In this coaching episode, Caroline sits down with Verena Aziz, owner of V’s Treats in Seattle, to help her overcome the challenges of growing her microbakery. Verena shares her journey of turning her baking passion into a business and the struggle of balancing high-quality ingredients with profitability. Together, they explore solutions to shift from markets to porch pickups and attract more customers without burning out.

Tune in to hear actionable strategies on how to streamline operations, boost customer acquisition, and scale your bakery sustainably. This episode is packed with practical advice for any microbakery owner looking to grow their business while maintaining balance.

Connect with Verena on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vs_treats/

Download the FREE Guide and Checklist, Your First Steps to a Successful In-Home Bakery at https://www.carolinebower.com/checklist to begin building YOUR thriving microbakery! 

Caroline Bower Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carolinebower_sourdough

Verena Aziz Coaching Interview

Welcome to the Breadwinner Podcast. This is the show for sourdough micro bakery owners who are building a sustainable, successful, profitable business from their home. If you are already in business or if you're dreaming of starting one, this is the place for you. I'm your host, Caroline Bower. I own a successful in home sourdough bakery, and I am here to share everything I've learned that works and that doesn't, plus everything that I'm researching along the way so we can build thriving businesses together.

So I am so glad you're here. Verena, will you introduce yourself?

Sure. My name is Verena and I have a home micro bakery in Seattle, Washington called V's Treats. I basically wasn't able to name, my bakery after a certain item because I know some people solely focus on sourdough, solely focus on cookies, and I tend to just get bored with one thing, and so it became V's Treats.

How did you get started?

Yeah, so I've always really It was always something that I did to first stress relief whether it be in college or grad school. And then just throughout adulthood, I would make, friends and family treats and, cakes and bars and breads. And people would say, Oh, you should open your own bakery.

Very neat. So what would you say is your favorite part of running a microbakery right now?

And as a way to have a freshly made item without preservatives they can enjoy. And I also, only use organic flowers and then an items that have eggs, only organic eggs. So I feel like I'm also

offering my customers, like an added level of, of health benefit as well.

I love that. So the purpose of today's call. is a coaching call. You had applied when I opened applications last month. So, My goal is to help you come away from this call feeling empowered to kind of take the next steps to accomplish your goals. So what would you like to come away from this call from?

And so, while I've been doing things like markets and stuff to grow customers and get my name out there, it's a lot of work and I would love to be able to not only transition that to porch pickup, but also increase my customer base. So, I feel that my business is slowly growing and not just hours and hours of time being put in.

That makes sense. There's the, that point kind of when

you're gaining the traction where it just feels like I am working so much and I don't see enough return.

Yeah, exactly. And especially because I do use high quality ingredients in my baked goods, so only organic flours, especially with the sourdough organic unbleached bread flour is quite expensive. And then especially with things like my cookies, I only use really high quality chocolate and and again, organic eggs and quality butter.

Yeah, super crucial question. So right now. In your business, what do you do that works really well?

Yeah, so I have been doing a I started implementing a porch pickup. And what that is like a lot of other micro bakers, I use a platform called hot plate. And so the menu will go up usually on Friday evening or Saturday morning. And then All the items will be there along with their price.

So they do have some flexibility in that. And, I know. Other pickup days and times would probably be convenient for others. And so if I offered another one, um, like maybe a Saturday so that I had two a week, it might, allow for more customer orders, but it's really hard to be able to do Two dough days and two bake days a week, especially when it's just myself doing the majority of the baking.

So, and so in addition to that, I've been doing markets here and there. And last summer I was doing weekly markets, but they are just a lot of work and very exhausting. And they're so rewarding because you get to meet so many people and see them enjoy your baked goods, but it can be always tricky to know how many people are going to come.

But, um, what I've heard is that having as many customers as you can sign up for notifications and sign up for those menus to be sent to them is really crucial so that when you get a percentage of those as orders, it still makes it worth your time. And so that's what I'm slowly working on. But it is a slower process. And oftentimes I find that the best way to get people to sign up for that platform is through markets. So then here we go back to, the very strenuous,

very time consuming, labor intense. Um, Markets.

Yeah. And it's great to be out there and meeting people and introducing your bakery and what you offer. And it's really fun. But it's a lot of work. And oftentimes, if it's like, say a 3 or 4 hour market it'll be like a bell curve where it might start out really slow or it'll start out really busy and then toward the end, it'll die off.

So you're really going strong during that time. And oftentimes, I'll need to hire someone to help me during that time so I can be able to answer questions and explain products to a large number of people in a short amount of time. And then of course, that's additional, cost into hiring like an assistant for markets and such. So

definitely. So your ideal business model would be fully porch picka.

But It's a catch 22 because while they're fun and it's a great way to introduce yourself and meet people, it's just so much work. So I think the majority I would like to transition to, to porch

pickup, but I'd still be down with maybe like a once a month market during that season. However, once. Um, late fall that kind of dies out until spring.

that makes sense. Um, in your current schedule, do you work in addition to your bakery too? Is that part of your scheduling challenges.

So there's a lot of time consuming items in running a bakery that I think are not always, obvious at first sight. So while my day job isn't really the limiting factor, I think it's just having the amount of time as well as in my small home kitchen. And it just being me to be able to do the recipe testing and the marketing and the, um, markets when i, you know, have the time [00:12:00] to be able to devote to those.

Yeah. Yeah. We do work of like five people.

We do. Yeah. And it's so great when you can hire someone to help you, whether it be packaging or labeling or. Just taking sales at markets. But especially when you're just

starting

out, the costs can really add

Yeah, definitely. All right. So I would love to kind of hone in a little bit more on your goal of transitioning to focus more heavily on porch pickup. are there ways that you've approached marketing that have succeeded that aren't markets?

And those are great ways to introduce my my bakery and the items that I offer. And It's definitely low pressure, right? It's just like, Hey, I want to treat you to this. I hope you like it. And if they're interested in asking about, future orders and how they could learn more about the bakery and what else I offer, that's great.

But. I try not to put too much pressure on people. I just, I've never really enjoyed sales pitches and it just feels so fake to me to be like, Oh, and I offer this and this and this. And, but at the same time you do have to market yourself. So yeah, I try to do it organically, but.

People are super appreciative of items that I bring in gift. And then some will for sure order down the road. But for example, like neighbors, when I introduced them to items, they're super appreciative that i, Them a loaf of bread, but um, it hasn't led to a whole lot of orders after that

yeah. So I have an Instagram page and I it's solely for V's Treats. So solely for the business. And I oftentimes focus on like new items that I'm introducing. So for example I am my new menu for next week. So. porch pickup opens Friday. So I'm giving people sneak peeks of new cookie flavors.

much engagement other than maybe a like

then, um, I would hope.

Cookies sound amazing. Have you tried anything like Facebook or the next door app?

Um,

I have not, Facebook was next on my list. I think I am less familiar with Facebook than I am with Instagram. And so I think it could just be a generational thing and so I would love to be able to get into that. , I think that Facebook would probably just be again, a marketing tool, just like Instagram would be since it would, refer people to the platform if they're interested in checking the menu out, but yeah, that would definitely be next on my list.

I have not,

some micro bakers have had success with it.

Yeah. So from, my experience, Facebook has been the number one way that I have reached my largest number of recurring, regular customers. That and markets. But Most areas, have a lot of geographic specific groups

Okay.

some of them are really rigid about their policies of when you can post about a business. and them are a little more lenient. Some of them have a lot engagement and some of them don't. So it's a matter of kind of exploring the groups and kind of getting a feel for , are people actually interacting or is it just like spam with tons of like car detailing ads?, it can be a little bit of a hunt to find the groups that really work well, but things like mom groups or like social networking kind of groups.

I would say like my most popular items are my jumbo cookies as well as my sourdough and then my cinnamon rolls. And so, I would say I have, different demographics. There are a lot of older adults who really enjoy Um, the fresh bread and then also, jumbo cookies, whether it be to take home for their kids or their grandkids. And then at markets, oftentimes there'll be people who might just come and buy a cookie or two. So I think it's spread across and I've heard that Instagram is, um, attracts one generation, one demographic and that Facebook, maybe it, uh, attracts a different demographic. And so, being able to hit up all those, I think would be ideal.

But it is next on my list. It just does sound like another little project that. Or maybe isn't so little, but needs to be tackled next. So, yeah, but I do see the benefit and the value in that. And then I've also heard that it can attach to one's Instagram so that. I may not be having to create two different, um, reels or ads or whatever that one you could use, create one and then put it on both. since they're, I

guess the same company. So that, that would be a benefit

too. So it's not

like doing twice the work.

, that definitely makes sense. I was actually in a profession. Maybe 10 or so years ago where they suggested we do not have Facebook. And so that is why I leaned away from it back then and never really grew the desire to open one down the road. And, but I did, I Instagram intrigued me because it was a little bit more snap pictures and snapshots but I do see the benefit in Facebook, especially for one's business now.

And. Just I'm sure it'll be another little bit of a learning curve and learning it as a platform. But definitely I do think it attracts a

different demographic. And in that sense, hopefully a wider span of potential customers.

Oh, wow. Okay. So solely for your

business right now.

necessary for

Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. And, um, I think that's fine. I think if one just focuses on the business and Facebook,

um, I don't think there's a need to attach it to a personal page from what I understand. So,

Now with facebook, you'll probably need a personal profile , yeah, you'll naturally create a personal profile to create a business profile. So I've found the best success posting from my personal profile in these groups and then tagging my business profile. So people will jump over and follow up my business page and then they'll see everything that I'm posting that gets shared from Instagram.

I see. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I think as long as one doesn't have to maintain two pages, You can

Yeah. I'm all about eliminating extra steps.

Exactly. I listened to recently to your or actually I think it was in your newsletter about the eliminating touches. And I love how that you frame it as touches because every time you put your hands on something and actually creates more work, it's just more time. And you have to think about that in the equation.

Does it really benefit my business or is it just

sort of taking up time and maybe it is

but is it worth that amount of time? And how can I streamline it

that's great. Okay. Awesome.

Yeah. Um, I really, you think in the business we're in, because we are reaching a varied audience, unless if you know, like you are going for this super like Gen Z health conscious. audience, and that is the one person you want to speak to, then you would target them like on Tok. But if you know that a lot of your regular customers who keep coming back to you are in the millennial or a little bit older crowd, they're probably not going to see a lot of what you're sharing on Instagram.

But in terms of that,

you know, equating to being a customer might be a different story,

So you mentioned that your calls to action are

often place your order with the link in the bio. Do people know That they can sign up on hot plate to get notifications when you open the orders.

so I haven't noted that. So Instagram's a little bit annoying because your profile is only a certain amount. So I would love to say sign up for notifications, but I also want to be able to highlight how my business stands out in my profiles, though, with this, number of letters, I'm supposed to be able to incorporate all that and it's tricky.

And I also have it on my business card. So they, and it says, look at menu here, and then they can use either the the framed QR code or the business card and sign up there. And so at the last market I was at, I think I got. About maybe seven or eight new customers to sign up for notifications. But from what I understand, one needs to really amp up that number for it to actually lead to orders. so, on Instagram, it may just be a matter of, either. Constantly reminding people of that notification feature and to sign up. It does sound like Facebook has that option with a little bit less uh, rigidity about how much. You can, type in your profile and that would be

nice so that I can not only highlight

Absolutely. You can pin a post to the top of your profile that explains how to find out about you and how to get your notifications.

Yeah, that's a great idea. That's probably something I should do. Soon is how to get notified because

if people aren't familiar with the

platform,

if they don't see that one story or that one real, they might not get it. So great idea. Thank

Yeah, I have found with my Simply Bread app, which works very similarly with sending notifications. In a given week, anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of the people on my list will order. So if I have a list of 50 people, I might expect five to seven orders.

exactly. And that's what I've heard about hot plate as well is One needs to have, a larger customer list and then a certain percent of that each week will order. And that might, change each week and be different customers each week. So the larger number of

of orders that you're looking

Yeah, exactly. That's a principle in a lot of business. You can kind of expect a 10 percent return on it. So for the remainder of the year, do you have a lot of markets lined up?

So I've been applying Yeah, I've been applying to holiday markets right now. And it's tricky because some of the really popular markets are two days and, six hours a day, and it's a lot of work. So not only the expense. To have a booth at a market, but also me being the head and only baker,

um, being able to make enough inventory that's fresh for a two day market.

So, my hope is with the markets, I can potentially do, a few in November, maybe. One or so early December and then also have specifically like holiday menu. So a Thanksgiving or in a Christmas menu for porch pickup. So those, that's my plan. And last year, my Thanksgiving menu for whatever reason was so much more popular than. My christmas menu and I don't know if it was just the way I marketed it but it's always a learning experience to see what works for people and what doesn't um, and then of course,

uh, Trying to do porch pickups in between those markets.

Exactly. So i've done markets where 25 minutes away from my home and they might be great for that day But in terms of actually leading to porch pickups Not really because that person would maybe not be interested in

driving that far just for a weekly porch pickup.

Yes. And then the other thought is when they're buying, you're probably really good at this, but do you invite them to join your

It can feel a little bit like, well, I'm just making the line drag by

spending the extra time on

Yeah, I totally understand that. So with the goal of building up that customer list, what feels like the easiest next step to get there?

I definitely like your idea of jumping on Facebook. I think that would be a great option. And then of course, definitely honing in on those neighborhood groups for people who are, invested and located in my neighborhood. Who would be interested in supporting a local business? I would love to think about maybe one or two other items that I could add to my goals that could help expand that and I don't really know what the what that would be because you know one definitely doesn't want to Be pushy or salesy.

And oh, by the way, you can order. So, if there was another way to increase my customer base, or even with other small businesses that I think would be a little bit more organic I think I would feel a little bit sort of less pushy, less like I'm, You know, doing the sales

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes me feel icky,

into. Do you know if there are any women's business groups, women's networking groups, things like that in your area?

Um,

So, I don't know if they, something like porch pickup, if that would be close enough that they would want to do that, it could be something like, well, Hey, I'm going to do a drop off the day after porch pickup. Or the same day, but then again, it comes into logistics. And how do you make that work? And then would anyone really order? If it's only maybe 15 stylists or estheticians or whatever. So, yeah, I do think some of this is trial and

error

and see what sticks and what doesn't,

yeah, we've done a couple collaborations. So around Father's Day, we did a I think it was a Papa pedicure and cookie package. So, it was like a flat rate and they got a choice of two flavors of cookies and then the Papa pedicure. And I don't know if maybe dads are not as. interested in pedicures or if somehow that didn't entice people, but I think there was only maybe one or two for those. But what we also did was I had cookies there for them to purchase if they would like. The tricky part about cottage food in my state is one has to sell directly to the consumer. So, Wholesale or even I guess selling to someone and then them going and [00:34:00] then selling to another person. tricky. So, um, it's technically not allowed, so that makes it more limiting.

hmm. Yeah, I deal with the same limitation here. So pop ups can be really helpful. A pop up can be super hit or miss as far as new people coming. But if you meet one or two new people who don't know about you and they become regulars, sometimes that can be worth it.

Like I had one market that was a dud several months ago, but I gained one regular customer and he orders every single week. He just picked up his three loaves a minute ago.

Yeah. You can maybe try like a sip and shop in the evening or

even like a Botox party or something like that. If that's something that they do.

yeah, that's a great idea. They do those so that that would be great. And I could, I think they do offer food to people like snacks and such at the Botox party, but I could try to You know, bring items that, um, will overlap with that ,

Yeah. Or even sponsor it

Oh, yeah, that's a great idea.

Show up as a sponsor and offer your bread for the charcuterie spread or whatever they're offering. Something complimentary.

cold calling

or emailing or whatever

the business and asking if they'd be looking for a

pop

Yeah. And sometimes those hard steps are necessary,

the cold calling, but sometimes they really do want new vendors and excited to hear from you.

that's a great point. And the worst they can say is no, right. So, as long as you're polite and, Aren't a huge pain to work with and just say okay. Thanks. I understand. I think it it won't be a huge burden on them

Yeah, I will definitely have to look into whether it be a brewery or a sip and shop in my area, I do agree that like proximity is really important. And so finding something in my neck of the woods where, customers would be interested in still coming to my neighborhood because they're not

far. So definitely trying to hone in on that. That's a great idea.

So with the goal of reaching out a little bit more, building more connections, what feels easiest to take the next step?

Um,

I think the idea of either sponsoring or having a little, uh, pop up table at an event. I think that's a great idea. So I can reach out to the salon that I have a relationship with and maybe talk to them about, could I sponsor the bread for for the snacks at your next Botox party? I think that would be wonderful.

So for example, a restaurant, a sit down restaurant. That that probably wouldn't be my guess as somebody who would want a little pop up, but maybe a different type of atmosphere, like, whether it be a brewery or like a paint shop or something like that, maybe they would be more open minded

and more interested in having someone have a

there while, um, while the evening Yeah, absolutely.

That's great. And so one thing about Seattle is just because property is so expensive. Some businesses, a lot of small businesses are very small. So, if they, if a pop up was to happen, it might need to be outdoors. And I don't know if that's the same issue with where you live, but do you just set up a tent outside and if the weather's not very great, you just deal, Okay, yeah, because I think trying to create a perfect environment

where you're indoors and have everything lined up ready perfectly.

It's probably not realistic. So if I'm looking for a perfect pop up, uh, where I'm, , protected from the elements and and it's also, the right customer base and the right location, I think. It's probably not going to all line up um,

Yeah, that's an unfortunate dose of reality. But I do kind of just have to roll with it. And , I always ask if I need to bring a table and a tent.

won't be as, um,

Yeah. Yeah. If you can kind of front load the fall with markets and with the goal of building your porch pickups for Thanksgiving and Christmas, then maybe you won't have to do as many outdoor events once the weather gets nasty.

that's a great

idea. Okay. Well, I have A to do list ready in my

mind, ready to go.

What do you think might keep you stuck?

Um,

I do think part of me is always like, Oh, am I going to bother people by , cold calling or emailing them. And am I going to be, the small business owner who, it's probably, not worth their time, but I think I think just reminding myself of, product quality that I offer and the sense of pride that I have in my business is a big, we'll go a long way.

would, not be a big, uh, burden on , the

Yeah, you can even ask yourself how would coming into their space benefit them and then share that with them, whether that's introducing new clients to them or, see how you can make it a win win experience.

And they may feel, I don't think that they would feel like you're a burden anyway. But that can help you come in with that motivation of like, I'm here to serve you too.

And I would love to partner in a way that benefits both of us.

But the thought did cross my mind, maybe I could,

um, try to focus on the more health conscious things, ,

Yeah. That feels like a great idea, especially if that's a space that you're regularly in and people know your face, maybe, you know, a few people, and if you just show up with the sourdough and then some literature about how sourdough benefits the body, and then maybe you can let them know that you have additional products.

In case they want to indulge or gift them to someone, but lean into the healthy part that like is more situated to that ideal audience.

choices. ,

Yeah. That's a great idea. All right. I love it. So do you feel like you have a clear set of next steps or do you still have some lingering questions that you feel like might hold you back?

So there's that. So I always try to keep that, safe and protected until I know for sure that they're a customer that is actually interested in buying a product.

Um, but I do think the rest of this will probably be trial and error, like you said, and see what sticks and what doesn't.

Yeah, definitely. The advantage of the Nextdoor app is that it's hyper local, so it's really can target your immediate area. I have not used it a lot personally, but like one post I gained a customer. I think like one person saw it and she came to the market the next week and bought from me. Um, so you're targeting the people who are really, really close to you.

So that might be a good.

Yeah. Well, that, that's definitely has.

Yeah, because they're, um, they're located in my area. So they, the proximity piece that they're, you know, it's not a huge distance for them to travel.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed listening to your podcast and following you on Instagram and

I'll definitely. Um, work on the things that we

Yes. I would love to hear a follow up if you want to email me or

send me a message in a couple months and let me know. I would love to hear the successes.

Yes, I will

definitely do that. I will plan on, , jumping on it

and, and giving you. feedback

All right. Awesome. Well, thank you, Verena, for spending time with me today. It's been really fun chatting with you.

You too. Thank you so much for your time.

Yeah. We'll talk later.

All right. If this episode got your wheels turning. If you resonated in any way, I would love if you screenshot it. Share it to your Instagram and tag me. I'm carolinebower_sourdough. If you aren't already following the show, make sure to do that. So you don't miss an episode.

I'll be back very soon and until then, happy baking.