What’s the Story is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people.

Here's a Summary of this week's story:

• Simon visited Burundi in the late 1990s as a 25-year-old. He had been praying that he would go anywhere, do anything. To his surprise, a man tracked him down and said that God wanted him to go to Burundi. Simon ended up going and his life changed dramatically because of it.
• God provides for those who trust in him even in difficult situations. He promises to never leave nor forsake his people.
• Simon met his wife when he was back in England and proposed to her in Rwanda by asking if she was willing to be a young widow. They went on to get married and have two kids to whom they model how to live a life of faith, not fear.
• Wearing "Jesus goggles" allows everything to be seen through the lens of Christ, which brings joy that does not depend on the circumstances.
• We are wired to be selfish and self-centered but gratitude is the key that can help us overcome it.

----------------------------

About Simon

Simon is an author, speaker, social entrepreneur, family man, cyclist and charity founder. Now married with three children, he and his wife Lizzie have both been awarded an MBE for their services to Burundi.

Simon is author of the bestselling Choose Life – 365 readings for radical disciples, voted ‘Devotional of the Year 2015’. He is also the author of ‘More than Conquerors‘, ‘Sacrifice‘ and ‘Dangerously Alive‘ and has over 25,000 social media followers who read his challenging, frequently shocking, sometimes amusing and always authentic tweets and blog posts.

Having unexpectedly survived 7 years of genocide and civil war, he set up a charity, Great Lakes Outreach with the vision to transform Burundi, now helping well over 100,000 of the very neediest people every year in strategic and sustainable ways.

Welcome to, what's the story?

My name is Matt Edmundson, and this is a podcast full of stories about

courage and faith from everyday people.

And today I am chatting with Simon Gillebaud about their Christian

journey, about his challenges that he's faced in life and some of the

lessons he's learned along the way.

But before we get into it, uh, Simon, one of the things I love to do is give

a shout out to past guests and episodes and it makes sense today to mention,

uh, an episode we recorded recently called Higher Heights and Deeper

Seas with Malcolm and Trish Morgan.

Big shout out to the Morgans because they were the ones that

connected me with your good self.

So, uh, thanks Malc and Trish.

Uh, you can find that episode and our entire archive of episodes, uh, on our

website for free, www.crowd.church, and whilst ask you're there, make

sure you sign up to our newsletter.

As each week we will email you the links and notes from the conversations,

uh, direct to your inbox totally free, which is shamazing as they say.

Now, this episode is brought to you by Crowd Online Church.

Uh, not everyone wants to go to church.

Not everyone can even get to a church building, and this is where online

church works super well as it is a safe space to explore the Christian faith.

And the thing that I love about Crowd is that you get to join

in and shape the conversation.

So if you've never been to church before, or if you're looking for a

new church, Do check out Crowd Church.

The website is www.crowd.church.

There we go.

I'll put it up on the screen.

For those of you watching the video, uh, you can also email

me directly, matt@crowd.church with any questions that you have.

Now today's guest, Simon, is an author, a speaker, a social entrepreneur,

a family man, and a cyclist.

And that's important.

He's also the founder, uh, of, uh, a charity.

He's now married with three children.

Uh, his wife is called Lizzy, and they've both been awarded an MBE

for their services to Burundi.

Simon is the author of the Best Selling Choose Life, 365

Readings for Radical Discipleship.

He is also the author of More Than Conquerors, Sacrifice and Dangerously

Alive, which has got to be one of the coolest book titles ever.

Uh, he's also got 25,000 social media followers uh, who read his

Challenging, frequently shocking, sometimes amusing, uh, but always

authentic tweets and blog posts.

So, uh, having unexpectedly survived seven years of genocide and civil war, he's set

up a charity called Great Lakes Outreach, uh, with the vision to transform Burundi

now helping well over a hundred thousand of the various neediest people every

year in strategic and sustainable ways.

Mate, I've been looking forward to this conversation.

Simon, great to have you on the podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me, man.

How are we doing today?

Yeah, good.

I'm looking forward to our time together.

Yeah, it's gonna be great.

Now it goes without saying, actually, it's probably worth saying, uh, right

here at the start, you actually have your own podcast as well, don't you,

doing a similar thing, which is great.

So let's just do a quick plug for that while we're here.

Um, just tell the folks about the work, about the podcasting.

Great.

Well, um, it's called Inspired with Simon Gillebaud inspired with

whichever guest, and basically my concept was through lockdown.

And since we're just bombarded by negative news and we all end up feeling depressed

and battling mental health issues.

So every week it's a blast of, uh, glory stories of, of the nitty gritty of people.

You know, we, the second book more than conquerors, we are more than conquerors.

Mm.

But that the other side, that's verse 37 of Romans eight, the other side,

that's after verse 35, which says, who shall separate us from the love of God?

Shall trouble, hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness, dangerous sort.

No.

In all these things, we are more than conquerors.

Yeah.

Not fluffy Christianity.

It's nitty gritty from mates from all sort of different walks of life and its

obviously hitting the spot because, uh, we got people in over a hundred countries,

um, you know, tracking with us and.

It's a boost to, to people's faith to believe that, yeah,

God is still in his throne.

And enough of the fear, let's choose faith over fear and gratitude over grumbling

all those different choices that we need to make every day Great stuff.

So Inspired with Simon Gillebaud that's on Spotify, iTunes, whatever.

Yeah, I've, I'm, I'm a listener.

I'm an avid listener.

Actually.

I listen to the, uh, the iTunes version cause I'm a bit of an Apple man.

So, uh, do check out Simon's podcast.

It is, honestly, it's a great podcast.

Very inspiring.

I like the stories.

I love the stories, actually some of the stories that come out of it.

Um, so tell me about Great Lakes Outreach, because there's.

It.

I know your story a little bit, so it's not just like one day you woke up and

said, oh, I'm just gonna set up this charity called Great Lakes Outreach.

So there's a bit of a story behind that.

So we're gonna dig into that.

But just so we know where we're heading, just tell us a little

bit about what the charity does.

Okay.

Well, Burundi is the hungriest of the poorest country in the world right now.

And I went out there in 1998, 99, and at the time it was the most

dangerous country in the world.

So we've improved on one indices, so we're not the most dangerous.

Okay.

But it's basically, it's like Rwanda.

It used to be one country with Rwanda, so it's post genocidal area.

Although I experienced seven years of that war as a 13 year war in Burundi.

Um, so desperate needs on, on, on every level, be it spiritual, humanitarian.

And what we, what we are now all these years on, is a dream team of, um,

of the best local burundian leaders.

We identify, empower, equip the best local leaders, passion,

integrity, gifting, and vision for the transformation of the nation.

Bottom up and top down.

Mm.

Involved in, uh, in education, in street kids, in aids, and

getting prostitutes back on their feet with a more, more sort of a.

Well, a healthier profession, if you like.

Uh, agriculture, microfinance, uh, I mean the list goes on using sport as a

vehicle for, uh, societal transformation.

Welcoming about returning refugees.

Um, bible training, evangelism and discipleship, reaching

the unreached people group.

I mean, the list goes on.

I haven't covered everything, so it's multi-faceted.

And the beauty of it is that some of God's best troops are in Burundi.

And if you've still got faith when you've had a hell of a time like your

wife being raped and people killed, you know, family around you, you still

believe in God and you still have a, you know, clinging to that reality.

Then the, yeah, depth of faith of these guys is absolutely phenomenal.

And so we're just helping them to change the nation by

themselves and it's beautiful.

It's very contested.

It's cliche, but it's in the darkest places that the light shines brightest.

Mm-hmm..

So it's the world that's known the most bloodshed, literally

that central African, uh, region.

Congo, Rwanda, Burundi, uh, but gorgeous brothers and sisters doing

amazing stuff, and I get the privilege just to get alongside them and, and,

and help them change their nation.

It's, it's fantastic.

It sounds, um, uh, I mean, in some respects it sounds amazing, but on the

other hand, it's like the fact that we, that you have to do that, uh, It is

quite, it's quite sad in a lot of ways, but it's, it's quite, it's lovely to

hear the story of the transformation.

So what I want to do, Simon, is, I mean this is sort of where we're gonna head up.

You obviously got a deep passion for this charity.

I'm really curious how this journey for you started.

Right?

So if we, we sort of rewind the clock a little bit and um, backtrack.

When you, you said that you went to Burundi for, you were

in Burundi, what did you say?

Seven years in the late nineties, something like that.

Did you, uh, can I ask, how old were you when you ventured over

to the, uh, to the country?

Yeah.

I was 25.

25.

And basically I'd been on, uh, many listeners would be or viewers

would be on a sort of career progression track at that age.

And I'd, I'd had a very privileged upbringing.

Uh, and so I was in the city in London and the financial city center

there, and this guy tracked me down.

I'd never met him before.

I had been praying, Lord, I'll do anything, I'll go anywhere.

Mm-hmm.

So I gave my life to Jesus when I was about 15, sort of wrestled through

school with, you know, smoking weed and, and, and, and getting hammered and

treating girls rather badly, but whilst

kind of following Jesus, but clearly not very effectively.

not very consistently.

Um, and then got a good degree.

I'm a sportsman.

I went to L University.

Uh, loved it there, had a passion for Jesus.

So thought, that I would end up doing something pretty crazy and I

was praying, Lord, I'll do anything.

I'll go anywhere.

So that was the backstory.

So I'm in a good job.

I'm saying, Lord, I'll do anything.

I'll go anywhere.

And this guy tracked me down in the city in London, said,

I believe God sent me to you.

He wants you to go to Burundi and be involved in youth and.

outreach And my heart sort of stirring in my chest saying, God, is this

a nut job or is this, is this you?

Yeah, through.

And, uh, so I said, all right, thanks weirdo.

I'll think about it.

I'll , I'll pray about it.

And I went back to my job and I was in front of the computer and I said,

God, right now, if that wasn't some nut job, if that was you, then give

me, gimme a radical sign right now in front of the computer, because

that'll mean leaving family, friends, security, career, everything going

to place where I might get killed.

People have tried to kill me, so gimme a radical sign right now.

And I, I don't, I don't, I can't remember.

It was 25 years ago.

How, how long?

I waited, it wasn't long, but I took a phone call and the voice on the

other end out the blue said, you know anyone who wants to work in Burundi?

And I was like, wow.

So, so I lost the plot in the office.

People thought I was more weird than usual.

Within a few minutes, I had packed my bags and I'd gone and, you know, literally,

my Life swun on that phone call, I'd said, give me a sign about Burundi.

Do you know anyone who wants to work in Burundi?

Boom?

And hundreds of thousands of lives have been radically transformed

because of that phone call.

It's amazing to consider, and I'm not saying that to my glory, cuz I

know the fickleness of my own heart.

I do know that God is amazing.

And if you find that sweet spot of the alignment of your passion, what you're

passionate about, uh, what you're good at, cuz you might be passionate about

leading a band, but have a terrible voice.

That's not an alignment of passion and gifting, but passion

gifting, and then opportunity.

And if you say, Lord, I'll do anything, I'll go anywhere, then

you're giving him permission just to do anything with your life.

And you know, then you're off on the adventure of living and I love Jesus.

John 10.

10 says, I've come to have life and life to the full life and abundance.

It's not a soft sell, it's not an easy life, but I am living

life to the full by his grace.

And it's, it's a beautiful thing and I'd long for everyone

to experience that as well.

Oh geez.

Yeah.

You and me both.

Uh, and we'll get into that.

I'm curious though, Simon, who was on the phone?

So that was a mate who had heard, uh, actually through a Christian

organization called Tier Fund that they were looking for people for Burundi.

So he, he'd rung me up in that context.

And, and funny enough, I, I rang that lady who was, who was recruiting,

and I said, oh, this just happened.

And we quickly established that it wasn't for me, but I, I had just said,

Lord Lord, gimme a call about Burundi.

And I was in a marketing job.

I had nothing to do with Africa, and it was for full disclosure.

Uh, this is important to say.

I had been to Burundi before that.

I drove a truck from England to Kenya two years before that.

My great-grandfather was buried out there.

So, funny enough, I'd actually been saying anywhere but Burundi to God.

Like, what?

Enough, like, I wanna do something new.

I thought the Lord might pull me.

Cambodia, I was looking at youth work.

So, so that's just so that people know that it wasn't completely out of nowhere,

but it, but it was out of nowhere in, in, in the sense that I had said, Lord, you

know, I, I want to tread my own furrow.

I don't, I don't want to be, um, you know, known as the

great grandson of, or whatever.

And in that context, I got that beautiful dramatic call and uh,

yeah, it's been a rocky road since, but who wants an easy road?

I don't think anyone who takes an easy road has an interesting life.

It's just dull.

That's very true.

I think that's very, very true.

Loads of people, their highest aspiration seems to be to arrive safely at death.

And that is not a very compelling vision.

And certainly it's not the vision at the, the life of faith that Jesus calls us to.

Mm-hmm.

He said, for example, John 16, verse 33 says, in this world you will have trouble.

That's a reality.

But take heart, I've overcome the world.

Mm-hmm.

And so again, we are more than conquerors.

I say that again.

Uh, you know, we are overcomers, but life is, you know, in the last few weeks

I've had, I was telling you before, some major sucker punches going on in

my personal life, family life, but.

But you know, we just gotta stand firm.

Our life is built on the rock.

And so when, when challenges come, yes, we'll be shaken, but we will not give up.

Mm-hmm.

, that's so powerful.

So powerful.

So, you, you went to Burundi before you did this.

You drove a truck from England to Kenya as you do.

Uh, you know, because why, why would you not?

Um, and you mentioned your great-grandfather, was it your

great-grandfather's buried out there?

So do, do you have, um, was your great-grandfather out there cuz of

work or because of missionary uh, work?

Do you have this sort of heritage of missionaries or is it just happenstance?

Yeah, no, I got a wonderful heritage.

So my great-grandfather went out as an old Anglican, you know, to kick plant,

get the church going in Central Africa.

He died, I mean, he was like a, a big theologian in his own right.

And he died when he was 53.

If he had lived another 30 years, he would've been a John's thought

type character, or, or John Piper, because he'd, he was already

writing the bestsellers of the day.

Um, but he died, he'd started translating two books to the

Bible, his daughter carried on translating the rest of the Bible.

His son, my grandfather translated the Bible into Kenya, Rwanda, to the north.

The other daughter translated into Buri and Sudan.

So they were, you know, massive brains.

And my grandfather was, The top dog at Cambridge in maths.

There's a, an award each year called the Senior Wrangler.

Best, best mathematician of his, of his intake, his generation

at Cambridge University.

And his professors.

When he said he was gonna go off to Central Africa to tell people

like Jesus, oh no, what a waste, what a waste of this brain.

But he, he literally impacted millions of lives cuz he put the word of God

into their own language and he had a, he had a wonderful experience, you know,

through, well, I mean grim as well.

Cause they experienced genocide and losing, hundreds of their

friends that had to face genocide.

But, um, he's also saw, yeah, I mean numbers, just massive numbers

of people life transformed.

So yeah, life to the full, again, he lived it, he modeled it.

I'm grateful for it.

Mm-hmm.

So you have this amazing heritage then, uh, in Africa with your, your family,

your, you're saying God anywhere but Africa, and you get this phone call.

and, and sort of life changes.

Where were you at in terms, you're, you're in your early twenties and

you, you sort of said when you started out at 15, you became a Christian,

you kind of had a rocky start.

Um, it's almost like you're trying to live two lives at the same time.

You know, we've, uh, we've talked about this on, on the podcast

before where you, where I,

I use the quote from Mr.

Miyagi, Simon, you know, where he talks about, uh, walk on left side,

safe, walk on right side, safe.

Walk in the middle, squish just like grape, which is, it's a really

interesting phrase, isn't it?

And I, I, and this idea of trying to live the, the best of both worlds together.

Um, so where were you in your faith at the time of this phone call?

Oh yeah.

No, I was, I was, I was all in.

I was, uh, I was na I had started giving talks around schools and universities

and just seeing that that was a gift.

Mm-hmm.

and that people responding people's lives and being changed.

So I wanted to experience a normal job, like, um, the pressures

and the responsibilities of a normal job, uh, as a follower of

Jesus to see what that was like.

Cause I think that's good, that's healthy life experience if you're then gonna be

speaking mainly to people who are not full-time, or that's the wrong word.

Yeah.

Ministry terms, so, so, um, I knew that I was, and that I'm wired,

you know, I'm wired for risk and adventure and, uh, crazy stuff.

So, um, it was just a question of how long that sort of apprenticeship

was gonna be, if you like.

Yeah, no, fair enough.

And so, so, uh, you, you set off for Burundi in the late nineties.

What then happened?

first few weeks in Burundi, is it, uh, do you know what you're

doing when you're over there?

Do you have a plan or do you just turn up.

Well, it's funny cause actually I went out to Rwanda first of all, my granny and

the old Battle Act still going strong.

Grandpa died.

She age 83 says I'm going back out to Rwanda cuz in, in England you're just

gonna stick me in an old age home.

Whereas in, uh, in Rwanda, I'm a wise old dame.

So she went out.

Fantastic.

It was a widow to work with widows, 15,000 widows in her Diocese.

She did an amazing life work.

So I got the chance to go.

Funny enough, when I, when I, I got that phone call from God, if you like, I, I

rang her up and said, granny in Central Africa, dodgy line, granny, I feel like

God's calling me to come out and join you.

Could you, could you teach me the language?

And she was like, oh, I'm so excited.

If I could, I'd be dancing on the table.

And, uh, so I flew out and Rwanda and Burundi was like that.

Rwanda and Burundi until 1962.

So she taught me.

I now speak Kirundi,

So that's what it sounds like.

And, uh, so for four months, so what happened was that a week I had the

farewell party, uh, I celebrated with my mates after that crazy phone call.

And so I said goodbye and then, Just for a few days before getting on the flight

to go out to doing, leaving everything.

Uh, that bloke had recruited me as a preacher, evangelist, youth

worker type for Central Africa.

He rang up and said Simon, sorry.

They didn't want, uh, they didn't, they didn't.

I, we misunderstood.

They wanted a secretary for the bishop, not your role.

And I'm like, what?

No God, what's happening?

You know, that's not what I bought into, but it was too late cause I'd

had the farewell party, so I had to go.

So I went.

And for those four months, this is 1998.

I dunno what you're doing, 1998, but it was those four months,

um, September to December.

And for those four months, I'm praying, God, please, when I get

down to Burundi, please, I don't wanna be secretary for the bishop.

I wanna work with the youth of the nation nationwide,

across denominations, churches.

That was my vision.

Youth being the present and the future of the nation.

Yeah.

So I'm praying that.

This is 1998.

That's the first time I ever got an email, you know, email.

I got through the whole university without ever touching a computer.

Is amazing to think, isn't it?

Um, and so I emailed about 50 buddies in England, said, please pray that

I can work for Scripture Union.

That's how I got converted.

I came to Jesus.

So that's the ministry I wanted to join.

I don't want to be Secretary with Bishop.

Please pray with me on that one.

So that's them praying in England, me praying in Rwanda.

Mm-hmm.

and down in Burundi at Scripture Union.

They were praying, God please send him to us.

This white guy.

So you got those prayers going on track with me.

Because it is an amazing answer to Prayer.

Uh, so Prayer is going from three different countries for several months.

On the second last night in Rwanda, granny prayed for me, said, God,

I've, we've had enough assignment.

Now he's surrendered you.

You just make it clear what you want to do with his life.

So I said, see you, granny.

I left the north of Rwanda, Byumba.

I came down to Kigali, the capital city just to go to meet and greet

my boss who flowed down from London.

And in one guest house, just as the head of Scripture Union, Burundi

stopped off on a three day drive to four countries further away.

And it was essentially three men from three different countries in transit

to two different countries praying the same agenda, meeting in one guest house,

in the capital city for 10 minutes.

So again, was that a coincidence?

Guys, guys, seriously.

I mean, either I'm lying to you and I could be, I could be lying about the

phone call, but what I wanna challenge people each time I share those stories

is, you know, either it's a lie or it's a coincidence, or it's a, it's

not a coincidence, it's a God incident.

And I love that script in the Old Testament.

It's second Chronicle 16, verse nine, which says, the eyes of the

Lord range throughout the earth, longing to strengthen those whose

hearts are fully committed to him.

So even as you're listening, even as you're watching right now, uh, you

know, it is like the eyes of the Lord.

His desire is to strengthen you.

So he's like, who's up for?

Who's up for it?

And back in 1998, he was like, ah, Simon Gillebaud, and he's got his issue, but

I'm gonna use him to change the world.

The eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen those

whose hearts fully committed to imh, and that could be you.

That could be you.

As you listen to us right now, you can say, boom, I'm in.

I'm nothing messing around or settling for a domesticated Jesus.

No, I'm all in.

Fantastic.

And so you, and so here you were in this, in this pinnacle of an event.

Uh, and I love the way you, you talk about three guys traveling to all different

locations together in 10 minutes.

And so I, I take it you didn't become the bishop's secretary.

No, I didn't.

The next day we drove down the most dangerous road in the world, one in

which I, you know, repeatedly went, and the following years, they were

the most dangerous roads in the world.

One time, 40 people got killed and I got through, but that first day I came down.

The RN one, it's called.

And I arrived in Bujumbura, I was like, Lord, breed on.

I've had just about all my money stolen, uh, first day mugged by street kids.

And uh, it's like either you are real and you.

And one of my favorite promises in scripture is one Thessalonians

5:24, the one who called you, is faithful and he will do it.

But that first day it was like my, my boss who had to go and

sit and discuss with the bishop.

And I'm just wandering around praying and.

Uh, and I find an internet cafe and I sent out my first email of what's probably

190,000 emails over those 24 years.

And the first email I ever sent in Burundi was, guys had

this crazy meeting yesterday.

Keep praying, think God's gonna do it.

And I need a computer.

And I sent that message saying I need a computer.

And that morning a mate of mine in London woke up and prayed,

God, I've got this computer.

Who do you want me to give it to?

And he switched on his computer, ah, and got this message from Central Africa.

So again, God gives where he finds empty hands.

And our challenge often is our hands are stuffed full and we

consume with materialism in a materialistic society, and we want

maybe a bit of God, but he says no.

get rid of stuff, and you have come to me empty handed and dependent.

In that place you can really meet with me.

And you can guys, lots of people who follow Jesus, you know, can manipulate,

uh, a religion for their own purposes.

And sometimes we can take promises out out the Bible to sort try to

justify what we've already decided.

I'm not saying do that, but they're loads of promises to claim.

And one of them, if you, for example, if you're going through a difficult

financial time right now as I was, I was absolutely at the creek without a paddle.

If God wasn't real in that situation, I had a few hundred quit left in the world.

My God.

This is Philippines four verse 19.

My God will meet all your wants.

No, not all your wants.

All your needs, according to his glorious riches in Christ, he owns

the cattle on a thousand hills.

The Bible says so if you trust him uh, he promises to provide.

He says, I'll never leave you, I'll never forsake you.

And, uh, you know, in the most extreme environment on the planet.

Hmm.

I lived that out and I've experienced it.

I've tasted and seen that the Lord is good.

It's worth everything.

Oh, that's fantastic.

That's fantastic.

So here you are then.

Uh, broke in a new country, uh, trusting in God and.

you were there did you say seven years.

So what happened during the time you were there?

What sort of things did you get involved with?

Yeah.

No, I was there 20 years, um, but I was there seven years of war.

Alright, so war came to an angel.

13 years I call the back seven years of it.

Yeah, I mean it was amazing cuz one of the things you gotta

do is you start where you are.

With what you've got, how you can, so I, I started by, I had nothing.

So I went up the hill and I borrowed a, a American chaps, a bicycle, and

I'm the only white guy in the country.

Sweaty minger on the equator sort of cycling to work.

It's so hot.

But, you know, and then after a few months someone sent through some

money, bought a motorbike, and then, you know, things had gone from there

To the extent that 25 years later I look back and think, wow, you know,

and I would say in general, in terms of whatever we do, don't overestimate

what you can do in one year, but don't underestimate what you can do in 10.

Mm-hmm.

and I look back on the work now, and it's actually 25 years, not 10, but

we can get caught up in the day-to-day and think we're not achieving much.

We'll get easily discouraged, but I look back and think that we built five

schools, we've built two orphanages.

We built the, you know, a $6 million conference center.

That's the, if you go on TripAdvisor Hotels for Burundi, we're number one.

It's the King's Conference Center.

It's an income generator.

Provides about 40 people with livelihood.

We've got dozens, maybe not quite a hundred, probably into 150,

maybe prostitutes that we've lifted out of prostitution.

We've got, wow.

People that, uh, we've, the unreached people group that we've introduced to

Jesus, people provided clean water.

Those guys had a life expectancy of 27 before we engage with them.

We're doing microfinance.

We're helping late people start up businesses for as little as seven pounds.

This one girl was gonna go into prostitution for seven quid, enabled her

to buy hair products that differentiated.

Differentiated her from the next person.

She got increased margins.

Now she's bought her own pig and the whole community honors her.

Somebody not choosing the route of prostitution.

I love that.

Seven quid for a changed life.

Yeah.

Um, building, we built a medical clinic, so done agriculture.

I mean, uh, it's so much, but essentially it started just very, very small.

It started coming alongside people.

Uh, it's not the white man's religion.

It's, I mean, We'll have a different Western view on what I'm even

saying, but it's not, it's, you know, it's me just coming alongside

people saying, this is your nation.

We wanna get behind you.

Wanna empower you.

What, what there is from the West is resources, some specific

skill sets, but you've got way more passion, way more gifting.

It's your country, your proverbs, your languages, all that sort of stuff.

I mean, I'm very proud that we did become Burindian.

So, uh, you know, most Burundians are trying to become Canadian or Belgian.

Those are the two places of choice.

A Belgian colony in Canada.

They can speak French, you know, Toronto, Toronto area, Montreal, rather.

Um, but we became Burundian.

So they love it that we identify with them.

We were, you know, when other people fled.

When it kicked off again, actually we had 10 years of peace.

Then 2015 kicked off again.

We said, we are not leaving, we are here.

We choose faith over here with over fear, with burning barricades and shooting.

And I'm now with a wife and three kids.

I went as a single young man, felt completely expendable, expected to die,

didn't die, and then proposed to my wife.

Are you ready to be a young widow?

You know, it's a slightly different journey from people,

but, uh, it has been beautiful.

So, uh, did you meet your wife over in Burundi?

No, I would come back regularly to speak and actually after three years, the first

three years were the most nuts years.

Mm-hmm.

, um, In fact every other sort of NGO type worker, um, people working

with that embassies, they had to leave the country every six weeks.

It was so intense for what's called r and r, rest and recuperation.

I didn't have that luxury.

So I'm sort of, uh, they were nuts days.

You know, I literally, I, we'd be.

Yeah.

Driving on the road and my colleague looks across the glint in his eye

and says, isn't it exciting Simon.

We're immortal until God calls us home.

You know, we were.

Paul wrote in the Bible, Philippians 1 21 for me to live

his Christ and to die is gain.

He said, it's win win if you're all in, it's a win-win.

For me to live.

It's a win.

Christ to die.

It's gain.

He says, actually desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far, but

commences more work for, for me to do.

I'll be around a bit longer.

Mm.

. It was incredibly freeing, but it wasn't sustainable.

And after three years, my guys in England said, look, dude, you're gonna wipe out,

you're gonna, you're gonna burn out.

So come back for a year.

And it was during that year, back in England, I, I studied a, a great

place called All Nations just up the.

and, uh, it was, it was in the summer term that, uh, this, this, uh, foxy lady

sort of came, I was doing a washing up at a community event and she came to

check me out over the washing up and, uh,

The rest is history.

Who knew that would work, right?

Who knew?

Yeah, who knew that would work.

Washing, apparently it does.

Uh, so you, you meet your wife at All Nations, which is a great place.

Uh, some good friends there over the years and.

and, and you proposed to, uh, your wife by saying, do you, you are

gonna be a young widow, right?

How did she take that?

Are you willing to be a young widow?

How did she take that?

Was she like, I'll just come with you.

Was that.

Was actually, it was out in Rwanda, so the country to the north, it was on Lake Kivu.

So it was New Year's Day.

Uh, we'd arrived at it place for a holiday with a bunch of other friends

and uh, I'd soon as we arrived, I'd gone to bed delirious with malaria.

So I just crawled out of bed on New Year's Day and having, having

said to her, you ready to be a young widow, so, That was it.

Well, she just, um, needed to count the cost and, and, and she did.

I needed to see her out there in, in Africa to see if she could handle it.

She had actually worked previously in Nepal, which also had Maoist incursion,

so she'd heard, heard gunfire, she'd experienced that sort of stuff.

Uh, and then so she bought into it fully.

And, you know, preempting, one question you might ask is, what's it look like

to do life or to risk your children?

Cause it's one thing for your wife to buy into it.

Mm-hmm, then your kids come along and they're so precious and vulnerable.

And all I can say on that one is that, you know, we are called

to live by faith and not fear.

Mm-hmm..

And the best thing I can give my children is an authentic demonstration

of a life that's consistent with what we profess to believe.

And I think a lot of people profess but don't live out.

Yeah.

And you can, you can have a faith, but not live by faith and living by faith at

its core means you have to take risks.

You have to step outta your comfort zones.

Cause if you're in your comfort zone, you don't need faith.

You're getting along perfectly fine.

You got all your ducks in a row.

And so that was really tested in 2015 because the war sort of kicked off again.

Or war, certainly civil unrest.

There's burning barricades and there's gunfire.

And I'm like, is this gonna cost me my wife?

Mm-hmm.

Is she gonna get raped, the kids gonna get killed, traumatized?

Uh, but we are not leaving.

And, and amongst the missionary community we would probably be, you know,

considered the senior people in terms of longevity and experience influence.

So I was like, well, we're not leaving.

If we leave, everyone's gonna leave.

But we choose faith over fear.

So what does that look like?

And it looks like staying.

And then what happened was that thousands of people praying for us.

I mean, it was properly dangerous.

Yeah.

Thousands of people praying for us.

And then my son, five year old son, Josiah, swallows

some popcorn into his lungs.

And he was breathing like, oh wow.

And uh, we took him to the only remaining US pediatrician in the country.

A lot of people had already fled and uh, and he said, you need to get

him on the next flight out of here.

He needs emergency bronchoscopy.

So Lizzie took the kids out.

But it wasn't fear, it was actually God's Yeah, to me, God's

orchestration of getting them out of the country, I was able to stay.

Lots of crazy stuff happened in the next few weeks.

Anyway, he went back to England, then thousands of people praying.

On the day of his operation, he coughed and out came this

kernel of popcorn from his lung.

Doctors had told me that's impossible.

That was 10 days later.

Uh, and uh, it was just like, God, thank you Lord for your provision.

And then a few months later, we're going back to Burundi or, you know, or, or not.

And I, I had come and gone and, um, I, I said to my key faith filled

guys, not your average Joe's.

He's like, Fire brands.

I said, shall I bring the family back?

And basically all bar one said, don't you dare bring them back.

It's too dangerous.

Mm-hmm.

And I came back, I flew back to England and said to Lizzie, shall we?

Let's just ask the Lord.

You know, again, faith over fear, what does that look like?

And that we set a week aside to pray and fast.

And the first day, 163 people were killed in the Capital.

It's the worst, darkest hour of one day, but dead bodies on the streets, and that's

the day we're praying for peace to return.

So in the natural, it didn't make sense going back, but it was the last

day of our praying, seeking the Lord.

And both my wife and I had a peace about returning mm-hmm.

. And I just said, Lord, I'm just gonna go for a last walk on Southampton Common.

That's where he was based at the time.

And, uh, Lord, this is the heaviest decision I've ever had

to make as a father, as a husband.

Yeah.

You know, if we go, if we go back and they get killed or raped or

whatever, no one will forgive me.

Yeah.

And I'll have that with, I'll have to live with that for the rest of my life.

So Please, it would just be, it'd be great if you just give a, a sign

to confirm that we got it right.

Give me that peace that.

So that's my Prayer.

I went off for that walk.

I was walking along a path.

Another guy was walking along a path and our path crossed the exact same moment

and we, we walked together and that man had been a, a missionary in Pakistan.

He'd had death threats, he'd had child kidnapping issues, he'd

had everything that I was sort of considering, uh, what going through.

And he spoke faith into me and I'm like, Lord, within a 500 mile radius, you

could not have handpicked one person.

Yeah, that precise life experience to be there at that exact

same moment to speak faith.

And God is good.

And you know what, again, we returned, we returned as a family

against almost everyone's better judgment, but it was the Lord's will.

And it was so important to be there because following Jesus is about

being there in the, in the muck, in the filth, in the mess, in the

fear and incarnating, you know, incarnation just means, you know.

Flesh on Jesus was incarnations.

He was God made flesh and we need to incarnate what we believe and be

there with people in their suffering.

So it was so important we went back and all the more credibility comes, right?

Because hey, yeah, you are here.

You believe it.

Other people are jumped on the plane, scarpered.

Most half, half a million of our countrymen have scarpered.

But by the way, I don't even blame them for Scarpering, but because everyone's

got their own call to make on that level.

But you know, we just marched a beat of a different drum and I'd wished that

fearless faith and, and deep trust in God again on everyone, because then no

matter what, you know, financial issues we're being assaulted with right now,

the sort of doomsday scenarios of climate stuff, it's just also depressing and.

Increasing bills.

It is just like, ah, but actually God is still on his throne.

Yeah.

And we are all gonna get through.

And you've got a call on your life and he wants to use you.

And the nitty gritty to come alongside people and embody hope

and oh there is always hope.

Mm-hmm.

Sorry, preaching at ya.

No, no.

It's all good stuff, Simon.

And, and, uh, I, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, I, I'm, I'm

living the stories and, um, and it all sounds very exciting, but it all

sound, I mean, and there were great times of danger for you, weren't they?

You mentioned, um, people tried to take your life.

Uh, this was not, this was not a straightforward, uh, uh, you

know, I, I've made this decision and everything's now okay.

Kind of thing.

Like you say, there was, you know, the Romans 8 35 effect as it were.

I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm sitting here thinking there's gonna be people

listening to the podcast, right?

Who work a nine to five job in a very safe, suburban life who, who aren't

necessarily called to war torn Burundi.

How does, how does that, that life of faith, that message of faith, real,

genuine faith, not the, you know, the everything's gonna be all right and

name it and claim that new calf kind of faith, but that, how does faith work?

You would've seen this, right?

For somebody living in suburbia nine to five?

Well, I have done the nine to five and on one level I'm back in X.

I'm talking to you from Bath right now in the Southwest.

And, and I, I mean, I'm at my desk in my bedroom and I work from home.

I run charity from here, involved in Africa.

I do travel a lot to, you know, around the world speaking and stuff like that.

But so I, I can relate to the nine to five, and I'm kind of living

that nine to five with travel.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and so what does it look like for me?

Well, you know, for, for me, it, it's just, Taking every

opportunity to to share Jesus.

Um, and by the way, the best tool on that, that I've found is a

thing called Jesus at the Door.

So I totally recommend you look it up.

I mean, it's just got my phone out there.

There's an app there, Jesus at the door, and it takes you to

there and, and I dunno, you see?

Oh, that way?

Yep.

, uh, anyway, it's, it's not, I'll put it on airplane, but

anyway, it's Jesus at the door.

Uh, and, and it's a great way of sharing your faith.

So I'd, I'd recommend that to you.

Um, for me, it's getting out my comfort zones.

It's getting out on my street.

There's 85 houses on my street.

I love them.

I dunno all of them, but I know by name 189 out of 230 of them.

I pray a blessing every day between six and seven, outside all those

houses and just Prayer walking.

I'm like, this is the patch you've given me.

I'm passionate for your people.

So far I've seen.

Been here three and a half years now, seen one person come to faith on the street.

It's like, but I, I, I, I talk of having goggles on.

There's a guy, you know, 400 years ago called Brother Lawrence,

who, who's basically just a.

A kitchen worker who washed pans, but he wrote this book,

which is still being read.

It's the anybody, the Bible, I think I've read three times called

The Practicing the Presence of God.

And he was worshiping as he, as he sort of washed the dishes and everything.

And basically he got to a stage where he was just living in the

constant, uh, presence of Jesus.

And so you wear glasses.

I don't wear literal glasses, but, but it's like having Jesus goggles on.

That's how, if you're nine to five, so you're interacting with your colleagues

and you're just seeing them through Jesus' eyes and that Jesus is love.

Right?

So you are just loving them, even when they're unlovable and you are, you're

praying for people and you are, you are, you're praising God for, I can see,

I can smell, I can touch, I can feel, you know, I had death threats with this

guy, said he's gonna cut out my eyes.

And that wasn't a fun experience when he wrote me that letter and he came to

my house with a grenade to blow me up.

It wasn't a fun experience.

No, but.

But it was one of the best experiences of my life because for

the first time in my life, I said, thank you Lord, that I can see.

Mm-hmm.

And I, I, I think in our entitlement culture, we take such basics for granted.

Mm-hmm.

So the biggest gift Burundi has given me is the gift of gratitude.

So from here on end, you listener, you watch it, you could have, if you got your

Jesus goggles on, they're, then they're, they're their goggles of gratitude.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, grateful people are happy.

And beyond that they're joyous people.

Cause happiness is actually quite external.

Yeah.

And very circumstance dependent.

Whereas joy can be at a deeper level.

So I have just gone through the worst two weeks of the last 20 years

as I'm talking to you right now.

Wow.

But I can still have a joy.

And a joy can defy circumstances.

So if you've got those Jesus goggles on, uh, and this is a long con,

convoluted answer, but you're seeing everything through the lens of Jesus.

And what's the fruit of the spirit?

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

gentleness and self-control.

So you can have that peace that passes understanding.

Which I'm wrestling to have, let's be honest.

Mm-hmm.

I'm wrestling with that right now.

So it's not constant living in this nirvana space of, you

know, I've got no problems.

No, there's a battle going on.

I'm going through the thick of it right now.

Uh, but, but Jesus goggles everything through his lens and

that's, that's a game changer.

So you know, you're doing the mundane time for some of you enjoying

your job and your nine to five.

Some of you aren't.

The reality is that sometimes we're.

If I can say crappy jobs and we do struggle to pay the bills, other times

you're in the sweet spot of passion calling, gifting opportunity, uh, but

it's like it is infused with a greater sense of meaning If you get that.

My precious colleague, I love them, they don't yet know Jesus.

I'm not saying I'm any better than them, but I'm better off.

because I know the Lord, the Savior.

Yeah.

I've got purpose.

I've got meaning.

I've got a mission and I'm gonna get alongside them, not just so that I can

convert them, but because I want them to experience what I've experienced.

And so actually what could be quite a mundane job is infused with a, a

deeper level of meaning and purpose.

And that is my mission field.

And he, God's given me gifts that no one else has got, and I'm

completely different from everyone else, and he's got a purpose for me.

So you feel a deeper sense of motivation again in your day-to-day.

Yeah.

Think that's the encouragement.

Yeah.

I think it is.

I, I love that because you're, you're taking the nine to five and you're

seeing that as your mission field.

Right.

And that, and that and where you are, that's your mission field.

And you can, uh, experience the awesomeness of God

just right where you are.

And you can, you can bring that to other people, which is, which is fantastic.

Um, you said that you are, and obviously I'm not gonna ask you

details, but you, you said that you were going through the most difficult

two weeks of the last 20 years.

So this is again, where the rubber hits a road, where it all becomes real.

So what are, what are some of the things that get you

through those worst two weeks?

How do you, how do you sort of deal with it personally?

You are, you're preaching all these things.

You're telling everybody about, you know, this God, and you're talking about faith

and, and stories of salvation and, and healing and all this sort of great stuff.

Yet every day you wake up and you are sort of, uh, for the last few

weeks you've, you've been in the middle of what you've been in.

How do you, how do you enthuse yourself, you know, that, that word the god within.

How do you, how do you do that, Simon?

Yeah.

Well, it's, uh, straight up confess that it's been a, a challenge to do that.

I've.

Certainly some mornings just not wanting to get outta bed and, oh

no, I've gotta face the realities of, you know, my, my beloved closest

making spectacularly awful choices.

Um, but, well, it's interesting.

My great-aunt who translated the Bible to Kirundi, she once wrote

to me in Birundi before she died, it's very pithy, three liner.

She said, look around and be distressed.

Look within and be depressed.

but look to Jesus and be at rest.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, discipleship is, it's not rocket science, but we

need to do the basic things well.

So look around the world is very depressing.

Distressing right now.

Look within your own heart, with your own fickleness and issues and dysfunctions.

You can be, be, get pretty depressed, but look to Jesus and be at rest.

So it's keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus.

I was looking yesterday.

Um, Isaiah 26, verse three.

You will keep in perfect peace, those whose mind is steadfast

because they trust in you.

Yeah, you'll keep perfect peace.

That's Shalom.

Shalom.

So trust in the Lord forever for the Lord, the Lord himself is the rock eternal.

So if we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus as Hebrews twelve, let's fix our eyes

on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him

endured the cross, scorning shame sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Consider he who endured such opposition from simple man so you

will not grow weary and lose heart.

The reality is that we are gonna grow weary and lose heart if we

don't keep our eyes fixed on Jesus.

When?

When, when Peter stepped out of the boat onto the water, as long

as he had his eyes on Jesus.

Mm.

he carried on and as soon as he took his eyes off, Jesus.

And it's, it's conjecture, isn't it either.

It's because he's like looking around saying, Hey look, I'm the man.

And then so pride fall and sunk, or it was like this massive wave came

and suddenly he lost sight of Jesus.

Cause the big waves, that's my reality.

The big waves coming.

Just trying to still keep, keep my eye on.

But, but if you keep, I, I know that I'm gonna get through this.

I've been through, um, plenty of challenges in Burundi in so

much more, obviously dangerous and freakishly outlandish stuff,

and he's got me through those.

Uh, the one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

So it doesn't make, it can be easy.

Uh, I thought I'd die in an ambush.

That's the most likely way I was gonna die over the years.

And in one of those ambushes, a guy was, had his face shot up, I dunno, happened

anything about the other people killed.

But a bullet went through his face and, but he survived, but

his face completely mangled.

And he was, he was maybe fortunate to get.

Sponsorship through an ngo, non-governmental organization

for multiple reconstructive, uh, plastic surgery operations.

So they, you know, did things over, over, over years to rebuild his face.

Now even at the end of that, you, you still can't really talk.

Mm-hmm.

But he was given a piece of paper and a pen and, and his eyes sparkled.

So you can do a lot communicate through communication through your eyes.

And he wrote, God never promised us an easy journey, just a safe arrival.

and I think a lot of people right now would be going through a really difficult

journey and he didn't say it was gonna be easy in this world you will have trouble,

but take heart, I've overcome the world.

Mm-hmm.

he didn't say it easy a journey, just a safe arrival and you are gonna get there.

You just gotta hang on in there.

Yeah.

You gotta hold on in there.

Keep your eye fixed on Jesus, you will get there.

Nothing can separate you from the love of God.

Mm-hmm.

Height nor depth, anything else?

And I'm sort of trying to quote that so Romans 8 again.

Um, you know, the present future powers and I think nothing can separate us

from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Nah.

Super powerful man.

Super powerful.

So you said that the, the one, the one of the things that you came away from

Burundi with was this gratitude, simple things like, thank you God, I can see, you

know, which you don't think about until someone threatens to remove your eyes.

Um, and you contrast that with.

And I, I, I see it all the time.

This, this entitlement, uh, that we in the west seem to be enjoying.

Uh, I, I say that, you know, facetiously, uh, but the, the sort

of, the entitlement in that we seem to be having in the west right now.

Um, expand on that a little bit, if you don't mind.

How, how does gratitude stop you feeling, uh, or stop you going down

that entitlement path do you think?

Well, listen, we are, we are all wired to look after number one.

That's not something you need to learn.

And, and so we're all self-absorbed, self-consumed, selfish, uh, and, and

so when we don't get what we want, it's an entitlement culture sense, an

affront to my divine right to happiness, content and fulfillment, whatever.

The life skill I, I often talk about, and I wrote a book on, um, Romans chapter

12, verse one and two, where it says, therefore, in view of God's mercy,

offer yourself as a living sacrifice.

So because of what God's done for you and the Greek word there for mercy.

It's plurals mercies.

So, so, so when I'm tempted self-pity as we all are, the life skill is I

go through the mercies of God in my life, I can see, which is amazing.

Now that I thought I, I might be blinded at the very, I'm still alive.

The guy said he's gonna kill me and brought that grenade to blow me up.

Um, I've got 10 of those things in my house that I turn and a

clean life giving water comes out.

I don't have to carry a jerry can on my head five miles each way each day.

The, the, the group that we brought the gospel to, um, 27 was the average

life expectancy before we engaged them, mainly because of unclean water.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I, I got clothes and loads of clothes as I think of, uh,

a girl, one of our orphanages.

She arrived there.

She'd never taken the clothes off her back.

Uh, my 18 year old brother's, my pastor's 18 year old brother died in his arms

for the lack of three pounds for the medicine across the counter, which

I've had that disease umpteen times, immediate dysentry, three pounds per life.

So mm-hmm.

You go home and die, you know, you can look across the, the

counter and the pharmacy.

You haven't got three quids go home and die, three quids for a life that is wrong.

So all these things we take for granted.

And you know, on that level we got health service and we moan

about the national health service.

Mm-hmm.

So next time you're moaning about the national health service, I want

you to picture me standing next to you and punching you in the face.

It's like.

Be grateful.

Be grateful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We got freedom in this nation to share our faith.

350 million Christians in the world live.

Live under oppressive regimes, be it Iran, Yemen.

The list goes on about 40 to 50.

Well, 50 plus countries.

There's decent levels of persecution.

Yeah, there are.

I had a, I had a friend who was uh, working in, in, in China, and he came

back and, and he, we, he'd been back in England four days and, and as, as

we were walking processing what he'd been up to, his name was also Simon.

He said to me, it was almost like a confessional, though.

He didn't need to.

He said, Simon, every day in China, I do something to get myself arrested i.e.

Tell people about Jesus.

He says, I've been back four days and I haven't done anything arrestable.

And you know, his point was that where, where he was on a mission,

he already felt it, you know, he's living with a sense of urgency.

And, uh, then we, he came back here and I was like, give yourself a break.

You just, you know, you just need to rest, but, The point is, have

you watcher, listener, have you done anything arrestable in the last month?

And I mean that in the sense of sharing our faith.

Mm-hmm.

So we've got all these incredible gifts.

Uh, you know, you can read and write, I presume, as one girl.

She stood out in one of our camps.

She was 15.

She, you know, she slept with a priest to get three quid to pay her school

fees and I don't judge her at all.

Cause otherwise she'd be illiterate in first grade.

You know, they just face different temptations and issues out there.

So all those things, all those things that you could take for granted though, they're

gifts and, and that's a game changer to see them as a gift because then you can

be grateful despite your circumstances.

Yeah.

So that this old man, so my friend who saw this old man in refugee camp,

she went over and sat next to him.

She said, what's your story?

And he was just there with an empty bowl praying.

So he told her how he was in his eighties and he'd seen his wife and kids hacked

to death the previous week, and he'd walked six days to get to that refugee

camp and he, his house being burned out, he had lost everything in the world.

And at the end, this horrific story of, well, he turned to her and he said,

I never realized that Jesus was all I needed until Jesus was all I had.

I never realized that Jesus was all I needed until Jesus was all I had.

To me, that's about the most powerful thing I've ever heard.

Yeah.

And I come back from Burundi and I land here and I come about a bunch of people.

We got everything to live with and nothing to live for.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the danger, isn't it?

If you don't yet know Jesus, you might have loads of stuff, but.

You got nothing to live for.

You're, well, hopefully that's why you're watching this right now.

You're seeking purpose.

And Jesus is the answer.

He's saying, come to me.

Open the door of your heart.

I will come in and share your life.

And I'm not, he's not saying it's gonna be easy, it's not a soft sell, but

he'd be with you in your depression or in your loneliness, or in your

financial insecurity, or in your health issues, or in the relational breakdown.

Whatever you, wherever it is, he'll be with you in it.

Cuz I will never leave you.

I'll never forsake you.

I am for you.

I love you.

Let's do this together.

That's, that's the offer.

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

Everything to live with, but nothing to live for.

And that cap that, that actually sums up the west quite well, I

think in a, in a lot of ways.

And, um, man, super powerful stuff.

Right.

So Simon, if you could go back in time and have a conversation with

yourself, uh, in the late nineties, just before you set off, um, what would

be the advice you'd give yourself?

Hmm.

Well, do you know what I, praise God.

You know, I can say that.

Um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I look back and I can just see God's grace in

it because I have made mistakes.

You know, I could have, um, I could have married the wrong girl

because of getting her pregnant.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and thankfully she wasn't pregnant when she did that test.

That would've been a game changer.

There's all sorts of things that could have happened.

I could have expelled her drugs.

I could've, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's points along the line.

Drink driving.

I could have, I could have been completely taken out there.

And by God's grace, that those, those disasters didn't happen.

But what I say to my younger self, I just, I just say who was pretty,

pretty full on already for Jesus, but I say just . Uh, be more, be

be totally sold up, be surrendered.

I mean, I, I, I'd live so that you have no regrets.

Mm-hmm.

, just, just prioritize, you know, there's, there's, there's such, such potential in a

surrendered life and don't get distracted.

So, you know, I got married when I was 30.

I spent a lot of years getting distracted, uh, you know, as a walking

hormone and just like, trust the Lord.

Trust the Lord, he'll provide in his time and in his time he

did, he provided when I was 30.

I remember going on some conferences and just leaving at the end

thinking I wasted that whole thing.

Cause I was just shocking.

You know?

I didn't hear a word what was going on, so I'm just being real with you cuz you know.

Yeah.

The danger is we put people on pedestals and think they're, you

know, I know the fickleness of my own heart, but I'd look back and

say, dude, this is worth everything.

Mm-hmm.

And don't compromise.

Don't settle for yet less than the best.

Be hardcore disciplined.

Uh, you know, like, I mean there's lots of soldier analogies in the

Bible and that's for reasons.

Cause there's a war going on and you know, those aren't popular

these days cuz we, we, we've sort of got, got such a sort of lame,

lightweight, sort of modeling of faith.

Mm-hmm.

but, you know, it's, this is hardcore stuff.

There's, the stakes are really high, so don't get, you know, don't

look to the left or to the Right.

Focus and he's worth everything.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

Um, so, imagine, I, I, this is a question I do like to ask people, right?

Simon?

Imagine, uh, you know, you're, you're, you're sort of more towards the end of

your life where, whenever that is and in whatever circumstance that is, but, um,

you are given, I don't know, the Oscar, some kind of lifetime achievement award

or whatever, and you get stand up at the end of it and you say, you know what?

I just want to say thank you to the following people who have had

a massive impact on me and my life.

I'm kind of curious, who would you thank?

Uh, who, who are the who, who are the people on your list?

uh, well straight up.

It'll be my mom, biggest influence in my life.

Um, small lady, small in stature, huge in influence.

Uh, so godly, so humble, so gracious, so patient.

And you can imagine eating all those in abundance with me wayward teenager.

Um, and so that'd be my mom.

My mom, firstly, biggest influence.

Then, uh, that guy, Robert DeBerry, who, who was the Lord's instrument

coming to me, having heard from God, and that's why I end up here.

um, it'd be my father.

My father came to faith or back to faith in his forties, and then became a, a real

sort of support supporter and been very involved in the work with me very wise.

And, uh, he's growing massively in his faith laterally, which is really exciting.

Um, it'll be Onnesifur in Burundi who I handed the ministry onto and the

most amazing man I've ever met with.

Incredible story.

I haven't got time to tell now.

Uh, there'd be Fred Emmanuel.

So proportion of just these great Burindian now, who's taken over the

ministry now, it's like these, these guys, these are, you know, when you've lived

through heavy stuff, when you thought you were gonna die, you are seriously tight.

And so, Those, those are a few names for you.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

I imagine actually, like you say, you, you do become ta.

There's the brotherhood aspect of it.

Isn't soldiers experience this as well, don't they?

In war on conflict?

That creation of the brotherhood, uh, and it's, um, is quite fascinating.

But I love, one of the things I think people might find surprising, and one

of the things I love about your story is that out of all of this, you talk

about gratitude, uh, and a lot of people look at pain or suffering and

go, well, therefore God's not real.

Um, because, you know, that doesn't make sense.

But what actually what you're telling is this stories not only yours stories, but,

um, but stories from people in Burundi who have nothing, everything has been taken

away yet their faith is so much stronger.

And their gratitude is so much higher.

And I think that's amazing.

Um, and, uh, I, I think that's phenomenal.

So brilliant.

Simon, thank you so much for coming onto the show, man.

How do people, um, reach you?

How do they get hold of you?

How do they find out more about Great Lakes Outreach?

What's the best way to do that?

Well, I can see you put on the screen there, greatlakesoutreach.org.

That's the organization.

If you wanna be in touch with me, Simon@greatlakesoutreach.org.

Or you can see my surname there, simongillebaud.com.

Uh, love you to sign up for that inspired podcast.

They are absolutely brilliant and I can say that cuz I, I just sit there

and let them tell the stories and they're, they're absolutely beautiful.

And, uh, yeah, God bless you guys.

Keep up the great work with your, your stuff, Matt.

Oh, fantastic.

Thank you sir.

And of course, if you would like to get a hold of Simon's devotional book,

you can, I have a copy of it here.

Choose Life 365 Readings for Radical Disciples.

Uh, yours was bigger than mine on screen.

I just, I'm not quite sure how I feel about it.

Uh, but do check it out.

Amazing, uh, amazing, uh, book here.

An amazing devotional.

So, um, if you would like a devotional this, and if you are watching this, uh,

and you need a, a stocking filler or a gift for somebody, Uh, Simon, honestly,

genuinely love the conversation.

It is interesting when you said on the podcast, do check it out

cuz you just get to sit back and listen to people tell great stories.

It's all I do on this.

Uh, and you just, all I have to do is ask a question every now

and again and let people loosen.

It's, uh, it's been an absolute joy, uh, and an absolute privilege man.

Thank you so much, uh, for being with us.

Uh, and, uh, all the best with the, uh, with.

With the ministry and you know, even the stuff that you're faced

into at the moment, I look forward to seeing how God redeems it.

Um, uh, and you know, always intrigued by that phrase.

God restores the years the locusts have eaten.

So, uh, looking forward to hearing that story.

So thanks for being with us, man.

Thanks for having me.

Out.

So there you have it.

A great conversation.

Huge thanks again to Simon for joining me.

So remember to check out Crowd online church at www.crowd.church, even if

you might not see the point of church.

We are an online church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps

us live a more meaningful life.

This life that Simon has been talking about.

We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place

where you can contribute and grow.

And you are welcome at Crowd Church.

Be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your

podcast from, uh, because we've got some great stories lined up and I

don't want you to miss any of them.

And in case no one has told you yet today, you are awesome.

Yes you are.

It's just a burden that you have to bear.

I have to bear it.

Simon has to bear.

We just have to bear that burden.

Now, what's the story is produced by Crowd Online Church.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole,

Estella Robin and Tim Johnson.

Uh, theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and if you would like to read

the transcript or show notes, head on over to the website, www.crowd.church,

where you can also sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of

this good stuff direct to your inbox.

So that's it from me.

That's it from Simon.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Have a fantastic week wherever you are.

I'll be back next time.

Bye for now.