Jams, jellies, preserves, savory jams, conserves, and chutneys! You know that with the publication of our revolutionary book COLD CANNING we're all about these things.

Let's talk through the differences among them: what's a jam vs. a preserve? What's a chutney and how has it changed in the modern world?

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, the authors of three dozen (and almost "plus one") cookbooks. We're here to share our passion for food and cooking with you. Thanks for being with us.

Want to preorder our book COLD CANNING? Thanks! Please use this link here.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[00:33] Our one-minute cooking tip: use a salt brine to get the smell of cut onions and garlic out of cutting boards.

[02:53] The differences among preserves, marmalades, njams, jellies, savory jams, conserves, and chutneys.

[27:20] What’s making us happy in food this week? Smoked salmon salad and and the kale salad at Mecha Noodle Bar.

Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

2

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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mark: And I'm Mark Scarborough, and

together with Bruce, my husband,

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we have written 36 cookbooks.

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We're publishing our 37th this summer

cold canning, and we're gonna be talking a

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little bit about that, about some various

categories of preserved things that

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sometimes cause, uh, definition problems.

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Let's just say we've got a one

minute cooking tip as per usual,

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and we'll tell you what's making

us happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

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And guess what?

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I'm not doing it this week.

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Mark is.

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mark: I am.

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'cause it's mine.

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And here it is.

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Did you know you can get the smell

of onions and garlic out of wooden

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and sometimes plastic cutting boards

with a little salt water brine.

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This is an old Julia Child trick, and

if you find that your cutting boards

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have a bit of an onion or garlic

smell to them, even after washing them

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with soy water, if you make a brine.

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Of, oh, about, let's say a one

part, , salt to five or six parts,

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water, and then you use that

to wash down the cutting board.

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You can get the smell of

onions and cut garlic out of

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Bruce: it.

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And why wouldn't we just put salt on

the cutting boards and rub that in?

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mark: Well, because it can abbra it and

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you don't wanna nick up the wood on a

wooden cutting board if you don't know.

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By and large wooden cutting

boards have better microbial

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resistance than plastic ones do.

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That's because wood has a

natural microbial deterrent

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in its chemical structure.

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So in general, wooden

cutting boards are preferred.

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Bruce: Yeah.

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And also those plastic ones, when you

make those knife cuts and knife grooves

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in them, moisture can get locked.

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Into those grooves and it never dries out.

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Whereas wood, it gets absorbed deeper

into the wood and it does dry out, which

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will also kill microbes when it's dry.

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mark: Yeah, that's right.

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And you'll notice that neither of us is

talking about glass cutting boards at all.

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Bruce: I don't even understand

the point of glass cutting boards.

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What a great way to both ruin your knife.

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Yes.

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And it's the most awful sound

and feeling in the world to

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cut on a glass cutting board.

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mark: Some of us like the sound of,

of, of, uh, fingernails on chalkboard.

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But, for the rest of us, , that's

apparently a bad sound glass cutting

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Bruce: board.

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That's like an oxymoron.

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mark: It does ruin your knives.

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You really, if you have a glass cutting

board, should think about switching

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to wood, although they are expensive.

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Okay, that's our one minute cooking

tip about salt brine and cutting

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boards with the smell of gut onions

and garlic if you would like.

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To know more about this podcast,

we have a Facebook group cooking

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with Bruce and Mark posting videos.

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There you can see us making various

salsas and, uh, nachos and talking about

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the cookbooks, all that kind of stuff.

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And there's always a place where you can

tell us what's making you happy in food

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this week, each week after the podcast.

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So check out that Facebook

group in otherwise, let's move

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on to the curious difference

between some things that get put.

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In canning jars and the ways these things

are often confused, one with another.

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So let's get started

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Bruce: most of the time you open a

jar of jam or jelly, but there's so

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much more on the shelves in the store

and on the shelves of people who put

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this stuff up like marmalades and

preserves and all sorts of things.

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Conserves, chutneys, so.

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What are the differences

between these things?

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mark: I just wanna say that I think a

lot of people use the terms jams and

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jellies to mean a lot of these things.

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And in fact, those are actually very

specific items, jams and jellies.

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So we wanna talk about that.

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And let's start right at the

top with the biggest category.

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Well, I guess no, the biggest

fruit or vegetable category,

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which is preserves and marmalades.

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Bruce: Yeah, and I think what makes

them the biggest fruit is that these

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are the things made with the biggest.

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Pieces of fruit, right?

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When you have a marmalade, which is

usually a citrus based, , preserve,

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? Usually orange I think was the

traditional, a bitter orange.

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Although you can get sweet orange

marmalade, I think it's kind of

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disgusting, but bitter orange

marmalade is the perfect marmalade.

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It's either has.

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Big chunks of orange where

it has just pieces of orange

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mark: rind.

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One type of reason I found, I

think we were at Dean in DeLuca

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in the city in New York City.

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We were somewhere we found an orange

marmalade that was literally mandolin

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or really thin slices of orange.

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A small orange just stacked up

in a jar with, yeah, with all of

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the jellified orange juice around

the, but it was really just a jar

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of stacks of thin slices of orange.

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Oh, it was so

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Bruce: good because they'd been.

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Poached and cooked in this sugar syrup

and they were like spoon tenders.

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You could dig through them, right?

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And then they were put in this

jar so carefully and beautifully

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with that syrup poured over them.

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I, I aspire to be able to do that,

but I can guarantee you I don't

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do it very often 'cause first of

all, you have to get oranges that

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are exactly the size of your jars.

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Yeah.

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That's probably why they were

charging like $35 a jar for that

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particular orange marble leg.

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How much it

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mark: was.

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But it was expensive.

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Bruce: Yeah.

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And preserves.

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Are non citrus based

whole fruit preserves.

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Sweet.

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They're they're sweet.

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They're very sweet.

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So like blackberry preserves will have

whole chunks of blackberry in it, right?

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And strawberry preserves might have

entire strawberries in that jar

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inside that syrupy jelly-like mixture.

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mark: And this is why when you go to

the store, if you look for things to

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put on toast or peanut butter and jelly

sandwiches or whatever, preserves are

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often the most expensive because of

course the manufacturer must preserve

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in some sense the whole fruit.

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So the strawberry preserves

have strawberries in them.

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Oh, when I was a kid, there was this uh,

uh, strawberry preserve manufacturer.

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I think it was in Texas, in Oklahoma.

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I grew up in Texas and I think

it was around there and it

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was called Best of the Crop.

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I'm not making this up, and it would come.

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Out the strawberry preserves once a year

and it was very limited production, and my

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mother would wait until best of the crop.

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Strawberry preserves appeared on the

shelves because it was whole strawberries

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in a ified syrup, and she would buy

them and they would this huge splurge.

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Now Bruce makes a similar

thing and in fact.

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In our upcoming book called Canning,

there is something with this French

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preserves in which you, uh, preserve the

whole strawberries inside the preserves.

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I get this

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Bruce: technique, so I take the

strawberries and I layer them in a

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big bowl with sugar overnight, so now

the strawberries are condensed down,

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but they're still whole, they've

given off so much of their liquid.

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And you bring that liquid

to a boil and you cook it.

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Then you put the whole

strawberries in for a few minutes.

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Pull them out.

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'cause now they've released even more.

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Then let the syrup cook down again.

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You put the whole berries in again.

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It's just this whole process where

you end up with these beautiful

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jewels of candied strawberry inside.

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Side this syrup, it's very much

like that sliced orange marmalade.

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Only it's strawberries.

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Mm-hmm.

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And the inspiration for that mm-hmm.

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Came from something made by

a British company tip tree.

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And tip tree makes a strawberry preserve

that they have made forever called.\

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Little Scarlet and Little Scarlet are

these tiny, almost wild strawberries,

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mark: right?

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They're almost French deis

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Bruce: and they preserve them whole,

just like this French technique.

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And it's even back in the eighties.

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So we're talking 40 some odd years ago.

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It was $10 a jar, and my grandmother

was, that was her big splurge.

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She would buy tip trees a little

scarlet, and that was her thing,

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but it was also my grandmother's.

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So she would eat like one

strawberry out of it a week.

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mark: Yeah.

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No, no, no.

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But we went to, uh, Bruce's cousins in

Washington to sea a few weeks ago and

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visited them for the weekend, and we

brought them homemade preserves as a house

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gift, and we had breakfast with them.

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The next morning after we'd seen

them, of course, we got up and

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had breakfast and they put out our

preserves, and I think they were

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dumbfounded that Bruce and I essentially

ate half a bottle of one of them.

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Bruce: I don't understand why

people don't know how much

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preserves you're supposed to put.

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I don't care whether it's

jam, jelly or preserve.

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Shell used should be shellac.

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They, they put like the thinnest,

thinnest coating on there.

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Right?

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We have very close friends, uh, live

near us who I give my jams to all the

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time, and they'll have a jar of it

that lasts them like three months.

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And I'm like.

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How did that last you?

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Three months.

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Okay.

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Since you said that it

lasts me, me, three minutes.

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All

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mark: right.

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Since you said that, we're gonna

move on to the next category

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you said I give my jams to.

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So we're gonna move on to jams because

this is probably the most, uh, popular

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or the largest category of these,

um, jams as opposed to preservers.

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In marmalades jams are made from fruit.

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Pulp.

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Mm-hmm.

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So it's fruit that has been mushed up in

some way, or cooked up in some way so that

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it has broken down, but it is still pulpy.

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Bruce: And you know, the best way to do

that on your own is put gloves on and

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get your hands in that bowl of berries.

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Yes.

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It's,

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mark: it's a, we talk about this endlessly

in cold canning is put on kitchen and

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gloves and go at it with your hands.

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Bruce: Your hands are the best

tools you have in the kitchen.

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You should be using them for

tossing salads, for mixing

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dressings , into, coleslaw.

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So long

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mark: as you put on kitchen gloves

or scrupulously, clean your hands.

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Bruce: I have even put on gloves to make.

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Chicken salad, tuna salad.

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It's like get your hands in your food.

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It is fun.

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It feels good, and you'll

have a better distribution.

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And in terms of jams, you'll

have a beautifully even mashup

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and you can control it so well.

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So you can have pieces of

fruit, but not total mush.

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So if

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mark: you're making this at home,

this is basically how it goes.

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If you're making blackberry

preserves, you're gonna.

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Put the blackberries into the

sugar syrup fairly late in the

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process so that they stay whole.

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If you're making blackberry jam, you're

generally gonna put them in very early

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in the process, so they cook in the

sugar syrup, and you're also gonna

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take, I don't know, a wooden spoon or a

potato mash or something and mash them

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up during the cooking so that they're.

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Pulpy, but inside of

all of that sugar syrup,

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Bruce: potato masher is the next

best tool you have after your hands.

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Plus, I wouldn't suggest putting your

hands into a pot of boiling jam No, no.

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To continue to mash up that fruit.

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No.

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Because that's not a smart idea.

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mark: No.

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And this is all in contrast to jellies.

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So if preserves and Marleys are

whole fruit and jams are made

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from fruit pulp, then jellies.

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Are made from fruit juice.

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Mm-hmm.

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This is the big difference.

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There's no pulp in it.

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Just think about grape jelly.

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It's smooth or strawberry jelly or

I don't know what else is there?

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A blackberry jelly.

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It's smooth

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Bruce: and translucent.

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Yes.

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When you shine a light through it, you

should be able to light up that jar.

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It should look right.

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Beautiful.

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It should glow.

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Some of them are clearer

than others, like.

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Apple jelly you can actually see through.

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Right, of course.

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And I do a strawberry jelly that

you could see through, but darker

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things like Mark said, concord,

grape jelly in particular, you can't

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see through 'cause it's dark purple.

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But uh, green grape jelly

you can see through Oh,

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mark: which we have a

recipe for in the book.

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Gold canning for green grape jelly.

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But I should say that too, uh, while we're

talking about this, that when getting

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light through even Concord grape jelly,

we were able to get some light through

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it in the photo shoot for the book.

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But you can't get.

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Any light through Concord grape jam No.

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Or any light through strawberry preserves.

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Well, part

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Bruce: of why we got light through it is

the extraordinary talent of Eric Medsker,

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a photographer based in Brooklyn, , whose

number one talent in life is light.

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Eric can create light that looks

magical no matter what he's doing.

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He can, he photographed all the

jams and jellies and chutneys that

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are in this book and they glow

and they glisten and they look

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mark: gorgeous.

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Mostly shoots, cocktails.

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You can look him up on Instagram, Medsker,

M-E-D-S-K-E-R, Eric Medsker, and you can

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see his cocktail shoots and, uh, his crazy

shoots for our death and co and other

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big, uh, hip bars and all this stuff.

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And he gets amazing light

inside of cocktails, so, okay.

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Just a review preserves our whole

fruit jams or fruit pulp jellies, our

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fruit juice, which then leads us to an

oxymoron category, which is savory jam.

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Um, this is a whole different category

in itself, and this is also a bit

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of a misnomer because given our

definitions of what a preserve is and

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what jams are, and what jellies are.

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This should actually be

called a savory preserve.

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It

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Bruce: should be, but

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mark: no one calls it that.

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Everyone calls it savory jam.

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And this is part of the difficulty

and the definitions here,

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Bruce: and the word

savory is confusing too.

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It would make you think there's no

sugar, but there's a lot of sugar, of

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course, because you're making a jam.

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So it is a strange category, a savory jam.

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So let's imagine I have a sweet

but not too sweet jam and the.

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Basic ingredient instead of

raspberries or strawberries is onions.

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Mm-hmm.

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Or it's bacon.

295

Mm-hmm.

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Or it's kimchi.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yes.

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I created a kimchi jam for this new book.

300

So a savory jam is, not a chutney because

there's no spices and vinegars in it.

301

We'll get to chutneys in a minute.

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It is strictly a savory jam.

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You

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mark: might know this.

305

There was a very famous product

that came out, oh my gosh.

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What?

307

20?

308

30 years ago, which is the Stonewall

Kitchen's Savory Bacon Jam.

309

Mm-hmm.

310

Bacon, onion Jam or Bacon Jam.

311

It was

312

Bruce: their bacon, onion jam.

313

It was one of their first products ever.

314

It won them an award

at the Fancy Food Show.

315

Yep.

316

About 25 years ago.

317

It set

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mark: their career off it

set those guys' career off in

319

Bruce: Stone Kitchens.

320

What?

321

Put it's what?

322

Put them on the map and from there they

went on to do lots of other things.

323

But yes, there.

324

Bacon.

325

Onion Jam was the first nationally

distributed product that was like that.

326

Yeah.

327

Right.

328

And it was earth shattering.

329

You could put it on a burger.

330

You can have it with roast chicken.

331

You could mix it into chicken salad.

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I probably wouldn't put it on an English

muffin to have with a latte in the

333

mark: morning.

334

No, no, no.

335

That's the whole point is

savory jams don't go on toast.

336

Bruce: Well, what if

you're having it with eggs?

337

Butter.

338

And then you have bacon

339

mark: and No, I still

think that's gross for me.

340

That's gross.

341

You could try it.

342

But to me these are things

for roasts, they're things to

343

put on burgers, on hot dogs.

344

They're, the savory jam is much

closer to a, a true condiment.

345

Mm.

346

Even though it's sweet.

347

It has sugar in it, but

348

Bruce: ketchup is like by the number one

condiment in the world and that is sweet.

349

There's a lot of sugar in it.

350

It so it makes sense.

351

I mean, I could see, um, a bacon,

onion jam, even on a hot dog.

352

Of course, I could see it on a

pastrami sandwich of course, because

353

there's something about that sweet.

354

Then with the smokey and, oh, I

355

mark: don't think you're gonna get

bacon onion jam in your kosher deli on a

356

pastrami sandwich, but okay, go on dude.

357

You can.

358

Pastrami is

359

Bruce: not.

360

Only a kosher meat.

361

mark: Oh, okay.

362

Um, uh, your own relatives are gonna

rise up and slap you right now, though.

363

Bruce: My relatives whose idea of

kosher was a separate pan for the bacon.

364

Yes.

365

They're gonna rise up and

slap me for putting bacon

366

jam on the pastrami sandwich.

367

mark: Okay, so a savory gem is a

bit, as we say, of an oxymoron.

368

It's not really a gem, it's a preserve

because the onions are pretty whole,

369

the shallots are pretty whole,

they're cut up mm-hmm of course

370

into small bits, but they're, they

don't dissolve into a mush in it.

371

You

372

Bruce: know what they are.

373

mark: The bacon is, you know, in tiny

little bits, but it's still in there.

374

Bruce: And that's the funny thing, bacon.

375

You think of bacon in the

refrigerator as getting congealed,

376

and the fact gets gross and it.

377

Doesn't in this partly is you

cook the bacon so long that

378

there is no fat left, right?

379

You render out every bit of fat

from that meat, so it is only

380

charred little chunks of bacon meat.

381

And

382

mark: Bruce mentioned kimchi

cham, which is was spectacular.

383

It was a revelation to me to

have this, uh, sort of sweet

384

product made with whole kimchi.

385

So it's really spicy.

386

But we should also say that there are

carrot jams, there are bell pepper jams.

387

These are.

388

All part of this savory jam category.

389

It doesn't have to include bacon.

390

Mm-hmm.

391

In fact, you can just have shallot

jam, which is part of this, uh,

392

weird category of savory jams, which

really, again, should be savory

393

preserves, but nobody says that.

394

So people say savory jams.

395

Okay, so now we're gonna move

on to the fifth in our list.

396

So we've come through preserves and Marlon

lights, and then we had jams, and then we

397

had jellies, and then we had savory jams.

398

And now we're moving

on to a very esoteric.

399

Uh, category, which is conserves

400

Bruce: and conserves are interesting

because the word conserve basically can

401

almost encompass this entire category

of what we're talking about, man.

402

But in olden, in olden times, and

if you look in old cookbooks and old

403

things, a conserve was just a preserved.

404

Thing.

405

mark: Yes.

406

But in UK parlance and in US

parlance, a conserve has been

407

restricted in its definition.

408

So

409

Bruce: what is that definition?

410

Well,

411

mark: one thing is a conserve

is generally, not always, but

412

generally is a very general rule.

413

It's less sweet than anything

we've currently been talking about.

414

Less sweet than preserved jams,

jellies, or savory jams in any way.

415

Bruce: Less sweet is good.

416

mark: Yep.

417

And it's also often made with other.

418

Aromatics.

419

Sometimes there are tomatoes in the mix

and usually there are nuts and toes.

420

So think about, let's say a conserve with

tomatoes, chilies, ginger, and almonds.

421

Mm-hmm.

422

And it's.

423

Sweet.

424

Without a doubt, it's still in this

sweetish category, but it's moving away

425

from anything you would put on toast.

426

So it's

427

Bruce: almost like a semi-sweet

tomato jam with nuts and onions in it.

428

Yes, that's right.

429

Which is really an interesting

condiment and it's a great thing

430

to serve with roasted vegetables.

431

Yes, it's a great thing to

put on a roast beef sandwich.

432

mark: Yes.

433

Bruce: While I might.

434

Put a savory jam on a burger, I would

for sure put a conserve on a burger.

435

Right.

436

Because it's less sweet.

437

mark: Right.

438

In recipe testing, we made

a tomato ancho conserve.

439

Mm-hmm.

440

And it's got ancho chilies, and tomatoes.

441

And onions, and I think it has a bunch

of, uh, southwestern spices in it.

442

Maybe even I, I put pine nuts in that one.

443

I maybe, and maybe even.

444

Smoked paprika goes in it.

445

Mm.

446

So that it gets this very savory taste,

although it is sweet and so it's perfect.

447

A conserve for all kinds of

meat applications, as they

448

say in the food business.

449

And ESP Bruce has roasted vegetables.

450

Now, I will say that in our book, we

do have a blackberry conserve, and

451

it's made with ginger and blackberries

and all kinds of aromatics and

452

Bruce: walnuts

453

mark: and walnuts, and I do

like it on toast, but I have

454

to confess to you that I.

455

Ask for that, uh, this

Passover on the chopped liver.

456

So there go, and we are recording

457

Bruce: this the week before Passover.

458

So the livers have been ordered and the

blackberries are on the shopping list.

459

mark: And I think you're going to hear

this long after Passover, but okay.

460

It's probably

461

Bruce: going to be what's

making you happy in food.

462

Next week when we record the next

batch of these was that blackberry

463

conserve and my chopped chicken livers.

464

Right?

465

mark: So you, I I do like that

blackberry conserv because it's.

466

Blackberries on toast.

467

It's less sweet than a traditional,

uh, preserve or jam, but it's also

468

really great on chopped liver.

469

It would be great on pate, it

would be great with cheese.

470

Conserves are by and large good with

cheese, especially soft runny cheeses.

471

Even Brie, they're really great

as a topper to those things.

472

You probably know some of

these, uh, conserves from like

473

what's often called ginger jam.

474

Just think if you kind of.

475

Bumped up the spice range of ginger jam

and maybe even added some nuts to it.

476

Well, yeah, I, you would get

it very close to a conserve.

477

I

478

Bruce: think nuts are really a key.

479

And also when I cook a conserve, I tend

to cook them until they're a little

480

firmer than jams and savory jams,

which are a little more spreadable.

481

Conserves are a little more dollop.

482

I would think they're, I would think

of a conserve almost as the texture

483

of a, uh, a chunky cranberry sauce.

484

mark: Okay.

485

So.

486

Again, go back.

487

Preserves are the whole fruit jams are the

fruit pulp jellies are the fruit juice.

488

Savory jams is an oxymoron.

489

The conserves are less sweet

and include a lot of other

490

aromatics and most often nuts.

491

And now we come to the last

category, which is the most

492

difficult of these sweet.

493

Uh, can preserved sweet canned things,

which is a chutney, and there's

494

a reason why this is difficult.

495

Bruce: Well, it is probably my most

favorite category of all of these.

496

Okay.

497

And part of it is as a chef

making a chutney is much more

498

flexible and forgiving than

making any of the above category.

499

And part of that is most chutneys

are not going to use pectin.

500

So I don't have to worry about

my ratios as clearly, right.

501

I'm not gonna have to say,

well, how much sugar versus how

502

much pectin to how much fruit?

503

It's much more forgiving.

504

There's always a vinegar content, so

there's a liquid added, the kind of sugar.

505

I think that's key.

506

Let's just stop

507

mark: right there.

508

I think chutney the key

is that it has a vinegar.

509

Mm-hmm.

510

Or sour component.

511

It does of some sort in

most, but not all chutneys.

512

Bruce: Right.

513

And the kind of chutney that you

would get in a standard American

514

East Indian restaurant, like a

mango chutney, mango chutney.

515

It's easy to make because you dump

everything in the pot at once.

516

The sugar, the vinegar, the fruit,

the ginger, the garlic, all the.

517

Asian spices that go in there and

you just cook it, and you cook it and

518

cook it and cook it until it boils

down and thickens and becomes the

519

texture that you want it to become.

520

And that gives you the flexibility

and the freedom to add other things.

521

Do you want to add raisins?

522

Do you want to add chopped apples?

523

Do you wanna add celery?

524

It is so flexible.

525

That's why I like making them.

526

mark: Now, here's why this is problematic,

what we now think of as chutneys, which

527

are vinegary sweet, savory condiment jam.

528

Like preserve, like substances,

529

Bruce: like mango chutney,

like major gras chutney.

530

mark: Yeah.

531

And like major grays, chutney are actually

a product of the Raj of the English.

532

Overrun of India.

533

And here's the deal.

534

When the English overran India, remember

from your history books in the East

535

Indian Trading Company and all that

bit, and the Raj, the English control of

536

India, many traditional Indian foods were

then CD through English cooking styles.

537

And what happened here is that,

um, traditional chutneys, and

538

we'll get to those in a minute,

traditional chutneys got sied through.

539

English jam making techniques

and got crossed up into what most

540

of us now think of as a chutney.

541

In fact, that sort of jam like

chutney is in fact the common

542

chutney in India at this point.

543

So it's a kind of backward, reverse,

cross-cultural problem that goes on here.

544

The original chutney is just to say.

545

Were much drier.

546

Yeah, and much fresher.

547

They were not necessarily cooked?

548

Bruce: Not always, no.

549

No.

550

They often were just things like cilantro

and spices pureed up or chopped up

551

with chilies in a mortar and pestle.

552

Correct.

553

And then what?

554

Usually happens is, and they call it

the tempering, \, but the spices that

555

are used are fried and oil, and that

spicy fried oil is imported on top.

556

And that is the tempering

moment of those cut

557

mark: coconut in there too, right?

558

There

559

Bruce: can be, there's often there are.

560

There are.

561

Often, sometimes just coconut

chutneys, which use fresh grated

562

coconut and maybe chopped up cashews.

563

And then these tempered spices.

564

And that was what constituted a chutney.

565

So it's like their colonizers came

in, created something different out

566

of what they were calling a chutney.

567

Right?

568

And then the indigenous people liked it.

569

Yes, exactly.

570

And it stuck and it went worldwide.

571

mark: Exactly.

572

I I, I mean, I think that this is the

same problem with, uh, n not to step

573

on a landmine here, but this is the

same problem with Navajo fry bread.

574

It's not necessarily intrinsic to the

culture, but over centuries it has become

575

intrinsic to the culture because it's

actually taking this dough that probably

576

was baked and then frying it now in

oil, and now of course we think of it.

577

As part of indigenous culture, and

even indigenous people think of it

578

as part of their culture, but it's a

weird cultural mix that has happened.

579

And I should tell you just before we,

uh, move on, on chutney, I should just

580

say that what we're telling you is a bit

controversial in food historian parlance.

581

Not all food historians agree that

what happened is that these fresh and

582

relatively dry, or as Bruce suggests.

583

Fried oily chutneys got passed

through English techniques to

584

create what we now think of as major

grays or mango chutney, et cetera.

585

Um, in fact, some people will

say, no, that's not true.

586

And actually other things

happen to create these.

587

But the bulk of food historians

hold to this story about how what

588

we now called chutney came about.

589

So chutney, people think of it

as mango, but it's not right.

590

Bruce: Chutney is anything you can

make a plump chutney is anything.

591

It could be made from grass clippings.

592

Well, it would be interesting

to try a grass chutney.

593

Oh, gross.

594

Look, mango chutney.

595

The base fruit is mango.

596

Then you add garlic and ginger and

celery and carrots and chopped apples.

597

But you could make a similar chutney

where your base fruit is plums.

598

Oh yeah.

599

About that.

600

That's what we have in the house

601

mark: right now is plumb.

602

Chutney.

603

Bruce: I make a plumb chutney every year

from Santa Rosa plums that my sister sends

604

me from her backyard trees in California.

605

Yep.

606

And I chop up the plums and I add

vinegar and sugar and brown sugar and

607

celery and garlic and onions and ginger,

and I add mustard seeds and cloves

608

and it cooks down into this sweet and

sour and spicy and complex condiment

609

that I put in everything, and my

favorite way to use it is chicken salad.

610

I buy a rotisserie chicken

at the supermarket.

611

I take all the meat and off.

612

I throw the bones and skin away.

613

I get my hands in there and I

smush up that meat and I add in

614

mayonnaise and more chopped celery.

615

And a big dollop of this plumb,

chutney and a L curri powder.

616

And nuts.

617

I had lots of chopped walnuts too.

618

mark: Yeah.

619

Well, I think that it is really

interesting to think about chutneys

620

as beyond man coke, because most

of us think of major grays, and I

621

will confess that I'm not a fan of

major gray's chutney, so I didn't

622

know much about chutney until I met.

623

Bruce and Bruce was a kind of

chutney connoisseur already

624

when I met him 28 years ago.

625

So I learned a lot more, and I learned

that there was a world beyond, beyond

626

major gras that includes all kinds of

crazy things like peach chutneys and

627

apple chutney and tomato chutneys, all

kinds of various fruit based chutney

628

that move off into savory and even

extraordinarily spicy renditions.

629

Mm-hmm.

630

To create chutney.

631

So there's our rundown.

632

Preserves of marmalades jams, jellies,

savory jams, conserves and chutneys.

633

Those are various sweet things that

you can preserve and put in jars.

634

Our book called Canning, which is

out this summer, has many recipes

635

for these, but it's not all the book.

636

In fact, these only make up about a third.

637

Of this giant tome, cold, canning

more on what's ahead for that later.

638

But we wanted to just nail down

the difference between these.

639

Before we move to the last segment of this

podcast, lemme say that it would be great

640

if you could rate or like this podcast and

even greater if you could write a review.

641

Remember, this is an ad free podcast.

642

Think about that.

643

How many podcasts do you

listen to that have no ads?

644

This is an ad free podcast.

645

We wanna keep it that way, and one of

the ways you can help us is by either

646

rating it, can I ask for five stars?

647

Or.

648

Even better dropping a review, which

keeps it fresh in the algorithms.

649

Thanks for doing that.

650

Okay, onto what's making

us happy in food this week.

651

Bruce: Hot smoked salmon salad, or

as my family used to call it, baked

652

salmon salad, baked salmon salad.

653

So our local supermarket here in New

England has started carrying this smoked

654

salmon called honey smoked salmon, that's

like the brand name, and it was on sale.

655

So I bought a couple packages

in Each package is an.

656

Eight ounce piece of hot smoked salmon.

657

And it is so smoky that when I opened

the package, it smelled like jerky.

658

I mean, that's how smoky it is.

659

Mm.

660

And I decided yesterday that a piece was

sitting in the refrigerator too long, ea.

661

So I opened the package.

662

I.

663

Took the skin off, I threw it

in the food processor with more

664

mayonnaise than you can imagine.

665

And I word it up.

666

I put in about a tablespoon of sweet

pickle relish and it was homemade

667

hot smoked salmon salad, and Mark

devoured the entire container,

668

leaving me only a spoonful to taste.

669

But it is what made me happy.

670

This

671

mark: week I came home from teaching

Flannery O'Connor for two hours.

672

I ended up eating smoked

Ella, which was kind of great.

673

Kind of a nice antidote to FLA O'Connor.

674

Um,

675

Bruce: I bet she never

had smoked salmon salad.

676

I bet she

677

mark: didn't either.

678

Uh, so, so it goes, uh, I guess what's

making me happy in food this week is

679

something from a chain of restaurants

that has actually blown across the

680

country and they're growing exponentially,

and that's MEChA Noodle Bars.

681

So shout out to MEChA,

M-E-C-H-A, MEChA at Noodle Bar.

682

They may be in a city where you live, and

I have to say their kale salad is, mm-hmm.

683

Just spectacular.

684

It's, it's made with a miso vinegarette.

685

It has golden uh, raisins in it.

686

It Bruce and I go to MEChA Noodle Bar

just to order the Kale Caesars so well.

687

I've never had

688

Bruce: a salad like that.

689

There go.

690

'cause it is half fresh kale

and half deep fried kale.

691

Yeah.

692

So you have these super, super,

super crunchy bits and these

693

super fresh but still crunchy

bits and the beautiful dressing.

694

They always

695

mark: top it with the avocados.

696

They stop.

697

Mm-hmm.

698

It's

699

Bruce: worth the drive for us.

700

To go where they are, which is

about an hour and 20 minutes away.

701

mark: So we love MEChA Noodle Bars.

702

Kale, salad.

703

Okay, that's the podcast for this week.

704

Thanks for joining us, and thanks

for being a part of this journey.

705

We appreciate your time in

this vast podcast landscape.

706

Thanks for being with us.

707

A long to talk about food and cooking

708

Bruce: and while TikTok is still

available, and let's hope while you're

709

listening to this, it is still available.

710

Please.

711

Go to TikTok, even if you never have

before, download the app because there you

712

will find our channel cooking with Bruce

and Mark and we post some fabulous videos,

713

and also go to, go to Instagram where

you'll see cooking with Bruce and Mark

714

as well there with lots of great videos

and photos of our life and food and you

715

get to share more of what's going on

with us at cooking with Bruce and Mark.