We hear why Cally traded in a six-figure TV exec salary for the comedy circuit after a serendipitous lunch with the late and great Joan Rivers, the people she looks up to in comedy, the most misunderstood thing about comedians, and that time she turned down signing South Park for MTV .. all that plus more on this week's BWB Extra where we get to know comedian, speaker and podcaster Cally Beaton a litter better.

Cally's recommendations:

The Good Psychopath's Guide To Success - Dr Kevin Dutton & Andy Mcnab (book)

Antidote - Oliver Burkeman (book)

Namaste Motherfu*kers (podcast)

BWB is powered by Oury Clark

businesswithoutbullshit.me

Hello and welcome to Bwb Extra where we get to know comedian, speaker and podcaster Callie Beaton.

A little better we hear why Callie traded in a six figure TV exec salary for the comedy circuit after a serendipitous lunch with the late.

And great Joan Rivers.

She tells us who she looks up to in comedy, the most misunderstood thing about comedians.

And that time she turned down signing South Park for mtv.

What was the trigger for you deciding to do comedy?

When I was on the board of these companies, I was on the business side, so I was just generating revenue.

So not on the sexy side, but we would take.

A-listers, we would take onscreen talent to events in Cannes or bank or wherever and run events for industry executives where the talent would be wheeled out in order to get them to invest in the shows.

It's quite a long story short, among the people I worked with.

Then I got to know Joan Rivers very well.

Hmm.

Oh wow.

Wow.

We did quite a few things with her.

The legend.

Yeah, it's the legend and she, I had dinner with her.

Just the two of us.

It was the last time I saw her, and it was two weeks before she unexpectedly died.

She said to me, Callie, the stuff you do at these industry events is, is warm up.

It's like, it's increasingly like standup you're doing and you should give standup a go.

I think you've got the chops for it.

And I said, um, it's too late.

I was 45 when she said it and I said, I'm 45.

I'm a single parent of two kids.

One of them's got special needs.

I've got a job in a boardroom.

It's way too late.

And she just looked at me and said, I'm 81.

You're in the thick of it.

What's holding you back?

And she died two weeks later and two weeks after that I did my first open and mic gig.

Fantastic.

So it was all thanks to a serendipitous conversation with a certain 81 year old to remind you.

It's never too late.

Well, it isn't too late.

And right now, um, just, just on the thing though, because this is probably probably one of the most things I most believe in.

I interviewed Alison McGowan for my podcast.

Last week, and he, at the age of 49, took the piano up again and is now a world class pianist.

Oh wow.

And when he thought it was too late to take the piano up again, um, his p his now piano teacher, um, cited to him an example of a 60 year old who took up piano at 60 and by 80 was playing Greek's piano con concerto.

So I don't feel it.

I'm now 54.

I've still got other reinventions left in me.

This isn't it.

There's loads more to be done.

My dad's still working at 79, nearly 80, so I really, that's probably the most important thing anyone can hear is not to be limited by age.

Who do you really look up to?

Have you got any, I mean, whe whether they're alive or dead, that you're alive.

They're the dawns for me.

Yeah, I guess, um, a lot of it, because I worked for American kind of companies, my, my last sort of 10 years in media were working for Hollywood Studios from here, but, but sitting on boards in the states and shuttling back and forth a lot and I did a lot of work with Comedy Central in the us.

So my influences, I think are quite American still.

So people like Stephen Colbert and Seth Meyers and Jimmy Kimmel, all the kind of late show circuit people like Amy Poller, um, Abby and Alana from Broad City.

So there's a lot of those, a lot of whom came through Upright Citizens Brigade.

So I guess that those people who've got, I mean, yeah, Stephen Colbert, I suppose is the absolute pinnacle of intelligent comedy, but we don't, we don't really have that same culture of late night comedy news thing.

Those monologues, I mean the comedy monologue.

Anyone who is listening or watching and doesn't know Stephen Colbert, so he's the host of The Late Show.

He used to have a show on Comedy Central called The Colbert Report, which was a fictitious character.

He studied with, uh, well studied, you know, was with Upright Citizens Brigade for years.

Incredible improviser.

And if you just watch a couple of his monologues, which are all online, you can watch all of his, all of it.

They, they are an absolute masterclass in 10 minutes of genius every night of the week.

Admittedly, he doesn't write them all, but he helps write them.

And um, in Zoom, when all of comedy went to Zoom and people were worrying about how to do it, I used to think, well, don't look at what you did on stage and adapt it.

Look at these monologues and that's what you're doing.

You're monologuing in a, on a screen.

You, you've gotta blow are your role models.

So, um, so yes, I, I'm quite US influenced in my standup and performance.

It was a very interesting testing, uh, thing as you know, covid for, for lots of industries, particularly entertainment industries and how they managed to survive.

I mean, good on the man who rented out his sheep for Zoom.

That's one of the best ideas.

But, you know, it's comedy is.

When you go to a comedy night and it, it's, you know, get them a bit drunk and it's all, it's that group thing.

And, but it, it was fascinating, uh, them trying to do stuff on Zoom because it was pretty agonizing, but it's odd.

I used to like it.

I know it sounds really weird.

I liked it.

I think it's cuz I'd worked in tele my whole life, so I saw it more as doing something television.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So I wasn't trying to do what we were doing in the real world and then do a bad version of it.

I was thinking, how do you communi, we all know how to communicate through a screen because we were all surviving by watching people communicate to us through the television.

So everybody was watching Netflix or whatever.

So if you are thinking, well, what's powerful via this, this little, you know, rectangular medium, then you've got your answers.

But if you are thinking, how can I replicate a live comedy gig through this screen, that's gonna be impossible.

So I thought it was all about approaching it more like a TV broadcast.

And I loved, I loved it.

That is really good advice cuz.

I, I do a lot of like workshops and things, and doing them on Zoom at the start of lockdown was terrible because, you know, I do, they're, they're fairly weak.

I grant you, but I do have a number of jokes yes.

In my like, sort of performance, and you'd kind of pause and there'd be absolute silence.

Everybody's got their cameras off.

You've no idea whether anybody's listening to you or not, and you feel like you are just pouring something into a black hole.

Whereas if you think of it as a TV show, Or as a TV performance, it's easier to cope with.

It is.

Yeah.

And watch TV shows for inspiration.

I mean, I watched those monologues religiously through lockdown cuz I was running, the way I made money through lockdown was, um, was running tons and tons of like workshops and masterclass.

Yeah.

And becoming a hybrid of old me and new me just to make money and to get myself out there still.

And.

Um, I used to totally draw on inspiration from how those monologues were going.

Obviously the stuff I was running out had more robust content, but in terms of how to do it, I think, and I, it's even just with framing.

I mean, you won't be thinking it now with how I am here, but when you see people on Zoom or whatever and they're just like, you are like literally your washing's behind you, like, why not just have a quick look and go, is it tidy?

Have I brushed my hair?

Am I framed?

Anyone can do that.

It's not hard to make yourself so I do think it's a bit televis, isn't it?

What we now do and, and it's really powerful.

We've all been loving being communicated with via screens.

What is your long-term goal?

It is just to keep agile and keep moving and keep being curious.

So not to get Stu, if I get bored of anything, I don't mean bored, as in I've got some attention span.

I will do grit into things that are difficult, but just to not be afraid to keep walking towards the next thing that's interesting and to get out of my own way.

Yeah, just not limit ourselves by what the world tells us is limiting.

We should decide.

What our story is, and it might involve mess and failure and blood, sweat, and tears.

That's fine.

But we decide and to play Madison Square Avenue or whatever.

What is the top comedy gig in America, I dunno.

Is is, is it the Apollo?

I dunno.

I don't do much Ev Yeah.

That those were those kind of venues.

I mean, doing Apollo was such a massive thing for me on this side.

I feel like I'm still, I'm still like feeling very in the globe.

I got that.

Yeah.

Uh, what do you think's most misunderstood about being a comedian?

That it's effortless.

If we do it well, it looks effortless.

And there's nothing effortless about it.

It takes a lot of effort.

Do you, do you think that the, the top people, that real masters get to a point, you know, the Richard Prizes, that it is actually quite effortless for them or No?

I, it's effortless when you are up there.

I, I already find that if I've done the groundwork, it's quite effortless on stage, but there's a lot of effort that goes, your material doesn't write itself.

There's a lot that goes into getting your mindset right and your material right, that you can just.

Turn up and be present.

Practice, practice, practice.

So I think yeah, practice, practice that, and practice so much that you can let go when you are on stage.

And it takes a lot to be able to just go, right, I'm here now.

I'm gonna forget everything I've prepared and just be live in the room.

It's the great advice.

Uh, my friend Chris, who was Welsh Musician of the Year, once upon, at the time Chris Reese, Christopher Re, but he, I remember I, I rap and, um, I hadn't, I, you know, uh, I hadn't really done a gig in ages.

And then I was so nervous about it.

And then he was just like, oh, the gig's easy, man.

Just practice.

If you do your practice, you get up and the adrenaline will take over, but it's, you know, it's just a question of that.

Totally agree.

I'm happiest when I'm backstage and about to go on.

So by the time I get to the point where I'm about to go on the stage, everything is great and those 20 minutes, or if it's a keynote, an hour on stage is the best 20 minutes or hour of my day.

And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark, straight Talking Financial and legal advice since 1935.

You can find us@ariclark.com.

What's been your biggest fuck up to date?

That's an easy one and not one I'm proud of.

Um, I used to represent TV shows and formats globally.

Um, I used to work for M T V back in the day, like 20 odd years ago, and we used to, um, sell things like beavers and butthead around the world.

Mm-hmm.

So we were the only people making money out of adult animation, as in, not, not, um, only fans, but animation aimed at adults.

And, um, the guys, Matt and Trey from South Park.

Um, Said, you know, do you think you might wanna represent South Park around the world?

And they told us what the show was and I was like, no, that's never gonna work.

Whoa.

And then I spent the next, and spent the next two years trying to get it back, which we did.

But yeah, I should say I didn't turn down commissioning South Park.

It was who would represent it around the world.

So it was a, it is a bizarre show.

My wife wanted to watch it cuz they did the Meghan, uh, piss take saying Worldwide Privacy tour, which is allowed.

She'd never see South Park before.

She's on Trinidad.

She just, who watched it for 10 minutes.

She just go, what is this program?

And I was like, yeah, it's a bit of a, of came love it.

A thought on the census initially, you know.

Well it is.

I love it.

And it's paid for the house I'm sitting in, so it's, it was a mistake I made that I then unmade that then paid off a house.

So there you go.

What's your passion outside of work?

This is probably very, in keeping with my life phase is anything kind of green nature, sea.

Um, I go to Komala a lot.

I love walking my dog.

I run.

So anything, anything where I'm literally outside just away from everything in nature.

I've away from Camden stage where away from.

Yeah.

Although it's funny living in Camden, we've got a lot of green around, so Yeah.

Well London does one, one of the greenest cities in the world.

Yeah, so I love gr and you're never actually that far from, there's a poem called The Trees on the Holloway Road, which, um, you might not think there are any, but there's a poem about it and there are many.

What, what's the worst piece of advice you've ever been given?

I think it was, I.

Probably don't do English.

I was told at school, um, my English teacher hated me cause I was quite sort of naughty and I was out smoking and drinking and doing things I shouldn't do.

And she just said, you shouldn't do English at, um, at, in those days O level, she said, you shouldn't be, say, you know, G C S E level, you shouldn't be doing English.

Um, you're not, you are no good at English.

And she was mistaking the fact that she, she didn't like, Me as a person and she found me challenging as a person for the fact that I and I went on to do an English degree, got double first, make my lang my living out of words.

So being told you're not good enough to do English by a teacher who just didn't like me and didn't like my rebell was the worst advice I was given.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

It was given to me by Dr.

Kevin Dutton, who's um, he's written a book that I would recommend to everybody called The Good Psychopaths Guide to Success.

He co-wrote it with Andy McNabb and it's brilliant book, but he gave me advice on my podcast and he said, when they've done all this analysis about success and what is success, the most common denominator across everybody who exhibits ex exceptional success.

Is not just that they know how to do things well, but that they do things when they really don't feel like doing them.

And you know somebody who's capable of doing the things Discipl, who really don't feel like doing.

Yeah.

And when I thought back to the things that I've done that have possibly been the things that would look to anyone like they were more exceptional achievements, they fall into that category, whether it's running a marathon, doing standup, gritting into boardrooms when it's when you're in the minority.

So yeah, just doing what needs to be done, even when you don't feel like doing it.

It's so true.

It's so true.

And it, it, it, it, it's like the other one.

Um, if you're not getting enough done, get up earlier.

I mean, no one wants to get up, but it's like I'm not very good at that one, to be fair.

Yeah.

But you are getting a lot done.

But there's a lot of people who are like, I just don't never get, and, and then you talk to them and like, well, I get up at about 10 and by 12, I mean, it's like the fucking dayss over man.

You know?

It's like, I know you gotta get on with it.

I was on a panel earlier this week and they, the quickfire question at the beginning among others was, What time does everyone get up?

And everybody on the panel was getting up at four 30 or 5:00 AM apart from me.

I go to bed about four 30 or five and then this research person stood up leading research psychologist saying, um, one of the things that's indicated that people won't do well, the later people get up and go to bed.

Yes.

The least likely they are to make a success of I'm very just gone.

There's truth to that.

But you do get the night owls Churchill.

I mean either I'm a night owl and that's the way it is.

Churchill's spent a large amount of time in bed though.

You know that right?

That's what I, meaning he's the example he used to sleep in.

He'd have a nap, but he'd work late.

All of that.

I'd like to think I'm like Churchill then.

Yeah.

What advice would you give your younger self?

I think that's a really easy one.

That's kind of the imposter syndrome thing.

Nobody knows what they're doing.

Everybody thinks they're gonna be found out.

Mm-hmm.

Stop comparing your insides with other people's outsides, and it's not about pretending you think you are amazing or denying that.

You are, you feel like an imposter, but with that knowledge you can lean into that all you want and just keep walking forward with it.

You don't need to pretend it's not there, but just still do it.

Still do the thing.

Um, so I think that advice and the other thing is, um, and again, this came, I sounds like I'm shamelessly plugging the podcast, but every week we get life advice from people and it is quite mind blowing.

Often.

I can't remember who gave this life advice, but it was um, might have been Deborah Meen.

It was.

Don't give up, and the point at which you most think you should give up.

Is often just before your success is about to come.

So when you dark is before the door, you're I just cannot do this.

Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

So I'm gonna give this up like with, and just to give an example, and I, this is not made up cuz it retrofits nicely.

I really was at the point of thinking, I'm gonna give up standup.

Last year I thought I've been going seven years.

I'm hoofing around, I'm getting really good work on tele radio, um, keynote speaking, but I'm not breaking through on the circuit as a standup, I'm not getting enough work as a, why am I doing it?

And then I got a polo literally the week.

I was like, I'm gonna give up.

And then obviously I was like, well, I'll, I'll give up after Apollo.

And of course I haven't.

It's always like when you lose something and you look and you look and you look and then you think, right, that's fucking it.

I'm buying a new one.

And literally it's, you know, it's like, yeah.

It appears, I mean, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's good advice and I like this comment about don't compare your insides with someone outside.

I mean, it sort of makes no sense, but it also makes.

Perfect sense.

Do you know what I mean?

Well that's what we're doing is imposters.

Yeah.

We're looking, we're standing there feeling like shit.

Knowing that I've just sat around with my partner, I've been crying all night.

I've got this health thing going on.

And then we watch someone else on stage and go look at you and you're nice at your hair.

Brushed or slick?

Well, I can stand on stage.

Yeah.

Looking slick and perfect.

Yeah.

And I can been up crying all night and uh, what do I know?

So all I do know is everyone's got a story that is not as neat as the story they might be conveying in life.

So obviously you do a wonderful podcast, uh, with a swear word in the name.

So we're huge supporters of Namaste motherfucker.

But is there anything else that you really would recommend people to read, watch, or listen to?

Yeah, so obviously my one is, uh, good and lots of the people I've been quoting actually come are all my podcast.

So I have everything from celebrities and comedians through to, like, I had Ann Seth's, one of the world's leading neuroscientists I had.

Kev Dutton, Deborah Mein Say, yes, mine is brilliant.

But the books I would recommend, one of them is Kevin Dutton's, the Good Psychopath Guide to Success.

That's amazing.

Uh, looking at what the characteristics are of psychopaths, but the ones who aren't murderers.

So Andy McNabb is a, is the highest.

Scoring psychopath Kevin Dutton had ever tested.

Really?

And then you get through the prism of, yeah.

Through the prism of Andy McNabb's experience and Kevin Dutton's research, you start to work out what a, yeah, because, because being a psychopath and Olympic sport, right?

I mean, I score highly as a psychopath in like five out of the nine disciplines.

But the other four, I don't score at all, which is why I'm not a psychopath and why I didn't become chairman of Viacom, why I left when I was a senior vice president, because I, I didn't have the.

What it takes to get to the very, very top in that psychopathic range.

Anyway, so that's a whole other psychopathic conversation.

If you've read the psychopath test, John Ronson, where John halfway through it says, if you are now thinking, oh my God, I'm a psychopath, you are not one.

Yes, exactly that.

It's like if you ask, if I'm ask you keep asking yourself, am I a narcissist?

I said to my therapist, I keep thinking, am I a narcissist?

And she went, well, the fact you're asking the question is a very good sign because an narcissist don't tend to.

I'll be asking that question.

Um, although it has got I in it.

The other book I would recommend is Oliver Berkman who wrote, um, he wrote This column Will Change Your Life in The Guardian for over 10 years.

Oh yeah.

And he's a brilliant, brilliant, right?

If you google Oliver Berkman on any topic from, you know, productivity to imposter syndrome, he's written a column on it, but his first book, his most recent book's called 4,000 Weeks, which are the number of weeks we have in our lives.

So, um, how to be, yeah, so that's, that's, that's brilliant.

But the, his first book is called The Antidote Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking, and it's a Melting pot of all the stuff he wrote about and researched in his columns.

And it's looking at everything from how stoicism might be an approach that we could use in life.

So it's, It's self-help for people who hate self-help and it's rigorously debated.

It's academic, but it's totally portable advice.

And he was actually my first ever podcast guest on, on Namaste motherfuckers.

And I, I'm gonna get him back.

He's the only guest I want back a second time.

So far not.

Cause the rest aren't brilliant, but his research and writing is ever evolving.

So anything by Oliver Berkman is brilliant as like, and of course, Brene Brown.

Anyone who isn't familiar with Brene Brown, start with her Ted Talk on vulnerability.

18 minutes of your life you will not regret.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday.