In this episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders, host Anthony Perl sits down with special guest Steve Dart to talk about LinkedIn brand building. Steve is a Fractional CMO and the Creator of the Brand Salience Factor.

They discuss how to optimise your LinkedIn profile, create a personal brand that rises above AI-generated content, and apply marketing lessons from global brands like Red Bull to your own business. Tune in to learn how to make a lasting digital impact and stand out in today's crowded business landscape.

Listen now and subscribe to "Biz Bites for Thought Leaders" for more essential insights!

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Connect with Steve on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-dart/ 

Check out their website here: buntu.com.au 

Join LinkedIn neXt VIP business professional community of Steve Dart $47 + GST per month

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#leadership #professionalleaders #expertstrategy #podcastshow #podcasting #linkedin

Anthony Perl: LinkedIn Brand

building, how to stand out in

today's digital business landscape.

Welcome to Biz Bites for Thought

Leaders, where we deliver actionable

insights for today's business leaders.

I'm your host, Anthony Pearl, and

today I've joined by Steve Dart, who

is a fractional FMO.

And a creator of the Brand

Salience Factor.

In this episode, you're gonna

discover how to optimize your

LinkedIn presence, build a memorable

personal brand that stands out

from AI generated content, and apply

marketing lessons from global brands

to your business.

Steve shares his journey from Red

Bull to helping businesses create

digital impact.

Of all shapes and sizes for brands

just like yours, Steve Dart is a

very special guest because he has huge

amounts of insights, lots of information

to give you.

Get your pen and paper ready.

Let's get into it.

Hey everyone.

Welcome to Biz Bites for Thought

Leaders, and I am very excited to be

having my guests Steve Dart with me

today because Steve and I have known

each other for a few years now and

got to know one another better and

better all the time.

In fact, we were just sitting in

something yesterday together, so I

thought, why not get him on the program?

Steve, welcome to Biz Bites for

Thought Leaders.

Thank you so much Anthony.

Great to be spending time with you

and we do seem be crossing paths a lot

lately, so you're in those good circles

as well as I am.

It's great to see.

Anthony Perl: Yeah, it's always

interesting, isn't it, that you have

that situation, but we're gonna get into

that in a minute or two I think.

Firstly, I'm gonna allow you to

introduce yourself to everyone.

Wonderful.

I've got a bit of a new title

after working with Steve Broman.

He's an amazing guy.

So I used to be a LinkedIn trainer,

but look, I've got this and I'm I'm

a fractional FMO, which is Freelance

Marketing Officer, and I'm the creator

of the Brand Salience Factor,

and I'll talk about that as we go

through this because Brand Salience is

about building a brand online that's

remembered very quickly through

a purchasing or service.

Conditions.

So I work with people especially

on LinkedIn or who wanna know,

understanding of how to use the LinkedIn

platform, especially the premium

products like Sales Navigator core for

lead generation, but actually build

your brand profile online to be the

number one in the market you serve.

So that's a little bit about what I am.

We are gonna delve into

that in a minute.

But firstly, I've, I would like you

to do a bit of a shout out to Steve.

He's been a guest on the program

in the past.

So those of you that don't know

Steve, check it out.

In a previous episode we'll try

and put a link in the show notes

to that as well.

But let's dive in Steve, because as I

said, you and I go back a little while

and I guess we got to know each other.

The primarily initially through

LinkedIn and a around that.

And I wanted to ask you that as this

kind of a starting point before we go

a little bit more into brand, because

LinkedIn has become, the accepted place

for businesses to hang out.

Is that the best way of describing

what LinkedIn is these days?

'cause it's gone through a

few iterations.

Yeah, look, I had a friend of

mine call me up the other day and said,

you've been on this LinkedIn stuff for

a while now, and it seems like it's all

coming to fruition.

And I said, look, LinkedIn is just

a place where it's a massive my, like

it's a place where people store data,

especially LinkedIn.

And I've always used it as a

communication platform.

And the early situation for me

with LinkedIn is I was on the platform

early when someone sent me a connection

request and I didn't know what it was.

And I built a profile out.

And sorry.

Build a profile out and basically

left the pro, left, left LinkedIn.

I just think I, I had a job.

I was working with Red Bull.

Everything was going good.

I didn't really need to put a

CV up on there.

And then it wasn't until I came back in

2012 where actually saw it was a

different platform.

It looked incredibly different.

So Richard Branson was the first

millionth follow up person on there,

and you could create content.

I was like, wow, this is quite

incredible.

So I actually stayed on the platform and

started building out and used it to

communicate with my other business

professionals lead generation, and just

really storyboarding what I was doing

in the market.

So its iterations has happened over

the last 21 years.

It was just a place you had put your

CV to a place now that you actually

build brand and build profiling

and it's still a recruitment tool and

I understand that.

But you can actually have really good

conversations and a lot of lead

generation activity within the platform.

So yeah, that's how I see it.

Yeah, I think that's the

interesting point for people, isn't

it that posting is one part.

Getting followers is another part,

but ultimately it's about the

conversations, isn't it?

I think people miss the point of that,

that it's lovely to post, it's lovely

to for an ego trip to say, I had x

number of people like, or comment or

share it or whatever it might be.

But that is not much more than an

ego trip, right?

The million followers is nice,

but what does it actually mean?

It's the true engagements,

the one-on-one conversations

that you can have through LinkedIn,

which I think are the most powerful

aspect of it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you know what I love about LinkedIn

is when you connect with someone,

you're giving each other authority

to then talk, to get to each other

on the platform.

You don't have to go to email

or any other kind of communication.

You can actually talk them directly

on the platform and then share

content and that kind of thing.

I love it because it's a place

where business professionals do

go to learn from other business

professionals and better themselves

every day.

And one of the things I love to

see when people are on the platform and

they are getting better and they

are using it as a tool of trade, and

I do call it a tool of trade because

like you have a car or a computer

or anything else that helps you get

through business, LinkedIn should

be seen as that.

I call it the oxygen of business

because it's where business does.

Come to play.

And if you think about it, in the

market we live in, out of all those

seven different apps on your

phone now being Facebook, Instagram,

TikTok, and YouTube and all that,

LinkedIn is where business happens.

Why do they rob banks?

'cause that's where the money is.

And why do you go to LinkedIn?

'cause that's where the people that

are doing business within the social

serving place.

So that's how I look.

Anthony Perl: I want to start

crossing over into brand building and

things as well.

And I think using LinkedIn as a

starting point for that conversation is

a really interesting one because it's

become a playground as well for a lot

of ai and trying to balance that use of

AI and building your brand because they

can be in conflict with one another

if you're not careful about it.

And it's interesting to me that

LinkedIn has.

Really decided to embrace and even

push AI to a large extent as well.

And I wonder if that's to the

detriment of a lot of people and

a lot of brands.

Yeah.

Look, time will tell on that.

I know I'm using AI every day.

I am probably 10 hours in ai.

I use it.

Part of my business activity, one

that I'm in quite often is notebook

L. And that is a fantastic 'cause.

It's an actual resource gathering

where you can actually put your

LinkedIn profile, you can do website

and all your other assets.

And when you prompt engineer it, it's

only pulling from that resource.

That's what I love about that AI tool.

But AI tool, it's one of those things

that, I think that people will discover

it's gonna be a great time saver,

and I think people are discovering

the more that these ai agents

come into play, it's gonna be very

interesting times.

One thing that I'm trying to really

make stand out to most people I speak

to is, you must get your personal brand

out into the market.

Because the way that AI's coming

it's now equaled the playing field

with knowledge.

So our brand and our personal brand

has to really be positioned higher

now, so people would choose us

because of the experience we hold

as a human being.

So I wanna pick

up on something you've

said there as well, because you

referenced personal brand and I think

we are in this really interesting

situation because for a long time

it's been about business brands.

Yeah,

Anthony Perl: it's the personal

brand is very much taken a backseat.

But that seems to have changed again,

that the need to push a personal

brand and trying to find that balance

of where do you have a personal brand?

Where do you have a business brand?

And I know certainly if you go back

a few years.

It was, I remember seeing a statistics

on Facebook and saying that on

average people followed one brand

only, and yet follow hundreds of people.

So it's not a surprise that

personal brand has started to build,

but it's really started to take

some more momentum.

And again, it's that balance on

some, on a platform like LinkedIn,

how much energy do you put into the

business versus the personal one?

What are the risks attached to that?

Yeah, I think it's an end story

there because we know that people

don't buy off logos, they buy off people.

So that's why LinkedIn was formed

to actually put personal profiles

before business company pages.

But I'm seeing a real trust recession

at the moment, as most people

are, and people are really not

trusting of brands as they're not

trusting of people these days as well.

So I think by showcasing

yourself as your authentic self.

On these platforms, all those seven

platforms, and presenting yourself

as the, the way you're putting

yourself into market and that you are

trustworthy and that you're credible,

and that you've got competency.

And that's why I love LinkedIn,

because it's the one stop shop for

displaying all that at one viewpoint is

a big reason why.

You can see people are elevating into

the market because they're micro

nicheing, their skills and talents.

Yes.

And I've been on a lot of

presentations and podcasts recently

talking about LinkedIn because I'm

positioning myself as a knowledge

person on that.

And that's why I'm getting asked to

do a lot more of these presentations

and podcasts.

Anthony Perl: And I've sat in

on some of those presentations and

I know how good you are at that.

And it'd be remiss be not to ask you.

Before we delve a little deeper

into some of the other things what

are the, probably the top three

things that people should be doing on

LinkedIn to really make a difference

at the high level?

What are the areas that they

should focus on?

Yeah, number one, absolutely

publish your profile for your

authentic self.

And then there's what's called an add

to profile button on your profile, which

then extends it out and you can actually

publish your honors and awards.

You can put your, any kind of detail

for projects you've been doing, if

you've got any licensing, and

really populate that so people get an

understanding when they review your

profile, what it is that you've actually

accomplished over the years you've

been working or in that kind

of situation.

So what I have felt with the.

The clients I've worked with is when

I see them in real life and then I look

at their profile and I've spoken to them,

they're completely different.

So I want people to build out their

digital twin from a, a headline that

is representing of how they help

people in market.

Also, a banner image that has their trust

value phrasing or overlay and their

photo to be up to date and current,

and especially.

Positioned as you would meet them

belly to belly.

You don't wanna have something

from 10 years old.

You don't wanna have a profile photo.

It's got glasses.

You're at the races, it's a

professional site.

Make sure you're smiling.

It's warmth.

And people want to really get a

an understanding of you.

They actually form a bias of

you before they even met you by.

So your pro profile is your digital

twin, and if it's relevant and

positions you as the person they'd

love to meet or do business with,

it's a great first stepping stone.

Anthony Perl: Yeah, I think

that the photo is something that is

actually really an interesting one

because when you meet people, whether

it's physically in person or whether

it's gonna be online, invariably

you're checking out their profile

before you go and have that meeting.

And I had one recently where I

had to do a double take because I'm

going, hang on.

The person that I think I'm meeting

because I did see them somewhere

else and their profile photo.

Were so completely different that I

thought it was the wrong person and

it was only when I started digging a

little deeper and going no, this is

the right person.

Then I started looking more

closely at the face and I went,

okay, yes, there's a difference here.

In the, in.

In some of the other features and things,

but the core of it, it is definitely

the right person.

And a shout out to Nancy Za as well

who's also been a guest on the podcast

in the past who I know specializes

in taking a look at people's images

that are there and helping you

identify how best to interact with them.

So it's, it does tell a lot and it's

interesting what you say, how often there

are photographs that are.

Substantially older than it, and when

you start getting to photos that are

10 plus years old, then you should

be going, hang on, this is, what are

you hiding from?

Why aren't you showing a current

professional photograph?

So it is something that's, I think

is an important aspect that is

often overlooked.

Yeah, and one of the things

about LinkedIn, when you actually

sign onto LinkedIn, the algorithm

firstly checks your in contact

info card and it actually scans and

has a look at the details and the

photo to see if it's a current photo.

If you can actually remove your photo,

then upload exactly the same one, it

actually makes you a better time value

of data for LinkedIn because it's

number one client is recruiters,

and if you are a better product

on this and for recruiters to find

you, that's always a good thing in.

In your favor.

So here's a good opportunity to

remove your photo and upload a current

one, and then you get a better time

value of data.

So you're doing two value

exchanges there on the platform.

I wanted to ask you

as well before we leave LinkedIn a

little bit behind, but in ask you

keeping up with.

What's happening on LinkedIn?

It's a very difficult thing.

The algorithm is one thing, and I think

for the longest time people have

been obsessed with how do I, crack

the algorithm, which is constantly

changing and almost impossible to crack.

But I think it's also balancing that

with how do I keep up with what is

the latest features that I should be

cottoning onto?

Is it just.

Fun and nice to have?

Or is it actually making a difference

in, the way you are going to be

found and the banner image and

the change of the changes that have

happened with that in recent times.

Is it probably a good case in

point is are they something that

you go, yes, you have to jump on?

How do you stay on top of what

the latest and greatest is?

'cause it is literally

just following someone like you.

Yeah,

look, I like the way that

LinkedIn has moved.

Look, it is a free site.

It costs nothing to join.

But what it is LinkedIn is

trying to upgrade people into their

premium products.

'cause you get a better experience.

For instance, the banner, rather

than being a static placement,

it actually gives you five

rotating banners.

And that's good for people that

have got multiple things going on

within their work.

Whether it be an event coming up or

they're displaying a couple of jobs

that they do within their, in,

in their current work situation.

So it gives you a better experience

that way.

It gives you a better analytics

when you're sending out connection

requests on a premium product,

you get to send out up to 150

connection requests.

Out to somebody rather, and with a

personalized note, except for the free

version, you only get five a month.

So it's really decreasing its

opportunity with a free version

and extending opportunities and

analytics and the experience for

the user in those premium offerings.

LinkedIn is a business.

It actually Microsoft

purchased it for $26.2 billion.

And it's starting to reclaim its

money, but it's giving you a better

experience in the premium offerings.

I use Sales Navigator Core

because it's a premium sales

analytics tool, which gives me

40 features or 40 filtering options,

advanced search just to find my

ideal client profile or person out

of, 10,000 data.

Data points.

So if you are looking for lead

generation or you're trying to

get more sales activity happening,

sales navigator call is the one.

It's about 99 USD a month that is.

And I highly recommend it for

someone to trial it at least.

Anthony Perl: Yeah, absolutely.

I think it's one of those

things, isn't it?

You have to make use of the tools.

I think we, that's one of the

challenges in this day and age, right?

That there are so many tools and

you need to make use of them in

order to justify their, their value.

And I think the key is as well

with LinkedIn is, as I said is I'd

encourage people to follow you because.

You give tips regularly on what

the latest and greatest is, and

I think it is important to stay on

top of those things.

We will absolutely make sure that

those details are in the show notes,

but I wanted to delve deeper into

this whole idea of brand a little bit

more and how you are positioning

yourself as well.

But let's start off with the background.

How cool was it working at Red

Bull and why would you leave?

Yeah, look, red Bull's

fantastic.

I was there in the early days and it

was one of those brands that was

new to market.

They were coming out from Austria.

Unfortunately the founder just passed

away last year, Mr.

Mani or Dietrich Mani.

But it was a very progressive brand.

It was very youth orientated.

And one thing I learned from being

there was they were different to market.

And I love that about the product.

I was there in the early days

when there was only six of us,

I think, within the Queensland

office with our energy teams,

which is the little Volkswagens that

drove around with a can in the back.

And they gave us the opportunity

to wear many hats.

We were sales, we were event

organizers, we were dealing

with PR teams.

And it just gave me such an opportunity

to have a diverse range of skill sets.

And I worked with there for many years

and thought after working there, I

think for eight years, what could I

actually take from the market working

with Red Bull out to the SME market and

see if the Red Bull way really worked?

And I'd worked with a couple of

companies after that using that kind of

methodology and had enormous success.

So I loved learning one.

Or a one style of skill within

marketing and the methodology of

being a mystique brand in the way

that Red Bull went to market, and then

taking across into smaller, medium

brands and using the same philosophy.

To give you an idea, I actually

worked writing a blueprint for the

Hard Rock Cafe.

And the first thing I did was I created

an activation where we had Axel Roses

Harley Davidson, that set up on a

showcase piece.

You couldn't touch it, you could only

just take photos.

And I said to the general manager,

why is that sitting up there?

He said, oh, people take photos of it.

I said, why don't we put on the ground

with a banner of the hardware cafe

Gold Coast with all the elements

of the skyline for the guitar?

Let's let people sit on it and let them

have the experience and then they can

take Instagram shots and help promote.

And we had basically a lineup

down the stairs.

So people came for the activation of

sitting on Axel Roses, Harley

Davidson, and taking a photo and then

sharing that for the company, and

then they decided to grab a burger while

they were there.

It's using that really cool

activations to try something different

in markets they hadn't tried.

I think that the

really interesting part about that is

it's an experience and I think that's

what people are looking for, right?

Is they need to experience something

with your brand in order to then

be able to share it and to, take

some kind of enjoyment out of it.

'cause the interesting thing

about that is, the.

The burger just needed probably to

be good and didn't need to be great

in order to get people to come back

because you had this showpiece that

was there, whereas the emphasis on

trying to be well, are we the greatest

burger place in wherever you are

is a lot harder road to travel and

it's the experience that you get.

That was really what Hard rock

cafes were all about, wasn't it?

Yeah.

The experience.

Yeah, rock and roll even.

I actually had a conversation with

the general manager and the team and

I said, unless we are relevant to

the youth, because everything was,

there was heritage, it was old, photos

and guitars.

And I said, we have to be relevant to

the youth, otherwise we don't become

relevant as a brand and they're

out, they're outta business now.

And I think that was one of the

main reasons they just didn't look

at new activations or new markets to

actually bring their product in front of.

So it just became an old brand

in the end.

Yeah, it's interesting.

Because it was, and for those that

maybe that don't even remember Hard

Rock Cafe that might be listening

it, they really were a phenomenon,

weren't they?

They were, you would go to different ones

in, around the world because you wanted

to see the stuff, but the problem was

that once you went once there wasn't

really a reason to go back because

there wasn't a rotation of things.

And so you went and you had an

experience and you had a great

experience.

Maybe you went back a second

time, but it's unlikely you went

back thir three or four times because.

There was nothing new about it.

And I think that's the, that is also

the dilemma with something like that

is, is creating experiences but

keeping up with, need to adapt

and change.

Otherwise you do fall behind.

Yeah.

One thing I learned from being at Red

Bull was about you always had

to re, you had to be relevant

to the youth.

And that's one thing you can see in their

marketing today.

They're very relevant to the

youth market coming through because

then they get brand loyalists

starting at a young age and carrying

that through.

Also with LinkedIn at the moment, the

most engagement on the platform is 25

to 33 year olds, the Gen Z market.

And it's a, it's an interesting

stat when I bring that up.

People can't believe it.

They think LinkedIn's quite

old with, its with, with its viewpoint.

But no, it's a young demographic coming

onto it and they're omnipresent across,

seven of those different platforms.

They understand they're native to

these platforms.

They know that they need to be on

it to be relevant because attention

is the asset.

And so I, when I teach my programs

within the LinkedIn platform is about

making sure you are not only

omnipresent, but definitely be on

LinkedIn because that's where

the business is

and it keeps you feeling

young, right?

We are definitely in that age group,

aren't we, Steve?

Absolutely.

Now I just finishing up on I'm intrigued.

A little bit further just to

push you a little bit further on

the Red Bull thing because, I find it

fascinating that I'm, engaged with

Red Bull as a brand on a regular basis.

'cause I happen to love Formula One

and Red Bull is very prominent in Formula

One, of course.

But I've never drunk a Red Bull

and I don't think I ever will.

But I love the brand and that's a

really interesting thing, isn't it?

Because you do have these brands

out there that are like that, that you

want to champion.

Because you like what they stand for.

They're the, they're on the edge, right?

They're a brand that is of a similar

ilk to Virgin in that they're not

afraid to take risks and they're not

afraid to go out there and promote.

New things, but it's interesting.

I find that it with such a prominent

brand that their market is, they're

not expecting me to be in their

market either.

That's the interesting thing

about it is I don't think people my

age are picking up a Red Bull for

the first time.

I think their target is a lot younger.

Yeah I think there's a lot of lessons

to be learned from those kinds of

experiences as well.

That you have to know your market,

but doesn't mean you can't be.

Seen in a broader sense as well.

Yeah, and obviously that

was one of the big programs for

Red Bull was the marketing of the

sampling program, where they sampled

you the product and they actually

told you about the benefits and the

ingredients and things like that.

And so they spent a lot of money and

time on educating the consumer on

why the products functionality use

and when they should have, and how they

should actually, use it because it

is just a delivery through the can.

The actual energy, it does give you

wings and you might not be a consumer

at the time, but if you are gonna

make an energy drink or a drink

consumption and you need energy because

you've got that brand persona of

Red Bull supported you, you are more

likely to grab that as a product

than you would as a competing product.

So just putting Red Bull in the

conversation.

And I think the question

then becomes for you is, as you've

delved into this role, and I love

the interesting title this whole

idea of being a fractional operator,

it's become a, a trendier term.

I've heard that used a little bit more

in recent times.

So explain to me what that is

and explain to me how you take

learnings from.

Your experiences in Red Bull Hard

Rock Cafe what you're doing with

smaller businesses through LinkedIn

and other places, how does that

play out in what you're doing now?

Yeah, look, I'm just coming in

with fresh eyes and I deal with a lot

of head of brand just to come, just

speak to them about what they're doing

with their programs, their marketing

strategies, managing in-house teams.

And a lot of them are, they don't

have the wisdom of seeing what

brands going from, startup to being

more progressive in the market.

And so I just come into these

businesses and I just see what

they're doing now and work with their

head of branches.

Just say, look, maybe you

should make.

Try these, you should be

broadcasting your branding message

across different platforms and

just being fresh eyes to what they

normally know.

Like when I started with Red Bull,

one of the first things they said

to me, if you've got a marketing

degree, don't worry about it.

We don't use it.

We do it our own way.

And I thought that was really

interesting that they said that.

And they were a hundred

percent right.

They didn't do anything.

That I was learning in marketing.

And so I actually take that into

marketing teams now and I say to people,

especially even on LinkedIn, make

sure your marketing in the year we

actually live in, doesn't matter what

you've done before.

Have a look at what the market's doing.

Look who the creators are, look

at the culture of things and make sure

you are relevant in today's market.

And a lot of people, especially with

their LinkedIn, talk about the

good old days.

We're not on the good old

days anymore.

We wanted to work with leaders who

are progressing ourselves and our

brands forward.

And that's what I love about where

LinkedIn can place you in today's

market because you can be talking about

in your content what you are doing

as a business professional and

you've learned from those scars, but

you are, you're looking forward and

that's what people are looking at.

One of the reasons, I dunno if you know

this, but why is the emu and the

kangaroo on our coat of arms is 'cause

they're only two animals that only

will go forward.

They'll never go back.

So I dunno if you know that, but

that's what I love to see if people

are progressing, not about the

good old days.

And once upon a time.

Anthony Perl: I love that.

And I vaguely remember hearing

that somewhere once before.

Maybe you told it to me.

I can't remember.

Okay.

But I love that It is and it's

interesting, isn't it?

Because we are living in an age

where the rate of change, I believe,

is faster than it has ever been.

Absolutely.

The efficiencies that are being

created from ai.

In particular are allowing more

space to do things.

And I think that's one of

the big areas.

And when you talk about marketing,

it's creativity, it's fresh ideas.

That's the big space that marketing

has an opportunity to really grow.

And in fact, AI is not countering that.

It's actually.

Creating more opportunities for

that to happen because the

drudgery of what's in marketing, if I

can call it that, where, things

like placement of content or and

generating reports and other things

can now be much more efficiently.

Done with some AI assistance.

So I wouldn't say ai, do it on its

own, don't do that.

But you've got mo greater efficiencies

in there, which allows more space

to be creative because in the

face of all of the AI and LinkedIn's

a good example of that, the face of

all the AI that has been used to

publish content, the way to stand out.

Is the uniqueness, your unique stories,

creativity, fresh ideas, which again,

I'm not, I don't wanna dwell back

on Red Bull, but that's and Virgin

is the same.

They're always about fresh ideas

and new things.

It's, you've got to keep moving forward.

Yeah.

Red Bull was never about being

a copying brand.

It was always being a leading brand.

And I used to sit on round tables

with athletes and they'd basically,

they'd have to come up with something

in their category that had never

been done before.

So if you know that when the Red Bull

air race happened, that came from

the concept of downhill skiing.

Going through the gates, but

doing it through aerobatics and

things like that.

So they're always very progressive

in the market.

Red Bull was never about following.

It was always about leading.

And I take that into what I do every day.

I'm always, I'm an early riser.

I dunno, I think I think, but I'm up

at three 30 every morning and I'm

into the gym and I'm listening to two

hours of the best podcast of business

professionals and forward leading

thinkers like Gary Vaynerchuk and

Alex Mosey, and I'm listening to

that every day for.

The whole year.

So whenever I come into my first

meetings, I'm talking to clients,

I'm energized.

I'm like, this is what's happening,

because I know that they're being bold

in what they're doing and they're

testing the market and I'm listening

to what's happening and I'm relaying

it to my clients.

And that's one of the reasons that

I'm doing so well in Mark at the moment

because I'm paying attention to what's

happening through leaders who are

trying new things.

Plus, there's a lot of great LinkedIn

trainers out there.

I'm listening to what they're doing.

I'm sure they're listening to

what I'm doing, but together.

We're all help benefiting people's

opportunity to understand how

to use this platform LinkedIn

in a day-to-day operation and be

and to be better.

1% every day.

Yeah.

And that's the key, isn't it?

It's taking your influences and being

on the edge and not being afraid

to try things.

I think for so long, business has been

about what's my competition doing?

And I better just match the

competition or try and stay a

little bit ahead.

But I think you don't even almost

have to pay attention to your

competition anymore.

It's about what you can do, what you can

bring to the table, what ideas you have.

And bringing the audience along with

you, because there's still, and that's

the interesting thing about brands

these days, is you have to almost be

like Apple has been for the longest

time where they're, what they believe

people will want in the future,

not what they know they want now.

Yeah.

And also treating your customer,

not as a customer, but as a

community member.

One of the brands I was working with

for many years is LSKD, and they're

an Australian brand out of Logan

south of Brisbane.

And they, every time they're across

all their socials, they've got an

engagement officer that when they

post content and there's engagement,

someone goes back as the brand and

has a voice and consistently talks

and nurtures that relationship.

So they're not customers anymore.

They're community members, and I love

that about that brand and that they

wear that brand in their heart whenever

they're making a purchase decision,

which is salience.

That's why they're growing at an

enormous rate.

So the takeaway is don't treat people

as customers.

Treat them as your, as a community

member or your big sister,

to be honest.

Go over and above every time you

deal with someone.

So let me put you on

the spot and tell me about some of

the brands that you, whether you've

worked with them or not, that you really

love at the moment.

And I think what's important is that

we can, as we have, we've talked about,

big brands, but let's talk about

some of the smaller brands because

most of the people listening to us

these days are probably part of a

smaller brand and want to know what

they can do to make a different, so

what's inspiring you on some of

those smaller levels that are

making a difference?

Look, I've obviously, I do

love Red Bull on it and I do love

Harley Davidson, some of the biggest

brands in the world.

But LSKD is one brand that's doing

extremely well.

There's so many that I can't really

put a name to what they are 'cause

I'm not following in directly.

But anyone that's, giving it a

good red hot go.

That's the main thing.

There's many brands out there that will

come and go, but the ones that you know,

have resilience, they're bold,

they're willing to have a bit of a step

in the dark about trying new things.

That's what excites me mostly about

brands in the market at the moment.

Obviously Virgin's doing well.

I just love brands that had that hero

statement status of progressing

forward even at the toughest times.

Is it achievable for

smaller brands?

You're spending some, you're

spending time going in to working

with smaller businesses and

dealing with them.

Are the real takeaways that you

can have from what some of those bigger

guys are doing?

Is it true that's actually in many

respects, easier to be out there?

For smaller brands because they don't

have the bureaucracy and the level of

decision making that needs to happen, but

they may not have the, counted with

the fact they may not have the budget.

Few people would have the budget

of a virgin or a red Bull in terms

of marketing.

Yeah social media's been the

big equalizer because people don't

have to have big advertising budgets.

They can actually use their phone

record content and upload it

across those seven platforms.

And if you do that every day and

for long enough, you'll get noticed.

Even if your product's good,

you'll survive.

And if it's not good, you

won't survive.

One of the good things about.

The state of play at the moment on the

internet is we've all got an equal

opportunity to be seen and discovered.

And so that's why it's important

especially for LinkedIn, is to

people not to post every now and then

or frequent it.

Every now and then, it's actually put a

plan or a strategy in place to be

on the platform and telling you

your unique story.

In a way that it's interesting in

informing for the potential client,

because most people with your product

in market, only 3% are interested to

buy now, but 97% are looking for

trust value from you and your brand.

And so across those seven platforms.

Especially with LinkedIn and

Facebook and Instagram, just

keep showing up and being your authentic

self and you'll be discovered.

The main thing with providing content

is when you do get pro content

that actually starts to get some

great impressions and that, and

it's doing well.

That's the time to boost it with some

advertising spend and it's called

brand format.

And that way when it's working, you

know it's working, you put some money

behind it and it does well then

you can get some really good return

in advertising spend and revenue

starts coming back in the other way.

Yeah, I think that's

important for people to understand

that you can.

Compete as a small business owner, you

don't have to, in the past it was like

we were dominated by big brands and felt

dwarfed by them.

But in truth, because of your

ability to niche and to be quite targeted

in what you do, and you're talking

about, LinkedIn is a great way of.

Being able to find who your, if you

know who your core audience is, you

can find those people on LinkedIn.

It's not just about the old days where,

there were three or four TV stations and

you, your chance to was to advertise to

absolutely everybody and hope that

you hit the right program and spent a

huge fortune on it.

Nowadays it's become more and more

targeted, right?

And it doesn't have to be through

advertising.

You can engage with people in lots of

different ways.

Yeah, a lot of brands, smaller

brands are using influencers now

through social media and getting

huge engagement by, user generated

content from these young influencers

because, TikTok and Facebook and

Instagram, they're getting, hundreds

of thousands of followers, and if

you have your brand associated with

them, you're getting eyeballs seen

on your product.

So the influencer market is becoming

a big play within marketing.

So tell me, when you

go into businesses these days and

you're performing this fractional

role, how do you make an impact?

And that seems like a, a a high

level question, but it's, if there

are people that are maybe a little bit

cynical about what difference someone

can come in and actually make, what

is it that you can see as a difference?

How do you, how does being independent

and coming in on a regular basis, but.

And a small way gonna work

for businesses.

Yeah, look, a bit of housekeeping.

Number one, making sure on their

website alone that nothing's

broken, no links are broken, they're

easily found.

Also, have a look over their, all

their pages on a website and see

where they're actually letting

the customer know where the pro, what

the problem is that they actually solve.

A lot of people on their websites

go straight into the, the value

proposition of their products and

services, but they don't actually

indicate to the potential buyer of

the problem that they solve within

their products and services.

So that's number one.

By having a look over your website

and just seeing if it's actually

speaking to the client that they've

got the issue, that you have the

problem that you, that they, that

you solve for them.

That's number one.

Also, making sure that you

do have a social marketing plan

across the seven.

Channels that we were talking about

before, LinkedIn being one, if it's

B2B and just looking what assets they've

got within the business to see what

they can profile.

What's their unique value proposition?

What do they have that no

one else has?

And that's a big part of just

building a strategy out around that.

The main thing is attention is the

asset and whatever business you go

to, the reason they're in business

is because they're solving a problem

or they've got a product that is

value orientated and you just need to get

that message out.

To the people that need the product

or services.

So it's just some of the basic elements.

Yeah, and I think it's,

it is important that people don't

underestimate the value of someone

independent that's specializing in it.

I think the beauty of these

fractional roles that have started

to come about and there's certainly

marketing is one area, certainly

finance is another.

Where I've seen that happen and

other parts of the business as well,

is it allows to have someone who.

Can have a consistent view of

what's going on, but are not encumbered

by the day to day and can add, high

level strategic, ongoing advice.

Absolutely.

There's a sports brand I'm working

with at the moment that's got

an outstanding athletics product.

And once that gets passed through

an certification, IAF certification

that's got go global distribution

opportunities.

There's a few things in place that have

to happen with a rule change, but

once that happens, this small business

they'll be working with, who's going

over to Germany in, in a couple

of weeks will then have the opportunity

to sell their product worldwide.

And that's another challenge this

business is going to have from a

small business doing, product and

service delivery around Australia,

Australasia to the going worldwide.

So that creates another challenge

that they'll find.

So it's about having those different

moments in time where you're moving

from one to the next challenge,

overcoming that and then moving

to the next.

So it's working with someone like

myself who's been with these brands

where they've started off small

and you got larger, and what some of

the challenges we faced and how they

might come overcome them as well.

I think it is an

important aspect that people

don't realize.

They often stay with the teams

that they've got, that they've built

them up through a period of time

and they want to keep them there.

But sometimes you've, you outgrow

those people.

And I know I've experienced it when

I've been employed in the past, and

I won't say where, but I remember,

the particular organization I was

with that we went through a growth

phase and the CEO stuck around and

I think it was to the detriment of

the organization.

Because as, as great as he was

at getting us to a certain point, he

wasn't really the person to take us

to the next level.

And I think that can happen within

an organization as well.

And you have to recognize

those things.

And sometimes it, it might not be

that someone like that had to step

aside, but it's bringing in the

right people around to help make sure

that you can take it to that next level.

Because you do need that experience.

You do need those people that

understand what what it looks like

on the other side.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, I can't remember the book,

but it's get the right people on

the bus and that's, getting the right

people in the business that's

gonna project you forward.

And I'm noticing a lot of CEOs now

are coming back into businesses

and sitting on the development or in

the marketing teams.

To get more involved with

what's happening.

They're not sitting in that high element

within a business.

They're getting more ingrained

with the business, and I think

that's important.

So they actually see how the business

is operating from inside and

they're part of everyday activity.

I think that's a big part of the

CEO's and also GM's role to have a

look how the actual business is going

in internally.

Is everything cohesive and is

the culture good?

Most businesses struggle

with culture.

Anthony Perl: Yes, that is a

big area and one we might delve

into another time.

I've got a couple of final questions

I wanted to ask you.

Give me some tips on what you believe

is where things are going, not

just LinkedIn, but generally in

terms of marketing.

Where do you think people need to be

in terms of focusing their attention?

Yeah, definitely spending

one or two hours on every AI tool that

they can see at the moment and getting

familiar with it because technology

doesn't care about, it's coming here

and it's arrived.

So getting familiar with the different

AI tools and how they work

and how to start looking at giving

them commands.

And also in regards to platforms

like, LinkedIn, things like that.

Getting familiar, how to navigate

around them.

They are a tool of trade and if you

understand how to use them, they.

They make your day a lot quicker

to actually, do general tasks

by communication and then posting

and getting seen.

It's interesting I believe with

the advancement of ai, especially

the way that it's coming so quick,

what we believe to be happening now

will be completely different in the

next three years.

I dunno what that's gonna look like.

I'm excited for it.

It's gonna be challenging.

It's gonna be exciting, but we

have to invest our time to understand

what's coming at us.

And one of the tools I'm playing around

with at the moment, I said before is

Notebook lm? And I think that's an

amazing tool to have a look at and

if your viewers can have a look at that

and getting involved with that a bit

more, it's a great tool to have as an

association within your business.

It

Anthony Perl: is a fun tool.

I know I used a little while back

to do to consume a lot of my podcasts.

And to do a bit of a review of it,

which was really interesting because

it delivered a conversational

review of the biz Bites for Thought

Leaders podcast, which was which

was a bit of fun.

Yes, if anyone's interested in that,

maybe I need to find that video

again and repost it.

Absolutely you should.

Yep.

It's one of those things.

Now just to wrap things up, a

question that I love to ask all of

my guests that come on the program is

what are the aha moments that people

have when they come to work with you

that you wish more people knew they

were going to have?

That I give more than I take.

So I'm very generous with my time.

I sit on a lot of 15 minute calls.

I give a lot of advice to people.

Sometimes that turns into

business, sometimes it doesn't.

I can lay my head down at the end of

the night and say that I gave it all

my that day and tomorrow's gonna

be a better day.

And I love helping people and I love

spending time that they can be

better at what they're doing.

And if I can just support that I'm a

very happy person.

Anthony Perl: Fantastic.

I love that Steve.

And we are gonna include all

the details of how to get in

contact with you.

And people that are listening in

can jump on one of those 15 minute

calls with you.

I know how much value you bring to

those 15 minutes.

And I encourage people if you have

looking after groups of people as well.

Steve is a great speaker to come in

and add some real value to that.

And lots of things that we didn't even

touch on connected with LinkedIn

and other areas.

Such as my most trusted and a shout

out to Scott and my most trusted as

well, which is a great tool to add

on to your LinkedIn profile and other

things as well.

So you can ask Steve about that as well.

And or just hit me up as well

because I can also introduce you to

that particular one.

But Steve, thank you so much for being

an amazing part of the program, giving

so much advice and tips and insights

along the way.

Really appreciate it.

Thanks Anthony, and thanks

for everything you are doing.

I appreciate it and it's great having

a platform like you that we can

tell our stories.

Anthony Perl: Absolutely.

And we'll look, we encourage everyone

to make sure you don't forget to

subscribe and leave us a like

or a comment on anything that you

want to see on the program coming

up in the future.

And we look forward to your company next

time on Biz Bites for thought Leaders.

Thank you everyone.

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