"Is it too late to become a PA?" No. Here's where I think this profession is going.

Heading into 2022, a few things kept coming up in my inbox, so I made an episode out of them. Online and hybrid PA programs are growing. There's an ongoing conversation about moving the profession toward a doctoral-level credential. And after the pandemic, people are nervous about whether PA jobs will still be there.

On that last one, my honest read is that healthcare is not running out of patients. The demand for providers is not the thing I'd worry about.

On the doctorate question, that debate has been going for years and it moves slowly. Don't make decisions today based on a change that may or may not happen.

What I cover:

• Where PA education seems to be heading
• Online and hybrid programs and what they mean for applicants
• The doctoral degree conversation, explained plainly
• Job availability for PAs after the pandemic
• Why demand for providers isn't going away
• What actually matters for your decision right now

Resources:

Free Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Pre-PA Academy: https://prepaclub.thepaplatform.com/landing/academy

Mentioned in this episode:

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And today we're going to talk about the future of the PA profession.

What does that look like?

What can you expect?

And get into where this profession is going?

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get foreign.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

Thank you so much for being here and for listening if you are subscribed.

Thank you so much.

If you've left a review, thank you so much.

I. I appreciate it because the goal of this podcast when I started very long ago, I don't know, three years now, was to just get the word out about the PA profession and help more students and more Pre PA applicants figure it out because it can be really complicated.

So as we near the end of the year, I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you for supporting the podcast and supporting the PA Platform and sharing episodes with your friends and people on the Internet when you find them helpful.

I'm Savannah, by the way, Dermatology PA creator of the PA Platform and the Pre PA Club Podcast, and this is going to be a solo episode.

I know we've had a lot of great interviews and I have a lot of great interviews coming up to share next week.

You're actually going to hear from the Dr. Adam Rauch himself of Raash Review.

I was having a total fangirl moment over that because I just think his resources are awesome and what he's done and really talking to him about it was cool.

So Raash Review is a stage study resource that helps with the pants and pantry and that I will be using as I prepare to recertify.

And we're going to talk about that a little bit in this episode.

So that'll be next week also coming up.

I think I mentioned it last week.

In January, we're going to be doing a personal statement challenge that you can go ahead and sign up for the emails if you just go to the paplatform.com personal statement.

It's where you get an email every day for two weeks to help you get a first draft of your essay done complete if you follow the prompts in each email takes maybe 10 to 15, maybe 30 minutes a day.

So that may be something good to look at over Christmas break.

But if you want to wait till January, we'll be doing it all together to try to get a jump start on that application season.

So that's coming up in January.

And what else?

If you already have your essay done and you're like, hey, I am on it and I need help editing this thing.

That is something we do on the PA platform so you can use the code Future PA for a discount on that service.

And if you ever have questions about anything, feel free to shoot me an email.

You can also message me on social media.

I'm on Instagram HEPA platform.

I'm a little slower to respond there sometimes it just depends on the day and if I'm at my computer or not or if I'm able to get on social media.

Life is busy, y' all know that.

So I do my best to respond quickly.

But yeah, feel free to shoot me any questions or post in the pre PA club on Facebook.

Lots of options there.

Alright, so for today's episode, this was actually requested a couple times.

I think somebody asked on social media and somebody may have emailed me also, just saying, you know, I think a good idea of the a good idea for an episode would be to talk about the future of the PA profession, which I agree.

I do want to give a disclaimer that a good bit of this will be speculation and what I think is in store for the PA profession.

You know, a lot of this is guessing or kind of a wait and see type thing.

We don't for sure know, but these are some of the topics that are being talked about in the PA community.

Some of the changes that have been started, I guess, when it comes to legislation and laws and things like that.

So we're going to talk through them.

Feel free to look up these topics.

You can probably find stuff about them on the AAPA website or the NCCPA website or just on Google or in, you know, PA groups.

Again, you're going to get a lot of opinions.

There are a few very loud voices in the space and I don't want those people to scare you or freak you out because in general it is still a great job to be a PA and to be a physician assistant.

Even if there are some changes in the works, this is still a very new profession.

We're kind of babies.

You know, everyone knows what a doctor is.

You know, there have been doctors since the beginning of time in the Bible.

Like there are always doctors, there are always people in the nurse role.

But.

But PAs have only been around since the 70s and so we're still finding our place.

We're still figuring out what our role is, what it looks like, and that has some growing pains with it.

And Some education of others and family, friends, patients, legislators.

So, you know, getting into this profession I still think is a great thing, despite some of the stuff we're going to talk about, even if some things change.

I think if you want to serve patients and take care of patients, hands on looking into the PA profession and considering it is a great idea.

So I am 100% happy with my choice.

I don't regret becoming a PA in any way, shape or form, and I want the same for you if that is what you want to do.

All right, let's jump in.

I actually made some notes for this episode, so hopefully won't ramble too much, but the first thing I want to talk about is academics and what the future of PA academics looks like.

One of those things being online programs.

So a few years back, Yale Online started their first really online program.

And even being an online program, there are still clinical portions.

They do clinical weeks where they all meet up as a class.

And then wherever students are learning, they also have clinic time as well.

I have some podcast episodes and videos with the director, James Van Re, with students who are in the program.

If that's something you want to learn more about, just Google the PA platform, Yale Online, and it'll all pop up.

But since then, when that program started, there was a lot of controversy.

There was a lot of people who said, you can't do this type of learning online.

There was a lot of comparison to NP programs or nurse practitioner programs that are online.

And seeing how a lot of those have popped up very quickly there were debates about whether having too many programs or programs that were mostly online could dilute the quality of PA education.

But after actually talking to students and talking to the program, I was very impressed with what Yale Online was doing.

And again, this was a few years ago.

I think some did better than others.

I think some stuff students found they thrived in that setting.

I think some found that they struggled in that setting.

But a lot of programs have found this kind of hybrid model where they're able to do more online than they were previously.

When I was in PA school, we were required to go to every single lecture they weren't recorded and we just sat there all day.

Now when I lecture at my program, it's recorded so that the students have that information to refer back to and don't have to rely solely on their notes.

And I think that's awesome.

So just technology in general has helped.

There could be more online programs that come up and, you know, for students in rural areas, students who don't have programs near them that have families, and it would be difficult to move.

I think that's a great thing.

I think if they are able to succeed in that setting and the programs make the clinical aspects of priority, that online learning is definitely something we're going to see more and more of.

So that's one thing that's kind of on the horizon.

Another thing that's being talked about is whether PA programs should become doctorate programs.

So in the past, when the PA program was started, it was a bachelor's degree.

So the same way you go to school to get your biology degree, you.

You would just get your physician assistant degree and you would start practicing.

A lot of states have phased that out and actually require PAs to have a master's degree.

And most PA programs you're going to see now, if not all at this point are providing a master's degree.

Some PAs have even had to take bridge programs to bridge their bachelor's to a master's.

So then the conversation has shifted to should PA education be a doctorate degree?

Nurse practitioners get a doctorate degree, Physical therapists get a doctorate degree.

And so those programs, physical therapy tends to be a little bit longer, which then means more debt.

And so that's something that has not been started really, or fully adopted.

Those conversations are really just starting.

Would that mean that PAs are called Dr.

So?

And so would I be Dr. Perry?

No.

Some of my teachers had their doctorates and in clinic in Georgia, at least, it's illegal to be referred to by patients as a doctor whatever, if you are not a physician, because it's confusing to patients.

And so that is something we want to make sure we're clarifying and being clear about.

But that is something that I think will continue to be talked about is whether PA education should be a doctorate.

I don't know what they would add to the education.

Probably some type of thesis or project which we had to do in our master's program.

We had to write a paper and submit it for publication.

And some places will have you do a presentation.

So it may be something a little more involved.

But adding.

Making a doctorate program may add length and it may add cost, which I think some of the great things about the PA profession right now is that the debt to income ratio is great and the time it takes to become a PA is great.

And there's a lot of flexibility once you have that master's degree to Move around specialties, move around areas and we're not really locked in to anything specific.

So something else just to be aware of.

And then there are also some bridge programs of PA to physician, specifically lecom.

Theirs I think has been around the longest.

There may be some others coming up.

But it's a PA to a DO bridge program.

Now really this doesn't cut off much time.

So.

So instead of having a four year med school, you do a three year med school and then you apply to residency and have to complete your full residency.

So does it cut off that much time?

Not really.

But if you're someone who gets in the PA profession and decides you really wanted to be a doctor, it may be a good option.

I think that is where just really reflection and research before, before you get into becoming a PA is so important so that you are really making the decision that you feel is best for you and not having to backtrack or switch paths.

I know personally I could not go back to school for that long at this point.

It would be stressful, it would be hard.

And as a pa, I'm really doing everything that I would want to do.

I don't want to own a practice, I don't want to have to deal with all the administrative stuff.

Some PAs want to do that and there are roles for that.

But for me, I am very happy in my position.

So, yeah, bridge programs could be something that becomes more common.

There may be more popping up where PAs are bridging into becoming physicians.

All right, so let's talk about the profession itself.

And I think what spurred these questions were a lot of people feeling or seeing that PAs were struggling to find jobs.

And so with the pandemic, a lot of PAs and doctors and just healthcare workers in general were let go from their jobs or furloughed and didn't have positions anymore.

It probably took almost a year for us to really get back to where we were pre pandemic.

And I'm very thankful that I had a job throughout that time and that that didn't go away.

But for some PAs, that did change and their jobs went away.

So the concern has become, you know, for PA students and for pre pas.

Should I be pursuing this?

Is there going to be a need?

Is there going to be a job for me?

There are questions about physicians not wanting PAs to be part of the healthcare workforce.

There are questions about whether NPs are going to get more jobs or be more desired.

And those are all valid concerns.

But in my opinion, the PA profession is not going anywhere.

Our role and where we fit in healthcare may change a little bit, but at the end of the day, there is a need for healthcare providers and educated healthcare providers.

And that is, I mean, as of right now, not changing.

So when we look at.

I pulled up a AAMC report that talks about the physician shortage.

So it's a lot.

And with doctors it takes a lot longer to become a doctor.

There are only a limited amount of residency spots.

A lot of people are retiring and retiring earlier.

And so there's a lot of factors that go into that.

And then if we look at certain areas in rural communities and in smaller places, there's more need.

So there is going to be a need for people to take care of patients.

And again, this is to me a situation of a few loud voices when we talk about physicians not wanting PAS involved.

If you look at the very toxic subreddits and things, a lot of what you're seeing on there are medical students who have never worked with PAs.

My husband is a physician and he had never worked with PAS until he got out of residency and now he loves it.

He just really didn't know what we did.

Even though he was married to me, he would ask, you know, why do you know that?

Or what are you studying?

Or you do that.

And so that lack of knowledge and education about the profession is there and somebody has to change that.

So I think PAS will still have a place in healthcare.

There will be places that are more NP friendly and there will be places that are more PA friendly.

I feel like where I'm at right now, we're more PA friendly.

And so that is something that you have to look at when you are making your decision.

If you're trying to decide between PA and np, look at the geography of where you want to work.

If it seems heavily skewed towards NPs, you may want to look into that a little bit more because that may not change anytime soon.

And that is the case in some places.

And so I think when we talk about job availability, it's the same kind of thing.

As a new grad, very few people are going to find their unicorn dream job.

Perfect specialty, perfect salary, perfect supervising physician, or should I say collaborating physician?

Perfect location.

I may have Said that one.

Perfect benefits, perfect schedule.

In a lot of cases, that's not going to happen.

As a new grad, you kind of have to get your feet wet and you kind of have to figure some of that out.

That's what I saw even in my class 10 years ago.

Well, I guess we graduated almost eight years ago.

But people.

So some people wanted to do derm, but they were looking in urban settings, they were looking in big cities that were saturated.

And in a saturated city, there's going to be more PAs.

With experience, you're probably not going to find exactly what you want unless you're willing to work weekends or take all the call or do something that may not be as desirable.

In my suburban setting that I was looking for, I found a great derm job with a great collaborating position.

My starting salary was not what I would have wanted it to be, but I knew there was earning potential there once I got my feet wet and once I showed kind of what I could bring to the practice and was able to kind of really get in there and make myself an asset.

So, you know, you're going to have to give something up.

And so some of the students I've talked to, not all of them, but some of them I feel like, and this from someone's I've talked to, this has come from their programs.

They're like holding out for this one specific job, and that's part of why they're not getting jobs.

The other part of finding a job as a PA is networking, and it is so important.

A lot of the PAs I've talked to are also just applying to listings, which may be posted by recruiters or a hospital and aren't even maybe available or they're looking for somebody specific or they already have somebody lined up.

So networking and making connections is so important in finding positions.

So yeah, and I know sometimes you're limited by location, but then that may mean you have to work in a specialty that you're not as interested in, but you'll learn something and it will make you valuable for when that dream job does open up.

So I think there will be a need for PAs.

I think there will be availability.

I think we have an important role in health care.

So a couple legalistic, I don't know, legal things or laws or just kind of overview for the PA profession.

There are some states that have passed OTP or optimal team practice, which is kind of just AAPA adopted this policy that helps PAs be able to really dictate what their scope is within where they're working so with their physician, with the people who know them, versus something that is just broadly said by the state like PAS can't do this or PAs can do this.

You get to make that decision on a practice level.

Whereas like I'm in derm, it would really suck if they came out and said like PAs cannot do excisions or PAs cannot do cosmetic procedures, which some states actually say right now, Alabama.

So, you know, that is something that helps because then the doctor that I work with every day can be the one to say, I trust Savannah to do this procedure and I know that she knows her knowledge limits and I'm there if she needs me.

So that is kind of where OTP is.

Some states are working towards passing that.

The name change from physician assistant to physician associate.

I don't know that any states have adopted it yet completely.

Not that I've heard.

But this is something that is going to take a long time.

The AAPA prediction was five to 10 years that it would take to adopt the physician associate name.

That's a long time.

I wouldn't really worry about that right now.

Who knows what's going to happen or what that process is going to be like.

And so, you know, it's on the horizon.

Know it's something that is being worked on.

Pay attention to any updates, but not really something that would affect your career path.

Okay.

The other update which is really interesting and personal to me is the NCCPA has announced an alternative to the recertification exam.

So just a little overview.

After you complete PA school, you take your board exam, which is called the Pance P A N C E Physician Assistant National Certifying Exam.

And it's a really long test and it's on everything.

So it's a general test about everything you learned in PA school.

Dermatology is only 4%, aka I am screwed on the recertification.

But now there's a new option.

PAs have to recertify every 10 years.

When I was in school it was actually every seven years and then the year I graduated they changed it to every 10 years.

So I'm actually the first 10 year cycle.

And the options for that were again just a general test about everything that you learned in PA school, which is tough for PAs in specialties for sure.

And really a lot of other professions in medicine don't have that type of recertification.

But NCCPA, which is kind of the certifying board for PAs, came out with a, they did a pilot option of a test a couple years ago where they broke down the pan re, which is the recertification exam into this two year period where each quarter you answered 25 questions and they were kind of more involved.

Open book questions, you had five minutes per question so still timed and then it gave feedback on those questions so that you kind of knew which areas you needed to work on.

So this pilot happened.

A lot of PAs participated.

Over 18,000 PAs were in it.

And then we didn't really know what was going to happen.

It's gonna be a little different because it can be done over three years and you'll have to do eight of the quarters.

And it's the same kind of thing where it will be blocks of time with 25 questions that you can really just do anywhere and you can use resources to help with answering that.

So you're still kind of studying, you're still learning.

I am definitely still going to study and I want to refresh my knowledge.

So I don't plan on just, you know, trying to wing it.

But I think that will take a lot of the stress off, especially, you know, I have a three year old.

Studying time is much more limited and much more difficult, even though I know there are awesome PA students who make it happen.

So we'll see how that goes.

But it's nice that, you know, I feel like the NCCPA is kind of listening to what PAs need and want and I think this is a really great option.

I think you can still take the test regularly, but I think this will be really helpful for, you know, we're busy and for pa, so something to know about.

Be informed and kind of pay attention to what's going on.

I share a lot of NCCPA and AAPA stuff on Instagram as I see it, with any updates on things.

So you can kind of pay attention there if you follow stories or turn on notifications to make sure you don't miss out.

But that's all my updates so far of where I think the future of the profession is going.

I think we're just getting started.

Pas, you know, we're a small, small but strong community and it's a great community to be part of.

It's very supportive and I think, you know, it's a great area of medicine to pursue now.

I think it was when I did it 10 years ago and I think it will be 10 years from now, too.

Who knows how that will I hope my one hope would be that admissions for pre PAs become more standardized because right now they are all over the place.

And I know it makes y' all mad.

It makes me mad.

So that would be my one hope is that they could get together and say, hey, let's standardize this process to make it easier on everyone.

So let's not hold our breath.

But we can keep our fingers crossed.

I hope that was helpful.

Let me know what you think.

Give me your feedback on social media.

I'll post a story just so you can share what you think the future of the PA profession is.

And I'll see you next week with our talk with Dr. Rasch.

Bye.

Thanks for listening.

Head to thepaplatform.com for all the resources you need to become a page.