In this episode of 'Sh*t I Just Quit My Job,' host Maricella Herrera dives into a candid conversation with Megan Senese, a legal marketing and business development expert who co-founded the company Stage. Maricella and Megan discuss the challenges of navigating career shifts, dealing with corporate burnout, and the importance of authenticity in business. They explore Megan's transition from the corporate legal world to entrepreneurship, the strategies she used to build her business from the ground up, and the vital role of relationship building in professional success. Megan also shares valuable insights on personal branding, navigating layoffs, and the significance of doing things differently in a crowded market. The episode ends with Megan's advice to her younger self: just hold on, it will be over soon.

About Megan Senese:

Megan Senese is a legal marketing and business-development entrepreneur and co-founder of Stage, where she helps lawyers grow their practices through authentic relationship-building and strategy. She is especially admired for her ability to bring empathy and genuine human connection into an industry often driven purely by numbers.

Show Notes

00:00 Podcast Introduction

04:30 Childhood Dreams vs. Reality

21:06 The Big Quit

23:36 Pandemic Burnout and the 2% Raise

32:25 Unlearning Corporate Toxicity

35:47 The Leap to Entrepreneurship

42:04 The Thousand Meetings Strategy

49:23 Business Development Advice

51:21 Going Unhinged on LinkedIn

55:06 The So Much to Say Podcast

58:43 Final Advice: Hold On

Takeaways:

1. The podcast delves into the complexities of personal reinvention, particularly after quitting a job that was once deemed defining.
2. Listeners are encouraged to embrace the chaotic journey of self-discovery and the uncertainties therein, recognizing that it is a universal experience.
3. A significant theme discussed is the importance of authenticity in business, suggesting that one can still be themselves while building a successful enterprise.
4. The speakers emphasize the necessity of building genuine relationships and connections rather than relying solely on traditional networking methods.
5. The conversation highlights the emotional and psychological challenges faced during career transitions, particularly in acknowledging and navigating grief associated with leaving a familiar job.
6. Insights are shared on the evolution of personal branding and visibility in a digital age, stressing the need for uniqueness in content to stand out.

The more unhinged the better.

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Maricella Herrera: I like that.

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Megan Senese: Just go

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fuck.

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go fucking crazy.

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Maricella Herrera: Have you

ever felt like the script you're

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following doesn't quite fit anymore?

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Then you're in the right place.

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I'm Maricella Herrera and I started.

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Shit I just quit my job after walking

away from a job I thought to find me?

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Forget the highlight reels.

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Here.

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We talk about the messy middle, the

doubts, the detours, and the chaos

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that come with rethinking who we are.

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Because the truth is, it was

never just about quitting a job.

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It was about questioning

everything I thought I knew.

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Hi everyone.

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Welcome to another episode of Shit I

Just Quit My Job i'm Maricella Herrera.

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So happy you're here.

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As I'm recording this, I must admit

I have not been outside from my

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apartment in the last couple of days.

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Actually, that's not true.

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I left my apartment to go

downstairs to the gym, but I

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haven't actually left my building

because New York is incredibly cold.

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so for everyone else who is not

a winter person and is struggling

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with these temperatures, I feel you.

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I'm right there with you.

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Hopefully this conversation that you're

gonna listen to today is gonna give you

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an extra oomph of energy It did for me

as I was editing it, and I, I love that.

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I actually, I love coming back to these

podcast recordings, particularly if it's

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been a while in between when I recorded

it and when I'm editing it, because

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it does give me energy.

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It does give me excitement.

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it shows this moment in time when I'm

talking to this person and, and I can

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see the things that were going in my life

and the things that I was thinking about.

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And this one wasn't that long ago.

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It was sometime in probably late

October or November that I recorded it.

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And I think I'm still thinking

about very similar things.

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I'm still thinking about personal

branding and business development

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and what that looks like.

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If I were to really bet on myself

and build a business where I am,

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the person providing the services.

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And that's incredibly relevant

because the person I speak to in

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this interview today is Megan Senese

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She's a legal marketing and a

business development expert.

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she spent a long time in.

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The corporate world and law firms working

in legal marketing until she left about

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three years ago to start her own business

with her then boss, now, business partner,

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their company's called Stage and they

help lawyers grow their practices through

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relationship building and strategy.

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And it was refreshing talking to

Megan because I think she has this.

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No nonsense, authentic.

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This is who I am way of presenting

herself that I really appreciate.

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Because it makes me think that there

is a world where you can build a

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business and still be yourself.

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and maybe I've been noticing this

internally for me, where I'm thinking,

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oh, I wanna be able to still say all

the things I wanna say that are in

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my head without necessarily thinking,

oh, I'm gonna scare everyone off and

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they will never buy anything from me.

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And

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it reminds me that the truth is you

just have to find the right people.

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You have to find the right people who

want you, who want what you have to offer.

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And that's really it.

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I is about relationships and it's.

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That's about people and personalities

and humans and that's what matters.

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anyway, this was a fun conversation.

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We obviously talked about Megan's journey

She has a really great career story,

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a really great entrepreneurs story

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and some really good advice for anyone

who is looking to build a brand or

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build their visibility

and their presence online.

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Let's go to my conversation with

Megan and I'll see you next time.

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what did you think being an adult

would be like when you were a kid?

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Megan Senese: Oh my gosh.

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What did I think being an adult

was like, oh, free freedom.

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Maricella Herrera: Freedom

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Megan Senese: Getting to

do whatever you want to do.

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And I tell that to my kids

all the time, actually.

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I'm like, yes, actually.

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it's really hard to be a grownup.

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'cause my son will ask me that.

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My youngest, is it hard to be a grownup?

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I'm like, yeah, it is.

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But at the same time, I have a lot

more control over what I do, what I

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say, what I eat, what time I go to bed,

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I'm a grownup.

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I'm, I'm in charge of those things.

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It's harder when you're a kid.

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And so we talk about that and

who you get to talk to and

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who you don't wanna talk to.

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You don't, there's not as much

choices, I feel when you're a child.

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And so.

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Freedom to do whatever

the fuck you wanted to do.

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Maricella Herrera: I think about

what I thought being an adult was

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like, and then there clearly have

been moments in my life where I'm

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like, yeah, you are absolutely wrong.

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what I saw my life be like, which

granted, I'm in the right where I should

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be, it's not who I thought, which is

what actually is my usual question,

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at the beginning, which is, what did

you wanna be when you were growing up?

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Megan Senese: I guess it depends

on what age, if I was six, I

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wanted to be a singer, like famous

pop star singer kind of thing.

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and then when I was in high school.

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I wanted to be in marketing.

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actually, I wanted to

be in public relations.

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And then I realized the jobs I was

being offered when I graduated college

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were a lot lower than what I was making

in my part-time or full-time job.

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And so that got ditched out the window.

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And so I went into professional

service marketing instead.

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there was also a hot second where I

thought I was going to do pharmaceutical

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sales because I had worked for six years

as a certified pharmacy technician at CVS.

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And so I had all this background.

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I took a certification, I put my,

put myself through school using that.

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And so I just assumed the next step for

me would be in pharmaceutical sales.

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And I had a couple of connections just

people coming into the store at the time

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that, and I was I'm looking for a job.

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And they like.

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Kind of overpromised what

they could do for me.

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I think now in hindsight, or maybe

I misunderstood or I was being

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naive and they were like, oh no,

actually I don't know anybody there.

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I don't know.

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It was very an interesting, like, like you

said, you would help me when I graduated

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and now I've graduated and where's the,

where is what, what, why have you been

122

telling you this for like three years?

123

and that didn't really pan out.

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I, nobody wanted me for a sales

position, and they just wanted different,

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they wanted different background.

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interviewing for those pharmaceutical

sales was the most stressful

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interviews I've ever had.

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so now this is 2007

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and

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Maricella Herrera: great time.

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Megan Senese: Yeah, it was a

good time to be getting a job.

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so I live on Long Island.

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I would be asked to come into Queens area,

giant hotels, where they were doing a open

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interview, like casting call basically,

and everybody for sales would show up.

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And you sat in front of a panel of

a table with three men and a chair.

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And that was the interview that I had.

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it was a very, very far

away, like you were on trial.

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Maricella Herrera: Oh.

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Megan Senese: they just drilled me.

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Asking me questions about how I

was going to deal with difficult

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situations, how was I gonna handle

doctors, how aggressive was I?

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And I'm like, I've been doing this for

six years, actually speaking to doctors on

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the phone, and I have all this background.

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And honestly, I felt like they knew that

they didn't want me the minute I walked

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in because it felt like nothing I said

was it, I felt I was defending myself

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the entire time instead of being open

and talking about what could I bring?

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I had sweated through my suit.

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It was just really bad

after that experience.

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That was it.

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I was done.

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I wasn't pursuing that anymore.

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And I was interviewing with some really

big, like Eli Lilly and Pfizer and,

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and Merck, big, big companies that had

gotten myself through and they're like,

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yeah, we don't think you have the.

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Background because you don't have a

biochemistry degree, you're not pre-med

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or I'm like, no, but I have retail

experience and marketing experience and

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I worked in a pharmacy for six years.

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So anyway, so that didn't work out for me.

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So now here we're,

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Maricella Herrera: But it's

interesting to me because.

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Like you said, you had the experience

and the way you described the feeling

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of being there and your walk out and

you're sweating and you're feel like

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you're being prosecuted something.

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I know that feeling from when I used to,

from the time where I was trying to get

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back into banking, having moved from,

Mexico, so gonna business school and

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deep down, you know, this isn't for you.

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Not just because they don't want

you, but because your body's also

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kind of telling you something.

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there are just some spaces

where it's not, I don't know.

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I realized for me very

quickly, that's not for me.

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but it's, hard.

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Right,

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Megan Senese: I just

wanted a job to be honest.

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I'm sure they hired me, I

would've been then that would

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be a completely different story.

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I would've been there.

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Right.

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And who knows,

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Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

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But who knows how that would've turned

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Megan Senese: who knows how

that would've turned out?

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I think maybe a year or two later,

there were a decent amount of

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pharmaceutical representatives

that were laid off from their

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Maricella Herrera: Yeah, that's

probably, granted the time of,

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Megan Senese: A lot of people

were laid off from their jobs.

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my career path is, is pretty

linear in a lot of ways.

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And that's why launching a business

felt so, like jumping off the

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Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

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I cannot wait to talk about that.

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But first I wanna know how you

went from pharmaceuticals to legal

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marketing

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Megan Senese: so the writing joke

with legal marketers is that nobody

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sits around dreaming of being a legal

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marketer recently, I went to a

legal marketing conference, and

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people were like, raise your hand

if this was your lifelong dream.

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And no one's raising their

hand except for one person.

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one

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Maricella Herrera: How

would you know what that is?

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Megan Senese: you don't, but

what I think what's, what's even

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funnier is that, so I started in

accounting, which is not much better.

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I started at KPMG in marketing and I

had always had this dream of being a

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advertising, it was more like advertising

and, and mad men, sexy marketing products.

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And now I'm Advertising for

auditing, not exactly the same.

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And the reason that I even

got in to KPMG is because of

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those US best news, rankings.

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So

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Maricella Herrera: Oh yeah.

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Megan Senese: top 100 places

to launch your career.

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It was in a magazine, a hard copy

magazine and KPMG was like fourth.

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And I applied to every single company on

that list, 100 companies when I graduated.

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And after I realized the pharmaceutical

sales wasn't gonna work out.

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And all those people who had

come in for years telling me

213

that they would help me couldn't.

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So I sent out paper, like paper

resumes and I applied through Monster

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Maricella Herrera: Wow.

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Megan Senese: And a lot of people

were like, who did you know?

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at.

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That's a top four accounting firm, a,

it's a big deal to get as a college grad.

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And I was like, I didn't know anybody.

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I just applied on Monster people.

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It's not a hilarious story.

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I just was not prepared honestly to enter.

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the other funny story of this is

that I had a college internship

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doing marketing at a law firm

225

and I hated it

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cause it was

227

so fucking boring.

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And I was like, well,

I'm not going to do that.

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So, yeah, I wound up at KPMG, but I had

absolutely no idea what I was doing.

230

I, I just, I probably should

have taken more business classes.

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All of my classes were in communications

and writing, and I had, it was corporate

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communications was my degree and

I just didn't know how to do shit.

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Honestly.

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I didn't know how to use Excel.

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Everything was in fucking Excel.

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I didn't know how to do anything.

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And so, I stayed there for four

years because everybody was getting

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laid off across the entire country.

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And also, I think it was 2008,

maybe a year in that we had

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to reinterview for our jobs.

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They were right sizing the company with

support staff that didn't bring in money.

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And so I was terror, I was terrified.

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I had.

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At the time, $800 a

month of student loans.

245

That was very expensive for me.

246

still would be, now, but I was just like,

I just need to pay the student loan.

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I need to do whatever it takes

to keep, to keep this job.

248

So we re re-interviewed for our jobs

and I stayed there for a quite a bit.

249

It was a salary freeze the

entire time I was there.

250

And honestly, that salary freeze is what

prompted going into legal, because I

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had heard from other people who were in

that, professional service marketing,

252

that law firms paid a lot more money.

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And that is it.

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That is really the only,

why am I in legal marketing?

255

Because I heard when in 2008 that law

firms paid more money and I had a $800 a

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month student loan that I had to pay back.

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And that's why I left.

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And then you never leave.

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You never leave.

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I.

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Why

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Maricella Herrera: What do you mean?

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Why do you

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Megan Senese: Oh, because you

get the ga you get the golden

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handcuffs as well, right?

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Maricella Herrera: Uh,

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Megan Senese: we're, we're not

making as much as the lawyers, but

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we make a lot more than anybody else

typically in marketing, You just,

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you get paid a lot and so you stay.

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Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

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So I wanna actually take a moment

before we go into your story,

272

because you mentioned something

that I think is readily relevant

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the times that we are living,

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Megan Senese: sure.

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Maricella Herrera: everyone was

re-interviewing for their it was this

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massive time of layoffs and you were in a

role that, you know, like you said, it's

277

a support role and we see those happening.

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And I wanna, wanna know if you have any

advice or any thoughts for anyone who

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is maybe not in the process, but already

nervous in case, something would happen.

280

I dunno.

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What did you do feeling that nervousness,

and I know you're very young and very

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inexperienced

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Megan Senese: I knew shit

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I don't think I I I thank

God I didn't get off.

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Maricella Herrera: can I say I love

this because I do the same thing where

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I'm just like, I don't know shit all

the time, so I feel like, oh, honesty.

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Megan Senese: I didn't know shit.

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I thank God I didn't get laid off.

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I don't know what, like, I mean,

I would've looked for a new job.

290

I, I am assuming, but I guess at this

point, if you are more experienced and

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wiser, it would, if you think that's going

to happen, which is what I did when we

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were preparing to launch your business,

is buckle up and buckle down, right?

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relook at your expenses, cut shit.

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Start saving as much as you can to

prepare for whatever that looks like.

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The other thing I would add now in my

much wiser years, 'cause now I have

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turned 40 and so there's all this

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Maricella Herrera: you yeah.

298

You just get handed the magic wand

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and they're know

300

Yeah.

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Megan Senese: would be if you're still

employed I guess, and you think you might

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get fired or might be getting laid off.

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people aren't seeing it

coming, which is the other

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Maricella Herrera: That's the problem

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Megan Senese: terrifying thing

that these huge corporate companies

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keep doing would be to try to help.

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And that sounds very like.

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Virtue signaling but if you're adding

something to other people's lives,

309

hopefully it will come back to you.

310

And so if you're helping people now

while you are still employed and

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you're still in a positive position

financially, emotionally, and you can

312

help other people, hopefully, then that

will come back to you and people will

313

remember that in your time of need.

314

And so buckle down, look at your expenses.

315

my fun thing to say is perhaps

this is a, a personal low.

316

Perhaps you don't need to have a serious

radio subscription for your garage.

317

that was something that my

husband and I had discovered.

318

we feel we're pretty in

touch with our finances.

319

And yet when we went through an

exercise of what do we actually need?

320

We realized we were paying for some

silly things that snuck in that

321

we weren't just blind to, and so

there could be things that, that

322

you then reinvest into yourself.

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So,

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Maricella Herrera: I really

appreciate that advice.

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I actually really

appreciate the helping part.

326

And I know you said it could

sound like virtual signaling, but

327

to me, helping is another, so I

used to hate the word networking.

328

I still hate It

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Megan Senese: Yes

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It's dirty, it's gross, it's nasty.

331

It's for old white guys.

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Maricella Herrera: yes, yes.

333

It's definitely gross.

334

And someone reframed it to me with

just think about it as helping

335

other people and that's it.

336

building relationships and you can

build relationships when you actually

337

show up for people and when you

actually do something for them, not

338

just connect with them on LinkedIn.

339

Megan Senese: Yeah.

340

I also think the way that networking

was described to me when I was younger.

341

Was that you would walk into this room,

or at least this is how I interpreted it.

342

You would walk into a room, everybody was

wheel in and deal in and then you would

343

leave with something of significant value.

344

Therefore your one hour cocktail party

reception that you attended was worth

345

the $700 that your firm paid for you

to go because you're just brought home

346

a million dollars of deals, right?

347

And if that doesn't happen for you and

you only talk to one person and it was

348

empty and shallow, then I would leave

feeling really like a big failure.

349

And I didn't get anything out of it.

350

It was not worth my time.

351

And like what's wrong with me?

352

And that's how most people

go and approach networking.

353

And so a lot of what I have

been able to do, of late.

354

Is redefining what networking is, right?

355

are you talking to people?

356

Are you say, Hey, I thought of you,

and you're sending them article.

357

Then all of those things actually winds

up turning into business development,

358

which really is how my partner and I like

to call it, relationship development,

359

which then can turn into business

and it's a lot more approachable.

360

All of us have relationships.

361

How do you maintain those?

362

Apply it to your work,

363

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

364

I mean, for someone who used to run

a network, you have no idea how much

365

I have through this thought exercise.

366

but I think the way you're, you're

presenting it is makes sense.

367

It's about those relationships.

368

And I know, someone who starts your own

business, that's extremely important.

369

But honestly, as anyone, just

as a human, let's start there.

370

We're social creatures and we can't

survive necessarily on our own.

371

Megan Senese: yeah.

372

Yeah, yeah, I, I didn't, I feel

like I didn't know anybody when we

373

started our business and I had been

in working for, I don't know, more

374

than 15 years, and I didn't feel I

had this network right to, to pull on.

375

And so I was terrified of, of having to

network all of a sudden and having to go

376

and become a salesperson, particularly

since the pharmaceutical companies told

377

me I was not a good salesperson right

378

Maricella Herrera: Oh my God.

379

I.

380

Megan Senese: now.

381

I had to go be a salesperson and I had

to network and I don't know anybody.

382

And so that a lot of my first year of

business The activity was really driven

383

a lot out of fear and nothing to lose,

I'm like, well, I don't have nothing.

384

We had zero clients and $0 in our bank

account for our business when we launched.

385

I mean, we put in a little

bit of money, but when I say

386

little, I mean little, right?

387

Like bootstrapped consultancy company.

388

And so I really just started talking

to people and met with anybody

389

pretty much who would meet with

me, who had relationship to legal.

390

And that wound up being like a

thousand meetings in the first year.

391

So I did the 12, 11, 10, 11, 12

podcasts my first year of business.

392

And I had almost a thousand meetings

meet and greets with people virtually.

393

'cause I did three to, it was

three to five or six meetings

394

a day every single day.

395

for the first year of business.

396

I don't recommend that, but

I did meet a lot of people.

397

Maricella Herrera: I am so

curious a, about all of this.

398

I, I, I am so curious and I wanna

get to that, but I wanna jump back

399

a minute

400

so that people follow us.

401

So.

402

You started your own business

and you're one of, you are

403

one of my people, you quit.

404

Megan Senese: Oh yeah.

405

Big quit.

406

It was a big thank you.

407

Maricella Herrera: I'd love to tell

people congratulations when they quit.

408

it's a freedom.

409

Right?

410

Megan Senese: yeah,

411

Maricella Herrera: So tell me a little

bit about how that, how you made that

412

decision, you had been in that firm for

a while, but you also had been in other

413

firms, like your career had been this

414

Megan Senese: yeah.

415

Up.

416

It had been

417

Maricella Herrera: law up Yeah, exactly.

418

trajectory up, going up and

419

then

420

Megan Senese: up.

421

Yeah.

422

So I started at KPMG, then I jumped and

collected the money and went to McDermott.

423

And law firm is very good, whether

you're on the support staff side, on

424

the marketing and business development

department, or you're a lawyer where

425

you have all of these incremental

steps up, up, up, up, up, up, Right.

426

Your, your title increases, your,

maybe your hourly rate increases if

427

you're on the, on the legal side,

on the, as a lawyer, maybe your

428

salary definitely goes up, right?

429

And so that's very attractive.

430

And for a really long time,

that was all I needed.

431

I just needed to bring in some money

so I can establish myself and my,

432

and have financial independence.

433

And that was.

434

Good for, for me for a while.

435

So on the legal side, I was a coordinator,

senior coordinators specialist, senior

436

specialist manager, senior manager.

437

So you kept up and I jumped around a

couple of times and legal is really

438

great that every time you jump to a

new firm I'd get 20, 30% more money.

439

' cause I would negotiate

the shit out of my salary.

440

That felt like a win.

441

I was doing all the right things.

442

You can also move up in AM law rankings.

443

So big firms have, you know, if you're

a top 10 American lawyer ranked law

444

firm, then you had made it right.

445

And so for me, even moving up

in ranking or down rather right,

446

the lower the number, the better.

447

So there were so many metrics that I

was able to use to validate my success.

448

I'm, I'm making more money,

I have a better title.

449

I've moved up or down and AML ranking.

450

All of the things.

451

Check, check, check, check, check.

452

Got married, got a house, have a dog.

453

started having children.

454

All of the things,

455

Two kids, I have a house

and a dog and a yard.

456

And, and so this was all

fine, all going great.

457

And I think for a lot of people,

particularly women, then the pandemic hit.

458

Maricella Herrera: Mm-hmm.

459

Megan Senese: And that was

the worst time of my life.

460

And that is even me saying I was

employed and I was safe in my house.

461

And my husband was employed

but we were a dual working

462

parent house with no childcare.

463

I had two kids under the age of four.

464

It was terrible.

465

And they were like, you know, everybody

whispers of people being laid off

466

and we don't know what's coming.

467

And so I, I am a hard worker.

468

My Gallup strength is discipline is the

first thing, which is the least exciting

469

one, but it's like I am stubbornly

disciplined, just not always great,

470

but it's particularly when you work

for yourself, I'm I am allowed to get

471

up and go upstairs and take a break.

472

But anyway, side step, I was working

473

PM in like five minute intervals

because I had a 2-year-old.

474

he, I don't even think he was two.

475

He was drinking bottles

and he had diapers.

476

it was crazy.

477

Maricella Herrera: Yeah,

478

Megan Senese: And the, I had the best

479

really when I started to get to, to

do more content, which all became

480

later foundation for this business.

481

Which, no

482

Maricella Herrera:

probably didn't know right.

483

Megan Senese: idea

484

I had put a, the firm's first podcast

and all of these things of just thinking

485

differently and glowing reviews.

486

Review time comes and they're like

five out of five on all of your things.

487

Also, here's your 2% raise, because we

488

And from a business

perspective, I understand that.

489

However, I'm a tough New Yorker

and I was sobbing hysterical

490

during that review because I was a

491

grief of the year that I had given

up to secure myself at that firm.

492

And nobody, of course was telling

me to get up at five o'clock in

493

the morning or work at until 10:00

PM They were just saying produce.

494

And I did it produce

like you don't have kids.

495

I fucking did it.

496

And it was, it was the

most intense time ever.

497

I like to work hard, but I really

did think I was going to be rewarded

498

and, and maybe some people could

say, I was, you were employed,

499

you were healthy, you were home.

500

Working from home.

501

I just thought of it differently and

502

Maricella Herrera: your

expectation, and that's

503

Megan Senese: I'm I gave

up nights with my kids.

504

I gave up, my mental health.

505

I just gave up so much because I thought

it would pay off and it didn't feel

506

like it had paid off from my perspective

507

months later, my best coworker quit,

goes and gets another job, and then

508

they give me that entire person's job.

509

So I had already felt like I was burning

out and then they said, you're gonna cover

510

this person's role for about three months.

511

Maricella Herrera: Can I just say

you were rewarded with more work?

512

Megan Senese: we know you can do it.

513

We know you can do it

514

And I was like, I don't

think I can do this.

515

And they were like, well, we're

gonna give you a lot more money.

516

And they did right.

517

The, they, the firm did a great thing.

518

They gave me $40,000 more.

519

It's not insignificant.

520

However,

521

still couldn't fucking do

two people's jobs, right?

522

And so they were like, let's just

try this out for a little bit

523

and see, and see what happens.

524

And we'll revisit in three months.

525

And the three months comes

and we, this was now my.

526

She's now my business partner.

527

But my then boss and I raised this and

we're like, this is not sustainable.

528

she's burning out, my work product

started to slip 'cause I'm doing too much.

529

And they're like, oh yeah.

530

Ha ha, we weren't asking you, we were,

we're telling you we paid you for it.

531

you're getting paid for it.

532

So that's it.

533

And I was like, got it.

534

And so I start interviewing

to leave, not to leave.

535

I was trying to leave legal,

but just anything else.

536

And at this point, now things are brewing.

537

my business partner Jen, and I

know I'm, I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm

538

trying to get the fuck outta here.

539

She's like, you

540

should

541

you should.

542

was my boss.

543

Right.

544

And at that point we also

had, we, when we launched the

545

business, there was three of us.

546

Now there's just two of us.

547

And so we were an entire department.

548

I.

549

And so basically I start doing all

these interviews with other firms,

550

higher title, more Money, and they

just keep telling me the same story.

551

yeah, you'll have to work weekends.

552

yeah, you'll have to hand out name

tags even though you have this

553

director title, all this shitty stuff.

554

And at that point that's where I was

like, I don't want to do this anymore.

555

My entire career focus had

been I'm gonna become a CMO.

556

And I was like, I don't want that.

557

I do not wanna do that.

558

And that was unsettling 'cause

that had been my entire career.

559

Focus

560

Maricella Herrera: What made you say that?

561

Because I, I understand the feeling,

but I think there's a moment

562

where you really go, like, uh, you

563

Megan Senese: S definitely interviewing

for all these other positions

564

where

565

they, I just assumed when you

became a certain title or seniority.

566

You didn't have to do

the stupid shit anymore.

567

And I did a decent amount of stupid shit.

568

I was a hands-on manager.

569

It wasn't like I was trying to skirt

doing the work, but at some point I

570

thought I would have respect or they

wouldn't talk to me like that anymore.

571

Or there's in legal marketing in

particular, when I tell people the reason

572

I didn't wanna become a CMO or the reason

I had to leave big law was because I

573

didn't wanna be 65 years old, editing

people's bios, they all go, oh my god.

574

Yes.

575

So in legal, the most important thing,

I'm using quotes for the people who

576

are listening and 'cause it's not, is

making these tiny edits to a lawyer's bio

577

online that their, their, their resume

and it's always done urgently and it's

578

always this high pressure priority that's

actually doesn't fucking matter at all.

579

we always get it wrong.

580

I don't know, it's just this

contentious thing that doesn't matter.

581

And so for me that was

this nightmare that I had.

582

And then what wind up happening

is that Jen put something on my

583

calendar on a Friday and was like,

this is a good meeting, I promise.

584

'cause I'm freaking out that

I, something bad's happening.

585

And so she pitched, imagine if we

could do the work we liked to do for

586

the people we like to do it with.

587

And that is really where the idea came.

588

It was from Jen and let's

launch our own thing.

589

let's be in charge of ourselves

and control the work we want to do.

590

And this had, this was.

591

I guess 2022.

592

now I'm having a hard time with the years.

593

but we, we worked in stealth mode for

about a year to prepare for this launch.

594

And, you know, we've been, it'll

be, we'll be in business for

595

three years in February 2026.

596

And so that's where my family and I

went through the exercise of saving

597

our money and preparing for this.

598

We couldn't get clients 'cause we

still worked for the firm, can't,

599

Maricella Herrera: I was gonna

ask if you were already plan, if

600

you stayed working there while

you were planning the whole thing.

601

Megan Senese: we did on, we

worked nights, weekends, in

602

terms of who are we, what's our

603

Maricella Herrera: Right, right, right.

604

Megan Senese: branding,

that type of thing.

605

Maricella Herrera: the foundation of it.

606

Megan Senese: Yeah.

607

getting things set up, but

we couldn't talk to anybody.

608

We couldn't.

609

Get money in the door, it would be

really hard to contact other lawyers

610

while you're still employed by this

611

at the firm

612

And so it was January when we gave

notice, and it was three of us.

613

We were an entire department, and we

all gave notice together on the same

614

day at the same time that three of us

were leaving to go form a business.

615

And I had been there the least

amount of time, which was six years.

616

Jen had been there for 19 and our

other partner had been there for 16.

617

And they were not pleased.

618

The firm was not happy.

619

And so we had, about one week to, to

clean up our shit essentially and get out.

620

And we launched two weeks later.

621

And so it was, terrifying.

622

And it's, it's taken.

623

I don't wanna say it's all undone, but

it's taken a long time to undo a lot

624

of the corporate, toxicity I guess.

625

And, and now here, here we are.

626

Here we are.

627

Maricella Herrera: Can you gimme

an example of what you mean

628

with the corporate toxicity?

629

What has been something that you've

been trying to leave behind, that

630

you still kind of wrestle with?

631

Megan Senese: Yeah.

632

The what's considered professional

633

Maricella Herrera: Oh,

634

Megan Senese: is something I'm still

undoing, proving your worth by how

635

much you produce at every minute is

something that I am still, undoing,

636

particularly now that as a consultant,

we're, I'm trying to get a wave with

637

people paying me by the hour, but

that's a whole new ball game for me.

638

I was always salaried and now if

I don't work, you don't get paid.

639

Right.

640

Obviously.

641

you start to feel that time

pressure in a way that I hadn't

642

felt it before and has made

643

me realize and appreciate my poor lawyer

clients who are being, who are billing

644

in these tiny six minute intervals.

645

Right.

646

So there's definitely new found

appreciation for, for that.

647

just undoing a lot of my

thinking in terms of rest

648

Maricella Herrera: Mm.

649

Megan Senese: and how I show

up and the things that I share

650

on LinkedIn and I'm still undoing.

651

I'm still undoing.

652

Maricella Herrera: When you say the

things that you share on LinkedIn,

653

do you mean that you're being more

open, more you more that balance?

654

Megan Senese: Yeah.

655

So.

656

The year before we launched, I started

to kick up my visibility on LinkedIn,

657

but still within the constraints within

the firm 'cause I still employed there.

658

And law firms typically, most corporations

are typically on the more just

659

conservative side, just kind of vanilla.

660

You don't say anything about anything.

661

I spent a lot of time talking about

my LinkedIn profile and presence

662

because it has awarded me with a lot

of opportunities and it has awarded me

663

with learning and meeting new people.

664

there's, there's just no way I would

be able to meet the amount of people

665

if it hadn't been for LinkedIn.

666

With that being said, I also would not

have met people who were aligned with me

667

if I didn't start to peel back some of the

668

Maricella Herrera: Hmm.

669

Megan Senese: corporate.

670

Armor and start to really say things.

671

And that's what I started to do.

672

I started to be more vocal in

mostly sharing negative experiences,

673

unfortunately, that had happened to me or

that I had experienced as a professional

674

woman working in a corporate setting.

675

And the intent was to share so that

other people didn't feel so alone.

676

And my intent of sharing those

stories was not just to, not

677

always to shit on big law.

678

There's plenty of, there's plenty of

shitting happening, but to also have

679

a voice for those who felt they were

silenced and couldn't speak up because

680

they're still employed by those firms and

for whatever reason have to stay there.

681

Right.

682

I didn't have to, I don't

have to do that anymore.

683

I work for myself and the

further away I get from that.

684

Quit date, the more vocal

I am about a lot of things.

685

Maricella Herrera: that makes sense.

686

And I think that's a very

important reason for doing things.

687

that's why I did started this thing

to talk about things that people

688

may think, but they can't say.

689

Megan Senese: right?

690

Yeah.

691

Maricella Herrera: you weren't thinking

of starting your own business though.

692

hadn't said, let's do

this, would you have No.

693

Megan Senese: No.

694

Never.

695

I never, I never ever

thought about that, ever.

696

And the the funny thing is that, so

I was interviewing for a, a legal

697

tech company in a marketing role.

698

It was like sort of sales, but not really.

699

And I had made it like the third round.

700

I was really excited and I had put

some other salary number down and.

701

Even lower than what I was

making, which I thought was okay,

702

this still seems reasonable.

703

And what they offered me

was even half of that.

704

And so I was like, that's

fine, I'll take it.

705

It was probably 75% of what

I had asked for, like lower.

706

And they were like, yeah, we really

don't think you're gonna stay here.

707

the money's

708

Maricella Herrera: With

709

Megan Senese: right.

710

And what's really funny is that

they passed and then five, six

711

months later, I quit for $0.

712

Right.

713

So I always come back to that, that it's

this funny story of they're like, we

714

don't think that you're gonna be okay

with 75% less of what you're making.

715

And I'm like, no, I, I swear I'll be fine.

716

And then, five, six months later

I quit for basically no zero.

717

'cause we had no clients.

718

Maricella Herrera: Well, 0% of what you're

making and a hundred percent of your time.

719

Megan Senese: Yeah.

720

Right.

721

Mm-hmm.

722

Maricella Herrera: there's a few

things that you said that I wrote down.

723

The hit me one was the grief of the

year you had given up during COVID,

724

and I think that the way you phrased

it was so powerful because it's, we

725

don't, I mean, I know I talk about

grief when I left and how that happened.

726

But we are dealing with grief of other

things that we are leaving on the table

727

or removing from ourselves that we don't

see it at the time we see it later.

728

Megan Senese: Yeah.

729

Yeah.

730

Maricella Herrera: Because you had gone

through that, do you think you had any

731

grief after leaving or during that first

year, you were just like, I'm ready.

732

Megan Senese: I was ready.

733

And,

734

Maricella Herrera: You

735

Megan Senese: Jen and I just saw

each other, she, she lives on the

736

West coast, so we don't get to see

each other physically in person

737

that much on video and stuff.

738

But so we just saw each other last week

and we always are talking about I can't

739

believe it's gonna be three years.

740

it's in this So wild how fast time

goes, how slow it also has felt it

741

feels we've been doing this forever,

but then when I tell people it's

742

only been, two and a half years,

they're like, oh, it's not that long.

743

Right?

744

It, so it's depends on

how you're viewing it.

745

But our whole story is I was not,

there's no way I would have been ready.

746

Any earlier had she asked or had

come up with this idea, Because she

747

sometimes said, well, I was always

thinking about maybe starting something.

748

I just didn't know what it was.

749

And may, it would come up maybe

five years ago, and then it went

750

away and all these thoughts.

751

And I'm like, if you even asked me five

years ago, prior to when she asked, but

752

there's no way I wouldn't have been ready.

753

And so by the time she asked, it was

a Friday, I was like, yes, I'm in.

754

She was like, well, maybe

you wanna think about it.

755

take, take the weekend and think about it.

756

I'm like, no, no.

757

no, I'm good.

758

Let's, let's do let's do this.

759

the timing just worked out and

that's how things go sometimes.

760

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

761

Well you had gone through a lot

of the process, yourself if you

762

were interviewing, if you were

doing, you know, so you were ready.

763

And that's really cool that you

ended up working with someone

764

that you were working with.

765

to me, my dream, and I still say

it, is I would like to grab my

766

former Elevate people and go work

together with them somehow, someday,

767

Megan Senese: it's, it's still

a tricky transition, right?

768

we went from, she was boss and I

was employee to now we're 50 50.

769

Well, and there was three of

us, and now there's two of us.

770

So 50 50 business partner We were always

pretty flat in terms of how we approached

771

stuff before we launched the business.

772

But just even a slight shift of being

like, she's not my boss anymore.

773

And I'm the boss now, right?

774

we're both bosses and

what does that look like?

775

And how much am I going to push back on

something Where in the past I would not

776

have, I would push back a little bit.

777

I mean, I'm not a shrinking

violet, but I would've pushed back.

778

And then if boss, after a couple of

times says, no, then you retreat.

779

Right?

780

Whereas now I'm like, Hmm, I don't

have to retreat anymore technically.

781

Right?

782

And so what does that look like?

783

Has been a, a new experience

for the both of us.

784

And what thing are you gonna be

really aggressively pushing where

785

you fundamentally disagree with and

what thing is not really worth it?

786

what battles are you fighting?

787

Right?

788

And so that's an adjustment.

789

That's an adjustment

790

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

791

that makes sense.

792

And I also think you've probably another

big adjustment considering you've started

793

as three and then ended up as two.

794

Megan Senese: Yeah.

795

So after the first year, our, our

other partner decided to go back

796

in house for a full-time salary.

797

'cause it, the first year of startup,

it was like, luckily we, we made money.

798

It just

799

Maricella Herrera: great

800

Megan Senese: amount of

money that we were used to.

801

And sales can be lumpy, right?

802

up and down.

803

And that's hard for some

people to, to get used to.

804

And it requires your entire family to

revisit how you're spending and what

805

does your life look like and what are you

willing to sacrifice or not sacrifice.

806

And you get to really understand

people's motivations and, and

807

feelings around salary and money and

worth and investments and spending.

808

it sounds great to go work with

your colleagues, but there's a lot

809

of shit that comes with it too.

810

a lot shit that comes with it.

811

And you have to, from my perspective.

812

Really know who you are and how

you're showing up in those moments

813

that are tense, that impacts not

just you, but your whole fucking

814

family as it comes to business.

815

Right?

816

It's, it's a lot.

817

It's, it can be really, it can be

really intimate, particularly for

818

people who are saying it's all business.

819

And that was never our intention.

820

We wanted it to be close and how close

is for the company to decide, right?

821

Maricella Herrera: Right.

822

Megan Senese: So yeah, that

was a big transition too.

823

it's not just like smooth sailing,

launched a company and off into the

824

sunset we went, there's going to be chop.

825

But how you come through that chop is.

826

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

827

I want to understand what was

going through your head as you

828

were doing 11 podcasts and a

829

thousand meet and greets

830

Because I have a theory, but

I want, I wanna from you.

831

Megan Senese: I don't know if I

actually was thinking that much.

832

the podcast.

833

I saw it as a way to get the

message out and raise visibility.

834

So I think there was a lot of marketing.

835

profile, branding, awareness that I was,

obsessed with, which I still kind of am.

836

Right?

837

I love, I love, I love the doing the,

the marketing business development.

838

That is my

839

Maricella Herrera: I

840

mean, right.

841

Megan Senese: I'm like, if I could just

do that full time, I love that part.

842

And so there, I think there's that piece.

843

I was thrilled to have anybody

who wanted to talk to me.

844

So there was that, right?

845

Getting to share my message,

the thousand meet and greets

846

snowballed out of its of control.

847

we looked at, okay, we

launched and then then what?

848

We had nothing to do.

849

We had nothing to do.

850

And so it, took, took to LinkedIn,

started sending notes to people.

851

I spent that year before kind of building

it up 'cause I was terrified that when we.

852

Became a vendor that no one would wanna

talk to me, and that I was going to

853

then turn into this sleazy salesperson

was trying to sell people shit.

854

And that, no, I, I was I don't

really know how to do this.

855

Even though my entire career

had been telling lawyers

856

how to build their book, and

857

I had grown up thinking that it was

really a big, bad, scary business

858

world out there because that is

the messaging that I had got.

859

We were not allowed to talk to our

lawyers' clients, and we didn't

860

do business development in that

way was everything was behind

861

the scenes in a law firm setting.

862

So there's definitely these moments

where I'm like, well, maybe I actually

863

don't know business development because

I have these very senior lawyers who

864

are millionaires telling me, no, no, no.

865

You can't just reach out to a

client and say, Hey, how are you?

866

What's going on?

867

No, that's gotta be much more.

868

Sophisticated and substantial

and value add and legal expertise

869

has to be in every message.

870

And I would spend the

time, oh, they must know.

871

And I would spend all this time

drafting up shit for them to send.

872

And there was this this moment of me

being like, well, I don't have anything

873

to say right now because I just launched.

874

Other than like, do

you wanna meet with me?

875

I guess, I don't know.

876

And I started being more vocal

and authentic on LinkedIn.

877

And so I started sending people notes

like, Hey, I was thinking of you.

878

Hey, I'd love to learn more about

you, loved your LinkedIn content.

879

Maybe we should set up a meet and greet.

880

And people started saying Yes, but

like a hundred percent acceptance rate.

881

And so that was the big click for me

is that actually maybe that worked.

882

The substantive, very substantial legal

expertise maybe that worked for them.

883

It didn't really seem it was working all

the time, but maybe it worked for them.

884

That doesn't work for me and I need

to go to market by being a real person

885

and being curious and I'm just gonna

ask people like, Hey, what's up?

886

You wanna chat?

887

And people were like, okay.

888

And that was literally the end of it

and, and that is now, that really has

889

then shifted and shaped how I provide

business development support for

890

lawyers who hire me now, which is you

don't have to do, there's a time and

891

place for substantive legal expertise.

892

It doesn't have to always live on

LinkedIn and it doesn't have to

893

live in every single interaction

that you have with people.

894

You can just reach out and be

like, what you wrote was cool.

895

And I wanna be friends

896

the end.

897

Maricella Herrera: I love

898

Megan Senese: And that's how a

thousand meetings came to me.

899

Now I have to gate a little bit more,

but that's, that's how it happened.

900

'cause I was like, who am

I to say no to a meeting?

901

I'm gonna fucking say yes to everything.

902

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

903

Megan Senese: But what's your theory?

904

I'd love to hear.

905

Maricella Herrera: Well so my theory

I've comes from, I've been thinking

906

a lot about busyness 'cause I feel

so busy all the time and I've been

907

working on some big personal projects.

908

Not anything, business I just ran Chicago

909

Marathon

910

Megan Senese: Oh, congratulations.

911

Maricella Herrera: thank you.

912

and so.

913

I kept being like, I feel like I'm,

I, I'm dropping the ball everywhere

914

'cause I'm also doing all these things,

but then reading some articles and

915

reading some books and talking to

people, I'm realizing that a lot of,

916

of doing a lot comes from the fact that

I don't necessarily know what to do.

917

Megan Senese: yeah.

918

Maricella Herrera: And so I'm just

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing.

919

Because that's better than, than not.

920

And so I thought that it might

be somewhere along those lines

921

of sometimes you're either scared

of am I doing the right thing?

922

So you just go and

923

Megan Senese: Mm-hmm.

924

Maricella Herrera: or you don't know

what to choose, which is the case for me.

925

I keep doing, to keep my options open.

926

and so I was, I was wondering if

it had something to do with that

927

Megan Senese: Yeah.

928

I didn't know what to do.

929

I know what to do, and I was at

least, I'm not gonna just get

930

into my office and at my desk.

931

At least I have five

meetings scheduled for today.

932

Feels like a good day.

933

Maricella Herrera: Feels productive.

934

Megan Senese: Feels productive.

935

The more meetings the better.

936

Right?

937

look at me.

938

I'm

939

Maricella Herrera: That's how

we've been conditioned to think

940

Megan Senese: I'm doing, great.

941

Yeah.

942

So

943

Maricella Herrera: in the sense of

business development, I actually do think

944

the more meetings the better, probably.

945

Megan Senese: I, I think in

hindsight there's probably some

946

I didn't need to meet with, but.

947

You don't really know where things to hit.

948

You don't know who's thinking of you.

949

I mean, a good business developer

would be like, well, you should

950

really prioritize and, and put them in

waves and there's all of this stuff.

951

And that's true.

952

However, the story I love to tell

is that there was a meet greet

953

I had probably two and a half

years ago, very, very beginning.

954

They wanted me to sell something

that they had to the firms that

955

I must have relationships with.

956

And I was I don't fucking have

relationships with anybody right now.

957

Like, no.

958

And the thing they wanted me to sell would

have, in their words, totally cannibalize

959

my brand new business that I just

960

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

961

Great.

962

Megan Senese: And I was

like, why are, I was actually

963

Really mad about this meeting.

964

in that instance I was really

fucking pissed and I was why

965

would you even reach out to me?

966

what?

967

Pissed.

968

So I didn't do any of the things that a

good business developer would tell you.

969

I didn't follow up, so I don't

think I was particularly nice.

970

I, I just ignored that that meeting

happened and was pissed about it

971

until literally like two and a half

years later, that person referred

972

me to a CMO of a law firm, and now

I am coaching six of their lawyers.

973

And so you just don't know, right?

974

to me that was a waste of time

and well, how stupid was that?

975

And dah, dah dah.

976

Now, I think having the experience,

I probably, if that instance came

977

up again where somebody wants

me to sell some thing, I would.

978

Be more, I'm more open to it well,

what does this look like and what is

979

it that you're actually asking me?

980

And how do you see my business

fitting in or not fitting in?

981

Right.

982

There's a lot more questions and

curiosity that I have now versus then.

983

So you just don't know.

984

Maricella Herrera: you just dunno.

985

Megan Senese: a thousand

meetings is a lot.

986

I don't recommend that.

987

Maricella Herrera: It's a lot.

988

I'm very

989

impressed as we're talking about business

development and those, I wanna know what

990

is your top advice or what, what advice

would you give to someone who's starting

991

their own thing particularly where they

have to be, and I don't like saying

992

the product, but you are the service.

993

You are providing the services.

994

Megan Senese: so maybe it was a few

weeks ago, somebody asked me what's

995

your end game with your business?

996

what's

997

what's your end game what

are you trying to do here?

998

are you trying to sell?

999

I'm like, my business isn't worth anything

without me and Jen in it right now.

00:49:51,922 --> 00:49:54,312

At least so for someone

who's just starting out.

00:49:55,022 --> 00:49:56,282

I used words like obsessed.

00:49:56,342 --> 00:50:00,512

I think you need to be obsessed with

your whatever it is that you're doing.

00:50:00,662 --> 00:50:03,992

You have to be obsessed,

hopefully in a good way.

00:50:03,992 --> 00:50:06,032

Not in a bad way, but a little obsessed.

00:50:06,632 --> 00:50:09,842

I think about the business all the

time, what else can I be doing?

00:50:10,542 --> 00:50:13,542

But I also try to think about

it from what, like when I

00:50:13,542 --> 00:50:14,832

say what else can I be doing?

00:50:14,832 --> 00:50:16,992

I'm not looking outward,

I'm looking inward.

00:50:16,992 --> 00:50:21,052

And so what I mean by that

is you are gonna get hung

00:50:21,052 --> 00:50:22,492

up on what other people say.

00:50:22,642 --> 00:50:24,382

Right now I'm in a lot of messaging.

00:50:24,382 --> 00:50:25,732

Were like, you should be scaling.

00:50:25,732 --> 00:50:26,602

You're three years in.

00:50:26,602 --> 00:50:29,242

You need to scale and you

need to do this and do that.

00:50:29,242 --> 00:50:32,552

And, your podcast should be doing d

different things and you should be, you

00:50:32,552 --> 00:50:33,812

should, should, should, should, should.

00:50:34,442 --> 00:50:41,152

And if you are the sole owner or

you the decision maker, it's like

00:50:41,152 --> 00:50:43,132

such dumb, like, such cliche.

00:50:43,132 --> 00:50:45,282

But I, I really do think do it different.

00:50:45,782 --> 00:50:48,782

trust your gut, there's so much

content that I've put out that.

00:50:49,322 --> 00:50:51,482

When I had asked people

like, what do you think?

00:50:51,482 --> 00:50:52,472

Do you think I should write this?

00:50:52,472 --> 00:50:53,222

They were like, no.

00:50:53,222 --> 00:50:56,162

And those posts that have done the

best, the ones that people said you

00:50:56,162 --> 00:50:57,632

shouldn't do it, and they did it anyway.

00:50:58,449 --> 00:51:01,659

I think the way to stand

out is to do it differently.

00:51:01,689 --> 00:51:04,539

And I don't know what that looks

like for each person's business, but

00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:10,279

the more that we are all going to be

using AI tools and everybody's using

00:51:10,279 --> 00:51:14,419

ChatGPT particularly on LinkedIn, so

everyone's content sounds the same.

00:51:15,219 --> 00:51:18,749

I just keep leaning into how

much more unhinged can I become?

00:51:20,284 --> 00:51:23,369

And this, this was a reason though

because someone was copying my content.

00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:25,774

it of seemed very, has that happened

00:51:25,774 --> 00:51:25,834

to

00:51:25,889 --> 00:51:26,509

Maricella Herrera: You are not.

00:51:26,729 --> 00:51:28,709

No, but I've heard of several people.

00:51:29,149 --> 00:51:30,389

I, it hasn't happened

to me because I'm not.

00:51:31,099 --> 00:51:32,064

On LinkedIn that much,

00:51:32,134 --> 00:51:34,854

Megan Senese: Yeah, so it, it

felt it was close enough that I'm

00:51:34,854 --> 00:51:35,964

didn't I just write that yesterday?

00:51:35,964 --> 00:51:37,554

And they were like, in the same space.

00:51:37,884 --> 00:51:42,004

They're doing the same things, did, maybe

I didn't have original thought enough

00:51:42,004 --> 00:51:43,474

and that's why I was sounded the same.

00:51:43,474 --> 00:51:46,564

Maybe they, maybe they saw it and were

influenced by it and then wrote about it,

00:51:46,564 --> 00:51:48,184

but it just felt I was being copied by it.

00:51:48,514 --> 00:51:51,214

The same couple of people

pretty consistently.

00:51:51,914 --> 00:51:53,144

This was probably about a year ago.

00:51:53,204 --> 00:51:56,174

And then I just had this like, I'm

gonna post something what I thought

00:51:56,174 --> 00:52:00,874

was wild and unhinged and was laughing

my ass off, posting it, being like,

00:52:00,874 --> 00:52:02,284

good luck trying to copy that shit.

00:52:02,314 --> 00:52:03,484

'cause that's fucking crazy.

00:52:03,574 --> 00:52:05,344

And I posted it and it did well, right?

00:52:05,344 --> 00:52:08,084

And so then that's kind of redirected.

00:52:08,984 --> 00:52:11,354

How are you going to market

that's going to stand out.

00:52:11,714 --> 00:52:15,044

It doesn't have to be wild and obscene

every time, but like, how are you

00:52:15,044 --> 00:52:16,844

going to go to market that's different?

00:52:16,874 --> 00:52:19,064

How are you going to talk

to people That's different.

00:52:19,514 --> 00:52:22,194

How are you gonna show people you

care when everything is just like.

00:52:22,364 --> 00:52:22,444

Maricella Herrera: Hmm.

00:52:23,459 --> 00:52:25,049

Megan Senese: A systematized approach.

00:52:25,229 --> 00:52:27,899

So that would, that

would be my, my advice.

00:52:28,319 --> 00:52:29,579

The more unhinged the better.

00:52:31,244 --> 00:52:32,144

Maricella Herrera: I like that.

00:52:32,369 --> 00:52:32,609

Megan Senese: Just go

00:52:32,609 --> 00:52:32,879

fuck.

00:52:33,209 --> 00:52:34,019

go fucking crazy.

00:52:34,844 --> 00:52:35,414

Maricella Herrera: I like that.

00:52:35,414 --> 00:52:37,124

honestly, you're right.

00:52:37,124 --> 00:52:39,044

Everything sounds very similar.

00:52:39,344 --> 00:52:43,424

One of the reasons I hate LinkedIn is

because of that and, and I probably

00:52:43,424 --> 00:52:47,954

shouldn't hate LinkedIn because I

know it is where a lot of business

00:52:48,074 --> 00:52:56,384

development happens, but to me it,

anxiety, it produces both to, I

00:52:56,384 --> 00:53:02,264

don't know if it's just my mentality

of comparison or it's just, I just

00:53:02,264 --> 00:53:03,674

don't deal well with social media.

00:53:03,674 --> 00:53:04,124

I just don't

00:53:04,174 --> 00:53:04,534

Megan Senese: Yeah.

00:53:04,894 --> 00:53:05,224

Well.

00:53:05,614 --> 00:53:09,124

The, and one of the things that I

tell my more introverted or hesitant

00:53:09,124 --> 00:53:12,544

lawyers is that you don't always have

to post to be on LinkedIn, right?

00:53:12,604 --> 00:53:17,674

There are lots of people who are lurkers

who are in the background, but so

00:53:17,674 --> 00:53:22,144

many opportunities of somebody who got

connected to someone and then says, oh,

00:53:22,204 --> 00:53:23,914

Maricella and Megan should meet, right?

00:53:23,914 --> 00:53:24,064

Maricella Herrera: yeah,

00:53:24,779 --> 00:53:28,349

Megan Senese: all of those

things come happen offline

00:53:28,499 --> 00:53:30,539

or in the, in the messaging.

00:53:30,569 --> 00:53:32,579

And then you take the messaging

and you go into email.

00:53:32,579 --> 00:53:35,909

And so the point of using

LinkedIn is not to become a social

00:53:35,909 --> 00:53:37,709

influencer or to become a thought.

00:53:37,739 --> 00:53:38,099

yes.

00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:38,849

A thought leader, sure.

00:53:38,969 --> 00:53:43,589

But for me it's to try to build a

community around what I'm offering

00:53:43,889 --> 00:53:49,889

and find other people who are aligned

with me and that I'm aligned with and

00:53:49,889 --> 00:53:52,349

then talk to them privately, right?

00:53:52,349 --> 00:53:53,819

and so that's how I approach it.

00:53:53,819 --> 00:53:58,769

Post the content, get some engagement,

build a community in the comments, move

00:53:58,769 --> 00:54:00,509

the comments into a private message.

00:54:00,869 --> 00:54:06,039

start to build a relationship and

then take it off off LinkedIn, which

00:54:06,039 --> 00:54:10,479

LinkedIn doesn't want you to do,

and have real life communication

00:54:10,689 --> 00:54:11,859

and relationships with people.

00:54:11,919 --> 00:54:14,079

And that's the start that

that's a great way to get in

00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:15,369

front of people pretty quickly.

00:54:16,089 --> 00:54:16,299

Maricella Herrera: yeah.

00:54:16,299 --> 00:54:17,019

that makes sense.

00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:18,549

That's a better way of thinking about it.

00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:22,509

I, I get very overwhelmed because

everyone, and it is the shoulds.

00:54:22,539 --> 00:54:27,189

It's the shoulds because everyone is like,

you should be posting all these things.

00:54:27,189 --> 00:54:29,559

You should be talking about this

other thing you're doing should be

00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:31,479

posting the podcast on everywhere.

00:54:32,019 --> 00:54:37,779

Which I do, but also not a

lot because I love doing this.

00:54:38,019 --> 00:54:40,389

not the rest of the things that I love.

00:54:40,484 --> 00:54:40,774

Megan Senese: yeah.

00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:43,689

Well, and that, that can be your

business development approach too.

00:54:43,689 --> 00:54:47,139

It's like hone in on the things you

like to do and fuck everything else.

00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:52,089

Maricella Herrera: I like it.

00:54:52,089 --> 00:54:56,769

I think, I think more people

need to, need to embrace your,

00:54:56,979 --> 00:54:58,749

Megan Senese: Don't do, don't,

don't listen to everybody else.

00:54:58,749 --> 00:54:59,499

Don't listen to them.

00:54:59,499 --> 00:55:01,929

If they're they're gonna tell you,

take your podcast on the golf course.

00:55:01,929 --> 00:55:02,889

no, you're not gonna do that.

00:55:03,699 --> 00:55:04,779

Maricella Herrera: true, true.

00:55:05,749 --> 00:55:06,769

Tell me about your podcast.

00:55:06,769 --> 00:55:08,089

How has it been to be doing it?

00:55:08,089 --> 00:55:08,779

Because it's been

00:55:09,394 --> 00:55:11,914

Megan Senese: It's been a, it'll

a, it'll be almost a year in

00:55:12,169 --> 00:55:12,559

Maricella Herrera: Yeah.

00:55:12,652 --> 00:55:16,012

Megan Senese: our podcast is called So

Much to Say A Legal Podcast for people.

00:55:16,327 --> 00:55:18,127

Maricella Herrera: It's

very good, even for known

00:55:18,532 --> 00:55:19,372

Megan Senese: Yeah, thank you.

00:55:19,372 --> 00:55:21,832

We try to have a, a,

a couple of different.

00:55:22,507 --> 00:55:23,017

Themes.

00:55:23,017 --> 00:55:27,637

Mostly it's focused on the humanity within

the legal industry, but we also focus

00:55:27,637 --> 00:55:30,607

on just being a corporate professional.

00:55:30,667 --> 00:55:34,207

And there's also just like

general, like if you are a person,

00:55:34,312 --> 00:55:34,732

Maricella Herrera: Mm-hmm

00:55:35,677 --> 00:55:37,267

Megan Senese: if you're a

person, then you should like it.

00:55:37,497 --> 00:55:42,927

we've, we've had some really nice

guests on, we tow the line a little

00:55:42,927 --> 00:55:46,177

bit, with talking a little bit about

unlearning, unlearning silence.

00:55:46,177 --> 00:55:48,037

We had something on the,

00:55:48,082 --> 00:55:49,042

Maricella Herrera: Oh, was Elaine on?

00:55:49,507 --> 00:55:49,897

Megan Senese: on

00:55:50,497 --> 00:55:54,097

and we also had the Chief Deputy

Attorney General for the state of

00:55:54,097 --> 00:55:55,837

Arizona on, which I thought was

00:55:55,887 --> 00:55:56,467

Maricella Herrera: That's cool.

00:55:57,017 --> 00:55:59,567

Megan Senese: exciting about how

people can make an impact in their

00:55:59,567 --> 00:56:04,487

communities if they're feeling like

their communities maybe out of control.

00:56:04,487 --> 00:56:08,067

And so how you as a, a

civilian can make an impact

00:56:08,387 --> 00:56:09,467

for positivity.

00:56:10,027 --> 00:56:13,307

we have quite a few leaders

who are high ranking.

00:56:13,982 --> 00:56:17,612

Lawyers talking about how they're

making an impact at their firms,

00:56:17,642 --> 00:56:20,842

and in a way that is talking

about their pro bono efforts.

00:56:21,352 --> 00:56:24,952

We've had a psychologist on about why

high achieving women think they're

00:56:24,952 --> 00:56:26,392

failing, but they're not actually.

00:56:26,392 --> 00:56:29,512

And so it's been really

lots of different topics.

00:56:29,512 --> 00:56:30,742

It's been really fun.

00:56:30,842 --> 00:56:35,262

it's the best part of our job is

that we get to do the podcast and,

00:56:35,422 --> 00:56:38,362

we're an independent podcast, which

means we pay for it ourselves.

00:56:38,632 --> 00:56:42,722

And, so yeah, we hope, we hope

people continue to, to listen.

00:56:42,722 --> 00:56:46,352

We promote it and all the all, I promote

the shit out of it everywhere, right.

00:56:46,352 --> 00:56:47,252

As a marketer should.

00:56:47,992 --> 00:56:50,392

so thanks, thanks for

allowing us to plug it.

00:56:51,382 --> 00:56:51,952

Maricella Herrera: No, of course.

00:56:52,002 --> 00:56:54,792

Did you start the podcast as a

way for business development?

00:56:54,792 --> 00:56:55,872

was that the angle?

00:56:56,502 --> 00:57:00,232

Megan Senese: Yeah, it's a good

way to have lead generation.

00:57:00,562 --> 00:57:03,112

there's a couple of ways as to

why you would have a podcast.

00:57:03,112 --> 00:57:04,462

Is it brand and visibility?

00:57:04,522 --> 00:57:04,942

Yes.

00:57:05,202 --> 00:57:08,742

anything for Jen and my name to

be tagged and associated together

00:57:08,742 --> 00:57:11,622

'cause we're separate doing things,

contributing to the stage brand.

00:57:12,302 --> 00:57:13,772

having an excuse to reach out.

00:57:13,812 --> 00:57:18,177

why would I ever to talk to

the chief attorney Deputy

00:57:18,177 --> 00:57:19,767

General of the state of Arizona.

00:57:19,797 --> 00:57:20,457

Never.

00:57:20,577 --> 00:57:22,077

He's so nice.

00:57:22,287 --> 00:57:22,707

Right.

00:57:23,217 --> 00:57:26,227

Literally, I just was like, Hey,

like you're LinkedIn, stuff,

00:57:26,247 --> 00:57:27,597

would you come on my podcast?

00:57:27,597 --> 00:57:28,317

And he said, sure.

00:57:28,677 --> 00:57:29,127

That was it.

00:57:30,087 --> 00:57:30,552

that was it.

00:57:31,137 --> 00:57:34,647

We had the CFO of the number one

ranking law firm in the entire country.

00:57:34,647 --> 00:57:35,637

Come on, same thing.

00:57:35,787 --> 00:57:37,797

Hey, would love to have you on my podcast.

00:57:38,217 --> 00:57:39,117

Would you like to do it?

00:57:39,117 --> 00:57:39,957

And he was like, okay.

00:57:40,227 --> 00:57:40,737

That was it.

00:57:41,077 --> 00:57:42,142

no Yeah.

00:57:44,287 --> 00:57:45,547

Maricella Herrera: Maybe I

should be on LinkedIn more.

00:57:46,537 --> 00:57:47,407

You're making a case.

00:57:47,707 --> 00:57:50,397

Megan Senese: It's, it has

been surprisingly, easier than

00:57:50,397 --> 00:57:51,477

I thought it was going to be.

00:57:51,537 --> 00:57:56,247

now granted, people are looking at my

stuff and then I'm validating who I am

00:57:56,247 --> 00:58:00,817

and all the things and showing them proof

of the episodes and, people are agreeing,

00:58:00,877 --> 00:58:03,487

but it, we are focused on trying to be

00:58:03,547 --> 00:58:06,517

Some good right now, and in a time

where everything feels like it's on

00:58:06,787 --> 00:58:11,917

fire and some humanity, and showing

there are people who care, even if

00:58:11,917 --> 00:58:16,027

they're in big law and in corporate,

and the things that you can do that

00:58:16,027 --> 00:58:17,557

can make an impact on people's lives.

00:58:17,587 --> 00:58:19,657

'cause it's, that's what's

about, it's about the people.

00:58:20,047 --> 00:58:21,217

So how do you show that?

00:58:21,617 --> 00:58:22,187

Maricella Herrera: I love it.

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This has been a lot of fun.

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I have one last question, which

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Megan Senese: Mm-hmm.

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