Transcripts
Hello everyone.
Speaker:Welcome to Live with the Pricing Lady.
Speaker:I am Janene, your hostess.
Speaker:This show is all about helping you build a stronger, more profitable business
Speaker:because you understand the tactics and strategies of pricing and how to use
Speaker:them to build and grow your business.
Speaker:Welcome everyone.
Speaker:And welcome to today's guest, Mandy Bronsil.
Speaker:Hi, Mandy.
Speaker:Hi, Janene.
Speaker:Very nice to be here.
Speaker:I'm so excited to have you here.
Speaker:First of all, why don't you share with us, where are you calling in from today?
Speaker:I'm based, in a very small village called Vicques, which is in
Speaker:between Geneva and Lausanne in the French part of Switzerland.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:Mandy, what would you describe as your superpower?
Speaker:My superpower would be that I feel like people's energy is sort of contagious.
Speaker:When I start to speak to someone, I very quickly understand
Speaker:this is what they transmit.
Speaker:This is how they show their passion.
Speaker:And this is what they should be leveraging in order to move forward.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:That's a great skill to have or superpower to have.
Speaker:Yeah, very insightful.
Speaker:What's one interesting thing you'd like to share with us that
Speaker:most people don't know about you?
Speaker:One of the things that tends to surprise people is that I. I am still,
Speaker:but I definitely was cripplingly shy.
Speaker:Very, very shy person.
Speaker:I think today I'd come across as quite an extroverted person and I
Speaker:do, I talk a lot and I enjoy speaking to people, but it's still hard to
Speaker:get over that shyness, so to speak.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I think, because I also, in certain circumstances, I can be extremely
Speaker:shy myself, and it is, it does take a lot of work when you're, when that's
Speaker:not your natural way of being when being, let's say more extroverted
Speaker:isn't your natural way of being.
Speaker:It requires a lot of energy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's rewarding because you create great connections thanks to it.
Speaker:But yeah,
Speaker:yeah, yeah, well, and I'll share one other thing if you don't mind.
Speaker:We both found out just shortly before this call that we both
Speaker:have a passion for board gaming.
Speaker:Yes, definitely.
Speaker:That was so cool.
Speaker:We'll have to meet somewhere between Basel and Geneva to have a board gaming day.
Speaker:How's that
Speaker:sound?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah, whenever you want.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Mandy, why don't you share with us what your business offers and the value that
Speaker:your clients or customers can get from working with you or using your product?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I started my own business in 2019, just before COVID.
Speaker:And I came out of a period of recruitment actually.
Speaker:Recruitment, headhunting.
Speaker:I really wanted to focus on.
Speaker:Career strategy, supporting people with how do they position themselves
Speaker:in their career develop professionally.
Speaker:And I did do that except things of course, didn't go quite according to
Speaker:plan in part, thanks to COVID and in part, that's just starting a business.
Speaker:But I still provide career roadmap services.
Speaker:I do a lot of facilitation for workshops, team communications, and currently I'm
Speaker:creating a mastermind groups so that small business owners can get together.
Speaker:Support each other through the highs and lows of working as an entrepreneur
Speaker:and hold each other accountable and just sort of get out of the one way
Speaker:of thinking, but to leverage the, the cognitive diversity, I would say.
Speaker:That is also a really big part of the value in it.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Lots.
Speaker:There's a lot in there.
Speaker:How exciting.
Speaker:Why don't we dig a little bit then into the pricing journey that you've had?
Speaker:What inspired you to really start your business?
Speaker:And what were your initial thoughts about pricing when you began?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I was inspired by, I think like many entrepreneurs really wanting to help
Speaker:people in the way that I can add value.
Speaker:And I think this is really a big driver.
Speaker:What I wanted to do was just to be able to support them through
Speaker:the different, the different journeys they were going through.
Speaker:And I think this is quite relatable as well, that pricing
Speaker:was like a necessary evil.
Speaker:You know, oh, I've got to put a price on it, but I love to do what I do and
Speaker:I've just got to put a price on it.
Speaker:And it's like, you've got to put a price tag or on your own value.
Speaker:So I think my pricing journey specifically has been coming to terms with that
Speaker:and getting comfortable with it.
Speaker:And also getting comfortable with the fact that there is no right and wrong price.
Speaker:It has to feel right for you.
Speaker:It has to make sense.
Speaker:I mean, people have got to be ready to to buy that and see the value in it.
Speaker:But at the end of the day, there is no right and wrong.
Speaker:So that's really been my journey within within my business pricing wise.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think that a lot of people would probably agree with you that at the
Speaker:beginning, and they may even feel so now, but that pricing was like a necessary
Speaker:evil or something that they, they had to do, but they didn't really, it
Speaker:wasn't something they enjoyed for sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's a bit double because you want to make money as an entrepreneur and
Speaker:you have to actually, but you also want to, it's part of the, the feeling
Speaker:that you're growing, but at the same time, it's, it's hard to communicate
Speaker:it because you're doing what you love.
Speaker:So how can you charge for doing something that comes easily and naturally to you?
Speaker:I think that there's this natural.
Speaker:Push push and pull effect.
Speaker:And what, what have you been able to do to sort of overcome that?
Speaker:Yeah, I worked a lot on my money mindset.
Speaker:I think that was really one of the things, I mean, of course I did the
Speaker:market research, I did my surveys.
Speaker:I asked people, where do you see that?
Speaker:I did all of that, but I really did a lot of work on my own mindset around it.
Speaker:So sort of.
Speaker:First of all, becoming comfortable with making an offer, asking for a
Speaker:certain amount, saying the numbers and just feeling, creating a better
Speaker:relationship with money because it's not just about what do you earn, but
Speaker:it's also about how am I reinvesting?
Speaker:How are the others growing as a result of what you're receiving,
Speaker:of what you're giving them?
Speaker:And so it's sort of this whole holistic approach, which I'm now able to see.
Speaker:And I wasn't very clear on before.
Speaker:. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. I like that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Money mindset is a big part.
Speaker:Actually, let me say mindset in general is a big part of starting your own
Speaker:business, but certainly a pricing also.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Very true.
Speaker:So many entrepreneurs struggle with setting the right price
Speaker:for their products and services.
Speaker:How did you go about determining your prices initially?
Speaker:I think initially I probably put a price, that was almost like what felt
Speaker:now looking back like apologetic pricing.
Speaker:Like, I'm sorry, I have to charge you.
Speaker:And so probably like many entrepreneurs, I started out just really saying,
Speaker:Sorry, I have to charge you this.
Speaker:So, you know, and then at some point I realized I was undercharging and
Speaker:the risk of undercharging is that you're perceived as that can't
Speaker:possibly be good value for money.
Speaker:So I really had to work on that part to sort of understand
Speaker:where is the real value.
Speaker:I always kept in contact with the people I've worked with and
Speaker:I've always asked for feedback.
Speaker:I've always been very transparent, especially when I started something new.
Speaker:I'm at the start of this journey.
Speaker:I need feedback.
Speaker:I'm going to give you the best that I can give, but I also want to know what
Speaker:was worth it and what wasn't so that I could make that separation for myself
Speaker:of where should I be putting my energy and how should I be communicating?
Speaker:That's really how I went about setting it.
Speaker:Market research was a part of it, but it was mostly what helped me was.
Speaker:Keeping in touch with my clients and just really listening to their feedback.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:That's so important, right?
Speaker:So the, I always joke with people that the answer to almost every pricing question
Speaker:starts with, it depends on who you're targeting because so many of the answers
Speaker:to the questions that people ask can be found when they do understand that.
Speaker:So yeah, I think that's a, that's a great point.
Speaker:And I, I love your apologetic pricing.
Speaker:That's probably a pricing strategy that isn't officially on the books,
Speaker:but it's one that a lot of people use.
Speaker:It felt like that.
Speaker:It really did.
Speaker:You know, I really Felt bad.
Speaker:I thought, well, I would do it for free, but, but then that's not sustainable.
Speaker:So it would Yeah, of course.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Whereas now I've managed to turn that around, but yeah.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. So now one of the things that you mentioned was that you
Speaker:started in 2019, and then of course we had COVID hit in 2020.
Speaker:What happened?
Speaker:I'm guessing that based on what you said you did early on, that you had
Speaker:to shift things in your business.
Speaker:What was that and how did that impact your pricing?
Speaker:For me, the big, big shift and consequently huge pricing impact was
Speaker:that I started out working more B2B.
Speaker:My idea was to work with companies and to help them keep their top talent
Speaker:or their people in general, because there's a big problem with retention.
Speaker:They pay a lot of money to hire people.
Speaker:And then finally that person leaves and they don't know what happened.
Speaker:Whereas if they would have, you know, looked a bit closer, stayed in touch.
Speaker:And so there I could really support them with that sort of keeping
Speaker:their talent, but that's B2B.
Speaker:And so what, which is what I've been doing.
Speaker:throughout my career.
Speaker:And then when COVID hit, I was not a priority anymore.
Speaker:Everyone was just, you know, in total urgency, getting everyone
Speaker:to be able to work from home.
Speaker:And so all the mandates that I, all the mandates, I mean, I was
Speaker:at the beginning of my journey.
Speaker:The mandates that I had started to gather and get in the
Speaker:pipeline sort of disappeared or became unsure for the future.
Speaker:And basically I had this really huge.
Speaker:No man's land in front of me.
Speaker:So then what I did at that point was I started to think first of
Speaker:all, how do I get online as well?
Speaker:And second of all, what are the questions I keep getting asked?
Speaker:And all the time people were asking me about, you know, how do
Speaker:I position myself in my career?
Speaker:How do I know?
Speaker:What I want to do, you know, one thing is wanting to leave your
Speaker:job, but what do you do instead?
Speaker:And how do you evaluate the risk of, you know, leaving security behind?
Speaker:So I poured all of this into the form of an online course that leads people
Speaker:from thinking of, I don't want to be doing this forever, but what do I want?
Speaker:To the point of, okay, now I know what I want.
Speaker:How am I going to go about it?
Speaker:How am I going to put, get my, how am I going to get my ducks
Speaker:in a row in order to get that?
Speaker:So that was the big shift that happened during COVID.
Speaker:And then bit, so then I got into the B2C part and bit by bit,
Speaker:things started balancing out.
Speaker:Now I work again a lot with companies as well.
Speaker:I do a lot of facilitation too, but I've kept the B2C side because I do feel that
Speaker:that's where we can have the most impact.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what, what did you find to be the biggest difference between
Speaker:pricing B2B and pricing B2C?
Speaker:I mean, the amount that you can charge.
Speaker:And I went from, you know, like pretty comfortable numbers to.
Speaker:I need a lot of volume.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Pricing wise, that was the huge shift to go from, you just need a few clients
Speaker:a month to, okay, you need volume now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Makes sense.
Speaker:When it comes to pricing setbacks or challenges.
Speaker:Have you faced any and what lessons did you learn from those?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think for me, it's been a bit of a mystery.
Speaker:I feel like I've tried different pricing strategies.
Speaker:I've tried the low entry point and then typically the funnel to
Speaker:get people moving into the funnel.
Speaker:I've tried just giving one offering and sticking to that.
Speaker:Which was relatively high priced, but.
Speaker:Good, good value for money.
Speaker:But it was, it was not something like you had to make an investment in yourself.
Speaker:I feel like all of them (the pricing strategies) have
Speaker:worked and not worked at times.
Speaker:For me, the conclusion that I came to that really makes the difference is,
Speaker:is the way I communicate it and the energy, the conviction that I have.
Speaker:If I'm sort of in this apologetic mindset, pricing attitude, I'm not
Speaker:buyable, I wouldn't buy from myself.
Speaker:And people feel this.
Speaker:And when I'm really convinced about something and I feel like, right,
Speaker:this makes sense, even if it's higher priced, people see that.
Speaker:And so the big difference and the learning for me has been.
Speaker:It's how you present it and it's how much you believe in it.
Speaker:You know, you're not going to convince anyone of anything.
Speaker:You have to know that what you're putting out there is value.
Speaker:You believe in your service.
Speaker:You believe in your product.
Speaker:You believe that you can help the people.
Speaker:The rest will come.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Yeah, that's a really, that's a great point.
Speaker:So many people, when they come to me, they're asking, you know, how
Speaker:do I feel confident about this?
Speaker:And I think sometimes they think if somebody tells them a number,
Speaker:then they'll feel more confident.
Speaker:And this is where I struggle because some of the gurus out
Speaker:there say, okay, everybody who has a course should price it for 9.
Speaker:99, but that's not fit for everybody.
Speaker:It's not fit for every customer.
Speaker:You know, There's more to it than that.
Speaker:And being able to understand why that price makes sense for your business
Speaker:and for your customers, it's that, that combination of things that really
Speaker:helps you to feel that confidence.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And for you, I always say that if you're in, in doubt, how
Speaker:would you want to be treated?
Speaker:How would you want to be sold to?
Speaker:You know, there's always the question as well that I hear of.
Speaker:Do you give your price up front or not?
Speaker:What kind of a person are you?
Speaker:Do you want to know straight away or do you first want to hear about the benefits?
Speaker:And then later, you know, like, do you want to be seduced first?
Speaker:And everyone's a little bit different.
Speaker:So I think that if we want to attract our ideal clients, we need to communicate
Speaker:to them in a way that comes naturally to us, because if we're doing it in a
Speaker:different way, we're going to attract the wrong kind of people that we're not
Speaker:really going to be wanting to work with.
Speaker:So again, you know, communicate it or not, but what works for, for
Speaker:you, what would you want to see?
Speaker:And just go back to that when, when in doubt.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I think that's a, that's a wonderful point.
Speaker:Another thing that you shared with me.
Speaker:When we, so for those of you who don't know this already often
Speaker:have a pre call with people
Speaker:during the pre call was the importance for you of setting up boundaries.
Speaker:Like you shifted into doing a lot of freelancing work and you learned some
Speaker:things through pricing in that context.
Speaker:Can you share with us more about that as well?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So I think that indeed, as you say, I, I actually still, I'm
Speaker:part of a lot of associations.
Speaker:I do a lot of things for free.
Speaker:But at some point that was taking up a really, a lot of time.
Speaker:And so I just had to reevaluate why am I doing the things I'm doing and
Speaker:where should I be putting my focus?
Speaker:Because at the end of the day, I love all of the stuff I do.
Speaker:I love the associations I'm part of, but to be realistic about how much
Speaker:energy and time do I put into them and then balance things out a little bit.
Speaker:And also with, you know, the business side of things, I found that I was putting
Speaker:a lot of energy into an association and I was neglecting maybe my sales part.
Speaker:Which, that doesn't really make sense.
Speaker:So just to, to put boundaries in place in that sense, even part of them were
Speaker:just for myself, you know, my own boundaries, you know, I didn't, you
Speaker:know, then you've got to communicate them, but just to know this is enough.
Speaker:It does not make sense to go further into this part.
Speaker:I need to now focus on the other side.
Speaker:But things are in balance and that I also feel if you only
Speaker:give, you also get frustrated.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then you think, well, you know, this is, this is not fair.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, that's not the right, again, energy or attitude to have.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's very true.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I learned that through my own experience because I was
Speaker:like... Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:I mean, the boundaries are so important in so many different aspects.
Speaker:And when you don't have them, you don't always realize it until... Until it's,
Speaker:I won't say too late until it's getting to the point where it's almost too late.
Speaker:I don't know if you find this as well, but then there's also the over delivering.
Speaker:And, and I think it's really important to be clear on what
Speaker:are people buying from you?
Speaker:Why are they working with you rather than someone else?
Speaker:And focus on that because you, you can do all the things, but
Speaker:you can't do all the things.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:But why did they choose to work with you?
Speaker:And that has to be top quality.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's, I mean, that's a big part of, of your pricing as well, because again,
Speaker:it then relates to the value that people get and what they expect based on how you
Speaker:presented it to them in a sense, right?
Speaker:So it's all, it's all connected.
Speaker:I love this.
Speaker:Talk about it forever.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's fascinating.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:It's a big journey.
Speaker:Are there any pricing related tools or resources that you've found
Speaker:particularly helpful in your own journey?
Speaker:I don't know if they'd be Or money mindset related, because you said
Speaker:Yeah, I don't know if pricing as such, but I have so I've hosted
Speaker:my, my online course on a platform.
Speaker:And I find that automating things helps me a lot because I don't need to
Speaker:manually make offers the whole time.
Speaker:I just send people a link and then they are led through that part.
Speaker:So I don't need to constantly be sending out information, sending
Speaker:out quotes, which I realized that.
Speaker:When I was doing it more, I was procrastinating on, cause you know, I'd
Speaker:be fiddling around with, well, maybe I can squeeze in a discount there, or
Speaker:even just, where do I put what line?
Speaker:What do I call pricing?
Speaker:Do you call it the investment?
Speaker:Do you call it the price?
Speaker:Do you call it?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:And every time.
Speaker:This was taking me time.
Speaker:So the fact that I can break my head over this once, and then I just put it
Speaker:online and I send out the link and then I don't need to look at it anymore.
Speaker:I don't need to think about it because I'll overthink it.
Speaker:That has helped me a lot to take care of them.
Speaker:To make it easier.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, there's something to be said for making it.
Speaker:It's the last, the last episode I released was about going from time
Speaker:based prices to package pricing.
Speaker:And one of the benefits of that is not creating bespoke offers for every,
Speaker:as we say in, in the U S Tom, Dick and Harry, who walks through the
Speaker:door, every guy or gal who walks in.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Because it can take a lot of effort and energy to do those things.
Speaker:So it's good to have those set up now, of course you'll, from time to time,
Speaker:you'll have clients who come in and ask for something different than you've
Speaker:offered before, then it makes sense to spend the energy, but for most of it,
Speaker:you want to actually be able to get that offer out the door within a day or
Speaker:two at the, at the most so that you can continue the conversation with them.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So that's, yeah, working effectively and efficiently is really great.
Speaker:And I also think that we underestimate or overestimate how
Speaker:often we need to make it personal.
Speaker:Because we can personalize everything, but it's not necessary.
Speaker:The added value that we're going to give, because this line says it this way, rather
Speaker:than that way, at the end of the day, they, if they're going to work with you,
Speaker:it's probably because of who you are, because of what you know, because of how,
Speaker:what they don't care about the details.
Speaker:And so I think that.
Speaker:So I really thought like I have to make it much more personal than it actually is.
Speaker:Like the information I'm giving is already enough in most of the cases.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:One of the things that I've done to like personalize things sometimes
Speaker:is when I send the offer, I send it with a little loom video.
Speaker:Oh, and I find that that actually, because then it creates the little gift and gift.
Speaker:And then when people open their inbox, they see your smiley face, well,
Speaker:hopefully smiley face in the gift.
Speaker:And that actually people really enjoy.
Speaker:I use those in many different contexts, but they really enjoy getting them.
Speaker:And it's hard to resist clicking on it.
Speaker:That's a really good tip.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm going to look that one up.
Speaker:Well, so why don't we start wrapping this up?
Speaker:For.
Speaker:For entrepreneurs and small businesses who struggle with pricing, what would
Speaker:you say is the biggest takeaway they can take from our discussion today?
Speaker:I mean, I think there's a part of courage to play in this, like
Speaker:just pick a price, put it out there and test, see what happens.
Speaker:Stay in touch with your clients, ask them what they think about it and
Speaker:don't be scared to test things out.
Speaker:And I find that if you tell people.
Speaker:I'm trying this out.
Speaker:I want to hear what you think about it.
Speaker:Even if you think it's totally off, tell me.
Speaker:You get closer and closer and eventually you get it right.
Speaker:don't really know what happened along the way, but yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's a great point.
Speaker:That's a great point.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Just, I always call it the Nike strategy.
Speaker:Just do
Speaker:it.
Speaker:How can, if people would like to find out more about you or connect
Speaker:with you, where can they find you?
Speaker:I think the best, the best place is, is LinkedIn.
Speaker:I love LinkedIn.
Speaker:I think it's a great tool.
Speaker:I love to see what people are up to, what they're what they're publishing.
Speaker:And I think it's a nice way to get in touch.
Speaker:And I always like to.
Speaker:To have connections and to see who knows who actually is fantastic.
Speaker:It is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So we'll put that link and all other links to Mandy's website and whatever
Speaker:in the show notes for you, everybody.
Speaker:My very last question for you, Mandy, is what's next for you and
Speaker:your business in terms of growth and maybe your pricing strategy?
Speaker:So in terms of growth at the moment, I would really love to develop the
Speaker:mastermind groups because it's a community that's growing and it's really something
Speaker:that I sort of suddenly understood.
Speaker:We need this.
Speaker:There's nothing quite like it.
Speaker:There's networking and you know, there's like but this is really like
Speaker:a community where people hold each other accountable, they grow together.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:That's my focus at the moment.
Speaker:It's interesting in terms of pricing, because I'm struggling with how to make
Speaker:it sustainable in terms of revenue.
Speaker:Like at the moment, it's like top heavy in terms of my investment.
Speaker:I'm doing it with a lot of love and a lot of passion and energy.
Speaker:But then if I think pricing wise, like.
Speaker:The rate I have now is not sustainable.
Speaker:So I will need to have a better strategy on that.
Speaker:But for that, I'm doing exactly what I said.
Speaker:I'm just staying in touch with people and understanding where is
Speaker:the value and how much would I be able to put it up to realistic.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:I look forward to hearing more about those mastermind groups.
Speaker:And I'm sure if we go to your webpage or connect with you on LinkedIn,
Speaker:we'll see and hear more about that.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:Mandy, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker:I really appreciate you being here and sharing your story with us.
Speaker:Thank you, Janene.
Speaker:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker:Thank you for the questions and for the welcome.
Speaker:You're very welcome.
Speaker:Have a great day, everyone.
Speaker:And as always, enjoy pricing.