Say goodbye to feeling inauthentic. Toss out the scripts that make you sound like you got stuck in the 1990s. Kick fear to the curb when asking for the sale. Liz Wendling shares with me how to create a more effective and non-salesy way to sell and generate more leads, clients and profit.

She is straightforward, practical and sassy! She even used one of my messages to show how I was not doing myself justice with my prospect – and showed me how to improve on it. Wasn’t expecting to be the example of the “wrong approach” – but took it like a trooper.

If you’re looking for inspiration that leads to action, Liz is your person. She knows how to transform professionals into wildly successful sales rock stars! Hang on to your hats!

You can reach Liz at:

Learn more about Liz: https://www.lizwendling.com/

Email her at: liz@lizwendling.com

In this episode you will learn:

• How to avoid being salesy and pushy
• Language's impact on sales
• The significance of strategic and continuous follow-up
• Follow up is a process, it's not an event
• Framing your first message in Linkedin that will not sound salesy and generic
• How to be authentic and real
• How relevance and value hold more weight than traditional relationship-building alone in modern sales

A little about me:

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected.

In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of gifts for you.

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile: https://www.janiceporter.com/linkedin-training.html

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by sending a FREE greeting card (on me): www.sendacardeverytime.com

Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

https://www.facebook.com/JanicePorterBiz

https://twitter.com/janiceporter

Join our Relationships Rule community on FB here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/relationshipsrule/

Thanks for listening!

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Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of relationships rule. I'm very excited to have as a guest

today, Liz Wendling. Liz I met. Wow, I think through some

connection book we were in, or

was it a book Summit? It was the summit Mary.

Yeah, that's

right. Yes. And I make it a point of finding all

those keen people, key people that were part of the event or

the summit or the book or whatever, and connecting with

them. And when I came across the list, I found a goldmine. I was

so excited to meet Liz, and so glad that you're here. Liz,

welcome to the show.

Thank you, Janice. Let's do it. Yes, absolutely.

So Liz, I just want to tell my audience a

little bit, because this is where we're going to dig right

in. Liz is a nationally recognized speaker, a sales

consultant and author of six books. Her two most recent are

the heart of authentic selling, and sell without selling your

soul. That one is specifically for women in business. And we'll

get into that in a little bit. Liz is driven by the mantra,

it's not what you sell. It's how you sell that matters. And I

love that because here we all are women, man doesn't matter.

We're entrepreneurs or business owners were even in a career

sales, you know it for corporations. Doesn't matter

what we do we have to sell. But that seems to be the most hated

thing that people want, you know, have to do. So sorry about

that. So tell me, Liz, how do you turn people around? Why is

that the most hated thing? What is it?

Well, it's always because someone has a negative

mindset around that no different than someone that says diets

don't work, love, relationships don't work, all men suck all

women suck. It's a mindset. And I most of the time, people will

say to me, I love what I do. But I hate to sell, I love my work,

but I hate to sell. And every time I hear someone say I love

what I do, but I hate to sell I have them say I love what I do,

but I hate to make money. I love what I do, but I hate money. I

love working with clients, but I just hate money. And and it's

not about going out there and selling people something they

don't need your service or products. Product is an

exchange, you're exchanging your expertise for money. That's how

an orthopedic surgeon gets gets paid, right? And there is. So

there's a point where women especially have to stop hiding

behind the fact that they hate to do something they don't know

how to do. And most of the time, they hate it because of what

they think they have to do to get someone to buy from them. So

they think they've got to push and be aggressive and make

people do things they don't want to do when in fact that's not

selling at all that's being a jerk. And so, when ever I hear

women say I don't want to be salesy. I don't want to be self

serving. And I don't want to be pushy, Janice. I'm hoping we

dive into this today because every time a woman says I don't

want to be self serving pushy, aggressive, they're actually

showing up that way. They actually sound self serving

aggressive salesy and pushy because of the language choices,

they're making. The words they're putting in an email, the

messages they're leaving in a voicemail actually makes them

sound as salesy as it gets. So a lot of people will be surprised

with some of the words and language language that people

use that make them sound like an old school salesperson, the very

thing they want to avoid is what they sound like,

sound like, wow, you know, I'm going to age

myself. But back, back in the day, I used to teach customer

service. And I taught a lot through the I was a trainer at

the local telephone company. And we'd sell big phone systems to

organizations and we would go out and train them on how to use

them. And then the soft skills. I take the receptionist and the

first point of contact in the different departments and I do

phone, conversation, you know, phone courtesy with them. And

back in those days, I used to hear all the time when I

listened to those people answered the phone, they would

say things like, and they were always women, nine, nine out of

10 times say things like I'm sorry, he's not here at the

moment. He's you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I missed you

or I sorry, I missed the call or they're always apologizing. Yes.

They were always making excuses. And that was I realized and

showed those people what they were doing is it was more about

again, their belief or lack of belief in their in themselves in

the power that they had to take action. He's out for lunch right

now. May I take a message not sorry, he's out for lunch. Okay,

can you help me that you know, right, right. Yeah. Have lots of

things. It's the same principle I feel. And think about with the

sales piece of languaging around sales, and not apologizing,

which women do all the time.

He makes men do it too. And it isn't only I'm so

sorry. Think of it this way. I know you're busy. So I won't

take up too much of your time. I know you have a lot on your

plate. So I'll get to the point. I know you have way more going

on than I do. I'm just sitting here trying to make a living and

you're busier than me. It isn't. Yes, it's about the words, but

it's the energy and how it lands on someone. So when you say to

someone, I know you're busy, I won't take up too much of your

time. That isn't for the other person. That is typically for

the person who's using it. You feel like you have to apologize

for doing your job. You feel like you have to say I'm so

sorry, I know you're busy. I'm not because of how you feel

inside you.

That's your, your mindset and your lack of

confidence. Right?

So when someone says I don't want to sound

salesy or self serving, and they say something crappy like that,

I know you're busy. And I won't take up too much of your time.

The person who you just said that to is thinking, all right,

well, you just took up too much of my time with that stupid

saying stop and get to the point. So all this time when

someone says I don't want to do this, what they don't realize is

that it's like playing golf and you say I don't want to go in

the sand trap. Well, your brain only hears go in the sand trap.

So when you say I don't want to sound salesy, and you show up

salesy anyway. So you're not doing yourself any favors

declaring what you don't want to be, let's talk about who you do

want to be and how you do want to show up.

Okay, so can you give me a perfect example of

turning that around and showing up the way you in today's world

the way you would do it?

Well, I would first say Stop apologizing, stop

minimizing yourself, stop putting yourself in a less than

position by apologizing for you being a strong business person,

stop making you look like you're less than everyone else, by

showing up with the energy of I'm less than you, I'm just

trying to get your attention. My time, your time is more valuable

than mine. So I tell people leave it out. Why do you have to

say I know you're busy, I won't take up your time are you I'm so

sorry to bother you, sorry, to be a pest. We'll take that

language out. It doesn't belong in that conversation and step

into the power that you own versus giving away your power in

the first sentence of a phone call. So it doesn't belong

there. Get to the meat of the message. So I am, if you said

something like, I know you're busy. So I won't take up too

much of your time. What if in your head, you said it didn't

come out of your mouth? What would be the next sentence? You

start with the very next sentence. All right. So if you

don't, if you want to get to the point, sorry, you're busy, I

know you're busy. I'll get to the point, well then get the

hair. So the whole idea is then get into the meat of your

message. I can't tell someone what to say. Because I don't

know what they're calling about. But when you call and say,

Janice, I'm glad I caught you. Or oh, Janice, I'm so glad

you're I got you live reason I'm calling is yes. Very right. I

mean, take the not control. You don't want to be controlling,

but you're taking charge of what you're doing. People are busy,

they don't have five seconds to waste on lame language that puts

you in a bad spot. Okay, add up and own it.

I think it's would you agree that it's that

it's fine to say hey, I'm glad you're there. Thanks for taking

my call, or thanks for picking up the phone. I always like that

today because nobody does. And those that do. I appreciate

that. That's so lovely. You know, I want to see now I could

stop myself right away, right? Or I'm calling about or want to

share with you or something like that. Just read into it that I

would assume would be okay. But and

not to use three or four of them. Oh, I'm so glad

you picked up the phone. It's so nice to talk to you. I'm so

like, okay, just pick one and get to the point.

Got it. Okay, so language is really important.

And there are, I've heard you, in some of your videos talk

about that. So many of those trite phrases that we use, and

that are outdated. And I know one of your phrases is to say

when you change your language, you change your results. And

that's a good thing to keep in my head. So. So let's talk about

follow up because now follow up is the same thing. It's whether

you write the email or whether you pick up the phone and leave

a voice message, or however you do it. Do you have a rule of

thumb around how to do that effectively?

Well, I tell people that follow up is not

activity, it's a process you have to look at follow up as a

process in your business. It isn't one activity. Oh, let me

follow up with Jan. No, it's not that. So what I first of all, I

call it the F word because it is you might know that's done you

want to type out I'm just following up treat it as if you

use the real F word. But it isn't only follow up. It's

following up touching base reaching out checking in. We're

talking about 40 years ago, we've been using that same

phrase. And sometimes will say Just following up just touching

base just wanted to try you one more time. Thought I would

follow up but I haven't heard from you. I sent you 17 other

messages. So I always tell people, first of all, strip out

those words strip out following up touching base reaching out

and checking and they don't belong in our conversations.

First of all, you're already doing the act of follow up. Why

do you have to announce I'm going to take an inhale Now

Janet, at Janice. And now I'm going to exhale, Janice, what

you don't have to announce what you're doing. You're breathing?

Just do it. You're following up, just do it. So it's stripping

that out? And understanding that follow up is a continuation of

what you've already started. Right? Isn't that what the what

it really is. And if people are not getting back to you, it has

nothing to do with your message you can send 15 Follow up

messages. If people are avoiding you. What that tells me is that

you missed the mark in your sales conversation, it means

someone doesn't feel connected and confident to get back to

you. You've you did something in the conversation that caused

them to completely disconnect from you and avoid all your

communication. So good. Yeah, I thought

I did have a thought because I'm in a process

right now with somebody who I had a an initial sales call, I

guess. Okay. Yeah. And they they asked lots of questions. They

were looking at, you know, different ways that they could

do this for LinkedIn training. And it's a strange time right

now with July, August, they're in a, I don't want to say who's

busy what business it was. I was just looking at on their

LinkedIn profile their their posts, and they've been busy and

whatever, because I haven't heard back from her. Okay. And I

thought maybe I'll just send a quick message by LinkedIn. And I

don't even know what now what I said. But I would be curious to

know, let's do it. Because maybe I was thinking this, okay. Let's

see if I did. I said, I hope you had a great July 4 celebration,

and that you've survived the crazy weather happening in the

Northeast. And here it is, I thought I'd check back with you

to see if you're still thinking of doing some LinkedIn training

or if you have any questions for me.

Okay, that was in. Okay. All right. All right, a

couple of let's just be transparent, because if I'm

honest with you, someone will learn from it that's full of a

couple of fails inside of that. So okay, I am in unless you

really know someone, first of all, if you and I know each

other now, a couple of weeks. Yeah. I still wouldn't even put

in an email. Hey, Janice. I hope you had a great Fourth of July

weekend. I wouldn't start there. I would end there. That's so

funny,

cuz I had it the other way around. And then I

changed it today.

Because when you say to someone, hey, I hope

you're doing well. Hope. I hope you had a great weekend. I hope

all as well, I hope this email finds you. Well. The recipient

is thinking No, you freaking don't. You are. Do I really

think you sat there and thought, Oh, I hope Liz had a really

wonderful weekend. No, nobody believes that anymore. So I'm

not suggesting you not be nice, Janice. I'm suggesting there's

there's a way to re engineer an email these days. So I would put

that at the end PS I hope you survived. I saw the crazy

weather in the northeast, something like that. But But

here's where i where i i try to dig in first is how did you end

that meeting with this particular person? How what was

the last communication you had with? Let's call her Mary Smith.

Would you say to Mary at the end of that,

I was weird because usually what I do is I

try to book a follow up call with them. Because I felt like

she was definitely in control. And she was saying I'm going to

review all of this over the next while I do have a project and

doing she said but I'm going to review it and I will get back to

you. You know, the kiss of death. I'll get back to you but

that but I didn't think it was over. Okay. And so that's how it

ended.

How do you typically end up? Do you

typically try to get a meeting booked?

Yeah, I typically will say, I don't know what,

what, why I didn't do that, in this particular instance. She

wasn't a typical type of client for me. And so there could have

been something there from my side, internally. But, um, but I

normally will say something like, you know, absolutely,

would it be okay, if we set a time on our calendar, we get so

busy, and I'll just, we'll just do a quick follow up call either

way, doesn't matter, like something to take the pressure

off, but to book the call,

okay. But all the language you just used when you

when you listen to this recording everything you said,

you gave away your power? Would it be okay? Could we get

something on there just to check in just to make sure you stay

connected clients.

So this is the kind of stuff Janice and I

appreciate you being a model and showing that I know you and I

know you're a kind lady, and I know you're only trying to keep

that momentum going. But here's where that language, we take all

the air out of the tires, and then we think the car is going

to go somewhere. Okay, frame it for me. So it sounded like when

you were describing this person, she was asking all of the

questions versus you. Okay, so let, she might have just been

one of those people that had no interest in doing business with

you. Someone who's interested answers questions, because

you're the driver, the you're the person.

He did ask what? Oh, okay. All right. It was a

back and forth. And she had her social media guy on the call.

All right, yeah. So then I personally would have

handled it a little differently. And it's what I teach my clients

is at the end of the meeting, asking to book a next meeting is

a little, there's a little pressure in that. That's making

me behave on your timeline. Versus you behaving on mine, the

buyer? Yeah. So when so? To me, it sounds that languaging is a

little outdated. Everybody will say, Oh, you got to book that

next meeting. Don't leave one call without the next one. All

right, if it was still 9995, I'd say all right, that's perfect.

We're not anymore. Okay. So it is. So remember, follow up is a

process. It's not an event, you treat it like an event. So I

would say, if let's I'm going to channel that woman that you are

on the phone with, I might say, Janice, I appreciate your

honesty, and you're going to review everything. And it's you

know, it's nice to know you're looking at some options, and I

appreciate your communication. How would you like us to stay in

communication now? This is you on the phone or a zoom call with

someone collaborating around follow up, not you saying, hey,

I want to get you on my calendar, so I can try to sell

you a little more. And I know that's not what you said. But

that's what they heard.

Yes, yes. I love that. Okay, Mike has to move

forward.

So if I said to you, hey, Janice, I know you're

gonna get crazy. I'm gonna get crazy. We're in that July August

timeframe where people are on vacation. What what do you want

us to do next? What's the next step? Let me tell you versus you

telling me, the buyer is I don't want you to completely give up

the control to the buyer. But I want you to be collaborative. I

want everyone to think that this is a we situation, not me trying

to tell you what, here's what I want. I want to talk. Yeah,

that's awesome. And you will, and when the language does get

changed. So when I say change your language, change your

results. It is amazing when I get in there, and I work with

someone and we shift all the language and then they'll say to

me, holy crap, plus, I sent one, one message and that person got

right back to me. Or it only took two tries to get ahold of

this person. Or I've emailed this person 10 times and they're

not responding. And then I give them some language to kind of

kick up the dust again. And they're like, Oh, my God, that

person got right back to me. But you sound like everyone else

inside their inbox. Everyone else sounds a lot like the

message you left. Everyone says, just checking in following up

touching base. You're ready to get started. I know we talked

about that. It isn't enough to get people to keep the momentum

going.

Can I can I save her? Can I salvage this? If she

doesn't answer me?

Yeah, you might be able to go back and say to her,

said there was no problem in that email, meaning you didn't

say to her, you and I talked about the potential of XY and Z.

You mentioned you were struggling with this or wanted

some help around that. I don't know if that's still a priority

or still on your radar. But it lets either to keep the momentum

going or figure out what the next step looks like if there is

a next step. So there's a lot more, there's just more ways to

engage someone than your basic boring, bland, vanilla generic

and outdated, same old, lame old language of just following up.

Perfect. I fell right into your trap. And it's

perfect.

Thank you. Thank you for showing everybody that

this is not intuitive. This is not this is why people call me

and say I need a makeover. I need your sales clinic, I need

to be in your messaging makeover. And once you do it and

fix it, you never need me again. That's the best part. You

gonna say? So tell me tell me how you feel

about Do you ever do LinkedIn messaging for working messages

on LinkedIn? That kind of thing? Like a

prospecting message? Yes, absolutely. All

the time? Yes.

Okay. So, obviously, none of us want to be

pitched. So we don't want the first message to be a pitch,

right? And it happens all the time. And it happens all the

time, then we've got some people who, okay, it's, it's the the

complete opposite, where it's just that that generic, you

know, let's book you know, nice to meet you. Let's book a call

and see how we can help each other on LinkedIn or whatever.

It was expanding my LinkedIn thing, and you know, you came up

and and then I, so do you ever do something like this, and I

haven't done this, but I want to just test the waters with this.

So where you've done a search, you found a group of people that

you would like to try and connect with in terms of their,

their job function, or their, their business or their

location, whatever the filters are, that you want, and you

found a group of people. Now you start on your outreach, I always

check. Because I teach LinkedIn, I taught I teach people to look

at that person's profile to see number one, if they're active.

Number two, if it feels like it might be a fit, and you want to

pursue it. So now the first message goes out. So would you

ever do something like this? Let's say my, my, my audience

are all business consultants. Okay, there. Yeah, so let's say

I've created a an ebook around how business consultants can use

LinkedIn with my tips or something like that. So my first

message now, I would say you have to connect first.

Let's assume you're connected. So

in some format, some form of saying, you know,

would you be interested in in my top 10 tips for using LinkedIn

as a business or growing your business on LinkedIn as a

business consultant? If so, just say, yes, I'd be happy to send

it to you, something like that. Does that seem pitchy? A little

bit

the term would you be interested,

you know, like that. Right?

That is that screams. salesy. Yeah. Would you

be interested if I could show you a way to save money on your

car insurance? So without getting into a full blown

training here, that's, that is a way to get in and asking them to

reply back is better than just dropping it in there. And

I'm looking for a way to to qualify people, right?

They obviously say, yes, they're interested. They're more

interested in that, you know, that at least you can send it to

them. And, but I'm just wondering if that approach is

still salesy. So instead of would you be interested? How

would you frame it?

Well, it would be a whole rewrite of that email,

because, first of all, why them? What's inside these 10 tips that

I couldn't go google or Go to chat? GPT what is it in your

stuff that's unique or different or insightful? So there's,

there's has to be more meat on the bones is the only way that I

can describe it.

And yet the reason I'm asking this is

because I was listening to someone talking about this the

other day on a podcast. One of the things that this person was

saying is that he had a really good first email that he had

used for yours and similar to that, but longer so it had a bit

more meat in it. But it wasn't getting a response today and

that's why he changed it to one sentence type of deal. It is

working. So that kind of brings me to the question of like,

what's different today with with the audience then it was you

know, because you keep saying those are outdated, these things

are outdated. So what, how, what's different today about the

audience and more sophisticated or they

are within their She's so much more skeptical.

their inboxes are bloated, and they're filled with pitches.

They're filled with messages that sound like, Hey, I hope you

had a good weekend. Yeah, it looks like you're a busy

consultant or Oh, you like the color blue soda? Why isn't that

crazy. And then they pitch someone. So there if your

message isn't written, here's the key, written to me, not at

me write a message to me, not at me make it feel like Janice sat

down and wrote it to me, a message that feels like it's

landing in my inbox with intention, not generic, see,

generic just doesn't do it any more. Because of how bloated my

inbox, I could spot an email, that is a sales pitch. Sometimes

even before I log on to LinkedIn, I could feel it coming

through my computer. And too many people don't want to put

the time in and the energy and the thought in and what word

choices feel good to me. Who am I as a business owner? And how

do I want to show up? What do I want to convey? How what

intention do I want to start with, so that my very first

interaction with someone actually starts to build

momentum. So, and I hear this a lot, Oh, I heard on a podcast or

one trainer told me this, or oh, I downloaded a template and it

worked. Somebody made $8 million dollars in five minutes on this

thing. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it works.

It just means it's popular. Okay, just because everybody's

doing it doesn't mean it works. And just because it worked for

one person might not work for you. So this is why people are

spinning their wheels. This is why so many people are hitting

brick walls, whether it's on LinkedIn, or email or any part

of their business, because they're looking for a tactic.

They're looking for that pie in the sky, that one little nugget,

that hack that they could use, versus stepping back far enough

and saying, wait a second, if I'm going to do the work, I'm

going to type out 456 emails to someone. Why don't I first

figure out what I want to convey? What's the intention?

How do I want to keep the momentum going with them? How do

I even send an email that? And I would never suggest anybody say

this, but just to get the meat here is? How do I stop

connecting with someone? If there's nothing there? How do I

let them know that I'm done? I'm pausing our outreach? How do you

talk to someone the way they like to be talked to, versus

sounding like, I'm not trying to sell you anything, when every

word you use makes it sounds like you are. So the

in order to be authentic. And to be real, I

think involves really two sides to that coin. One is that you

the person writing it sending the message has to come from the

heart, they have to be real. The only way I find that I can be

real with someone I don't know, is by paying attention to like

what's on their profile or, or what I've learned about that

person before I reach out so that if I can include something

in my message that shows that I paid attention. Would that be

like 10 times better? Or is it still not still?

Make Janice Think about how many people say, Oh, I

popped on your LinkedIn profile? It looks like again, you were

you written two books, or oh, it looks like we went on the scene

on knowledge. Yeah, okay. That isn't enough anymore. In fact, I

would rather someone leave that out, then use it. Because it

brings me back from eight years ago, it brings me back to the

LinkedIn training that says, find something on their profile,

and mention it. Like that's going to open me up and fillet

me like a fish. And now I'm going to be the favorite person,

your favorite person in the world. It's not enough people,

our whole art. They're on guard. So when you say something like,

oh, I What a great article you wrote last week. All right.

Okay, but that doesn't make me want to know you and if any more

than I do. So

this really because there's people that will

respond and say, basically, they'll respond and say, so I'm

very busy. Basically, what? I can help you with that, right?

And so

those aren't my people. Not only is it not your

people, it tells you you missed the target. Yeah, target

completely. So I appreciate people who do the work, who are

getting on LinkedIn, who are sending outreach who are doing

podcasts who are doing so much of the good meaty stuff in their

business. But I feel bad when they don't take the time to

close the loop. So they're doing all of the good stuff and they

forget that say Sales is a process sales is a conversation.

Sales is a service piece, following up as a is not an

event, it's a process. And how do you button up all your hard

work in the beginning to ensure that somebody even wants to

communicate with you, and then maybe eventually hop on the

phone with you, and then maybe eventually say, hey, Janice,

tell me about your LinkedIn program. And so it's it's

building that momentum. And I know people will say it's all

about relationships, it's all about know, like, and trust, and

I call BS on both. Here's why. It I know a lot of people, I

like a lot of people, and I trust a lot of people. But that

doesn't mean you get a penny of my money. Know, like, and trust

only gets you a ticket to the game. Relevance. And value is

where I'm going to start communicating with you if what

you tell me is relevant to my world, and really will help me

in my business, and there's value in that. I'll give you a

sliver of my time. Other than that, you're getting deleted.

That's it. So it's taking the time, all that time, all that

energy and money, people invest on programs that do fill up a

pipeline, but then will not invest in the piece that I

teach, which is the right language and the right

messaging. So it feels like you are in the in the process with

them not trying to sell them something. And it's hard to

watch Janice it really is it's, it's like you watch people in

the gym, they just ran 20 miles on the treadmill. But then you

go see them and they're at the drive thru at McDonald's eating

for Big Macs, you know, that it's something is wrong with

their workout. They'll say I'm not, I'm not losing any weight.

I don't understand. Well, I just saw you at the drive thru. Same

thing with my clients. They'll say, Listen, I'm doing this, I'm

doing that I have all this in place. And then I asked them my

top 10 favorite questions, and then we figure out oh, you're

going to the drive thru at McDonald's now again. So then,

and only then are they willing to close the loop, finish that

last portion, so that everything they do has has value and

meaning and starts to make money, move the momentum?

So are you then saying though, that it is about

building relationships first or not? No, you're saying not see,

relationships? You're challenging everything I am,

I am counter to everything. Because for 50

years, we heard it's all about relationships. Everything's

about a relationship.

It was more it was more transactional back

then.

Right? But when I hear it's all about

relationships, don't sell, just serve. All those little mantras

mean nothing anymore. People are busy. They they, I don't need a

relationship with everybody I do business with, right. I mean, I

have my kitchen and bathrooms done right? totally remodeled. I

don't need a relationship with the guy who did it all I don't,

I just need you to show me that you're the right person for the

job. And that when someone asked me who did my kitchen and

bathrooms, your name comes up. I haven't talked to the guy in

three years. But we have a working relationship, but not

yet we would people think is Oh, you have to build relationships.

I'm not saying they're not important. Where the

relationship becomes important is when you agree to do business

together. And you treat each other like the human beings we

have the capacity to do. And that's where the relationship

gets solidified. I might know you like and trust you to get

you to talk to you. But I'm going to need some relevance and

some value. That's where the relationship really gets

enhanced. So the pieces on the chessboard have moved. So

anytime you want to throw out a mantra that says it's all about

this, or oh sales are about listening, you know what course

it is? But is that all? It is? No, it's the whole package. So

it's having me the ability to step far enough back and say,

Where do I plug the holes in a new world? That's so different?

And it's plugging those holes. And I bet you have a decade if

you plug the holes, you probably have a decade of runway to

continue to use those. That process.

Hmm, interesting. Okay, so the two most recent

books that you've written, which I mentioned earlier, the heart

of authentic selling, sell without selling your soul, which

one's going to help me the most?

Well, I because you're a woman, I would say go

to sell without selling your soul because it does go into a

lot of what we talked about today. And even the heart of

authentic selling, it really comes down to being a good human

being is really what it comes down to. Now in both of those

books, there's examples there's ways to build value. There's

ways to show people that I'm not here just for the sale, and

actually mean it and it's felt it's not just you saying I'm

authentic. It's being it's so much that somebody else is the

one who says you're so authentic. Yes, it's having

being such a good human being and so good at asking questions

and helping people see the value in your offering. That's when

they say, Janice, how do we get started? Not. Thank you for your

thank you for your information. I'll get back to you.

Yes, I know there recently somebody said to me on

a first call. Wow, you've given me such value already. Yes. You

know, is now the opening, you know, and I loved that. And so

it's paying attention to those kinds of things that work, I

think, yes. Well, I have to say, Liz, you, you challenged me in

more ways than one today, I'm glad that I was able to be the

guinea pig in a way because I'm always open to learning. And I

know, for me, I didn't come up through sales, even though I

know we're always selling. I was a teacher. And so I was a school

teacher than I was a corporate trainer. I never had to sell

anything. All I had to do was go out and show them how to use it.

Right. Right. So I everything I've learned is self taught and

and there's always room for improvement. So thank you, thank

you for sharing your viewpoint and your expertise with us.

You're welcome. And thanks for being coachable

live for everybody to say. Yeah,

absolutely. And I would like to just end with with

one question for you to just leave for my audience is, what

would your top tip for sales be for being the best salesperson

you can be? What would be the best thing that you could leave

with my audience?

Oh, gosh, I guess I'm gonna stay up there with the

topic that we're on is watch your language. Watch what comes

out of your mouth. Watch what you tell yourself, and then what

leaves your lips. If you say to yourself, oh, I don't want to be

salesy, but then you look at your language and you are

salesy. That's a sign right there that you're not congruent

in your language and who you're being and how you're showing up.

And if you don't think your potential clients notice, you're

lying to yourself, they feel it. And when they don't respond to

you, they don't call you back. They don't hire you. They keep

saying, Oh, not yet. It's a sign that something isn't lined up

inter externally and internally. And once you get those, like a

piece of velcro stuck together your internal and external way

of being, it's going to be a little challenging in a world

that's getting more and more challenging to sell every single

day.

Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you, Janice.

And thank you to my audience as usual for being here and

listening. If you liked what you heard, please leave a review and

let us know. And remember to stay connected and be remembered