Dr. Angele Close is back on the podcast! Today, we’re diving deeper into letting go of mom shame and how to build a new relationship within ourselves so we can release that guilt and stress and show up in a more loving, kind, open-hearted way.

You’ll learn:

• Why the myths and expectations of society are like swimming in a fishbowl
• What it feels like to be in Self energy
• How something as simple as placing your hand over your heart can soothe you in times of stress
• 4 ways to tap into your Self
• Dr. Angele’s story of how she became less reactive with her son

Today’s episode is part 2 of my conversation with Dr. Angele Close. If you missed last week’s episode, be sure to go back and check it out here. You can also find links to my previous episodes on the Internal Family Systems model (IFS) at the end of the show notes.

---------------------------------------

Dr. Angele uses the Internal Family Systems model in her therapy and coaching in order to help moms unburden themselves from trauma, guilt, stress, burnout, overwhelm, and that mental load that you're carrying in your head. She then teaches them how to relate to the stressors of parenting in a different way so that they can feel more joyful, calm, present, and able to actually enjoy the experience of raising kids.

Turning Myths into Empowerment

In last week’s episode, we talked a lot about the myths of motherhood, including the Good Mom myth.

There is so much about mom culture in our society that is toxic. The messaging all around us is sending messages that we basically have to be Supermom, or else we’re failing. Dr. Angele says, “It’s oppressive. It’s life limiting…The liberation comes in the awareness of it.” 

When it comes to these myths, we have to ask ourselves, “What am I believing? What are the parts of me that have come to believe some of this stuff?”

When you understand the answers to these questions, you can actually design your own experience of motherhood. It is an opportunity for awakening and empowerment. 

Dr. Angele says, “I think becoming a mother is a gateway for us to become our true, authentic self. That's the invitation. That's the true power.”

Self Energy and Being Self-Led

“Self” was conceptualized by Dr. Richard Schwartz, who created IFS. It’s that place inside yourself that is just you. He talks about an energy of being coherent and connected. Your body, heart, and mind are all in the same place.

Dr. Angele thinks of it as our soul energy. She says, “It’s the energy within yourself which every human has. And it's not changed or tarnished by anything that you've been through or that's happened to you.”

One example Dr. Angele shared was the image of the sky. Your Self energy is the sun, and your parts are the clouds. Even on a cloudy, overcast day, the sun is always there. 

Working with Your Parts - the Manager and the Firefighter

Unfortunately, we’re not living fully in Self energy every day. That’s not realistic when we live in a complex world that often feels unsafe or stressful. That’s when our “parts” take the wheel. 

These other parts come in to help us navigate and cope and live in the real world. They’re a bit like our armor, our protection. When we can drop that armor and unburden our parts, we become more aware and conscious to choose our beliefs and energy.

The Manager and the Firefighter are two of our Self-protective parts, and they come up a lot with moms. You might also discover parts that are a caregiver, critic, or coach. I’ve even named some of mine: iPad girl and Wild Child. Have a little fun with it!

Manager Parts

The Manager can also be referred to as the Taskmaster or Momager. Other versions of the Manager might be the Measurer, the Critic, or the People Pleaser.

This is a “doer” part. Moms are juggling so much. The Manager part takes care of it. It helps us achieve our goals and take care of the tasks on the never-ending to-do list. It gets our kids to their activities and puts dinner on the table. 

And sometimes it might be a bit perfectionistic. This is also the part that wants to be Supermom and is carrying the invisible mental load. 

When we lead from this part, there’s not a lot of joy. You might often feel rushed, overwhelmed, like there’s never enough time. It can feel like you’re on autopilot, just going through the motions.

It also doesn’t leave much space for compassion and patience. In a tough parenting moment, your Taskmaster is watching the clock and pushing to get out the door, rather than connecting with your child.

Firefighter Parts

You’ve probably heard me talk about fix it/f*ck it. If the Manager is the “fix it,” the Firefighter is the “f*ck it”. It’s the equally intense opposition to trying to be Supermom. It’s when you want to give up and burn it all to the ground. 

Dr. Angele describes these Firefighter parts as the Scroller, the Numb-er, the Shopper, the Snacker, the Binge Eater or Drinker. 

Maybe your Manager has been helping you eat healthy, but the Firefighter comes in and you eat 10 cookies in a sitting. 

These parts take over and sabotage all the work you’ve done. While they do serve a purpose, they are not supposed to be in charge. 

Tapping Into Self-Led Energy in Motherhood

When you’re leading from your parts, you often end up feeling in conflict with your values. For example, you bulldoze over your kid’s big feelings in order to get to school on time. Once that Taskmaster who only cares about being on time subsides, you’ll probably feel guilty because you didn’t show up in alignment with your values of compassion and connection.

I like to think of Self energy as being the perfect mom. That is often what I'm trying to tap into with my kids. Rather than showing up as a Manager or a Firefighter, I want to come from the energy of curiosity and compassion. Like there's no emergency here. In that energy, I can parent them in a way that they feel seen, understood, and empowered to do their own thinking. 

Dr. Angele describes her own Firefighter part that would freeze or numb her out in order to protect her from really painful, difficult feelings. And while she’s thankful for the way it helped her get through some tough years, when she became a mom it caused her to shut down when her kid was dysregulated or having a meltdown. 

She had to go to that part and work with it in order to feel safe enough to be in her Self energy.

There are lots of different ways that we can access Self energy.

The question that Dr. Angele finds most helpful is asking, “Who’s here?” What part(s) are active in you right now? That curiosity or beginner’s mind can be a gateway to Self.

Dr. Angele also says that truly being in her body is what she comes back to over and over when she wants to access Self energy. She says, “We live in a culture that values rationality and being logical, and we're cognitive and analytical. To me, the wisdom of Self and presence and loving awareness is in our body.”

Nature is also a beautiful gateway for Self. Particularly for people who are not religious, nature provides a way to connect to something greater, which Dr. Angele says, is what Self energy is.

To me, self-love is the ultimate hack to get to Self energy. It’s that idea of, “I love you and I’m not gonna let anything hurt you.” It makes you feel safe to let your Self shine through.

So how do you know when you’re in Self energy?

One way Dr. Angele described is that it almost feels like you can slow down time. 

For me, it feels like a settled feeling in my belly. I feel less tension in my chest and less tightness in my throat. Kind of like a sinking feeling where my body can feel relaxed and heavy.

Balancing Your Parts with Self-Led Energy

When I started working with IFS, I realized that my parts didn’t even know that my Self existed. My manager and some other parts were so strong that they thought they were me. 

Dr. Angele says that this is common in the beginning. Your parts think that they’re doing life all by themselves. If they don’t do it, nobody will. So we can speak from Self to those parts - let them know we see them, that we’re grateful, and that they aren’t alone.

Step 1: Start by seeing that each of your parts has good intentions. Understand what that part is trying to do for you and open your heart to it. Be compassionate and loving toward it. 

Step 2: Express gratitude for that part. Let it know you appreciate how it is trying to help you. Say, “I see that you’re working so hard. Thank you.”

Step 3: Get curious about how it can actually work well for you. As you heal, Dr. Angele says, your parts’ job descriptions need to change. They don’t need to fly in and protect you from everything as you develop capacity to hold your own pain. Ask the part, “What role do you want right now?”

As moms, our Taskmaster is exhausted. If we don’t tap into our Self energy and balance the system, we can’t rest. When moms’ Taskmaster is on 24/7, they literally can’t sleep. Or you’re sitting and watching TV, but you’re still thinking about all the things you have to do. It’s really draining. 

You can even ask your Manager, “Would you like a break?” Take it a bit further and wonder, “What would it look like to take a break? What would you do during it?” 

The same goes for our Firefighter parts. They might be used to coming in and dousing the fire (and undoing your hard work). Thank it for protecting you, and then ask, “What role do you want right now?” 

The more we connect with our parts, the more they trust us. And as those parts become less extreme, chaotic, and controlling, more room is available for fun, connection, compassion, peace, and ease.

I hope that after listening to our conversation today, you are able to identify an activated part or two within yourself that is coping with stress and overwhelm. And that you can start to have compassion and love for those parts and give them a bit of rest. 

Connect with Dr. Angele:

• Learn more about Dr. Angele’s work on her website
• Preorder the book, Unburdening Motherhood
• Follow her on Instagram @drangeleclose
• Follow on TikTok @cyclebreakingmomma

Resources:

• Episode 197: Freedom From The Good Mom Myth with Dr Angele Close
• Episode 183: Internal Family Systems (part 1)
• Episode 184: Finding Your SELF (IFS, part 2)
• Episode 185: Being What Your Kid Needs (IFS, part 3)
• Calm Mama Confessions: The Fix It/F*ck It Cycle
• No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz

Get your copy of the Stop Yelling Cheat Sheet!

In this free guide you’ll discover:

✨ A simple tool to stop yelling once you’ve started (This one thing will get you calm.)

✨ 40 things to do instead of yelling. (You only need to pick one!)

✨ Exactly why you yell. (And how to stop yourself from starting.)

✨A script to say to your kids when you yell. (So they don't follow you around!)

Download the Stop Yelling Cheat Sheet here

Connect With Darlynn: 

• Book a complimentary session with Darlynn
• Learn about the different parenting programs at www.calmmamacoaching.com
• Follow me on Instagram @darlynnchildress for daily tips 
• Rate and review the podcast on Itunes

Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. I'm your host, I'm Darlin Childress, I'm a

life and parenting coach. And this is part two

of my conversation with Dr. Angelle Close. Where we

talk about unburdening ourselves from motherhood, from the

myths of motherhood, from the stressors of motherhood,

and find a new way to relate to ourselves, to our kids and to

parenting so. So that we feel less stressed and more calm.

This particular episode is all about building

a new relationship within ourselves so that we

don't feel like crap, ultimately, so that we

can release ourselves from shame, from guilt, from stress,

from showing up in ways that we don't love as

parents, as moms in particular. And when we do

show up as a stressed out mom, a

new way to relate to that stress in a

loving, kind, open hearted way using the

concept of self led energy. This concept

is from internal Family Systems. Angelle is a

clinical psychologist and a therapist who

works in the internal family systems model and has written a book

that really taps into how to use internal family

systems in a way to help moms unburden

themselves from trauma, from guilt,

from stress, from mental burnout, from overwhelm,

from that mental load that you're carrying in your head. How to relate

to the stressors of parenting in a different way so that you can

feel more joyful, more calm, more present in your

life, so that you can enjoy motherhood and enjoy the experience

of raising kids and not feeling like it's a giant

burden and really a giant bummer. So this

is part two. If you missed part one, I encourage you to go back and

listen to that one either now or after you listen to this one.

And of course it's really important that you also get a foundation

in internal family systems. So I'd love to invite you to go back

to my archive and listen to the three part series I did

where I really teach the concepts of internal family systems.

When you listen to this episode, we kind of use the shorthand. We're talking about

managers, we're talking about firefighters, we're talking about self,

we're talking about self led energy. And if you're a little bit lost and

confused, go back to episodes 183, 184 and

185 and you'll learn a little bit more about what we're

talking about when it comes to internal family systems. And then you'll be able to

connect the dots and relate that to yourself as a parent and

just really learn to show up in a calm mama. Way. Right. This

podcast is all about becoming a calm mama. And Dr.

Angelle's book is so useful

in actually unwinding and unraveling some of the

root causes of our lack of calm. So I

highly recommend her book. I highly recommend listening to this episode. I

loved it so much. I'm, like, excited to

introduce you to Dr. Angelle and for you to learn

more about unburneting motherhood. Okay, welcome back.

We're in part two, and Angela and

I were already, like, talking about this episode, and I was like, no, let's just

start recording because we have so much. So much good stuff to talk about.

So we're. Today, we're going to talk about our mom

manager parts and our mom firefighter parts. And

these are the parts that you, angel, have kind

of identified as can show up in

motherhood or when you're in this, believing in these.

The myths of the good mother. Right, Right. Is that fair?

Yeah. Many of them are subscribing to the myths. That's. That's what I have

found. Not necessarily, but I think when it shows up

in a mom, oftentimes as you get curious about it,

you'll realize there's some belief in there that this part

has taken on. Like, I also found the ideas that make us feel

like we need to be a good girl, that we were raised, you know, around

this idea of be a good. Now it just translates into be a good mom.

So it. Oh, my goodness. Both motherhood. But it also. We can follow

the thread usually back to when we were little. Yeah.

Well, I was just gonna say it's like, I feel like the way we were

raised is often quite individualized. Right. We have, like, childhood

wounds and childhood traumas and different parents. Like, you were talking

about your mom being really neat, and, you know, in our last

episode, and. And I was like, that's not my experience

because I grew up with a mom severely

depressed with severe adhd. So our

house was extremely chaotic. And that was then

scary to me, and I was, like, wanting to control

my environment. I think that there's these unique parts of us that show up

because of our experiences. Either they're reactive to what

we were raised. And then I think in this conversation, I want

to focus on the. Almost, like, so scary. Weird to say

this, but, like, mom being a mom as a traumatic

event. Yeah, yeah. Which is.

I mean, it doesn't have to be, but it often

almost is. Like, it's like. It's like this.

At least this experience that we are having

that is intense. Yeah. And in

some ways, especially if you're raising your kids in a western environment.

Yeah. And, you know, if you're high achieving, like all these things,

we kind of have general experiences that are

universal on some level in this. If you're in this

culture that we're in. And it's like culture can also

create burdens. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And I think the mom culture can. It is. It is

toxic for. For sure. Yeah, it is toxic. The.

The myths and the molds and the standards of what

we're being held against, and many people

don't recognize it, but it's there. So even if it's in the

messaging and the faces you get from people, I mean, it's like

we've all absorbed it. Dr. Sophie Brock talks about swimming in the fishbowl.

So to try and make moms understand, it's like we're all swimming in this

fishbowl, but the fish don't question the water. But the water

is saying, you know, to moms, you have to be superhuman,

you have to be a super mom, or you suck pretty much, you're failing.

And so it is traumatic in the sense that

it's oppressive. It's life limiting. As

long as we are conscious, you know, I think you can pick

and choose. The liberation comes in awareness of it. So our

parts, you know, I'm not saying these parts. Our parts are not wrong or

bad. They're trying their very best to help us avoid pain in our

life and to avoid things like humiliation. And we want to

belong to the group. Right. Because we're hardwired to be communal.

So we have needs to belong and be loved, and that's all good.

But the society and these myths are mistaken. They're

erroneous, they're outdated, and they're usually very patriarchal and

oppressive to women. So mothering is mixed

in with all of that. And so I think for us to find our own

way means kind of navigating the murkiness of what

am I believing? What are the parts of me that have come to believe some

of this stuff so that I can design my own motherhood and it

can actually be empowering. For me, motherhood is in

matrescence. It is an opportunity for awakening. I think

becoming a mother is a gateway for us to become our true,

authentic self. That's the invitation. So for me, that's.

That's the true power. I would not be who I am now if it were

not for becoming a mom to my three kids. And it's been a

real messy journey. Yes.

I always say parenting is my opportunity for growth. And

yes, and it has been true and it continues to be

learning now to let go. But yeah, it's fascinating.

I think that sometimes we, when we talk about internal family systems, we often

start at parts. I think it would be really helpful to actually

anchor this conversation in self led energy

and give us listeners kind

of what is possible when these parts

are unburdened, are healed, when we

let go of some of our myths and what does that

feel like and what does that look like and why is it beneficial to our

kids? And so I wondered if you could just start with talking

about self energy and self being self

led and kind of what we are talking about. You have a lot of

different ways in your book that you access this so you can take any

angle that you feel comfortable with because there's lots of ways to think about,

quote self. Quote self. Yeah, absolutely.

So I mean, just to say for those who maybe didn't listen to your previous

parts about IFS, so self, self, self was

conceptualized by Dr. Richard Schwartz who created

IFS. And it's a term that he used to

describe what he experienced working with his clients. When

working with his clients, he would get to a place where there were no more

parts that were talking and the client would just say, but that's

not a part, it's just, it's just me, it's. And he, he got curious

about that and he kind of fleshed it out a little bit and came up

to with identifying self or self energy

with a capital S. I use

soul. To me that also means that's my soul energy or

people. I mean you can use different terms and different contemplative practices

have terms for this, right? It's Buddha energy or Christ

consciousness or the word itself isn't as

important as you knowing this energy within yourself which

every human has. And it's, it's not

changed or tarnished by anything that you've been through or that's happened to

you and it's within you. And so it's. I do like the

metaphor that I have heard where

self or self energy is the sun and our parts are the clouds.

And so the sun is always there. And sometimes we can have really stormy

seas as a human and get really carried away by the wind and the clouds

and the rain, which are emotions and our perceptions.

But you know, when the clouds part, when our parts

part away and give us space, we have this energy within

us that had. I actually like the term too from

my mindfulness training, loving Awareness. So Jack Kornfield would

talk lots about loving awareness. And to me that's the energy.

And I just want to explain also it's not like you

are living fully in this energy all the time. I mean there might be

some monks out in a mountain somewhere that are only in self

energy and resonating in, in a state that, you know to

be a human in this world is we live with our parts. They help

us function, they help us cope, they help us live. So the idea

isn't that any of your parts are wrong or bad. We

need all of them. So I, I like to describe this.

You know, a human is like a system and the self

is like this golden light. It's the sun that's within us at all times,

that if we can relax enough and we don't need to protect ourselves enough,

but we're truly safe. It's our true essence.

And it turns out that this self energy or this essence from that place

is healing in and of itself. So it's kind of like life force. It's

like we all heal, right. I believe we're all self healing. We know this

physically because we can see our cuts heal, but we also know

this emotionally. I believe I've been a therapist for 20 years.

You know, we're drawn to heal ourselves. We want that

and that's the energy that can provide us with that

healing and that awakening and that awareness and the

truth of who we truly are. So when we're our parts are not busy trying

to make somebody else happy or

behave in ways so that I don't get judged. Like you don't have

to earn love. Self energy kind of is love. It

is pure acceptance. It's unconditional.

And of course those C's that, that Dick Schwartz, you know, likes to

describe them, but it, it's an energy of

being fully sort of coherent and connected. Your body is in the

same place, your heart is open, your mind is in

the same place. So for maybe for people to start

to get a sense because we've all been there, we've all felt it. Right.

But let me ask for one thing really quick before we go. Sure, jump in.

I was just thinking, I think moms can access it by

thinking about the love they feel for their kids. Okay.

Like, yeah. You know how pure it

is when it's, when you're not thinking about your kids behavior, when you're not thinking

about their future or how they acted like

there's, there is an essence of mother love that we can

like. It's like core. It's very, very solid

in our bellies. Like I love my kids and then I have a lot of

thoughts and feelings about. Yeah. Not

the core thing. And

it's like that thing inside of you that can

love your kid, like that's yourself.

Yeah. I don't know, I was just thinking that we all can identify with that.

When you watch them sleep, like if you ever, if you have littles and you

would go into their room, right. And like look at your infant or

toddler, your little one sleeping. Right. There's nothing to

do, you know? Yeah. You just feel it. You feel it in your chest,

you feel it in your heart. But I had it with my 19 year old

yesterday. Like he was asleep. Yeah.

He was like taking a nap and it was like,

oh, he's okay, everything's okay. Yeah, I

just, I felt love, I felt safe. I felt like it just like a. Yeah,

it's so. Because I think sometimes we try to tap into it for ourselves and

it's hard but as moms we can access. It's a gateway.

It is a gateway before. Okay, so you were going to say that go. You

were going to say sees, you know, other ideas and things like that.

Yeah, I mean it's an energy of. Also I think one of the way,

easier ways too is like when you're a child before you develop all these

burdens right before you start school and you're told that you're not right or

you start to experience things that make you feel like there's something wrong with you,

like exuberance, awe,

wonder, joy. Obviously this is all self energy

that's not burdened. Right. It flows easily when we have a good hearty

belly laugh with somebody. Right. I mean that to me is also

self energy. So it's not just one thing and

there's different ways that we can access it within ourselves. But

because we live in these generally unsafe spaces

or places that are so stressful,

our parts tend to be the ones that are, you know,

taking the wheel of, of the car, so to speak. So I use that

analogy a lot. Right. We can't just constantly be in self

energy because our world is quite complex and it's not so safe.

So we really navigate it with the help of our parts.

But the more that we can unburden our parts, for

instance, that came to believe all these ideas about being not a good

mom, you know, that keep us disconnected from our.

The truth of who we are, which is for us to be able to be

okay with ourselves. We try really Hard to live in this

world and avoid pain and judgment and censure from others.

But once we can turn towards our parts, understand their

roles and then if they're willing to with

us from that self energy of like you said, I'm okay, he's

okay, I'm okay. Right. In our heart we know that if we can drop

our armor and our self protection and then

we're more aware and conscious to choose,

you know, with the help of our parts that want to help us live life

for us. But they're not taken over steering the ship

so the threat isn't as intense. But we need a degree of safety in order

in order to get to that and start accessing it for ourself.

Yeah. So it's not like it's not like a light switch, right.

It's like it's more like I prefer self energy

because it's like how much of that self energy do I have right now? How

much awareness do I have or how much are the parts taking

me over? Sorry. Yeah, no, I think that's really helpful because

similar to what I was going to say is that

if you can experience it just a little bit, you know,

just a tiny bit of what self energy feels like to me.

I always feel it in my body like a settled thing

in my belly and less tension in

my chest and less tightness in my throat. Like I

kind of, when it's embodied I can kind of identify like ah,

like even last time last week when we asked the question, you know, how do

you feel when you hear Supermom or Good enough mother. It's like

notice the tension in your body and the difference. Right. And it's like we're

working towards this energy that is like okay,

like some kind of sinking, settling. Even as I describe it, my body goes

down and relaxes and then

if you have a taste, the tiny taste of it, then

you can tell maybe when you're not in it. Yeah. And that's

really to me what ifs

internal family systems invites us to is this awareness

of. I have

sometimes parts of me that are activated

or in control or are like the

loudest and they are the

clouds or the dark. They're covering up that

inner calm, that inner sense of self. And

to me internal family systems is a conversation

really between the

yourself and those parts of you. And in the beginning

what I noticed is that my

parts didn't know self existed.

That's right, yeah. And it was just

the beginning of like hey,

do you, do you know who I am?

Like who Are you like the self gets to get to know the

parts and the parts gets to know the self and what I

learned and I want. Why I bring this up is because

my main manager part, every other

part of me thought that was me. Yeah. Thought that was

self. Right. Trusted that very

managerial part of me

that got formed when I was in that messy house

with the unpredictable, unreliable family. You

know, scary. It's like she was like, I'm in

charge. I've got you guys. And took over

really. Self energy. And

that, that's the biggest conversation I have is with that

part. That's the one I always have to ask if like she'll

just kind of let me talk to everybody else. And

when I say me, I'm talking about self. And that's. I think I wanted to

articulate that a little bit because it's so

weird to hear about it and it's like. But what is it actually? What are

you saying? I don't know if you want to share how you found

self a little bit as a mom or what that was like.

Yeah, I mean I have a kind of a similar story, Darla. I

mean similar but different. But in terms of. Yeah. The me who I thought

I was like, we can live life very much from a very strong

part that's living life for us. Like sometimes that's a hot mess part

too. For some people. There's a whole identity. It could be any part. That's

right. That's right. There's no limitations here in

ifs. We call it a self like part. You know, it

can be a little confusing but, but it's. You know, I lived in one. Yeah.

For probably all those early years of motherhood. I was

very busy from this very high functioning

part that. And even it. I

meditated from it and I taught meditation from it. So you know,

I, I think it, it can. Our parts that are

high functioning, they do a lot for us. You know, I love those parts.

I love myself like parts because they did a lot of life for me

when I didn't know how to do it yet, you know.

And so it's like a, it's a real process getting

to know our different parts inside and to access that

self energy different ways that

I. That we can do it. I think it's helped me to experiment like for

sure in the body. I mean over, over the years I keep coming

back more and more and more to just being physical. Just

somatically my body, my nervous system has all the wisdom

in it. I think, you know, we're very head up, kind of neck

up people. Like, we live in a culture that values rationality and

being logical and we're cognitive and analytical. And to me

there's so, I mean the wisdom of self and presence

and loving awareness and is in our body. We have to

kind of be awake fully in it and sometimes we have parts that don't want

us. So I for, for instance, I talk about this in my book. Like because

of my trauma history, I have a part that just would

freeze like a deer in headlights. It would just be kind of a veil. You

could say it numbed me out or just kind of took me out. And

for a lot of my life that's how I was managing to not feel really

painful, difficult feelings. And

so, you know, I'm so thankful for that part that helped me through those years.

But coming to as a parent, you know, here I was

going into this state when my kid was emotionally

dysregulated and angry and I would just freeze because his anger was

conflict to my parts that are saying oh we don't, we don't do well

with conflict here. Like this is scary shut down.

And so I had to go to that part that would kept shutting me down

in order to be able to be safe enough to be in self. Right.

So to your question, like when you're inside it's like okay, one,

one question that I have found actually is helpful. Maybe other moms

will find it helpful, but it's helped me is just to say who's here?

Who's here inside? And then notice who's the one asking

the question because who's here is curious. Which

is one of the eight C's right. Like it's that open energy of

I don't know. And in mindfulness we call it beginner's mind. But

it's just an attitude of I don't know. And humans

don't like I don't know. Right. Our none of our parts really like the I

don't know. Because our self protective system, whether it's a firefighter or

a manager, like they like to to be, they're on guard

so that I don't knowness or surrender or just

beginner's mind. For me that's a gateway to

self. So questions of just who's here or

just even I care now I care is something that I do. If I feel

I'm very emotionally activated, I'll just say put my hand on my chest and

I'll say I care about this now that could be a self like Part a

caretaker part within me. That's just because I'm a therapist and I have

a mom. So, you know, I have a part that's really good at caring for

people and having compassion. And if it's a self like part

or it's self energy, it could. Or is it a bit of both? I don't

really care because the fact is it feels really good. Soothing. Yeah. It's working in

that moment. Right. So it works. And it's a. And it's a window

into kind of regulating and calming my nervous system. And it's probably got a little

self energy. Our parts carry self energy too, of. Course, because

they're part of us. I don't know where I went with that response, but is

that. No, it's perfect. I. I do like the hand on your heart. I

learned that years ago and how I

was taught like that you actually are giving yourself

oxytocin when you do that. Like it actually is a neurological

hormonal change. And I

still do it a lot, but I did it a lot when my kids were

young and activated and I would just put my hand on my heart and like

there's so many tools that I teach in my programs like the pause

break and really connecting to our

thoughts and connecting to our body and you know, walking

ourselves through the discomfort of the moment and really

self soothing. And I think ifs can be so

helpful if you have the language of like the

who's doing the soothing is self soothing. And

maybe it's not always. Maybe it's like a caregiver part or

caretaker part. But like you said, it doesn't really matter as long as you're kind

of getting your needs met on some level.

Yeah, I mean it's. And sometimes we need to develop an

inner coach caring part. Right. If we have a very potent

inner critic that's leading us down a pathway of depression or

significant anxiety. Like it's good to have parts inside that are going to

be counterbalancing some of that energy. But this is where

kind of see some psychotherapy models don't give enough

of the healing because we still have these parts. It's still

not self energy. Right. So we're now we're just having inner

war because we have a part that's very inner critical. And then

we have a part that's trying to say, well no you're not and kind of

coach that. So, you know, it. It's better if we can

access that self energy. It just sometimes it takes us a lot of time. We

Might have a lot of parts that don't feel safe. And especially if you, if,

I mean if you grew up in a home where being

in self energy was punished and you were

it led to more trauma or more abuse, then.

Then it's real. That person's really. It's going to take a lot of time to

really feel like those parts are willing to sense that energy for

it to even be safe. Not everyone will

resonate that, but some people will get that. That. Yeah. Right. Hard

to feel safe enough to be in that space.

So the body, right? To be in the body. Right. How. How can I feel

safe in my body? And I think nature is a beautiful gateway

for self. People will just say, well I'm not religious but I like going

on walks, you know, like, I like that. So obviously

when we can be in there's energy coming from nature for us

if we are able to, you know, be near water or

trees or even owning your own plant

can. Can feed those needs in that same way to connect us

to something greater. Which is what self energy is. Yeah. So

beautiful. Well, I love how you said like who's here? And

I think giving some language like I was talking about

that we all have like parts like my iPad girl. Okay. That's

like I named her. I got to know her. I have Wild Child. Like I've

got all these different parts. Right. Because I've done parts mapping and done

the IFS work. But maybe someone's listening.

Like what the hell are you talking about? I

wouldn't, I wouldn't mind talking about like mom manager

parts like you talk about in your book or mom firefighter parts. And you mentioned

quite a few, not quite a few. Like it's too much. But you know, you

kind of define different types almost archetypes in

some ways of, of parts that show up

in motherhood for some of us at certain times or you

know, maybe we live in those parts and I think I

identifying just some language of like oh yeah, I have

that. Okay. I could see myself having that part activated

sometimes or oh yeah, I do that too. Oh, that's a part.

Oh, I didn't realize that was a part. So kind of giving some. Some

words generic. And then if you want to go

deeper, if you're listening, you want to go deeper. Like getting Dick Schwartz

book, no bad parts. There's a Richard Swartz,

there's a bunch of meditations and kind of you can do. You can get

pretty far with that book. Yeah.

We're not going to talk about exiles or Unburdening, necessarily on the podcast,

but just kind of identifying when what I'm hoping is that

everyone's like, oh, that's an activated part of me

that's coping with stress,

overwhelm, you know, a negative thought, whatever it is, like, that's not

me. That's a part. And then we can start to have compassion

for those parts and

love them and tell them they don't have to work so hard

and like, yeah, so tell me

a couple of mom manager parts. Because I definitely,

when I read there this section of the book, I was like,

I have seen these in my work so much with my clients.

Yeah. Yeah. Which one? Have you seen them? Like, one of the most. Would it

be the task mask? Like, I mean, we talked last time, right, about the invisible

load and what it means to be a mom in this day and age. So,

yeah, I. I think I see

definitely, like, people pleaser a lot.

And I. That comes up a lot in parenting right now because,

yeah, we don't want our kids to be

unhappy. So it kind of goes to that, like, not trusting in

resilience and over, over, over

gently parenting. Right? Like, kind of, you know,

parenting too gently. It sounds so weird. And

the taskmaster, for sure, I see quite a bit. And

that is like that Mama

Jerry role, right? Where moms are really stuck in that. And

then the measurer, for sure, is, like, so much of

that happening. So if you want to just talk a little bit about those.

So even as I'm saying it, maybe you're, like, listening. Someone's like,

taskmaster, yes. People pleaser, yes. Measurer, yes.

I hope so, because, I mean, you know, and parts are gonna want different

names, but, yeah, hopefully, if people are already resonating and going, oh,

yeah, I have a taskmaster or, like, I mean, it's a doer part, right? It's

as we talked last time, that just the breakdown of how many things

are moms are trying to deal with to navigate

a family in this day and age, whether they work

inside the home only or also outside the home. I mean, they're just juggling so

much. So this is going to be a manager part that's going to take care

of all of the stuff. And it might be a bit perfectionistic. So it wants

to be super mom, and it's doing all of the things, and so it's

carrying that invisible load in the brain that's like, oh, I got to do this.

I got to do that. Juggling all of the things and getting it done.

Right. Like, I'm going to sew the dance costume. And you know,

it helps us achieve our goals. It helps us take care of those

multiple tasks on that never ending to do list.

That's our taskmaster. That when we lead from that part,

there's not a lot of joy. Yeah. Right.

Where is not a lot of like,

I feel like time. I feel like when you're in self led energy, you can

slow down time. So that taskmaster part,

that perfectionist part, achiever part, it's like really rushed. It feels like

there's never enough time. So that feeling

of feeling rushed, overwhelmed, like not just going

through the motions. So kind of the emotion can feel autopilot for sure.

Yeah. Kind of the emotion of all that

when it. We can have self

lead our lives on to some level or work with

the taskmaster part in a way that's loving and gentle

and like collaborative on some level with

maybe dropping some expectations too. Like, is

that. How important is that? You know, is that really what you want to do?

Kind of being curious and compassionate and slowing

down time. But I think when we're in the. When we're in the manager

part and it feels like everything is really

intense and hard and negative and you're just like, get it to

come on, we gotta go. Let's go. Weird. That's when it's like,

maybe you can invite self into that moment. Yeah.

Because you're. It is for sure a time clock watcher because it's taking all the

kids to all their sports and getting the dinner and doing all the things

and. And it wants to do them well. Like, I mean, there. These are good

parts that want to do it well. And they might have absorbed. They probably have

absorbed this idea of what it means to be a good mom, which means your

kids aren't late for school and you're not late for baseball, you know, and so.

And they've had a high protein snack before breakfast and they also have.

That's right. You know, and they look or. And they've got their hair brushed,

etc. Right. And so where, where. If we're running too much

from this part, this is where parenting can. We can have tough parenting moments

because it's like, oh, suddenly though, my kid is frustrated because your

socks aren't fitting right. And so the taskmaster is looking at the time and saying,

well, I don't have room for you to not be okay with your socks right

now. Right. And so. And it's gotta. I probably am exuding

the tone right now, just even imagining it. Right. I Feel that energy already.

And the taskmaster part is like, suddenly I don't care about what's

happening with my kid here. We want to bulldoze past like we don't see

the problems or the moments that our kid need us to connect. Yeah. We're not

doing the thing that we say we want to do which is like

I don't think, I don't think of it as gentle parent connected parenting. Yeah.

And that I want to show up as like a compassionate

connected parent. I want to actually show up as a self led parent right

in that energy. And yet here I am in this moment not giving a shit.

And then like I don't care. It doesn't matter. You did

that yesterday. Like, and then you feel

terrible. Then you go like,

it's like you're overachieving. Then you don't succeed. And then that

critic measurer part now starts to talk

and like what's that one sound like? Who's that one? Who's that?

Well, yeah, let's say follow that same example. And then you get in the car

and you're driving your kid and, and you, and so now your task man,

now you're in the car. So you're not. You did it. Checkbox. Good job,

backed it off. But you're in there. But then you know, your kid thinks you

suck and that doesn't feel good. And you don't feel good because now

that part that was doing the thing is maybe subsided and now you start to

feel like that sucks or you start to feel guilty. You

can be berate yourself because that's not really, you know, in that

moment that you were not from being self led and so it didn't

feel good. You didn't get the impact that you would like to have. So those

are those mini parenting moments and those are moments for repair. So

that's an opportunity where if I can get a little of that self energy,

it's usually because now my nervous system is relaxed a little bit. I

have a little more awareness and I'm like, oh yeah, I was just taken

over there. And so this is a moment having that

language where a mom can recognize, oh, that was my task part or whatever

part. Feels good for you to call it. Maybe you call it Barbara. Like I'll

sometimes I give them a name personify. Oh yeah, Barbara who's really

oriented towards getting, you know, being on time. Barbara

gets really annoyed because all she cares about is being on time. But

ultimately that's, you know, in conflict with my value, which

is I would Rather be there to meet my kids needs in that moment. Because

my kid in that moment, her needs or his needs or their needs are

more important than the time. Right? Yeah. Time is such

a huge. It's so stressful for parents. Yeah.

We make it mean so much particular in, in

our western culture. Like, I don't ever. I'm like, why

01 late? Like I did. Like, what if you have to stop

and go to the bathroom? Like, I don't know. Like, it just feels so intense.

Like one minute it's like it doesn't need to be so

intense, but it is. There's a lot of expectation and then we carry that.

I think that's not in the myth, but it's definitely one. Like, good

moms are on time. Yeah, that's right. Good moms

get kids to school on. Time because that or everything on time.

Right. Functioning with it. You're functioning within the world. And if you're not on time.

Yeah. You're obviously a disaster. Yeah. And

the other thing about our, our taskmaster, I mean, it's exhausted.

So it also doesn't. If it's gone too long and we

don't, we can't relate to it from our self energy or other parts that are

good at kind of balancing the system. We can't rest.

So a lot of moms, well, they're so. Their taskmaster is so

on 24 7, they can't sleep. Like, they literally have

insomnia. They're sitting and you know, maybe I'm watching a show with my

partner. You know, they're watching the show, but I'm just watching it

physically, but sitting there and I'm still thinking about all the things I have to

do. So I'm not really tuning out enough to relax my nervous system. So

that's an energy that when it's out of, when it's in extreme,

it's really exhausting and it's really draining. So if a mom

can see that in herself, recognize that

so that you can help. Go. Okay. What do I need to balance out a

little bit more and ask that part. Would you like a break? Like, I see

that you're working so hard. Thank you. Because we want to give that part gratitude

first and acknowledge it. But like you said, darlin, even

sometimes introducing it, that part doesn't know. So it thinks I'm doing

life all by myself and if I don't do it, nobody's going to do it.

So that first introduction from our self energy from our

core, you know, adult, conscious, grown up self to

say, hey, I see how hard you're working. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for doing all of these things for me.

Would you like a break like and then we start that relationship with that

part. Yeah. Find a new way. And I think when I

in my coaching practice I think I'm all often

self like just asking those

parts questions. Yeah. And

offering like what would it look like to take a break? Or you know, would

you like one? Or what would that break even look like and what would you

do during it? And you know, kind of, you know, playing that out

a little bit and identifying

the fear. Like what are you afraid of if you

were to take a break or. Yeah. Well. And this is

where you're going to get the myths, right? Yes. Well if I don't do it,

nobody's going to do it. Well, you know, and if I don't get my

kids to school on time, the teachers are going to think I'm a bad mom

or something. Right. Or my kids will be. Yeah. You know,

socially, you know, rejected or whatever

because they don't look a certain part or show up at the right parties or

whatever the things are that we're worried about. And it could be lots,

so many. And I like for me I think

I was always a little bit afraid of my firefighter parts.

And so I want to talk a little bit about that. So

for like the way it plays out for me is that the Fix it,

fuck it. So I like have this fix it energy and then if

I get tired and I have to stop, then

my firefighters are going to take over and they're just going to be like fuck

it, burn it all down. Sabotage everything I've been doing,

ruin it all. And I like

let that happen sometime, especially before I was aware

and then end up in like these firefighter parts which

you name as like the scroller, the number,

you read it better. Person who numbs themselves,

the shopper, the snacker, binge eater or the drinker,

those parts would take over. But then they would also sabotage all my work.

And then because they are not also supposed to be in charge.

Like scrolling is not a genuine rest

for me and for most people it's not.

Can be a form of mental break.

Yeah. But it doesn't actually rejuvenate me.

There are other things that do. And when I am in

self led energy and I

let my activated manager parts know

that we're not. I'm not gonna let firefighters come in and

ruin everything while you're taking a nap. Right

Right. Like, I think I had almost an existential fear that if I

stopped, I'd never start again if I didn't keep to

this. But I had evidence of that too. Like, I eat

very, very well, and then all of a sudden I eat 10 chocolate chip cookies

that I just made because they're delicious and fuck it, and I made them anyway,

and they're like all that. So I think that plays out

for moms. And like, how do we

get to that soothing self

place? Yeah, yeah. I mean, because they're so extreme, right?

Because we're trying to be the super mom. And then it's. There's going to

be an equally intense

opposition that wants. Has a different agenda. I

mean, our parts all want the best for us, but they, they. Their

agendas are cross crisscrossing, you know, and so that while

the manager wants to eat healthy and, you know, be the

right size, et cetera, et cetera. Because most women have

absorbed a lot of those myths too, right? Which we want to look good, but

we want to feel good. So I'm not saying it's all superficial, but, but

oftentimes, right, those are the parts that are wanting us to work towards those

goals. And, and if we're exhausted and we're

depleted, then oftentimes, then our firefighter is going

to respond in kind with a similar kind of intense energy. Like

10 cookies instead of two, right? Yes. And so to

anchor, like you said, darlin, from that if I can communicate to these

parts from that anchor of self energy and see

both of them, right. And actually see from that place

that they're. They both care about me and are trying to accomplish things.

And you know, as you know, in the practice, you would have those parts even

communicate to each other. But we can start by seeing each good

intention. Right. We often, you know, the firefighters get shamed

a lot. They get a bad rap because they aren't as positively reinforced

in our society as supermom is. Right. And so they

get, yeah, these things. Like you're achiever, you're a caretaker, people

pleaser, mama bear, perfectionist, you know, oh, those

are. You're a good mom. What a good mom, what a good woman,

what a good wife, what a good sister. I mean, they're all those

aspects. Yeah. So you can feel like if I let those

go, I'll lose part of my identity. Oh, people won't like me as

much. Then also these firefighters will take over. They'll really fuck it all up.

I know. I want to just, just kind of narrate That a little bit is

because I think when we hear things like this talk

about. We're not talking about the challenge of it. It's like, here's your best

practice. And then you're like, do it. Good job. And then someone goes and does

it and they're like, this is not. It doesn't feel. It's not. I'm not as.

And then they go back into the criticism like, well,

Angela and Darlin are so good at it. And it's because they're so

educated or whatever they do, they measure. And it's like, no,

girls, we all have to figure out how

to love ourselves through this messy middle of

it. Like, and that to me is

radical. Self love is like the ultimate

hack to get to self energy is

like, I this self

love you and I'm not gonna let anything hurt

you. And I think about self a lot of times

like, like a perfect parent

or when you have a four year old and

they don't want to go to preschool and

they're like, you're gock. You're gonna forget me. You're not gonna come

back. Right. That's like their scared part activated. And of course

you're. You're not like, I mean,

maybe I will. I don't know. You know, you're never like, mean about

it. Like, oh, but I was there yesterday. You kind of are like, honey,

foreign. Let's talk about that. Like the perfect parent. Not that

we need to. There is one, I guess. Like, self would be perfect.

Yeah. We don't have to be, but there is an energy there that

we can. Is available to us and to our kids of like,

shh. Let's break this down a little bit. You know,

slow it down, have a conversation. Yeah.

Connect. That doesn't mean you, you don't have boundaries

or limitations. It's like finding

the thing that that person, that part of you needs to hear in order

to maybe back out, back off a little bit or, or

show up a little bit more, whatever. It is,

from that loving space. Yeah. And.

And just to kind of jump back a little bit in terms of what you

said, I agree with you, darlin. The journey is self love. And that's what I

have found. Ifs is be is compared to a lot of different practices

or therapeutic things that I've tried. It is the most

that I have come to fully love myself. Because it's through each of these

parts that I would say even if. When we can connect with

our firefighter parts, the one that eats 10 cookies

and truly understand what it's trying to do for you and, and

organically your heart open with that compassion for it.

That's some of the deepest healing available to us because it's

easier to like the one that takes care of all the stuff, right. That does

all the shit and, and everybody thinks she's nice and great.

It's harder to, to get connect with and love

and truly love and feel compassion for the ones that get a bad

rap, that make us gain weight or drink wine or numb us

out and take us out of our present moments. We don't usually like those. Right.

We have parts that don't like them, but self loves them. All right?

And so I have found that working with my little

firefighters that are trying to numb the system and rebalance it

through motherhood really was the. Was the most

impactful. And as I was able to accept them and

embrace them and love them and see what they were trying to do for me,

I mean, they just opened up so much space and energy for

lightness and joy and being able to laugh

and because those taskmasters, right, are just pretty

rigid, pretty controlling, pretty strict. I was pretty self critical and

perfectionistic. So. Yeah. There's such beauty and

potential in us getting to know the parts of us that we call the firefighters

that want to just fuck it, you know? Yeah. I

100% identify with not putting

baby in a corner and being like, stop it, firefighters. You're wrong.

But inviting them in and I think ifs does such a beautiful

job of. I love your part. Thank

you. And how can you actually work

well in this system? Yeah.

And what role do you want now? Right. Because they had to come in always

before, as you described, and just like douse the fire. Douse the fire.

But because you've done your work and you're healing and you've done so many

unburdenings, it's like they don't need that same, that

job description needs to change because you've developed and

you've developed these skills and capacity from self to

hold your own pain. Right. To be with the stuff that's coming up. So

you don't need them to kind of fly in. Like there, there aren't alarms, like

you said, there's maybe some minor thing and then they show up and

they're not needed. So it's like, what, what else could they maybe do? No,

and it's, it's just like, that's amazing. When I was joking last

episode about like familying, like. Yeah.

You know, because there used to not be a word for Parenting, you were

just a parent, like you were a family. And then

like, then we made parenting a verb. And I'm like, can we make family a

verb? And it's like within myself there is a family.

And the self energy, if there's a family,

then that is like the perfect mom, dad kind of

model. And that is often what I'm trying to tap into with

my kids. Like not show up as a manager

or not show up as a firefighter, because I think we

show up as firefighters for the kids. Like, what are you thinking? Do you

know? Like especially teenagers or toddlers, pretty much

the same. And if I come

from the energy of like curiosity and compassion and

like there's no emergency here, then I can

parent them in a way that they feel seen, understood.

They do their own thinking. Like that self

parenting energy is so powerful, but we can do

within ourselves and then also take it out and bring it into

our family. Absolutely. I mean, that's been

my experience was that as I started to

experience more self energy and like love my parts get to

know them and understand, they could soften and

they could shift and change. Right. So my part that you know,

would sense would get in a fight, say with my son, you know, like, well,

you know, and I'd have this little voice in my head like, are you gonna

let him talk to you like that? I mean that's. I don't even know where

that comes from, but it's in my head. It's like from the culture, from these

generations. And. And my part would take that on

and now I'm disconnected from him because I'm now in this

adversarial position. My part is at war with my son. My

part didn't even know that was my son. Right. Like, and I had to. When

I went to that part, it was like some soldier, you know, showed up

as this soldier that just didn't want. I mean, it was a good part because

it doesn't want me to be disrespected. That's a good part. I need that in

my life. But it really sucked as a parent because it was

creating real disconnection with my son. And when I could say to

this part, that's my, that's my child, it didn't. Like you said, you know, sometimes

our part don't even know that self energy is there. It didn't know that

was my son. Right. To explain, well, this is our son and

he's not disrespecting us. This is his, you know, and I would, I

had this Full dialogue with this part. And do you know, darling, after that I

did that work with that one part. It never came up anymore. When my son

would get feel dysregulated, it never came up anymore. And it was

so helpful to me as a mom because that

part was. Kind of like speaking of confused, it was. Didn't have

enough information. It didn't. That's right. It wasn't updated. And

when I could give it that update and it wanted a new role in my

system, but it was like, oh, okay, yeah, we, we can shift. We

can internally shift. So it changed my inner

reactivity. And then I ended up feeling actually like a better mom

because now I wasn't kind of taken over. And it's almost like a

sabotaging. It felt like this part was sabotaging my parenting.

It wasn't. It wasn't trying to do that. Trying to protect you.

That's right. It was trying to protect me. So I had to. I could reconfigure

that understanding with that part. And it

just, it talk about like making things easier. Right.

The. The total reactivity that I was, I was juggling with. When this

part would jump in, it was awful. And it was

awful moments that made, you know, triggered other parts. Like I'd feel

guilty, I'd be self critical and so. But just being able to

do that work of shifting that, helping that part pick a new role in my

system. So it's still there. It still wants to make sure that it's setting a

boundary for me. You know, like you mentioned, in terms of gentle pairing,

our parts can really guide us about where boundaries are healthy and

good and we need them for ourselves and to teach our kids to have their

own boundaries. Right. They have part. Our kids have parts. We didn't mention that yet,

but we all do. Right. And so it's really, really helpful to have that

language, to have that lens and then to know what. That there's

so much that we can do just within ourselves to be able to

show up differently with our kids. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it is so powerful. Like I think

about how. We are. Often

trying to deal with our reactivity and

repair our reactivity and maybe prevent our

reactivity. But if you recognize that

your reactivity is coming from some

fear that you're going to get hurt or that

you are hurt and that you need to be soothed in these

firefighting ways, when you are able to go

into that root and heal it, then you literally like what you said,

you no longer are reactive and it feels

miraculous. Or like, wait, is this some voodoo

magic trick? What's going on? And it is

having an internal dialogue and a relationship with the activated

part and getting curious and giving it some

information. And then it starts to calm down and like your soldier,

stand down. Right? Stand down. That's right. Because I'm the adult and I can do

it and it can trust us. The more we connect with our parts,

the more they trust us. Yes. And the less extreme and chaotic

and controlling gives room for a lot

more fun and a lot more connection and a lot more compassion and

yeah, any. Peace and ease and yeah, just

the thing you want in your house, right, Is to feel, like,

joy and peace and ease. And it's like getting these

activated parts, you know, to find

different jobs or different ways of relating and dealing with those myths that we

talked about last week. Just really kind of letting ourselves

off the hook a little bit, decreasing some stress and pressure. Those

are really important kind of external ways that you can

relate to the world differently and then internally, how to relate to yourself differently.

Yeah, kind of this inner outer work.

I cannot wait for your book to come out. I can't. It's like

I want every person to have it. I want every person to have

a copy of no Bad Parts and then your book

next to them. And next six months, just

do all the exercises in those two books and then talk

to us six months from now. Don't listen to more podcast. Don't do any.

Anything at all except be with your parts.

And yeah, you're gonna find these freedom and

healing. Your book needs to be needed to be written. I'm grateful that you wrote

it and I know it's gonna do a lot of work.

Good work in the world. So congratulations. Thank

you. I just. I just wanted to get to the moms who. Who need it

and want it, because I know, I know they

will benefit from understanding themselves in a new way. So,

yeah. Yeah. We haven't even tapped in. Like, you talk about trauma, talk about

our own, like, reparenting, breaking parenting cycles. It is

just page after page of healing right at

your fingertips. Literally, you're holding it. You just get to, like, experience

being felt, seen, understood, and then also a

pathway towards wholeness. So thank you. Thanks for being on the

podcast. Thanks for writing the book and,

yeah, doing your work. Thank you.