The central theme of our discourse with Dr. Tanya Manning-Yarde, veteran educator and host of the podcast, Who Needs Shoes, illuminates a critical yet often overlooked aspect of education: the emotional landscape of the school experience. We delve into the profound impact that feelings of embarrassment and shame can have on students’ willingness to engage and learn, revealing that these emotions frequently overshadow the instructional methods employed in educational settings. Dr. Manning-Yarde articulates how students and parents alike learn to hide their vulnerabilities, often exacerbated by systemic structures that inadvertently perpetuate silence and judgment. As we navigate this conversation, we confront the necessity of fostering an environment where individuals feel safe to be their authentic selves, thereby enabling genuine learning and partnership. Join us as we explore these essential narratives that challenge us to reconsider the very foundation of human-centered education.

Additional Notes

An exploration of the often unspoken emotional landscape that students navigate within educational environments constitutes the crux of this enlightening dialogue. The conversation, enriched by the insights of Dr. Tanya Manning Yard, reveals that the prevalent discourse on educational efficacy frequently neglects a critical dimension: the emotional experiences of students, particularly feelings of embarrassment and shame. These sentiments, while seemingly trivial, exert a profound influence on student engagement, risk-taking, and ultimately, learning outcomes. I, alongside my co-hosts, delve into the intricate dynamics of how these emotions manifest in the classroom and how they can inhibit both student learning and parental involvement. Dr. Manning Yard articulates the notion that students often learn to conceal their vulnerabilities in a bid to navigate the school system, fostering a culture of silence that can be detrimental to their educational journey. This episode invites listeners to consider the implications of creating educational spaces that not only prioritize academic achievement but also nurture the emotional well-being of students. We emphasize the necessity for educators and parents alike to cultivate an environment where students feel secure to express themselves authentically, thereby enhancing their capacity to engage fully in the learning process. The episode culminates in a poignant reminder that the essence of educational reform lies in recognizing and addressing the emotional realities of those within the system, urging a shift towards more human-centered practices in schools.

Takeaways:

1. In this episode, we explore the often unspoken emotional experiences students endure while attending school.
2. Dr. Tanya Manning-Yarde highlights the detrimental effects of embarrassment and shame on student learning.
3. The conversation emphasizes the importance of fostering a supportive environment for both students and parents.
4. We discuss how teachers can create inclusive classrooms that celebrate the diverse backgrounds of their students.
5. The episode reveals how the judgments placed on students by educators can significantly impact their academic journey.
6. Ultimately, we must prioritize human connections within educational systems to ensure every student feels valued.

To learn more about the amazing work of Dr. Tanya Manning-Yarde, check out these links:

www.youtube.com/@whoneedssshoes

whoneedsshoes.com

Follow Students Matter, LLC on Instagram or LinkedIn — or find any of us there: Kathy Mohney, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Monroe, and Dr. Grant Chandler.

Students Matter

LearnHarbor

Until Next Time Remember: See every student. Keep your doors open and your hearts even wider.

We talk a lot about learning in schools, but we don't talk enough about what school feels like.

What if one of the most powerful forces shaping student behavior isn't instruction?

It's embarrassment or shame?

In this episode, Dr. Tanya Manning Yard joins us to name what's usually left unsaid.

How students learn to hide.

How parents learn to stay quiet, and how systems without meaning to can make both worse.

Because if students are trying not to look dumb, they're not learning.

And if parents feel judged, they're not partnering.

A new episode of the Wheelhouse begins right now.

Welcome to another episode of the Wheelhouse.

In this season, we're exploring what it means to build future ready schools rooted in humanity and built through coherent human systems.

Over the last two episodes, we listened.

Students told us what it feels like to be unheard.

A principal showed us what it looks like to lead inside that reality.

Today, we go a layer deeper because there's something we don't name in education, even though it's embarrassment, shame.

Not as big dramatic moments, but as quiet, daily experiences that shape whether students take risks or shut down, whether parents lean in or step back.

Joining us is Dr. Tanya Manning Yard, educator, consultant, literacy expert, podcaster, and a mother navigating the system in real time.

This conversation is honest.

At times, it's uncomfortable, but it's necessary because you can't build human centered schools if the people inside them don't feel safe being human.

Let's get into it.

Good morning.

I'm Dr. Grant Chandler, and this is another episode of the Wheelhouse.

And again, I'm super excited.

So first, let me welcome the Wheelhouse team of Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa, and Dr. Alicia Monroe.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Oh, my goodness.

Grant, you were like this radio voice when you.

I know.

I'm trying to be with Michael today.

Like, I know he's out there just doing all this stuff.

I know he's on podcasts and you, like.

I pull up my LinkedIn and there he is talking in his little radio.

Voice on Facebook like, he's everywhere.

He's everywhere.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's my goal just to be everywhere.

Beautiful.

You're doing a great job everywhere includes being here in the wheelhouse.

Mr. Piper, I love you.

Absolutely.

So it's absolutely great to have you all back.

This is episode six already.

Season 12 is flying by.

We've had some amazing conversations.

I want to just go back for a moment because the four of us spent a couple of episodes talking about the theme of the season, innovation rooted in humanity.

Built through coherent human systems.

This whole idea of future ready schools we were able to talk to.

We're going to talk to a lot of people that are connected to education, but we talked to some students a couple episodes ago.

We're gonna talk to some more as the season continues.

And they, of course, told us we really need to be heard, not hurted.

And then we had an incredible conversation with a middle school principal, Rhonda Simli, who leads that effort to make sure that her students are heard and not herded.

And today we're gonna talk to another amazing educator.

I introduced her and talked about her in the introduction.

She is an educator, a consultant, a fellow podcaster.

She's a mom.

She's got every role that you can think of.

This woman embodies.

So we are super excited to welcome Dr. Tanya Banning Yard to the Wheelhouse.

Tanya, welcome.

Oh, my gosh.

Good morning.

It's so good to be here.

Thank you for that.

Thank you.

We are thrilled to have you here and you're going to offer so many different perspectives than what we've had so far in the wheelhouse in season 12.

And I'm really excited to hear where this conversation is going to go.

But if the theme is, of course, innovation rooted in humanity, built through coherent human systems, talk to us first for a moment about who are you as a human?

I have been, as I think all of us have been, evolving over time.

How do I live my best life in advocacy of my children, of my husband, my family, larger communities.

And so I'm trying to live this human life not stifled by fear or affliction, while also trying to be compassionate and also trying to make sure that in terms of, like, my own footprints in this day, how am I also trying to blaze a path for those that are following behind me?

Wow.

We could talk about that for days and days and we could even launch a new podcast to talk about that because that's pretty.

I mean, there's so much there, right?

I want to be your friend.

Can we be friends?

Oh, Kathy, absolutely.

Blessings and gratitude for that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So, because this is an education podcast, right?

What experiences as an educator, as an educational consultant, as a podcaster, as a mom, what experiences are shaping how you see schools today?

One of the things that I loved and also feared When I first started my career as a high school English teacher is being in a classroom with these 20 some odd vessels who come with their own quirks and interests and questions and thinking in that limited amount of time that we had, how to live in that space as a community and also at the same time, prepare them for the world to come.

And that's one of the things I've loved about being a teacher.

I've tried my best not to be pedantic in the sense of I'm coming in as all knowing and I'm responsible for making sure you know A, B, C, D and getting you from here to there.

I mean, you have things like the Regents exam and other high stakes things.

But I really wanted the classroom to be a living and breathing space, and I wanted it to be a place and space of conversation.

And that was something that I wanted because I know everybody comes in with their own ways of thinking and doing, and I wanted the classroom to reflect that.

But it also meant that was something that I needed to grow into as well.

So.

So that meant each day with varieties of types of literature, experiments with different types of activities and tasks, and different approaches to be open and vulnerable to those conversations that I was trying to get my students to have, while also evolving as a person who needed to learn how to actually foster and facilitate those conversations.

So as a teacher, that was like my first, my first love, my first set of goals.

As I evolved as an educator and started then working on a college level and working with as a teacher of teacher candidates, both inside the classroom and as a field supervisor, I felt like I had to teach my students how to keep the classrooms that they were about to inherit hopeful and not suffocate themselves or their students in their teaching experiences, and then also guide them as if to say, hey, here's some of the things you're going to need to know and understand about the world of teaching in terms of, like, administration, politics, where you may fall before tenure compared to after.

How to build school climates that are evolving and open and possible and receptive.

Also how to kind of close ranks when you see certain things coming down the pike, to just kind of prepare and trying to make sure that I prepared my students as best as possible for their own classrooms, how to stand in them and embrace them while at the same time, you know, letting them go as the year ends and allowing their students to then go forth.

Being an educational consultant and working in varieties of schools.

So one set of schools I worked in was known as transfer schools.

And these are the schools that have students who are over age undercredited.

We're trying to get them back into a school setting and they've left for a variety of reasons to buy into trying to graduate from school that required a kind of different mindset to kind of like regardless of where you may academically stand, this is a place that we're going to try to support you and forge ahead in your own possibilities.

And also supporting teachers on the instructional side that it's easy to think that these kids are fill in the blank because they've dropped out and now they're coming back in.

But you have to embrace their individual stories and their individual experiences and help usher them in the midst of their insecurities, their frustrations, their pushback, their anger, their some of them are coming from very, very challenging circumstances to try to help actualize their best and most possible good and to teach them to do the same once they leave your classroom.

And that's not easy because in working in these transfer schools in New York City and Newark, New Jersey, there's kind of also embedded given the population of the students already, predeterminations and judgments about who they are, the unlikelihood of their success, et cetera.

So you're trying to teach teachers to not buy into that, but at the same time recognizing that's a reality.

And you're also working in a particular system that is very challenging while also trying to create competency based instruction and portfolio based approaches to assessment with a population who may not show up every day to class in working with other schools in behavioral programs.

So when working as an educational consultant with Ramapo for children, this is reimagining how to create school, how to create classrooms and systems in terms of behavioral approaches that are restorative as compared to punitive.

And that approach required me at least when I took on was it needs to be data driven, but it needs to be handled with empathy.

So I love the way you answered that question and as I digested that I engaged in the thinking around where we are in this season on the podcast and I know we have questions that we're all asking, but if you will, I'd like to ask a question that dovetails off of your eloquent response.

Dr. Manningard.

So how do you humanize the educator student experience, cultivate hope within established systems where some teachers are motivated by self serving benefits, vacation day, summer break, pension, comprehensive health coverage and a check every two weeks to really focus on student centeredness and the fact that each and every student matters and they deserve our best.

And this actually, actually spun off of the fact that you did mention pensions as motivators and things like that.

But that holistic educator heart and spirit within an empathic experience is oftentimes extracted when the tangibles come into the space.

So if you will, could you continue your conversation around that with a response to my question?

I'd greatly appreciate that.

Absolutely.

I'll go back in particular to when I was working as an instructional coach for Diploma plus and then move that forward because it's important to create relationships.

And one of the things that I liked as in being an instructional coach, was that I can create relationships with the teachers they knew from their administration.

I was coming in to support them.

So there was a kind of, you would have to cooperate with me in some respect.

Although there was variations of success with that as well.

But one of the things that I think was very important to establish with each of the teachers I work with is a relationship.

It's a level of rapport because I'm trying to support you where you are.

And we all have kind of like, you know, there's other things we're looking for.

I'm in this job because it's a pension, or I'm in this job because their summer's off, or I'm in this job because I don't have to work weekends.

But you're in this classroom.

You've taken on the responsibility of transforming other people's lives.

And so I'm going to come into this space with you to support you in that and to support your thinking around that, even while there may be other ulterior motives or even while there may be other pressures like by and large, we are here to think about how we can bring these 13, 14, 15.

I'm thinking mainly about high school just in this example, from being in homes that may not be supportive of them in social situations that could be very challenging in personal struggles where there may be variables that are at play that they're really struggling hard against, while also trying to help them understand this kind of approach to learning about this particular text and just kind of thinking kind of out loud.

So in order to get these social beings invested in you as a teacher and in this journey and in this classroom community, you're going to have to center yourself as a support for all of that and not a kind of selfish orientation to round a self selfish orientation around.

I'm in here to get.

Cause if you're in a classroom, that's the, that's the most, erroneous, decision to make is to come into a teaching job or position because you're coming to get something that, like day one, you.

You have to be a person that is willing, that can be blunt, to give way more.

Way more of yourself.

Then you may even already have the capacity to give in that moment and then still be willing the next day to try again and then be willing the next day also to learn more.

So you have a long and very accomplished career as.

And you're still very young, but you have a long and very accomplished career as an educator, and you've done many different roles.

And hearing you speak about what you're doing in classrooms or what you've done in classrooms obviously proves that.

But I want to add a layer to the conversation because you're a parent as well.

You are raising children who are two of them.

I met them, and they're lovely, and they're in school.

And so not only are you a seasoned, dedicated, and hardworking educator yourself, but you're also a mom of children who are in school.

So what has surprised you most about navigating schools, not now as an educator, but as a mom?

What has surprised me is that when you meet educators that love your child, and I don't just mean my two sons in particular, but I mean, as any parent that experiences the love of other educators for your child, it is like the most wonderful feeling because you feel like there's a team that is volunteering to be on board with believing as you do that your baby, if you will, is in.

Your baby is in good hands, capable hands, hands that will not drop your child.

And that is.

Oh, I got so many examples.

Oh, so many examples of that.

I gotta pin that one.

And then when you meet people who have already predetermined your child's trajectory, irregardless of your child even saying one word or even showing up, they've already drawn conclusions that are not for the greater good of your child.

And when they make those beliefs and dispositions and that agenda known and they act on it, and frankly, when they act on it with cruelty, it is one of the most heartbreaking things that can happen.

And I'm thinking of, like, one particular experience.

And I can.

I'll unpack that in a moment where after this particular experience, I remember there's only two moments in my life where I have ever cried and have been inconsolable.

And one was with the death of my mother, and the other was with this incident with what this principal had pronounced over my youngest son, Maceo and it was just, phew.

So going to the good example first.

That example is of my eldest son, Keith, when he was in elementary school and he had, he's identified as gifted and talented.

And he had this teacher, Dr. Callahan.

She was incredible.

In fact, not only she was incredible as his gifted and talented teacher, but the school as a whole, from first grade to fifth grade, every single one of his teachers were just very, very great people who one helped Keith navigate the pandemic, but also were very creative, invested, loving, supportive, like, just wow.

But I want to focus particularly on, on Dr. Callahan because she asked a lot of questions and she wanted to know what was Keith's.

And in this particular school district, they also wrote IEPs for the gifted kids.

So she wanted to have input from us about what do we know about our, our son, what does he like to do, what are his strengths, what are his interests?

And she treated Keith and still does because we still have a relationship with her, even with him now approaching high school.

She treated Keith on this upward trajectory like all he could go was up.

And the activities that she gave in class, the assignments, the projects, they were like, they had these moving parts.

And the way she created, like, the opportunities for kids to collaborate and question and their own individual.

It was just, it was like what you would want to see every school doing with every single child.

Like, this is what learning looks like.

When a teacher creates opportunities for parents to give their input on their child's learning, they're bringing in other people to collaborate, they're bringing in these different opportunities.

Like, Keith was learning Scratch, and they had a 3D printer and they were doing different math competitions and they were doing things online, they were doing things in gardens.

And it was just like, like learning was everywhere all the time.

And that's something that to this day, I just really appreciated about, about Dr. Callahan as a teacher.

And interestingly enough, at the time, she was also enrolled in grad school.

So she got her doctorate after Keith left the elementary school.

So her also being a continuous learner was evidential throughout what she was doing in the classroom with the students, which was wonderful.

In fact, the funniest thing was like, when we first met and she asked Keith, Keith had seen the 3D printer in the classroom, and so she had asked him, like, you know, and this is when we moved into the school district and meeting for the first time and getting acclimated.

And so she asked Keith, well, what'd be something you'd like to do to create on the 3D printer?

You know, Trying to prime to see where Keith's mind is.

And Keith was like, I want to build a Millennium Falcon.

And I was like.

I was like, exactly, exactly.

She gave him a wooden one, like the pieces to make and build a wooden one instead.

Because the firmament for the 3D printer would have been much.

But that's just one example of when you're in a place where a teacher believes you can learn and they give you opportunities to do it in different.

In various modalities, year after year is just, wow, that's like when learning goes well.

And I just want to give another brief example too.

If we're now.

Keith is now in private school and that's because unfortunately, of experiences both our students, both of our sons had in a particular middle school, we had to take both of them out of it.

Keith is enrolled in a math class where it's reverse curriculum and it's accelerated math.

So they're in accelerated algebra.

And rather than the teacher come in and teach, there's units of study, but the kids are the one that drive the question course.

It's flipped.

It's flipped.

Exactly.

Dr. And so this actually threw Keith for a while because Keith was very used to, this is what we're going to do.

This is how the pacing, this is the curriculum, this is the sequence.

This is instead predominantly inquiry driven.

And this has been hard for Keith, but I love it for him because he has the capability in terms of the mathematical aspects.

But now he's being empowered to engage in his own inquiry, to investigate what it is he doesn't know, how can he find it out and who does he need to ask for support in order to find these things out?

And then what does he need to do in terms of practice to master it?

So it is just, I love this for him and I love this for him in this setting and in this moment of his life and now being a preteen teenager, rather becoming a teenager.

So that's the good part.

I also wanted to share in regards to Maceo.

One of the things I loved about his experience in elementary school was both from the administration through all of his teachers from kindergarten through fifth grade, from both his autism support teachers as well as general education teachers and the therapeutic staff and the music teacher and art teacher and gym teachers.

There was an integrated approach to supporting him and the other students who were on the spectrum where they really made learning as inclusive as possible.

So even with having their own individual classrooms in each grade level, they were immersed in the other classrooms with the other kids as Much as could be supported, as much as it could be.

I don't want to say tolerated, but, you know, sometimes, like, behaviorally, Maceo may need to be, you know, brought back to his classroom, et cetera, but it was always with the thought that he belongs with the other students.

And that to me was just so empowering, so wonderful to see.

Because ironically, and I'm saying this from having been the IEP meetings where it is heartbreaking that the IEP meetings we've had with his.

With the staff while he was in elementary school have been like celebrations.

Like, what did he accomplish?

What do next?

How can we challenge him?

Like, those were the questions that were constantly on the table about how can we challenge him going forward, rather than just using this document as can we just cya kind of thing.

And one particular, not just one particular teacher, like every one of his teachers, I really love them as human beings as well.

And.

And we keep in contact even after Macio has now left the school and the administrators.

But his music teacher really poured into him and with the support of the administration, also created an opportunity for him to learn how to play the cello, piano, xylophone, and just in small little bites, like 15 minutes a day.

And for the whole school to be able to support this one little child, to just have that joy, to then be able to sit and perform in different concerts, to be on stage and be seen next to his peers performing was just wonderful and empowering and just something that I. I just wish for every child that is neurodiverse.

I just would love for them to be in schools where there's this intentionally concerted effort to support and actualize their best and most possible good.

And I've seen it happen in this particular school that Maceo had attended in elementary school.

But on the flip side, yes, a lot of parents also experience, especially when they have students who have additional needs or additional struggles.

And one could argue that almost every single human has those, but we tend to classify some more than others.

When do parents feel embarrassment or shame when they interact with schools?

I got a list of those experiences too.

So the embarrassment and shame can come when your child behaviorally does not comply with how others expect them to perform and how others may, even with their training, may just perhaps choose that.

Well, that's not my problem.

So examples of that I have are in Maceo's pre K experiences, where to the credit of, in this particular school district, to the board of the board's president, who really was advocating for a preschool for children between ages of 3 and 5 who were diagnosed with autism to create a program where the students could attend and get acclimated and prepared for the actual, you know, the start of school, if you will, like, with all best intentions.

But when the rollout of the actual pre K program started, it was something completely different.

So some of the experiences that we had, which, you know, again, to the part about, like, being embarrassed and hurt and frustrated would be things like, you know, the Every, seemingly almost every day getting the phone call of, can you please pick up your child?

He's mucusy.

Can you please pick up your child?

He took off his shoes over a hundred times today.

I had one experience where this was heartbreaking.

So I was out with Keith, and Keith had just graduated.

This was kindergarten, so I was taking him out to celebrate.

And I get the phone call from Maceo school.

Can you come get your child?

So when I go to get Maceo, I walk down the corridor and I'm walking to what I can hear is just inconsolable screaming.

Now, if you know Maceo, Maceo's temperament, Maceo is not a screaming child.

May steal is a very happy, joyful, hugs and kisses kind of child.

May still is not a screamer.

He's not physically violent.

None of that.

So I'm walking down the hallway and I'm looking at my child on the floor screaming and crying.

I see two teachers standing over him with mask and gloves on and, like, treating him like a biohazard.

And principal standing over watching this.

And I lost what felt in that moment, like, all of my composure and my dignity.

Why are people letting this child roll on the floor like this and watch like a specimen?

These are supposed to be the people trained in special education in, In.

In.

In.

In compassion.

Like, this is my first time having a child with autism.

You've taught multiple children on the spectrum.

I don't understand why this situation is happening, but I knew I needed to walk in there with dignity and I needed to walk with my child out with dignity.

So I went, I got Maceo, picked him up, and I walked out the building and I called Kerwin, because at the time, Kerwin was working in a different state.

And I told him what had happened.

And I said, I'm never bringing my child back to this school again.

Never bringing him back again.

And even though his graduation was just supposed to be a little over a week later, and they were calling and saying, hey, come back, et cetera, it was like, no, no, not, not this, not this, not again.

I've had the other Experiences.

And I'll fast forward to when Maceo started his first year in middle school.

And this was August, and we were already getting calls from his teacher, who at the time was somebody who worked in.

On a county level, was working in an intermediary program with children of special needs.

So this is supposed to be a professional who has worked with this population who is now transferred to the middle school.

And we're getting the phone calls from this individual already and saying, you know, there's concerns.

We don't know if we can take him out on a field trip, even to the point where they got the superintendent of the school district involved, because we kept pushing on of all the kids that need to be out of the school and out of the.

Out of the classroom and out into the field and on field days with their.

With their peers, this is one of them.

And it went all the way up to the principal, to the superintendent.

And we had to get push and was like, no, this child has every right to being outside with the children just like everybody else.

So to fast forward one instance when Maceo was out on this particular field trip, he wandered over to where they had these food trucks, and the food trucks were closed.

And rather than just bringing him back from what we were told, you know, Maceo had a meltdown.

These things happen.

But this then became the justification for letting us know that going forward, Maceo would require two aides to accompany him all day at all times.

And that has never been the case.

As I gave an example of when he was at the elementary school.

That was not anything that even ever came up in the IEP meetings.

It was never required.

He would need two aides ever.

And Maceo went on field trips to the fire station, the library, the mall.

The mall to see Santa during Christmas, going out for apple picking.

And never required.

And never did we hear any type of feedback like that to what we were hearing from just his start at the middle school in August.

So third week in September of that same year, we had the meeting with the principal because the same teacher is coming in and saying, well, Maceo is eloping to the bathroom 28 times in a given day.

Don't even know how that mathematically compose computes, because how was he going to the bathroom 28 times in a day?

What are you.

If you're recording that, what are you doing in the classroom to interrupt that?

Why is even from an ABC approach, what's the antecedent?

What is it that's happening that is making him behaviorally go to the Bathroom.

And then what's the consequence?

What are you trying to shift in that kind of dynamic so it doesn't get too.

The 28th time?

So we never got an answer for that.

But in this meeting, this is when the principal who, you know, basically then looks to us and says very plainly, quote, My 11 years as a principal, your son is the worst, and puts that in the room.

And that is why that is only the second time in my life I have ever cried at a point that I was inconsolable.

And after that is when he then said that basically we would need to find placement for our child somewhere else.

Um, moments like that can be embarrassing and humiliating for a parent because that's an administrator already signaling to staff this is the child to give up on, child to no longer invest in.

And I'm articulating that to you now because I'm setting the tone for how this is how we're going to deal with this child going forward.

Mind you, this was Maceo entering the equivalent of the fifth grade.

This is a 10 year old that you are pronouncing this over as if to suggest this is, you know, terminal.

End of story.

The story has a happy ending because even though we had to take him out of that school and put him now in an approved private school, Maceo is thriving.

We just had his IEP meeting a few weeks ago and in collaboration with our current school district and the private school, the school district is very supportive, agrees with the therapeutic and educational approach that the school is suggesting from aco.

They also are, in terms of the staff, very like competency based, very data driven and very empathetic.

Like we have never had.

We had like, you know, had the.

What's the conversation?

I'm thinking of, you know, different ways to kind of interrupt different aberrant behaviors.

But it has never been a deficit model and it has never been punitive either.

It has always been, well, this is what happened this day, this is how we approached it.

There have maybe since Maceo has been at this school, and this is now going on two and a half years, one or two times in which they've had to implement a restraint on Maceo.

But that was literally at the beginning of when he started.

But I can tell you, and our guessing is because of the trauma that he has experienced at this other school, that once he acclimated to this school, we have never had conversations like that about Maceo.

Again, as a tangent, I think one of the things that has helped in setting the tone for as our lessons Learned is to be in constant conversation with staff.

We've initiated and the school that he's at has sustained that.

We talk with therapists as well as his teachers, bcba, occupational speech teachers as well, in some rotation every single week.

And not as in a kind of cya, for lack of a better term, but to just really have open lines of communications around.

If there's any questions, we have.

If there's any questions, they have celebrations of progress, inquiry about where we can take Maceo next.

And having that type of dynamic in place that we're fostering and they're fostering and together we're sustaining is helping to keep at bay the other things that can then precipitate and make for these other bad situations that we've experienced previously.

So needless to say, I'm alarmed and I constantly sit in a state of alarm because for me, this is a crisis in education.

Last week, Dr. Manningard, we heard from a student who also identifies with neurodiverse classifications.

And she told about the trauma that she, at 35 or 37, still experienced from the third grade teacher that labeled her crippled in front of her entire class.

Now I hear the story of Maceo.

I go into school districts all the time, and I am a researcher in neurodiverse space.

And I hear deficit stories, sob stories, stories of pain, anguish and trauma.

I hear, thank God Maceo has parents and Carrie had parents that advocated for her.

What about those who do not have voice?

Right.

What about those who speak a different language and are new to the westernized educational systems?

This is why we really, in this space, focus on the humanizing approach to education.

What is it to be in community and have us all realize that all, each and every student matters?

And I know.

Right.

And I know that every educator has a.

Has different levels of expertise and we have different levels of training and we have different levels of ability to deal with challenging situations.

But, you know, we need to remember.

We need to remember that in every interaction we have with a child, that that child is someone's baby.

Yeah, right.

That that child, even if that person can't speak and can't participate in what's going on, they are someone's baby.

And we need to remember that.

We need to remember that.

We're going to need to have you come back.

Yes.

Because we need to continue this conversation because there's a lot of places, there's a lot of conversation yet unsaid that we need to talk about.

But.

But we have run to the end of this particular episode.

And thank you so much for joining us here today in the Wheelhouse.

I can't wait for people to hear your story and to hear so many nuggets of wisdom that you bring to us to help us remember through all of these beautiful stories how important it is to humanize the learning space, not just for our students, but for our educators, too.

So thank you so much.

Yes.

Every child is someone's baby.

Every child is someone's baby.

And with that, my friends, we'll see you next week for another episode of the Wheelhouse.

Let's not overcomplicate this.

If students are managing embarrassment, they're not managing learning.

If parents are managing judgment, they're not managing partnership.

And if our systems rely, even quietly, on shame to function, then we have to ask a harder question.

Are we building schools that work or schools that are truly human?

This isn't about perfection.

It's about awareness and the choices we make.

Next.

So here's the move.

Pay attention to the moments that don't show up in your data.

The hesitation, the silence, the withdrawal.

That's where the real story is.

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Wheelhouse.

Until next time, keep your doors open and your heart's even wider.