TA Ep 179 FINAL

What's How's everyone been doing and just wanting all these updates as if I've you know For some reason been gone for weeks and weeks, even though it was really just a week So it feels so good to be back back with clients back in a rhythm back doing podcast interviews and having really really special guests on the show and with that said today we have Dr. Allie McLane on the podcast, who is a California licensed naturopathic doctor.

This conversation is so in line with some of the other recent episodes that have gone up, like Dr. Erica Matluck, where I'm just finding that I'm being drawn to more and more guest experts who take this really, I mean, truly integrated approach of mind, body, and spirit. It's not just holistic, physical medicine.

It's, we're looking at the entire being. And so, today's episode, we do talk a lot about physical contributors to anxiety, but what I loved about Dr. Allie, Dr. McLane, is her emphasis on, we need to be looking at all of these pieces of the puzzle, similar to Dr. Matluck. Otherwise, we're really missing core, core facets.

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So check the show notes below for a link to the, it just works deodorant capsules, as well as a discount code. Well, Dr. McLane, welcome to the Accrescent community, the Accrescent podcast. I'm so excited to have you on today. I'm very excited to be here.

Thank you so much for having me, Leigh Ann.

So it's really, really special to get to have you on and spend some time talking about your approach and really just like what you're seeing in practice, when it comes to anxiety. It's funny. I was thinking about, I was talking to some of my clients the other day and the difference between what you learn In a textbook and in a classroom versus what you discover as a practitioner in the field. And there is, I just have found like there is so much I have discovered. Such a difference. Yeah. And I always want to keep discovering. So that's a lot of what I'm excited to hear from your experience. I'm jumping ahead with all that said, give us a little introduction.

of three different primary concerns that all seem to be interrelated and always kind of show up together in one way or another. And that is gut health, mental health, and hormones. So that's kind of where my focus is. I like to work with people and help them address the mind and the body components of the root causes to those concerns.

And yeah, I'm really, really happy to be here today having this conversation with you. So thank you for having me. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. It's going to be so wonderful. So with that said, I think what I want to, what I want to start with is looking at, because you even said kind of physical, mental, emotional, hormonal, gut, all these different things.

And it's that bi directionality, that simultaneous contribution that is really important and really key because our body is giving information to our brain, to our mind, and vice versa. And we know, we see that illustrated with the gut connection, right? With the mind, the brain gut connection. Um, and so, So, starting off with the physiological contributors, um, I mean, there's, there's so many, right?

From the naturopathic perspective, we're really good at being investigators and understanding what is the root cause. We're just, one question begets three more questions, right? We're diggers. We're, we're wanting to understand. And so, with that perspective, I'm usually looking towards the gut, towards the hormones, and then also towards nutrient status.

And then that's going to lead to heart palpitation. So that's a physiologic symptom. symptom of anxiety, but that can have a brain physiology loop and can create more anxiety in the mind, right? Why is this happening to me? Why, why do I feel this way in my body? Why do I feel so tired? But my, my heart is pounding.

So that would be one example of that. Um, there's another kind of field that I've been interested in and I've been using. in my practice for a while. And that is the field of nutrient psychiatry. Um, so it's looking at things like, like copper and zinc and methylation and how those can actually impact the activity of our neurotransmitters.

But if somebody has low overall levels of methylation or they're an under methylator, that's associated with low serotonin activity. So if that person were to be put on a serotonin promoting drug, like an SSRI, for example, they might actually experience some relief. From the anxiety standpoint, not to say that that is the, that is the treatment that that person should go to.

Everything should be individualized to the person, um, but there's a way that we can actually address that from a naturopathic lens using actual amino acids. Um, vitamins, minerals, you know, and addressing it from the root cause, which is really kind of cool. Um, and then of course, like if somebody were to go on an SSRI and they're an under methylator, they might still experience the side effects that come along with a drug.

So, um, it's kind of that bio individuality applied to somebody's biochemistry. So that would be one physiologic lens to look through. I mentioned just, for example, low ferritin. Um, from the hormonal standpoint, we have hyperthyroidism, even hypothyroidism. People with autoimmune disease, like Hashimoto's, they can kind of go on the swing from hyper to hypo.

And so when you get that elevated thyroid activity, those thyroid antibodies start to increase, that can really look like anxiety. High cortisol, of course, as many of us are aware of, that stress hormone, that's more of like a prolonged anxiety, and that inability to really rest, to get deep rest and feeling like your, your body is just really taxed, right?

And then we get into a little bit more of how do we start to reverse and balance some of these out. But I want to actually go back to what you were saying about the methylation because that is really catching my ear. So there's something about when you don't methylate properly and, and there's tests you can do to find that out.

Um, so in my opinion, like even if somebody does want to go on a medication, which I think everyone should have a choice to do whatever they feel is best for them at the stage of life that they're in. Um, do I think that, you know, psychiatric medications for anxiety long term are the best idea? Maybe not, but maybe during a stressful period of somebody's life and then working to address the underlying root causes just because of the side effects that I see.

Um, but with people who, you know, do want to go on it, it would help to understand what their methylation is. So it's a test, um, if your listeners are curious, it's a test that you can do at LabCorp. It's only through LabCorp, and the test is whole blood histamine. It has to be whole blood. And so, um, there's a, there's a reference interval for that, but if it's, if it's higher, It's an inverse relationship, that whole blood histamine is elevated, that's correlated with under methylation and vice versa.

Exactly. Supplements and other things you can do, and then also things to avoid, right? Because if somebody is an under methylator, giving them folate or niacin might push them more in the wrong direction, whereas giving them methionine or SAMe might be more supportive to them. Okay. This is the first time I'm hearing about methylation in relation to anxiety.

The snips. Yeah. Detox, or maybe even like nutrient uptake, but not in relation to this. So that's really, really fascinating. Yeah. And a lot of people, when they're talking about methylation and they're talking about SNPs, what they're talking about is just your genetic predisposition. So just because you have a SNP or a predisposition, it doesn't mean, right, we know with epigenetics, it doesn't mean that that's getting activated.

So you could have an MTHFR. Um, and then you can also be under methylated. And so you could be taking methylated folate for a while, and you might feel better for a little bit of time. And this is a lot of my patients feel this way, and then they start to feel worse because it's that global net methylation that needs to be worked on.

Yeah. Oh, I love this because that'll be something that I recommend in my practice. I'm really looking at the mental, emotional, spiritual components of the contributors, but I, I'm in this world and so I'll, I'll often say, Hey, if we're working on anxiety, this is the piece of that puzzle we're looking at.

There are other pieces of this puzzle that you need to make sure you're addressing with your other, you know, team members. And practitioners. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. I'm, I'm already like, Oh, I want to just dive into all of that now and how do we correct it? But I'm trying to put myself back and go, let's start with what can the contributors be?

And then we'll get to correct. Absolutely. Yeah. So. Can we talk a little bit more about hormones though and how maybe even how that starts to have this like long term trickle effect and then maybe even the ripple effect that starts to have because I think that's something too that can be really subtle.

It's not that one day you were fine, the next day your hormones went chaotic. It was this slow burn. Yeah, you just, you're at, it was the tip of the iceberg that you could barely see, and there's so much underneath that. Um, so are we, are we referring more to like stress hormones? I think we're kind of getting into the stress hormone conversation now.

And pregnenolone has to build cortisol as well, right? And so if you have this fight or flight chronic state in your body, and you're needing to use a lot of cortisol to kind of mitigate that, then your body is going to preferentially make cortisol. Right. Um, and so sex hormones are kind of going to fall to the wayside and become less of a, less of a preference.

anxiolytic or anti anxiety kind of resting hormone that keeps us calm in our luteal phase before we have our period. Um, now there's more nuance there because now there's discussion around actual GABA receptors in the brain and those potentially being mutated in certain people. So it's not just like, oh, this person has low progesterone.

Let me give them progesterone in their luteal phase and they're going to feel better. It would be great. If that worked for everyone. And it does work for some people, but some women that I've seen, unfortunately feel worse with progesterone. And that has to do with their brain's response to it because progesterone is, is turning into a different thing that goes to our brain.

Ali, like test my, my sex hormones. Like what do, what do we have to fix with my hormones? Like what's my estrogen progesterone? Am I estrogen dominant? And you know, maybe they are estrogen dominant. Maybe they do have low progesterone, but the root cause is not to start with addressing those things. The root cause is actually to address the stress piece.

Stress is everything in nervous system. Like you said, I think that's so important. And then gut health as well, because we need to be able to like excrete hormones. Um, I'll let, I'll let you interject. I just, I love it because what's interesting is there's sort of these layers of root cause, if you will, where.

We're going to get them balanced. And it's all coming from a really good place, but even then you have to be asking the question. Why are my hormones in balance? Something is causing this. I think I, I really do believe nothing is happening randomly. Exactly. We just maybe don't always know what that real cause and effect is, but.

Yeah, bringing it back to, and I feel this way a little bit because I take a natural thyroid supplement of being like I want to really figure this out one day and it probably does go back to some chronic stress and early childhood trauma and just some things that I'm continuing to work through. Yes.

For methylation support, any kind of supplement. Right. And the thing is like we live. Well, most of us, most, probably most people tuning into this podcast live a really fast paced life. And so we're just not living like our ancestors did. It's just not natural. Right. And we have so much, not only individual trauma, but also collective and generational trauma that many people are just trudging through life and haven't really worked on.

And the more that I do this. The more that I realize that that's really where it's at. And that, that's where I've been. That's where I've been going lately, you know, and that's where I've been, been diving into. It's like, yes, functional medicine, naturopathic medicine. Yes, bread and butter. Awesome. But if you truly want, like we can do supplements, we can do nutrition, we can do gut health, but if you truly want to take it to the next level, like the work you're doing, we got to address the subconscious mind.

I educate on it all the time. And also this, the posts you see on Instagram where it's like six week nervous system reset. Yeah.

Do the nervous system regulation tools and gather those tools and learn those skills. But also same thing, if we're just soothing the nervous system and never asking the question, Why is my nervous system chronically dysregulated? Exactly. You're just going to be stuck soothing for the rest of your life.

And so there's this kind of danger, fear filled belief running in the background of your psyche all the time. Yeah. How does that ripple out into the hormones you produce and the way you're able to digest and the way your nervous system functions, all those things. So yeah. And these are things that I've been diving into as of late.

I think one of the things that. I'm not afraid to admit is that I'm always learning and the more I learn, the less I know, you know? And so, um, some of the things that I've been diving into recently are like German new medicine, family constellations. Um, I don't know if you're familiar with like family constellations and Bert Hellinger.

And it's, I want to give myself a little bit more credit. I'm not just patching holes, but I feel like if I'm not, I'm not doing my diligence. If I don't have that conversation with somebody, because what happens is oftentimes the anxious. Clients will just want their anxiety solved. Because there's this feeling of hypervigilance, right?

I'm not safe, and so can you just help me be safe? Because they don't have those resources to feel safe in their own body. And so, there can be like a tendency to like, order these labs for me, tell me what's wrong on these labs, and then give me the supplements to fix me, and then I can just go about my life living it in the same way, and I don't ever have to go to these scary places in my mind.

Yes. And I do think Bringing in resources on a physiological level can aid even in the emotional processing to your point. Like if I just feel so awful and fatigued, I don't even have the capacity sometimes to do that deep emotional excavation. I might need to. Absolutely. Yeah. It's the two need to be married together.

And you're, and you're like, Oh wow, I was really like, it was really so tense and holding on, but actually, Oh, I can breathe now. Um, and that's, and that's what I want for people. You know, I, I don't want to perpetuate more of the same. I want people to break free. And when I ask myself, like what my intention is when I work with somebody, it's that I want people to break free.

But yes, what are you seeing? And then how does that lead, right? Maybe there's parasites in the gut, but how could that actually be causing or contributing to feelings of anxiety? Yeah. Um, so parasites would go under the umbrella of dysbiosis, right? Critters. that are in an abundance that they really shouldn't be there.

Um, and so when we're dealing with any kind of dysbiosis, we kind of have to suss out what kind of dysbiosis it is. And it's really helpful to do testing to figure that out. Now, um, parasites are going to be harder to test. Um, it's Usually when I'm starting to work with somebody and their gut parasites is not the first place that I go.

Um, as different symptoms, a lot of times, oftentimes because your small intestine is, is located in that center, kind of like around your belly button or your large intestine, it's more like on the peripheral of your, of your abdomen. So, um, it could be abdominal distension, bloating, gas. Um, issues with motility, meaning like too many bowel movements or frequent bowel movements.

Um, uh, lots of, uh, lots of diarrhea, lots of constipation. Um, issues with malabsorption oftentimes because the small intestine is where all those microvilli are. Right? Those long finger like structures that grab onto nutrients from our food. So if we have a bunch of bacteria and inflammation there, it's really hard for us to absorb that.

So those are kind of the symptoms that you would see. Sebo and I actually see a lot of people with when I say Sebo, I'm also referring to it could be methanogen or, or fungal. There's, there's different critters. Um, but that's really like something that I see quite often because it goes hand in hand with a fast paced lifestyle and lots of stress.

There are some things that are maybe a little bit less, you know, um, easy to work with, like if somebody has, you know, um, EDS for example, or Ehlers Danlos, so they might have like chronic, you know, gut issues, and that's more of a genetic thing, um, if somebody has, you know, if they've had surgery down there, okay, but in most cases, it's a functional cause, and it has to do with like nervous system dysregulation, stress, um, diet, and so if we can address in motility as well, Um, if we can address those pieces, then we can prevent it from coming back.

Right? Like, we can't, like, round after round after round of antibiotic or, like, you know, oregano capsules or berberine. Like, that can only get you so far, and then we start to see low levels of bifidobacteria, and we don't want to push people to the point of like where their actual microbiome is depleted.

So when we're treating the gut, cause I'm, I'm seeing a lot of very aggressive, you know, gut protocols in terms of the killing, when we're treating it, we want to balance the killing with the nourishing. Of the microbiome because those bugs do so much for us. So, um, from the standpoint of how a dysbiosis can create issues, especially as it relates to anxiety, one of the main, uh, players there is something called LPS or lipopolysaccharide.

with reverence for the rest of what's going on in, in your gut. So it gets a little bit like a little bit tricky in terms of, cause we, we could just like blast, you know, we could just blast everything, but it's like, do we want to do that? Because when I'm working with somebody, I'm not just thinking about what are we going to do right now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like for people that I work with, oftentimes I work with really sensitive people, and if I were to give those people like 15 supplements, Which I see, you know, being done sometimes. Like here's this protocol of 15 supplements, and it's kind of rigid. They would feel terrible, and they wouldn't trust me, and they would be like, what are you doing?

Like I can't, I can't take all this. I'm so overwhelmed, right? So doing things in layers, like not trying to address everything at once, addressing things one at a time, and then introducing things one at a time for the super sensitive people who are like, I really can't, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to tolerate this.

Okay, let's like open the capsule and put a little bit of powder and see how you feel on this day, right? People's systems, especially people who are really traumatized and who have dysregulated nervous systems and trauma. It's like, they can only, like you said, they can only tolerate so much. So there has to be kind of like a gentleness with it.

Yeah. So, and, and I guess to, to your point, it's kind of like, yeah, now, now I have the bacteria and it's causing these microvilli to not be able to absorb nutrients. So if I clear out the bacteria, then maybe I'll be able to absorb more nutrients again, but even that there's something there of, but why could it thrive in the first place?

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's rarely do I see somebody with rampant gut issues who's like, Yeah, you know, everything's good. Like, everything's chill. Life is great. I just, I spend the mornings basking in the sun and I sip on my tea. Like, no. No. No. Yeah, totally. And maybe also, again, sort of that spiral we're talking about.

Maybe there's some initial stress. And again, we're not, we're not saying that you have some initial stress and then immediately you have SIBO. It's that kind of slow downward spiral. Maybe you have some initial stress paired with maybe a low, not a very nutrient dense diet, which then is kind of creating this perfect storm that then becomes something much bigger.

Because it's the bugs that are making the enzymes to digest those foods. It's not, it's not us. So if we change our microbiome and we cultivate a better microbiome, that's, and that's, that's really like what I, if there's anything anyone, you know, should take away from this, it's like, okay. Yes, you might have this pathology in your gut and treat that.

Awesome. But also really make sure you're tending to your microbiome because your microbiome does so much for you. Those short chain fatty acids that those positive, um, probiotic bugs in your gut produce are so beneficial for you. So, um, eating the soluble fiber, eating the resistant starch, eating the polyphenols, all the things that are supportive to your gut microbiome.

Yeah. I also know we produce what like. 95 percent of our serotonin in the gut? Yeah. How, how else is that kind of contributing to, to anxiety? Yeah. So it's really those two main mechanisms. Now there is kind of some conversation around is the serotonin in the gut really, um, activating the brain as much as we think it is, or is it activating the gut brain because they're connected via the vagus nerve, but, um, serotonin is actually a pro kinetic agent, right?

That's really like, that's the issue. So whether or not it's the serotonin produced in your gut or the nutrients that are obser absorbed and are creating the building blocks, the issue is the same thing. Mm-hmm . You don't have enough raw material and so mm-hmm . To fix that, we have to fix that, that sponge Right.

It's, it's, it's gunked up with a bunch of tar on it. Right. We need a, we need a nice absorbent sponge. Yeah. And are there, is there anything else? That you see other than like pathogenic overload in the gut that Yeah. You know, sometimes needs to be cleared out. Yeah, um, so Well, from the perspective of looking at your gut, we have pathobionts, we have commensal bugs, and we have probiotics.

In some people it can be commensal, but in other people it can be pathogenic. And that's where you can start to look at some of the genes that the H. pylori is producing. But if somebody has the clinical picture, right? If they're nauseous, if they have a lot of reflux, you know, they're not, their, their stomach, they have a lot of stomach issues.

Maybe they even have an ulcer. Like that would be way down the road. Um, then yeah, we got to treat it, but maybe the person is completely okay. And we see a little bit of H pylori show up. It can be commensal. And sometimes people are being treated for things that they don't necessarily need to be treated for using pretty strong, potent things that can then again, disrupt the microbiome.

If somebody's chronically stressed, they don't have that fire or that vitality to break down their food. So supporting that, right. Supporting the flow of bile, like just the digestive. processes because there's something called the cephalic phase of digestion. Cephalic refers to the head, right? So it's how we are interpreting that food is going to enter our body.

So when we get that signal, we start to secrete saliva, our salivary amylases or carbohydrate. Digesting enzymes start to secrete. We start to secrete stomach acid. Our bile starts, our juices start to flow from our gallbladder, which help us digest and break down fats. Um, and so sometimes those processes aren't happening because that gut brain connection is poor and somebody's stressed.

Yeah, yeah. And then some herbal bitters as well, because bitters will stimulate those receptors, and then that will get all those juices flowing. So a brand that I just discovered this year and have been absolutely obsessed with it is the fullest saffron latte I actually had Nikki Bostwick the founder of the Fullest on the podcast that episode is 156 For any who want to go back and listen to it and i'll make sure it's linked in the show notes below as well the episode But after I had this conversation with her I immediately ran out and bought The saffron latte powder and it is so delicious I drink it every single evening and it's [00:40:00] become such a beautiful ritual for me because i'm such a beverage girly.

I love having Different beverages to drink throughout the day, but to also have something in the evening that has no caffeine Such clean ingredients, but what you'll guys hear if you haven't listened to that podcast episode yet is that the studies have found recently that Saffron at a certain dose at a certain dose is just as effective as Prozac for helping Anxiety, depression, ADHD, and so it's something that I have absolutely loved myself.

But it's become kind of my product of the year that I'm just like, Oh my god, how can I get everyone to try this? So they have the latte powder, which I absolutely love, and the dosage of saffron in the latte powder is the highest. But they also have capsules that you can take that still meet that minimum dosage that has been studied.

And the capsules are a little bit, a little bit less expensive as well. So really encourage you guys check out the link below in the show notes for discount codes, holiday sales, and give the fullest to try. You're making me think of last year in the summer was an incredibly stressful time for me. A lot of things kind of hit all at once.

I finally just was like, Okay. No matter what I eat, I'm just not feeling good. I just need to give my gut a little break. And so for, for two weeks, I literally just had an all liquid diet, like raw milk, protein shakes, some juices, maybe with some fiber capsules, but I just like, didn't eat solid food for two weeks.

Cause I could just feel my whole system. Yeah. It's like, it's too much. Yeah. And then knowing, oh, this is, I knew immediately this is emotional, this is stress related. And so doing all that extra work, but it was really actually neat for me to see that in myself and go, wow, first of all, this response is so immediate.

Not attuning to those signals, but being able to go, Oh, something's off. The stress is really affecting me. How, how can I actually physiologically lighten the load for a little bit while also addressing some of these bigger. Root causes and processing that so yeah, yeah, it wasn't the intent to like stay on a liquid diet forever.

I just knew Look right now. This is what feels good Yeah I'm gonna give that to my body and then come out of it when it feels good So and that's so cool that you have the ability to do that right, you have like the level of understanding and trust in your body to where You could be like, Hmm, I think my body is going through something right now and I need to listen to it and maybe tweak some things and support it.

We're human. Right. And so when that does happen, do you have the faculties and the resources? It's to trust your body and to recalibrate things, right? To trust that your body knows what it's doing because our bodies are so intelligent. So that was, thank you for sharing that because that's really, really nice for me to hear.

Yes To be able to do so much for ourselves. And then when we're like, I'm, I'm tried all the things it's still not working or it helped a bit, but something's still lingering. Great. Now let me go get another level of expertise. Yes, exactly. And moving to that level of expertise from the place of like, I know my body and I feel comfortable with whatever symptoms my body is expressing, but I would like somebody to help me support it versus like.

I don't trust this experience. And, and that's okay if that's where you are. Like, yeah, but just as a place to head towards or as a destination. Yeah. And finding those practitioners who want to kind of help equip you to do that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, gosh, I feel like I need two hours with every single person.

We did kind of cover this in some ways as we were talking about potential root causes. Yeah. But I would be kind of interested in your flow chart of someone's coming in. Here's how I'm starting. Maybe here's some of the favorite tests I like to do. If there's an order of operations. Yeah. So pretty much on every new patient I get.

I'm doing a blood test. I'm doing a stool test, and the other test is kind of a floater. I might do a hair test. I might do a salivary cortisol test. I might do a, something called a pyrrole test, which is one of those biochemical markers. Um, it depends on the person, but everyone's getting a stool test and everyone's getting a blood test.

Looking at things like, um, some of those biochemical things that I said. So copper, zinc, ceruloplasmin, whole blood histamine. Um, that's kind of like my, my meaty kind of primary blood test workup. And then the stool test that I do is, is looking at the health of the microbiome, but it's also checking for pathogens.

Um, and the initial visit. So I'm asking a lot of questions and I can kind of see where things are, where the holes are in somebody's life. And I could be like, okay, I think this is probably an area that we need to focus. Or like, I was never the same since I took this medication or I, you know, I lost, uh, I lost a parent or I, you know, and those things are significant.

Yeah, well completely. And then to that end, like for example, one of the things you said earlier was I don't tend to start with parasites. We've also talked about hormones. Is there a general, like, oh, I start, yeah, I start with hormones and then move into pathogens, or I start with all of it, but in a really gentle way?

I start with getting the big picture. Assessing the big picture and then taking a step back and using my intuition and also speaking with the individual that I'm present with, where do we start? And usually that's going to be the gut. If they have a lot of things going on in the gut, we figure out what that is.

Like life is really the most potent and. Important part of the whole process, really dialing, dialing in your life so that you're living in a way that supports health and supports vitality versus drains vitality. So, Yeah. Yeah. But I also love that you're saying there's, there's an intuition. And I, I absolutely use this in client work as well, where there's a, there is no one set protocol.

Yes. But I actually am very wary when there's a one size fits all approach. I can't do that because I wouldn't be effective if I did that. You know, even if I wanted to, it wouldn't work because everyone is so different. So yes. And you just feel it. Like I, sometimes I feel it physically in my body. It's like an energetic thing of, Ooh, I can't, I can't go there yet with that person.

We've got to go here first. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I do want to ask this question, which is, Kind of twofold. One, are there things you're seeing in people who are coming to you and clients you're working with that are just like common missteps or common misconceptions when it comes to. You know, working with anxiety or kind of the flip side of that question, just in the general ethers of mass media, social media, pop culture.

But I do get really frustrated when women go to their doctors and they have really bad postpartum anxiety or they have really bad, you know, um, just anxiety in general or depression and they're just offered or PMDD. They're just offered a birth control pill or an antidepressant. Like that's like they have two options, right?

And if, and that doesn't work for everyone. And if it does, that's awesome. And that's great. Like sometimes we really need to get people in a better place so that they can function in their lives. But if you're just giving them that you're not doing any further workup or investigation as to what their body really needs or what their soul really needs.

And I'm really grateful for like the awareness around that. But despite the awareness, it's still happening. Right. And it's, and it's not that like. Conventional doctors or primary care doctors are like bad people and they just don't care about people. It's that they don't have the tools. Like it's not in their training.

They don't understand these things. And so people are just kind of left like, okay, I guess I will just figure it out on my own. And then they end up going on the internet and researching and you know, this person is like trying to sell this supplement and this person's trying to sell this. Everyone's trying to sell you something right on the internet.

And how is anyone going to know that anything is going to really help somebody without actually understanding the individual? Everything is so bio individualized and as I illustrated before, a certain nutrient can be really helpful and beneficial for somebody and it can completely push a different person in the wrong direction.

So those are kind of my, my hangups with things. And I think by the time people find me, they've realized that, you know, their doctors are not going to help them. The stuff that they bought on the internet isn't working. They want somebody to really do the deep dive and understand and help them understand what's going on.

Yes. Um, just like some of those supplements might be really great. Some of them might not, but I think having someone with such an expertise and a broader lens. That can also hold the vision for you is so powerful to work with and then who also just has all those resources. Yeah. Yeah. They try this, this might not work for you, but if you want to try it, go ahead.

If it doesn't, here's where we'll go next. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are. Um, and they're intelligent and smart and they may not give themselves enough credit for what their body is intuitively telling them. So, yeah, like if you find something that works, go for it. There are some things that I, I will say might make you feel better in the short term, but worse in the long term.

This is like, this is an endeavor and it's a, it's a lifestyle shift. I mean, it's, it's confronting. It's vulnerability. I mean, really, it's What I see is kind of, if I had to break it down into two archetypes, it's the individuals who are experiencing something and they want whatever they, whatever they can get, that will allow them to continue to live the life they're already living.

Yes. And then there's the individuals who are approaching this going, something's up. I want to understand the deeper root cause of it. And I am willing. To change my life in whatever way my mind, body and spirit is telling me I need to. Yeah. To be able to sustainably change this. Yeah. I love working with a second category of people.

Maybe we are doing more testing and we are taking more supplements. Yes. Um, our, maybe our diet is a little more rigid than it normally would be. Yes. Um, but that reminder of this exactly how it looks right now might not be how it's going to be forever. And also to the point we just made, it's not do this deep treatment phase.

And then go back to everything we were doing before. Exactly. Yeah. I want to hear from you though, some of the kind of general lifestyle tips. Or, you know, when we're That would be more in the, in the lifestyle phase. Yes. When we're in lifestyle phase. Yeah. What are some of those things for you that maybe you do or you see or you recommend to clients often where it's like, Hey, even once we're out of that place.

And nighttime we have a light excess. So correcting that, right. Um, many people are not spending enough time outside and the sunlight has to get in your eyes. It's not just like you go outside with sun with sunglasses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sunglasses or contacts or glasses, like getting naked eye exposure is setting an internal biological clock, doing that in the morning.

With, with light as medicine. That's really important. Um, and so I'm sure your listeners probably know, but like blue light exposure at night, that's going to be disruptive to the circadian rhythm, so either popping on some dark red or dark amber lenses, or just not having overhead lights on, having more red lights.

Once the sun goes down outside, your internal environment should mimic that, or just very dimly lit lights. Um, same thing with like screens not consuming. A lot of screens or if you are if you have to like making sure that that you have some kind of a red filter and it's the light is dim when you're doing that.

But like, why are we not outside? Right. And I understand that people lead busy, busy lives and you know, some people spend all day in an office, but even if it's like, you have your lunch break, you have an hour, you know, you're at a desk job. Can you go outside and eat your lunch outside? Like, can you resist the temptation to like stay inside under the artificial light and scroll and, you know, binge dopamine and instead go outside and get some natural dopamine.

I think a lot of women don't allow themselves to feel. And so what happens is when we suppress our emotions, those manifest in anger or anxiety. So if you're feeling really heavy or really low, instead of just being like, I'm just gonna just drink a bunch of coffee and I don't want to deal with this right now, I don't have time and da da da da, I'm gonna drink some wine or da, like, can you, can you just tune into that and just, even if it's just like, hey, I see you, anxiety, I see you, you know, stress, I see you melancholy, like, I just, I just want to give you.

stuff, but I think most people know that, you know, and I think that that information is like very well distributed at this point. And I think what people really need to understand is like, we are human beings and we have human needs. We need to be in sync with nature. We need to be able to feel our emotions like on a basic level.

And I know these things sound so basic, but most people aren't doing these things because they're not encouraged. Right, right. Well, and just also that. I don't want this to sound dismissive because in some ways health can be really complex and tricky. And then in so many ways, like it's simple. And when we bring in some of these simple things, those can be some of the most impactful.

Maybe yes. We're in a treatment phase. Yeah. It's a bit hard and, and kind of challenging and confronting for sure. But that lifestyle phase I think really should be quite easeful and sustainable and nourishing. Not. I'm just living in misery, so that I can have longevity. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, having some, having some flexibility, you know, I made a comment about drinking wine when you're stressed.

It's not that you can't drink wine. You know, it's just that what, like anytime you're involved in a behavior, just ask yourself, am I doing this from a place of like, I'm feeling good and I'm going to go spend time with my friends. Or is it like, this is my coping mechanism. Right. And just getting curious about those things.

I've experienced it a lot of my clients experience it but like really like just understanding that it's okay to be a human and it's okay to just take a step back, especially when things get overwhelming, right? Sometimes people have multiple diagnoses like, Oh, I have mold toxicity, I have this, I have that, and I have to do this, you know, I have to sauna this many times, and take this supplements, and do this, and then a parasite, and then they're just like consuming, consuming, consuming, and they have so much anxiety about it, and it's like, okay, can we, can we just like, create a little bit of like safety, and a little bit of like, it's okay for this to feel really crappy, and like, let's, have you, have you, Gone outside today.

So keeping that in mind and always bringing it back to the mind and the body and the individual and the person that that person is and their unique needs. Mm-hmm . Oh, that's such, that's a perfect place to close it. awesome. Um, yeah, I, there's always, I always lately have been feeling this way. It's just like.

Oh, I need another hour at least to cover all the facets of it. And then of course, all the beautiful, just organic trails we go down naturally anyways. But that was super, super wonderful. I want to make sure, um, your Your Instagram, your website will all be linked on the show notes so that people can find you and reach out to you.

Either way. Beautiful. I will make sure it's linked. Thank you so, so much for coming on. And I really recommend a follow on your page. Cause you post such great stuff. I really, really love. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Leigh Ann, for having me. It was great talking to you. It was such a joy. Thank you so much.