Jessica: Recap.

754

Josh: So we've got our five, uh, dating

skills for building intimacy today.

755

We started with self affirming, a way

of connecting with yourself and taking

756

care of yourself, trying either some

positive affirmations or if that feels

757

hard, uh, mindful self compassion.

758

Uh, our second dating skill was play,

and we gave some great examples of

759

fun play starters you can use like,

uh, a thumb war, or a word at a

760

time story, or two truths and a lie.

761

Our third skill is asserting.

762

I'd really like to hold your hand

right now, would you like that?

763

And sharing what you would like.

764

and giving space for a yes

or a no from your date.

765

Our fourth skill was reveal.

766

Revealing moment by moment what you're

experiencing about your date, with your

767

date, like what you needed so beautifully.

768

I forget what she said.

769

Something very sweet about Paul's eyes.

770

Jessica: Wanting to swim in them.

771

Josh: Wanting to swim in them, exactly.

772

And then our fifth skill for

building intimacy was touch.

773

And using both your own internal cues

as guidance as well as your cues from

774

your date for moving from friendly

to maybe more ambiguous touch to more

775

explicitly sensual touch with consent.

776

Jessica: Beautiful.

777

Well done.

778

Yes.

779

Gold star.

780

All

781

Josh: right.

782

Well, I think that that covers

it for our third episode in

783

this series, Building Intimacy.

784

Next episode is going to be all

about neurodivergent dating skills.

785

Jessica: Yay!

786

Josh: So, stay tuned for that.

787

Woohoo!

788

Yay.

789

And that's all for today.

790

You can find the show notes with links

to all the resources we mentioned in

791

this episode at RelationshipCenter.

792

com slash podcast.

793

Jessica: And if you have a

question or comment, email us at

794

podcast at RelationshipCenter.

795

com.

796

We love hearing from you.

797

Josh: If you'd like to work with

one of the talented clinicians on

798

our team, go to RelationshipCenter.

799

com to apply for a free

30 minute consultation.

800

Jessica: You can also sign up

for a monthly email of our best

801

content at relationshipcenter.

802

com slash newsletter.

803

Josh: And if something in

this episode touched you, will

804

you share it with a friend?

805

That helps us reach more

sweet humans like you.

806

Jessica: Lastly, we'd love it if you

would leave us a rating and review

807

wherever you listen to podcasts.

808

Be sure to hit subscribe while you're

there so you never miss an episode.

809

Josh: Until next time.

810

We love you too.

811

To sit in solemn silence on a dull dark

dock at a pestilential prison with a

812

lifelong lock awaiting the sensation

of a short sharp shock from a cheap

813

and jippy chopper on a big black block.

814

Jessica: Wow.

815

Josh: Your turn.

816

Jessica: She sells

seashells by the seashore.