Accountable Building Performance with Connor Dillon

Episode 63 • 30th November 2022 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries

Connor Dillon:

These people are leaving the cities and they're moving to the country and they're moving into these houses that were built in the 1600s.

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:06

Wow.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:00:07

I don't want to say we don't really see that here, but at least where I'm at in the country, in Texas, we don't see a whole lot of homes that aren't, I don't want say in disrepair after 60, 70 years.

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:33

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Ryan Bell. Ryan, how you doing this great day?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:00:48

I'm doing great, Todd. How are you?

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:50

I'm doing very well also. Thank you. So sometimes we start the show with a, with a joke or two. And I was thinking about one. So I've got a joke I'm going to share that may earn us that coveted explicit rating. I'm not sure, we'll see.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:01:06

Awesome. Somebody else has to earn it, so.

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:12

Well, we will see what happens here. Anyway, so this is a joke, kind of funny. It was told by a classmate of mine in my senior civics class. So this goes back a lot of years. So, Patrick Martin, wherever you are these days, this is a shout out to you and your joke you told in Whedock's class. Anyway, okay. So one morning, bright sunshiny morning and you've got the Mole family and they're all kind of living in their little molehill. And you know, I got Daddy Mole and Mommy Mole and Baby Mole. And so they go out, you know it's a bright, beautiful sunny morning, and they go out to the edge of their molehole and they start to poke their noses out and Mom and Dad Mole are at the front and Baby Mole's trying to push through to get in there to see what's going on outside that great morning also. And Daddy Mole sniffs the air and he says, Oh, I smell sausages. And Mommy Mole, she sniffs and she says, oh, I smell pancakes. That is wonderful. And Baby Mole just can't get to the entrance of the of the molehole and and trying to just get stuff is way up there. And Baby Mole says, oh, all I can smell is molasses. Mole asses, molasses. Okay.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:02:26

I kind of picked up on that. That's where it was going, I had a feeling.

Todd Miller:

: 00:02:32

Okay, sorry about that. That is my only joke. Anyway, welcome again to Construction Disruption. Today our guest is Connor Dillon. Connor is Quality Manager at Building Science Institute and Energy Star Home Certification Organization. Connor works with the residential construction industry, specifically in the energy code and above code programs. His goal is a well-built home for the homeowner, following an admonishment passed down from his grandfather to always build a house that you'd be proud to have your mother live in. I love that. Connor has professional certifications from the John Maxwell Team Building Science Institute and a degree from Texas Lutheran University. Connor, welcome to Construction Disruption. Looking forward to a great conversation today.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:03:23

Howdy, howdy. Thank you. I hope I can provide what you're looking for.

Todd Miller:

: 00:03:28

I have no doubt, I have no doubt. I got complete confidence in you. And once again, I messed up. So I'm going to clue our audience in. Once again, in this episode we have given each other challenge words. So we each have a word that we are challenged to work into the conversation. Your challenge is to figure out, see if you can figure out what our words are for each of us. And then at the end of the show, we will reveal our success or lack thereof of saying our challenge words. So be on the listen for that. So, Connor, tell me, you have a passion for better built homes. Kind of clued us in a little bit with the story about your grandfather, but tell us what that means to you to have homes that are built better. And why is it important to you?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:04:12

That's actually a pretty heavy conversation.

Todd Miller:

: 00:04:15

No doubt, no doubt.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:04:15

You know, for me, what does a better-built home mean? To answer that question, I think there's layers to it. I would lean primarily towards it's a house that can be kept in a family for generations. Thinking about that. Right. Generational wealth, being able to hand down from parents to children to grandchildren to great grandchildren. I know overseas in Europe there are homes, this is going to sound silly, but my wife and I will occasionally put Netflix and will watch, you know, like Moving to the Country. And it's like this UK based show. It's like these people are leaving the cities and they're moving to the country and they're moving into these houses that were built in the 1600s.

Todd Miller:

: 00:04:58

Wow.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:05:00

And you can live in those homes. And I sit there and I go, Wow, how many people over the hundreds, literally hundreds of years have lived in that structure? Have had, you know, safety there. What are the memories that they have there? Right. The fantastic memories of breaking bread with friends, with family. And for me, I don't want to say we don't really see that here, but at least where I'm at in the country, in Texas, we don't see a whole lot of homes that are I don't want to say, in disrepair after 60-70 years. Right. You know, I can drive around the city I live in and I can see homes that have foundation issues that with, I don't want to say, you know, some elbow grease and some money because that's always what it is. Right. But with some work, they can continue to provide that shelter, that space for a family, for another generation or two. So for me, really, that's that's my primary thing when I think about a better built home. Is it something that can be handed down from parents to children to grandchildren and great grandchildren? You know, and that's huge for me. You know, I think back to, I don't know how personal I'm going to get with what I'm about to say, but I think back to how I grew up, which some of my first memories were living in a duplex next to what I'm pretty sure was a drug dealer. And then, you know, the first home that I remember my family living in was actually a Habitat for Humanity house. My dad was a construction manager for Habitat for Humanity, and he was building a new development there. And I want to say it was probably about 25, 30 homes, and we were one of the families that got included. And I know for me, it was a fantastic experience to to live in a house, not a duplex. Now I can go into some other stories about how the development itself was great, but then let's just say a neighbor moved in and he was not the best neighbor and led to quite a few issues. So but I think about having a house, right? And I know that that's an issue that not everyone can can afford. So what is something? But it's one of the best ways for people to build generational wealth, is having a house, having a home. And it provides an extra layer of safety and comfort that I didn't experience when I was an adult living in apartments with my wife. Right. And especially being on the third floor and I remember the last apartment we lived in was actually a single bedroom apartment. We had three cats and all the windows were west facing. And let's just say that the HVAC system was undersized, so which is kind of abnormal in Texas, usually they oversize it. But man, back half of the day and the summer was just ridiculous, particularly hot. So again, for me, I just think about a home as something that can shelter people for generations and we should design and build them to be able to be lived in for generations without significant upkeep. You know, I'm not going to get on that rabbit hole just yet. But yeah, so that's what I think about better-built homes.

Todd Miller:

: 00:08:19

That is very cool, and it's interesting when you talk about, you know, Europe and the very old homes there and things you've seen on on that show. But you're absolutely right. There's an entirely different perspective over there of, you know, what a structure is and how long a structure should last because of of the history and the length of time. And I even find that a little bit here in the States. I mean, you know, I'll go out to California and their ideas of an old structure are quite a bit different than my idea of an old structure even here in the Midwest. So very interesting. So I know that Building Science Institute is an organization and I think a lot of it involves you and your father, Brett, and it's a part of the Dillon Group of companies. Tell us a little bit about your day job, what it is that is it that you do there with Building Science Institute?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:09:13

I used to say my day job, you know, I'd wear different hats on different days and now it's I wear different hats, different hours. So my official title is Quality Manager, but I also work on the operations side of things. So for me, a typical day can look like fielding calls from clients across the country where they ask me technical questions for guidance and different kind of situations, to I could be teaching. I have one-on-one teaching video calls. Don't do in-person so much anymore right now, but you know, that'll change eventually. But it looks like communicating with different authority-having jurisdictions, especially being Building Science Institute was officially launched in May of this year, 2022.

Todd Miller:

: 00:10:01

Okay.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:10:01

So it is literally, I want to say like six or seven months old operationally speaking. So the other part is reaching out to organizations, authority-having jurisdiction, cities, state-level entities and saying, Hey, we exist, right? We've been approved by the EPA as an Energy Star HCO. It's a very stringent process. And so that's been a very key thing for us, right, simply because I think there's a lot of misrepresentation in the industry when it comes to things like governing bodies and things like that. You know, so you have some organizations that are standards management organizations. You have some that are service providers, but then are service providers for specific building programs or maybe their own green building programs. Fantastic, we need those. Especially when you think about different climate zones. I would hate to have a Yankee come down here to Texas and tell me how to build a house just as much as. Now, I don't want to say I'm not good for the Northern states, you know. So for me, there's also a lot of talking with these state agencies, these city departments, and just communicating that there are other organizations that certify inspectors who can perform third-party inspection activities. And they're qualified. And we've been obviously granted some level of authority by the EPA to do that for Energy Star.

Todd Miller:

: 00:11:30

Okay. Very good. So tell me a little bit more about who your typical clients are. I know you've kind of given me a broad picture, broad range there. But tell us a little bit more granular who your typical clients are, what you do for them, and how you help them.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:11:47

Yeah. So a typical client of ours, we usually work with small to medium-sized inspection companies. Most of them are going to have some kind of preexisting certifications. They may be rating companies, they may have BPI certifications. But we also look beyond that to small engineering firms, medium-sized engineering firms, or frankly, companies that do operate across the nation. And so, you know to say a typical, ehh it's kind of you know, we're kind of atypical in that regard, right. But small to medium is probably the sweet spot. We obviously support companies that have national scope for services. And what that looks like is we provide, like I've mentioned already, if you sign a contract with us, your company is getting access to all of our online education materials at no additional cost. They can be used for continuing education for certification. We also provide technical support and guidance for free. We also have other features where we have a call with the business owners every Friday where they can hop on. And I don't want to say, you know, harass us, but allows us to kind of have a consortium where everyone can bring their problems to the table. And they're not just talking to us like, yeah, we're experts, but when you have more people at a table who really just they want to see everyone's business flourish, they want to see the old saying, right. Rising tide lifts all boats. That's what they want. And that's what we try and provide a forum for. We do that regularly with all of our clients. Beyond that, they get access to a software tool that's connected directly to NREL's Energy Plus OSERI calculation engine. So they're getting a Department of Energy calculation engine where they can get the results and know that it's going to be a stable platform. It's not just going to shift and change at the whims of any particular special interest group. But the neat thing about BSI is our quality management system. We base it on ANSI and ISO standards. We're approached to become an Energy Star HCO by our clients at the time. And we said, Well, give us about a month to talk about this. And we said, Do we want to keep doing the same old, same old, that we all have complaints about, that we've struggled with on our side as a facilitators on our client side and scheduling things? Or do we just want to do something different? So we said, well, let's see what's already out there. And we were looking internationally and we found that there's already systems and processes in place, ISO standards and whatnot for quality management that we said, why don't we just use that, right? It's been around for years. You know, we're partners with the American Society for Quality or members of the ASQ, and we say, well, they existed for 80 plus years, so let's just reference their documents, right? Let's reference the standards that they've shepherded. And so we build it from the ground up, not trying to reinvent the wheel, referencing things that are directly applicable to our industry and geared specifically for the inspection companies that are constantly challenged with rising costs, with competitors, who are how do you say? They're racing to the bottom of the price barrel right there, commoditizing the services rather than presenting it as having value beyond what, you know, maybe people are willing to recognize at the moment. And we built it with that. And the HouseRater very naturally was a fantastic partner for us. That's the software tool and it's an integrated platform. So they do all the energy modeling on the same platform where they have access to schedule and collect all their field data. So you can go out in the field with an iPad, have an inspection preloaded, and while you're there, you're taking photos. Maybe you notice differences between what the take off is and what the builder actually built because, you know, they didn't communicate. Oh, yeah, by the way, where they wanted the kitchen option. So you have a bigger kitchen and so there's a bump out feature or something like that. So an inspector can update the model as they're there in the field with photos, their geotagged time stamp, and then once they're done with the inspection, boom, it syncs to the cloud and right away you're able to run results based off the actual as-built house. So it's almost immediate, right? And the platform itself, we have a standing offer to program managers that if you have a house that's in your program and it's connected to that program and HouseRater, you can have access, read access. I have to be specific right now. They can't go and fiddle with things. But yeah, you can have read access to the project, so you can see a project from start to finish and you can have confidence that the house or multifamily unit was actually built and built according to the standards and specifications that the builder promised they would deliver. And that's the other thing. It's a big risk reduction for the builder because you know that, hey, your rater is actually going on site and they're not just sitting there in their truck for 30 minutes filling out reports. You know, it's got all the all the data right there. So that's a, it's a fantastic partnership. I love the guys and gals over there at HouseRater and, yeah, can't talk enough about them. They're great.

Todd Miller:

: 00:17:31

Very neat. So, I mean, that sounds like a great program. So, I mean, is this something that you, I would presume you assume is going to continue to grow? And do you think this will be pretty commonplace in the future?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:17:44

Are you talking about having a platform that's completely integrated?

Todd Miller:

: 00:17:48

Right.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:17:48

I mean, I would hope so, especially as there is more talk about ESG and things like that, because right now the issue that we run into is twofold. On the inspection side, we do still have bad apples, right? There is no perfect system. BSI is not perfect, no one is perfect. Right? We're all human. Unless you're a robot, in which case, you know I'm a little scared. Terminator, might still happen. So we have these issues right now, and there hasn't been a very good, cohesive way of approaching it, having a single integrated platform like we have is, in my opinion, and obviously I'm biased, probably the best way to do it. Because we've got access to these projects from start to finish and all the levels and stages of construction and the builders, their local superintendents. I mean, you know, maybe the purchasing manager, they can have access. So they can see where they're at and there's not any kind of blind spots of, Oh, where are we at with this project? Where are we at with that project? You know, you can see all of that. It gives them confidence so that, I want to say I've been told that a typical builder loan is sold on the market, on the secondary market, about seven days after a home closes or something like that. So you can have confidence that, Hey, you closed it, maybe your project hasn't been confirmed and received your certificates, but you can pop in there and you can see exactly what the holdups are and you can pull the data out and you can send it to whoever bought the loan on the secondary market. And this goes into the ESG reporting as well, because there are national homebuilders who are presenting their ESG reports to different standards bodies and whatnot. And they're coming back and saying, I've seen your report that you said you saved a million trees this year based off of the energy efficient components and this, that and the other of how you built your homes. Where are those trees? They ask questions like that and it's like, well, do we actually have, do we actually have proof from our raters, frankly, that they did the inspections do we don't actually know? And so builders are running into a challenge. And frankly, I think this is it doesn't have to be HouseRater, obviously, but I think a having a platform where everything can be tracked from start to finish that collects all the data and all the modeling, I think that's what's necessary. I don't think is going to be widely adopted because then maybe people will start finding out that the inspection company they've been contracted for with the last five years is not actually doing everything they say they're doing. They could be mis-modeling things. I mean, there's all sorts of things that they might find out that they don't actually want to let out. But that's the other key component about BSI is we're very, very upfront about having as transparent a process as possible. So it shines in our QA system on the back end, we'll do an annual conformity assessment on a rating company. Any of our findings we presented to the client, they can provide feedback at that point and we take their feedback. We don't edit it or anything and we put it into our report and then we publish it publicly, right? So you get to see everything about the company where it stands on the standards that we've contracted to provide overview and oversight on. You know, I make the joke that we don't put people on super secret probation where, you know, maybe they misstated something and now they're in trouble until they fix that date on a file from March, you know, and it's been nearly a year later and you've gotten drunk a lot since then at different conferences. You know, we don't do that. We publish it. It's public, it can be found by anyone. And that's for us. It's really about keeping ourselves honest by keeping the inspection companies honest. And they can be held honest by, you know, their clients, frankly. So, yeah, sorry, I went on a big rant there. I apologize.

Todd Miller:

: 00:22:06

No, that's good stuff. Kind of stepping aside a little bit and looking forward and into the future at energy management and the energy conservation in residential building. What changes, what do you see in the future down the road in terms of enhancements or improvements to that?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:22:26

That's a very big topic.

Todd Miller:

: 00:22:28

Sure.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:22:29

I think we're going to see, I don't know if it's going to be on the regulatory side. I don't know if it's going to be market demand necessarily from homebuyers or renters. I think we're going to see a shift to carbon metrics, be it onsite carbon use based on the energy use on site or embodied carbon. And then there's, you know, different tiers of that. You know, how deep are we going to go? How thinly are we slicing the baloney? Are you doing it so you can read The New York Times through it or, you know, can you not see anything through it at all? You know, I don't know. I think we're going to see a shift to that. I do think we will probably see more multifamily than single family get built. Part of that is the resources to build a single family house that we build now, a standard house that gets built today. I think the amount that goes into that, you hit the economy of scale with multifamily. So whether that means people are just going to be building apartments or they're going to be building condo structures that are low rise. I don't know, I can't really speak to that, but I think we'll see multifamily get bigger and more popular. I don't think single family is going away. I mean, heck, I hope I can. I told someone one time that my dream was to buy this mountain in Tennessee for $3 million and build a cabin on it and just kind of, you know, not have to deal with anyone. So I hope single family stays around. You know, I don't know that we're going to be getting into the big, you know, Judge Dredd-style blocks where, you know, you're hundreds of stories tall and, you know, a million people live in a centralized location like that. But yeah, I would say multifamily is going to grow due to the economy scales I think, or the economy of scale. And then I think we're going to see more conversations about carbon and embodied carbon in the construction process. You know, and we have a bunch of building materials that are getting more popular that have low carbon effect. So stuff like hemp, I'm really intrigued by that because I think there and it's starting in the 2024 ICC, there's a specific hemp product for insulation that's going to be accepted or something like that. You can buy it today, I was actually talking with someone in the hemp industry and they're bringing in hemp insulation. You know, I'd be curious to see hemp tree in action, especially here in Texas. Having something that's thermally massive would be astounding. It would be fantastic. I wish more houses were actually built out of concrete or, you know, less carbon-intensive products just because, man, it's it's fantastic. I've walked into a concrete house. I will say this. In Seguin, Texas, there are actually homes that were built in the 1800s that are concrete homes or limecrete, I should say. The German settlers came and moved into the area. You know, we can talk about the ethics of that later, but they moved into the area and it was pretty sparse. It wasn't like the Black Forest in Germany. And they said, Well, what do we have? They got lime, limestone and boom, they started building houses out of limecrete. So there are houses that are still standing that people live in. There's a museum house too, called the Sevastopol house. I have been corrected on that pronunciation multiple times, so if anyone says I did it wrong, yell at the tour guide who yelled at me for mispronouncing it one time. So it really works for our climate and I think there's a lot of benefits out of it. So that's my $0.02. If my, you know, magic eight ball worked out, I'll be, I'll be glad.

Todd Miller:

: 00:26:19

I will have to visit Seguin, Texas, just to check that out. So I'm kind of curious, where I mean, it sounds like you very much try to stay on the leading edge in terms of your knowledge of building materials and practices. Where are some of the places that you go? Or is it all just Internet research, or where do you get some of the information you get in terms of cutting-edge products or practices?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:26:45

Yeah, well, for me, a lot of it is just the Internet. And when I say Internet, I'm not just, I don't use the big G, I use DuckDuckGo. So I'll keep that stance for now publicly. So I'll use DuckDuckGo as a general search thing. But I built up a network over the years. There are people in green building programs where they're having, I don't want to say some random rich person, but someone who has a lot of money comes to them with an innovative, you know, product that maybe they never seen before. And they're trying to build a home, they get certified. And you can see stuff like, you know, Lead for Homes is a fantastic example. There's a lot of products out there that someone might say, Hey, well, this meets this need over here. Can we use it for this program? And then it kind of gets disseminated among the network and I'll run into things. So, you know, there's interesting framing materials and framing products like the T Stud. I'll go ahead and mention that, fantastic dowel-based wood frame construction, but they're also doing metal studs now, right? So there's interesting things like that where you think about the actual structure, the bones of a house, you can pull in something that you can reduce. The thermal gain he gained over an interval of my my Lord, that's fantastic. But then you look at the installation side of things and, you know, you hear about people who are doing alternative structures being built out in the counties where maybe they don't, maybe they don't have a permitting process. And there's no such thing as real inspector, who, you know, that this county sends out here in Texas. I mean, you could probably go out in the county and build a chicken coop to live in if you really wanted to. I don't suggest that for anyone, by the way, you would probably die in the summer. We don't really have much of a winter. In fact, I you know, I know I'm wearing flannel, but I have shorts on right now just because it was still in the seventies this morning. So, yeah, it's it's mainly through that network where people will bring something up and I'll see it and I'll go, Huh, that's really interesting. How can that apply here? And this goes beyond just actual building materials. It's also products. You know, there's different things out there. The ERV and HRV systems for mechanical ventilation, they're growing in popularity. If I had my way, I would put that in my house. But I have neither the money or approval of the wife to do that. So, you know, there's things like that. But you can also keep an eye out on the ICC Evaluation Services page. That's another place that I recommend for any inspector out there or engineering firm who's doing anything for code compliance, to zero-energy ready, to passive house. Keep your eye on that page because that's where you can have building products that actually get tested and you can find those reports there and reference those. It's fantastic. I don't want to say I love looking at it, but it's a great resource as well to keep an eye out on.

Todd Miller:

: 00:29:48

No, that's a great idea. I have never done that myself and that's a fantastic idea. Well, you know, very interesting. So, I mean, a lot of our audience members, we think are folks who are fairly fresh or young in their careers in construction and design. And you yourself, you're already achieving greatness and you're destined for more greatness. But you're still pretty young in your career. But I'm kind of curious, is there any advice you'd have for someone out there who is just getting started in a career in this industry?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:30:20

Well. So what I would say to that, and I thought about it just. I actually kind of thought about it in general, in a more broader sense of like, Hey, if I go back to my alma mater, I have a dirty little secret. You mentioned I have a degree from TLU, Texas Lutheran University.

Todd Miller:

: 00:30:36

It has nothing to do with construction, I'm guessing.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:30:39

It has nothing to do with construction. Right, now, I did a lot of construction while I was there, building sets and things like that. I got to weld a bunch of metal frames together and that was very exciting. But yeah, it had nothing to do with residential construction. And so for me, I think the biggest, I would say one of the most important things is if you're just now entering, make sure you're going into an environment where you can actually spend time learning. I basically spend probably the first year to two years in the employment and it almost felt like a continuation of my my college education. But it was, it wasn't a college anymore. It was like a conservatory that was hyper focused on a specific industry. And I spent a whole lot of time learning and a lot of it was I would have a client who contacted me and I would go to my boss and say, Hey, what about this? And, you know, I work for my dad. And for the record, I have a funny story about getting employed. But he would say, Do you want me to tell you or do you want me to show you where you can learn this? I was like, Well, I'd rather go learn, right? So I don't have to go harass him again because sometimes he can be pretty scary. So I would, you know, I'd come to him with a problem and then he would say, So this is what we do when we have a problem like this and we go through and boom, boom, boom. I'd learn how to go look for something, right? Maybe it's looking for manufacturer specifications on a specific product from an AC system that whatever. Right, boom. You know, he showed me how to look for it and I go, I wouldn't have to ask him again because, you know, it's all teach a man to fish and he can, you know, feed himself for his life. So that's the whole idea is I just learn how to learn and I learn how to go search for things. And so I spend that still happens, right? I'll have a problem now that, you know, I don't know where to start. And I'll go ask ask the question and maybe it won't be my boss. Maybe it'll be someone in the network who's got the experience, you know, like and hemp, you know, I'm going to go talk to the guy that runs a hemp farm, right? I'm going to go talk to the people who are in the production of that material. And I'm going to say, Hey, what about this? Right? Can you provide me some resources that I can go learn and read about it? And so having the the ability to really focus in and continue to learn from the get go is fantastic. I literally cannot, you know, underscore that enough because if you just come in and, you know, on my side, specifically talking about inspectors for what I'm about to say. If you just come in and they teach you how to do a blower door test. But you don't know why, right? Why do you do a blower door test? Why do you do a blower door test at 50 Pascals? Why do you do a duct test? What's the difference between a total leakage and a leakage outside test? Why does one matter more than the other? Which one matters more than the other? Why should you never depressurize your ducts? Because that's stupid. And I'm sure I said that. And I'm going to get some people harassing me in the emails or in messages, but I'll fight to the death about it. I've got swords to prove it, so. Learn, right, just keep learning. Don't just, I don't want to say don't just rest on your laurels, but try to be the dumbest person in the room, right? Sounds kind of rough around the edges, but that's. Man, I've learned so much by just walking into a room and being, Yeah, I'm pretty ignorant about what's going on. Let's talk, let me learn. You know, it's fantastic. So, yeah, that's my advice.

Todd Miller:

: 00:34:25

And really, that's, that's every episode of Construction Disruption is us trying to learn about something that we really don't know much about. So that is great advice. I mean, I think a lot of people enter a career thinking, Oh, I'm going to enter and I'm going to show my stuff. And then instead, you know, enter someplace where you can learn and where there's that potential to grow. And that is fantastic. So I can't not ask about the funny story about getting employed.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:34:53

So it's a, it's a two parter. So the first thing is so, so December 2014, okay, I'm halfway through my senior year and I had no plan getting out. I had a fiancee, now wife. We were talking, we're like, What are we going to do? I could go try and work for a production company, submit reels or you know, I could go and get a graduate degree and then, you know, I don't know, right. So my dad calls me, he says, Hey, you know, come meet me in the office. I go over to the office and we're talking. And he goes, Look, there's a job here for you if you're willing to put in the work. There's a job here, okay. And I said, I don't have anything, you know. I didn't say this, but I was like, I don't have any other plans. Might as well do it right? So from that point, I started working part time at the company and I wasn't really doing anything, I don't wanna say important, right? I was showing up in between school and my other day job, and I think I was actually working like five jobs at the time.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:00

Wow.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:36:01

It was quite a plate spinning exercise. And so I graduated in May. In June, I got married and my dad was like, You can take two weeks off. I'll give you a paid vacation because you just got married. I was working part time, I didn't even go full time yet. So I'll give you two weeks off, pay for the two weeks, you know, then you can come back and hit the ground running. I come back. He's like, Alright, here's the deal: for your full time employment you have to get the certification. It's a two-week-long workshop. It's capped off by three tests. You have to take all three tests and pass. You meet the other certification requirements, you get the certification, we're good to go. So I go through the workshop and I'm kind of in there. I don't want to say I got a big head, but I got a big head and I'm kind of like, well, you know, whatever, I know this stuff. Yeah, yeah, here you go, I got this. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I go through the workshop, and part of the thing was, you know, for us, we hold very strongly to the idea of reducing or removing bias, right. So those three exams at the time that I was going through the workshop, they had to be proctored and they still do today, but it's not specifically those three exams. So anyhow, they have to be proctored. And we said, well, to avoid the appearance of bias, I'm going to go to a library, I'm going to proctored by a librarian there. So while everyone else was going through the workshop, they were preparing, they took the tests. I was learning and helping them prepare, and I just kind of put off my own personal stuff. So I go in to the library and I start with the easier tests, always start with the easier tasks before you go to the harder ones. General advice typically is useful. I do the easier tests. Nail them, right? No problem. Knock it out of the ballpark. I got this in the back. Go to the last test, it's the harder of the three and I fail. Now, the reason that was kind of an issue was before I took the test, my dad said, If you don't get the certification, I'm going to cut you a month's worth of pay and you're going to go do something else. So I knew what the stakes were.

Todd Miller:

: 00:38:16

Big stuff.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:38:16

And I was riding high from those two other tests. And I go in and I get the results and I could feel just my stomach was in a pit. It felt like I had ingested a two-ton rock. And, you know, I just got married and I was going to have to go to my wife and say, Hey, I got a month to do something else. You know, let's go from there. Which is always great to do right after you got married and you graduate college and are going to have to start repaying student loans in six months. And so I went back to the office and, you know, my dad's sitting there and he goes, I saw the results and he's like, I'm going to give you another chance. What were the two problems that you had on the test that you were just stumped by? And so I said, I was in tears at that point, being completely honest, you know, because I was expecting him to have a check on the table and just say...

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:10

Yeah, this is it.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:39:10

I love you, but go do something else. And it took me a little bit to collect myself. And I was like, these were the two things, just for whatever reason, that I couldn't figure it out. It wasn't, it just was not connecting in my brain. I worked them out and he hit me with a couple of other questions beyond those. And I was like, okay, here's this source. Let me go to this resource and boom, you know, this is, this is how I would solve it. Alright. And so I walked out and I been brought down to earth. I had had a big head and my balloon got popped. And I had been brought back down to earth, but I had a second chance. So I went in, I took the test again and I didn't ace it, but I passed it. I got an 88 out of 100. And so I passed, and that moment was very much a big testing and learning moment for me. I took it and I've tried to apply that to other people. Now my clients, right, there are situations where they come to me and it could be that I'm proctoring a test, right? And they're really having a challenge with a concept that I know is critical to a test. And I'll just say, hey, look, I know you're freaking out about it. Let's take a moment before you do the test. Let's walk through this, let's talk about this. I want to make sure that you completely understand not just this problem, but the principle behind the problem, so that you can run into a problem that's based on this principle and you can solve it without asking me a single question, because you know the principle, right? And even when we have people who, you know, unfortunately, you know, no one's perfect, they fail the test. I'll take that time like my dad spent with me and I'll say, Hey, look, what were the problems that you had an issue with? Let's talk about this. It's been a huge impact for me. And I hope that our clients and people that I've worked with over the years, I really hope that that they've experienced the kind of grace that my dad provided me because I had no other plan. I literally, it was just had a month to figure things out and my dad was able to give me a second chance. And that's you know, I really can't underscore having that. You know, think about inspectors all the time. They go out in the field and it's like the superintendent wakes up and it's a new day every day. You told him about a problem last week that if you found it again, you're just going to fail him and that was that. And they should have learned their lesson. Oh, hey, you know, maybe that guy was having a hard day, right? Maybe he didn't understand. Maybe it was a new crew that just got hired and they didn't know. Give them the time so that they can learn. So that was that. Now, on the flip side of this, I said there are two funny stories about my employment. The second one is I didn't actually get any business cards for like two or three years. And that changed after I did a speech at the local Chamber of Commerce. And towards the end I was like, I don't actually have any business cards because my boss threatens to fire me every day. So if you have any any questions, you'll have to give me your card. So I drove to the office and literally the 10 minutes between me leaving and getting to the office, someone had called him and was like, Do you threaten to fire your son every day? And so he sat down and he's like, Alright, I've got the printer paper. We're going to print you off some business cards. No more jokes. Okay. So that's the other funny story about being employed that I've got on that front.

Todd Miller:

: 00:42:40

Well, those are great stories. I love that especially. I mean, sometimes life lessons come from unlikely places, especially when grace enters in. Good stuff. Well, this has been really good. It's been a real pleasure. We're close to wrapping up the business end of things here. Is there anything we haven't covered that you'd like to share with our audience?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:43:00

You know. I think back, it's been over ten years since I left high school and went to college and things like that. I think personally I've changed dramatically from the time that I into college, from the time I left college to where I'm at now. And I cringe a lot about it, you know, because there were times where like in college, even I was stupid. I had a friend in college that he was the only other person who really like me got his hands dirty, building sets and things like that. And he had other people in college that would help us out, but it was primarily us being the two movers and shakers. I think about times where we were in the back in the shop, and he would literally dress in a banana suit and he would build sets, right? And we would just have these these funny moments where we had build sets and, you know, I'd be in a costume or wearing something ridiculous. He'd be in a costume, wearing something ridiculous. And I think back to the fact that while I've changed a lot, having a big sense of humor, being able to laugh at yourself and the experiences that you've encountered, I mean. I think about like especially today, how I get a phone call from someone and they say, Hey, I need your help with this HVAC contractor. It's like, what's the deal? They're asking me about, you know, what should a minimum flow rate be for a bathroom exhaust fan and Energy Star? It's just like, you know, I get tired because unfortunately that's a question I get asked a lot. It's like, well, it's called look at the program checklist because it explicitly states that, you know, here's the thresholds that you have to meet if you have a continuous and here's the threshold for intermittent. And I chuckle about that because, I joke with even our clients today, HVAC contractors are the bane of my existence. And then there are days where it's actually insulation contractors. They're the bane of my existence, you know, and it's like, oh, no, actually, it's these darn inspectors that, you know and you know. So having a good sense of humor, being able to laugh about things, that's helped carry me through a lot of lot of situations, from high school to college to where I'm at now. Yeah, that's what I'll say.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:06

Good stuff. And what I hear there is keep learning, have fun, make the world a better place as one of your goals. And that is awesome stuff, Connor, thank you. Well, before we close out here, I have to ask you if you're willing to participate in a little something we have called our rapid-fire questions. These are seven questions they may range from silly, some are a little more serious. All you got to do is give a quick answer. And our audience needs to understand, if he agrees to the rapid-fire challenge, Connor does not know what we're going to ask him. So curious, are you up to it? Are you up to the challenge of rapid-fire?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:45:44

Well, with the help of some liquid courage here, I think so.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:51

There you go, awesome. Well, we can alternate asking questions. Ryan, you want to go first?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:45:55

Sure, I'd be glad to. First question, what is your favorite food?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:46:01

Okay. So there is a Thai restaurant in New Braunfels. They've got a, they call it like a yellow curry. But I get it Thai spicy because no one else at the table can steal my food it's so spicy. And I really like spicy food, so that's what I'll say.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:46:19

Sounds scrumptious.

Todd Miller:

: 00:46:22

So you ward off all those folks who might steal a forkful now and then. That's awesome.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:46:26

Yeah, I feel bad for my son who can't handle the heat. He's only four, so. Every once in a while, he'll stick his finger in it and start crying. "Alright, get the milk."

Todd Miller:

: 00:46:34

I'll have to remember that. Next time I'm in New Braunfels, I'll contact you for advice on the Thai restaurant. Awesome. Question number two, is there anything about yourself that might surprise people?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:46:50

You know? I have been told that, and no offense to y'all, but I have been told that when my head is shaved, it feels like a football.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:47:05

How often is your head shaved?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:47:07

I've only shaved it once in my life and my wife quickly corrected that mistake.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:14

Well, I have to admit, that probably is something not many people know about you. Okay, third question.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:47:23

This is one of my favorite questions. But if you had to eat a crayon, what color would you choose?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:47:28

So I'm not saying I know this from experience. However, cerulean.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:34

Cerulean, that's blue. What color is?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:47:38

Well, it's not blue, it's cerulean.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:39

Okay, got me there. Man, that is the most specific answer we've ever had to that question. Question number four, what do you enjoy most about your work?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:47:55

I get to do a different thing every day.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:58

That's cool. Good stuff. Yep, I enjoy that, too.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:48:02

Question number five, have you ever had a nickname? And if so, what was it?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:48:08

I've had several nicknames. Not all of them are repeatable in public.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:11

Apparently Football Head might have been one of them, but.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:48:14

Football Head may have been one of them. But I will say I've recently been given the nickname The Tick in Brazilian jiu jitsu. A training partner of mine has just called me the Tick for some reason. So there you go. I guess that's the most recent nickname I've been given that I can share publicly that doesn't put us on the adult podcast list.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:35

That's a good nickname. Okay, question number six. If you had to be either a cat or a dog, which would you choose to be?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:48:44

Oh, that's easy. I'm a cat person, so I'd be a cat.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:49

Cat person, that's awesome. You get to pee inside.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:48:52

Yeah. I don't have to sleep outside. And if I do, I can catch my own food.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:57

I like that.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:48:58

That's a we've asked this question a few times and it's I don't know, I would say it's probably 90% weighted towards dog as the answer, at least. There's been some good arguments for being a cat, though.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:49:10

Yeah.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:49:11

Alright. Moving on to the final question. What are you most grateful for?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:49:16

I'm going to, without going into specifics, I'll broadly say I'm most grateful for still being alive. So that's what I'll say, because now I'm able to help people.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:26

Good stuff. There's a story there then, too. Next episode.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:49:30

Next episode.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:31

Well, thank you, Connor, this has been fantastic. I have to recap. I think we were all successful on our challenge words. Ryan, your word was?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:49:41

Scrumptious.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:43

Yeah. I knew how you were gonna work that one in. I saw that, but that was good. Connor, your word was?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:49:51

Banana.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:52

So really? A banana suit, really?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:49:55

Yeah. No, that was. It really did happen. He had a banana suit, and he would walk around campus with a banana suit, and that was just kind of his thing. And, you know, every once in a while he would do it. And then when we needed a good laugh, he would wear a banana suit and we would build sets. Yeah, I don't know. It really did happen, really did.

Todd Miller:

: 00:50:14

Good stuff. My word was greatness. So that was a fun one to work in appropriately as well. So, Connor, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. For folks who may want to get in touch with you, what is the best, easiest, most expedient way for them to do that?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:50:32

There's a few ways you could. If you're looking for a professional connection, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Connor Dillon. There aren't a whole lot of us in the world, but I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I searched my name. So, connor, Dylan. Contact wise, you can reach me at connor@buildingscienceinstitute.org and shoot me an email. Just don't sign me up for any email list that you wouldn't want to be signed up for. Have to clarify that, because it's happened. What can I say? And other than that, you can go to buildingscienceinstitute.org and look us up and there are contact forms there. So if you don't know how to spell Connor, I spell it correctly, C-O-N-N-O-R. I have to be specific on that and now I've offended, you know, 95% of the Connor's, so I don't apologize for that because that is the correct spelling. So those are probably the best ways to get a hold of me.

Todd Miller:

: 00:51:31

Fantastic. And we will put those in the show notes as well. And yes, I was going to make sure your spelling was correct, the correct way, that's great. Well, this has been really good. Thank you again so much for your time. We enjoyed it.

Connor Dillon:

: 00:51:44

Alright, I appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me on. I hope I, I know I said "Hopefully I'll deliver." Did I deliver?

Connor Dillon:

: 00:51:52

Todd Miller: Absolutely. This has been good, great episode, great episode. Thank you. And thank you to our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Connor Dillon of Building Science Institute. We ask you, please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We always have such great guests that we're blessed with. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next episode though, change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them. Two very simple but yet powerful things you can do to change the world. God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.

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