Rick Prashaw, father of one, step-father of 3, author of, "Soar Adam Soar" discusses his journey as the father of a girl at birth who transitioned to a boy at 18, and who would die at 22 --- leaving a rich and powerful legacy.

Takeaways:

• Understanding the impact of hormonal changes is crucial for supporting children through their transitions.
• Social media can play a significant role in shaping communication about consent and relationships among youth.
• Open dialogue between parents and children fosters independence and discipline in navigating life's challenges.
• Bullying remains a pervasive issue; we must actively promote empathy and kindness in our communities.
• Engaging with emotional health is just as important as addressing physical health during adolescence.
• Navigating the complexities of identity requires a foundation of love and acceptance from parents.

Welcome to Where Parents Talk tv. My name is Leanne Castellino. Our guest today is Rick Prashaw. He is the author of a book called Soar Adam Soar.

He's also a dad of one, a former priest, as well as somebody who's worked in politics. He's had a very comprehensive and interesting career and we're delighted to welcome him today. Hello, Rick.

Hi, Leanne. It's nice to see you.

So it's been over a year since it's been out there. What has that book and its publication taught you?

Oh, my. Well, last year I cobbled together a 35 city book tour. Ontario, Quebec, down east and Vermont and California. And it was just a wonderful time.

A proud father telling his son's story, but also learning, still learning about so many worlds.

And so that had to be all shut down. And I had headed off to different worlds of podcast with the heart recipient, which is interesting.

We got a Canada Arts Council grant and then we just got the great news of an audiobook coming on, Soar Adam Soar.

And the delightful news that John had to go win it, but he is a professional actor now, so he went and auditioned and passed all their hoops and he's gonna. It's just amazing. He's going to be the voice for Adam and for me to tell the story of his heart recipient's donor.

So there's so much to unpack there. Rick, let's try to tackle this one part of the story at a time.

First of all, for viewers and listeners who may not know who Adam Prashaw was, how would you describe him and summarize him?

We say Prashaw. The Americans say the other pronunciation. So that's fine. I usually get 50, 50 of the two, but you gotta, you might have to stop me.

I get a little carried away here. 70,000 words are wrote on the boy, you know, so I know people go to the headlines. That's, that's typical human.

So the organ donor Party has a gender journey story that he. That I tell in the book.

He was, he was for the older people, if you remember To Kill a Mockingbird, my boy looked just like Scout and sort of a tomboy girl. And epilepsy jumped into our life like a lot of parents have to deal with, with sick kids and various illnesses.

So it wasn't bad to start five years old. Minor ones started. The old people called them the petit mal, you know, the lower seizures.

So you just lived with it with meds, and at about 10 years of age, they just disappeared. And it was wonderful.

And for seven years we had this magical time where the kid was a hockey goalie and dad was useless in the stands trying to save all the pucks. And it was hilarious. And I was more pacing and everything. I had three steps children. You mentioned my priesthood and my decision to marry.

It was for love. And I instantly had a family. But as I say in the book, you know, I baptized like thousands of babies, but I knew nothing about being a dad.

So it was just, fasten your seatbelt and you know, go for the ride.

And this kid past the headlines, he's the kid you see at the supper table, the school halls, the malls, Cap on backward Batman, Crazy Love, Carrie Price and the hives tattoos too many for dad. We'd have this great budget discussion. We thought we were on the same page.

The next day I'm on Facebook and I'm his friend on Facebook, and that was a story. And there's another tattoo. So, you know, so, yeah, so terrific humor that I didn't always appreciate.

Mischievous and runs around some of the rules, but a whole lot of normal. And one of the things that I'm so happy about the book is that since Adam's death, my faith has really helped me a great deal.

But also the fact Adam has just continued messaging and speaking to me and I just have to say, just the way it is. We text it like fiendishly. He just sends this message down the top of my head and I get these messages that I just know are him.

And so I was going to just paraphrase a lot of Facebook posts. And I got this message with my dad, use my words, let me speak. And so on the margins, all through the book are his crazy Facebook posts.

Some of them have something to do with the story and some of them have nothing to do with the story. They're just about his abs, about being a goalie craziness, his latest tattoo. Just the fun.

And people really get to know Adam in reading those Posts I'd have this battle with an editor that I'm sure you could appreciate. Where they wanted less post because they said some of them don't really add anything. They're just words. I said, yes, just teenage words.

And I said, a lot of people are going to recognize them and love them.

And in fact, a lot of readers would ask me, you know, boy, when we turned a page of the book and there wasn't another post, we were really disappointed. So I wanted to send to my editor that particular comment. See, they wanted more post.

Well, and I have to tell you, so the book is Soar, Adam Soar. And this is my copy, which I read with great interest last year shortly after it came out.

And, you know, I have to tell you, Rick, what really struck me was the depth of this journey that you have been on. And it's been there were so many turns and twists and things that you never could have predicted that just kind of landed on your lap as a parent.

And then what struck me was how much this son of yours, Adam, who was actually born Rebecca, Adam, continually taught you.

Yes.

So let's go back to Rebecca Adams birth. You know, and in terms of the gender transition story, she transitioned at the age of 18.

What would you say to parents who are facing this currently, this whole idea of transitioning in their children?

Right. Well, fasten your seat belt and just go along for the ride and listen and learn and love is what I say in the preface.

As I said I was his Facebook friend. Sometimes I realized I didn't have to call 911 every time with his insanity in his post that I just, you know, put a like, click a like.

And I continue to smile and to know that I didn't have to understand everything. I didn't have to agree with everything. You know, this is a presidential election year. I know a lot of Canadians are following it.

I'm on these Facebook posts where, you know, parents and kids are no longer talking to each other over their choice of a for or against our their president. And I was just shaking my head.

I usually bite my tongue and don't jump into too many of these posts, but I finally said, listen, I can guarantee you one thing, that president is not gonna be at your deathbed, but if you want your kids to be at your deathbed, that you keep the doors open and keep talking. And that's what I did.

So sometimes I'd be on the tour and people would listen to me and say, oh, my God, you're just like the biggest, best parent Ever.

And I said, you obviously have not read my book because, you know, it's unconditional love with about 10,000 screams, you know, and not understanding and questioning. And my kid was impulsive. So I really wanted to be sure that this wasn't just Monday's like flavor. I wasn't against it.

It was something I was open to my father and his lessons in life. And I always was attracted to, to diversity and to the rainbow and to difference.

That attracted me as a journalist, the interest in why people are different. So it wasn't something that I had this dogma against or beliefs against. It was just fears, fears as a parent, because is this really it?

So very quickly you get this all in the book. But I said 41, I know nothing. And my wife, who's had three pregnancies, tells me early in the pregnancy, this is a boy. I go, oh, I don't understand.

Oh, I'm carrying it exactly like David, not at all like Lindsay and Lauren. So it's a boy. So 17 minutes of labor, which was another harbinger of the kid in the fast lane. The intern.

We couldn't catch the doctor in time says, you have a beautiful baby girl. And Suzanne just bolted up and looked for Adam. Where had Adam? We had started calling this kid Adam in the womb. So we had to go with Rebecca.

Adam at 2 years old. The typical parent question, you know, how many kids? How many kids you have? Suzanne would say, I have four, this is two.

And I think this is so interesting. At two years of age I have for I have two girls, a boy and a wannabe. People would say, a what? A wannabe. I have a girl who wants to be a boy.

So that was it too. So on my book tour there's two 85 year old women that stand out. That came up to me very late after a book tour.

It was like they had rehearsed their stories, but they were in different towns and they both told me the same story, that at five years of age they were put in the line, boy, girl, line. And they both said to themselves, I'm in the wrong line. I'm supposed to be over there. So whatever we know or don't know about this, it's interesting.

I've learned so much by listening and that's hard.

It's so true. It's so true. So you're, you're gifted with this miraculous baby girl. You name her Rebecca Adam. Adam's mother believes it's a boy.

At what age did the question about transitioning enter your family Conversation. And how did you go about being so accepting of it?

Right? So accepting with the screams and with the questions and the fears just to put that reality check on it. Well, we love this Rebecca.

Adam just to the moon and back three times. And I never said, you know, only if you stay a girl. I never said that. Only if you know, you know, you a baby or just listen to me.

I just said I love you to the moon three times. I'm back. So. So in early teens had the boys pictures up from all the magazines. It was all pretty normal, you know.

And then suddenly, you know, has a talk with mom where she talks about her attraction to girls.

And so I don't even know if she used the word lesbian, but she at least said, you know, I seem to like people the same sex, but good old mom and mom's intuition far better than dad's. Mom just felt that there was more to this, you know. But she just didn't say anything. She wasn't pushing anything.

She just was waiting to see what would happen. So some people saw 18 was that we waited for a legal aid. No, that's just how this story unfolded. It was just 18. That's how it happened.

That about 16, 17. Adam says, you know, I'm a boy.

And we start going to counseling and there's quite an amazing mountain you have to climb to go through the counseling, to go through the doctor. And the doctor I say in the book, I wanted to get up one night time and just give her a big hug because she basically gave my message.

But she wasn't the dad. She said, Adam, I know you want this all yesterday.

You want to be who, who you are physically, but you also have to grow into Adam spiritually and psychologically and emotionally and you have to slow down. And I just wanted to kiss. The doctor said, yes, let's go slow. But Adam wanted it all.

Yesterday, Adam wanted to be done the epilepsy issues and they had broken back into her life and this was slowing Adam down. Suddenly the seizures were major and they were life threatening. And we went to Montreal and we endured two full all day brain surgeries.

And even though we didn't get the miracle we wanted, they did significantly reduce the frequency and the severity of the of the seizures. But all Adam wanted to do was let's get this straight about who I am. One day I remember crying in counseling because Adam didn't care.

He just said, oh yeah, come on in, you can always come in. He always had us in with the doctors. And some days I just Want to say, I don't need to be in, but he would have us in.

And one day he started to say, you know, I don't see the boy in the mirror, and I want to see the boy in the mirror. So I thought to myself, oh, my God, you know, I don't like some days what I see in the mirror, but it is me. And he wasn't seeing himself.

So we became aware that there had to be a transition. And once you learn about this, again, there's a lot of diversity within that whole world. It's not. It's not uniform.

Some people go for it, all the change, and others don't. Some are very public, some are very private. You know, some switch names, some don't.

Some look like the image sometimes the old Hollywood movies had for transgender. And some are like my kids, but as normal looking as you can, you know, often got taken for a boy as the tomboy in any event. So.

But he did definitely want to do the transition, and he was starting there. And there's a tragedy to tell in this story where he doesn't get there, but he's talking about it.

He does this major, beautiful Facebook post, which is his new birth. Notice that I'm Adam, with some choice words that he uses that I won't use, but they're in the book. And he says, I'm Adam. I've always been Adam.

Even my smart mom, he didn't say, dad said in the womb, she knew that it was Adam. So it's different than my world growing up.

Then everybody said, boys, girls, locker room, bathroom, you know, and then you meet these people, and I've met PFLAG and the Toronto group, and they're just doing marvelous work, you know, and they're not in. I don't see any of them inflicting their agendas on kids and parents, but they're there for the parents to walk with them. And I know I don't want to.

I don't want to generalize, but I belong to a couple of groups still, because it's a. Even though Adam has passed, I want to learn. I want to learn to be a good advocate. And so I'm still learning.

And some of them are very young, early transitions. And that wasn't our story at all. I don't know how I would do with that. I just don't know, because it wasn't our story.

But amazing parents that are just asking questions, trying to share experiences. And again, more or less, as you say, it's the kids teaching. It's the kids teaching. And I just had to be quiet long enough to listen and learn.

And I voraciously read. I had to go on Facebook, I had to go on the Internet.

I wanted to learn, you know, and the support groups can help, but again, you have to be prudent about, you know, what's good, what works for you, what helps, and what's other stuff. You say this isn't helpful at all. I'm just, you know, getting out of here.

Well, what's. What's interesting to me in particular about the story is that Adam always was sure of who he was meant to be.

There are a lot of kids who are not in that same boat. There's that, you know, they may not have had that idea in their head till later on, but, you know, even your.

Even Adam's mother had that, had that same feeling. So what advice would you give or offer to parents who might be in the same situation in terms of how to best support their child going through this?

Because there's the child going through this and separately, there's the parent going through it. And oftentimes those two things are happening, you know, individually and separately.

Having gone through this yourself, having now written a book on it, reflecting on it, what do you take away from that in terms of advice that you could give to other people?

Right. I always hesitate to give advice knowing how unique everybody's circumstances are. Parents that are together, parents that are separated.

When the child starts to experience this, some parents are shocked and others are sought coming for years, you know, and when you say that Adam always. I don't know about that because in the sense that he just seemed to evolve in teenage.

And certainly maybe he was picking up the messages that we give, you know, and so, okay, those boys pictures should go up on the wall now. But so I don't. I know for sure he was that tomboy. And as a girl, I know that we had these crazy discussions.

I think it was revenge for a Catholic priest who got married because he just wouldn't wear a dress as this girl. I didn't think that was a big thing. But we got into these huge negotiations on the first convenient and no dress.

I said, yeah, you really have to, you know, wear a dress. Well, one of the few times I ever saw my Rebecca Adams in her dress as the procession was leaving the church, I saw.

I saw Rebecca Adams starting to take this dress off. I went, no, no, no. We found it in a ball in the corner into the bed a few days later. So Adam grew into it and we grew into it.

So my advice, I guess, is do what works for you. I hope you can keep doors open. I hope you can love and you can choose love and that this is about them and, you know, don't make it about you.

And to be able to just commit to go with them. And there are professionals out there who really can help.

Like I mentioned the rainbow clubs in high schools and some of the schools, and PFLAG is a wonderful thing. So it's pride of PFLAG and Ann Creighton, just a super group in Toronto that resource parents to help parents.

So there's resources and groups out there just as the young people have them and there's books to do it, but there's still the uniqueness of each kid and each story. And they will, you know, they will lead you and they, you know, ask questions and there will be.

This will all be done along with the normal stuff of teenage years, you know, so, you know, as if we didn't have enough as parents, you know, to deal with, you know, then we, you know, we have this.

So I just knew that I had decided late to become a parent, and I wasn't going to judge and risk losing this relationship because of, you know, I didn't want this or I, you know, I didn't, I didn't think it was right. I never, never thought that. But I did have a lot of fears. I had so many fears for the kid.

I knew the hate out there, the discrimination, the stereotypes. I worried, you know, jobs, getting a job, about health care. Just the journey to get the kid through to the other side.

You know, I had all these normal parent stuff. So that's okay. That's really normal.

And that, that's probably when I jump on this group the most on the Facebook, just to say, you know, don't judge yourselves. You know, all your worries. That's so normal to have.

You were a Catholic priest for 11 years before you became a father and a stepfather, a good one, and I'm sure you were.

But I'm curious, had you, while you were a priest, ever encountered a family who was going through anything similar or an individual who had come to you to talk about wanting to transition?

No, no. And no one's ever asked me that question before.

And it was really interesting that you asked me that question because certainly I go back a few years, so it's the 80s, and that's definitely happening.

I mean, once I read the history of transgender and LGBTQ stuff, there was some same sex couples talking to me and trying to find a place in their church. But no, not one transgender family story opened, came in, came in, came through the doors.

So here's the follow up to that question. Had that happened to you while you were a priest for 11 years, what do you think you would have said to that individual?

Not knowing, obviously, what the future held for you? Personally, I find it a really like, I find your journey so fascinating in terms of all the different compartments that it is.

Yes.

But I'm curious, have you ever thought about what you would have said to that individual while you were a priest about transitioning?

Well, I think I can answer that one better than the first one because I'm writing right now a second book, which is my life memoir from a faith perspective. And I'm calling it Father Rick Roaming Catholic R O A M I N. And it is a roller coaster.

50 years of stories where I'm still intact, my faith is still there, it's more roaming than Roman, but still a great deal of respect for those teachings, the rituals, the prayers. So what would I have done? I hope what I would have done, who knows, is that I never, ever sided on the judgment side.

I knew there was a God, that job was taken, and I just said, I'm not God. I'll leave that with God. And I know that there were others that were quick to judge and deny and, you know, and I just didn't. I don't know.

Without understanding everything that people were bringing to me, I just. One of the great graces and I'm pleased to remember and people tell me many stories that I've long forgotten where I was there for them.

And they said, you never judged. And you invited us to question and it was always okay with you for us to be angry at the church or with things.

So I would hope, I would hope that I would have just invited people. Definitely the resources weren't there, all the kids, the young people.

Adam was born as Rebecca Adam up in Sudbury, and it's not a small town, but still a lot of kids left those towns and came to Toronto and came to Ottawa where there were resources, where they could see kids like themselves, more kids like themselves. So it's a different time now. And a lot of people are learning.

You know, there's still judgment and hate and discrimination out there, but there's new legislation, there's rights, you know, so it's a better place, but the kids still got to go through it. And it's not going to be easy. It's going to be a very, very tough thing.

And the one thing that, you know, when people talked about Adam's death, one of the things that I never thought about was people asked me, did he take his life? I said, oh, no, no, no, no. I said, not that that's like a wrong either. I said, that's usually an illness or a depression.

But people, because of the gender journey, thought that that's probably led him to take his life. And I went, oh, no, never took his life. Never did. It was a drowning.

It was a final seizure in a hot tub where his friends found him and he was resuscitated and brought to the hospital. I was able to spend a precious weekend with him.

But it was just interesting to me that people came to that, given how hard that life can be, how people don't fit in and, you know, with all the messages that we get that he must have taken his life. I think today, if you go into high school, you see more than I saw gender fluidity and acceptance and the kids.

I mean, there's bad things too, of course, but the kids have each other's back and I really love that. I go into the clubs and I say, what's it like when you came out?

Oh, if anybody messes with me, I've got like 10 people that are just going to be all over them. So I think we're going in the right direction, I hope, you know, as far as high schools and stuff.

Well, and, you know, one of the reasons for me asking you the question about the religious component of your life is because for a lot of families who may be grappling with a child going through gender transition, religion is also a layer that they need to deal with. And in a lot of religions, you know, there's, there's different beliefs as it relates to the subject matter.

So it just adds another layer of complexity.

Yes.

To the whole journey. So, you know, your, your thoughts on that are so interesting. Having lived what you've lived, I wish.

It was better in the sense of less judgment. There certainly is in my Roman Catholic and in some evangelical churches, a very strong denunciation.

But gee, just the other day, Pope Francis talked about blessing same sex union. So there's. We're all on a journey, we're growing. And as I say, we don't have to get it. It doesn't have to be our life.

We just, you know, try to find a place of learning and respect and loving. So there's also other churches, United Church and Episcopalian in the States.

I only know this because of the transgender parents group, remarkable acceptance and Affirmation. So, you know, there's different responses to faith communities. But I don't want to minimize your point.

You know, you're trying to get some support and your faith is strong and it means a lot to you. And there you have people in your faith saying, this is wrong, you know, so that's, that's really hard.

Let me ask you, you mentioned how Adam passed away. One of the things when I read this book that really comes through again, the book is called Soar Adam Soar.

That really comes through is what a big, full, just beaming heart your, your son had. And you know, it's, it's just amazing to me the gift that he has kept giving. Could you take us through that?

Yes. Well, if you might be referring to the fact that at 16, he as still as Rebecca on the legal. Legally had a 10 second conversation with his mother.

Typical. That's about all we could get from the boy. Just whoo.

Said, well, what's this thing on the back of my driver's thing about driver's license about donor being a donor? Oh, well, if you ever had an accident and you weren't gonna make it, you could give your organs and save people's lives.

Oh yeah, I'd do that for sure. That was it. We just parked that away. That was a conversation the mom heard. I never heard that.

I didn't know that even though I knew his generosity and his goodness and he was good. He was always fighting his friends, battles against landlords and bosses and parents. He was always in their corner and there was a bigness about him.

So when we got him to the hospital and I got home from a trip to California, I just knew I had been in those rooms so many times with parishioners that I just knew how bad it was that I just saw that he was a life supporter, though they never used that word. And nobody pushed, nobody mentioned organ donation. But I had a couple side conversations.

And then the final night with Adam laying between us and we knew it was not going to be, we were not going to have our miracle.

I just raised organ donation and Suzanne stood, stopped me and said, I know what Adam wants and told me this story of being registered as an organ donor at 16. So he was able to give a heart, two kidneys and a liver save four lives.

And we learned three weeks after from Trillium Gift of Life that the heart went to a man, which because of the gender journey that just left off the page, and women received the other organs. And we thought that was the end of the story, but my kid was always mischievous. So it of course wasn't the end of the story.

And I tell it all in the book, but the small part of it just to share here is that within about a month we get this amazing heart filled letter, anonymous from the heart recipient. Pages to the brim. Just so happy and loving of what, you know, this kid had done. And that was it. We thought, okay, that's the end of the story.

We got together, Suzanne and I, and we wrote the response. And Suzanne said something really important, as in the postscript, because I wrote most of it.

But Suzanne said, we'd really like to know how you're doing. So it was just sort of a door open. And, well, that heart recipient, we learn all this later, but he said he woke up wanting to know the donor.

He woke up from the transplant and that was just on his mind. And so he says he read every obituary in Canada for that day. And of course it was just no way.

So we wrote back and I think it was Adam and his mischief. But Trillium really edits the letters to take away anything personal. John wanted to put his picture and his address and everything.

And they said, no, oh, you can't do that. So there were four things I said in my response that made it through. Hockey goalie at the celebration of life. We heard so many gorgeous stories.

His epilepsy. And so he just googled epilepsy. Celebration, hockey goalie. He knew the date. Boom. He knew the second he saw the obituary that that was my donor.

And so then he creates a fake Facebook page and he calls it heart recipient. And we go through the whole story that I tell in the book that finally I go to Welland and yes, you have my son's heart. Of course I want to meet you.

And we've become really good friends. And the curse is he's a Habs fan, just like my son. So I just, you know, I roll my eyes with my Ottawa Senators fan. He likes to tie cats.

I like the, the red blacks, you know, but other than that, he's a pretty good guy. He's a pretty decent guy. And yeah, he, he decided that he didn't want to be an international conference call manager anymore.

He just said, I want to be an actor.

I've been a community theater actor, but now he's been a designated survivor and Handmaid's Tale and background and he's done all these mystery murder, murder stuff and, and he's living his life. And it doesn't take away from the grief. The grief is permanent. It's part of who we are on the donor side.

But it's a lovely silver lining for, you know, for the family that we have, John, and we both are organ donor advocates, because the thought that I would have buried those organs or cremated those organs and John wouldn't, you know, receive, you know, this gift of life, I just. I can't imagine doing that.

Well, and we should mention how exceedingly rare it is for the family of somebody who's donated an organ to ever meet the person that is the organ donor recipient. It's just exceedingly rare, as you've described. You know, such great pains are taken to ensure privacy on both sides.

So the fact that your late son, his selfless gift, continues to live in this individual who you've had the opportunity to meet, I mean, when you kind of process all that, Rick, like, what goes through your mind about, you know, Adam's legacy just continues.

Well, I'm very proud of him. So proud of him as a dad. And this is part of it, his. His legacy. He's teaching. He's teaching stuff on the gender side.

He's teach stuff on the organ donor side, but he's also just this regular kid at the Uber. So I guess he's teaching parents stuff too, you know, because, you know that we all go a little insane with our kids and vice versa.

And that's why the metaphor for me has always been the roller coaster ride. He loved roller coaster rides. I hated them.

And he would like nothing more than me to go on the roller coaster ride and scream for two and a half minutes and he would laugh so hard and then we'd do it again just for him. And that's a metaphor to me of parenting and the metaphor for me of just going along. So his legacy is that he's the teacher.

It's like your very first question.

I think, you know, that he's teaching me so much, you know, and I don't have to have it all together, all the answers or have it all figured out or agree even, but it is unconditional love in the sense that, yes, I'm going to love this kid and this relationship, and we're going to see it through and we're meant for each other and we're, you know, Suzanne was always better at me. I tended to have to go heading around to the plan, life's plan. And she always talk about life's plan. There's a plan and we have to accept it.

I said, I don't want to accept it sometimes, you know, so, yeah, he is someone I am extremely proud of, and I used to work all those jobs for other people, and finally, as retired, I'm finally writing for myself, and I really wanted to tell the story, tell his story, put a face on all these labels that we live in life, you know, that I just wanted not to talk about transgender or talk about epilepsy or talk about organ donation, but just to put this, you know, face, you know, there's a. There's an author up in Barrie, Heather down, and she was the first one.

After many, many interviews, she said, you know, yeah, it's a transgender story. Yes, it's a epilepsy. Yes, it's an organ donor. She said, this is a love story. And I just went, yes, that's what it is. It's a love story. And it's.

Yes, mine and friends. The friends are amazing. And families love for Adam, but it's Adam's love for himself.

Heather never said that she talked about our love, but one time I was telling that to somebody, and it dawned on me, well, it's all predicated on Adam and his love for himself. He was just going to be who he was and love who he loved. He said, do you want to come along, you know, for the ride?

Rick Prashaw, we thank you so much for your time. Author of Soar Adam Soar. Thank you again.

Thank you very much, Lianne. I really enjoyed this.

Same with me. Take care.

Bye.