In Part 2 of this monster interview with Peter Parker, we go through the development and releases of Fingathing, and how a strong bond was formed which went way beyond just guys in a band. We go through the good times, into what unravelled into a dark period in Dan’s life.

As you heard there, this second sitting of the interview kind of ended at an appropriate time to align with the end of act 2 of Dan’s tale. We’ll be back with you in a week or so for the final instalment of the Peter Parker story. Until then take care and you’ll hear from me soon.

Reach Dan on his instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danpeterparkerbaxter/

Fingathing on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialfingathing/

Adam Gow 0:07

Welcome back to once a DJ. On this episode, we pick up where we left off with Dan Baxter, aka Peter Parker. We ended part one at the point of Dancehall, and with the Grand Central band and finger thing started to take shape. In the words of Dan himself, let's go. So at what point with the touring was it whilst you were on tour that you realised, right? We need to do an album an album of this? I was it mark that suggested it.

Peter Parker 1:14

Adam Gow 5:30

Yeah. So what was what was the process like with the album, did it? Did it take a while doing the first album? Or was it like Bosh? Bosh? Bosh?

Peter Parker 5:41

Right. So what happened was, at that time, when I was talking about the eardrum night that was going on at collider with the double bass and the drummer playing over the tunes, and that the drummer was a guy called James Ford. Right, James Ford now is possibly a dare I say, like the like the sort of George Martin, of producers. Right now. He had, like, I think three of the Mercury Music nominated artists, he produced three of the albums, like this guy is just an he had the talent then, but now he has become if you see what I mean. And what it was, was like, oh, James is James is doing some production now. Why don't you go in with him. And between him and sneak there was just this massive level of trust. Because they've been already playing and doing all this, they were great friends. And I just slotted into that. You know, I just slide into that. I just want it to be around people who are fucking more talented. And just, you know, try and soak it up and be myself, but just very, very eager. And yeah, there was this place in d'esprit and the son has a group called Simeon. He'd started this group called Semyon and was producing their album at the time. We actually did an EP first. Right, let me just rewind a little bit before the EP, there was a tune called Atomic Drop. It was like central heating. So central heating to was grand Central's sequel to central heating one, which was a big compilation showcase for all the artists on the label. Yeah. We've been touring and doing all this stuff and slotted in it's like, right, centrally in TOS coming up. Do you want to do a tune? To go on that? Like, Fuck, yeah, let's go, you know, how are we going to facilitate this? And it was James, he was like, the sort of missing piece in terms of like, how can we get together and record something. But it was the same principle of like, we took, I don't think I don't think we had a demo. It wasn't like, Oh, I've made this and you gotta go and record it in a studio. And we went with ideas. And I think that's how we wanted it as well, because he wanted to, like CO produce. So it wasn't like, you know, we've got this idea we go in, and he kind of, you know, polishes it down and like takes off the raw edges. And, you know, makes it like this lovely finished product. It was more like us just going in with like a load of audio Lego. And then we get into his room, and we just start building and, you know, it's like, Oh, Dan, what are you into? I love arcade games, kung fu films, wrestlers, comics, cartoons, you know, metal, and sneak is just like, right? Well, I've got a double Blace I can have a great HLS it's looking like, oh my god, you know? And yeah, we just set about like, right, let's throw a load of that in. And I ended up using like a just various bits and bytes, you know, various parts. And we were literally just like, I wouldn't say cobbled because I don't think that's the right. Like we had the intention of making something killer, you know, so that's not cuddling is a?

Adam Gow 9:09

No, did you when you were making it? Did you have conversations and kind of break it down in a way of like, okay, we're building this thing. But if we build it like this, this is how we can play it out.

Peter Parker 9:23

Yeah, so yeah, you definitely like when we, when we will go out and do the stuff on tour with rain, Christian, and whatnot. All I really had to use at that point was kind of scratch records. You know, they're the ones that have the sounds on and they're the ones that have the sounds on with the bits that I need next to each other. It's not just you know, so at that point, that was actually all I could really go in news, because that was all I really had access to that would be how could you say like a producer's perspective, but from behind turntables. It's So to be able to put something together and yeah, that was that was always like yeah, I guess like a stipulation, you know, we want to be able to do this but I think at that time, I was just so sucked into like the scratch pickles and seeing them scratch drums my Do you not I mean seeing them scratched rooms, it just changed everything like, because I started to see almost all the sounds, I wanted to just do the same patterns that I would do when I would scratch drums and stuff like that. And then you just kind of find the more that you start listening to all these different sounds, some apply better, to, you know, certain ones than to others. And it's just like a process of elimination until you find whatever it is that you're tweaking. It just sounds sick. You know, like, wow, you know, I just felt sick. Yeah,

exactly. I think listening back to it. You can really hear the kind of scratch pickles influence, particularly Mike because it's got that like cinematic thing to it as well. Like,

so. The Yeah, like the thing about is like, I was into all of that shit when I was growing up from my own volition, like when I liked the Jeff love records and the jaws themes and the string orchestration and everything. That's some of my oldest memories. There was a Japanese girl that came, unfortunately for her to my school for a bit. And there were so many creature features of the Godzilla films, so me and a couple of the other nerds who were like bangin so that they were showing them on Channel Four, like late on on a Friday night. I was obsessed with like, clucking these I fucking love them. And then we befriended the Japanese girl. And we'll get her to write the names of the Godzilla films in Japanese because it just fought it looks sick. But we had no idea how to do it. You know what I mean? And then you get bollock for like, ruin in the lesson and fucking do it already in or out, and I'll ruin it for her or whatever. But like, all these things, what Mike did was like, introduced like, Nah, you could look at it like this, you know, like, the way that he does, every fan is different. Anyway, it's like and then so on that risk of fury. I saw that and he's like, showing bits of gamma films, I had no idea about gamma. And I didn't know what that was, and a bit of an ultrasound film as well. But I know I'm like, what's going on? I love all these like, creature features, like, how come I haven't seen that stuff? Because it just not had access to Japanese Telly, you know, like the, you know, apart from like, Battle of the planets and all the stuff, you know, the stuff that did come like direct from Japan, everybody else in the UK. But yeah, monster films. I think Channel Four just thought it was like a niche thing. So I'll say they would just show it but it became like a new obsession when that started.

Yeah, so something else I wanted to ask you about on the first album. And this is kind of getting a bit granular but I think it's a really interesting one is like you fly me. Is that the biggest tune on the album? Today downloads wise. And that's the tune is not got any scratching on? Yeah, right. Yeah. So for you in recording that, uh, you like, so it's kind of like Ringo knew to not go mental. Right? When he was doing Phil's into flat. He knew when he didn't need to be there. Were you like, this doesn't need me aren't like what, like, how was it for you? Or was it someone else's idea for you not to call on it? No,

it wasn't. It's just like I saw I just brought the drums, the drums in that. They are like, when I heard of the sharp sauce like this? Sometimes, yeah. What do you mean the sharp and you're like just buy in. It's like being at sea into the future like that. This light is an instant love affair with just a bit of audio or whatever. And it's like, this is going to be amazing, whatever this touches. And so with the album this is kind of jumping forwards and backwards a little bit but with the album, we ended up kind of writing some demos. And then I think what did we do? It was like it was like, okay, like that 70% snake like that you fly me that arrangement and everything he just got. He got on it was it was I hope he doesn't mind me the same but it was it was like it was a love letter to his partner, you know, and that year hear me let me do some scratches on it. Yeah, it's gotta go. Yeah. Yeah, that's why it's low cut. So you know, it's like he Uh, yeah, it's like he wrote that. And I was like, oh my god, like these drawings. This is this is it. And then it was like, oh record and a bit of triangle and some shakers and stuff. And I think if I remember right when he went in to record that I wasn't there, I just already put the drums down. And it was like, right, okay. Because when you're doing an audio love letter to your partner, you know, I mean, you don't want a fucking scrap, you know, or whatever. There's a huge amount of respect between us, you know, where it's like, maybe, yeah, knowing and knowing when something's not right, and having them being able to swallow whatever it is, you know, and be like, actually, I don't think I needed. All right, I don't think it's necessary. You know, what's a so is when someone comes back, and he's like, Nah, you are needed, and you are going on it. That's cool. You know, but for someone to come forward and just be like, I'm not so sure. It's cool. Because it can start a transaction. Maybe someone's saying that because they feel uncomfortable. Or maybe they feel really sure about it. But if someone comes back and says, like, you know what you are like, I can hear what you should be doing? Or I think you should go here or that can like instil a massive amount of confidence when you don't normally other you know. So, yeah, but the you find me, so basically, after the after, essentially, into we made that track, it was like, yeah, there's a there's a goal. This is what we signed in like, you know, it did pretty well. It was received, you know, and then it was only a couple of months before like, guys do an EP, were like, Let's go, let's just you know, and this whole time, they was like, What can I put this looks like fireworks going off, you know, my life, all of a sudden, I'm not in Asda a bit, this one thing. And now I'm going all over the place. And in my downtime. I'm going to record in studios, which are only bedrooms. I mean, the bedrooms with some good care. But to me, like I was like, it's like, Fuck, man. I've done it. I've done it. This is it, you know. And so yeah, we were offered a, we were offered a, we made the EP, which was another thing, just making stuff from the ground up. And at that point, we wanted to use the baseline that sneek had first on, which is fat, add the brown owl in it. And then that one that was like, that was something that he'd had up his sleeve. And he just saved it for this one time when it was just me in the room, really. But we wanted to record that we were like this thing that we did. That's who we are. That's an important part of it. It's not just about sampling some beats and cotton and recorded some bass on it. It's like, we do it all between us. Just let us do that as well. Yeah. And Max, like for sure. Go for it. Go for it. And then we bring back this thing and it's like build up ever. And they pluck it Mark was just like Parker, this is dope. You know, that's what you want

to hit every time you refer to when you say Right, I'm saying Parker I just imagine Jameson. How Spider Man back here. Yeah,

though. Parker? Yeah. That's kinda like, Oh, yeah. pakka pull that bloody camera down. Or, you know, yeah. Like, I was holding a camcorder on the the other stage at Glastonbury, you know, like, 17,000 people are just having a time of our life like this. And we're actually doing a gig, but I've just fucking filled this pocket. Yeah, I've got some footage from that as well. I'm just gonna get it converted. I've got these aren't. Yeah, I've got these old tapes. So that baldachin to anyone who's listening if you want to actually hear that it did actually happen and it'll probably be on YouTube in a few months.

So at what point did you bring in the friend of ours from college? i Sorry, I forget his name the for to do in the great yeah, for doing the graphics.

Yeah, so Chris, right. This is another cool story. So Chris Drori right. So before I did the DMC thing I said I was at art college and Matt and I met Chris there we became best friends because he was on this corner table where I thought all the coolest lads were they were all in software park they all smoked weed. And that you know, like fuckin tick tick

the bed stones being cool when you seven to come on,

you know? And yeah, what happened was I slowly started making my way over to their table and light which did the adds in of the guys that were on the tables where I was originally, I was sorry about that, but it's just the way it was. But me and Chris became best friends and and then when I went to retake the year Uh, like Chris past, Chris was actually just as bad as me in terms of, you know, the amount of fun time that he liked to have whilst at art college, you know, but he's natural talent shone through. So when it came to crunch time, you know, he could appear and just do great work and and get through. Whereas I didn't I just didn't you know, I had issues with finishing things and you know, which, as I'm finding out, there's a bit more to it, you know, with the ADHD and all that. But anyway, I didn't finish. Chris went on to Salford uni and ended up sharing a house with various people. One of whom was sneak. Yeah, right. Yeah. So, me and snake like me and Chris parted ways, and I missed him. I remember like, just Yeah, it was it wasn't it wasn't good, because things weren't working right for me for a little bit. And I missed him a night all that that whole crew from Ronk online, but Chris in particular, and yeah, like so this one time, we had a gig at the jazz Cafe we're reading, reading Christian, I think this is 1998 or 1999. There was a City Life magazine. And Chris was with sneak in a newsagent. And we were all in this city life. So photo, and they open this page. And he's like, fucking no way that Stan like this. And snakes like what? You know him? And he's like, Yeah, I used to go to college with him. And snakes. Like, I'm, I'm in a band with him. And he's like, no, like, yeah, yeah. So see comes and tells me he's like, do you know this guy, Chris, Jory? I'm like, Yeah, I know, Chris, like, and he's like, I've been living with him for like, however many years and then they've built this relationship. And they're like, they're busy mates and having a boss. But in their way. It's fucking crazy. And then and it was this jazz Cafe gig. I got to meet sneaks brother jazz. And Chris came down with them. So I got to see Chris. So here I am going on for months at this guy. Like how this thing is meant to be. And it was our destiny to be this two piece band doing this thing. Chris turns up and I'm like, this is weird as fuck. Like, this is no no. And it was like, it was a beautiful moment. I'm like, shit, man, like my old busy mate, my new busy May. Let's go you know, and what transpired was, it turned out that like, they had to move out. And they ended up getting this shared house right in an apartment Manchester heat emergency. And I went to visit them. And when I saw this house, it looked like somewhat from neighbours. Now. I don't know whether you remember the start and neighbours when they go down Ramsey Street and you've got like these massive like suburban dream. Like dream houses. It looked like one of them. You know, so I was like, what's fucking I need to be living in I want to live it I don't want to live like there's mice in the fucking gafware I don't want to live we you know, and went round there and opened the door and it's chaos, just chaos that maybe nine or 10 peeps live in their pocket? How do I get in there and what you know what you know. And anyway, it was just crazy. Like, it was just like this moment of like that affirmation, you know, that like just instilling this belief that like this is this is what has to happen. And Chris was in like a balmy job, but he basically gone on to do art to do this hide at uni and acquired all like, you know, quite sick skill level. And I did end up moving in and getting a room and Chris was doing a job and he didn't like it. And he would go to the pub on the way home and go and sit in this pub with a sketchbook and draw people in just like people watching and just from his like, perspective, like the way he draws now he's always drawn up I'd say warped it is what you know, I guess like that's the best thing and I don't mean that in a negative way. I just mean walked as in the way he sees things and the way he sees people gives him the ability to draw like he does and anyway, I'm like Chris, like fuck your job. Yeah, like we're gonna like what we're gonna do like you you do some artwork for us or that that was the so the two player EP it's like Chris we need artwork as your graphic design job you know like you got a book for me and SNI he didn't like and then it was like right when it's all about wrestling Adil wrestling fingers and because we'd already come up with the name like we're going to be called finger thing that was me Mark and sneak in the back of a boss on one of these reigning Christian tours just absolutely blitzed and brainstorming because that's all it ever was. So you know, you're just constantly making up stuff that you end up being the inspiration that you take home with you to sort of, you know, keep making music and whatnot. Like, yeah, got to be called finger thing. And, yeah, that was Chris's, like, right. Okay, well, I'll just draw these wrestlers then. And they're going to be made out of fingers and shit like that. Okay. And then he started doing them, and it would take them to Grand Central and show them you know, now like, this is brilliant. Keep going. Next thing the light, right? Do some stickers, you know, and and then when it came to like, the, the album, concepts and everything, and it was like, Chris, just fuck your job off. Yeah, we're gonna go on tour, you're gonna come with us. I don't know how we're gonna do it. But we're going to you're going to come. So there's going to be drawings while we're playing. Do you know what I mean? And and that was it. That was that was what we that was what we kind of intended to do. So I think it was just with me, sort of having this level of belief, or like, just infecting Chris with it as well, you know, to the point where he did. He just slacked off and we just, yeah, it was mad. It was mad. Because at the same time, like, oh, like about six months after I got like, the first sort of guerrillas promo. And the talking about this cartoon band. I'm like, What the fuck?

Yeah.

What the fuck Well, and that's our shit. Like, where the fox who's this where, you know, and then they, I remember reading the promo sheet that got the single and meeting the promo sheet for it. And they'd already created the characters. So there was no talk of like, because they kept it all secret for a few years, you know, and it was just talking about these kinds of car to band members. oxide on, did my head and by the way, we just carried on it was like, you know, we are, we're on our own. We're on our own plane. And once we, there was a point, actually, after doing the first album, like and where it was, like, how are we going to draw this? How are we going to do it? And it was like, right, we're going to have a screen. You know, you're going to make these visuals and we're going to we're going to have them go in whilst we're, whilst we're playing. We'll go over side of the screen, but we're practically facing each other or like, you know, you Yeah, I just like, you know, you'll get paid we'll all get paid the same amount. Everything. You know, that's that's how that's how we'll do it.

Yeah, and you did three albums, didn't you into or Yeah,

did three albums. That was like part of the that was part of the contract. We did like numerous EPs and bits and bobs. But as part of the grand central thing, after we've done that first EP, it was like, sign a three album deal. I mean, sneak with that naive. Yeah, we sneak was like, I'm a member of the musicians unit. It's like us sick. He's like they've got a lawyer are sick. So we'll send him the contract. And he can say like, you know, whether it's kosher, or you know, whatever. So we did great. It seems like all you got to do is join the musicians union. I'm like, I'd love to be part of the musicians union anyway. Like, there again, it's like that affirmation, like, you know, that I think I needed or wanted so much. But then so. Yeah, that came back the lawyers like, yeah, it's all legally binding and all kind of aboveboard. He didn't say it's not a great start. Great deal. A lot of guys or anything like that. It's just like, it was nothing illegal on?

Was it not as good as it could have been? Then? Do you think you're happy to like, it depends if you're happy to talk about that or not. So

I mean, we paid we paid a month's rent, with the first payment we got, you know, we paid a month's rent each. For the first album, I don't know whether it's about like, what's fair, or What's unfair, or any of that stuff, or people might like, See, that was like a negative thing. What I would do is just flip that and say, like, I've been given the chance of a lifetime, you know, and that, for me was priceless. And I didn't actually care, the money and all that, we were like doing so many gigs. I was earning more money than I had ever earned in my entire life. I thought I was, you know, sad. And in that sense. Yeah, but it wasn't it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't that great, but Grand Central was small label and the Ponte they were taken on us, like I knew the music that we were delivering was not your standard listening. And that would take a lot of bravery and a lot of confidence from like anyone holding a purse. You know what I mean? And being part of a business. Anyway, but yeah, so that's, that's what happened. And we went anyway, to go back to the naivety, we did like the first snowbombing, which is this big light festival happened in 2000. And it was like finger thing go launch in the main event, this album or whatnot. And there's this guy, Steve Smith, who put on deeper Cushing festival and all these huge, just all this huge stuff. Like he basically really knows his audience about anything like that. And we were like, Yeah, we got this, we got this. We've got an option. We've got an option like with this album's coming out, and then we can decide whether we want to do another album with murder. And he just started laughing. And it's like, you know, I think it's them that I've got the option, guys, I think it's I think it's, you know, but we were just, you know, I mean, he was just like, so just, yeah, like, just plucked out of whatever, just thrust right into this situation. You know, like, being on a roller coaster that's already moving, or something, I don't know, it's hard to or, you know, and all we did was just, like, go for it. And everybody's every sense, anything that we were asked to do, or whatever we just really like it was it was everything at that time?

Was it? Was it a consistent schedule, then over those three albums? Like was this where you're touring as much and stuff and, and recording as much and did the did the energy and the enjoyment stay throughout? Yeah,

but like, so. I mean, to be really, I mean, we were enjoying ourselves a lot, you know, every day, you know. So, when we came home from touring, we just came home with half the rider. Everything else that we needed, you know, we would just live pretty much at home that the life that we were doing, do you know what I mean? Like, and like I'm, so we're in that shared house, right? We're in that shared house and all of a sudden, it's like, right, you've got a record deal. You've got this What would you like to do with it? You know, right. And he this they're SO WHAT THE FUCK OUT what an MPC I want DJ noise. I want you to get in touch with him or what I do attract with noise. You know all this, like, I'd already been doing gigs with noise and met his manager, Matt Azad, who was the guy who popped fresh 97 Odd. Yeah. So all these crazy things are happening all of a sudden, like I'm doing this thing where I've got this outsider's view of a festival and what it's like as a punter go in, and then a year and a half later, I've got an insider's view of of what it is, it's a very different, very, very different thing. And almost in a sense that innocence is once you lose that of the mystique of like gigs music, the way that you listen to music over all that time. So, you know, I suppose like when you start putting, turning your head to like making stuff, and creating, there has to be a level of scrutiny towards everything that has come before it and music that you started to listen to music differently, I started to listen to hip hop differently. Everything because I was just examining it and ripping it apart and teaching myself to and listening to all different types of music all together, back to back and to as like a almost trying to condition myself to like being more open minded than what I did what I thought I needed to, you know, so I would, you know, like, learn that thing about sneaking into like the jazz and funk console and all that. A metal and hip hop. Yeah. And it's like the meat, like the hip hop, of course, with sampling and the funk, soul and jazz, like Yeah, but I just didn't have access to those records. I wasn't listening. So that stuff, I heard it via the via the means of, of hip hop music, which is which is sampling, you know, but from the outset, I just was just like a sponge everything and live in that life being on tour all the time, being surrounded by people who are not only in bands, making music themselves, all different types of stuff percussionist listening to, you know, three guys chanting in a fucking forest somewhere and nodded his head. And, you know, like, while you're listening to like, put it on and like, fucking how, you know, wow, you know, I like that's amazing like that. You buzz off that, you know, it's like, you know, and just having that inquisitive nature with every thing and everyone all that time and like, and also like, you know, hadn't even been making tunes that long, you know, so it was all just this but we're all in the same house, we're all under one roof, you know, with all these other crazy dudes like different creatives, lovely, lovely people, but just stuff like, it's pretty lawless, and just having incredible experiences and everything just fed right back into the music. And I. And as soon as I move in, I'm bringing the PlayStation the chip PlayStation with every fan and every game under the sun that you can think of. Right like wrestling. just far too many video games, in fact, you know, but the wall of videos would go floor to ceiling. Yeah,

that kind of thing. Did you? Did you at any time kind of feel like it was too much in like, it would have been like healthy to just step out of it for a few weeks every once in a while? No,

not at all. No, not for you. Not even for one second. Like it was kind of like, I felt like I'd found my I felt like I found my tribe. You know, at that time. Like it wasn't just Chris and sneak once I moved into that house, it was Droid and Bong, and Mike, and just like, and Tim, it sort of a peep.

So here's one for you then. And so I DJ with the band for a bit. It was it was as much as anything it was for the social aspects. And I just start scratch on I don't know, if three tunes and fire off a few samples. Nothing too crazy. But with that, I think for me, I think of scratching is more of like a free form instrument. And what I struggled with is because we you know, we go and gig and stuff like that. And it's just like rehearsing and doing the same thing every time. I really struggled with like, how were you with that? Because you got to be tight when you perform at these festivals and things like did you have room to play around? Or are we happy to just stick to the the exact sort of blueprint,

I still have, and never have done the same thing, the same consecutively. Like any time anyone's seen finger thing or anything. That's I think that's the thing about routines. I actually I don't call I don't use that word because like, that's something where it's like this and it has to be then has to fit to that parameter. And I have trouble up here. With that. I I'm like it's just going. That's all I can say. It's just going and I'm there I am there. I'm just probably not where you expect me to be. Like I like with the finger thing stuff. And that's why I love playing with snakes I Love You know, it's just this he like, and that just thing it's like that freedom. And like, yeah, I just have great difficulty with doing the same thing. The same? Yeah, after and so even like all the courts and everything. As long as I used the samples that I was asked to use, I would generally do something different. You know? And that would not be like I just, I wouldn't be able to do it the same if I tried, if you see what I mean. Like so when it came down to like recording when it came down to recording like solos and stuff like that with the finger thing stuff. A lot of it would just be sit there and I would just keep going. You know, it wasn't like oh, right, you've got 16 bars, okay, I've been working on it for three weeks go down a little bit poorer than the bitter, bitter, but I'm sure none of that is just like, just let me go for a bit. I'll just go you know, and then we'd go back and like Pixa and bits like fucking out what you did, there's really good. I'm like, Okay, let's go record. I'll do that again. No problem.

So with the finger thing, then what what was it that stopped you from doing doing the fourth album? Was it because it was the end of the contract? Or was there other opportunities that have come up?

So there's some massive in the times, so in between those albums, huge changes, we're going down in Grand Central behind the scenes, and I am comfortable. I do want to talk about all this actually. So so we're part of this we're part of this thing and we're making real noise you know the album's we're getting like eight out of 10 and LME. For them. That's a big deal. You know, like so Oh, we were being received really well, the opportunities were all still common. Right and Christian Mark had this great play like Ray Christian was like this different thing, which was actually bigger. It was bigger, you know, he's got this label as well. Money pressures, whatever these things I can't imagine I can't because I I cuz I have anxiety I fucking would go ballistic over something being moved. Oh, you know, the idea of having a business and being a juggle these things and other people's lives and responsibilities like that. I can't, I can't, you know, but I can imagine how difficult that would get if things start going wrong or not going how you wanted them to go. And these just changes were happening at Grand Central it was like I don't know, just like, Mark ended up moving down to London. Because that was where I think he needed to be, you know, bought the business and everything was in Manchester. And the changes that came after that just didn't work for the label that well. And subsequently, because they didn't work for the label that Well, I don't think they really worked for the artists that while or we started to see things, we developed, like deep relationships with all the people that worked at that label. And yeah, you know, see, everybody's just working really odd. And I don't know, like, Pete like things, different people coming into place, and then like, just these changes happening. And when the change is sort of happened, like they just, I don't know, they there was like just stuff happening for the negative rather than for the positive. So it was just a little bit like, something's not quite right. No, nothing would ever get said and we don't know, we're just artists that pop in there. And we just like hanging out there because like, we were like these just naughty kids who later on let's get away with whatever, we just hang out and make people laugh. And, you know, like, everything was like jovial whereas like, you know, as part of the business it's a very different thing. And yeah, like I to be dead honest. I wanted to be on ninja tune. I wanted to what is released music on all the labels, or what it's a kind of like, I can't remember. I just wanted to be able to do stuff. Yeah, what's beyond ninja? And it was, it was a lot to do with scruff actually, and seeing how scruff was going down. And what it was like Mr. Soros managers, this guy, Gary. And it was like, right, is what we're gonna do. We're gonna go and tap this guy up. And we're gonna say, We want you to manage us we want to kind of do what what scruff, you know is doing and we think we're capable, or you work for that was that was the thing. Can you ever scratch the dog again? So fucking dog trying to get him on? All right. So yeah, so what happened was, this is this is all pivotal stuff, right? And this is during superhero music. I write the second album. We go to this guy, and when I write, we want what script we think we're as good as scruff. We want to do that, you know, Can you can you facilitate that? And he's like, right, come we'll meet. You know, this guy. And it's just like, This guy is just fucking you know, scruffs just huge. And he's with Ninja. Grand Central. It's some it's going wrong. It's going it's not going right. It's like, it's, I hate to say it, but you would sort of be like, shit, man. It's like, it's I don't know whether it's going to fold or, or whatever. But like, it's like, oh, it's a sinking ship. Yeah, we need to get out. We need to just sort out our own future. You know, when I'm like, I won't be on fucking ninja tune. You know, that's, that's where we're going next. And yeah, scruff was on ninja. This guy was bandaging scruff. It's like, right? Do the math. Let's go see that guy. You know? And he was brilliant. Actually, Gary was like, Yes, I think I can do something with you. And willing to take it on. I rarely are I you know, and. And that's when things really started going. Bonkers. Like, we shook hands. And it was like the new chapter had started the new what was gonna come to us next via like, What in the world or whatever, but Grand Central is a sinking ship. Okay, for smoking hop onto another one. And we have superior old music at the time. The first thing Gary did was like I'm gonna bring this guy from colder agency to meet your called dog. And dog travelled up like fucking Armand. He's travelling up from London to see yours in Manchester That's wicked. And he came up and we met and chatted. And next thing we're on colder. And, and then and I tell Gary the idea about how we want Chris doing the visuals we want to go out when we go out on the road, we're like this, we have a screen we take the screen everywhere. He's like, right, right. So all down. Dog, this is what they want to do. You know? Right, you need to do the artwork. You know, Chris, how do you know? So learn whatever you need to do to make these animations, these little bits put it together at home, so you can do it. Where we've got the music. And yeah, we're going out and playing that stuff. And then this one time, we get a call and it's like, right. It was the Fringe Festival. Ces 2002. Slight right. DJ Shadow is doing a gig in Edinburgh for the fringe in a warehouse. And anti pop consortium was supposed to be support and they can't make it. Uh, you guys up for 5000 5000 people? No doubt 3000 Maybe in this fucking like hangar. Like yeah, let's go. This is it. This is the moment to do I believe this is the this is the net me it was just like, bear in mind. This guy to me was the pinnacle. You know, he was what I saw is like that he is that's what I that's how I want to be. That's how I want to be like that, you know? And yeah, we went up and Chris couldn't come. They couldn't facilitate visuals for us. They were like, all you got to do is have a turntable and the bass you know. And I had a I had a mini disc player thing with some of the some of the back end for some of the tracks. But we've already got the new album. So we've got the new album tunes scrap, which was way more heavily. I mean, we were we were on it, you know, and we did it everywhere. Aki nuts. I mean, we couldn't believe it because we're all doing all this

stuff for the first time that we'd like to marjoram and Basie sort of stuff that you did.

It was like the bit it was kind of the shuffled stuff. So yeah, like all black satellite, Shinjuku, Shinjuku, Shinjuku, Shinjuku, Shinjuku engine, Doctor Who whatever. Yeah, and then we're doing like head to head big monsters, Chris it is superhero music, fucking bangers that people have never heard, you know, and they were fucking, you know, they was responding in kind and it was just like, it was a real moment. And we went, we were back in a dressing room. Massive grins on our faces. You know, sweaty cops is a knock at the door. Yeah. Shadow with two T shirts. And he's just like, I just bought these for you. They're just like, the T shirts that I'm going with the moment I just wanted to say like, I thought that was brilliant. I've never seen well, I've actually only ever seen something like that once before. And it's a guy miles from break history with cook chemist. Because miles plays double bass and cook chemist was like cutting a beat but and he's like, but it was just a freestyle. And I've never heard anyone arrange a song could do it like a song. On Josh. Right? Yeah. I know. I you know, I remember I had these two sisters record down on the floor. Right. So records pulled out this this old electoral record two sisters Summit. And he's there and he's like, Oh, I see you got two sisters. 1984 on the Senate data data label, like this, like a, like a catalogue? Like someone had a You bet. Like someone or you bet me. It was fucking crazy. And I was I was actually and I didn't want to do is edit it. But it wasn't that it was actually on a French label. It wasn't the American release that he fought, but I didn't want to be like, Nah, actually, you got it wrong. Who would do that? I just didn't say anything. I'm like, Yeah, two sisters. Like this. Anyway, we saw him and it was just this pivotal moment. I mean, they I can't like one of the basically one of the best moments of my entire life. And subsequently what happened was like, Shadow really buzzed off it. He's got his UK tour for private press coming up. Do you want to support him on the whole? No, no, I Yes. And it's beans from out of the park consortium and our JD two just brought out dead ringer. You know, next thing we're in, you know, Manchester Academy. Sold out, you know, law All those, you know, watching our JD to chillin out with beans and then on the odd occasion bumping into shadow and having like a few moments to just kind of talk who was to ask me like that and I, his manager was fucking horrible to insure this dude. I'm not gonna go there's no but he was just like, RJ was like friend and he's like you want to come on the bus? You want to come on a tour bus and play some FIFA? Like sick really close we do and by the way, I'm middle fever I'm gonna kick your ass you know, I got so gowalk Gala. And his manager comes up like after like five minutes, max. Good, guys. Sorry, but it's crew only on the boss. Yeah. Right. And he's like, we're just gonna play some games. You're not gonna, you know? And he's like, Yeah, but you know, rules are rules. I'm afraid I just can't have it. You're gonna have to leave guys. You know, like, this night literally, like, it was fucking asshole. Like, you know, just like we were, you know, I mean, I not even that old. And just like, I don't know, just lording it like that and just being like, oh, you can't be honest. He wasn't like Josh was up at the other end of the bus. You know, I mean, we weren't doing any one sided. And he just had to be like that. And he had to do that, you know. And then every, every time that we saw him, it's just like, yeah, you're that guy. That's how you do things. Do you not? I mean, and fuck me off that. But anyway, but yeah, like, Josh. So we go round. And at times, we get talking. And it'd be like, how did you record? You know, like, oh, what MPC you know, like, how did you record certain bits, you know? And it's like, yeah, I got an MPC 60. And would have like a wood MIDI up and bounce off of the tracks separately. And I was like, because you then you put like, two together. And like us, you know, like, can do the programming separately. And he's like, Yeah, and he's like, but I like the way you did it and all that, you know, like, like,

from shadow.

So that affirmation, yeah, that that kind of stuff, where I really did. Um, it's like, I genuinely like that thing about imposter syndrome, or feeling like I do I have the right to be there. I've always had that. Always my entire life when I go in places, and I don't know, I would always feel like, alone. And but then to have an occasion where just with certain people say something like that, after that. I was it was like that validation. Do you know what I mean? And it was like, and that and that's what, that's that whole tour. That's what it did. It kind of validated us as being something that like, now we are doing it, you know, we are, you know, yeah. Yeah, even though record sales and all that and the way things were, you know, we went over to Russia. One time, and, you know, we got told that we were selling big in Russia. And the we went over and the promoter. This guy's name was Boris. And he's like, Yeah, guy, so you sell big. He's, we sold like 20 copies. Wow. 20 copies, you know, not really having, you know, like, somebody said she was selling well, or whatever. Not having that perspective. All right, well, only 500 copies were pressed. You know, there wasn't there was no streaming. There was no sales. You know, it was just like anything we got given. We gave it people you know, you get promo so you get copies. I don't even have that stuff. I've just given it to people. You know, cuz it just, I don't know. Yeah, like, easy come easy. Go excited. No, isn't it? That's all it was made. The whole thing is just pure energy. Adrenaline, you know, for good or for bad. It was just that whole, whole period. And, you know, all I did was just embrace it all. I just got tired 24/7 The whole time and which ultimately, you know, didn't do us any favours, you know?

So what was it then that kind of caused the wheels to fall off? I'm sorry, I'm saying that loaded. I don't know. Like, how it kinda like tied up in the end, but because you said that. There's been ups and downs, but it sounds like so far, just aside from shadows manager being a bit funny. That's the only real thing I guess. So far.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what happened was like, the relationship that we had with Gary, that we were that we were building was like, it was it was to look to the future and have like, a more long term approach. Now bear in mind, I've been given validation by somebody who is, you know, it's like, on the front, there's just the Jimi Hendrix of sampling. You know, that's what he was quoted as like, you know, the enemy said that but it's like we got a 10 out The NME, if they say is the Jimi Hendrix sampling violets, you know, I just started sampling more and more heavier and heavier. Yeah, more samples. And wanting to be on ninja at this time, right. And even, like, there's other people I know other artists this time would have been feeling their sport, there was a shift in the industry, where all of a sudden, if you use samples, it was a much different game because people were starting the lawsuits were coming in thick and fast. Yeah, and people all of a sudden, it's like, you could make the best music ever, as it got samples in it. You know? And that's, that's what that's how it started to calm. That's how the questions were cleaner. And it's like, Don't fucking what you're saying, you know, like that. I can't sample you know. Yeah. And so we wrote a body of music, which was the next and with the intention of this music being on ninja tune, we met book 65, the Lisa reading, Carling, whatever you call it festival and got on swimmingly. It turns out that he'd seen the DMC and he's like, Yeah, I used to watch, you know, my long way or your Bog 65. And he did. He did, he did this. He did like a tune over, he did wicked and weird over, no one knows by Queens of the Stone Age. And I was just like, that's one of the most incredible things and how brave you know, like, just that is someone else who's kind of loves different types of shit, and but we'll throw it together in a sort of hip hop capacity. Anyway, yeah, we ended up doing a tune, which was like ultra heavy, it's like, okay, and then these are the these are the ones where I was sampling more and more stuff. And just the amount of samples that are that are used, like tripled. And I was starting to use quite a lot of superhero music and some of the bits and yeah, we ended up with this body of stuff and going on a tour. And the idea was to get onto SJM as the new promoter. So that we could go bigger than just clubs. It would be more like academies and stuff like that. And ninja tune would come and see this show. And then they'd want the album, you know. And the idea was to like grow finger things. So we came up with finger thing in the themes, which was like percussionists. Because I was buzzing off the Incredible Bongo band, and I thought, wouldn't that be sick to have a live version of that, but I think a thing. And also, and that was Chris, my original percussionist that would listen to all the wacky sounds from the jungle or whatever, or like, you know, proper raw percussion from way back tribal stuff, and Steve Brown is sort of an ultra talented dude, playing keys, and that all my friends, basically, our friends, Ricky and Mark, on Congress, and it's like, right, for a laugh, we're going to do Apache, we're gonna do a version of Apache. But we're gonna have a big scratch solo in the middle of basically bring, like, what, you know, bring it up to date, so that we could do that live with all of our other tunes. Okay, great. And we had this show at the ICA. And it was it was for a laugh. It was it was, it was kinda like, that was not what I wanted. It's like all this stuff that I built for heavy samples. That was what I wanted our future or what my vision for at least where I was where I would fit in and what I would bring to the table, aside from, you know, all sneak stuff as well. And then, yeah, they came to the to the ICA gig in London, and yeah, we did all the stuff. And then you know, Gary, were like, right, okay, what's, what's the crack? You know, they were like, well, yeah, I don't think they're gonna take the stuff. You know, that's got all the samples, but they love Apache. You know, I was like, a fucking kid. And, you know, like I did, and that was a very bitter pill for me to swallow at the time. What transcended over the next few months was like, a breakdown of like, the stuff that we've made was like, the ninja degree to release the nebula album in America and Canada. Because Grand Central didn't have distribution. Yeah. So it was I already felt like we've got our foot in the door, do you not I mean, I was like, fuck, man. It's happening, you know? And yeah, Gary was like, Look, you know, have you got can you make if you got some other ways of making these tunes? You No, no. No, because I've just spent, you know, all of my time, all my waking time obsessing over sound bites of stuff from elsewhere. I don't play keys, I don't do this. I don't just the turntables and records, my, you know, videos and games, and that's where I get my sales from. And, and it actually crushed me to be honest. It created like this massive shift where I lost all my confidence and belief slowly. And it just took all the fun and everything out of all that excitement and like all that energy. That was that was that was, it was just like, it just started to fizzle out. And so we're smoking every single day all day, you know, and everything else. And you know, and I guess I'm still growing up, you know, and being told things that I didn't like to hear, and I've grown like a quiet the ego, you know, from having these experiences and doing all this great stuff. And, you know, being that guy, you know, along with snake and Chris Nova and I had all this belief and it just, it was like, it was like it was like a chink in the armour or whatever they call that, you know, like, just like the start of a crack that just started getting a bit bigger. And I think it was my confidence, to be honest, it was it was because I, I think I didn't believe that I could make it in any other way than using samples. And it was like, okay, and Gary's like that you don't have to be the end. Like, you can release the music yourself. You know, do it yourself, like, okay, great. How do we do that? You know, we're still touring, we'll just press up 1000 CDs, and, you know, go and sell them while you're doing it or sell the T shirts and stuff because we had all the imagery and everything. And that's what we did. You know, we were making these mixtapes and stuff that we were kind of peddling, it was, but then we were just, they weren't coming out on a label or anything, we were just selling them as part of the shop. And but, you know, it was like, in my heart of hearts, I want it to be on ninja. The reason we couldn't get on Ninja is because what, you know, they want Apache, they put Apache out on a server. But I was, you know, this is just me, this is just me, you know, being, you know, honest that like, it just didn't want to deal I wanted to put the other show. She not I mean, I just didn't I kind of I think I'd lost it, I'd lost like, because I'd lost like a bit of belief in myself and everything is right and over it this whole period, while we were touring and stuff were accruing a debt. Yeah, to Gary's company, because the way that they did things, they had this old office of people. I'm a kid who has come from having nothing, we're going doing this thing, and all of a sudden, I've got a manager, you know, and a management company, okay, they can just take care of everything, you know, I'm gonna carry on doing this thing, just give me a shout when I'm needed, whatever. So we're left off to our doing our own devices, which was that and they're and they're all doing the work, and we're accruing this debt. And the account was, at one point, having, you know, so much money going through per year, and then it just was coming down and down and down and down. And the new music wasn't coming. You know, Gary had this, this, this faith, that because I was saying, or we were going round, we were saying rather that like it's on its way we're doing the music, you know, it's common, but it wasn't right. wasn't right. You know, and it's like, we've still got all that shit, we still listen back to it. And it's got some incredible elements, and all these bits and like, it was kinda like going back and looking at these like, like a half finished painting, like, a half finished brilliant painting. So you see a bit of and it's like, wow, look at that, but where's the rest? It's kind it's kinda like, it's kind of like the heart and just hearing these things. And yeah, I don't know what it was. I just, I was like, Yeah, I just it was like, if I cannot sample I can't, I can't be who who I want to be.

But it just it just Yeah, it was like it started to rot or something inside me. And I think I don't think I became or was looking at making music the same. You know, I actually had my eyes on. I. So the debt that we started building up was so big that we started getting a bit scared. Yeah, yeah. Like we were like, what, what, how are we going to pay this off? So we're all just live it we're still living together, but we're all a bit depressed, because it wasn't going how we want That's a goal and all of a sudden, it wasn't like you going out and doing gigs and making this money. It's just like, now you just you've got this this big ass debt which would go up and down as well, you know, everything our our time with Gary was built on a handshake. So yeah, what I did was I was a bit like, right I think I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna I want some time off, you know? And that's, that's what I did. There was another another guy and MC you had a project called the real dolls. And he was like, would you produce the real dolls album, he asked me to be in the real dolls and bless him really want it to be, you know, like, on the first day of go into play with the band. You didn't even tell them? Didn't tell them? You know, he's just like, oh, yeah, there's a new guy, there's a new band member coming in, and he's going to produce the shit that two lads who was in the room, they were doing it, you know, he didn't tell me this. He didn't tell me this at the time. But I walked into a fucking shitstorm very small shitstorm at the time, but like just something which was just so confusing from the very first moment and, and I told Gary like, I'm gonna go and do this thing. I need some time off finger thing to be really honest, the music it's there. But it ain't right. You know, it's not. We we have the equivalent of an album that we'd sent to that we sent to an institution. But it was like, it was like it was half. It just had this thing. It had this bit missing, which was the magic, I guess, or whatever the inexplicable thing, but it was the stuff. Yeah, I'd lost faith. I'd lost faith not only in in, in, in, in like the future. It wasn't what I had perceived. And what I wanted so much for it to be it wasn't going to be that. And I didn't know what the what the other thing was all I knew that was to get out of this debt. Yeah. So I just said to Gary, like, Look, I need some time off, you know, need a year out. I'm going to go and do this other thing. Then I'm going to come back fresh, and we'll do the finger thing stuff. And we'll honour all that and it'll all be cool. And it just never happened. You know? So effectively what happened was we just cut ties. They, they came to see the real dolls thing because I didn't tended to kind of carry on enough then do the real doll saying because I saw that as like, my ego. Even though I had lost faith in the sampler and my ego was still there. So I believed I could produce an album even though I've never done that, you know, I had no fucking idea I just made beats and that you know, but said I could do it. And yeah, it was a shame, and sneaks, sneaks. Sneak ended up moving to Berlin. That was when he moved. Like, it must have been for me to come home one day and say look, I need some time out from finger thing. Must have been fucking heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking for me. Yeah, I actually not only did I like sort of, like, call it a timeout on it. It was like call it a timeout on our friendship. And not fought me. Yeah, like Chris, as well. Like sneak. And like I'm so I had a long standing girlfriend, who was like, you know, also like a best friend and broke from that as well. Thinking that everything that I was doing was for the right reasons like I needed to go out on my own and find my own way. Not a good idea. That is effectively sneak. I remember them loading up the car and it's like he's like that I'm gonna move to Berlin with Lena, you know, like they got married and she didn't really rate Manchester a bit too cold. You know, for she she was from Kuala lumper originally the mat in Kuala lumper. But she wanted to go to Berlin. You know, when sneak I guess you know, it was like, that moment the opportunity had knocked, you know, it comes so it wasn't like leader wouldn't be taking them away from anything anymore. It was like now we can go. So I think she made it all right with him, you know where he was alright with it. But we're just fucking heartbroken. And I just went and moved into a flat on my own thinking that me breaking off from everyone was the, you know, the best thing and unfortunately, like, it was like that started to become like the hardest time of my life. You know, for the next three years. I'd got into this relationship, a long distance relationship with someone that it was like, it was it was it was so toxic. Like But at that point, like, that was kind of something that I've, to me that was still quite a thrill, you know, that kind of all of that year, I really went for it. That's all I could really say. And, and, yeah, I just started to like, it was just like this kind of self deterioration. And I started to distance myself from everybody, you know, and like, kind of somewhat broken up with this kind of light, like, you know, like girlfriend, longtime girlfriend, and then my best friends who had literally become family with it all broken, it all ended, and then it was just me, you know?

Yeah. Wow. So what did that three years consist of, then?

It consisted of me. It just taking loads, loads, loads and loads of drugs. After receiving the news that, like sampling was an issue. I had stopped scratching hand. Like, I like at that time, like cut in and every fed, it was, like, felt like, you know, it was weird. Like, I guess with the finger thing, you know, experience, it was like, I'd found everything, you know, but then, just at the same time, that became a point where it's just, that was no longer the case, you know, and it was like, the Fallout or whatever you want to call it, like, Chris was in a relationship, and wasn't too far away. And, you know, sneak was okay, in building this new life. And I was just in this flat and yeah, like, it was kinda like, my own choices, and the things that are done, I only had myself to kind of talk it through with which, you know, when I didn't want to listen, and really, so. Yeah, so it was just, like, more and more, you know, like, yeah, kind of taking drugs and like, on my own, you know, like, pretending that everything was alright, so I'd go out and still do like the real doll stuff and make like this kind of different music with some other people, but from the outset, that was jarred from the outset. So it was just like, a sort of, unfortunately, a lot of things kind of going wrong or just not going right. And had just come from that. Yeah. I mean, so it was just, like, just a feeling of being lost, you know. And, and, yeah, but there was there was a, there was a, there was a, how could you say, like, yeah, I was, I was still gigging and started, I was going to do a lot of stuff in Hungary. Because that's, yeah, like, where like, like this relationship. The girl I was seeing in this long term relationship with and she was a DJ as well, and kind of new promoters and stuff. And yeah, so and then I met these, these other guys that were did finger thing gigs, but then would go out and like, spend time with them and go dig in with them. And like, get these Hungarian breaks and all this stuff and all this shit. And I've never lost, I never lost like, I never lost my passion for it. It was just like losing the outlet. You know, it was like losing the outlet for it. Or did I? Because then, like, other people will just would just say, Oh, no, you just record the tracks, make your own CD and pedal it yourself and go and do these things. But I just just incapable of all of that. You know,

I think as well with doing something like that. Something that you've repeatedly talked about is getting that affirmation. And I don't think self releasing would necessarily tick those same boxes for you. That's not that that's you go in, I think MRI that's not someone putting their hands around you and going, you're right. I'm going to put this out.

Yeah, yeah. So I guess like, like a loss of loss of like, loss of confidence and a loss of faith and like this relationship that I was in was so toxic. So toxic, right that at first it was just like a fucking the night like the wildest ride that I could ever imagine. Because I'm what it's a kind of experience, I guess. But it was actually, I come out. I'm a nice guy, and I'm very sensitive. And like, yeah, like stuff happened to me that I guess so I'm going through this experience while I'm just taking shitloads of drugs and I'm a bit lost. I go through this experience where my self esteem I actually I actually started to receive some of the treatment that maybe I've been dishing out three months one is you know, via just be it like being egotistical and you know, go going around and just doing, you know, whatever. And just thinking that that's okay. And it isn't, you know, and when that's and, and when that came back to me in the form of a relationship via someone who was all too comfortable with that shit, like, so comfortable that it just crushed me. You know, it crushed me, like I over those years like I just I stopped I self destructed I self decimated, you know, and I was all I was up for it, you know, I was actually up for it. So I was just continuing, there was no like, there was no like, what I'm doing is bad. I had like this little tiny bit at the bottom of my mind that knew that what I was doing was was was not right, and it wasn't good for me. But also, like, I also had this element where I was actually quite ashamed of what I was doing. So I wanted to keep it all really secret. And also, I didn't tell anyone you know, and and so I'm doing this stuff, which is really bad. And then I'm getting I'm in a relationship which is really bad and actually taking like some really vital parts of yourself of who you are as a person like stripping that down to nothing actually. Yeah, that's the way it went. May I was really close to like, really close to it not going well.

I think what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to do a legendary first time ever third recording

amaro

basically had to go off and meet someone so we stopped the recording there. But there's so much more to get into that I thought it best to split this into a three parter. So I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Stay tuned for the final instalment of the Peter Parker story. Until then, see ya.

Thanks for listening to the one to DJ podcast. If you've got any questions or feedback or any suggestions for guests, please just get in touch with us at once a DJ podcast@gmail.com or on Instagram at once a DJ podcast. Take care. We'll speak to you soon. That was nice.