Most CEOs don’t struggle with a lack of ideas — they struggle with too many. The real constraint is knowing which decisions actually matter, and which ones are just noise.

In this episode, Christiane Schroeder introduces a three-part decision framework to help CEOs cut through complexity, move faster, and lead with clarity — without getting stuck waiting for alignment or delaying action under uncertainty.

Christiane Schroeder is a decision-making and leadership advisor who works with CEOs to improve clarity, execution, and team alignment. In this conversation, she breaks down a practical framework built around three recurring decision challenges: separating signal from noise, distinguishing alignment from approval, and acting despite uncertainty.

The discussion focuses on why decision-making slows down in scaling companies — not due to lack of vision, but because of overload, misaligned priorities, and hesitation. Her framework provides a structured way to restore momentum by narrowing focus, distributing action, and reframing fear as a necessary part of leadership.

Key Takeaways

1. Decision-making quality defines CEO effectiveness - The business cannot move faster than the clarity of its decisions.
2. Signal vs. noise is the first filter - Focus on what you can control and what directly impacts outcomes.
3. Waiting for approval creates unnecessary drag - Teams can move forward on defined workstreams before full alignment.
4. Momentum comes from small, distributed actions - Breaking decisions into smaller steps accelerates execution and engagement.
5. Fear is part of the process — not a stop signal CEOs must act without waiting to feel fully ready.

00:01 — Host introduction and episode framing

00:44 — Decision making importance for CEOs

01:24 — Leadership impact of decision making

02:08 — Introducing three-step decision framework

03:30 — Signal versus noise concept

05:01 — Structuring priorities and timelines

07:31 — Small steps and petite practice concept

08:36 — Breaking big decisions into actions

10:22 — Alignment versus approval distinction

12:05 — Speed and momentum in organizations

13:27 — River crossing and execution analogy

16:08 — Fear versus readiness framework

18:19 — Overcoming fear and taking action

20:14 — Consistency and small-step execution

24:51 — Applying the framework as a CEO

26:10 — Team strengths and delegation insights

29:09 — Unique signals and competitive positioning

30:41 — Framework recap and closing thoughts

Guest: Christiane Schroeder

Decision-Making & Leadership Advisor (Dr. Christiane)

Website: https://doctorchristiane.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianeschroeter/

Host: Jeff Holman

The Breakout CEO Podcast

You can only be as good as a CEO as really your decision making is.

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Try to differentiate signal, that's like things you can control, and noise.

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What is really something I want to be known for a month from today, three months from

today, six months from today?

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What really comes down to it?

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Where do you need to wait for approval?

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Or what is it maybe that you could already let your team work on right now?

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Welcome back everybody to the breakout CEO podcast.

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I'm Jeff Holman, your host, and you're joining us for one of our advisory insights

episodes.

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This should be releasing mid-March or so.

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So it'll be maybe spring will start to start to appear wherever you're at.

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So and today I'm excited to talk with Christiana Schroeder.

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Christiana, thanks for coming on the show.

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Thanks so much for having me here, Jeff.

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Audience is gonna be a good one.

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You're gonna get ready for the spring.

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And we're definitely giving you some good insights here today.

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Yeah, I'm excited.

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I'm really excited to chat with you.

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And we were talking, we had a great chat beforehand.

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You were showing me some of the stuff about your TEDx talk and your company.

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And we talked podcast lighting backgrounds.

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Like, we're all good to go here.

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We broke out for you already.

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Warmed up.

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So this is going to be really good because now it's just like us cheering all the best and

you can tune in and gather all these amazing insights.

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Yes, I'm excited about it.

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And today we're going to talk about how CEOs uh make and evaluate and come to conclusions

on big decisions.

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So we're talking about the decision making process.

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so Cristiana, you're going to help us and help our audience and CEOs who are out there

facing big problems, big decisions.

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You're going to help them figure out how to maybe think about that decision making process

a little bit better, right?

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Yeah, and I think that's really what it comes down to that you can only be as good as a

CEO as really your decision making is.

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And we will help you today and maybe build a little bit more structure in making those

decisions.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree.

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I've worked with a lot of CEOs from the legal side of things and I see a lot of CEOs who

are big visionaries, right?

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And they have all these ideas and, you know, despite whether you're a visionary CEO or

not, because there are other types too, but nothing really ever happens until you make the

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decision, right?

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You can see big things, you can uh dream big dreams, but you've got to put things into

action.

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And that's where decision making comes into play, I think.

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Right.

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And I also think that, you know, and we will talk more about this because I have this

three-step system that really comes down to it, that you can really, as you are making

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decisions, you can really inspire others to become a good leader because they will look up

to you and they will follow your decisions.

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So your decisions are amazing to reach your goals, but they are also there to really

impact the whole team.

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If you think of like in a boat.

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where we all rowing together, like very much in sync.

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That's really what it comes down to.

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I'm always amazed about these people, you know, when you see them, and you might know this

from Salt Lake City too, right?

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Where you have this person and it was like going all together.

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That's always think about decision-making, that if there's a really good CEO and a good

leader, that it's very much in sync.

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It's just beautiful to look at.

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I love that.

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You're adding a whole other side to it.

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It's not just making a decision like in isolation, but you're actually leveraging the

power of the team through the decision-making process.

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That's fantastic.

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Well, let's get into this and maybe let's start.

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you had some experiences, you know, working with company CEOs or executives where you've

seen the decision-making process unnecessarily stall or get in the way of the business?

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Very much so.

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And I think it comes down to what you mentioned earlier, great visionaries.

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And I listened to them and it even starts in the very first meeting to where I'm like

hearing a lot of great things, but it's so much noise.

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And my very first thing is actually try to differentiate signal.

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That's like things you can control and noise because

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You can talk and you have great ideas, but sometimes it's like, you don't necessarily

actually have the means to get there or control some of these things.

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So what is really the signal you want to send and what are maybe some goals that really

align with your company's vision?

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Because there's a lot of things we can always do, but it's just like all these small

tiddly little things that you lose your time and drain your energy.

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And at the end of the day,

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You really want to focus on something where the whole team feels like this is really

something we are working towards.

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And that's the signal we want to send to our customers.

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But as also fields, we are all part of this one unique thing and everything else is just

noise.

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And you just have to shut that out.

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You just have to say, we're working on this one thing.

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Let's break this down into small individual steps.

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Let's distribute the functions, but that's the one thing we're working towards.

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So we're really finding that clarity is the number one thing.

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that you need to be completely solid on.

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love that clarity of the signals.

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How would a CEO who's approaching their business, they show up every day in the office or

they show up with their team and there's just so much in front of them, right?

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They've got the problems that feel urgent and immediate and maybe sometimes huge, uh maybe

life threatening to the business.

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They've got the team, the internal things, they've got the new product launch they're

working on or they're trying to establish partnerships.

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making sure money's in the bank, right?

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There's so many things that a CEO is trying to do.

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How do they distinguish between signal, like meaningful signal and noise?

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I think what it comes down to is looking at the decisions in somewhat structured timeline.

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Like, right, what is really something I want to be known for a month from today, three

months from today, six months from today?

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And I'm hesitant to sometimes say like a year from today, because to me, the shorter

timelines actually bring things into a more urgent perspective.

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So don't they?

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What do I want to be known for in five years or 15 years?

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Because things change very fast.

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But really like looking at, right, what matters in a month from today?

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And then you all of a sudden realize a lot of these things don't necessarily matter.

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They were just there, but they are really not going to make the decision so much more

impactful.

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And sometimes we also have

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too broad of a vision where it really just comes down to finding the clarity and niching

down and becoming much stronger in terms of, always say it's niching down where really the

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focus comes in.

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Strong niche down is much better than being broad and just scraping the surface or

something.

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So if you have a lot of decisions, maybe, I mean, like I'm a visual thinker.

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I sometimes say, right, why do all these things down on sticky notes?

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And then let's, let's try to create like a little bit of an order here.

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Right.

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What do you really feel will bring money in the bank of all these sticky notes and start

putting them on a pile.

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And then even within that pile, what's the most pertinent decision and all of a sudden,

all these sticky notes, it's like, what's I even thinking?

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Right.

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Uh, it was like all these things, but they actually really don't make that much of a

difference right now.

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And right now all that matters is maybe these three important tasks.

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So let's focus on this and let's keep going.

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Is this is this similar then to EOS and finding your big rocks for the next 90 days?

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Is that that's what we're talking about here?

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And I actually, um, I showed you my mug earlier.

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That's my trademark.

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call it petite practice.

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Petite is French for small.

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And then practice is that first step that you take towards reaching your goal.

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So my tagline is, you know, small steps, but be creating a big impact because you take the

small steps consistently.

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And you're really looking at the big goal that comes at the end of multiple small steps.

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So much more meaningful than thinking, my gosh, I'm going to sit down on this one day and

I'm going to crank it out for this deadline tomorrow.

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It's really just like chopping away at something consistently and looking at it in terms

of really creating impact with small wins, consistently picking it up and creating

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momentum with that.

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Well, so that's an interesting perspective then.

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Should CEOs be spending more of their time making big decisions or making sure the small

decisions are being made well?

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Is there a distinction there?

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Beautiful.

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I think big decisions broken down into small steps because you want to be the person that

involves everybody, gives people the authority.

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And I always say, if you think about a good leader, right?

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So listening, leading goes with listening, but also executing.

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your J today function and then giving authority is really important, but then finding the

direction.

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So earlier we were talking about the boat, how we all rowing together.

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You need listen, you need to find, you know, ways you can get to your goal.

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And sure, it can be a big goal, but you need to give authority and those authority steps

could be smaller functions that lead to that big goal.

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And then you need to check in, have direction as like, all right, so can you give me an

app?

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update on what you're currently working on.

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And I would love to hear how can I help you in getting to the end of the function you're

currently working on.

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So really making sure you're distributing functions, but you're also creating an open

communication line to check back in and how this is going.

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I love that.

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I want to make sure that I'm not skipping around too much and that I'm keeping this

straight for myself and for the audience.

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So you've got your three part system.

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so make sure, help me understand where, you know, we talk about signals and then we talk

about kind of these delegation functions, checking in, listening, all that.

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How did those all fit together within the broader framework?

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So we had the signal versus noise.

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And if you want to stick to our visuals, that was like writing down all goals, all things

that seem pertinent right now on these sticky notes, and then maybe reading like an order

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and all of a sudden realizing that a lot of these sticky notes could maybe go a little bit

into like a parking lot, right?

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Not that they're not important, but they're just like hanging out there.

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I actually frequently use the comparison like into a refrigerator.

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So we keep them fresh.

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don't let them spoil, but at the same time, we don't necessarily need to deal with them at

this very moment.

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Right.

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Now the second step would be figuring about alignment versus approval.

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Like what really comes down to it?

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Where do you need to wait for approval?

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Or what is it maybe that you could already let your team work on right now?

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Because this is important sometimes.

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There are so many decision makers involved and you really can't do anything about that and

that's all right.

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But you can maybe already create some momentum with tasks with your team.

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And it's unbelievable what I've seen how the motivation will really rise when there are

these small, fast, quick wins.

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Because people really feel, all right, we're actually getting something done here.

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And then once you get approval, you can tackle the next thing.

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So it's so important not to stall and wait and say, right, so I'm still like, you know,

trying to figure this out over here, et cetera.

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See if there is something you can already chip away from and distribute those tasks

because those quick wins will actually get the momentum then rolling and working on the

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next step.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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It reminds me of a, I was in a board meeting this morning with a client and you know, the

board of directors, some observers, management is there and they're talking and they've

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got a new CEO uh and the new CEO was giving kind of a vision for where they're headed as a

company.

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And one of the phrases she said, I think maybe aligns with what you're talking about.

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She said that, you know, we've been talking with the team, we've done good work, the prior

CEO got us to where we're at, all this stuff, right?

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But,

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As a team, they've been talking where are we headed now?

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And the phrase came out, you know, we're too, cause I work with a lot of startups and

scaling companies.

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They're not behemoth corporations, you know, they're expected to move slowly.

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These are smaller companies expected to move quickly.

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And she said, you know, we're, we're too small to be uh taking this long to make decisions

and get things done.

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So she was just articulating that they have an advantage and they need to be taking

advantage of that.

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of that, uh of their size and their nimble nature to be able to move quicker in what

they're doing.

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And I think that aligns with when you have alignment in the team and you give people

approvals and they're able to act quickly, get those quick wins and kind of move from task

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to task like a small company is sort of expected to do as opposed to a big bureaucratic

organization.

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Completely.

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mean, like, think about like, you're one side of the river and you're looking to the other

side of the river and you're creating like these little tasks that are these stepping

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stones crossing the river and you're making them small enough so that everybody on your

team can just hop from stone to stone right there.

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That's like really aligning your path and you're making it clear that all of your team

sees it.

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All right, we're going to go this path right here and we all on board and we're going to

take this step by step and

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So you can look down, you see river water.

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It's not always great.

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That's actually my third point to where we're coming.

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Yeah.

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But at the same time, you also have to celebrate the win.

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We are already halfway on this path because on this, you'd be like, Oh my gosh, here we

are in the middle of this.

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And it's like, yeah, but still, I mean, you could have waited on the other side of the

river and just thought about crossing it.

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And here we go.

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You actually took the steps.

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So that's amazing.

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You have to celebrate the messy middle.

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Yeah, it's sort of off topic, so I'm not going to go into details, but this river crossing

reminds me of a time I took some inexperienced young men, some scouts, into an area of

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Utah called the Hiawintas.

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It's an undeveloped area, and we ran into something called Swift Creek, but I think it was

more like Rapid River that time of year.

191

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I wish we had had some small stones.

192

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We had to actually take a tree trunk and push it over and...

193

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It was dangerous.

194

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was like small steps would have been so much nicer, especially for the team.

195

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Anyway, that's more detailed than we need to get into, but the vision of putting the steps

in place, you know, small steps, like that makes so much sense to me.

196

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Yeah.

197

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And actually, I love it.

198

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You bring up the tree trunk.

199

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And you didn't have the stones right there.

200

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Because I think good entrepreneur, that's just what they do.

201

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They're not going to be like, well, we didn't have rocks, we couldn't cross the river,

right?

202

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They're going to be like, well, what else could we do?

203

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Yes.

204

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Let's look around.

205

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Well, maybe find a tree.

206

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And it could be, this was maybe not the first tree, maybe you had to find multiple trees

to get the one that actually then allowed you to get all the way to the other side, right?

207

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That's just what entrepreneurship is, right?

208

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It's finding opportunities when you deal with obstacles.

209

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Yeah, I will say it got us most of the way.

210

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There was a little bit of a jump at the end there, but it did its job.

211

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So, okay, so we've got uh signal versus noise, we've got alignment and approvals.

212

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And what's the next step there?

213

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Feeling fear versus feeling ready.

214

00:16:34,938 --> 00:16:38,278

I think that's actually the most important part right there.

215

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I personally think we always seem to be a little bit afraid.

216

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You can never just sit on the sidelines and say, I'm not ready yet.

217

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I don't think I'm ready yet.

218

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That's just not really how life works.

219

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Right.

220

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I actually personally define fear as face everything and rise.

221

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I love that.

222

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Yeah, I mean, if you're afraid, that's great because it means A, you care and B, that

you're just going to put yourself out there.

223

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And if you wouldn't put yourself out there, you would never see how it's going to be.

224

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Right.

225

00:17:16,142 --> 00:17:24,715

Do you run across CEOs who don't utilize fear to motivate them, who get stalled by the

fears?

226

00:17:24,715 --> 00:17:31,107

get this a lot and I'm in publishing too, so can see if you watch this on video, you can

see some books behind me.

227

00:17:31,107 --> 00:17:39,990

I get this a lot, especially with authors or people that write books or create content,

right?

228

00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:49,703

Content creators, because it's fast to create content, are also very much into the

stalling mechanism.

229

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It's like, don't think it's ready yet.

230

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It's maybe the fear that if you put yourself out there that nobody will buy it or nobody

will be interested in it.

231

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Yeah, and nobody wants to have their baby called ugly either, right?

232

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It's like, put so much effort into this or this is coming from within and now I'm exposing

it.

233

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And what if people don't love it the way that I think they should love it?

234

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Like that's natural with a lot of inventors that I've worked with also.

235

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Yeah.

236

00:18:18,106 --> 00:18:23,720

And then, um, I, sometimes, I sometimes have only two words as a response.

237

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I'm like, so what?

238

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And you're like, what do mean?

239

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It's like, I mean, who cares?

240

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Nobody will love it.

241

00:18:30,655 --> 00:18:34,938

Do you really think 100 % of the people will not love it?

242

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Even if 99 % of them don't love it, there will be still 1 % that might.

243

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And wouldn't that be cool to reach that 1 %?

244

00:18:41,303 --> 00:18:46,316

And maybe then if you try it again, they promote a little heavier.

245

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Maybe another 1%.

246

00:18:47,547 --> 00:18:49,048

That's all we're aiming for.

247

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We're not aiming for improvement that dislike these giant leaps.

248

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We're just improving 1%.

249

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And if you think about that, a lot of famous authors, that's really how they got started,

right?

250

00:19:00,508 --> 00:19:07,524

They just started small and then they just ticked up from there, these petite practices.

251

00:19:07,545 --> 00:19:13,889

So if you don't put your book out there or your content or whatever, we will never know

how it goes.

252

00:19:14,094 --> 00:19:19,074

Yeah, I listened to a book on tape once a while back when that was more common.

253

00:19:19,074 --> 00:19:22,434

I think it was a book on CD maybe at the time.

254

00:19:22,434 --> 00:19:31,374

This was, I'm giving my age, this was back when I was commuting, you know, an hour and a

half each way in California, not too, you a little bit north of where you're at now.

255

00:19:31,374 --> 00:19:39,774

I was commuting back and forth to a law firm and I listened to, I think the book was

called Stephen King's On Writing, if you've ever heard of it.

256

00:19:39,774 --> 00:19:44,206

But he walked through his process and what you're saying now, you know, it really makes me

think,

257

00:19:44,206 --> 00:19:49,226

You don't, Stephen King did not start with a library of books that he'd authored, right?

258

00:19:49,226 --> 00:19:56,206

In fact, I think he started writing, if I remember right, this I'm going back a ways, this

is 20, 20 plus years ago.

259

00:19:56,206 --> 00:20:00,585

I think he started writing in penthouse and he was writing articles or something like

that.

260

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So he's just started small and started going and then went into books and other stuff.

261

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And of course he's developed a successful career, but you know, what you're saying really

makes me think.

262

00:20:12,526 --> 00:20:14,557

People write books one page at a time.

263

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You don't write an entire book and have it done.

264

00:20:18,949 --> 00:20:27,954

And so if you're not going to start that page, if you're not going to overcome your, we'll

call it writer's block maybe for some people, but maybe that's just another version of

265

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fear, right?

266

00:20:29,194 --> 00:20:37,618

If you're not going to overcome your fear to take that first step, then it's really hard

to get the book written and published and out there and see the results of it.

267

00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:47,229

Yeah, when I wrote my dissertation, I remember very much thinking, because I looked at

them in the library and I was like, gosh, these are like heavy.

268

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mean, getting a doctorate degree is not like writing a paper.

269

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Like we're talking like close to 200 pages.

270

00:20:56,586 --> 00:20:58,627

all this in a foreign language, right?

271

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mean, I came from Germany.

272

00:20:59,908 --> 00:21:04,031

was like, then I thought, well, actually not that bad.

273

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So if you take whatever 150, 180 pages and divide it out by the length of time you give

yourself to write this, you could do two pages per day.

274

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within three months, you have something pretty solid going.

275

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And that's really how it works.

276

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Right.

277

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You just have to consistently sit down and write two pages per day, or depending on what

content you create, keep that up.

278

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And you have to be honest with yourself too.

279

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Like after the two pages, you can give yourself permission to walk away.

280

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Don't like, well, well, well, maybe today I'm just going to edit what I wrote yesterday

because it wasn't that great.

281

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You can't do that.

282

00:21:35,803 --> 00:21:37,064

You have to build, right?

283

00:21:37,064 --> 00:21:38,545

It's like knitting a sweater.

284

00:21:38,545 --> 00:21:41,086

I've not ended sweater, but I imagine, right?

285

00:21:41,086 --> 00:21:43,387

You're not like, well, let me open this up again.

286

00:21:43,387 --> 00:21:46,309

What I did yesterday, right?

287

00:21:46,309 --> 00:21:49,791

This way you have to just keep going, building, building.

288

00:21:49,931 --> 00:21:55,438

And I know it's tempting because it's at least, at least I think.

289

00:21:55,438 --> 00:22:02,318

Nobody sits there with a typewriter and actually like see the pages coming out of your

machine.

290

00:22:02,558 --> 00:22:06,878

So it's tempting on a computer to just like use the back cursor and delete.

291

00:22:06,878 --> 00:22:07,898

Yeah.

292

00:22:07,898 --> 00:22:10,038

You have to do that.

293

00:22:10,038 --> 00:22:22,378

Um, you have to face everything and rise and you have to be okay with the fact that

whatever you do, whether that's publishing or, you know, presenting or speaking somewhere.

294

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in terms of like your fear of being on that big stage, you have to put yourself out there

and you have to be okay with the fact that you inspired one person in the audience and

295

00:22:33,187 --> 00:22:40,490

maybe not all 1000 that were listening to this because that's just really what you have to

go for and that will change your mindset too.

296

00:22:40,684 --> 00:22:53,915

Yeah, I'm reminded of my youth when I used to do some piano and I was never very, I was

okay as a piano player, but I was never very good as uh a performer, right?

297

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You do your recitals every year or whatever.

298

00:22:56,347 --> 00:23:04,814

And I always wished I could be more like the students who, when they would mess up,

because we all mess up, when they would mess up, they would keep playing.

299

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And it sounded like it flowed.

300

00:23:07,226 --> 00:23:09,817

You might be like, maybe they messed up, I'm not sure.

301

00:23:10,388 --> 00:23:15,422

But it's the other kids like I was, and this is, I just didn't know how to do it better.

302

00:23:15,422 --> 00:23:17,783

When I would mess up, I would stop.

303

00:23:17,804 --> 00:23:21,407

I would think, I'd go back and try to replay.

304

00:23:21,407 --> 00:23:27,171

And that's just so disruptive compared to, know, minor mistake, keep playing.

305

00:23:27,171 --> 00:23:30,294

And everybody is like, I'm not even sure if you messed up.

306

00:23:30,294 --> 00:23:31,194

So.

307

00:23:31,734 --> 00:23:32,775

Beautiful comparison.

308

00:23:32,775 --> 00:23:36,697

helped somebody the other day getting ready for a big presentation.

309

00:23:36,738 --> 00:23:39,286

And so I was watching them go through the presentation.

310

00:23:39,286 --> 00:23:42,761

I kind of have like always like this, this look on, right.

311

00:23:43,142 --> 00:23:45,624

And they messed up multiple times, right.

312

00:23:45,624 --> 00:23:47,445

And they were like, but we're looking at your face.

313

00:23:47,445 --> 00:23:56,411

And I was like, well, mean, I, I'm just having this neutral face, but in between messing

up, I'm just wondering, did you really think I would notice that you messed up?

314

00:23:56,411 --> 00:23:58,452

Because I don't think I would have, right?

315

00:23:58,452 --> 00:24:01,240

It's not like I'm, my gosh, it just messed up.

316

00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:09,056

But by saying, my ears like this slide and it shows sales and I know it's too small for

you to actually see it.

317

00:24:09,056 --> 00:24:12,258

It's like, I wasn't actually even looking at the numbers.

318

00:24:12,258 --> 00:24:15,580

I wasn't even thinking about the fact that the font is too small.

319

00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:19,793

But once you pointed this out to me, I was like, my gosh, that font is so small there.

320

00:24:19,793 --> 00:24:21,244

Why would you ever put it on the slide?

321

00:24:21,244 --> 00:24:21,765

Right.

322

00:24:21,765 --> 00:24:23,716

But so don't even draw attention to it.

323

00:24:23,716 --> 00:24:24,617

Just move on.

324

00:24:24,617 --> 00:24:29,120

And quite honestly, it makes it more eerie.

325

00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:39,959

If you just keep going because it makes you appear human, especially now in the age of AI,

where we are feeling this is all progress and it always beats perfection.

326

00:24:39,959 --> 00:24:44,923

We don't need to stand there and give the most polished slideshow in the world.

327

00:24:44,924 --> 00:24:46,255

That's not why they came.

328

00:24:46,255 --> 00:24:47,776

They came to connect with you.

329

00:24:47,776 --> 00:24:48,746

Right.

330

00:24:48,787 --> 00:24:54,812

And I think that's so important and it makes it sometimes like so much less stressful.

331

00:24:54,812 --> 00:24:57,344

If you just keep that in mind that.

332

00:24:57,558 --> 00:25:03,968

messing up is really what the audience actually sometimes loves even more than a polished

presentation.

333

00:25:04,066 --> 00:25:05,349

Yeah, that's fantastic.

334

00:25:05,349 --> 00:25:11,123

So where does a CEO start if they feel like they want to use this framework, put it into

practice?

335

00:25:11,123 --> 00:25:13,870

Like, what's the first step they should be thinking about?

336

00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:23,910

I it's connecting with your team, really fine tuning who's part on your team, what are

their inputs in this, this listening.

337

00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:35,950

I talked about the leadership example, listening, because you don't want to be the person

that just comes in with all these ideas and I've been like, oh my, here we go again.

338

00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:41,770

So a good leader, I think, starts with listening and then talking.

339

00:25:41,770 --> 00:25:43,926

Listen first, speak second.

340

00:25:43,926 --> 00:25:45,096

I think that's really important.

341

00:25:45,096 --> 00:25:46,447

Where are we right now?

342

00:25:46,447 --> 00:25:48,447

How do we feel about where we are right now?

343

00:25:48,447 --> 00:25:49,047

Okay.

344

00:25:49,047 --> 00:25:50,888

So that's maybe make a plan.

345

00:25:50,888 --> 00:25:52,188

Where do we want to go?

346

00:25:52,188 --> 00:26:00,950

Where do we want to go a week, a month and three months from now, really breaking it down

into like the current state.

347

00:26:01,071 --> 00:26:11,153

And then after you assess that what worked well in the past, let's move some of the things

that worked well into, can use those to move forward.

348

00:26:11,153 --> 00:26:13,780

It's like you turn around, you pick up the

349

00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:19,621

solid rock that you just stepped on and you put it in front of you to take the next step.

350

00:26:19,622 --> 00:26:20,543

Yes.

351

00:26:22,031 --> 00:26:22,751

I love that.

352

00:26:22,751 --> 00:26:31,702

love that rock tree trunk, whatever you need to whatever you need to find What do you

think a CEO will see once they start to effectively put this into practice?

353

00:26:32,002 --> 00:26:36,345

Sometimes I think they see skills in people, but they totally underestimate it.

354

00:26:36,345 --> 00:26:49,823

And I think that, and it comes back to what I talked about earlier with regard to aligning

and approval that frequently you're under using your team members and maybe even delegate

355

00:26:49,823 --> 00:26:52,244

more to them, which gives them direction.

356

00:26:52,244 --> 00:26:58,348

at the same time, it also allows you to really focus yourself on.

357

00:26:58,348 --> 00:27:00,379

the steps that you're really good at.

358

00:27:00,379 --> 00:27:03,202

What is your unique value you bring to the company?

359

00:27:03,202 --> 00:27:06,244

You don't want to be bogged down with all the details.

360

00:27:06,244 --> 00:27:09,526

You could have these delegated to your team members.

361

00:27:09,526 --> 00:27:14,079

So by listening and really focusing and on like, okay, what are they really bringing to

the table?

362

00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:18,273

Is there something I didn't previously know that they could do?

363

00:27:18,273 --> 00:27:24,727

You could take things off your plate and then distribute them effectively after you really

listened in what their skills are.

364

00:27:24,727 --> 00:27:26,348

And I think that's

365

00:27:26,434 --> 00:27:30,514

That sometimes when I see a meeting, it's like, did you actually ask them about this?

366

00:27:30,514 --> 00:27:35,227

It's like, no, it's like, Oh, didn't you like, why you never talk to them?

367

00:27:35,227 --> 00:27:35,567

Right.

368

00:27:35,567 --> 00:27:44,568

It's so important to first like really do like this, this quick pulse check and connect

with them and really figure out, right, where are we here?

369

00:27:44,568 --> 00:27:52,273

What's really on the table right now is like, are we all feeling, you know, we bring

things to the table and we getting hurt.

370

00:27:52,273 --> 00:27:53,654

That's so important.

371

00:27:53,654 --> 00:28:03,781

Yeah, it's as I think about this framework that you're presenting and the ability for CEOs

to implement it, it seems like it's probably self-reinforcing.

372

00:28:03,781 --> 00:28:08,715

The more alignment we get, the better we're going to be at getting more alignment in the

future.

373

00:28:08,715 --> 00:28:18,432

And the more we overcome our fears and we give people authority to take actions, that's

going to reinforce for them what they can do well.

374

00:28:18,432 --> 00:28:21,194

And they're going to do more of that well.

375

00:28:21,622 --> 00:28:26,054

When we start to see the right signals, we're going to know how to utilize those signals.

376

00:28:26,054 --> 00:28:32,947

fact, I was talking with a CEO of uh a SaaS company yesterday and I said, what signals are

you looking for in your business?

377

00:28:32,947 --> 00:28:34,678

And it's always interesting to hear what they say.

378

00:28:34,678 --> 00:28:36,638

And he gave a surprising answer.

379

00:28:36,638 --> 00:28:44,062

He had drilled so far down into the different metrics that he could within his company.

380

00:28:44,062 --> 00:28:45,812

like, Jeff, this is the one.

381

00:28:45,812 --> 00:28:49,912

If this one, and I was surprised, I'm like, how would you ever come up with that?

382

00:28:49,912 --> 00:28:51,944

Like that's not revenue, that's not users.

383

00:28:51,944 --> 00:29:01,630

It was a very, very uh specific signal that to me as an outsider looking at it, I wouldn't

have even thought that was a number you tracked.

384

00:29:01,670 --> 00:29:03,822

to him, he's like, that is the one.

385

00:29:03,822 --> 00:29:06,754

That's the one that is the signal for the rest of our business.

386

00:29:06,754 --> 00:29:13,179

So was really cool to hear, you know, I'm sure he's had practice, you know, prior to this

to get to that number.

387

00:29:13,179 --> 00:29:18,346

He probably looked at users or probably looked at, you know, you know, churn or...

388

00:29:18,346 --> 00:29:27,045

revenue or whatever before and he finally said, the one that I tracked that kind of helps

measure every the health of everything across the system is this one.

389

00:29:27,045 --> 00:29:29,307

So this seems very self-reinforcing.

390

00:29:29,307 --> 00:29:30,388

Have you seen that?

391

00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:30,850

Yeah.

392

00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:40,506

And actually love that you're bringing this up because let's, let's look at this as like,

there's a lot of water references that I use in California, but let's look at this as

393

00:29:40,506 --> 00:29:52,164

like, you have this pond of all these competitors in front of you that are all using these

other metrics, but yet you are the one that's maybe measuring things a little bit

394

00:29:52,164 --> 00:29:53,245

differently.

395

00:29:53,245 --> 00:29:55,656

So you can actually attract.

396

00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,842

companies that would align with the way that you operate.

397

00:29:58,842 --> 00:30:03,476

And that really is your differentiating factor, your niche that you are building.

398

00:30:03,696 --> 00:30:15,766

So in a certain way, being really aligned and being really niche down only makes you

stronger in this pond from everybody else that's living in there and looking for customers

399

00:30:15,766 --> 00:30:20,050

and aligning and they're looking at others and then they do what others are doing.

400

00:30:20,050 --> 00:30:25,804

But sometimes it really helps again, not looking at all the noise, but really thinking

about, right, what

401

00:30:25,804 --> 00:30:31,629

What is really that is something unique for us that really moves the needle and let's do

more of that.

402

00:30:31,629 --> 00:30:34,822

And that's the signal we really want to follow right there.

403

00:30:34,822 --> 00:30:40,046

And that becomes really clear that that's becoming the niche that you really want to

uniquely operate in.

404

00:30:40,046 --> 00:30:49,526

Now we're coming full circle, we're back to clarity, focus, and the ability to really be

effective in that leadership role.

405

00:30:49,986 --> 00:30:51,586

I love that.

406

00:30:51,866 --> 00:30:54,286

Well, Cristiana, this has been fantastic.

407

00:30:54,286 --> 00:30:58,466

I've taken a little more of your time than I intended to, but we had a lot of good stuff

to go through.

408

00:30:58,466 --> 00:31:02,186

So I really appreciate you sharing that with me and with our audience.

409

00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:02,480

Yeah.

410

00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:10,147

And, and audience, course, keep in mind, it doesn't always even require you to start in

like step one, right?

411

00:31:10,147 --> 00:31:11,218

Signal and noise.

412

00:31:11,218 --> 00:31:14,980

could be that you are maybe at step two or step three.

413

00:31:15,041 --> 00:31:27,291

These could be uniquely and had changed, but at the same time, these are definitely the

ones that even like on a daily basis, it helps to sometimes kind of reassess, where am I,

414

00:31:27,291 --> 00:31:29,213

where are we going with all this?

415

00:31:29,213 --> 00:31:30,540

And then come back.

416

00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:36,013

because it's so basic that you can cycle through them over and over again.

417

00:31:36,013 --> 00:31:45,437

So I encourage you keep going, but at the same time also figure out really how you can

best utilize your strength with that, unique value.

418

00:31:45,437 --> 00:31:47,227

I will make you a good team leader.

419

00:31:47,342 --> 00:31:47,772

I love that.

420

00:31:47,772 --> 00:31:48,463

I love that.

421

00:31:48,463 --> 00:31:55,879

And if somebody wanted more about this framework, they wanted to dig in deeper with you,

what would be the best way to do that?

422

00:31:56,370 --> 00:32:01,392

Check out my website, drchristiana.com.

423

00:32:01,532 --> 00:32:05,272

And I'm also on YouTube, dr.christiana.

424

00:32:05,272 --> 00:32:08,945

I have my own podcast that's available everywhere.

425

00:32:08,945 --> 00:32:11,806

That's also linked on my website as well.

426

00:32:11,806 --> 00:32:14,837

That's called Happy Healthy Hustle.

427

00:32:14,918 --> 00:32:22,341

And then of course you can grab any of my books on Amazon and some of them have been best

selling there since a couple of years now.

428

00:32:22,341 --> 00:32:25,934

So I would love to encourage you and check them out there as well.

429

00:32:25,934 --> 00:32:26,356

I

430

00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:26,547

that.

431

00:32:26,547 --> 00:32:34,744

So many great resources and uh we're really lucky that you took a few minutes to spend

with us in the audience and sharing this framework.

432

00:32:34,744 --> 00:32:35,004

Yeah.

433

00:32:35,004 --> 00:32:37,656

And then I have a free gift.

434

00:32:37,656 --> 00:32:44,921

If you want to take your goals and maybe turn them around, I call it the do it anyway

challenge.

435

00:32:45,141 --> 00:32:51,666

And it's a five day sequence that you can follow that cycles you through.

436

00:32:51,666 --> 00:32:52,847

It's a quick video.

437

00:32:52,847 --> 00:32:57,710

You get an email with encouragement and then there was an action item at the end.

438

00:32:57,710 --> 00:33:03,564

It allows you to maybe do something anyway, whether you weren't clear about it or certain.

439

00:33:03,564 --> 00:33:06,532

Or maybe you were afraid of it allows this anyway.

440

00:33:06,532 --> 00:33:10,028

That link to the audience as well.

441

00:33:10,028 --> 00:33:11,829

Yeah, we can share all that in the show notes for sure.

442

00:33:11,829 --> 00:33:13,060

Thank you.

443

00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:16,783

Well, thank you for coming on and to our audience who's joined us today for this episode.

444

00:33:16,783 --> 00:33:21,646

Thank you once again for joining us on the Breakout CEO Podcast.

445

00:33:21,646 --> 00:33:22,535

Thank you.

446

00:33:23,522 --> 00:33:27,643

Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.

447

00:33:27,643 --> 00:33:32,284

And if you enjoy the show, a rating or a review goes a long way.

448

00:33:32,665 --> 00:33:45,048

Our mission is to promote the stories of breakout CEOs in scaling, SaaS, e-commerce, and

tech companies to equip peer CEOs with valuable perspectives and confidence.

449

00:33:45,388 --> 00:33:50,269

Thanks again for joining us on this episode of the breakout CEO.

450

00:33:50,269 --> 00:33:53,020

I'm Jeff Holman and I'll see you next time.