There is a lot of trauma, shame, and mixed emotional response that comes with domestic violence, and emotional and legal readiness for court is paramount for domestic violence victims seeking justice and protection. Being ready to accept domestic violence, whether emotional or physical, as abuse is key to confronting trauma, guilt, shame, and anxiety associated with court proceedings. In this episode of Her Empowered Divorce, your Host, Beverly Price, talks to Joni Jones and Lawrence Jones, experts on both the emotional and legal aspects of domestic violence. Together, they discuss the emotional readiness of domestic violence victims for court to provide you with the tools you need to emotionally and legally advocate for yourself and get the protection and justice you deserve. Do not condone domestic violence by your silence. 

KEY TAKEAWAYS: 

• Why didn’t you just leave if you were being abused? This question often demonstrates a real misunderstanding of domestic violence; people are not always in a position to leave.
• The gaslighting effect is very prominent in domestic violence, and often, things don’t get better even when we stay hoping they would; these situations don’t fix themselves and often escalate into a cycle of domestic violence.
• The top form of domestic violence is not physical or assault; it is harassment. You can be abused without being laid a hand on, such as through threats, cyber harassment, or posting embarrassing things online. This is far more traumatizing than physical.
• Whether the domestic violence is physical or emotional, emotional readiness is recognizing and accepting it as abuse without making excuses for chronically abusive behaviors by an abusive partner. 

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• Everybody has individual emotional responses, but there are so many mixed emotions when you’re going through domestic violence. You can feel confused, lost, and anxious, which can be stifling and traumatizing. (Joni) 
• Victims of domestic violence are not always in a position to leave because there could be children involved, financial dependency, fear, and emotional shame. There could be legitimate reasons why somebody stays in an abusive relationship even when they know it’s unhealthy for them. (Lawrence) 
• Sometimes, when victims of domestic violence stay and hope things will get better, the other side can use that against them in court with the myth that “If I were a bad person, they would have walked out” to justify themselves. (Lawrence) 
• If you are a product of domestic violence as a child, you could adopt that as the norm because that is what you have been shown and grown up in. (Joni) 
• A lot of people feel like they are staying in a relationship for their children because they think they are providing stability for the children, but often, they also end up being victimized. (Joni) 
• Children, even if they are not the target of domestic violence, just growing up seeing parenting domestic violence heightens the risk of becoming victims or abusers themselves. (Lawrence) 

FURTHER RESOURCES/RELEVANT LINKS: 

Beverly’s personal Facebook page can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/beverlyprice365/

Women’s Divorce and Empowerment group discussion available at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/divorcerecovery

Her Empowered Divorce YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HerEmpoweredDivorce1

ABOUT OUR GUEST: 

Lawrence R. Jones

Lawrence R. Jones retired from the New Jersey Judiciary in 2017 after serving the public as a Superior Court Judge. During his time on the Bench, he served as the President of the New Jersey Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges and authored over 60 opinions on novel issues of law, including significant published and unpublished opinions on issues of domestic violence and dating violence (IPV). Judge Jones also served as a member of the faculty of New Jersey’s Judicial College and was the creator and co-presenter of the Judiciary’s 2016 program, “Harassment: Drawing the Line between Domestic Disagreements and Domestic Violence.

In 2020, Professor Jones was one of the featured speakers at the New Jersey State Bar Association’s presentation on “Economic Abuse as a Form of Domestic Violence.” During National Domestic Violence Awareness Month 2022, he appeared as a guest speaker on the television program New Mexico in Focus, presenting on issues concerning domestic abuse and legal/social aspects of Congress’s reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA 2022). In 2022, the New Mexico Supreme Court appointed Jones as the Vice Chair of the statewide Commission on Alternative Dispute Resolution. 

Jones is also a certified economic mediator in New Jersey in matters with active restraining orders in place. He presently practices mediation and dispute resolution and now resides with his wife in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where he will be teaching at the University of New Mexico this fall.

JONI JONES 

JONI JONES is a registered nurse, board certified in psychiatric and mental health nursing, who retired from the New Jersey Board of Nursing. In 2013, Joni was the recipient of the Elizabeth Kellogg’s Award for Excellence in 5 Nursing. Joni presents extensively on various social issues, including mental health, domestic violence, and children with autism spectrum disorder. 

Joni is one of the original founders of Parents of Autistic Children (POAC) and has presented before the Autism Society of America and the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts on autism-related issues. She is also a former certified developmental disabilities nurse. From 2002-to 2009, Joni worked with multiple major league baseball teams to create the first-ever "Autism Awareness Day" games hosted by the New York Yankees (the Florida Marlins, the Pittsburgh Pirates, and the (then) Montreal Expos. She was previously a certified instructor in Mental Health First Aid, has authored numerous published articles on mental health-related issues, and received a New Jersey certification in crisis intervention.

Joni is the co-author of “10 Basic Principles of Cultural Competency (BCPP): A Starting Point for New Mediators”, which was presented at the 2021 Academy of Professional Mediators program on Mediation and Autism Spectrum Disorder and at the 2021 New Jersey Association of Professional Mediators’ inaugural forum on cultural competency. She is also the author of a new children’s book, “The Invisible Hurt,” which addresses the relationship between a young child and a parent with mental health challenges. Joni recently relocated with her family to Albuquerque, New Mexico, and has been appointed to U.S. Senator Ben Ray Lujan’s Mental Health Consortium.

FOLLOW OUR GUEST: 

Lawrence Jones and Joni Jones

Link to Guests’ recent TV appearance on New Mexico in Focus, discussing issues relating to domestic violence (October 6, 2022): https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=wUQY7Gqv3FA

Point C video on YouTube: htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4eNVDtGdTs

Link to the Point C Website: www.pointcdivorce.com

ABOUT YOUR HOST:

Beverly Price is the empowering divorce coach who guides women on their journey before, during, and after divorce to eliminate pain, overwhelm, sadness, and anger and create more knowledge, skill, and peace that she experienced herself. In her 30 years of divorce coaching experience she has help thousands of women move through divorce, fully prepared with skills that enhance the results of their divorce process.

Remember, divorce doesn’t have to be a death sentence. With the right support and guidance, you can move through the process with knowledge, skills, and confidence. If you’d like to schedule a complimentary private consultation, reach out to Beverly at: 

https://Beverly-Price.as.me/ConsultationCall

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Visit https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/her-empowered-divorce/id1635143315 to access the entire archive of Her Empowered Divorce episodes, and while you’re there, please subscribe, rate, and review our show! 

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Hi, beautiful. I'm so glad you're here today. Today is something special. As a survivor, my passion is domestic violence, and October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. It's critical that we all become aware and encourage others to. In fact, I formed a divorce coalition of divorce professionals to help me

increase awareness and carry the message of domestic violence awareness and recovery. So today I have two exciting guests, Joni and Larry Jones, and it's so exciting because we're going to do a two-part series. They are both experts in domestic violence from different points of view. The first part we're going to talk about is emotional readiness.

for domestic violence victims for court. The second part is the legal readiness for domestic violence victims for court. And they may intersperse in each part, but together they're gonna form the total picture of readiness for victims in court. And I hope this helps you understand that

what the victim goes through and what is involved on their side so that you can have empathy to their process. Hi Larry, hi Joanie, how are you doing today?

Beverly, I'm doing just great. We're doing great and thank you for having us here this morning. Look forward to speaking with you in your audience.

We're doing great.

speaking with you in your office. Where are you coming to us from? We're from New Mexico at the present time. We previously lived many years in the state of New Jersey. And after the last of our six children moved out, we moved to the southwest. That's a lot of children. Yes, yes, they're all adults now, they're all doing well. And we live by what's called the Sandia Mountain. Beautiful.

We're from New Mexico at the present time. We previously lived many years in the state of New Jersey. And after the last of our six children moved out, we relocated to the Southwest. So we're like the San... Yes, yes, they're all adults now and they're all doing well. And we live by what's called the Sandia Mountain Peak in New Mexico.

Can you each tell me a little bit about yourself and what is your interest and passion about domestic violence? Larry, you want to start? Or Jonah, you start.

Well, my name is Joanie Jones and I'm a registered nurse of over 45 years. And I worked on a mental health unit for almost 10 years. And I happened to be a survivor of domestic violence and I didn't get myself in the situation just one or two times, it's more like three. And I was also...

And I happen to be a

I didn't get myself in the situation just one or two times. It was more like three. Me too. And I was also a product of domestic violence.

And I was also a product of domestic violence in my childhood. So when I worked on the mental health unit where the criteria to be on the unit was even those that had suicidal thoughts, I ran a lot of groups. And in those groups, I learned a lot about people being in similar situations. So they were either a product.

So when I worked on the mental health unit where the criteria to be on the unit was even those that had suicidal thoughts, I ran a lot of groups. And in those groups, I learned a lot about people being in similar situations. So they were either a product of domestic violence as a child, as an adult.

of domestic violence as a child, as an adult, going through a contentious divorce or even the continued after the divorce. So I just got a lot of passion, not only from my experience professionally, but personally.

going through a contentious divorce or even the continued after the divorce. So I just got a lot of passion, not only from my experience professionally, but personally. Wow, that's some experience. And you know, you and I share being survivors of multiple instances of abuse. So I'm right there with you. Larry, how about you?

Well, when I was in New Jersey, I was a judge in the family court, a domestic violence judge, presided over countless domestic violence cases and was also on the faculty of judicial college there where the judges go for trainings. And I taught domestic violence, particularly things like differences between domestic violence and domestic contra-tempts, domestic disagreements. Not all domestic violence is physical. So there are some distinctions between different types of domestic violence. After I retired from the bench in 2017,

Well, when I was in New Jersey, I was a judge in the family court, a domestic violence judge, presided over countless domestic violence cases, and was also on the faculty of judicial college there, where the judges go for trainings and of course domestic violence, particularly things like differences between domestic violence and domestic contra-tents, domestic disagreements, not all domestic violence is physical, so there are some distinctions between different types of domestic violence. After I retired from the bench in 2017,

I became a professor at Monmouth University at that time in New Jersey and developed and taught a course specifically on domestic violence and public policy to undergraduate students, particularly students who are interested in the field and potentially going into the field. And out here in New Mexico, since we moved out here, we've become involved with the coalition, New Mexico Coalition Against Domestic Violence and just recently did a training for them as well. So we've been involved with domestic violence professionally for a long, long time.

I became a professor at Monmouth University at that time in New Jersey and developed and taught a course specifically on domestic violence and public policy to undergraduate students, particularly students who were interested in the field and potentially going into the field. And out here in New Mexico, if you look down here, we've become involved with the coalition, the New Mexico Coalition Against Domestic Violence, and we've been doing training for them as well. So we've been involved with domestic violence professionally for a long, long time.

And that's why a podcast such as yours is really a great forum to bring awareness, particularly in October, Domestic Violence Month, like you mentioned, but really 12 months out of the year. It's not just in October, but all the time, there needs to be a constant heightened awareness of the social implications of domestic violence.

And that's why a podcast such as yours is really a great forum to bring awareness, particularly in October, domestic violence month, like I mentioned. It's really 12 months out of the year. It's not just first October, but all the time there needs to be a constant heightened awareness of the self-reliant locations of domestic violence. Oh, that's, it's so powerful. And some people have asked me why a divorce coach would be interested in domestic violence.

And it's not only my personal survivor experience, but that 24% of all divorces cite domestic violence as a cause. So it's prevalent among all women and one out of every three women is subject to some form of intimate partner violence and abuse. Yes, and a lot of that doesn't get reported. You know, a lot of the statistics.

Yes, and a lot of that doesn't get reported. You know, a lot of the statistics, you know, when they take a look at how many cases, for example, where there was a restraining order involved during the divorce process or maybe leading up to the divorce process. But then you have all the unreported instances of domestic violence that clearly do exist and would drive those numbers up even further.

You know, when they take a look at how many cases, for example, where there was a restraining order involved during the divorce process or maybe leading up to the divorce process. But then you have all the unreported instances of domestic violence that clearly do exist and we drive those numbers up even.

So, Joni, I think you're going to talk to us about the emotional readiness. Can you tell me a little bit about, first of all, what's going on in the mind of a victim of domestic violence? Well, everybody has individual responses, but when you're going through some of these unique situations...

Well, everybody has individual responses, but when you're going through some of these unique situations, there's just so many mixed emotions. You can just be confused. You can be in disbelief. You can have a lot of anxiety and, you know, just being lost and not knowing what to do.

There's just so many mixed emotions. You can just be confused. You can be in disbelief. You can have a lot of anxiety and just being lost and not knowing what to do. And it becomes really stifling because...

And it becomes really stifling because so many people, it turns into a trauma and a lot of people don't even realize that it's trauma in the beginning. And there can be so many triggers that there's emotional responses to. And that's why I'd like to talk about the emotional readiness to that. And, you know.

so many people it turns into a trauma and a lot of people don't even realize that it's trauma in the beginning. And there can be so many triggers that there's emotional responses to. And that's why I'd like to talk about the emotional readiness to that. And sometimes it's important to know the fundamentals to learning because we're not born with knowledge. We're...

Sometimes it's important to know the fundamentals to learning because we're not born with knowledge. We're born with the ability to learn, but if we have never been shown something, we're not gonna know about it. And so many people, they just expect, you know, that they're supposed to know something when something is happening to them and they start blaming themselves and they'll start being critical of themselves. So it's turned internally.

born with the ability to learn, but if we have never been shown something, we're not going to know about it. And so many people, they just expect, you know, that they're supposed to know something when something is happening to them and they start blaming themselves and they'll start being critical of themselves. So it's turned internally. Wow. So, you know, the rest of violence is a very emotional, stressful time. And people don't

You know, domestic violence is a very emotional, stressful time. And people don't always understand the impact of the adrenal gland response. And many people know about that fight, flight, or freeze, but they don't know what happens when that adrenal gland response is going off and there's physical responses. So...

don't always understand the impact of the adrenal gland response. And many people know about that, fight, flight, or freeze. But they don't know what happens when that adrenal gland response is going off. And there's physical responses. So this hormone surges to set off that adrenal hormone, and the heart rate goes up, the breathing goes up, the blood pressure goes up.

This hormone surges can set off that adrenal hormone and the heart rate goes up, the breathing goes up, the blood pressure goes up. People can start to see visually, their pupils are enlarging, they can get dizzy, sweating, heart starts to palpitate, and they can actually go into a panic attack. So this is when you get into those tremors, the chest pain.

People can start to see visually where their pupils are enlarging, making it dizzy, sweating, heart starts to palpitate, and they can actually go into a panic attack. So this is when you get into those tremors, the chest pain, blurred vision, and anyone who is going to a panic attack, many people feel like they're actually going to die. And also...

blurred vision and anyone who has gone into a panic attack, many people feel like you're actually gonna die. And also people with pseudo seizures, now people have heard of seizures and when you have the epileptic seizures, that's an increased electrical activity in the brain and there's a physical response to that but pseudo seizures do not come from the brain.

People with pseudo seizures, now people have heard of seizures. And when you have the epileptic seizures, that's an increased electrical activity in the brain and there's a physical response to that. But pseudo seizures do not come from the brain. They come from an emotional state and it's caused by trauma, anxiety, and history of abuse.

They come from an emotional state and it's caused by trauma, anxiety and history of abuse. So these signs and symptoms mimic the seizure, but it's referred to as a conversion disorder and it's treated not with medications like an epileptic seizure, but managing the underlying anxiety. Now, when you talk about anxiety, that's more gradual.

So these signs and symptoms mimic the seizure, but it's referred to as a conversion disorder and it's treated not with medications like an epileptic seizure, but managing the underlying anxiety. When you talk about anxiety. So when you talk about anxiety,

But that panic situation is sudden. But the thing that I like to share with the audience is the effects on the brain, because we have a right side and we have a left side of the brain. So in the right side of the brain, it's more of the emotional side. And it is very impulsive. It is very reactionary. And people respond to what they believe are happening.

But that panic situation is sudden. But the thing that I like to share with the audience is the effects on the brain. Because we have a right side and we have a left side of the brain. So in the right side of the brain, it's more of the emotional side. And it is very impulsive, it is very reactionary. And people respond to what they believe are happening. So it's like the what is.

So it's like the what ifs, the what ifs, the what ifs. And those what ifs may never occur, but the response on the body does, it's like a dream. You might think that a dream really happened when it didn't. So, but when you're in that side of the brain, there's no effective logical.

the what ifs, the what ifs. And those what ifs may never occur, but the response on the body does, it's like a dream, you know, you might think that a dream really happened, but it didn't. So, but when you're in that side of the brain, there's no effective logical decision-making. So if you don't have logical thinking, it's very difficult to make a decision. And that's why some people don't understand.

decision making. So if you don't have logical thinking, it's very difficult to make a decision. And that's why some people don't understand, how come, how come I'm going on and on and on and I can't, I can't figure this thing out? Well, this is where we have to get into the left side of the brain where logical thinking takes place. It is not impulsive. You are able to look at the facts.

How come I'm going on and on and on and I can't figure this thing out? Well, this is where we have to get into the left side of the brain, where logical thinking takes place. It is not impulsive. You are able to look at the facts, and you are able to now make decisions that are effective. And many people think that when they have these emotional responses, and whether they're taking medication,

and you are able to now make decisions that are effective. And many people think that when they have these emotional responses and whether they're taking medication or whether they're doing essential oils, meditation, things of that nature, that will help in the prerequisites of learning, such as being able to sit, attend, and focus, but it doesn't skill-build.

or whether you're doing essential oils, meditation, things of that nature, that will help in the prerequisites of learning, such as being able to sit, attend, and focus, but it doesn't skill-build. So skill-building, like I said, if you've never been shown something, you're not gonna know about it. So when you are, the main thing that I like to...

So skill building, like I said, if you've never been shown something, you're not gonna know about it. So when you are, the main thing that I like to share with people is that being aware or being mindful that you're having this change or this surge in your body, because once you are mindful to that, you can push that pause button. You can take that break.

share with people is that being aware or being mindful that you're having this change or this surge in your body because once you are mindful of that, you can push that pause button. You can take that break and there's something that's called like a 3-3-3 rule and you know that's when you're identifying three objects in your environment and then you're

And there's something that's called like a 3-3-3 rule. And that's when you're identifying three objects in your environment. And then you're also identifying three sounds in your environment and movements of body parts. And what that does is it takes it down a notch and gets you into...

also identifying three sounds in your environment and movements of body parts. And what that does is it takes it down a notch and gets you into that state where you can cross over into that side of the brain by bringing those emotional responses down. And there's another thing that I like to tell people is if you can have like a little catchphrase, which you can do this anywhere.

that state where you can cross over into that side of the brain by bringing those emotional responses down. And there's another thing that I like to tell people is if you can have like a little catchphrase, because you can do this anywhere and nobody knows that it's happening. And I like the word loving. So if I'm going to take a common word such as that and take a breath and just be like, loving, that's going to help.

and nobody knows that it's happening. And I like the word loving. So if I'm going to take a common word such as that and take a breath and just be like loving, that's going to help bring those emotional surges down and so that now you can take the time to change yourself talk. Because that...

bring those emotional surges down. And so that now you can take the time to change yourself talk. Because that fear response, when you're going into this anxiety or this panic, when you talk about fear, what's fear? Well, fear is defined as insecurity.

fear response when you're going into this anxiety or this panic. You know, when you talk about fear, what's fear? Well, fear is defined as insecurity. So what would be the management of insecurity would be security. Well, what's security? Well, the thing about security is it's something that you need to have on you at all times. And what do you have on you at all times?

So what would be the management of insecurity would be security. Well, what's security? Well, the thing about security is it's something that you need to have on you at all times. And what do you have on you at all times? You have yourself talk. But the great thing about it is fear is very unique to an individual. So like I could be scared of a bug and I could panic over it and people might not realize it because they'll say, hey, you're a million times

you have yourself to talk. But the great thing about it is fear is very unique to an individual. So like I could be scared of a bug and I can panic over it and people might not realize it because they'll say, hey, you're a million times, you know, bigger than that bug. Are you, you know, afraid of it? Fear is very individualized. So when you define your security, it only has to make sense to you. And Beverly, I could...

you know, bigger than that bug, why are you, you know, afraid of it? Fear is very individualized. So when you define your security, it only has to make sense to you. And Beverly, I could share a link with you because I did a simple fear video that you can share with your audience. It's just a couple of minutes long, but it's very powerful in helping people understand how they can get control of that fear.

I'm going to share a link with you because I did a simple peer video that you can share with your audience. It's just a couple minutes long, but it's very powerful in helping people understand how they can get control of that fear. Wow, that's powerful and such insight. There's so many stereotypes of victims. What's really the reality of the victim?

And what are some of the misguided stereotypes?

Well, in.

Well, people are just looking at the emotional responses to an individual, and they're drawing their own conclusions. So if somebody is introverted because they're sad or they're having all these mixed emotions or they don't know how to respond and then they're impulsively reacting out because they don't have control.

So if somebody is introverted because they're sad or they're having all these mixed emotions or they don't know how to respond and then they're impulsively reacting out because they don't have control, people can look at them like they're not stable. And they're not, I mean, let's face it.

people can look at them like they're, you know, they're not stable and they're not, I mean, let's face it. This can happen to anybody, but there's people that, you can be as professional or educated or have your contributions. And then when people are looking at your responses to an emotional situation, all of a sudden, they're adding to it by...

This can happen to anybody, but there's people that you can be as professional or educated or have your contributions. And then when people are looking at your responses to an emotional situation, all of a sudden they're adding to it by, you know, you're not as stable, so I can't take what you say.

you know, you're not as stable, so I can't take what you say as powerful to your contributions to the world. And then that just adds even more. And that's when we get into a lot of isolation, confusion, and when people, and this is an important thing, you know, some people might start to feel guilty when they wait.

as powerful to your contributions to the world. And then that just adds even more. And that's when we get into a lot of isolation, confusion, and when people, and this is an important thing, some people might start to feel guilty when they blame themselves, and they feel like they did something wrong, because that's what...

when they blame themselves and, you know, they feel like they did something wrong because that's what guilt is. But guilt can turn into shame. And the difference with shame is when somebody feels they are something wrong. So when somebody starts to believe that they are something wrong and they feel like they don't fit in, this is where I saw a lot on my unit.

guilt is, but guilt can turn into shame. And the difference with shame is when somebody feels they are something wrong. So when somebody starts to believe that they are something wrong and they feel like they don't fit in, this is where I saw a lot on my unit. Other people, they might start out if they have some other underlying.

A lot of people, they might start out if they have some other underlying things cutting themselves to get some relief. So there's some self-injurious behaviors to themselves, but that can convert over into suicidal ideation. And depending even what age you are, you may be prone to bullying. And bullying is another thing. I mean, we see this all the time that it's very sad.

things cutting themselves to get some relief so there's some self-injurious behaviors to themselves but that can convert over into suicidalization and depending even what age you are you may be prone to bullying and bullying is another thing i mean we see this all the time that it's very sad because people aren't really getting to the they're only looking at the outside and not

because people aren't really getting to the, they're only looking at the outside and not getting to the inside and then they have their own stereotypes and then they're making the situation worse. And we've seen, you know, so many people who have completed the task of suicide, they've taken their own life, but one life lost is one life too many. And in addition to what Joni is indicating, you know, historically one of the worst myths

stereotypes and then they're making the situation worse. We see, you know, so many people who have completed the task of suicide, they've taken their own life, but one life lost is one life too many. Exactly. In addition to what Tony is indicating, you know, historically one of the worst myths, you know, that was very detrimental to survivors of domestic violence is when they came, for example, to court.

that was very detrimental to survivors of domestic violence is when they came, for example, to court, and they'd been in a long-term abusive relationship. And then the other side, or even the court sometimes, says, well, why didn't you just leave? If you were really being victimized by domestic violence, you would have left. And it's really, people who ask that question, you kind of understand sometimes why that question is asked, but it also demonstrates

they've been in a long-term abusive relationship and then the other side or even the court sometimes says well Why didn't you just leave if you if you were really being victimized by domestic violence you would have left and it's really You know people who take that who ask that question you kind of understand sometimes why that question is asked But it also demonstrates, you know a real misunderstanding of domestic violence people are not always in a position to just leave there could be children involved

a real misunderstanding of domestic violence. People are not always in a position to just leave. There could be children involved. There could be financial dependency. There could be, like Joni says, emotional shame, even though the survivor did nothing wrong. They're embarrassed. They don't want the word to get out. They don't want to go down. They're afraid to talk to the police. And so there could be very legitimate reasons why somebody stays in an abusive relationship, even when they know.

There could be financial dependency. There could be, like Joni says, emotional shame, even though the survivor did nothing wrong. They're embarrassed. They don't want that word to get out. They don't want to go down there. They're afraid to talk to the police. And so there can be very legitimate reasons why somebody stays in an abusive relationship, even when they know it's not healthy for them. And then sometimes the fact that they stayed and hope things would get better.

it's not healthy for them. And then sometimes the fact that they stayed and hope things would get better, sometimes the other side tries to use that against them in court with the myth that, well, if I was such a bad person, they would have just walked out the door. It's really not that simple, especially if you have all of these interdependencies, financial, emotional, domestic, parental or otherwise. And Beverly, just to add to that, there's something that's called a trauma bond.

Sometimes the other side tries to use that against them or with the myth that, well, if I was such a bad person, they would have just walked out the door. It's really not that simple, especially if you have all of these interdependencies, financial, emotional, domestic, parental or other. And Beverly, just to add to that, there's something that's called a trauma bond. Yes. And that's when the abused person develops an unhealthy attachment to their abuser.

And that's when the abused person develops an unhealthy attachment to their abuser. And with that said, some people really feel that having a relationship is better than no relationship at all. And what I had seen a lot on the unit is that people misunderstand the compatibility to their sexual responses to love.

And, you know, that said, some people really feel that having a relationship is better than no relationship at all. Right. And what I have seen a lot on the unit is that people misunderstand the compatibility to their sexual responses to love. So the sexual responses, the intimacy, it feels really good, and then that becomes their definition of love. So, you...

So the sexual responses, the intimacy, it feels really good. And then that becomes their definition of love. So I've worked with a lot of people with that to differentiate the two. But the other thing that I talk about is I refer to it as a yo-yo effect. And in a relationship, you have your good times and you have your bad times. And we have coping mechanisms. And coping mechanisms, one of the two main ones is minimizing.

I work with a lot of people with that to differentiate the two. But the other thing that I talk about is I refer to it as a yo-yo effect. And in a relationship, you have your good times and you have your bad times. And you have coping mechanisms. And coping mechanisms, one of the two main ones is minimizing and denying. And then when you have that, it's very hard.

and denying. So, and then, you know, when you have that, it's very hard, people start to rationalize. So, like Larry was saying that there's a security effect that it's better than having nothing. But, you know, a lot of people hold on to those good times. And that's what they're focusing on. And they're thinking that they're going to get those good times back.

people start to rationalize. So, like Larry was saying that there's a security effect that it's better than having nothing. But, you know, a lot of people hold on to those good times. And that's what they're focusing on. And they're thinking that they're gonna get those good times back. And like I'd mentioned previously, briefly, a lot of people start blaming themselves.

And like I'd mentioned previously, briefly, a lot of people start blaming themselves, especially when you have the abuser telling them, nobody's gonna want you, this is your fault, you did this. So, that embarrassment or that shame and that lack of confidence affects their ability to develop a plan, stick to that plan and carry out that plan.

especially when you have the abuser telling them, nobody's gonna want you. Right. This is your fault, you did this. So, you know, that embarrassment or that shame and that lack of confidence affects their ability to develop a plan, stick to that plan and carry out that plan. Absolutely. And I would think that all of the swirling emotions like you talked about also leads to their

brain kind of been clogged so that they can't think clearly.

That can certainly happen. That happens a lot with the, you know, what many people call the gaslighting effect that's very prominent in domestic violence. We could talk about that a little later if you'd like. But the, yeah, I mean, you know, when somebody, you know, very often in a domestic situation, the survivor, you know, has a strong bond with the person who they, you know, who is abusing them because when they first got together with them...

that can certainly happen that happens a lot with the you know what many people call the gas light effect it's so prominent in domestic violence we can talk about that a little later if you like but the uh yeah i mean you know when somebody you know very often in a domestic situation uh the survivor you know has a strong bond with the person who they you know who is abusing them because when they first got together with them

they had strong feelings for them. That's why they got together in the first place. And they want so badly to believe that the picture of the person when they first started the relationship is still the same person. And so when Joni talks about the yo-yo effect, very often in the domestic violence field, they talk about the cycle of domestic violence, right? And that you could have an abusive situation and then the abuser.

they had strong feelings, and that's why they got together in the first place. And they want so badly to believe that the picture of the person when they first started the relationship is still the same person. And so when Joni talks about the yo-yo effect, very often in the domestic violence field, they talk about the cycle of domestic violence. Right. And that you could have an abusive situation, and then the abuser.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll behave, I'll be good. They come up with a dozen roses. And you're telling the survivor what the survivor sometimes wants or needs to hear so that they don't have to face the reality that this situation may not get better and in fact may progressively get worse. So you have situations where many people when they file for a restraining order, it's after you know seven or eight prior instances when they could have filed earlier, but they chose not to.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll behave, I'll be good. They go home with a dozen roses, and you're telling the survivor with the survivor sometimes wants or needs to hear so that they don't have to face the reality that this situation may not get better, and in fact, they progressively get worse. So you have situations where many people, when they file for a restraining order, it's after seven or eight prior instances where they could have filed earlier, but they chose not to.

for all of the various reasons or perhaps other reasons that are swirling around in their head. It's a very traumatic situation when you think about it, particularly in a marital situation, when the very person who you depended on to have a joint partnership to go through for better or worse, right? As they said, when they take their vows, now that person is the one abusing you. So you're kind of on your own against that person in a way. And that could be very hard to come to grips with.

for all of the various reasons or perhaps other reasons that are swirling around in their head. It's a very traumatic situation when you think about it, particularly in a narrow situation. When the very person who you depended on to have a joint partnership to go through for better or worse, right? As they said, when effective asked, now that person is the one abusing you, so you're kind of on your own against that person in a way, and that could be very hard to come to grips with.

You know what it's like, and obviously domestic violence is much worse than the situation I'm going to describe, but by analogy, sometimes people are in a really bad job. They feel abused at work, harassed at work by their co-workers. They feel demeaned by their supervisor or their manager. They feel unappreciated. They feel basically targeted, and sometimes they are, but they sometimes still stay in that job, even though they know that job is no good for them. And there's probably a lot better situation for them out there if they pursue them.

You know what it's like, and obviously domestic violence is much worse than the situation I'm going to describe, but by analogy, sometimes people are in a really bad job. They feel abused at work, harassed at work by their coworkers, they feel demeaned by their supervisor or their manager, they feel unappreciated, they feel basically targeted, and sometimes they are. But they sometimes will stay in that job, even though they know...

that job is no good for them and there's probably a lot better situations for them out there if they pursue them. But yet they stay at that job, some people do much longer than they should. And then when they finally get the courage to go out there and see a better life, then why didn't I do this 10 years ago? Why didn't I do this 15 years? And then they're picking themselves for not having done something about it earlier. So with domestic violence, obviously, it's much worse in those types of situations. But you can see the same type of, the same type of,

But yet they stay at that job. Some people do much longer than they should. And then when they finally get the courage to go out there and see a better life, then why didn't I do this 10 years ago? Why didn't I do this 15 years ago? Then they're kicking themselves for not having done something about it earlier. So with domestic violence, obviously it's much worse in those types of situations, but you can see the same type of struggle, internal struggle.

for people going on in that type of situation, just kind of hoping things are gonna get better. And more often than not, they don't. These situations don't fix themselves, quite frankly. And that's why they call it a cycle of domestic violence, because after the apologies and the forgiveness and everything, then it sometimes escalates to an even worse situation, because now there's a presidential history of the survivor accepting the abuse, even though they know they shouldn't.

uh... you know because now

even though they know they shouldn't, and the abuser knowing they got away with it the first time so they could do it again only at a heightened, in a heightened situation. And, Beverly, I would like to add to that because if you are a product of domestic violence as a child, you could adapt that as being a norm. And because that's what you've grown up with, that's what you've been shown, so it's not like somebody who has never experienced something like that.

and the abuser knowing they got away with it the first time so they could do it again only at a heightened, in a heightened situation. And Beverly, I'd like to add to that because if you are a product of domestic violence as a child, you could adapt that as being a norm because that's what you've grown up with, that's what you've been shown. So it's not like somebody who has never experienced something like that before.

Then we see people that if they're married and they have taken vows, they feel like if they break their vows, they have done something against religiously, by breaking those vows. So they try to do everything. The other thing that I'd like to just get into is that a lot of people feel like they're doing it, they're staying in a relationship for their children because they have this...

Then we see people that if they're married and they have taken vows, they feel like if they break their vows, they have done something against religiously, you know, by breaking those vows. So they try to do everything. The other thing that I'd like to just get into is that a lot of people feel like they're doing it, they're staying in a relationship for their children.

Yes.

you know, this image sort of like the Brady Bunch that they want to get. And they think that, you know, it's it they're providing more of a stability for the children, especially if they feel that they're not being the victim. They're not being victimized by, you know, that situation. But they are. And that's what I'd like to get into, you know, when there's children involved, because

you know, when there's children involved because they see and they feel and they know more than what people think that they do. And this may result in decreased self-esteem, depending on their age, everybody has something different. If they're in school, we can see grades go down, they don't participate in sports, they start, you know, letting go of those extracurricular activities. But there's also...

They see and they feel and they know more than what people think that they do. And this may result in decreased self-esteem, depending on their age, everybody has something different. If they're in school, we could see grades go down. They don't participate in sports. They start, you know, letting go of those extracurricular activities. But there's also something that's called somatic responses.

something that's called somatic responses. And with somatic responses, again, it's from an underlying anxiety, because when they're seeing this, their security is being impacted. And they can get stomach aches, they can get headaches, they can get all these things. And you're letting them, the doctors think that there's something physically wrong with them, but it's actually an emotional response. So somatic responses are real.

And with somatic responses, again, it's from an underlying anxiety because when they're seeing this, their security is being impacted. And, you know, they can get stomach aches, they can get headaches, they can get all these things, and you're running them to doctors thinking that there's something physically wrong with them, but it's actually an emotional response. So somatic responses are real. They present themselves with real symptoms like I just mentioned.

They present themselves with real symptoms like I just mentioned, but it's due to underlying anxiety. But when we get into older children, we might start to see introduction of drugs, alcohol, you know, looking for an escape. There is decreased coping, we can see depression. And if people, you know, don't think that 10-year-olds have completed the test,

but it's due to underlying anxiety. But when we get into older children, we might start to see introduction of drugs, alcohol, looking for an escape. There's a decreased coping, we can see depression. And if people don't think that 10-year-olds have completed the task of suicide, they have. And it's...

of suicide they have. And it's very, very sad. Yes. Because again, you have these people who are lost, they have no way out, they're getting bullied in because, oh, look at that person, even if they start crying. And then when they grow into adults, they could actually become.

It's very, very sad because again, you know, you have these people who are lost, they have no way out. They're getting bullied in because, oh, look at that person, even if they start crying. And then when they grow into adults, you know, they could actually become perpetrators themselves because this is behavior that they have learned, you know.

Yes. So, and you can have the opposite effect. You can have somebody who is very compassionate and do the exact opposite of that response, but you don't know, you know, how somebody is going to respond. But I always say, look at any change in behavior. And I think that's a very important thing.

So, but you can have the opposite effect. You can have somebody who is very compassionate and would do the exact opposite of that response, but you don't know, you know, how somebody is going to respond. But I always say, look at any change in behavior, because some might start responding very aggressively and others, you know, withdraw.

because some might start responding very aggressively and others withdraw. So, and some, and this is what becomes important is some might engage in risky behaviors. So when they start to see this change in their environment, in their security, they might seek acceptance through unhealthy relationships. Yes. And we're seeing a lot of bangs form and acceptance.

So, and some, and this is what becomes important, is some might engage in risky behaviors. So when they start to see this change in their environment and their security, they might seek acceptance through unhealthy relationships. And we're seeing a lot of gangs form, and acceptance in some individuals is better than no acceptance.

in some individuals is better than no acceptance. Just like we see when somebody doesn't want to leave a relationship because they'd rather have a relationship than not know a relationship. Right. And that's when we talk to seeing somebody maybe going into the, even smoking, you know, and all those other things. So it's important to, when you think that you're staying for the child, what the impact.

Just like we see when somebody doesn't want to leave a relationship because they'd rather have a relationship then not no relationship and that's when we talk to seeing somebody maybe going into the even smoking you know and all those other things so It's important to when you think that you're staying for the child

what the impact of staying with that child can do in the long run and affect their livelihoods. You know, in New Jersey, in the domestic violence statute in New Jersey, they call it the Prevention of Domestic Violence Act. That's the statute that governs the laws of domestic violence in the courts. And at the start of the statute, anyone can Google it and look it up, there's a legislative statement at the very beginning, and it says right there,

of staying with that child can do in the long run and affect their livelihoods. You know, in New Jersey, in the domestic violence statute in New Jersey, we call it the prevention of domestic violence act. That's the statute that governs the laws of domestic violence in the courts. And at the start of the statute, anyone can Google it and look it up, there's a legislative statement at the very beginning, and it says right there, as a finding by the legislature, that the risk to children, even if they are not the target of domestic violence,

as a finding by the legislature that the risk to children, even if they are not the target of domestic violence, just growing up seeing domestic violence, they are at a heightened risk of, as adults, becoming either victims themselves of domestic violence or abusers themselves for the reasons that Joni was referencing. So sometimes the children become very much collateral damage in the process just by being exposed to parental domestic violence.

Just growing up seeing domestic violence, they are at a heightened risk of, as adults, becoming either victims themselves of domestic violence or abusers themselves for the reasons that Joni was referencing. So sometimes children become very much collateral damage in the process just by being exposed to parental domestic violence. Absolutely. And there's a long-term importance of being a positive role model for your children.

And there's a long-term importance of being a positive role model for your children. So when you get out of a dangerous situation, the person, the child feels safe. And when they feel safe, there's clearer thoughts. That anxiety goes down, that fear goes down. And then you're maintaining their self-esteem. They're feeling more positive, energized, motivated. So positive role modeling.

So when you get out of a dangerous situation, the person, the child feels safe. And when they feel safe, there's clearer thoughts, that anxiety goes down, that fear goes down. And then you're maintaining their self-esteem. They're feeling more positive, energized, motivated. So positive role modeling increases your chances of having those positive.

increases your chances of having those positive outcomes.

Now we're talking a lot about domestic violence. There's so many other forms of abuse other than just being hit. How do those forms of abuse figure into emotional readiness?

Well, first of all, right, domestic violence is not only physical. The most obvious forms, perhaps, and most traditional, when people think of domestic violence, for example, an assault, if somebody hits another person and they have a domestic or dating relationship. But I can tell you that statistically, for example, when I sat on the bench in New Jersey, the top form of domestic violence was not assault. It was not physical. It was harassment.

well for

And harassment, you know, it was without a question, it was harassment, certainly in my experience. And, you know, sometimes, you know, harassment really depends on the factual circumstances. You can be abusive towards someone without ever laying a hand on them. There are multiple ways, you know, stalking, terroristic threats, verbally threatening to do something to someone without actually touching them. Cyber harassment.

Interesting.

calling people names, trying to get them in trouble at work. You know, if someone, let's say you had a dating relationship and let's say, you know, the woman tells the guy, I don't, it's not working, I don't want to see you anymore. And he doesn't accept that. So he starts making harassing calls at work, driving past the workplace, saying negative things about her to the boss, let's say, you know, send it, you know, trying to get her in trouble at work, posting, you know.

calling people names trying to get them in trouble at work. Let's say you have a dating relationship and let's say the woman tells the guy, it's not a problem, I don't wanna see you anymore and he doesn't accept that. So he starts making harassing calls at work, driving past the workplace, saying negative things about her to the boss, let's say, trying to get her in trouble at work, posting really embarrassing things online. So those aren't.

really embarrassing things online. So those aren't physical, but they're just as hurtful. And it gets certainly caused, in many instances, far more trauma than a physical assault, even though a physical assault, of course, should never be condemned. So you would see that very often. And also you would see sometimes a mix. You'd see a combination of both physical and emotional abuse when there's a pattern of domestic violence. But when you talk about emotional readiness, and Joni can speak about this further,

physical, but they're just as hurtful and it gets certainly caused in many instances far more trauma than a physical assault, even though a physical assault of course you should never be condemned. So you would see that very often and also you would see sometimes a mix, you see a combination of both physical and emotional abuse whenever patterns in that

You know, as you mentioned before, sometimes people question themselves, like, should I come forward? Am I going to be believed? Is it me? You know, and if it's physical, it's more obvious. You know, if somebody punches you in the face or in the eye, you know, you were assaulted. Right. You don't know what they're about. But the other types of forms are more difficult to prove sometimes, unless it's in writing, like in a text, or, you know, email, or, you know, online, social media harassment, that type of thing.

As she mentioned before, sometimes people question themselves, like, should I come forward? Am I going to be believed? Is it me? And if it's physical, it's more obvious. If somebody punches you in the face or in the eye, you were assaulted. There's no debate about that. But the other types of forms are more difficult to prove sometimes, unless it's in writing, like in a text or email or online, social media harassment, that type of thing.

But if it's just one person's word against another, while you can win those cases, it sometimes takes more to prove it, basically, than it might be in another circumstance. And you might have to concentrate more on what the history has been and not just one isolated instance of somebody called you an offensive name or something like that. And the emotional readiness comes in when you have to. First and foremost is recognizing that this is abuse.

But if it's just one person's word against another, while you can win those cases, it sometimes takes more to prove it basically than it might be in other circumstances. And you might have to concentrate more on what the history has been and not just one isolated instance of somebody called you with an offensive name or something like that. And the emotional readiness comes in when you have to, it's first and foremost is recognizing that this is.

abuse. Even if it's not physical, if it's emotional abuse, it can rise to the level of domestic violence and fit within what the whole purpose of the Restraining Order of Domestic Violence Act is, is to protect the person from a health standpoint from domestic violence, whether it's physical or emotional. You have to accept that, and some people don't. They say, well, I'm exaggerating it, maybe I'm being too hard on the other side. I'm kind of making apologies or excuses for...

If it's emotional abuse, it can rise to the level of domestic violence and fit within what the whole purpose of the restraining order in Domestic Violence Act is, is to protect the person from a health standpoint from domestic violence, whether it's physical or emotional. You have to accept that, and some people don't. They say, well, I'm exaggerating it. Maybe I'm being too hard on the other side. And like kind of making apologies or excuses for chronically abusive behavior by an abusive partner.

chronically abusive behavior by an abusive partner. And Beverly, what I'd like to add to, when there's physical abuse, there's sort of like a start and an end to that isolated event. Right. And I've been in a situation where I was even choked to the point where I had to pretend that I lost consciousness to get out of that situation. And what happened was, you know, the event is over.

And Beverly, what I'd like to add to, when there's physical abuse, there's sort of like a start and an end to that isolated event. And I had been in a situation where I was even choked to the point where I had to pretend that I lost consciousness to get out of that situation. And what happened was, you know, the event is over. And then comes that, you know, apology and that...

And then comes that apology and that minimal, that coping mechanism of minimizing, oh, okay. And that goes away, okay? But when it's emotional, that doesn't so much go away. So somebody tells you over and over again how stupid you are before nobody would ever want you. You know, I love you. I want you.

that minimal, that coping mechanism of minimizing, oh, okay, you know, and that event goes away, okay? But when it's emotional, that doesn't so much go away. So if somebody tells you over and over again how stupid you are, or nobody would ever want you,

you know, I love you, I want to. And there's a lot of mixed messages and confusion and everything else like that. But that doesn't go away. That just gets built upon and built upon and built upon. And it affects your confidence, your self-esteem, your socialization. And then you're really hiding things. So like, let's say for instance, you've got the abuser.

And there's a lot of mixed messages and confusion and everything else like that. But that doesn't go away. That just gets built upon and built upon and built upon and it affects your confidence, your self-esteem, your socialization. And then you're really hiding things. So like let's say for instance, you've got the abuser who is, you know, most likely to succeed and has so many friends and you're such a great person.

who is most likely to succeed and has so many friends and they're such a great person. And you're sitting there internally knowing the other side of that person and keeping it inside. And then you're reliving that trauma and you're not saying anything for multiple reasons, whether it's out of embarrassment, or getting to the fact that you are blaming yourself.

And you're sitting there internally knowing the other side of that person and keeping it inside. And then you're reliving that trauma and you're not saying anything for multiple reasons, whether it's out of embarrassment, you know, or getting to, you know, the fact that you are blaming yourself because there's something that you did because it's been pounding in you. Right. And that's when I get to what I talked about before.

because there's something that you did because it's been pounding in you. And that's when I get to what I talked about before, you know, where when people don't feel there's a way out and there's no relief, they don't have the skill building or the proper assistance to develop a plan to get their life back. This is when they're like, I've got to stop this. And then they internalize it. And many people take their own lives. And that it doesn't get any more serious than that.

You know, we are, when people don't feel there's a way out and there's no relief, they don't have the skill building or the proper assistance to develop a plan to get their life back, this is when they're like, I've gotta stop this, and then they internalize it, and many people take their own lives. It doesn't get any more serious than that. So how does a victim know when they're emotionally ready?

Well, a lot of people don't know when they're emotionally ready. And this is why they wound up on my unit, a psychiatric unit, and depending on who's in that unit that is helping and assisting with the referrals and the skill building and the pairing. And I know that I had the benefit because I ran a lot of groups. And a lot of people paired with me

Well, a lot of people don't know they're never emotionally ready. And this is why they wound up on my unit, the psychiatric unit. And depending on who's in that unit that is helping and assisting with the referrals and the skill building and the pairing, I know that I had the benefit because I ran a lot of groups. And a lot of people paired with me because

In nursing, in psychiatric, you can share some of your personal experiences. And then when somebody has that, they develop a bond and a trust, and they don't, they just don't feel like somebody's talking to them out of a scripted, you know, book or training. And they feel like they're not alone. And feeling like you're not alone has such a big impact to people.

In nursing, in psychiatric, you can share some of your personal experiences. And then when somebody has that, they develop a bond and they trust, and they don't, they just don't feel like somebody's talking to them out of a scripted, you know, book or a training. And they feel like they're not alone. And feeling like you're not alone has such a big impact to people.

And then when you can logically start to show them and shift them from that emotional side of the brain to the logical side of the brain, and show them that they keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, and not getting a different response, that is the definition of insanity. But when you take it out of their brain and show it on paper, what happens is they start to say, hey, you know what?

And then when you can logically start to show them and shift them from that emotional side of the brain to the logical side of the brain, and show them that they keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, and not getting a different response, that is the definition of insanity. But when you take it out of their brain and show it on paper, what happens is they start to say, hey, you know what?

I am doing the same thing over and over again, and I'm not a failure. And when you start to empower them, okay, and give them that skill building, and you help them develop their plan, and you support them in it, then you start to see the change. And then they start to feel hopeful. Then they get their confidence back. Then they get themselves back where they know who they are. And you know what?

I am doing the same thing over and over again, and I'm not a failure. And then you start to empower them, okay? And give them that skill building, and you help them develop their plan, and you support them in it, then you start to see the change. And then they start to feel hopeful. Then they get their confidence back. Then they get themselves back where they know who they are. And you know what?

They come out even stronger. And a lot of people go into the field. They go into the field. Like you have, like I have, because we are the survivors and we have bettered ourselves. We have a greater understanding and we have more to contribute. And then we become unstoppable and untouchable in that area.

They come out stronger. Absolutely. And a lot of people go into the field. They go into the field. Like you have, like I have, you know, because we are the survivors and we have, you know, bettered ourselves, we have a greater understanding and we have more to contribute and then we become unstoppable and untouchable in that area.

But also knowledge, knowledge is really important. So if someone is involved in chronic self-denial and isolation and doesn't try to obtain more self-education in the area, then they're depriving themselves of the opportunity for more self-awareness. So whether it's going to an advocacy group, whether it's meeting one-on-one with a counselor or a therapist to talk about these things.

Absolutely.

whether it's going online and there's so much more information available online these days than there was in the pre-internet days, but you've got to be careful because, number one, a lot of information online is just, you know, anyone's just putting anything up there. And secondly, if you're living with an abusive person and you're going on your home computer and searching these things, it's very common for abusive individuals to also be controlling.

uh... individuals

to be checking out things on your computer, even when you don't know that they're doing it. Sometimes they could check remotely by following just the touch of your keyboard. See lots of people, abusers do this. So if you're gonna be searching anything online concerning domestic violence, it's probably advisable not to do it on your home computer or even remotely from your network that goes into your home, but somewhere else, like at a public library perhaps or wherever it may be. But you don't wanna leave any...

to be checking out things on your computer even when you don't know that they're doing it. Sometimes they could check remotely by following just the touch of your keyboard. Seeing lots of people, of users, do this. So if you're gonna be searching anything online concerning domestic violence, it's probably viable not to do it on your home computer or even remotely from your network that goes into your home, but somewhere else. Like a library perhaps or wherever it may be. But you don't wanna leave any digital footprints.

digital footprints of that because if it's search, you could be putting yourself in more danger than when you originally started. But getting information and becoming self-educated really in any field that you're interested in, but particularly if you think you might be in a situation of domestic violence and abuse to know what is domestic violence, what can be, and also not only being emotionally ready but ultimately, as we'll talk about later, perhaps more legally ready for some type of proceeding if you're going to participate in that in the future.

that because if it's searched you could be putting yourself in more danger. Exactly. And getting information and becoming self-educated really in any field that you're interested in, but particularly you might be in a situation of domestic violence and abuse to know what is domestic violence or can be and also not only being emotionally ready but ultimately we'll talk about later perhaps more legally ready for some type of proceeding if you're going to participate.

And sometimes there's some unexpected removals of situations that become very helpful. So, for instance, I had one situation where police responded and they told me, I had three children, young children at the time, and I was told to, you know, remove myself and don't come back. And so that was my first step of taking the advice.

Absolutely.

and learning to skill build and what I can do. And being removed from that situation allowed me to take that breather and see things more clearly. Now, when I had gotten into a situation for the third time, I had such an emotional breakdown and the police responded to that. And they actually were the ones that would file the complaint because I was like, I can't believe I got myself in this situation.

and learning to skill build in what I can do. And being removed from that situation allowed me to take that breather and see things more clearly. Now, when I had gotten into a situation for the third time, I had such an emotional breakdown and the police responded to that. And they actually were the ones that were filed a complaint because...

I was like, I can't believe I got myself in this situation again. But the thing is, when he was removed from that situation at that time, it gave me time to think, how did I get myself in this situation again? And how did I do that? But the reason why is there was something that was still inside of me that I didn't lose. I didn't lose trust in people.

again. But the thing of it is, when he was removed from that situation at that time, it gave me time to think, how did I get myself in this situation again? And how did I do that? But the reason why is there was something that was still inside of me that I didn't lose. I didn't lose trust in people. I believed what I was being told.

I believed what I was being told. I was believing that was the status quo, that was reachable, and you know what? That has never been lost in me, and I'm thankful for that. But when I can go now to the logical, hey, the only thing I got in this situation, because I believed somebody who wasn't telling the truth, instead of I got myself in this situation because I'm stupid. Right. I didn't.

I was believing that was the status quo, that was reachable. And you know what? That has never been lost in me and I'm thankful for that. But when I could go now to the logical, hey, the only thing I got in this situation because I believed somebody who wasn't telling the truth. Instead of I got myself in this situation because I'm stupid. I didn't recognize these things. Here I did it again.

So it was very powerful, you know, that self empowerment within myself to change myself. Talk was the only thing I'm guilty is I believe somebody that didn't tell me the truth. It's a, it's a difference between night and day.

things, you know, here I did it again. So it was very powerful, you know, that self empowerment within myself to change myself off was the only thing I'm guilty is not to meet somebody that didn't tell me. It's a difference between that and them. Joni and Larry, thank you so much for your time today. I want to thank you for being my guest and my dogs are barking. Hold on a minute.

Well, our cat's meowing in the other room.

Well, I catched me out when you did the other one.

Let me start over with that.

Joni and Larry, thank you so much for being my guests today. Your contribution to this series on domestic violence can help so many, so many women. And I know that so many women and men are gonna wanna know more. So how can they find you and how can they get more information from you?

Well, if anyone wants to speak with us further, we can certainly put our contact information in your show notes and things like that if you'd like. And I would just say in a general sense that if you have any issues concerning domestic violence in the situation that you're in, it is important I would suggest to consider, number one, speaking with a domestic violence advocate.

Well, if anyone wants to speak with us further, we can certainly put our contact information in your show notes and things like that if you'd like. And I would just say in a general sense that if you have any issues concerning domestic violence and the situation that you're in, it is important, I would suggest, to consider, number one, speaking with a domestic violence advocate. Almost every state, I believe every state has.

almost every state, I believe every state has domestic violence advocacy programs out there. There's a lot of receiving federal funds just to get, you know, to hear a little bit of information from someone who has been knowledgeable in the field, experienced in the field. Sometimes, you know, people are really good at sizing up other people's situations, but not their own. Lots of people can say, can pick out if their friend is in a domestic abuse,

or a neighbor or a relative or a family member, they're able to pick it out in two seconds. But when it comes to themselves, it's a little more challenging sometimes. So self-awareness becomes important. Obviously speaking, if it's an emergent situation and you're immediately under the risk of violence, you can obviously go to the police about that or go down to the court and file for a domestic violence complaint. You know, and then also, if you're not in that situation but you think it could lead to that, getting as much information about,

of police resources

resources that are available for survivors of domestic violence because filing a complaint is just the start of the process. It's not the end of the process. If you get a restraining order, what's your life going to be after that restraining order? So planning ahead and getting as much information as possible becomes very important on the path to self-empowerment. And Beverly, we do have a website. It's www.pointcdivorce.com.

What's your life gonna be after that? So, planning ahead of being as, getting as much information as possible becomes very important on the path to self-impound. And Beverly, we do have a website. It's www.pointcdivorce.com. And it has a powerful video on there if there's children involved. And there's also different segments to skill-building on there. And there's, it's absolutely free of charge. There's no charge to end up.

It has a powerful video on there if there's children involved, and there's also different segments to skill building on there. And there's, it's absolutely free of charge. There's no charge to anybody. Right. Now that website doesn't really deal with domestic violence, however, it deals with sort of marital breakups and divorces, things of that nature. But it might be relevant to some of your listeners.

Right, now that website doesn't really deal with domestic violence, however it deals with sort of marital breakups, divorces, things of that nature, but it might be relevant to some of your listeners.

Absolutely. Well, all of Larry and Joanie's information will be available in the show notes. This and all our episodes can be found at herempower.com on the podcast page or on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also watch the video version on our YouTube channel, Her Empowered Divorce. Please share our story with your friends so we can reach out.

and help as many women as possible, and do not condone domestic violence by your silence. Join me for my next episode where we'll talk in October more about domestic violence. I have a free ebook that's called Why a Divorce Coach and the link is also in the show notes.

Remember, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and you can find more information and more domestic violence related podcasts at divorcecoalition.com. Until next time, stay safe and stay empowered.