Artwork for podcast The Backstory on Marketing
Episode 1: Jamie Turner, An Audience of One
Episode 126th January 2022 • The Backstory on Marketing • Guy Powell
00:00:00 00:38:22

Share Episode

Shownotes

About Jamie:

Jamie Turner is an internationally recognized author, professor, and business consultant. He speaks about leadership, persuasion, and marketing at events around the globe. He is a contributor to many well-known publications including Inc., Entrepreneur, Business Insider, and Forbes.  He's a regular guest on CNN and HLN.  Jamie is the co-author of How to Make Money with Social Media, Go Mobile, and his new book, An Audience of One: Drive Superior Results by Making the Radical Shift from Mass Marketing to One-to-One Marketing.   

About The Audience of One:

Jamie co-authored An Audience of One with Chuck Moxley.  They define one-to-one marketing as a marketing method in which companies engage with customers using a "Personalized approach based on who they are, how they think, what they purchase, what their interests are, where they go, and how they prefer to be communicated with"(p. 3. An Audience of One). 

One-to-one marketers use first-party data to create highly relevant and engaging ads for their consumers, showing them products that meet their interests and address their pain points.  Although the one-to-one approach can be more expensive than mass marketing methods, the proper use of first-party, anonymized data leads to a higher return on marketing investment (ROMI) because of the ad's high relevancy to the consumer.

The book explains one-to-one marketing in simple terms so that marketing professionals and students alike can understand how to implement the 1:1 method in their marketing strategies and drive ROMI.

Links:

Download a free chapter and purchase An Audience of One: Drive Superior Results by Making the Radical Shift from Mass Marketing to One-to-One Marketing:

Jamie Turner LinkedIn

Jamie Turner personal website

Jamie Turner Amazon author profile

Chuck Moxley LinkedIn

Guy Powell LinkedIn

Subscribe to Guy's Newsletter

Watch Video of This Episode

Transcripts

Guy Powell:

Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the January

Guy Powell:

episode of the backstory on marketing. If you haven't

Guy Powell:

already done so please visit pro relevant.com and sign up for all

Guy Powell:

of these episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the upcoming

Guy Powell:

book the post COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to

Guy Powell:

win. Today we'll be speaking with Jamie Turner, and he and

Guy Powell:

his co author Chuck Moxley, just released their new book and

Guy Powell:

audience of one drive superior results by making the radical

Guy Powell:

shift from mass marketing to One to One marketing. Let me tell

Guy Powell:

you a little bit about Jamie. First of all, he is an

Guy Powell:

internationally recognized author, professor and marketing

Guy Powell:

consultant. He speaks about leadership, persuasion,

Guy Powell:

marketing and events around the globe. He's been seen an inc,

Guy Powell:

and entrepreneur, Business Insider, and Forbes, as well as

Guy Powell:

being a regular guest on CNN, and HLN. He's the author and co

Guy Powell:

author of many other books, including how to make money with

Guy Powell:

social media, go mobile, and of course, his latest new book here

Guy Powell:

and audience of one. Welcome, Jamie.

Jamie Turner:

Hey, guy, great to be here. Thank you for having me

Jamie Turner:

on.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, absolutely. It's really a pleasure. And I

Guy Powell:

appreciate it. And you know, I just got done reading your book.

Guy Powell:

And I really enjoyed it, it was really perfect for helping to

Guy Powell:

understand the kind of the new paradigm of marketing, which is

Guy Powell:

one to one marketing. And so why don't we just get started. And

Guy Powell:

so tell us a little bit about how the how you got started,

Guy Powell:

what was the genesis of writing this book?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, I, my co author checkmarks. And I have

Jamie Turner:

known each other for 30 years, Chuck has been mostly in the Bay

Jamie Turner:

Area with very advanced technologies, mostly doing

Jamie Turner:

marketing for technology companies. And a few years ago,

Jamie Turner:

he actually now maybe five years ago, he said, Hey, we've got

Jamie Turner:

this new technology where we can essentially, hyper target

Jamie Turner:

people, and then follow them through the sales funnel. And

Jamie Turner:

figure out if you've bought the product that we are sending you

Jamie Turner:

ads about even if you buy the product at a bricks and mortar

Jamie Turner:

retailer. So for example, we know that we can kind of follow

Jamie Turner:

you around the internet, because you're leaving a digital trail

Jamie Turner:

everywhere. And if you go onto an E commerce site and buy the

Jamie Turner:

product, we go, Oh, okay. You know, they saw the ad, they

Jamie Turner:

click through, they bought the product, great. This technology

Jamie Turner:

allows us to go in and do that whether you're watching a TV

Jamie Turner:

commercial, whether you are looking at something online, we

Jamie Turner:

take all of that data. And even if you buy the product at a

Jamie Turner:

bricks and mortar retailer, in most cases, not all, we can then

Jamie Turner:

tie all that data together and go, Oh, look, guy went in, we

Jamie Turner:

marketed a pair of running shoes to him. And then we saw him go

Jamie Turner:

through the sales funnel. And then he went to the Nike store

Jamie Turner:

and bought the running shoes at the Nike store. Great. We know

Jamie Turner:

that's from our ad campaign. So really kind of is changed things

Jamie Turner:

the way we market to people. And the way we track the results.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, fantastic. Exactly. And it makes a lot of

Guy Powell:

sense. And it's certainly a lot different than the traditional

Guy Powell:

kind of media and mass media. In the book, you use the term one

Guy Powell:

to one marketing, why don't you give us a good definition of

Guy Powell:

what you mean by that?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, you know, really kind of started many

Jamie Turner:

years ago with peppers. And Rogers wrote a book about one to

Jamie Turner:

one marketing, and it was called a one on one future. And they

Jamie Turner:

were saying, Hey, you can narrow your focus. And so now that

Jamie Turner:

technology is there, what we mean by one to one is the

Jamie Turner:

ability to not only personalize the message as much as possible,

Jamie Turner:

and it's not. You can't in an TV ad, say guy we want you buy

Jamie Turner:

these running shoes. But we can start getting into running an ad

Jamie Turner:

for guy Powell for running shoes on TV, where your next door

Jamie Turner:

neighbor who we know from the data we can collect, doesn't

Jamie Turner:

run, never will run has no interest in running. We don't

Jamie Turner:

advertise to them on TV, but your third neighbor down the

Jamie Turner:

street is just getting into running. And we know that again

Jamie Turner:

from the data. So we can get guy who's a heavy runner, see one

Jamie Turner:

ad, skip over the neighbor who doesn't see who's never going to

Jamie Turner:

be a runner, Pat bypass them and then send a different end of the

Jamie Turner:

third neighbor who's just now getting it running. And by eight

Jamie Turner:

being able to do that. We can hyper target the ads and then

Jamie Turner:

really kind of follow you through the sales funnel as you

Jamie Turner:

go through things. Essentially, if you want to kind of nugget

Jamie Turner:

it's a way To increase revenues by narrowing your focus, so

Jamie Turner:

mostly mass marketing was about, hey, let's grow our revenues by

Jamie Turner:

marketing to everybody. And hopefully, we'll be able to get

Jamie Turner:

some people to buy our product. This is the opposite, where we

Jamie Turner:

market to fewer people, which by the way, is a little more

Jamie Turner:

expensive. But in the long run, there's less waste. So then by

Jamie Turner:

narrowing our focus, we can grow our revenue. So it's a real

Jamie Turner:

interesting, kind of counterintuitive way to do

Jamie Turner:

marketing based on what we've learned for the past century.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, because, like you

Guy Powell:

said, with linear marketing, I can basically or mass marketing,

Guy Powell:

I guess is the right term is AI by an AI by a demographic 20

Guy Powell:

females 25 to 50. And, and it may be that they're watching

Guy Powell:

Bachelorette, as an example. But there's also a bunch of other

Guy Powell:

people that are watching it. And so you waste all of those, all

Guy Powell:

of those impressions. Is that kind of where you're going?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, it is. And it's important to note, we're

Jamie Turner:

not saying, Don't do mass marketing, we're saying, use

Jamie Turner:

mass marketing appropriately. Mass Marketing is great for

Jamie Turner:

building brand awareness, because then inexpensively you

Jamie Turner:

just market to everybody. And then you get everybody saying,

Jamie Turner:

Hey, there's this new brand of running shoes. And again, I'm

Jamie Turner:

just going to use that as an example. There's this new brand

Jamie Turner:

of running shoes I keep hearing about, I have a nephew who runs

Jamie Turner:

Maybe he knows about him or she knows about him. And that's,

Jamie Turner:

that's positive. That's mass marketing to build top of the

Jamie Turner:

funnel brand awareness. So mass marketing isn't going away.

Jamie Turner:

We're saying use mass marketing to build brand awareness, use

Jamie Turner:

one to one marketing, when you're in the middle part of the

Jamie Turner:

sales funnel, or the bottom of the sales funnel. And you really

Jamie Turner:

want to track the results of what you're doing. So they're

Jamie Turner:

both important, but one to one is now feasible and possible,

Jamie Turner:

whereas it really wasn't feasible, impossible previously.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, and I think to the other thing that would be

Guy Powell:

interesting with mass marketing versus this one to one is, let's

Guy Powell:

say you do target females 25 to 50, you could get a whole bunch

Guy Powell:

of other sub segments or micro segments that come out of that.

Guy Powell:

So you could have novice runners versus new runners versus

Guy Powell:

something else. And then with the mid funnel to bottom of the

Guy Powell:

funnel, one to one marketing, what sound like then you can

Guy Powell:

really hyper target those to get them to convert. Yeah, I know

Guy Powell:

you see that.

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, exactly. In fact, the data all over the

Jamie Turner:

place is saying the more personalized your message, the

Jamie Turner:

more likely you are to convert. So if you get to get us your

Jamie Turner:

example, we've built kind of brand awareness for running

Jamie Turner:

shoes at the top of the funnel. And then you start getting into

Jamie Turner:

some people are trail runners, some people are marathoners and

Jamie Turner:

some people are just light runners. If I'm a marathoner,

Jamie Turner:

and I get an ad that says, hey, as a marathoner, you might be

Jamie Turner:

interested in this new kind of Marathon shoe that we've got,

Jamie Turner:

that is very interesting to me. But if I get an ad that says,

Jamie Turner:

Hey, by our trail, running shoes, I'm gonna go I'm not

Jamie Turner:

interested in I'm a marathon, I'm not interested in trail

Jamie Turner:

running shoes. So so it's it's designed to make the ads more

Jamie Turner:

relevant and more personal, so that people actually engage with

Jamie Turner:

the brand on a deeper level, and then convert at a higher rate,

Jamie Turner:

because you're speaking to them and their needs, as opposed to

Jamie Turner:

just speaking to a mass market with a generic ad. So it's all

Jamie Turner:

about personalizing. And then the fascinating stuff is being

Jamie Turner:

able to follow you through the sales funnel. Wow, we're

Jamie Turner:

protecting your privacy, which is the other big issue people

Jamie Turner:

have is, hey, I don't want you following me around. Well, good

Jamie Turner:

news is there's techniques we use in order to make sure that

Jamie Turner:

we're protecting your privacy.

Guy Powell:

Well, two things there. One is, you know, as you

Guy Powell:

were talking, I could see potentially, where you take like

Guy Powell:

somebody's Fitbit, and I don't know, if you have had if you'd

Guy Powell:

have access directly to that. But yeah, you can say, you know,

Guy Powell:

somebody is always running around the lake or something

Guy Powell:

like that. Or they're running in the city, or they're doing, you

Guy Powell:

know, 20 Miles versus two or three miles or maybe 100 feet,

Guy Powell:

like what I would do and because I just want to look cool in

Guy Powell:

those running shoes, so and that level of hyper targeting is I

Guy Powell:

really makes a lot of sense. And, you know, when you think

Guy Powell:

about it, that's what marketing is all about is how do you get

Guy Powell:

the right message to the right time at the right, you know,

Guy Powell:

with the right offer and what have you. So

Jamie Turner:

yeah, in fact, you know, now third party cookies

Jamie Turner:

are going away. So it's a little bit we're having to use first

Jamie Turner:

party data and we'll we can get into that in a minute on in

Jamie Turner:

order to, to hyper target you but if this were two or three or

Jamie Turner:

four years ago, we would literally be able to follow your

Jamie Turner:

smartphone around and see where you've been and literally go oh,

Jamie Turner:

there Doing this loop every weekend around the lake. And so

Jamie Turner:

we know that there are a trail runner and things like that.

Jamie Turner:

That's harder to do because understandably so, Google,

Jamie Turner:

Apple, everybody's starting to go in and say we want to protect

Jamie Turner:

privacy. So there are other ways that we can get data while still

Jamie Turner:

protecting your privacy. And then and then use that in order

Jamie Turner:

to market to you.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, let's talk about privacy. In a little bit

Guy Powell:

later. Let me ask a couple of questions. In the meantime,

Guy Powell:

yeah, one thing that's pretty critical and came out of your

Guy Powell:

book, as well, and just to make sure we're kind of on the same

Guy Powell:

page is, tell us about what an identity graph is, so that you

Guy Powell:

can differentiate my cell phone where or, or aggregate my cell

Guy Powell:

phone and my TV and whatever else?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, so an identity graph is basically, we

Jamie Turner:

have all this data, and it's all floating out there, and we can

Jamie Turner:

access it. But we're unable unless you create a profile,

Jamie Turner:

you're unable to really use that data. So what we do is we start

Jamie Turner:

going in and tying data together. So we we we basically

Jamie Turner:

know, ultimately, we can kind of track you around the internet,

Jamie Turner:

digitally by your digital footprint that everybody on the

Jamie Turner:

planet is doing no matter what anyway. And then we start tying

Jamie Turner:

that data together. And we go, oh, this, this person in guy

Jamie Turner:

Powell is on Facebook here. And we also see him on Snapchat over

Jamie Turner:

off of his phone, let's tie that data together so that we can

Jamie Turner:

start building up this profile about this person and get a an

Jamie Turner:

identity graph that helps us understand who they are, what

Jamie Turner:

they're about what their propensities are, what their

Jamie Turner:

likes, what their needs, what their wants are. And that brings

Jamie Turner:

up a question a lot of people have, which is, which is, you

Jamie Turner:

know, wow, there's all this data out there. The data has been out

Jamie Turner:

there since the mid 1960s. Really, we've been taking data

Jamie Turner:

to market to you since that period in time. What we've done

Jamie Turner:

now that makes it a little more comforting is that we are taking

Jamie Turner:

that data and anonymizing it so that we're not tracking you down

Jamie Turner:

as much as we're tracking data sets down. So let me restate

Jamie Turner:

that, again, just because it's an important point. For those of

Jamie Turner:

us who are interested in privacy, our privacy from the

Jamie Turner:

1960s on was sort of public domain. And so we could find out

Jamie Turner:

as early as 1965, where you went on vacation, what car you drive,

Jamie Turner:

where you bank, you know, what what, you know, gas company use

Jamie Turner:

all that sort of stuff that data was out there. The difference

Jamie Turner:

between that where we were using that to use direct mail to

Jamie Turner:

target you, is now we're using digital mail and digital

Jamie Turner:

techniques to target you. But we're also having that data

Jamie Turner:

stored at separate entities so that we can protect your

Jamie Turner:

privacy, because Nike, Apple, Toyota, any company out there

Jamie Turner:

does not want to be the next Cambridge Analytica, as we all

Jamie Turner:

know, Cambridge analytical went in and use this data for

Jamie Turner:

purposes that people were upset with all the big brands out

Jamie Turner:

there saying whoa, we don't want that to happen to us. So they're

Jamie Turner:

making sure that they're using these third party companies to

Jamie Turner:

aggregate the data and anonymize it so that we can then go out

Jamie Turner:

and use these datasets to target people.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, like your, your analogy, and also the fact

Guy Powell:

that our data is, whenever that was in the 60s, I guess, when

Guy Powell:

they were IBM punchcards. And then it became a little bit more

Guy Powell:

Yeah, just a kid but that that data was out there. It was out

Guy Powell:

there. I could look up, you know, do a background check on

Guy Powell:

somebody or whatever and do a search and, and Guy Powell would

Guy Powell:

come up and, and I do come up I'm dead. By the way. I've got a

Guy Powell:

cemetery plot out in Nebraska. Yes, but I'm there. So

Jamie Turner:

yeah, that's funny. I did you know, it's

Jamie Turner:

speak at events all over the place. And I was in one and I

Jamie Turner:

said to the crowd, you know, your data was your, your privacy

Jamie Turner:

was gone in 1965. And I did have somebody come up afterwards and

Jamie Turner:

they were not happy about that statement. And and you know, I'm

Jamie Turner:

just I'm, I don't shoot the, you know, the delivery person. I'm

Jamie Turner:

just saying a fact, which is, your privacy was gone there.

Jamie Turner:

Now, again, now, companies are aware that this is an issue and

Jamie Turner:

people don't want that. And so they're really bending over

Jamie Turner:

backwards to say, all we want to do is make our ads more relevant

Jamie Turner:

to you. And we found ways to do that. And we don't know actually

Jamie Turner:

who you are. You're just a number to us. We don't know

Jamie Turner:

that. It's guy Powell, we just know that your number is 775. B

Jamie Turner:

678453. And then that way, we've got all that that number, and

Jamie Turner:

then that's one of the ways that we protect your privacy.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, and would seem like, because I run into some

Guy Powell:

friends, and I tell them, I'm in marketing and, and they say, oh,

Guy Powell:

yeah, I turn my location services off. And I do this, and

Guy Powell:

I do that. Tell us a little bit about what that means in terms

Guy Powell:

of how deep you might be able to go with some people. And you

Guy Powell:

might be able to go deeper with others, and you might not be

Guy Powell:

able to go deep at all with with another group.

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, if you are, if you are a serious privacy

Jamie Turner:

advocate who is dead set against you leaving a digital footprint,

Jamie Turner:

there are things that you can do. You have to you have to work

Jamie Turner:

really hard to do it. The research that I've done, both in

Jamie Turner:

Europe and in the United States says that the people who receive

Jamie Turner:

ads that are more relevant are okay with the data being used

Jamie Turner:

appropriately. Because they understand that in return, what

Jamie Turner:

they're getting his relevancy in ads that are meaningful to them,

Jamie Turner:

and they're not having to see ads that are not meaningful to

Jamie Turner:

them, and all that sort of stuff. So two key points there.

Jamie Turner:

One is, if you end up wanting to be have a have zero digital

Jamie Turner:

footprint, you can try and do the best you can you're going to

Jamie Turner:

spend most of your day, trying to avoid that, that's fine. If

Jamie Turner:

that's how you choose to spend your time, that's fine. But the

Jamie Turner:

data that we've done, and we did, again, research in Europe,

Jamie Turner:

as well as the United States, and that that research came back

Jamie Turner:

saying, Hey, as long as you're careful with it, and as long as

Jamie Turner:

you're clear to me, and as long as you explain what you're

Jamie Turner:

doing, then we're going to be okay with it. So we are able to

Jamie Turner:

use that kind of data in order to follow you and hyper target

Jamie Turner:

you and things like that.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're, I think there's

Guy Powell:

there's quite a bit that can be done, whether you're really

Guy Powell:

really strong with it. But and then, like you said, you really,

Guy Powell:

I think you have to work very, very hard to be totally off the

Guy Powell:

grid, so to speak, and yeah, have a cell or not have a cell

Guy Powell:

phone, or maybe you don't have a you know, I don't know what you

Guy Powell:

have, but it'd be really tough. Let's look through though an

Guy Powell:

example. Let's say that I, I sell jeans, and I'm a marketer

Guy Powell:

for jeans. And here, I want to go now from being a traditional

Guy Powell:

mass marketer, to then saying, we want to transition over to

Guy Powell:

one to one marketing and jeans, generally, they're sold maybe or

Guy Powell:

purchased maybe four times a year by younger women from about

Guy Powell:

19 to maybe 2530 years of age. And, and so walk us through kind

Guy Powell:

of how you as now the CMO or marketing director would now go

Guy Powell:

from being a linear advertiser over to being a one to one.

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So it's worth

Jamie Turner:

exploring a couple of definitions that are going on

Jamie Turner:

out there and a little bit of confusion. People hear that

Jamie Turner:

cookies are going away. But the reality is, is that third party

Jamie Turner:

cookies are going away, first party cookies are staying there,

Jamie Turner:

the distinction being third party cookies are where their

Jamie Turner:

companies have collected data about you and use third party

Jamie Turner:

cookies to figure out who you were and all that sort of stuff.

Jamie Turner:

Apple has stepped in and Google and everybody else is going in

Jamie Turner:

and saying we don't want to play in that game. We want to respect

Jamie Turner:

people's privacy. But if you are a person who goes to the jeans,

Jamie Turner:

the blue jeans company, and signs up for their newsletter,

Jamie Turner:

or visits their website, that's first party data that we're

Jamie Turner:

collecting about you. Now we have this first party data that

Jamie Turner:

we can then go in and say, okay, cool. We know that this person

Jamie Turner:

visited our website or engaged with us in some way, shape, or

Jamie Turner:

form, that's first party data that we can now use to enhance

Jamie Turner:

that data, and figure out how to build a more robust profile of

Jamie Turner:

that person. So there's still data out there that we can now

Jamie Turner:

attach to our first party data and get a more holistic view of

Jamie Turner:

who you are and what you're about. Once we've done that, we

Jamie Turner:

can then now use that data in order to hyper target ads to you

Jamie Turner:

and do a better and better job hyper targeting those ads. And

Jamie Turner:

even if again, that person goes into the blue jeans store and

Jamie Turner:

buys those blue jeans at that store, then we're able to tie

Jamie Turner:

that data together and say they bought it now here's where it

Jamie Turner:

falls apart. So it's not perfect. And it's not pristine

Jamie Turner:

here where it falls apart is if you go into Macy's and use your

Jamie Turner:

Visa card to buy that pair of blue jeans, we can't figure that

Jamie Turner:

out. Because it's because you get a bill from Macy's, it just

Jamie Turner:

says you went into Macy's last week and bought a bunch of stuff

Jamie Turner:

in our clothing department. And it doesn't get down to that

Jamie Turner:

level of detail. So on the bricks and mortar side of the

Jamie Turner:

equation, it really has to be at that that brands retail outlet.

Jamie Turner:

So Apple computers would know that you bought the Apple

Jamie Turner:

computer after they sent you the stuff. The gap, if you are

Jamie Turner:

marketing, if you're the CMO for the gap, and you're going in and

Jamie Turner:

marketing to people who might blind blue jeans and all that

Jamie Turner:

sort of stuff, and then they buy it at the gap. They're able to

Jamie Turner:

look at that data and do it. So it's not perfect, but in certain

Jamie Turner:

cases, it gets very, very good.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. But what

Guy Powell:

do you think when you're saying pristine? Versus let's say, you

Guy Powell:

know, 100% coverage versus not? What do you think the the lack

Guy Powell:

of pristineness? Might be? Is that like a 5%? Is it like a

Guy Powell:

20%? Or?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, it so that the example I often use a couple

Jamie Turner:

of things that to think about when it comes to One to One

Jamie Turner:

marketing, in its simplest form, one to one marketing, and I'm

Jamie Turner:

gonna, I'm gonna go over some I'm not oversimplify it, but I'm

Jamie Turner:

gonna say there's there's kind of levels of one to one

Jamie Turner:

marketing. The very basic level is something we've all been

Jamie Turner:

doing for a long time, which is email marketing, somebody signs

Jamie Turner:

up for your newsletter, if I if I, if I am. So let me give you

Jamie Turner:

an example, I'm going to jump back to the running shoe

Jamie Turner:

example. Because it's just easy. And it's top of mind for me, if

Jamie Turner:

I'm the CMO of Nike, I go and I say, hey, we have people who

Jamie Turner:

sign up for our E newsletter, we know that certain people always

Jamie Turner:

click on the running shoe cat links, we know other cat

Jamie Turner:

segments, always click on the basketball shoe links, we can

Jamie Turner:

learn about our we can use our first party data, that pristine

Jamie Turner:

data and go oh, this is a segment of our customers who are

Jamie Turner:

runners in this segment where people like to play basketball,

Jamie Turner:

that's cool. Now we can start using that segmentation, in

Jamie Turner:

order to personalize the marketing to them and get more

Jamie Turner:

and more Sufis are more and more specific to them. That kind of

Jamie Turner:

marketing has been around for a long time. I mean, ever since

Jamie Turner:

email marketing was invented, and people get more and more

Jamie Turner:

sophisticated about it. But then we can start using it as a way

Jamie Turner:

to drill down and get more and more specific. And then we can

Jamie Turner:

tie that data together with other data that's out there and

Jamie Turner:

start using that, again, to get a little bit more nuanced in our

Jamie Turner:

marketing to the people. So it's taking our first party data, and

Jamie Turner:

then enhancing it with other data that's out there. And using

Jamie Turner:

that as a way to build a customer profile that's more and

Jamie Turner:

more nuanced, and more and more specific and more and more rich

Jamie Turner:

in organic and meaningful to the customers, because we've been

Jamie Turner:

able to take that data and use it so that that kind of is a

Jamie Turner:

another good example of how to how to use it on a more specific

Jamie Turner:

basis.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of

Guy Powell:

sense. I guess there's one, there's two things that kind of

Guy Powell:

come to mind. One, though, is, you know, as you get more

Guy Powell:

specific, you've got to have more highly targeted messaging

Guy Powell:

or maybe even creative, it's clearly going to pay off more.

Guy Powell:

But you know, when you get more creative, when you get more

Guy Powell:

targeted, targeted, I've always found that it is always you get

Guy Powell:

a much higher conversion rate. So you know, advertising to the

Guy Powell:

marathon runners versus the the 100 foot runners, then that,

Guy Powell:

that makes a lot of sense.

Jamie Turner:

Let me jump in on that. Because he said exactly

Jamie Turner:

this something that's exactly right, which is, the more hyper

Jamie Turner:

targeted you get, the more expensive it is. But the more

Jamie Turner:

you convert, but the starting point for any extremely

Jamie Turner:

sophisticated and robust one to one campaign should be products

Jamie Turner:

that are expensive, that have a lot of profit margin in there.

Jamie Turner:

So a car is a great example. Toyota knows that, hey, when we

Jamie Turner:

sell a car, we have, I don't know what it is 567 $1,000 of

Jamie Turner:

profit built into that. So we can go in and get a very

Jamie Turner:

sophisticated one to one marketing campaign that would

Jamie Turner:

use addressable TV addressable TV is different from broadcast

Jamie Turner:

TV addressable TV is I know this person. And I know that that

Jamie Turner:

person bought their car five years ago, and that they usually

Jamie Turner:

buy cars once every five years. So now I know I'm going to start

Jamie Turner:

advertising Did that person because I get this other data

Jamie Turner:

that's out there. And I know it's coming up on the five year

Jamie Turner:

mark, they buy about every five years. So I'm going to start

Jamie Turner:

using addressable TV to target them with my Toyota ad campaign,

Jamie Turner:

that's expensive. If you're selling an inexpensive widget

Jamie Turner:

for 20 bucks, you don't have that kind of profit margin built

Jamie Turner:

into there, it's going to be better to just stick with mass

Jamie Turner:

marketing, because it's cheap and efficient, all that sort of

Jamie Turner:

stuff. But the higher price and the more profit margin you have,

Jamie Turner:

the more hyper targeted you can get, because you've got money to

Jamie Turner:

play with there. So in the end, if you are a selling a low end

Jamie Turner:

product, that is that is 20 bucks, your best version of one

Jamie Turner:

to one marketing is going to be your e newsletter and using

Jamie Turner:

marketing automation, because it's cheap and inexpensive, in a

Jamie Turner:

way to kind of use these techniques to personalize and

Jamie Turner:

make sure it's done. But if you have a product that is $50,000,

Jamie Turner:

or $20,000, or even $1,000, and you've got some wiggle room on

Jamie Turner:

your profit margin, or even you know, you might even be getting

Jamie Turner:

into the $500 range, you can then have enough profit margin

Jamie Turner:

built in where you can hyper target it and really use one to

Jamie Turner:

one to its greatest use.

Guy Powell:

Well, I would add a little bit to that. And that is

Guy Powell:

you know, when you think about in, in college, we all studied

Guy Powell:

economics, and we had this supply and demand curve and they

Guy Powell:

kind of crossed in the X Yeah, I think that you could probably do

Guy Powell:

something very similar. So that as the value of the your product

Guy Powell:

goes down, you have less money to spend, which means you're

Guy Powell:

hyper targeting is maybe not so hyper for the smaller value

Guy Powell:

products. Whereas for the bigger ones, it's much more you're

Guy Powell:

you're on the other side of the curve, where you can get super,

Guy Powell:

super hyper targeted. And then as the as the profit margins or

Guy Powell:

whatever go down, then you you got to get less and less hyper

Guy Powell:

targeted. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that's exactly what

Guy Powell:

happens. And so instead of pulling in all these different

Guy Powell:

data sets and making this really cool thing going on, you know,

Guy Powell:

you you limit how many data sets you pulled in, and then you

Guy Powell:

limit the cost for that that hyper targeting. Yeah,

Guy Powell:

absolutely. Well

Jamie Turner:

said. And the minute you got into charts and

Jamie Turner:

economics, I started to doze off again, just because that's what

Jamie Turner:

I did in college,

Guy Powell:

you ROI guy. Thinking charts, what are you

Guy Powell:

talking about? Right?

Jamie Turner:

You were you were the one on the front row who

Jamie Turner:

paid attention, and I was the one on the back row going, Oh,

Jamie Turner:

my God, they're getting into math here. But But no, well,

Jamie Turner:

well said and well articulated. I think that was that was

Jamie Turner:

terrific.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah, thank you. You know, and that's and

Guy Powell:

that, you know, I'm a numbers guy. And, and, and what I really

Guy Powell:

liked about the whole concept, and I love the title and

Guy Powell:

audience of one is that it really just makes so much sense.

Guy Powell:

And you know, to your point, you know about the ROI for me, man,

Guy Powell:

if I can target down to that person and make it profitable?

Guy Powell:

Wow, there's no question that you're gonna win, no question

Guy Powell:

that you're gonna win?

Jamie Turner:

Well, here's an interesting thing about the book

Jamie Turner:

and the writing of the book. And it was part of the reason we're

Jamie Turner:

getting in, I'm not trying to brag, but we're getting really

Jamie Turner:

great feedback from people who say, this is an easy to read

Jamie Turner:

book about a complex subject. And what happened is, is Chuck,

Jamie Turner:

my co author is one of the smartest people I know. And, and

Jamie Turner:

he is the kind of person who can very quickly get very technical,

Jamie Turner:

technical. And I kept saying to him, Chuck, that think about

Jamie Turner:

this business book. This is something where we have people

Jamie Turner:

sitting in bed at night, who are reading a book. And it's not,

Jamie Turner:

it's not a novel, it's about business. So they're already

Jamie Turner:

pissed off at us, because they're reading having to read a

Jamie Turner:

business book when they're going to bed. We better make this

Jamie Turner:

interesting to read and easy to read and fun to read. So we

Jamie Turner:

literally, and I'm not trying to say that we were talking down to

Jamie Turner:

anybody. But I said, this has to be a book that a senior in high

Jamie Turner:

school could read and understand. Otherwise, we're

Jamie Turner:

going to get technical, and people are going to close the

Jamie Turner:

book, put it by their bed stand and it's going to be just like

Jamie Turner:

80% of all business books aren't finished. It's going to be not

Jamie Turner:

finished and then we don't get the past long value won't get

Jamie Turner:

people saying hey, what a great book. So we very, very

Jamie Turner:

specifically made sure we wove in stories. We talked a lot

Jamie Turner:

about how to do it in ways that was that were interesting and

Jamie Turner:

fun to read. So so so it's just kind of interesting because you

Jamie Turner:

again, you're a genius. You're smart. I you know, had you teach

Jamie Turner:

classes for me and stuff like that. I'm like, Boy, I wish I

Jamie Turner:

knew half of what guy Powell knows. We were saying guy is not

Jamie Turner:

our target market. Our target market is the marketing

Jamie Turner:

director, who is you know, sitting around reading a book at

Jamie Turner:

night and wants to be kind of entertained, kind of brought

Jamie Turner:

along but also walk away with a lot of knowledge. So it's It's a

Jamie Turner:

fun easy book to read. And that's the feedback we've been

Jamie Turner:

getting when when you read the Amazon reviews and things like

Jamie Turner:

that.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, and I, and I'll ditto that it definitely is

Guy Powell:

easy to read. I was telling Jamie, just and I'm getting a

Guy Powell:

little bit off, but I read it on Kindle on my laptop while I was

Guy Powell:

driving back and forth between here in Charlotte and, and I

Guy Powell:

didn't fall asleep, which was a good thing. So

Jamie Turner:

now, wait, just to clarify, I believe when you told

Jamie Turner:

me that story before, you said, there is a feature on Kindle

Jamie Turner:

that you can have it read the book to you. So I just want all

Jamie Turner:

of your listeners know, when guy says I read it on Kindle while I

Jamie Turner:

was driving to Charlotte. He doesn't he means he listened to

Jamie Turner:

it on Kindle. Right? Do I have that? Right?

Guy Powell:

I wasn't I didn't have a one of those, you know,

Guy Powell:

the the the Tesla's so that? I can? You know? Yes, I

Jamie Turner:

was mostly sure I understood.

Guy Powell:

Exactly, exactly. Just a couple of other things

Guy Powell:

that I really appreciate, you know, how you explain, you know,

Guy Powell:

the the targeting or the less than hyper and this or the more

Guy Powell:

than hyper and stuff like that? Do you run out of inventory? Is

Guy Powell:

that does that happen very much? Or were you just, you know, as

Guy Powell:

much as you want to be able to target this, this marathon

Guy Powell:

runner, you just, you just can't find enough of them is Does that

Guy Powell:

happen?

Jamie Turner:

There? No, it not necessarily. Inventory issues

Jamie Turner:

for ads, you know, what, what's available out there can be an

Jamie Turner:

issue. But, but for the most part, there's enough, there's

Jamie Turner:

enough inventory out there that you can do this kind of thing

Jamie Turner:

and be able to do it. But there are there is supply and demand.

Jamie Turner:

So again, when people start seeing, hey, we're getting a lot

Jamie Turner:

of people asking for this ad, the prices start going up and

Jamie Turner:

things like that. So it is it, it is one of those things where

Jamie Turner:

it's a natural supply and demand is out

Guy Powell:

there. Yeah, no, that's a good answer. I really

Guy Powell:

like that makes a lot of sense. We talked about privacy a couple

Guy Powell:

of different times. Is there anything else that we need to

Guy Powell:

mention about that, because in your book, and I really

Guy Powell:

appreciated that was, you know, we're trying to get down as

Guy Powell:

marketers, that's what we want to do is we want to get down to

Guy Powell:

that one guy. So we can make that person or not make

Guy Powell:

influence that person or persuade that person to buy. But

Guy Powell:

on the other hand, you know, we don't want to be overbearing in

Guy Powell:

that and, and I really like the kind of the cat and mouse that

Guy Powell:

you have between, you know, privacy on the one hand and then

Guy Powell:

being able to hyper target on there. Is there anything else

Guy Powell:

you'd like to add about that? Yeah,

Jamie Turner:

the process. A lot of people listening right now

Jamie Turner:

watching are probably going well wait a second, you're you're

Jamie Turner:

talking out of two sides, your mouth, you're saying you're

Jamie Turner:

going to hyper target me, but you don't know who I am? How

Jamie Turner:

does that work? Here's how it works. As I mentioned, when what

Jamie Turner:

what's going on as you're we're collecting data, first party

Jamie Turner:

data, when you visit our website, once we have a data

Jamie Turner:

set, if you have bought a product from us, or fill out a

Jamie Turner:

form on our website, or you know any of those number of things

Jamie Turner:

where we can collect that data, we now have you saying here's my

Jamie Turner:

data, because I'm filling out this form on your website, what

Jamie Turner:

we do is, then we take that and enhance that data with other

Jamie Turner:

data that exists out there. There's plenty of companies,

Jamie Turner:

whether it's axiom, or Experian, or Equifax, we enhance that

Jamie Turner:

data, get a more robust profile of you. But then what we do is

Jamie Turner:

we create these look alike audiences, we say, hey, we now

Jamie Turner:

know this person likes our running shoes or whatever, go

Jamie Turner:

find more of those people out there. And we get that that is

Jamie Turner:

done with a aggregator that's this third party, they then

Jamie Turner:

assign a number to those data, those pieces of data so that now

Jamie Turner:

while we know who you are, we've now passed it on to somebody

Jamie Turner:

who's going to give us a larger data set of people who look like

Jamie Turner:

you and have your interests and behaviors and all that sort of

Jamie Turner:

stuff. And I use that term look like you metaphorically of

Jamie Turner:

course. But it's a it's basically data that has your

Jamie Turner:

your kind of profile for stuff, but then they anonymize that. So

Jamie Turner:

that when we run ads targeting those people, we are running ads

Jamie Turner:

to numbers and statistics, not to individuals where we actually

Jamie Turner:

have access to that. So that's, again, something that why we're

Jamie Turner:

doing it or how we're doing it to make sure that we're

Jamie Turner:

protecting your privacy as we go through the process.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah, makes sense. I just hope there's not

Guy Powell:

that many people that look like me out there. Yes,

Jamie Turner:

me too. It'd be it'd be an ugly world. You and

Jamie Turner:

me it would be

Guy Powell:

awful. Yeah, that's for sure. We're doing this

Guy Powell:

video, but I kind of consider myself having a face for radio.

Guy Powell:

So yeah. Right. That's why the podcasts are so popular. Yeah.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah. So well, that that is really fantastic. I think,

Guy Powell:

you know, it makes A lot of sense, you know, you're talking

Guy Powell:

about one to one marketing, trying to almost hyper target

Guy Powell:

down to that audience of one. And really, really make sense.

Guy Powell:

Is there anything else you'd like to leave the audience with?

Guy Powell:

Before we close?

Jamie Turner:

Yeah, um, the the fun part about the book is that

Jamie Turner:

if you are, no matter where you are, in marketing, if you're

Jamie Turner:

just getting started in marketing, or if you're a

Jamie Turner:

seasoned, experienced marketer, it's designed for you, it goes

Jamie Turner:

through things relatively quickly, so that it recaps,

Jamie Turner:

here's how to market to people, all that sort of good stuff,

Jamie Turner:

tell some fascinating stories about where this is all headed.

Jamie Turner:

Whether it's Disney, or Airbnb, or Nike, or any of the people

Jamie Turner:

who are using it, we're, we're talking about the stories and

Jamie Turner:

why they're doing it and how it's relevant for the people who

Jamie Turner:

are on the receiving end of it. But it's a fun read, if you are

Jamie Turner:

interested in downloading a free chapter, you just pay, I just

Jamie Turner:

want to download a free chapter, see if I like it, you can go to

Jamie Turner:

audience of one dot website, and one is spelled out. So its

Jamie Turner:

audience of one website, and visit the website and check it

Jamie Turner:

out. You can download it there, and we'll give you everything

Jamie Turner:

you need on that front. So but but that that's where people can

Jamie Turner:

find out more. And then of course, it's in bookstores

Jamie Turner:

everywhere all find bookstores, and a lot of not so fine

Jamie Turner:

bookstores, but but you'll find it in Amazon Barnes and Noble

Jamie Turner:

Books a Million just everywhere. And I'd encourage people to go

Jamie Turner:

to their independent booksellers, because we're also

Jamie Turner:

an independent bookstores as well and enjoy supporting them

Jamie Turner:

as much as we possibly can.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, fantastic. And yeah, I was gonna mention that

Guy Powell:

as well audience of one dot website, and, and that there is

Guy Powell:

a free download on there. Well, Jamie, thank you so much. It's

Guy Powell:

always great, you know, talking to you and just learning, you

Guy Powell:

know, what your, what you've been doing and, and really

Guy Powell:

appreciate the book and I did really enjoy it. And, and, and

Guy Powell:

understand, you know, this really good topic, and it did

Guy Powell:

help to educate me at the next level of detail, especially how

Guy Powell:

linear versus or mass media works versus one to one

Guy Powell:

targeting really makes a lot of sense. And I think you're right,

Guy Powell:

it really is something that can be used almost for any size

Guy Powell:

marketer in any size campaign, it's just really gets down to

Guy Powell:

how detailed you can you can target somebody and and so if

Guy Powell:

you've got the money of the Toyotas then you can you can get

Guy Powell:

pretty far if you've got the the money, like you know the rest of

Guy Powell:

us then you know, you won't be able to get as far but

Guy Powell:

nevertheless, this concept of in this audience of one book of one

Guy Powell:

to one marketing is pretty critical. So definitely visit

Guy Powell:

audience of one dot website. And there's a lot of good stuff out

Guy Powell:

there. I was out there the other day and as Jamie says you can

Guy Powell:

download a sample chapter. And otherwise please stay tuned for

Guy Powell:

many other videos on this series of the backstory of marketing.

Guy Powell:

And please visit pro relevant.com and sign up for

Guy Powell:

more episodes and the podcast series. Thank you very much