Leigh Ann: Hello, and welcome back to the Accrescent Podcast. I'm your host Leigh Ann and today we have returning guest expert Nadine Zumot on the show to talk all about the Netflix series, How to Get Rich. As soon as I saw this, I immediately thought of Nadine. She's been on the show a couple times to share her trauma informed insight into money, finances, so many different areas.

Leigh Ann: And so I really, really wanted to get her input on this new show. I really enjoyed the show, and I also felt like, okay, there could be a little bit more depth in terms of looking at this from a subconscious lens, from a trauma informed lens. At the start of the episode, we note that this is not to knock the show.

Leigh Ann: I think we both actually really loved it. This was more to give a little bit of our two cents on the lenses that we're looking through when it comes to money work. So please enjoy this interview with Nadine Zumot. We just need to have a regular segment with each other because we've just done so many episodes together.

Leigh Ann: But I guess to kind of backtrack and frame today's conversation, the show with Ramit Sethi on Netflix, how to get rich. That's how it's called. Yeah, I think it's How To Get Rich. I'm mixing it up with his book title too. Me, which I know everyone's been doing. Me . Yeah, me too.

Nadine Zumot: I think so. We can look it up actually.

Nadine Zumot: Like why not, right? ? Yeah. So the book or the program is, I Will Teach You To Be Rich, but the show, show How to Get Rich Show itself is how to get Rich. Yeah, you're right. And it's such a snappy title, like everybody wants to Know How to Get Rich, so. 100 percent on point with finding the right hokey title, like how to get rich.

Nadine Zumot: How do we get rich? You know? So yes, yes. I think that, I think the title is excellent to be honest.

Leigh Ann: Yeah. And as soon as I. Watched it. Of course, you instantly popped into my mind. I was like, I have to know Nadine's perspective on this. You and

Nadine Zumot: all my clients and even like some audience on my podcast and Instagram.

Nadine Zumot: They've been DMing me and saying, have you watched this show? I would love to know your take on it. I'm like, Oh, see, the thing is, if I just came across this show. While, like, looking for something to watch on Netflix, I wouldn't, I wouldn't watch it, just because of the way it's been, like, because of the title, like, I just, I did just say that I think the title is perfect, as in, it's perfect to grab the attention of people.

Nadine Zumot: However, for me, it feels like a a Um, what's the word? Like a click bait? Yeah. Like for me, from my perspective, but I do, I am glad that they chose this title because the information in the show is actually pretty good. Like everything else in mainstream financial media and programs and all of that, it's just incomplete and it's not trauma informed.

Nadine Zumot: Right. And that is the paradigm that we need to shift into going forward. If we are going to start changing the reality that we're living in. However, the information shared on the show is accurate and there are some things that are deficient and it's not just from a trauma informed perspective. The deficient things I'm going to get into later on, um, as we chat, but.

Nadine Zumot: Um, yeah, I think, I think it's been, it's,

Leigh Ann: it's a good show. Yeah, and I think just to preface all of this before we dive in too deep is just for the audience. I know. I just, so that the audience knows this isn't a bashing the show. This isn't a bashing Ramit Sethi. I think we both really loved it in a lot of different ways.

Leigh Ann: This is more of just, wow, what a great piece of content. And we want to expand on it based on what we took away from it and how we're looking at it through our perspective, practitioner lenses. Yeah. So I just want to make that really clear. So right off the bat, people know the intention is not to the

Nadine Zumot: show and we're not bash anything.

Nadine Zumot: Ramit, we love you. You're a really nice guy. I know you're, you're going to be listening.

Leigh Ann: Totally. No, it is. I think that is. Not our MO at all in all of life. We, I think we both really approach things from empathy, grace, respect, and that is absolutely going to be like the basis of this conversation.

Nadine Zumot: Yes,

Leigh Ann: exactly.

Leigh Ann: Yeah. So Nadine, what'd you think?

Nadine Zumot: What I think is exactly what I shared earlier, which is I think it's a great show. And I think The information in there is great. I love that he goes a little bit deeper in with people because I know there are other shows out there that are really focused on like, do this, don't do that, more discipline, and he's kind of like broaching the subject of money wounds because he does talk about.

Nadine Zumot: Money psychology, even though he doesn't really say what money psychology is. I feel like it's just a, uh, a word that he was throwing around. And then what you mentioned off camera or off record was money scripts, which is a very important part because the money script is actually the money story that is running in the background, but.

Nadine Zumot: What's happening is that it's actually running in our subconscious, not at, uh, we are conscious of it to some extent, but we're never conscious of how deep it runs and how closely related it is to our core wounds. And that's something I think it probably was beyond the scope of the show, especially on a Netflix show.

Nadine Zumot: Like if it were shown on something like Gaia TV or something that's more like, uh. I don't want to call it controversial, but more like mind expanding, that would be something else. But for Netflix, which is more mainstream, I think they did a really good job.

Leigh Ann: Let's do this. Let's both share some of the highlights or the positives that we enjoyed about it.

Nadine Zumot: So my highlight so far, and I'm, you know, I'm. I'm nearly done with the show. My highlight so far was something he said, which is, you don't need to buy a house to be successful. Yes!

Leigh Ann: Oh my gosh! That was really good. Literally in my notes to get your take on that exact. That

Nadine Zumot: was excellent. I was like, oh my God, he's, this is the trend these days.

Nadine Zumot: You know, everybody's just like, after the pandemic, buy a house, buy property, buy property. Yeah, cool. It's great. But, is that your goal? And how much can you really afford? And can we stop and think before we jump on this trendy bandwagon kind of thing? Like, stop and think. So, that was the highlight for me.

Nadine Zumot: Um,

Leigh Ann: yeah. Was that message. That was a big takeaway for you. Yeah. Yeah, it was. What about you? I think for me, like I was saying before we started recording. I also was coming at this from two lenses. One as someone who is on their own money journey and wants to continue to learn more and expand what I know.

Leigh Ann: And then two from that practitioner lens of what's the subconscious work? What are the deeper wounds? What's going on underneath the surface? That is. Contributing to all of these external patterns that are showing up, but as just a bystander, as just a bystander looking to learn more about money, what I will say is I did find it, first of all, comforting to see this, you know, scope of different people and different couples and different relationships and the different, like, I actually loved how Specific they were with their finances.

Leigh Ann: All the numbers were right there, which I think is really helpful to go, Oh, okay, they have, they have this much debts and they have that much debt. And this lady makes this much a month and she still has debt.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. I love that. You know, they showed people. So here's the thing. No, I'm not going to go into that.

Nadine Zumot: Please. You can go off the soapbox.

Leigh Ann: So I think that was comforting. And I I'll say more to that too, as we get in, but that was nice to just go, okay, whoa. You know, look at the broad range of what's going on with money and also every single one of these people has some level of avoidance and shame with money, which is absolutely what I've experienced too.

Leigh Ann: So all of

Nadine Zumot: us, I mean, that's the first thing I recorded a podcast episode, uh, two weeks ago talking about, like, if there's one layer to crack, like I've been trying, I help people and people come to me. For work for money work. The first layer we crack is the money shame. So I created a podcast episode to kind of collectively start healing our money shame, you know?

Nadine Zumot: So yeah, money shame is real. Like we all have it. And for some reason, we're all just expected to come out of the womb really good with money. Like, come on, guys. Yeah, that's that's not real. That's not a realistic expectation. Um, but when Yeah, it's true that he had a wild, wild variety of people as well, but what I would have liked to see was perhaps people or like a family or a couple that are really struggling.

Nadine Zumot: Just so we see, because there are people that are struggling out there, there are, there are people that are borrowing food, like borrowing money to buy food at the end of the month. It's a real thing. And I wish that they included more information for these people that are really hungry for this type of information.

Nadine Zumot: Right? Like, because there's one, going on YouTube or learning about money. If you're avoidant is a very hard thing, but when it's on Netflix, it becomes more of an entertainment versus education. Right? So it is educational, but the goal of going on Netflix is to get entertained. And it's a new thing that they're including all these like cool documentaries and all that stuff about money.

Nadine Zumot: But, Okay. I wish they had just given more information and advice and recommendations for people that are struggling. A broader demographic. Yeah, a broader demographic because they're going on one end because of like that lady that was pretty rich but also in debt. That was a very eye opening thing for people because people don't believe me when I tell them if you have a money wound, more money will Amplify your money wounds, make you feel more insecure.

Nadine Zumot: They don't understand that until they start witnessing it themselves. Um, and that was a big example of like money is not the bandaid or it's not the solution or the anecdote to your money wounds. It is not. And I wish there was like the other side of the spectrum of people trying to make ends meet. Um, because, you know, I've had a.

Nadine Zumot: point in my life where things felt a little bit very shaky and scary. And it would have been nice to, to have that normalized on TV and also seeing that, oh, there's information or advice out there on like, know your numbers and learn how to budget, even when you have little bit of money, not too much, right?

Nadine Zumot: Because when you learn how to budget with a little bit of money, that will just carry over for when things start opening up and the whole idea with like. It's not, it's not shameful to get a second job if you need it, but also like being clear on your numbers, because when you're clear on your numbers, like, this is the information that I wish it was on there, which I'm sharing here.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Leigh Ann: yeah, yeah, I'll share the second really big positive. And then let's, let's just hash it out. The other positive for me was I actually really loved how actionable he was. Yes, that was. And for me, it was twofold. One, I think it's really empowering. What I'm seeing is when it's just like, okay, you don't have to wait till next month to start making things better.

Leigh Ann: You can go do something today, tomorrow, boom, take action. And I think that just generates more motivation, more enthusiasm, more empowerment to then continue that journey. But I also think more from that practitioner's perspective, I I'm finding that we need a good balance of looking back through our life where what are the roots of this pattern?

Leigh Ann: What are the subconscious roots of this pattern and doing that puzzling, but we also need forward action. I think we need both because sometimes if we get too caught up in the Going through the past. Like, yeah, we need a balance of both. Yeah. Cause we're healing things and we're puzzling it out. But then sometimes we can just get stuck in that world without actually making forward movement.

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Nadine Zumot: So, but one thing is that no one asked anyone why. Yeah, you know, like that was something that me, I kept on yelling at the TV, like, why? You know, like with poor Darnell and his Sneakers.

Leigh Ann: Oh, yes. Yes. And the

Nadine Zumot: games. Can someone please ask him? Why why does he need all these sneakers? Why is he what was the like?

Nadine Zumot: He was told ah All the spending unnecessarily and frivolously and secret purchasing, not even his partner asked, why? I love you. It's okay. But why? What is this fulfilling for you? No one is asking why. So there was too much forward, I think, and not enough backwards.

Leigh Ann: Yes. No, totally agree. I think You and I, well, my goal is to create a really great balanced mix of the two.

Leigh Ann: I think also as, as the evolution of my practice and my working with clients has grown, I was maybe in the beginning too far in going through the past and unraveling the subconscious roots. And now I feel like I'm getting into more of that balance of, yeah, let's get to the root of this and also take forward action to.

Leigh Ann: To move the needle there, but I totally agree. I think his was all forward action based and not enough of where did this come from?

Nadine Zumot: Because we need to go to the roots. Otherwise we're just bypassing because what is happening on the show was that they were just trying to find solutions for the symptoms.

Nadine Zumot: Yes. But if we don't go to the root, we, the symptoms are going to pop up and crop up in other areas of their life. And to your point, it's a very good distinction between just being stuck in the past or being stuck in the present, because it's just, it needs to be balanced. Like I've, my actual background is in accounting.

Nadine Zumot: That's why, like, I Take people to the past, but also we have eventually when they're no longer so activated when they're no longer super emotional with money and we get to a mutual ground with their nervous system, then we will put things in place because otherwise I'll be just talking to a part of them that doesn't want to respond if they're.

Nadine Zumot: People come to me so traumatized with money that sometimes they ask me to sit with them while they pay me, because it's that scary. Oh yeah. And I'm talking about like doctors, lawyers, even CPAs, like money is such a thing. It's not a joke. Like this money fear and money avoidance is such a debilitating thing.

Nadine Zumot: Right. And so before we move on, I just want to also say one thing I really liked about the show is when, um, Like the first question he asks everyone, which is what, what do you want your rich life to be? And that's such a mind opening experience because every person's rich life can look different. This is something that I really kind of like try to hammer into my social media and everything like abundance looks different for everyone.

Nadine Zumot: It doesn't necessarily mean wealth because if we're reaching for Wealth, that's just a moving target. We don't know like wealth in, you want to be rich, but what do you mean? Like richer than your neighbor? What about your other neighbor?

Leigh Ann: Richer than Brad Pitt? Like who?

Nadine Zumot: Exactly. Like how, what's that moving target that you're every time you get to one, you can't, like you.

Nadine Zumot: Hike up the mountain and then there's another mountain instead of like just sitting there and saying, here, here I am and the growth comes because we're the human nature is that we, we need growth and evolution, but why do we pre go prematurely towards a growth and evolution and not enjoy where we are now?

Nadine Zumot: So. I like that he said that there's different definitions of being

Leigh Ann: rich. Yeah, no, that was huge. And I think that comes back to the point you made of the home and buying a home and why do we want to buy a home and how many of us are overspending and overspending because we're buying things that we think we should want.

Leigh Ann: Not that we actually want, which is kind of like a double whammy, it's like, not only am I overspending and kind of stuck in this pattern that is limiting me in ways and feels icky and causes me stress, but I'm also not even spending on the things that actually are fulfilling my soul.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, I talk about this in one of, I think, one of my early episodes on my podcast.

Nadine Zumot: I believe it's called rule number one, never settle. Yeah, I think so. And I talk about how sometimes when we have, um, unhealed wounds, our needs are not our needs. They're the needs of our wounds. It's there are trauma needs or like inauthentic desires, meaning not that they're fake or yet that you're an unauthentic, but it's because you're.

Nadine Zumot: Wounding makes you think that you need something to be something. And after doing the healing work, you realize that, Oh, I never wanted that in the

Leigh Ann: first place. Yeah, 100%. 100%. And that is some of that deeper work. I think to the point you were making earlier as well, I like, I do think like being actionable and taking those forward steps when paired with that deeper work, it can give you the drive and the boost and the motivation that will then allow you to maybe dive into some of the deeper stuff with a little bit more gumption behind you.

Leigh Ann: But. If we are just taking all this forward action, treating the symptom without getting to the root of it, my hunch is, and it sounds sad to say, but at some point, we're going to just loop back down to where we were. We are! We

Nadine Zumot: are! I, how many times have I had people on onboarding forms say, I've paid off my debt, doubled my income, I'm back in debt.

Nadine Zumot: Why? Yeah. That is, that, that sentence just sums it all up.

Leigh Ann: Why, Nadine, tell us why.

Nadine Zumot: Oh man, yeah, that's, that just sums it all up. So, there's a sentence that I kind of, wrote down just to mull over and flesh out on, you know, knowing that we're going to do this. You're never going to be happy about money unless you change your thinking about it. What do you think about this, Leanne?

Leigh Ann: Yeah, I guess I would change the word if you want my, I would change it to, you're never going to have peace with money.

Leigh Ann: Until you change your thinking about it. Um, but I think they go, I think they go hand in hand. I think they're both communicating the same thing.

Nadine Zumot: I think I would change it to, you're never going to be happy with money until you change your relationship with yourself.

Leigh Ann: That's so good. Was the first sentence his?

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Sentence. Okay. Okay.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. Because you're thinking about money. Your relationship with money is just a reflection of your relationship with yourself. You're thinking about money is going to change when you start thinking, go down, go down the iceberg, go down the rabbit hole. Your behaviors. Are from your thoughts, your thoughts from your emotions, your emotions are from your beliefs, your beliefs are from your core wounds, your core wounds are your relationship with yourself and how you relate to these core wounds and certain stressful events that happened in the past, right?

Nadine Zumot: Not bashing, not poopooing. It is. Internalized from the perspective of a child. Mm hmm. I feel like you and I have covered this many, many times in our collaborations in the past. So, but to say that you, Oh, just change your thinking about money and that's it. It's going to change. That's hooey. Sorry. I mean, I don't want to bash anything, but come on.

Nadine Zumot: Right. That's not the way it's done. You don't just like change your thinking about like, Oh, okay. I love burgers and I can't stop eating hamburgers. I'm just going to change my thinking. Okay, hamburgers are not good. Okay, then I changed my thinking. Come on, go back to the root of why I can't stop eating these greasy food.

Nadine Zumot: Like, we need to go to the freaking root. Mm hmm.

Leigh Ann: Yes. We were talking about Darnell, Darnell, Darnell.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, Darnell. Yeah. And the

Leigh Ann: shoes and the game. And exactly what I wrote down was What, and I had this exact same thing, so I resonated with it so deeply, except I was spending all my money on food, is what is that thing soothing?

Leigh Ann: What is it

Nadine Zumot: soothing? And he never, he doesn't believe he has a problem.

Leigh Ann: You think so? No. Or he's

Nadine Zumot: just with you all? I

Leigh Ann: just want it. I know. I just want the game.

Nadine Zumot: I just want that level. He never believed that he has a problem. It's not a problem for him. Mm hmm. Yeah, I don't know what I mean. He's not my client.

Nadine Zumot: I don't know what his issue like what his story is or whatever. But like, you can't force someone to see that they have a problem when they can't see that they have a problem.

Leigh Ann: And I think even a little bit that we can ascertain from that is are there subconscious beliefs around because of X, Y, or Z, I deserve this.

Nadine Zumot: I don't know,

Leigh Ann: but the point I'm making there is twofold one, if we just treat the This symptom, which is I'm buying all these things. I'm overspending to soothe some deeper wound. And I just cut off that I cut off the overspending. That wound is going to continue to bleed. And we're going to do one of two things.

Leigh Ann: Either we are going to go back to that soother again and again, or We're going to find another soother and it's probably not going to be very expansive either. Maybe we stopped overspending and now I'm overeating. Maybe I stopped overeating and now I'm addicted to porn. You know what I mean? Like it's, we're going to find a way to soothe our subconscious wants to survive and to protect us.

Leigh Ann: It's just, can we clear out those old wounds and also expand and bring ourselves. Soothers that aren't so limiting.

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Nadine Zumot: So further into the show, Frank in the city. And I love that they spoke about their, like their past and the fact that their mother passed early and how painful that was. And they didn't really connect the dots between Frank's spending style and the idea that Perhaps from an inner child perspective, they felt abandoned from their mother.

Nadine Zumot: And here's the thing, a lot, I have a lot of clients that have similar issues to Frank, but they, um, you know, they also display that with their money behaviors. And the thing is, when money is your blankie, you can't just stop spending.

Leigh Ann: Right. Because you've taken away their safety. The

Nadine Zumot: blankie. Yes. So, I hope that somebody in the show sent, like, told Frank that they need a therapist or they need a somatic experiencing person or an actual, like, money energetics coach or something like that because they're very related.

Leigh Ann: Very, very related. And just from your perspective, what do you do in those instances when you see that, okay, money is a soother, I can't just jump in with this client and tell them, okay, stop spending X amount of dollars every month. What is that approach for you? How do you, it sounds like a big part of it is we need to create safety in other ways.

Leigh Ann: Of course.

Nadine Zumot: I can't give you a blanket answer to that because every single person is very unique and I don't want people to use this instead of like, Doing work with a practitioner because you, you know, this is for entertainment and education purposes, not to replace actual care. But yes, well, we enter through the gateway of the nervous system and.

Nadine Zumot: The first and foremost, you begin with safety, so, you know, I teach them self regulation tools, and then we do the co regulation, and then, I mean, you know, we talk about healing money wounds and all this, but I am not, like, I don't touch them and then poof, they're healed, I'm not a healer, what I really do is I teach them how, I give them the safe space, and Naturally, because we want to heal as as human beings, we want to thrive, we want to heal.

Nadine Zumot: So when you're given a fertile and safe ground, the shadows are going to come out. And that is who we deal with. We Complete trauma cycles that were never completed. We provide emotional attunement and emotional regulation to parts of the person that never received what was meant to be received at the time.

Nadine Zumot: And I pretty much mirror this for them in the beginning and teach them how to re parent themselves. So I, I provide the tools, I teach them how to use the tools, and then they could use these tools for everything, really. Yes. The healing happens naturally. It's not like, okay, we're going to heal now. Three, two, one, hold your breath, you know, none of that.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. It's a long. process. It's a slow process because the nervous system likes slow, no overwhelming, no exposure therapy. We don't go to like places that are dark, dark and scary. Like there's no, no need for any of that once we understand Everything. And it's all somatic and it's all just understanding that it's not a mental exercise.

Nadine Zumot: It's a somatic event, meaning it all happens below the neck. We're not talking to you. Yeah, we're not talking to your smart brain because we're talking to the primitive part of you. That's where the trauma has happened.

Leigh Ann: Exactly. Okay. I have a couple of places I want to go, but What else is coming up for you?

Leigh Ann: Is there some other really specific highlights for you? So, okay, so one of the things I want to point out that for me was like, whoa, I had come to this conclusion prior to seeing the show, but I loved that I was able to see it in the show because it, it was like, Such an, a validation and affirmation, which is my old beliefs were, if I just made more money, all my problems would go away.

Leigh Ann: And I had a big epiphany maybe two years ago now where I realized, hold on, where the path I'm on right now, if I make more money, I'm just going to go into more debt, more money equals more debt based on my patterns right now. And there's two things I want to say to this first. When I saw the woman who was making 25, 000 a month, still living paycheck to paycheck, I was like, Oh my God, this is it.

Leigh Ann: This is proof. Yeah. That's, you know, that could have been me if I hadn't figured some of this stuff out. But if we want to get into like the energetics and the manifestation of it all, I really do believe I was subconsciously repelling financial abundance because I knew If I received that abundance at that point in my life, it was going to do more harm than good.

Nadine Zumot: Your higher, your higher self, as they say, was like, no, she's not ready. She's not ready. She's not ready.

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Well, or like subconsciously, consciously I wanted more money. I want more money so I can have more of this, do this. But subconsciously I actually was afraid of more money because I knew I was just going to continue to live in these patterns.

Leigh Ann: And so I actually think subconsciously I was repelling it. Oh, I see what you

Nadine Zumot: mean. Okay. So I went like, well, you said energetic. So I was like,

Leigh Ann: Oh, no, I mean, I think we're actually saying the same thing, but it's kind of like when, when things that we quote unquote think we want aren't coming to us in our life.

Leigh Ann: Often I believe there's some deeper subconscious beliefs that we don't actually want it for whatever

Nadine Zumot: reason. It's a protective mechanism. Yeah. People call it self sabotage or limiting beliefs or whatever. I'm like, don't do that. Don't insult your wisdom, please. Thank you.

Leigh Ann: Right. Cause at that point it was true.

Leigh Ann: If I had made more money at that time, I would have gone into more debt, you know, cause I didn't, I, I wasn't. Looking at those deeper wounds and the patterns that was going on here.

Nadine Zumot: Yes. So, like, I think it was what happened a while ago, like years ago, when I first started. I want more clients! I want more clients!

Nadine Zumot: And then when I thought about it, I'm like, where? Where do I put these new clients? Like, I don't have the structure to, like, to wholeheartedly support more clients. That would have been a disservice to them. And that made me believe that I needed help and I needed some more other like systems in place to kind of like streamline things.

Nadine Zumot: But yeah, like on a subconscious level, there is a reason why we kind of stop abundance in a, in a way that's We think it's self sabotage, but it's not. Mm hmm.

Leigh Ann: Yeah, exactly. The subconscious is only ever trying to protect us. It's just, we need to understand what does it think it's protecting us from. And is that a real And is that a real

Nadine Zumot: threat?

Nadine Zumot: Is that a capital T truth? Or a small T truth? Like what? I was onboarding a client earlier. And I was telling her, like, we listen to these parts. We don't allow them to drive the car. And we don't take everything they say as truth. It's valid. It's important. We need to listen to it. Yeah. But that's not truth.

Leigh Ann: And and or. Maybe it was true at one point, but it's not anymore. It's true

Nadine Zumot: to them. It's true to that part.

Leigh Ann: Maybe it was a threat at one point in my life, but it's not a threat now. Or if it is still a threat, can I see that now as an adult, I have so much more autonomy and empowerment to protect myself.

Leigh Ann: Exactly. Yeah. Oh, gosh, I love this. Did you get any specific questions from clients or followers about the show?

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, they were asking, What do you think? And then I said, Well, no one was asking why? And they're like, Yes, I kept hearing you in my head saying, Why? Why? Why are you doing that? Because I've, they've got my voice in there.

Nadine Zumot: Like, why? And it's not like this, whatever, like five layer why question. It's not none of that. It's more like, What are the subconscious, um, drives for that? Like, what are you trying to soothe? What are you trying to, like, what is your psyche trying to protect you from? I still want to know the story, how Darnell's story ended with his sneakers.

Nadine Zumot: Like, poor guy.

Leigh Ann: Or where they're at now.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, where they're at now. Yeah. And I know that it was quite like, um, There, it was that pattern was putting the family financially behind. I understand, but you can't just tell him to stop buying things without understanding. What is he trying to soothe and try to heal that?

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. The root of that to heal it, to move forward. Otherwise they might be good for the show for a year or two. And then hopefully not. I mean, I could be wrong, but yeah,

Leigh Ann: yeah, no, I agree. Your heart does kind of go out from our perspective of, okay, great. Maybe you're starting to get your finances under control.

Leigh Ann: And maybe that does give you the, a little bit more of a strong foundation you need to go then do that deeper work. But yeah, I think both of us see that inner child that is just trying to soothe the wound and we're like, Oh, we're. Don't take away, yeah, don't take away his blankie. Um, let's figure out the deep root so that wound doesn't even need soothing anymore.

Leigh Ann: You know, what did you think about Matt and Amini and their dynamic in the beginning? I think they were in that first episode and she was making all the money. No one asked her

Nadine Zumot: why she can't trust her husband. What happened? And she shared that her dad walked, walked out on them and all that, but like. She obviously doesn't trust her husband and everybody's like, Oh, what a bitch.

Nadine Zumot: She doesn't trust her husband. Her husband is so nice. Yeah. But what happened? Why there is a reason not again, like what is her truth? What happened that made it to, to where she doesn't trust her husband, you know, like, yeah, not saying the husband is. wrong or that he did something. But there is a protection around her heart about this.

Nadine Zumot: We can't just force it. Trust him. Trust him. Go and have some champagne with him and trust him. I love that, you know, he guided him to get a job and all that. That's really good. It's really cool. Like he seemed very happy with it. No, nothing seemed forced. But um, I think what was a little bit forced was asking, um, I can't I forgot her name.

Nadine Zumot: It's a very pretty name. The acrobat.

Leigh Ann: Oh, I can't remember.

Nadine Zumot: Safina. When he asked her to, like, kind of, like, encouraged to sell the apartment, her condo. I felt like. That was a very big moment for her.

Leigh Ann: In case you're new to the Accrescent community, you might not know that in addition to this podcast, I also work with clients one on one, in person and remotely, using EVOX voice mapping and biofeedback therapy, as well as pairing that with a number of different modalities and specialties, including subconscious work, somatic experiencing, neurolinguistic programming.

Leigh Ann: And really, my ultimate goal is to help clients start to identify what is going on in my subconscious mind that is keeping me stuck in limiting emotional patterns, limiting behavioral patterns, and maybe even poor health. I work with a lot of chronic illness and cancer patients to, number one, support them through that present day turbulence of the diagnoses that they're experiencing, helping them have more peace, more clarity as they're going through that process, but also doing some of that deep detective work of might there be some past unresolved turbulence, past unprocessed Trauma or adverse experiences that are contributing to the dis ease in my body that might be contributing to the disease that I'm experiencing.

Leigh Ann: If you want to learn more, there's links in the show notes to learn about EVOX therapy, my process, as well as a link to to book a discovery call, a free discovery call, if you want to be able to ask more questions, talk with me face to face, and just get to know a little bit more before booking your first appointment.

Leigh Ann: Yeah, and just, again, what are all, what are the What's the narrative? What's the story? What are the beliefs that are coming up within her in that decision? Am I, am I a failure? Am I, you know,

Nadine Zumot: she did so well to save for a condo and she did such a good job and he was like, too much. And to be honest, there was a fair bit of shame.

Nadine Zumot: Like the sh I don't know. And this is something my clients were like, really? You thought that there was shame? I think because

Leigh Ann: he paired it with humor.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, I think it was for dramatic effect for the show. Okay. Again, a pair of sneakers. You pay all that for your condo and you're this much you make this much like there was like this factor that was maybe needed for dramatic effect.

Nadine Zumot: But Fuck, that is so shame inducing.

Leigh Ann: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, and he paired it with a lot of laughter. He paired it with a lot of laughter, which I think eases the blow a little bit. I know. But after the fact, after the fact, how does she feel? How

Nadine Zumot: are they? We don't shame people for their money, um, things at all.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. Like, no,

Leigh Ann: don't do that. I will say, It wasn't, I guess a positive too for me was it wasn't like a direct copy and paste for each person or each couple. That's a good point. I do think he, he was able to refine it for that, you know, like the woman who wanted a business, it was like, okay, write me a business plan.

Leigh Ann: And as she went through that process, she was able to go, okay, this makes no financial sense. And then maybe for someone else, it's. Does having the condo make sense? For someone else, it's how can we afford the house? So,

Nadine Zumot: yeah, I think he's, I honestly think he is great. Like, I would love to have him on an, I don't know if he wants to, you know, have him on an interview for my, like, I would like to hang out with him and have a coffee, you know, kind of thing.

Nadine Zumot: I think he's a really cool person and, um, I wouldn't have chosen anybody better for a Netflix show. Yeah.

Leigh Ann: No, I mean, he's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. What, like, Any final takeaways, like if you had a client who was watching this or, or not, like someone who actually isn't working with you, who really is struggling with their finances, they feel lost, they're feeling shame, they're feeling avoidant, they watch the show, what might be for you, like some big takeaways to give them of like, great.

Leigh Ann: I hope you got some good things out of that. And could I also add this that you might take away?

Nadine Zumot: Yeah, I would say to Um, understand that the numbers, the actual nuts and bolts have nothing to do with their worth or how good they are, or if they're a good person, that is just an aspect of their life. It's not their whole life, even though money is very, very tightly connected with worth.

Nadine Zumot: I mean, look at the word net worth. Come on. Come on. Yep. You cannot calculate your net worth from a mathematical equation, right? So I would say take it with a grain of salt. Watch it like you're watching a cooking show. You know, don't, it's not a life or death thing. And if you can't watch it, or if you can't bring yourself to watch it, It's probably not right for you, trust your nervous system, but reach out to people.

Nadine Zumot: Like, I'm not saying reach out to me or Leanne, but like speak to someone that you trust, like a friend or speak to your parents or journal, like get yourself in a nice, like Delta state in through journaling and understand what your beliefs are about money and understand what's coming up for you. There are ways to do it on your own.

Nadine Zumot: It's obviously better. Well, I can't really say better. It's, it's. When it's guided, it's quicker. You're in pain and for less time kind of thing. Um, but yeah, just. Reach out to people. There's no shame in like speaking to a friend and just say, Hey, can we go out for a walk and talk about money for a second, you know, or if your parents are around, ask them, ask them about their own money story.

Nadine Zumot: Start normalizing talking about money within yourself so that you start dissolving that shame and listen to Leanne's podcast. Listen to my podcast. Um, I talk a lot about my story and I've had people from all over the world reach out and say, Hey, You were raised in Jordan. I was raised in like completely different place, like opposite place, but your story felt like it was my story.

Nadine Zumot: And why I say this is because healing happens in community. Right? If we go back and think about our ancestors sitting around a fire and sharing stories and songs and dance, that is, that was their healing ritual. So by sharing your story, by listening to other people's real story, not like, oh my God, Rags to Riches kind of story, but like real life story of what they went through and how they overcame whatever it is that they went through, that all normalizes this taboo subject.

Nadine Zumot: Yeah. Yeah. That's

Leigh Ann: what I would say. I love, I mean, that's a mic drop right there. That's so good. And I think what I'd add to that too, is it's also a great opportunity to, as you're watching the show, just observe what's happening within you. Of course. And that can tell you a lot. Yeah. But yeah, a lot about like, If it feels intimidating to start diving into some of the deeper work and this or that, we could just start with, let me watch the show and just notice, is there fear coming up?

Leigh Ann: Is there shame coming up? Does my heart start to race? Without judging yourself. Yeah. I think there's a lot you could deduce just from there. And that could be a really great starting point. I love that. I think that, you know, again, all in all great show. Yeah. Great show. I think it's, there's a lot of great tidbits in there.

Leigh Ann: We just wanted to expand on it a little bit with our lenses. So I love that. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you for

Nadine Zumot: having me again, Leigh Ann.