In this episode, Jessica Regan joins the show to explain how FoodMesh tackles Canada's agri-food waste crisis not as a shortage issue, but as a complex logistical and distribution challenge. By building digital infrastructure that connects commercial surplus food to safe alternative outlets—from human donation to animal feed—Regan demonstrates how turning waste into value requires aligning economic ROI with operational viability. The conversation explores everything from municipal zero-waste policies and backhaul transportation efficiencies to the evolving role of food banks in a circular economy.

https://foodmesh.ca/

Food waste in the modern agri-food system is an illogical inefficiency driven by a connection and distribution problem rather than a lack of food. In this episode, Jessica Regan joins the show to discuss how FoodMesh operates as a digital matchmaker and data-tracking platform, routing surplus food away from landfills and into safe, compliant alternative outlets within tight timeframes. The conversation unpacks the hidden social infrastructure of food rescue, examining how large supply-chain generators often overlook their waste due to snapshot audits and accepted shrink tolerances, while small and medium-sized enterprises struggle on tight margins without dedicated sustainability staff.

A central insight from the discussion is that sustainability initiatives must be anchored in economic reality to succeed. Regan argues that cost is king for businesses, meaning diversion strategies only scale when they directly reduce heavy waste disposal fees, tipping costs, and operational inefficiencies. To overcome these barriers, FoodMesh replaces unpredictable grant funding with a revenue-share and data-stipend model that provides partner food banks with stable, predictable income. This financial backing allows community organizations to hire professional staff, coordinate pickups, and handle perishable goods effectively, turning a chaotic charitable scramble into a streamlined logistical operation.

The conversation also tackles the complex web of municipal policies, regional disparities, and agricultural realities across Canada. Urban businesses and rural producers operate on vastly different stages of the waste diversion journey, leading to billions of dollars worth of nutritional biomass ending up in landfills while farmers face soaring feed costs. Regan highlights the enormous potential of utilizing logistical backhauls—empty return trucks and trains heading east from western supply routes—to move surplus food back where it is needed most. Moreover, high-fidelity data collection across tens of thousands of annual pickups reveals supply chain hotspots, exposing the absurdity of manufactured waste where producers overgrow crops simply to guarantee customer supply.

Ultimately, this episode challenges listeners to rethink food waste as a systemic design flaw that requires both regulatory carrots and sticks, such as circular waste taxes. Regan shares a visionary outlook where recovered and upcycled food transitions from an emergency measure driven by food insecurity to a mainstream, values-based consumer choice. For Canada's agri-food sector, embracing circularity offers a vital blueprint for building a resilient, collaborative, and economically viable food system from farm to fork.

Topics: Food Waste, Circular Economy, Supply Chain Logistics, Agri-Food Innovation, Food Security, Sustainability Data, Municipal Policy

Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.

Welcome to the Future Herd.

Food waste is one of those open scandals that our food system, on the one hand

kind of has as a necessity, but on the other is an obvious source of shame.

Uh, an example of an inefficiency that up to this point, markets have fundamentally,

not only not corrected, but kind of tolerated in a way that defies logic.

But as regular listeners to the show know, things are changing.

The industry as a whole has changed its attitude towards food waste.

And there's not only opportunities for innovation, there's

opportunities for new businesses.

And at the heart of that is an emerging infrastructure that kind of regards

food waste, not so much as waste, but as opportunity a, as, uh, uh, value

that other people may not perceive.

And that's where our guest today, Jessica and her organisation, food

Mesh, really is transforming not just how we think about food waste, but

the entire food system as a whole.

And it speaks to why the word AgriFood is more than just agriculture.

It's more than food.

And in this case includes food waste, which doesn't need to be wasted, which

can be processed, redirected, repurposed.

And that's where markets actually have an opportunity in making our food system

more efficient in creating opportunities for new businesses while at the same

time addressing food insecurity.

This is one of those interviews that left me thinking about all sorts of

different follow and, and perhaps we'll talk about this in the conclusion,

but it emphasises why our food system prospers, thrives, uh, uh, innovates

when we have, uh, diverse minds as Jessica who apply these problems in, in a

really innovative and revolutionary way.

Alright, enough hype, let's tune in.

Jessica, welcome to the Future Herd.

Thanks, Jesse.

It's good to be here.

Now I am absolutely, uh, uh, uh, overjoyed to talk about some of the

subjects we're gonna talk about today.

These are, uh, passion subjects of mine, let alone for yourself.

Uh, but I always start with the same question, uh uh,

which is kind of an abstract.

Go wherever you wish.

What does the future mean to you?

Yeah, that's a great opening question and obviously quite,

uh, quite expansive I think as it relates to the work that we do.

You know, I, I think that a future where we have a really

connected food system where food is not waste, similar to nature.

We value our food and we find systems where it goes to where it needs to go,

and it really doesn't happen in landfill.

I think to start there, that's, that's the starting point.

Well, and I, I always like following it up with like an

origin question or a lure question, but, but to your point, I, I have to

admit, I'm pretty new to having the awareness that food waste is what it is.

Where were you when you first had that aha moment like this?

I'd love for you to describe kinda how you went from where most people

are, which is oblivion to really understanding, you know, the extent

to which there is so much food waste.

Yeah, I, I recall the, the moment, actually

it was, uh, September, 2015.

A friend of mine, uh, who owns a compost company, sent me some photos

of, uh, a couple trailer loads.

Uh, one was of avocados and one was of onions.

And they were too ripe for retail, so they ended up on his dock.

Um, and unfortunately, they had the stickers that were

going to clog this machine.

So we ended up rejecting the avocados, which ended up

further down the, the hierarchy.

So that was one of those inconvenient truths that really stuck with me.

and I, I slowly, uh, became obsessed with the problem.

As I got more, more and more interested and informed on the problem of food waste,

it just became more and more absurd.

Um, and as someone who grew up in a large family where we used everything,

we grew up on a farm, uh, this was kind of a very weird and uncomfortable truth.

So from there, uh, that began the investigation and I realised that we

really don't have a food shortage problem.

We have a connection and distribution problem when things don't go to plan.

Well, and give me a sense of those kind of early motivations.

'cause a, a lot of people would've reacted differently.

You know, granted knowledge is both power, but also a kind of

responsibility that once you learn something, it, it can change you.

But a lot of other people might have put their heads up and go,

this is too big a problem for me.

Th th this is something maybe someone else should deal with.

But you kind of had the opposite reaction.

Tell me a little bit more as to why.

yeah.

No, that's a great question.

Most, I think, uh, rational are saying, people would probably just

say, oh, this is, this is crazy.

But, um, and indeed I did look for other people to maybe like to support,

to start this business, and I realised that if this is a problem that's going

to, um, have a serious, you know, go at it, I, I need to step into the ring.

So, um, it took me another six months to like figure it out and

realise that I was, I was all in.

Uh, and so we started our company in March, 2016.

So, yeah, I mean, it's been a long journey and, you know, 10 years in, 10 and a half

years in, I look back and, you know, I still feel like we're getting started.

We've made a lot of head, um, a lot of ground, um, made a lot of ground,

but, uh, there's still a lot of work to do and, you know, the, the

numbers are still quite staggering.

Uh, but even though there's, the, the space has evolved so much in that time,

uh, in, in a very positive direction.

There's still a lot of work to do for

Well, and, and you know, staying on the big picture side.

Tell me a bit about how you've seen that awareness or you've seen that

perception change over those 10 years.

Because I'm assuming 10 years ago most people were certainly,

I was totally oblivious.

And I assume as you've been educating people, as you've been kinda engaging

different institutions, different people throughout the supply chain, how have they

changed over this period, both in terms of your success, but also in terms of

the larger kind of culture around food?

I'm assuming you've seen that change a little bit as well.

Hopefully, at least around food waste.

Certainly.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I think about the early conversations, especially with the food

waste generators along supply chain, you know, growers pack our shippers,

manufacturers and retailers, and a lot of them, you know, had the same response

to me that they don't really have a food waste problem, that they're very

efficient and, you know, they're, they're doing everything they possibly could

to, um, uh, you know, reduce the waste.

But as we started to look into it, the decision makers, um, are not always

the ones that back in the warehouse, um, that are actually throwing

out the food looking at the food.

And the, the audits that they have are once a year, and it's

a little snapshot on time.

So it wasn't a realistic picture.

And also what we realised is that they have an acceptable

tolerance of, you know, 5% shrink.

That's just what we, and it's part of their, their margin

and, and their cost of goods.

So what we've realised is that that food is not waste.

It is actually can be rescued and it still has value.

And for you, they need to just actually understand that there is

a problem to accept it and know that there's solutions out there.

So it's been quite a journey.

There's been a lot of education, a lot of conversations, uh, but you really need

that tenacity and just not giving up.

Um, and then that snowball effect, once you get one big customer says, yes,

we're gonna give you, give it a shot, and then you continue to just earn, earn

more business, um, do a good job, do it reliably, safely, um, and then, you know,

more people wanna do the right thing.

I think a lot of businesses, it's not that they don't want to do any

a good thing, it's just when it's, when it's hard or it's cost, um, uh,

prohibitive, that's when they just default to the conventional mechanisms,

which are not really always that great.

Well, and, and kind of unpack within that un unpack what I

would describe as the culture of value.

And I say that 'cause it kind of applies to two sides.

On the one hand, you're arguing that there's value to what some

people see as waste, right?

And, and you're trying to help them understand that value.

But on the other hand, you're offering the value of what you

as an organisation are doing.

I, I would love, again, as part of how that's evolved over the years, how you've

been able to either refine the messaging or help people see what you see when

it comes to the, the, the value in, in, in adjusting and adapting, either

to reducing waste or to your point, reallocating, you know, what may be waste

to someone but is feed to someone else.

It's a great question.

The, the, the topic of value and where we put our values, uh, and at the

end of the day when something can't be sold because they think it's, um,

past the best before, so it's unsafe.

Um, one thing we've done is education around just because it's best.

Um, best before doesn't mean bad after.

Um, and so that there is still value in something, even if

it's further down the hierarchy.

So if you think about the food waste hierarchy, um, or wasted food

hierarchy, it's like you try to sell it or discount it, donate it to humans,

send it to animals, and then compost.

But some people just go right to landfill that the values are not necessarily there.

And oftentimes it's not someone's job to find alternative outlets

for the food that they can't sell.

Their job is to sell it for a premium.

And if it's off grade or cosmetically defect or all the dozens of reasons

why food is, has a lesser value than it really merits, um, you know, uh,

it, it quickly goes to the bottom.

Um, and then it, the other aspect is the value of the people who are picking it up.

There is an enormous ecosystem, often invisible, operating in

every community across the country.

Um, where there I, we like to call 'em the solution providers.

So the, there's, there's the soup kitchens, the food banks, the food rescue

agencies that are picking up that food.

oftentimes they're not always valued in the way that I think that they merit.

They, they're not, they're not seen, um, and they're not given as much as they can.

Um, and, and so that's a big part of our work that we're doing is to

provide visibility and to provide value for the work that they're doing

because they're a big part of the solution space and we, we want them

to, the people to see it as such.

Right on.

I, I mean, let, let's go deeper onto that because again,

Okay.

you know, if, if part of your mo motivation came from, okay, we got

this waste problem, what do we do with it?

It, it sounds like this is a, a fantastic byproduct of that, that you

end up being connected to this kind of social infrastructure and then

empower that social infrastructure.

I, I'd love for you to elaborate that both on the empowerment side, how all

of a sudden, uh, again, what is waste to someone or imperfection to someone

is absolutely indispensable to someone else, but then what that enables, right?

What that then allows them to be doing even further, uh, uh, beyond that.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think of just, you know, stepping back a bit, I mean,

that is the nature of our work.

So with food mesh, we are a digital, um, platform to help connect, um,

you know, uh, food, food surplus with those, can use it at that time.

So effectively we just do really three things.

We're, we're a matchmaker.

We help ma manage it to make sure that the matches are made in compliance

with the law, reliable and safe.

And then we measure it.

We have a data piece too, so that we can, uh, have great traceability and

it's harmonised across all of the, the service locations that we work with.

So the value of matching and that, the, the, um, the, the delicate art

of that because typically, um, you know, not all matches are, are made.

Sometimes the, the, they're not always so easy.

So for example, a food bank might be picking up something, but they can't

take everything or they don't wanna be do, dumped on, you know, and they

don't wanna say no to their donor.

So there's a lot of pressure for food banks to take stuff

that isn't a great fit for them.

So our job is to build out a directory of different types of outlets on, you

know, what's their capacity, what do they want, um, and, and then to create

more smart and more intelligent matches.

Um, and it's not just with food banks, it also, we help, um, you know, if there's

someone who wants to buy the product up, up cyclers, which is a whole other topic

I'd love to kind of get into because this is a growing, um, industry that needs a

lot of support and provides a lot of value to the, the, the, the solution space.

Um, and so really I think that the main thing is finding who can

take that food in a way that's a harmonious match, where it's, it's

not a, it's not a compromise for them.

It actually helps give them that boost.

So that's the, that's the work that we do here at Foodish.

Well, and, and one of the things I, I said a mention

before we started recording that I wanted to tease out is this notion of

infrastructure for a circular economy.

And you alluded to it there.

And that, and again, I'd love for us to zero in on that, in that when I was

doing the research, uh, and anticipating this episode, I was fascinated by the,

the concept of a surplus marketplace.

That, to your point, there's this kind of middle ground where, you know,

there's the grade A, the what people buy, and then there's the waste.

But in between, there's all sorts of other opportunities to

get value outta these products.

You just described it or alluded to it with upcycling.

Please unpack that.

Give me a sense of how the broader food industry is able to make money, is able

to still get value out of stuff that would've otherwise gone to waste and

the markets, the opportunities that then, that it then fosters or creates.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, uh, I would say first of all, so the surplus marketplace is,

like I said, an opportunity for people who with purchasing power.

And that includes, like I said, liquidators, discount grocery.

Even food banks, a lot of them do have an ability to purchase.

Uh, they don't necessarily wanna buy it the full market value, but if they know

that they can clear that out within a couple of days, uh, that before the best

before, and they can get a 50% on that, that is absolutely a value to them.

And of course, the, the folks that have the surplus right now throwing out that

food as a cost driver, they have to pay the hauling, the tipping the equipment.

It's very expensive.

And those costs are going up year over year as more organic

bylaws are, are coming to place.

So there is a driving and increasing need for those

businesses to do the right thing.

But to find that match and do all the coordination with all these

onesie two Z one-offs is a lot of work and it's not worth their time.

So it's just easier and cheaper to throw it out.

So the work that we're trying to do is make it faster and easier and, to, to,

for those matches to occur, um, and, uh, reduce the friction in the transaction.

Well, and uh, again, where I see the potential here is, you

know, let's say I, I am in Vancouver or Toronto and I'm running a ghost

kitchen where I'm producing food for takeout, I'm producing food for catering.

It doesn't matter how the food looks, it matters how it tastes.

And if there are emerging markets where you're not only getting discounts,

but you're helping someone else at the same, like, that's a win-win.

I, again, I'd love for you, I've, I'm, I've made the mistake as

host of assuming our listeners know what a circular economy is.

So I kind of breezed by the subject without getting you to unpack that.

So let's take a step back.

When did you, uh, learn about the concept of the circular economy?

And why don't you unpack it a bit for people who may just be

hearing it for the first time.

Certainly.

Yeah.

So I mean, there's, there's quite a few elements to a circular economy.

Uh, if we think about circular food system, it's where nothing goes to waste.

It's the, right now we're operating a very linear take, make waste, uh,

infrastructure or, uh, um, system.

Uh, a true circular economy is whereas there, there is no waste.

So think about nature and biomimicry, like nature does not waste.

There's all, all the outputs, uh, and the byproducts are used as

an input for another organism.

So a perfect system is where whatever is not being used for the primary

purpose has other outlets for that product so that there is no lost value.

So what we're trying to do at Food Mesh is to be that connected food system.

So we know we're like a giant switchboard.

Okay, what do you have?

Who needs what?

How do we create those, those matches?

And it is very difficult and the surplus is very volatile.

It's sometimes unpredictable.

Um, you know, we get calls almost on a daily basis where we get truckloads of

product because it's a slightly off spec.

Um, and our team has a mandate to try and find that match within an hour.

That's a very difficult, um, mandate.

Um, but it is, it is what we strive for here at Food Mesh.

Um, in terms of going back to what a, uh, like a circular economy, um,

one of the big things that I think is often overlooked is the economic

model of the circular economy.

We expect that food banks to do this work for free, um, and they rely on

grants and they compete with each other.

Uh, and that's a problem that we, we, we have, I think with the system is we keep

talking about circular food economy, uh, but if we're not valuing the, the value,

um, you know, added providers, I guess, uh, we, we've got a flaw in the system.

And so the work at Food Mesh, and, you know, my background historically, this

is, um, you know, I'm an entrepreneur.

I've had many businesses, and one of the big things that's important to us

is this, uh, social impact business.

So we w we're, we wanted, you know, have a, a, a healthy business, but

also making sure that the stakeholders that we work with are also benefiting.

So we do a revenue share with those, um, food banks.

So every time that they pick up and track that they picked up on their

scheduled day, provide a data stipend.

And that has added up.

So to the tune of where some of our partners are getting, you know,

several thousand dollars a month, uh, that allows them to reduce the

reliance on the grants and to become higher people, to show up every day

and to train them and get food safe.

So we're changing the system and adding more rigour professionality, and we're

creating a true economic model that is predictable that people can plan on

rather than this random, you know, uh, can I, did I get this grant or not?

No, we didn't.

We have to close our door.

So that's the problem.

How are we supposed to build a system, uh, based on that.

And I assume part of that is because you're identifying value, you're

identifying cost or the inverse potential for savings where other people ignored it.

And, and, and that's where, if I heard you correctly, was the point about the

haulage and the tipping fees, that if you're diverting some of the heaviest

and wettest elements from people's waste, there's tremendous savings there for them.

And that's where they then see the kind of broader kind of ROI, for

lack of a better phrase, on the services that you're providing.

Is that correct?

yeah, yeah.

It, you know, it took me a very long time to realise that I've always tried to sell

base on the right thing to do and trying to talk to CFO or an operator, you know,

they're like, okay, that's really nice.

But no, like, at the end of the day, cost, cost is king and you really do

have to look at the economics and then the operational viability of it all.

So, yes, uh, waste is expensive or it's becoming increasing expense.

I still think that it's, it's, um, it doesn't include all

the environmental factors.

I actually think sending land food to a landfill is, doesn't, is still too low

in my opinion, but there is a cost for these businesses, and by diverting it,

there could be some cost savings for sure.

Um, and that is kind of where we are able to find our customers.

See, realising that if you can save money and do the right

thing, it becomes a no brainer.

Well, and tell me more about the expertise that you

guys have acquired along the way.

'cause you know, on the one hand there's the, the chutzpah or, or the foolishness

to tackle such a crazy problem and, and be the, the kind of pioneer of vanguard.

But the benefit is the knowledge that, that you develop a kind of expertise

that is novel on certain levels that allows you to create the kind of

markets and infrastructure you do.

I, I, how does that apply?

And, and I guess part of me is leading to the question of the work you do

with municipalities and, and the work you do kind of with governments, but

you also do kind of campaign work and, and, and kind of market education work.

So before we get into the application, give me a sense of the kind of

expertise, 'cause you've been alluding to it throughout our

conversation, but you also seem to be applying it in really smart ways.

Was that intentional or is that just a byproduct of trying to address

the larger fundamental problem?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So at the end of the day, you gotta start small and you gotta, you, you

gotta build on strong foundations.

So, you know, we started with the surplus marketplace.

We, we've done a lot of pivots, we've never forgotten our North Star, but

in order to get there, it's a bit of a, you know, trying to figure out

what are the best things to build on, and that, and where's the market at.

So for the last eight years, we've really focused on grocery retail

because, uh, there's surplus every single day, and that's fresh food.

So that is a really great mix for, um, you know, there's grocery stores in

all pockets, every community across the country, and there's food banks also.

So our job is to create, um, really great matches, make sure that all

of the food banks in the area have access, um, and do scheduled days,

and they're all tracking the same.

And so we became a really, we became very proficient and really understood that.

And we, we, we rolled that out and then we continue to build on that.

And as our understanding of the problem continues, we then bring on more services.

So by working in these communities, we can now realise that there is a very complex

and thriving ecosystem that's not just the charities, it's also farmers Eco,

um, upcycles, like I said, there's all these, uh, this myriad of, of people and

organisations that can do great stuff.

They just can't create those connections.

So that is the role that we've become the expert in and working with these

municipalities, because we're looking at this more of a macro level.

We're not the experts on the ground.

We partner with them and we listen to them.

We are, uh, the connector, the digital connector, I suppose.

And so our benefit at our, our vantage point is the fact that work with all of

these different types of like, uh, siloed groups, I guess, cur, uh, currently,

and realise what are the things that, um, you know, how do they operate?

What do they need?

What are their limitations?

And then we start to look at the policy level.

That is my background.

Um, you know, I've got, uh, that, um, I would say some training in that space.

Uh, and, uh, I would say that my interest is be away from the policy and

work with practical applications and, um, work with businesses to make it

so that it's an operationally viable.

It's not just in the policy or in the advocacy.

It's actually in the doing and the proving that gets people, more people involved.

If this was not the focused podcast that I try to, uh, uh, make it,

we would at this point digress and talk about China and trade policy and some

of the stuff that, you know, you did, uh, in undergrad and graduate school.

But we are gonna stay focused today, uh, on food mesh.

And, and I do want to talk about policy, uh, in a moment, but I, I want to talk

about municipalities there and, and I say that 'cause this is a curiosity I have.

It, it it, it was easy for me to wrap my head around kind of the grocery store

and the haulage and the tipping fees and kind of how that fits together.

The municipal level is a whole other layer of complexity.

And at the same time opportunity because especially rural municipalities, they're

ostensibly managing a lot of waste even though often they're outsourcing it.

Or here in Ontario it's become provincial now.

But, but tell me about how you approach that, because again, on the one hand

this strikes me like you're, you're trying to tackle these crazy problems,

I,

but on the other hand, lots of opportunity if you do so.

I'd, again, I'd love to hear about that interaction that

you've had with municipalities.

'cause they're, that's where the, a lot of the waste stuff

really literally hits the road.

Certainly, yeah.

It's a, it's, you know, uh, I think about a conversation I had about nine

years ago where I presented to a very large regional district, and I pitched

them on this regional food recovery network, and they just stared at me and

they're like, what is she talking about?

What is, what is this?

And, you know, it took about another four or five years for them to like

percolate and then get to an RFP where, uh, to build out this thing

that I was pitching many years ago.

And so it wasn't really on the radar.

It wasn't even an accepted term.

So things, things have changed, uh, to the point where there's many, um,

municipalities doing these types of RFPs for someone to create a connected, uh,

system within their own jurisdiction.

And the reason why is because, uh, there are these mandates that exist

at the, uh, municipal and the regional level on zero waste food goals.

But the issue is that they are really only in control of households.

Whereas the ICNI, the, um, the business sector, they are often with private

contracts and they don't really have, uh, either necessarily the authority or the,

the capacity to go and work with all of these different businesses, especially

when each business along the supply chain has its own unique needs, um, and

issues that, uh, need to be curated.

There's no way that, uh, city staff have that capacity and the time

to become an expert in this space.

And so what we were proposing to them and say, look like this work is hard.

It requires, uh, education, matchmaking, tracking, supporting, we can do

this for you because our unique role is that we're not just a binary.

We help find donations.

We look across the board and we have a very kind of diverse, our,

our, I guess our strength is in the diversity in which we offer.

So it we're a unique bird, a rare bird, I'd say in the block.

Um, and that is an attraction to a lot of these regional governments that

not only know, need businesses to be supported, tracking what's happening.

So I'll give an example.

We have a little surplus hotline.

So the municipalities will pay for us to have this hotline.

So any businesses can call us if they stuck, if they're stuck with surplus

and don't know what to do with it.

And we will find an appropriate match for them, um, for free.

Uh, and that way we're, you're removing the barriers for businesses to do the

right thing and the cities get the credit for helping the businesses.

Right on.

And, and I would also point out it, it, it, while it may be obvious otherwise,

that the systems literacy and, and even if you want to call it the systems

imagination that you guys have is a huge, from my perspective, driver of both your

success, but also I, I think what allows your clients to believe, to trust, to,

to buy in, to, to the value proposition, to the concepts that you're offering.

Because again, I think a lot of people, maybe less so hopefully don't

understand the systems of waste, like they just put their garbage

out and then it disappears without realising that there are consequences.

And to your argument that there are options, that there are

better ways of doing things.

How has, and again, you, you kind of touched upon it a little, but how has

your thinking around systems evolved as you've learned more about how

companies, municipalities, regional systems, deal with food waste?

Again, it strikes me that you've had a very unique perspective to see different

touch points within the system that may be self-evident to you now, but for

me, I, I'm kind of sitting here going, wow, and I'm fascinated by it all.

What has it been like stitching that together or has it just always been

self-evident to you because maybe your, you, you system's intuition

is just so fantastic that you kind of see how this stuff's connect.

Help me out here.

I'm, I'm kind of babbling.

I, I would say naturally I'm probably, you know, a systems

thinker and I bring on parts of my team are also a systems thinker.

But in order to get there, you have to break the systems into a component parts.

So think about an org, uh, an organisation, uh, complex, uh, enterprise.

So you're gonna have a lot of different stakeholders that all have

their own fears and concerns and, and motivations for being part of that.

So to go and talk to a multinational retailer, for example, you need to

talk to the sustainability person, the operator, the like, and so that's

just one, uh, node in the network.

Then you gotta go on the recipient side and you, so it is extremely complex, but

once you understand its component parts, and then you see that there's a lot of

synergies, you can start to just match it and then, and then, like I said, get that

in place and then build onto the next one.

And then, and then you get that flywheel effect where things start flowing a

little bit easier, but it doesn't start that way, and you have to be really, it's

a sequence, um, the rollout I suppose.

So I, I don't know if there's necessarily an art or science specifically, but

it is about being very intuitive, listening to the feedback loops,

and then building on accordingly.

Well, and, and I guess I bring that up because I wanted to surface

where the kind of trust or or where the, the, the leap of faith, for lack of a

better word, that I have to imagine.

Some companies and, and some, you know, uh, uh, public institutions have to take,

'cause again, this is self-evident to you.

You kind of see the problem and you see the solution and you start

figuring out kind of how to get there.

But there must be, you must encounter some fear.

You, you must encounter some ignorance, you must encounter some

prejudice when it comes to, you know, the resistance some people have.

How do you manage that?

How do you deal that?

How do you get people to either become infected with the enthusiasm

and optimism that clearly you bring to this particular issue?

Or maybe just around the legal liability stuff, because I imagine that alone

may make some people anxious or nervous to be dealing with food waste,

uh, uh, in, in the broader context.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many layers of complexity.

I don't even know where it's like peeling the onion.

So for example, you know, when I first started this up, I actually didn't

have a background in food systems.

I have a very different background.

Uh, and you know, I was also trying to get my first customer

and raise, do a bit of a raise.

'cause we're, we are a business, I was pregnant at the time, so I had a lot of

question marks about are my, my commitment and my capa my ability to pull this off.

Uh, and so there's a lot of, uh, doubt.

There's a lot of like, people trying to second guess or ask me to, you know,

and, and you just, at the end of the day, you always have to check in yourself,

is this problem worth fighting for?

Is this worth the, the, the complexity to just continue to solve the rubus cube?

And it is, and it still is.

Um, and you surround yourself with also very smart people.

You can't be good at all things.

So the people that are, uh, are on my team, they are pieces of that

puzzle to help us unlock, uh, every complexity as we, and as we grow

and we, we evolve into new services.

Um, you know, it's just another set of problems that you have to work through.

So it's an un it's, it keeps it interesting.

Um, but the problem is, is worthy enough of the, the effort I would say.

Well, and to your, earlier to where you started with that.

You know, as a, a kind of digression question, I often try to argue that

the food sector, the AgriFood sector is on some levels the most accessible

that anyone could, for example, get a job in, you know, service

in retail in elements of AgriFood.

And, and do you think that part of your success lies in your fresh perspective?

Where a again, to go back to kind of where we started, some people accepted

food waste as just an element of the system versus I think you rightly

questioned that and said, now wait a minute, why have you experienced that

with people you bring into your company?

Do, do you experience that in terms of the education work that you guys do?

Yeah, I, I would say, you know, it's one of the big attractants

to work with our organisation.

Like we, we are hiring right now and some of them are getting 700 applicants for

a, you know, an entry level position.

So it's the fact that a lot of people really wanna, uh, feel connected to

the work that you do, uh, especially younger generations, right?

This is important, uh, where, where's the value that they want?

It's a value exchange.

What are the, what's the value that they're creating

and are they valued for that?

Um, and at the end of the day, food is a very visceral, feeling that

every single human, no matter what, you know, socioeconomic or political

leaning, whatever, you know, all the variations that differentiate

us, it is a very unifying topic.

Food waste is a dumb problem that, uh, hurts everybody.

So that is what the one thing that we have going for us, is that it's a very

unifying topic and it's, um, and also not to forget about the environmental

and the economic, the social, I mean, we have growing food insecurity.

Um, it is, uh, it's a huge concern and there are people who have full-time

jobs that still lack the predictable and safe access to nutritious food.

This is not acceptable in our country, and we refuse to give up.

So that is the one thing that our entire team doesn't matter if you're a

software engineer or customer support, we all have that one thing in common.

So I, I have two questions colliding in my head at the same time,

and rather than pick, I'm gonna mash them up with, with the knowledge that, that

there is like an onion much to unpack.

Uh, on the one hand, I'm curious about the geographic elements of what we described,

because I'm assuming the way that culture varies across the country, perhaps food

waste practises vary across the country.

And I'm curious how you may have noticed that or how, as you've

started to enter into new aspects of the country, whether your practises

or your messaging has changed.

But on the flip side, the data element of what you are, uh, gathering and what

you're operating, does that give you unique insights into food insecurity?

Like, does it all of a sudden say, Hey, you know, maybe this part

of the country or this part of a city is hurting more than others.

Again, I'm assuming you get weird sorts of early warning signals because

of your place in, in, in the food ecosystem, in the broader value chain.

Yeah, certainly.

So for sure.

I mean, no, no place is unique.

I, we do some work, uh, called Love Food Hate Waste, where we work with

a lot of municipalities on education and prevention at the household level.

So it's a part of our prevention.

We're getting to prevention space, not just diversion.

And one thing that's really clear is different citizens in different markets

are at different stages in their journey.

And so what's happening in metro Vancouver, the, the education and

all of that we do there is very different than in the prairies

where they're just starting that.

So treating, matching people where they're at on that journey, um, is really

important to bring them along, right?

It's you, not everybody's starts out as an expert.

So working with people with where they're at is part of that process, I would say.

Uh, and absolutely rural, urban, so at the urban level, there's a lot of composting.

It's often obligated.

So more businesses are up to speed on that, but they just think

that, oh, I sent it to compost.

We're good.

We're compliance, like, well, hold on a second.

You've got soup kitchens that are, you know, desperate for that food

that, that, that perfectly good produce that you're discarding.

So what's going on there?

So, uh, and at the rural level, you know, a lot of businesses are like, well,

there's no compost facility, so we're just gonna throw it out in the landfill.

And it's, and it's really cheap because we just get Bob's pickup truck to pick,

drop it off at the local landfill.

It's like, yeah, well there's farmers.

So we have, you know, a quarter million farmers in our, um, in our country.

And if you start to look at that level, like we can, if you wanna

dive in there, you know, we have, I think it's like 260,000 farmers,

uh, operators in the country.

We're losing one to 3000 a year because of some major problems.

And a lot of that, like, one of them is, uh, the, the operating costs.

So feed is one of the largest variable costs for a farmer.

It's gone up 50% since pre COVID, and it's growing five, 5% year over year.

There is a huge amount of nutritional biomass that's go 11 million times a

year that is going to our landfills that could be feeding those farmers.

And if you look at the conventional, uh, feed, um, oftentimes it lacks the

macronutrients that we could be finding in the surplus that we're throwing out.

So there is no excuse to throw food out to landfills.

There are solution providers, but we have to do the work and investigate

who in that area, pr within local, those like hyper-local areas that can

take that food at, at the right time.

Uh, and that's really where we focus.

Um, and the whole farmer's piece piece is really interesting.

And it's, it's growing a momentum.

There's a, you know, a few years ago there were some retailers that were like, there

is no way sending our surplus to farmers.

Uh, they're worried about risk and liability and all these things.

But as you start to really unpack that and you look at the liability

and you teach them, uh, then we're able to get a little bit more headway.

But it's, it's not for lack of effort.

I'll leave it at that.

It's you, you gotta, you gotta stay in it

Well, to that point, you, you kind of alluded to the

difference on the household level.

Is there a difference on the corporate level?

Like are there, are there, is the industry in some part of the country

more aligned with the kind of values that we're describing compared to

others who are earlier on in the journey to use your diplomatic language?

So in terms of like, are businesses more like, are, sorry.

Like industry awareness, for lack of a better phrase.

'cause to your point, I would assume if you went to a chef in downtown

Vancouver, he'd be like, absolutely.

Right?

Like they would instantly be into the programme versus is there

parts of the country on an industry level, on a commercial level, we

need to be doing more messaging.

We need to be doing more education and literacy work.

'cause what, if I'm hearing you correctly, it benefits their bottom line.

Like it's, it's, if anything it's, it's the lack of awareness that

prevents them from better optimising their waste management strategy

versus, I'm hypothesising that there may be people who just are not aware

and therefore do not necessarily see where they fit into this circular

food economy that we're describing.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, at the end of the day, uh, I would say a lot of the larger

corporations typically have a sustainability, uh, person who, uh,

has, it's their job to go and find what's the most sustainable thing.

And food waste is often one of the pillars in of, of a programme.

The, the smaller players and more regional or, um, don't typically have it.

I mean, it's hard to be a business.

The, the

Yeah.

margins are so tight in food businesses that we really

have to, like, we can't impose a lot of restrictions and make it really

hard for them to stay in business.

So we have to keep that in mind.

But, um, yeah, I think letting them know that doing the right thing can save money

and it can improve, like employee morale.

Like the connections that we're creating are, you know, it's, it's very hard for

a, a staff member to be throwing food out and then having to go and visit the

food bank after that absolutely exists.

Uh, and that is just painful.

So at the industry level, I would say that there's not one single

bucket or a couple buckets.

It's every business is different.

And then let's say the champion of that person, they leave.

Oftentimes they're, they're, you know, there's such this dynamic and moving

and it's just this constant effort to keep people like caring and informed

and, and then showing that, you know, that we can do this work reliably and

it becomes part of the systems work.

It's just, it's, it's just an ongoing thing, but it is getting

easier as we continue to prove it out, that it is a viable economic,

and operationally viable solution.

I'd say.

Well, and there's a, a brilliant insight there that

the larger enterprises often have the resources to capitalise on

these types of initiatives, right?

Because they'll have a sustainability officer, they'll

have that internal expertise.

I, I to pivot to talk about policy, you know, I is there and the obvious

is on, on the municipal level, but perhaps on provincial levels.

Is there a way to make it easier for small and medium sized enterprises within

the larger sector to engage in these types of initiatives easier and even be

incentivized and rewarded for doing so?

Right.

Because to your point, they're the ones who tend to not have the

capacity to change their operations or adjust the way they do things

without a little assistance, without a little helping hand to do so.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a big fan of both the carrot and the

stick for, for change management.

know, sometimes you need a bit of both, and it, I don't find it necessarily

super helpful when there's all these like, regional unique bylaws.

Like it's a great start that municipalities are like, if you're

gonna be operating our space, you gotta, you gotta do this.

But it can be confusing.

And, and I don't think that there's a lot of businesses that are totally aware that

they're not in compliance with the law.

Um, and, and so I would say having more macro policy that's consistent across the

board, um, would certainly be a good step.

There's, there's precedent for this in other countries.

Even in the states, there's statewide laws that are mandating the, uh, diversion

of the food, um, and the tracking.

And I know that we glossed back on, or forgot on the data side,

I think we should go back to that because this is a big part of this.

So one of the big problems is the lack of sufficient data

on where this food is going.

It's a lot of like snapshot research, like one and done survey after the fact.

What we've done with our work is that we collect, I think we do about 80,000

scheduled pickups a year, uh, roughly.

Um, and that's growing as we grow, uh, and we work every single pickup,

we track exactly what's picked up.

Uh, and so over time we can start to see some of the trends.

And it's all being har it's, it's, it's harmonised.

So we can start to see where the hotspots are and once we start to understand the

story and where the problems are, um, we, that can help inform policy too.

Uh, and so this, this, this data is, and it's really high fidelity data.

And what we're also doing with some of the municipalities, just to kind of

go back a couple questions, is we're also working with other intermediaries

like the discount apps and, and other pieces of the puzzle to show like a

data aggregator to show what's happening in an area, not just our data, but

like all the players in the space.

And then we can see is the policy that's been in place for 10 years, is it even

effective effecti, are people actually doing what they, so it's a really

good lens into, into the behaviour.

Um, and it can also show where the areas where they need more help.

So I, I know we glossed over that.

I wanted to mention that this is a big, um, big lever, I

would say in change management.

Um, and then going back to on the, on the carrot side of things, we definitely

need to incentivize businesses, uh, and help them out where possible.

I don't know.

Um, you know, there's different, different ideas.

Like you have this circular waste, uh, it's not very, um, but like a circular

waste tax where if you're throwing food out to landfill, there should be

a, I believe, like a, um, uh, a, uh, a fee there that then goes to offset the

people who are actually the circular solution providers and help give

them a boost to do the right thing.

So there's ways that we can design things, but it is a big undertaking.

And I think we gotta do, think about one step at a time with

our overhauling the whole system.

Well, and, and I agree on, on the tax side, because you

need to have some kind of penalty when the alternatives are abundant.

Like it's not as if they don't have other choices and, and the cost of limited

landfill space is also another factor.

But to come back to something you said about what, in my head I kind

of imagined like a dashboard or the vision that you're able to provide

policy makers, do they appreciate that?

Like, I appreciate kind of what you're describing and in my head I, I'm, I'm

kind of having my synapses fire in terms of the, the perspective that you are

able to provide these policy makers, you know, to your earlier point of it took

like five years from you presenting to the regional area for them to finally

wrap their head and start moving on it.

Do people understand the value and the potential of what you're offering to them?

Or are they still wrapping their heads around, uh, around what

this enables and makes possible?

I would say that there's definitely headway.

You know, I, I talk to a lot of different, uh, ministries at the federal, provincial.

I'm, I'm constantly speaking to different, you know, bureaucrats

and, and, and then there's also the revolving door too, right?

So it's this endless, you know, but I, I definitely think that

there is, there is value there.

We have a kind of a unique position because we're, we're the mesh.

Like, we're the connector, right?

So if we can, we can start to stitch together the different

pieces of the puzzle and show what's happening, that there's definitely

value there, but we don't have all the pieces of the puzzle yet.

Um, so it's still becoming a picture, not totally in full focus, but we're,

we're definitely getting there.

Um, so yeah, I mean, we're, but we're just one solution provider.

There's a whole bunch of them.

And, and as there should be, you don't want a monolithic solution, a

true, just like in nature, uh, a, a healthy solution is one that is, uh,

robust and resilient and diverse.

Um, and really what our role is evolving to be, it's not just a

service provider, but the stitching together of all the different service

providers to show that macro picture.

And I think that's the next evolution of this work is to, to, to get in

that direction, to help inform the policy on where does policy need to

and where is it effective and not.

Well, and, and I wanna come back to policy, but, but on

this level of data and, and the value of the data that you guys are, are

collecting and aggregating and amassing.

I mean, for myself, I, I've always been critical of marketing and marketing

claims 'cause they're one sided.

Like for me to believe something, I, I want to hear the positive and the

negative and then make up my own mind.

And yet, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a lot of value in knowing

what people are not buying and knowing what products are being thrown out or

what, what, like, like I'm assuming a lot of loose leaf lettuce, a lot of lettuce

or packaged lettuce has, uh, not been purchased in the wake of some of the food

safety scandals in the United States.

Am I correct in thinking that there's a commercial application to the data

that you guys are, are collecting even if it has to be connected to

other data to kind of close the loop on consumer habits and trends?

it, yeah, absolutely.

So if you think about the work that we're doing, so we're picking up,

uh, what's ended up as shrink, so we don't know that what's purchased.

So there's a gap there.

So we do now what's called a food loss and waste audit once a year with many of our

customers, which looks at the total amount of shrink and where, where it all goes.

So you can start to close the pitch and figure out, well, what's not selling and

where are the anomalies and why is this happening in some markets and not others?

So for sure we're getting into that work.

Um, and, uh, but, but that's a big undertaking.

Um, and we are doing with organisation one at a time.

To do that at macro levels is, is very tricky.

Um, but yeah, there's, I mean the, the amount of waste and,

and where it's happening, it's just, it's just so mind boggling.

Like we talked to some growers, uh, greenhouse growers through hundreds of

thousands of pounds a month surplus.

you have to ask the question, well, why, why are you growing that much?

It's like, well then they have to grow that much because they need to make sure

that there's enough for the customer.

So there's a lot of reasons why there's manufactured waste actually in our system.

So that's, that is another conversation, um, that is very problematic.

The work that we focus on is diversion.

So we're very much down the pecking order, um, of like, okay, well what do you have?

Let's make the best of a bad situation.

Let's just at least recover as much, but you wanna get academic and look

further up and why we're having system, systematic design of surplus food.

Um, I mean that's, that's a whole other ball of yarn, I guess you could say.

So.

Well, well, and, and you know, certainly for this conversation kind

of gets to a, a, a level of abstraction that, that we may lose the audience

because one thing we haven't talked about, but, but that you've alluded

to certainly on the software level, is the logistics of all this, right?

That at a certain point there, there is still kind of moving

food or at least getting people to know that food is available.

You've talked about the human side in terms of having a, a

phone number, people can call.

You've talked about the, the digital technology side, and we've

talked about the marketplace.

And this question I'm asking both as logistics and both as policy.

'cause I, I don't want to get away from the policy conversation,

but how do we move all this food?

How do you guys move all this food?

How do we make sure that the food that is going to be rotten tomorrow

gets where it needs to get today?

I, that's a difficult element to this, that again, we've

been kind of jumping around.

Help me understand how that, that element of this problem gets addressed.

Yeah, I mean that, that is a big question.

And again, there's no single solution.

So with grocery, for example, because it's daily, uh, and there's typically,

uh, folks that already, uh, within around us a grocery store, we do scheduled

pickups so that the, it's it's, they go to the, the food waste generator

site to pick up on a scheduled basis.

And we coordinate that and it's, it's kind of a fixed schedule type thing

with some turn, uh, some churn as people's lives change and so forth.

So, uh, for the ad hoc unplanned surplus, that's a bit trickier.

You do need to coordinate.

Sometimes there is three pl sometimes.

So we, we take those on a case by case basis, um, to coordinate that.

There's times where we're sending product across the country and we have

to work with back hauls because if you think about how it works, a lot of the

major manufacturers are in Ontario, Quebec, they haul it out west, there's

empty trucks and trains going back.

Let's coordinate that.

So I know the food bank systems and there's a lot of other

organisations working on this problem.

Um, and it's about connecting the dots because a lot of these

things are happening in silos.

So again, picking pieces of the onion or there's the onion logistics is a big on

that, but the easiest is find a hyperlocal partner that can pick up in that time.

And then, um, and that's kind of where we find the most success.

Easiest lift, I'd say.

Well, and that back hauling insight again just kind of blew my mind.

And, and I'm wondering if there's a policy opportunity there.

'cause on the, the one hand there's kind of the marketplace of it that,

you know, people price that capacity so that someone else could get it.

But this kind of reminds me of the surplus marketplace.

Is there a surplus in transportation or logistics that is, uh, an

element to this infrastructure that we're, we're describing today?

Yeah, definitely.

I would say instead of a policy, it's more market forces.

It's very painful to have fleets on the road with empty trucks, you know, so

I would say this is where the market economy can really come in and, uh,

but again, it's finding how do you make it as easy as possible for people

to save money, do the right thing.

Um, and yeah, that's, that's another, and there's a lot of

other smart people working on this, like in, in the fleet management.

And, and, and I think that as we get more sophisticated in our, you know,

with AI and our digital, like things are, people are realising that there's

underutilised assets that could be better, better if, if they're connected

to, you know, a new opportunity.

So that's, that's an area that, um, I think could definitely

use some further exploration.

And I think there's people who are doing that at a national level.

We really focus on, like I said, who can pick up.

That's where we focus because it's just a lot easier.

And that way we're able to service the, um, more locations, I'd say.

Well, and we're almost out of time and I do want to kind of ask

you the real big blue sky question, but the, the, the follow up to that one,

and this kind of goes into my trend of like what you've seen change over the

last 10 years, are food banks changing as a consequence of this practise?

And I say this because I have to assume, and maybe there are still some today,

that there are food banks who don't make use of food waste, who only go

through like donations and donated goods.

Are you seeing food banks take more advantage of this kind a

emerging circular food system?

And are they becoming more resilient as a consequence?

You mentioned some of the funding benefits.

Is this helping that part of the sector be stronger and be more

capable and have greater capacity?

I would say without a doubt, absolutely.

Uh, I have seen a huge shift in the food banking systems.

Um, a lot of them are doing perishable food recovery.

When we started this many years ago, uh, a lot of them didn't have

the infrastructure to do that.

So there's been a lot of grants, um, to get the refrigeration, to get the trucks,

um, and then also the connections with the grocery stores before a lot of them,

like there one particular food bank here that's been trying to do food recovery for

many years, they're only getting bakery.

They couldn't get, unlock more food because the corporations are like,

no, like, we're gonna get sued.

It's like, no, you won't.

There's all this legislation if you do things correctly, yada, yada, yada.

So, um, yes, they're, they are participating more.

Another really positive benefit is that there's more sharing.

Uh, we found that typically a lot of the food banks and food rescue agencies

were a bit more, uh, territorial and, and, and more restrictive.

But as we're able to unlock more food, if they can coordinate different days

and provide a full service to the donor, they're gonna lock the full meal deal.

So, um, we find a very positive shift there.

Of course, not all food banks, uh, want to do that, nor can

they, and that's fine too.

It has to be the element of choice on what's right for your organisation.

our job is to support those food banks to make sure that, you know,

they're not stuck with food that they can't use and they're not stuck with

a bill, uh, to, to throw that out.

So that's really where our work comes in, is, is, you know, do they need more

agencies to take this, you know, they go and pick up everything so that the,

the grocery store doesn't have five food banks picking up and onesie twosies.

That doesn't work for them.

So we just try to like, streamline things and make sure, uh, it's just a bit

better, uh, flow, I guess you could say.

Um, but yes, absolutely trending in the right direction, I would say.

Um, but not, not, not all choose that path.

Right on.

Well, and, and let's project that into the future.

I mean, we don't have to get so radical as to say 0% food waste, but what would

it take to get it into the single digits?

Like what is the kinda ecosystem or the infrastructure or the policy environment

that, that you, I suspect you could imagine that, that you envision as

enabling the kinda a, a radical reduction that I, that I, I hope you, you think

is at least theoretically possible.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah, I would say, I said, if you were to break it into like the, the, the

growers for example, like obviously with droughts and floods and fires and all

the variability, but with, with what is, what is left over, working with people

who can dehydrate and value add, like having really great matches for the, uh,

the surplus and, uh, so they know where to go, that would be really great if the,

that, if those are, those are in place.

Um, and know, I, I think in terms of with the food banks, like obviously food banks

were intended to be a temporary solution.

We are always gonna have surplus food no matter what because of just the

way how perishable and how the, the systems work Right now, my hope is

that people aren't not going to the food banks because out of a need.

I, I'm seeing, I don't know if you know about like with thrifting,

like it's a very hipster thing.

People don't do it necessarily a need because it, they do

it more of on a value base.

That would be great if the same is food true for food?

People buy upcycle food because it aligns to their values, not because they

don't have enough money to buy full.

Like, I'm hoping that it's, we're always going to be recovering food, but I'm

hoping it's based out of more of a value space, not because of a need base.

Um, and that, that would be a really great feature in my view.

Right on.

Fantastic.

And so the last question, uh, that we always end on is the shoutouts.

You know, who are the people that you look up to?

Who are the people that inspire you, that you think the rest of

us should be looking forward to?

And this is where I have to qualify and say that this isn't like thanking people

at the Academy Awards, just 1, 2, 3 names.

Not a long list of people who have allowed you to get to the

inspiring position you're now in.

Yeah, I mean, I, first, I, I immediately think of

my team because they're the ones doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

But I, I would say it's the people who have the be and the bonnet that don't

give up the ones in every organisation who are the change makers, and they're

flagging it to the, the decision makers.

Those are the change.

Those are the people that we love and we wanna support and, and give them the

information they need to change their, the, their organisation, whether on

the supply side or the recipient side.

I love those people.

The, the rebel, the change makers.

I have a huge in, um, debt and gratitude to tho those folks because they're the

ones that are making things change.

Right on.

Fantastic.

And, and thank you Jessica.

This has been, uh, not only an inspiring conversation, but an

incredibly intelligent conversation.

'cause I went into this thinking that I understood kind of the nature of the food

waste problem, but I've left it, uh, uh, feeling as if I've just had a masterclass

that leaves me incredibly optimistic about the opportunities that can happen.

So thank you so much.

Sometimes when I finish an interview, uh, for the future herd, I want to just

get it done, put it out there, kind of get it behind me, not so much 'cause I

had any problems with it, but because the knowledge was fresh and easy to integrate.

This episode was different and it was different for a bunch of reasons, and it,

it partly explains why it's been a couple of weeks since we've put out, uh, uh, our

last episode as an aside end of summer.

And the weather was just right.

So I spent a lot of time away from the computer.

But I really felt that this episode, uh, had all sorts of layers and depths, not

just on the issue of food waste, but on the issue of food production, of the food

value chain, of the broader food industry, from the farmer all the way to the eater.

And I really wanted to unpack it.

I wanted to let it sit and kind of ferment, uh, with the other ideas

that are always banging in my head.

And, and that's where I am absolutely grateful for Jessica, her time,

her expertise, and the efforts that she's making in our system in Canada

to create new infrastructure, new cultures, new opportunities when it

comes to how we think about food.

One of the takeaways, of course, is the regulatory environment.

It, it is, I think, remarkable and admirable that entrepreneurs like Jessica

are able to navigate the municipal world, the, the regulatory world, the combination

of entrepreneurial and policy, and at the same time just doing good things.

That's not easy work, obviously.

It's what makes someone a leader, but it also makes me a

quote unquote shit disturber.

Think about how we could advance some of these regulatory conversations

to make it easier for entrepreneurs to make more stuff, whether food,

whether pet food, animal food, even compost using food waste.

I kind of feel there's a real opportunity here to use this as a regulatory lab

to think about ways in which we could be doing things better, to not only

empower food mesh to empower people like Jessica, but to help create and expand

the sector as a whole, whether it's, uh, food upcycling, food diversion.

I'm rambling as I tend to do, but I really love this episode and,

and really thought it touched upon some things that we will explore in

future episodes of the Future herd.

Uh, so give us a listen the future herd.ca.

Share this episode with friends.

Uh, tell us how much you hate us on social media and we'll be back with more,

uh, interesting analysis, understanding and exploration of our food system and

how we're able to nourish ourselves.

Alright, take care.

See you soon.