In this episode of Future Thinking, Helen Barden talks to Ros Blazejczyk, Managing Partner at Solis Marine, about ship decarbonization efforts in the maritime industry. Ros details Solis Marine's projects involving ammonia as a marine fuel, including retrofitting and new build options, and discusses the various challenges and safety considerations associated with implementing new fuel technologies on existing vessels. They also touch on the broader implications for ship design, safety regulations, and the economics of retrofitting versus new builds.

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction to Future Thinking Miniseries

00:25 Guest Introduction: Ros Blazejczyk from Solis Marine

00:39 Solis Marine: Background and Services

01:46 Ammonia as a Future Fuel for Shipping

03:31 Challenges of Retrofitting vs. New Builds

07:01 Energy Density and Fuel Storage Issues

09:38 Hybrid Systems and Future-Proofing Designs

11:39 Safety Considerations in Ship Design

15:42 Regulatory Challenges and Cost Implications

20:06 Retrofitting Ships for Decarbonization

22:27 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview

[00:00:31] Thanks very much for joining me today, Ros.

[00:00:35] Helen Barden: Perhaps if we could start, Ros, by you giving us a bit of your background and Um, an introduction to Solace Marine, um, and the work you do there.

[00:01:09] So, Solace was set up to focus on, uh, shipping incident investigation, salvage and wreck removal. But since then we've diversified, so we're, we're really a full service marine consultancy now, providing expert technical services to ship owners, insurers, lawyers, and government agencies worldwide. Uh, and then in 2018, we set up our engineering division and through there, we provide naval architecture and design engineering, uh, on a wide range of projects in clean shipping, marine renewables, and offshore projects.

[00:01:50] Helen Barden: Great. Thank you, Roz. Now, ammonia has very much been marked as one of the key future fuels for shipping as we move away from fossil fuels. And my understanding is that you've been developing designs, um, in relation to retrofitting ships with, uh, engines capable of burning ammonia. And I just wondered if you could tell us a bit more about that.

[00:02:31] This was the world's first use of ammonia as a marine fuel and they've just completed the sea trials for that here in Singapore earlier this year. Um, our role in that was to provide naval architecture and design engineering relating to the integration of Fortis Q's ammonia fuel technology onto the existing vessel.

[00:03:13] So that's probably our most, our most recent involvement with, with ammonia fuel vessels. And it's nice to see that as, as the world's first really on the water now. And. Operating on ammonia is good.

[00:03:50] What are the different challenges that you face with the two? Um,

[00:04:11] So as an example, we, we recently worked on a project to convert a survey vessel to run entirely on a hydrogen fuel system. And that the idea was to entirely replace the existing diesel system, um, with a hydrogen fuel cells driving, uh, electric motors. So complete replacement of the system. As with any project, we started with a review of, um, the way the vessel operates and looking at its duty cycle, then looking at how we can potentially reduce the required range of the vessel, because then you can reduce your fuel storage requirements.

[00:05:09] But what that project is now doing is looking at a hybrid system for the same vessel. So what that's going to do is actually still going to be using hydrogen with fuel cells, but actually put that, um, drivetrain in parallel with the existing diesel drivetrain. So then the vessel's got the option of working in zero emissions mode.

[00:05:47] So it's all very well saying that a vessel can operate on zero emissions mode all the time, but. If for some reason there's no hydrogen available, then they've got to be able to still, to still do their job. So I think that highlights some of the issues, yeah, just filling in a new technology into a, an existing vessel that, that wouldn't have been designed to, to have those types of solutions on board.

[00:07:07] Ros Blazejczyk: And yeah, so if, if we're talking about the energy density or the, or the volumetric energy density. density, then you need an awful lot more space, particularly with, with hydrogen. I think it's five times more space or more volume that you'd need compared with, um, fossil fuels and ammonia itself is two or two and a half times.

[00:07:46] So that's really why ammonia is certainly coming to the fore as, as the key, um, solution for, for deep sea shipping is in terms of a, a zero carbon option. Um, methanol is up there as well, but obviously that still contains carbon. But that's really the, that's, you know, really one of the key drivers because if you look at alternative fuels and propulsion, really the starting point is a fully electric solution because um, electric motors are so much more efficient than internal combustion engines.

[00:08:38] So it's great for, um, short haul ferries, maybe fishing vessels, leisure craft. Um, but then as you, as your requirements get longer, then we have to start looking at other options. That's when hydrogen fuel cells come in and that might extend your range through to, um, a few days or, or maybe a week with a hybrid system.

[00:09:19] It's all driven by that operating profile of the, of the vessel that you mentioned. So when we approach this project, that's always the starting point. It's like, right, let's look at the operate, the way the vessel operates. As you say, look at, you know, what, what fuels are going to be available potentially, what the range requirements are and so on.

[00:09:57] And I think one of the key issues for ship owners at the moment is they don't know, you know, what fuels are going to be available necessarily down the line. So quite a lot of our projects look at hybrid approaches where. We might have electric motors fitted, but then that electric drive chain can be fueled by either hydrogen fuel cells or eventually potentially ammonia fuel cells, or even just existing fossil fuels.

[00:10:42] So yeah, that's one of the approaches that, that works quite well, kind of, yeah, again for vessels at the smaller end, end of the range, not, not so much for deep sea vessels operating with, um, more constant speed, shall we say. Yeah.

[00:11:14] The, you know, the regulations aren't fully in place either that it's, um, it's difficult for ship owners at the moment to decide which way to go. So I think it's, it's interesting to hear that there are kind of options to potentially try and future proof things, um, things a bit. And just wonder if we, if we go back to ammonia briefly and looking at some of the issues around the use of ammonia.

[00:12:16] Ros Blazejczyk: Yeah. So the safety considerations really. They, they drive the design right from the start, actually. So even, um, from right in the beginning, when you're looking at the layout on the vessel, so, um, where your fuel tank's going to go, where's the balance of equipment going to be. That's all already driven by safety requirements.

[00:12:58] that drive that initial concept design. So it starts at that stage and then moving forward into, as we get slightly more detailed, you have to have secondary enclosures around any piping and equipment or any space that might contain ammonia at any time. So the secondary enclosure is, is like your first line of defense.

[00:13:43] So that means they'll have normal ventilation ongoing all the time, and then they'll have a catastrophe ventilation system that can be started as well in case of a release. And then you're in on the both of those systems, you have a primary and a secondary system as well. So you have full redundancy. So it just means that you can't, no one failure can cause, um, cause an issue with, with all of those systems.

[00:14:17] Helen Barden: And, and then following on from that, I suppose the, there's the training aspect and the operational aspect that then gets dealt with from the safety side for the crew. Um, something that we talked about with a, with a previous guest, James Forsdyke from the Maritime Decarbonization Hub, he was talking about human centric design as opposed to system led design in the future, um, to try.

[00:15:22] Ros Blazejczyk: Yeah, I think it's, it's something that's, um, becoming more and more important. I think sort of safety led design is definitely prevalent across, um, all of the work that we do actually. On the alternative fuel side of things, there are risks with ammonia, there are risks with hydrogen, um, with any gases really.

[00:16:00] So we might start a project with one set of rules and then by the end of the project, the rules have changed. Um, and I just found out yesterday that one set of rules that we were using. for one of our projects has changed again. And that would have, you know, almost entirely changed the vessel design that we'd done for that particular project.

[00:16:39] We've got projects in other parts of the world where the flag states, um, less engaged, shall we say, more from a lack of resources than anything else. Um, they're just not able to commit resources to really engage with, with projects. So yeah, I think that that's our sort of experience of it, if you like. Um, you know, I think the safety critical aspects of there, they're incorporated in, in the design from the very beginning.

[00:17:07] Helen Barden: that's interesting. I mean, the fact that you have to be quite fluid when it comes to working on the design and changes throughout the process in terms of change and regulation, and I suppose that can also mean that cost increases when you're having to make these changes as the process goes on? And just touching upon that side of things in relation to the cost, how prohibitive do you think at the moment cost is when it comes to retrofitting ships for the likes of ammonia or hydrogen?

[00:17:51] Ros Blazejczyk: It, yeah, it's a really interesting point because having, uh, just a few minutes ago said how wonderful electric motors are and how efficient they are, um, and all the rest of it. But actually, if you look at fuel cells, they're really expensive. So the project on the survey vessel that we were, we were doing, the costing for the fuel cells, it would have cost, I think, 1.

[00:18:27] So. There are definite issues at that end of the market, but that's where actually ammonia and the internal combustion engine comes to the fore because internal combustion engines are obviously very well established technology. There's a completely developed supply chain in terms of manufacturers, spares, maintenance, and all the rest of it.

[00:19:16] So, um, so they had all these buses going around with great big bags on top of them with ammonia inside them. I'm not sure how safe it was and it probably wouldn't be allowed these days, but it's, you know, it's not really completely new technology. We've also got ammonia on the International Space Station.

[00:19:57] So, um, I think that probably we'll see a more cost effective approach compared to the, um, the smaller vessels, which have, can potentially make greater efficiency savings, but are dealing with, um, with cost issues for sure.

[00:20:39] In order to meet the greenhouse gas strategy from the IMO, um, to reach net zero around 2050.

[00:21:12] We'll go for new builds and it really varies, but we found that depending on the processes used in terms of the raw materials, so if you've got your iron ore coming out of the ground in Australia, being shipped to China and then being processed there into steel and so on. The emissions from that process compared with the emissions from the retrofitting process, we found that it, that new build needs between three and six years to start making a net gain.

[00:22:31] Ros Blazejczyk: No problem. Thanks very much for having me.

[00:22:53] You'll find the Alongside podcast and this mini series on the North Standard website at north standard. com or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also click follow to ensure you don't miss an episode. So from me, Helen Barden, thank you for listening and bye for now.