What happens when the worlds of animation and fine art collide? This week on the NOT REAL ART podcast, host Scott "Sourdough" Power sits down with the talented Bob Boyle, an Emmy Award-winning animation creator whose work spans Disney to Netflix. 

In today’s episode, Bob dives into the fascinating connections and contrasts between animation and visual art. Drawing from his vast experience, he shares how his journey in animation has enriched his artistic expression, turning complex ideas into vivid, memorable visuals. But it’s not just about creating art; it’s about fostering community. Bob recounts heartwarming stories from art fairs and discusses his inspiring initiative, “art drops,” where he anonymously distributes original pieces in public spaces, sparking dialogue and connection among strangers. 

Throughout the conversation, Bob emphasizes the idea that art has the incredible power to transcend boundaries and unite people from all walks of life. His pieces, which he refers to as “hieroglyphs for the soul,” explore the struggles of the human spirit, resonating with anyone seeking clarity and hope amid life's chaos. 

Links Mentioned in This Episode:

Arterial

ArtsvilleUSA

Bob Boyle

Bob Boyle on Instagram

Crewest Studio

First Friday Exhibitions

NOT REAL ART

NOT REAL ART Podcast

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Scott “Sourdough” Power

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Okay, like I said, we have a VIP in the house today.

We have an Emmy Award winning animator, the one and only Bob Boyle.

Bob Boyle is awesome.

I just recently met Bob at the other art fair during Art Week here in Los Angeles.

And I loved his work, absolutely loved it.

And in fact, I bought a piece for my son because I thought the message of Bob's work was so important for my son.

My son is 8 years old.

Bob's work is so much about resilience and perseverance and endurance and tenacity.

I just thought those were all important messages for my son.

Bob Boyle is an Emmy Award winning animation creator and producer for Disney, Nickelodeon, Netflix, Cartoon Network, Sesame street and others.

While he loves making cartoons for kids, he also feels a pull to create art that tackles deeper themes guiding his exploration of personal humanity and purpose.

And his artwork speaks for itself.

You've got to check out Bob Boyle.

I just love his stuff, you know, his artistic statement is great.

He says, our world is increasingly chaotic, noisy and filled with distractions.

It's easy to get lost.

My art is an attempt to simplify things, wrestling with the search for clarity and meaning.

It's my way of finding hope.

Each piece acting as a hieroglyphs for the soul and is a visual narrative exploring the struggle of the human spirit.

They invite the viewer to reflect on their own journeys, finding solace and connection in the shared experience of adversity and growth.

Many themes in my art are rooted in my upbringing.

My mother, an immigrant from Helsinki, Finland, instilled in me the Finnish concept of sisu, which embodies stoic determination, tenacity, grit, bravery and resilience.

He's embraced that spirit along with the Japanese proverb, fall down seven times, get up eight, weaving these themes of resilience into my work.

So that's Bob's artistic statement and I'm just so grateful.

He's also like an incredible athlete too, by the way.

Anyway, I'm just so grateful Bob took time out of his busy schedule as an Emmy Award winning animator.

Have I mentioned that he's an Emmy award winning animator?

I'm so grateful to know Bob to be a collector of Bob's work, or at least my son is, and to have him on the show today.

So without further, further ado, let's get into this conversation I had with the one and only Bob Boyle.

Boyle.

Welcome to Not Real Art.

Hey, Scott.

Man, this is so fun.

I tell you.

You know, we.

I have to pinch myself sometimes that I have, like, the coolest job, because I was just wandering through the halls of the other art fair and recently during art Week and saw this BO that was literally shining, literally shining, this golden shine coming in, like a sunlight beaming from the booth.

And I saw your artwork.

I instantly fell in love with it.

We had never met, didn't know each other.

We started chatting.

I ended up buying a piece of my son's bedroom for his birthday, which, by the way, he loves.

Excellent.

And I just was so encharmed by your work, charmed by our conversation, and I'm just grateful to have you on the show today, man.

Thank you for coming through.

Oh, it's a pleasure.

I'm glad our paths crossed.

You know, that was one of the great things about the other art fair was just getting to meet people and in a really organic way.

So.

That's great.

Yeah, it's a very.

It's a very.

It's a cool space, isn't it?

I mean, the way they've set it up, you know, because it's really for a.

For an attendee, you get to meet the artists, you get to talk to the artist.

It's a real sort of human experience.

Yeah, all these art shows are a little bit different.

And, you know, I.

I think this is one of the less stuffy ones.

Yeah, like.

Like I said, you get to really have it one on one interaction with the artists and get to know the artist and connect and a lot of others.

You're talking to gallery reps and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

That's what I.

I just really enjoyed meeting people that were interested in art and there's not an intimidation factor to it.

So.

Yeah, no, and I, you know, I went to the other.

I mean, I went to Freeze, I went to Felix, I went to a few of the other shows, and they're, you know, all different and all interesting in different ways, but for me, anyway, the.

The energy of the art fair really speaks to me.

There's just a vibrant sort of, you know, very contemporary, maybe more youthful vibe about it, and it's really a great space.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

That's.

That's what appealed to me.

I had gone a couple of times just as a spectator and had some friends who had done it, and it just felt like the right vibe for me, you know, trying.

Me trying to explore the art world and see where I fit into it.

And that felt like the most natural fit for me right now.

And that was your first art affair.

You've done several.

That was the first that I participated in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it sounds like you'll do it again then.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Love to, yeah.

Right, right.

Well, because really being a visual artist or a painter, if you will, is not really your, your full time gig.

I mean, you, you, you, that's your, that's your side hustle as the right.

And your, your bread and butter really is an animator.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've made my living as an animator working for all various studios.

Nickelodeon, Disney, Netflix, you name it, going from project to project.

Yeah.

So I mean, I've always done art on the side.

It's been, you know, when you have little hiatuses and little times in between projects, always doing art.

But this recently, in the past year and a half, just been putting myself out there and trying to explore the gallery spaces and the fairs and like I said, just trying to art fits, if it fits, and how it resonates with people and trying to kind of transition into that.

And by the way, I mean, you're such a, like, humble good guy.

You of course, didn't mention anything about your accolades.

I'll be the one to say, I'll be the one that says you're not just an animator, you're an Emmy award winning animator, my friend.

You're as good as it gets.

I've been very fortunate.

Yeah, I've, yeah, I've been fortunate to create a couple of shows and win some awards.

It's been, it's allowed me a great lifestyle and to meet some great people and you know, maintain basically being a 12 year old, you know, at heart while being mature enough to pay the mortgage.

Well, that, that, that is true.

And I tell you, you, you're not, you're not the first Emmy award winning guests on the show, but you're cooler because the other Emmy award winning guests we had literally had the Emmy like sitting behind them on the, on the, I was like, oh, okay, flex time.

Flex.

Yeah.

No, I, my wife wanted to, she's like, we're putting that Emmy in the front room.

And I was like, okay, you're the boss.

But I have to put my little Dallas Cowboys football helmet on top of the Emmy to like, it's.

Come on.

It's.

Yeah, I used to, I, years ago, I used to do a lot of, in Chicago years and years ago when I was a freelance graphic designer and I used to freelance at one of these ad firms there.

And they had won a bunch of awards, but they famously had a garbage can, like one of those, like, metal garbage cans in their lobby.

And they just put all of the awards they won in the garbage can.

Perfect.

So great.

It was like, we're only as good as the next project.

Right.

Anyway, it's so cool.

Well, Bob, obviously, I mean, so many people, artists know that they're an artist early in life.

When did you realize you're an artist?

I mean, you know, I was always the kid who drew in in class when I should have been studying.

You know, that classic story.

I wanted to be an athlete as a kid.

I wanted to be a football player.

Then that clearly was not going to be the path.

And I thought, basketball player.

You know, there's some small guys and basketball player.

I'm a small.

Like, I'm five, seven.

And it's like, oh, that's not the path.

And then I got into running and endurance running, and that was like, well, there's no size restrictions there, you know, But.

But once I realized that athletics wasn't going to be my path, I really focused on art.

So my senior year of art of high school, I just stopped all athletics and threw myself into drawing the school newspaper, cartoon and literary magazine, any opportunity I could do and, you know, went to art school.

But you're.

You're blessed, right?

Because, like, you have these multi dimensions.

Because, you know, I know a lot of talent, a lot of talented artists out there who could never run the Boston Marathon.

You are one of these rare humans that, yes, you've got the artistic chops, but you can also crank it out at 26.2 miles at the Boston Marathon, my friend.

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.

I think I'm an anomaly in that way, Especially in animation.

There are not many athletic types.

Like, you talk sports and you just get blank stares from people.

Yeah.

But I think sports really, like, has informed my art too.

And just my artistic practice just being.

I just being dedicated and not giving up.

Like, that's the marathoner spirit in me.

That's the only way I've achieved anything, is just keep pounding, keep knocking on doors, keep, like, keep at it.

And I think that really comes from sports, you know?

Yeah.

That spirit of perseverance, endurance, grit.

Never giving up, never quitting.

Yeah.

And that, I mean, to go even further back, like, that was my mom.

My mom's from Finland, and there's this Finnish concept called sisu.

And that's all determination, grit, not giving up.

And she, you know, Sort of told me that infused that concept into my brain early on in my life.

And that's just worked into my marathoning, like, not giving up, obviously.

And then it's reflected in the themes of my art, too.

So it's all about resilience.

And when you fall down, you get back up.

Fall down seven times, get back up eight.

Well, and that's why I got my son that piece, because I love the message of sisu.

I love the whole.

You explained that to me when we were talking about your art, but it just so happened that the piece that I got, and I'm guessing many, you know, maybe you communicate this in many pieces, but at least in the piece I bought for him, you had the number seven go.

Fall down seven times, get up eight times.

And the numbers seven and eight were in the piece, but my son was seven, turning eight.

Yeah.

You know, and I thought, oh, this is meant to be.

I gotta get perfect.

It works on lots of levels.

Yeah.

Well, your style, your aesthetic, the look, feel, tone and manner of your visual arts is so iconic and refined and idiosyncratic.

How long did it take you to really get to a place where you said, okay, yeah, no, I found my voice as a painter.

Like, this is what I'm.

These are the stories I want to tell.

Yeah.

I think the themes have always been there.

The style has been evolving over the years.

I, you know, I started doing illustration in New York after college and was doing a slightly different style, but they were always kind of iconic and graphic in nature.

Yeah.

So then it's kind of evolved.

And I think my work in cartoons and animation has really informed my.

This latest graphic style.

I feel like now things are really trying.

Both of my worlds are blending in a real organic way.

Yes.

So I'm, like, dealing with some heavier, deeper, philosophical themes, inspirational themes, but also in a semi cartoony way.

So it's really like feeling natural in this life's body of work.

So.

Yeah, well, that was.

That's.

It's kind of like it was going to be one of my next questions, like, how does your animation inform your visual art and vice versa.

And, of course, I mean, I understand, you know, as an animator, you're a hired gun, maybe.

I mean, you're working with different companies.

You're not.

They're not necessarily hiring you to do your thing, they're hiring you to do their thing.

But how do those things both complement and conflict?

Yeah, I mean, I.

I think, you know, when you're working on certain shows, you start to.

You have To.

You have to be able to draw in the style of those shows.

You have to adapt.

But most of the shows that I've worked on have.

It's.

Have aligned with my personal style, which is very graphic, simple shapes.

The show I created, preschool show called wow wow Wubsy.

Like, some of the characters that I'm drawing now could almost be in that show.

They're that, you know, just sort of simple.

And so I.

I think.

And I think animation is all about clarity and distilling things down to a really simple idea and communicating that in a very quick, clear way.

And that's kind of what I'm trying to do with the symbols and the figurative symbols in my work is try and do that, you know, with a bit of mystery as well.

You don't want to be, like, too didactic about it.

Right.

But yeah, I think that's.

That's how it's really informed it.

Yeah.

So where.

Who do you get your artistic chops from?

Mom or dad or grandpa or grandma?

My dad, he wanted to be an artist.

He grew up, like in the 50s and wanted to be a fashion designer, but back in those days was.

I don't know.

The way he put it was like, if you weren't a certain kind of person, you wouldn't fit in the fashion world, which I think was code for something.

And not that you couldn't be, but you had to really fight for it, I think.

And yeah, he would.

He got into marketing and all that, but every birthday, every birthday, he would draw me a birthday card, which is great.

So I think it was this little outlet.

So I think he was super proud that I sort of did that for him.

You know, kind of followed the dream that he wanted to do, in a way.

Yeah.

Well, where did you end up going to art school?

I went to school in Richmond, Virginia.

School called Virginia Commonwealth University.

Yeah, love Richmond.

It's awesome.

I don't know if you ever been, but.

Oh, yeah, I've been there.

It's great.

Yeah, it's been a long time, but yeah, yeah.

And then you.

So you studied fine art or illustration.

Like, what was your.

What was your pathway into professional animation?

Yeah, I studied illustration in school.

I went in wanting to be an animator, but there wasn't an animation program there.

So I studied illustration, then went to New York after graduation and did freelance illustration in New York for, like, New York Times, Business Week, things like that.

Had some success, but was mostly working as a bellman at the Marriott Marquee in Times Square there to pay the Bills?

Yeah, Yeah.

I used to go over to the New York Times building during my lunch.

I'd throw on a overcoat over my bellman outfit and run across the street to the New York Times and meet with the art director and, like, pray that he wouldn't, like, look down and see, like, the work pinstripes on my pants.

So I did that for a while.

Then it was a struggle to make a living.

So animation started taking off.

And so I decided to pack up, follow my dreams, come out to Hollywood.

And first thing I did was, you know, the first thing I did was get a job at the Marriott in Woodland Hills.

Sure.

Yeah, right.

Because you gotta pay the bills.

And then the second thing I did actually, was I went for a run.

Cause I'm a runner, and I ran.

I remember distinctly running around the Disney lot and looking at the cars coming out going, that must be a famous animator.

That must.

I'm gonna be in there someday.

I'm gonna find a way to get.

And I'm sure there was just accountants, like, coming out, but, like, it fueled the dream for sure.

Is it?

But that's so important, right?

That idea of visualizing it, seeing it, relating to it.

I mean, putting yourself in that position to have that opportunity moving, having the courage and of your convictions and, you know, to risk it all.

Leave New York.

Come here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's essential, but difficult.

And, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, unfortunately, may not have the privilege to do that, but also may not, even if they have the privilege, may not have the courage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's the one thing that I've had is just being a little bit either dumb or fearless.

You know, it's good to be dumb.

Me, too.

Yeah.

I mean, that's just putting yourself out there, you know, like, that always leads to something good, you know, I mean, banging on the doors, keep putting yourself out there.

And, you know, it's been the same in the art world.

Like, trying to find my way into the art world, too is like, the more you get out there, the more you meet people.

Like, every opening I go to, I meet somebody and they say, oh, you should talk to this person.

Oh, you should go to this gallery.

You know, and doors open.

Like, you keep knocking on them and keep showing up and, you know, obviously got to do some good work along the way.

But, yeah, it's just keep at it, you know, that's just CC Way.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, so what was your.

To the extent that you had a big break in la, you got out here, you know, you're working in Woodland Hills at the Marriott.

You're, you're trying to get inroads into the biz here.

What was your first real leg in?

Your first real kind of break, so to speak?

Yeah, I somehow got a character design job at a place called Film Roman.

Their studio, they, they now produce the Simpsons, but back then they were just doing a lot of Garfield and Saturday morning cartoon somehow.

I mean, I had the most God awful portfolio.

God, it was horrible.

I don't know why they hired me.

And every day I was there I thought I was going to get fired.

You know, it was a great place because it was small enough where they would say on a Friday, hey, we need somebody to do background designs.

And I would go, yeah, I'll do it.

I've never done that before, but I'll do it.

And then the next Friday they'd say, hey, we need somebody to paint these background designs.

I go, sure, I'll do that.

So it was a really unique situation where it's small enough that I get to learn a lot really quickly.

Well, but putting yourself out there, right?

I mean, just taking the chance, I mean, sometimes you don't.

Sometimes it just comes down to asking for what you want or need or raising your hand and saying, I'll try.

I'll give it a try.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It led to good things, you know, Led to me like knowing enough about each part of animation.

You know, I got to get into storyboarding and character design and background design and art direction.

One thing led to another and just cobbled together all those skills that eventually allowed me to make my own animated short.

You know, little pilots and things.

So.

Which is, it's rare these days because you come in now and everybody wants you to be specialized and you don't have those opportunities to learn different aspects.

You come in, you're like, okay, you are a character designer, you are a storyboard artist, and then that's all you get to do.

So it's hard for kids these days, say kids, young adults to, to learn the various aspects of, of the show or you know, of making animation production.

You think it'll ever go back to the way it was?

Like, I mean, why.

Well, why has it become so siloed in that way?

In that it's sort of you stay in your lane versus, you know, cross training or.

Yeah, just because of the needs of production.

I think things gotta keep moving, you know, and there's no, there's no time and like.

But I was at a small studio.

That's fine.

I think it's turning back around now because everybody can make their own productions.

And that's, that's why this, the industry is upside down right now, is that you've got five guys in Latvia that can make a feature film.

And, you know, they do it all themselves and they can.

We have the technology now, we have the access to resources now that, like, hey, you can learn blender, you can learn to animate, you can.

You can put together a studio out of your garage.

You don't need the big studio to do it.

So, I mean, that's.

It's both wrecking the industry and making it exciting at the same time.

Yeah, yeah.

And you didn't even mention AI, but.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah, but it's.

It is, right?

Change is the only constant, and these things are going to evolve and change.

And it's as I remember, an old, you know, sort of seasoned vet in the advertising biz.

Years ago, I was frustrated with a client about something and he pulls me aside and he says, he's like, don't worry, kid.

He goes, not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a real thing.

And that's it.

Right.

We can wring our hands over these tools or these changes, are they good or bad?

Well, that's not even the point.

The point is they're real.

And what are you going to do about it?

Absolutely, yeah.

I mean, I, you know, AI, for example, like, it's here, it's not going anywhere.

I think you better learn to use it in some way, you know, because it's, it's like when Photoshop came in and everybody was like, no, I'm a traditional artist.

I don't, I don't do things digitally.

Like, well, you're gonna get left behind.

A lot of people did, so.

Right.

Have you started playing with AI at all?

Yeah, I have a little bit, yeah.

It's just a tad.

Yeah.

Any.

Anything.

I mean, what, what excites you about it?

What scares you about it?

I mean, the scary part is that it.

Someone can sort of take your style, you know, it could.

It's, you know, grabbing from everything.

You know, artists are losing their, their rights in some ways, but, but the exciting thing is you can do.

You can create something on your own and you're in your garage, you know, it's, it's.

And that's what, that's, that's what it's going to be, you know, like.

So.

Yeah, well, so.

So, I mean, you're an animator, but you also have this incredible visual art career in the visual arts with this very graphical and iconic kind of language that you've created.

When are we going to see an animated series based on your visual art?

I don't know.

I.

It's mine.

My art is not the cheeriest.

I think it's inspirational, but I mean, like, there's.

And, you know, you could get a chuckle here and there, but like, seeing a guy with a sword through his back or.

That's exactly what I want to see.

This is stuff maybe, you know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I did some.

I had recently had a solo show, and I did a.

Of some sort of limited animations that were projected on the wall.

So I would love to, like, integrate that into an immersive experience.

That would be like.

That's kind of my ultimate goal, is kind of bring together those two worlds in.

In a space that you can kind of like walk through and have multimedia, like things.

That'd be cool.

Yeah, yeah.

Bring in sound and lighting and.

And all of those things.

Well, I mean, it feels like the next, maybe most immediate next step would be perhaps a children's book.

Because one of the things that I love about your message is that it's so important.

I mean, in terms of sisu like this, I.

As a dad, you know, I got two kids, you know, 12 and eight.

I mean, this idea of.

Of resilience and grit and, you know, falling down seven times, getting up eight, man, that.

That is such a powerful, important message for kids these days.

It is.

I think it's.

I mean, it's powerful for everybody these days.

I think we all kind of need some resiliency.

And.

Yeah, obviously in Southern California, it's, you know, rising from the ashes is a real thing.

And.

But, yeah, I think kids, too, like, they, you know, they've been really protected and sheltered, and they.

They.

They need to fall down and, you know, to learn to get back up.

Yeah.

So, I mean, maybe.

Maybe that's the way to get out.

Children smoking.

But you're right.

I mean, even as adults, I mean, we need to be reminded of that, you know, the importance of tenacity, perseverance, endurance, you know, resilience.

And, you know, when you look back on your life, talk about a time when you really.

It was.

It was really hard to get back up.

I mean, there's.

There's been lots of.

Lots of moments.

Most most recently, I get.

During COVID I had like, a little heart issue.

Nothing big, but, like, where they had to go in and do a procedure and.

Oh, that's scary.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a very commonplace thing, but it's still going into your heart.

Your heart.

Yeah.

It's terrifying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I remember being in the hospital, came out of the procedure, and then, of course, looked at my phone, and I found out that the project I was going to be on had been canceled.

And I just.

And I.

As part of the surgery, I was no longer going to be able to run marathons.

So I was, like, literally heartbroken in many different ways all at once.

Yes.

Maybe two weeks later, I found out that I've got a fellowship to create this project, an artistic project for the Boston Marathon.

So, again, it was sort of this heartbreaking thing where I'm creating artwork that's going to be placed every couple of miles along the Boston Marathon route, which I've run four times, very dear to my.

My heart.

Literally.

Yeah.

And there's literally.

There is a hill in the.

In the course on the Boston Marathon called Heartbreak Hill.

So I'm creating.

Right.

Like, it's creating.

Yeah.

Heartbreak imagery for Heartbreak Hill.

And my heart is literally.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

And I remember we installed it, and I'm watching the runners go by, and I was like, okay, watch the first runners go by.

Those aren't my people, the Kenyans and the elite athletes.

But then when the people that were running at the speed that I was running came by, I literally just burst into tears because I wasn't going to be able to do that anymore, you know?

So it was this amazing way that art helped me grieve the loss of running, which is not a.

It's not a huge thing, but.

Because I'm grateful that I can even walk.

But it did help me process that whole thing.

Well, running's a huge party.

Was a huge part of your life.

And to say to be forced to walk away from that, I mean, that's a devastating blow.

And yet somehow some way discovered this silver lining in it on some level.

I don't know.

I mean, this idea that your mom.

And instill this philosophy in you, this finished philosophy.

How lucky are you?

Shout out to mom.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I guess that was a.

A gift for sure.

She gave me many gifts, but that was.

That was a big one.

Yeah.

Is she still.

Is she still with us?

Is she still alive?

She is not.

No.

Okay.

She lives on in my art.

When I applied for that fellowship, I.

I didn't want to be judged on as Bob Boyle, Emmy award winning, like, animator so in the application, I applied as the artist Sisu, and I use that as my artistic name because I just wanted to be judged for my work.

And so, you know, I may still take that on because I think Sisu is a pretty cool art name.

Yeah, it is a very cool art name.

I think it's got a little more mystery and intrigue than Bob Boyle.

Well, Bob Boyle's cool too.

It's got a.

Got a little bebop to it.

But Sisu almost has, like, a Japanese kind of vibe to it as well.

It does, yeah.

Yeah.

And my wife is Japanese American.

Okay.

So that's another thing that's definitely influenced my world.

Actually, part of that fall down seven times, get up eight, was.

Her nephew was living with us for a period of time, and he left behind this little scroll with some Japanese writing on it.

I didn't know what it meant.

Oh.

And so.

But it was cool looking.

And so I just put it up behind my desk, and you probably see it back there now, actually.

And.

And so I was on a zoom call, and somebody said, hey, do you know what that means?

I thought, crap.

Like, it's probably something horrible and I'm gonna offend somebody.

But they said, no, it means fall down seven times, get up eight.

And I was like.

I looked around and I'm like, that's what my art is all about.

It's Sisu.

It's fall down, it's keep going.

You know, I thought, how serendipitous was that?

Like, wow, that's magic right there.

Yeah.

So I started working it literally into the artwork.

Like, you know, in the piece you got with the arrows going down and up.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, you keep your.

Keep your eyes open for inspiration, and it's gonna, you know, it's gonna present itself for sure.

Where do you like to go when you're.

When you.

When you're seeking, you know, inspiration, so to speak, you want to clear your mind.

You want to maybe be surprised or be moved in some way.

What do you.

Now that you're not running, you know, maybe running was how you did it, you know, before.

What do you do now?

Yeah, I mean, I can still run a little bit.

I can still, like, you know, be the guy.

The old guy jogging around the block.

You know, I just can't do the extreme stuff.

So I still actually do go for runs, and that's always great inspiration because, you know, I think inspiration comes when your mind turns off in a way, and then running does that, you know, same as being in Like a shower.

Like, everybody gets great ideas in the shower when you kind of turn off your brain.

Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, I remember going running and seeing like a.

A tree that had been cut down and seeing all the logs and pieces, and I thought, wow, that's really.

It's really sad in a way, you know, and it just made me think of like, you know, we're.

We're all trees in a way.

We all like, grow up towards the sun, we get damaged in storms.

Like our limbs come off or we get a bad pruning.

You know, we have trauma of some kind, but we keep going up towards the light and we end up with these weird, messed up looking trees, you know, that are both.

That are beautiful as well, you know, and then in the end, we're all chopped up into logs.

Oh, indeed.

Well, you know, but it's.

It's also.

Inspiration is, Is key and the muses are fickle.

I think it was Chuck Close that said inspiration is for amateurs.

You know, you have to just go, you know, work.

I mean, it's a 9 to 5, it's a slog.

You work, you work, you work.

And, and you know, I had the privilege of coming to your studio to pick up that piece for my son.

And you, you are.

The way you're set up, I mean, you.

You have that separate studio, and every day, like clockwork, you go back to the woodshed and you chop, chopping that wood.

Start chopping that wood.

And it's ultimately right in the doing, right, that.

That some of these best ideas come to you.

Yeah, I think it.

I think it's all about that.

I think it's all about.

Yeah.

Getting your butt in the seat and doing it.

Yeah, it's, you know, like that.

Steven Pressfield, Art of Resistance or Art of War?

War of Art, whatever it is, it's all about resistance.

And there's so many distractions.

It's easy to get.

Lose your focus, but, you know, just keep doing stuff.

Keep doing stuff.

I don't know.

I didn't know why I was making this artwork.

I just started making it.

Yeah, one thing.

Yeah, it just, it leads.

Such an artist.

Such an artist.

You didn't have a choice.

You were.

Yeah, it's a compulsion.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no.

I mean, yeah, I just started drawing these little guys in a meeting, like a cartoon meeting or a really boring one, and, you know, you just doodle.

And I doodled this guy with a sword through his back and I was like, oh, God, where's my head at?

You Know, and, but you know, I always use art to like process things I'm going through.

We all do.

Yeah.

Then it just came back and like, hey, I've got some big paper and a marker and like started filling the studio with these characters and then went to cardboard.

Now I'm on to wood and making bigger things and just be curious and keep exploring.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Well, what do you do, like when you.

Because I know you mentioned Pressfield and I haven't read his books.

Not so.

But I've heard him interviewed a few times and I, you know, I know he's very much about ritual and you know, and coming into his writing space and I think he has certain rituals that he does to sort of get into a headspace that allows him to start writing.

When you come into your studio to work, what do you like to do to sort of create energy or space that allows you to get to work and create?

Or do you listen to music?

Do you light some incense?

I mean, you know.

Yeah, I, you know, part of what I was doing, like whenever I, I kind of get lost in things.

I.

I tried to create the.

Create rituals and discipline.

So like I was doing morning journals, you know, like that sort of free journaling that you do.

First thing, wake up and just write for three pages.

I, I don't know, it sound like I was just annoying myself.

It was really boring.

I was getting grapey and like.

Okay, so I started doing morning drawing where I flip over my sketchbook and I just started drawing.

And that was great.

That, I mean, that worked for me.

I was working out things with this unconscious drawing that like, oh, okay, here's where my head's at.

Here's.

I'm working through some issues visually.

Yeah.

So like that just doing that and then once you get that, like just getting in and doing something.

Just like I need to set a goal too.

I always get lost if I don't have a goal.

You know, like whether it's a show or like, you know, trying to create a project or, you know, anything.

If I don't have that, I get really lost.

I get.

That's when I get really depressed.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, what do you do?

What do you think you do to grow, to keep growing as an artist?

What, what are some of the things that you feel like you, you know, must do to keep growing as an artist?

I don't know.

I mean, I think just keep, you know, just keep doing it.

Keep, you know, and I, for me, like living in a self examined life, just always Thinking about what's the next thing?

How can I evolve this?

Yeah.

Constantly sketching, keeping journals, seeing what I'm interested in, paying attention to, what catches my attention.

Yeah, right, right, right.

That's a great point.

Paying attention to what grabs your attention.

Right.

Well, but in terms of, like, earlier you were talking about, you know, getting out and going to galleries and meeting people and how important that networking, you know, thing is.

I know artists hate that word, and they general generally hate that word and generally hate the idea, but you've got to get out.

And this idea of going to galleries, seeing shows.

What are some of the galleries and artists that.

That you find, you know, the most kind of, you know, inspiration, you know.

I mean, I kind of like the artists that cross over that are sort of not.

I don't know, they sort of combine commercial art and fine art in a way.

I mean, whether that's Shepherd Fairey or Cause or nara.

I mean, obviously, like Keith Haring, some of those people.

But I don't know, when I started, like, I didn't know anything about the art world really, especially in Los Angeles.

So I just started listening to podcasts and, like, okay, I want to find out what the art world is in la.

Cool.

And I listened to this guy named Matt Gondick, who.

Yeah, and he had a podcast, or still has a podcast.

And then I heard on there, there was a guy that works for the mural place in Florida, Wynwood.

Oh, yeah, Wynwood Walls.

The Wynwood district.

Yeah.

Troy Kelly was on there, and he was just.

He's like, oh, yeah.

You know, if there's artists out there, you know, I'd love to, you know, you know, send me an email.

So I was like, send him an email.

And then, like, next thing I know, like, we're chatting, and he's inviting me on an artist hike, you know, and then.

Then actually, Matt Gondick was on one of those hikes.

So I got to talk to him, and he was really helpful.

And, you know, that led to a show at Pershing Square because there was an artist there, and he's like, hey, I'm doing a group show there.

And then Pershing Square.

Like, I had that show, and somebody from the Cooper Design space came through and says, I love your work.

I have a big space.

Do you want to do a solo show?

I'm like, yeah.

So, like, you know, it's like, one thing leads to another thing leads to another thing.

Yeah.

You know, like, one of the inspirations for me locally is Mary Lai.

Right.

Like, who we both know.

Shout out Mary.

Yeah.

And she's.

I always think whenever I'm like in a, like doing anything artistically, I kind of think what would Mary do?

And I've told her that too because she's one of those people that it has obviously like artistic skills and wickedly talented, but she also has a strategic way of thinking about things, you know, and she's very smart, she's got a good business sense and.

Yes, well, she knows how to, you know, create opportunities, make the most of opportunities.

I'm.

She's also like super gracious with her time and sharing with others.

So.

Yeah, and that's, you know, through her people as well.

Yeah, no, that's, that's it.

I mean so much of what you're saying resonates because, you know, being an artist can be a lonely existence.

Right.

You know, just sort of in the studio indulging in the making of the art.

You know, this idea that you get out into the world, meet colleagues, you know, the goodness that comes from that.

But also you're sort of hitting on something that, that's kind of interesting too, this idea of, of how maybe so called contemporary artists can learn from commercial artists.

So called commercial artists.

Because I mean if you're a so called commercial artist, I mean you, you have to think strategically, right?

You, you are up against the deadline, you have to deliver on budget, on time.

You know, you, there might other, be, be other demands in terms of staying within a certain, you know, set of constraints.

It's got to, you know, look beyond brand or whatever.

And certainly, you know, it feels like contemporary artists, you know, so called fine artists may, you know, may, may learn a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

From that, you know.

Yeah, I'm, that's, that's what intrigues me and I think I'm fortunate and I have some of those skill sets, you know, where I can, like, I'm not the guy that's just going to like make art and like for art's sake.

I don't know, it's, that's why I like you know, like Shepard Fairey or Chantal Martin or you know, these people that do work that gets out and touches.

Not just in an art gallery, it touches the world outside.

So I'm kind of interested in, yeah, how can, you know, there's art drops or something, you know, or street art or, you know, I'm not like, not, not a graffiti guy.

I'm too much of a goody goody for to like to face a wall, but like finding Ways to engage with people outside of the art world.

Yeah, that's very closed off to me, and it doesn't really interest me, you know, but connecting with.

That's what I like.

Again, about the other art fair, it's a different kind of person who's.

They like art, but they're not like high art snobs in a way.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's right.

That's right.

Well, and maybe we chatted about this before, but if you're not familiar with designercon, you really need to get familiar with designercon.

They were in Pasadena for years and they were in Anaheim.

Now they're in Las Vegas.

But that's a show that I feel like your work would just be so welcome.

People would love it.

Those are your people.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely, like, I.

One of the goals is, is some sort of figure.

You know, I used to collect, you know, vinyl toys back in the, in the heyday and like.

Yeah, for it to come full circle and get some sort of vinyl toy action and.

Yeah, just like crossing it over into interesting places.

Like you're saying animation, children's book, immersive space, you know, like, that really immersive space is like people want experiences, you know, whether it's walking down a street and a visual surprise of seeing that, you know, a piece of art that you don't expect, or, you know, it's just something that you could take a picture with.

And everybody wants to be Instagrammable.

It's just creating spaces and experiences outside of the art world, traditional art world.

That kind of excites me.

I want to see you release a coloring book.

Okay.

But it comes with two crayons.

It comes with.

Or maybe it only.

No, no, I take that back.

It only comes with one crayon and it's a gold crayon.

Gold crayon, right.

It's a black and white coloring book that comes with a gold crayon.

I like it.

I like it.

I want to buy.

I want to buy the first one that you make or a mini can.

Can of gold spray paint.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I mean, just, just those acts of, Of.

Of creativity.

I mean, you know, there was a few years ago, like adult coloring books, like for all the rage, you know, and, you know, anyway, your work would lend itself so much, and I just love the idea of having one.

It comes with one golden crayon.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I think we all remember, right?

And back in the, Back in the day, you get your.

Certainly if you got the big box of Crayons, Right.

They had the gold and the silver.

Like it just was sparkly and it was so nice to.

Oh yeah, all the 64 is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how do you sort of schedule your, your, your art making?

I'm guessing the, the animation stuff is a nine to five kind of, you know, schedule for you.

So are you making your visual art on the weekends at night?

I mean, how do you, you know, organize?

Yeah, yeah, it's, it, yeah, it's in the morning.

I get a couple hours in the morning and yeah.

Six o' clock try and, you know, six or most times seven.

Yeah, seven.

And have some dinner and like come back out and, and hit it again.

Yeah.

And then weekends, hopefully, hopefully my wife sleeps in and I can grab some time in the morning.

We met in animation.

Both working at, at a studio.

Right on.

Yeah, yeah, she's, she's an animation professional as well.

Office romance, man.

I mean, that's dangerous.

I don't know.

I mean, is that allowed?

Yeah, yeah, it's not.

It was very scandalous.

Yeah, yeah, it was bad.

Oh, good.

I love scandal.

That's good.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember years ago, I was an artist rep in Chicago for a while, repping commercial artists, photographers, illustrators, what have you.

And one of my clients ended up hiring me away.

And so I was leaving and the office threw me a going away party.

And Natasha Taylor Miller, who was a colleague of mine who was, you know, very kind of, you know, I loved Natasha.

Natasha and I were super cool as friends, but we were very different.

And, you know, if I was rough around the edges or diamond in the rough, you know, Natasha's the cut.

Diamond.

I mean.

Yeah, this woman is just like put together, just super, you know.

And when I was, when I was leaving, they threw me a going away party and everybody kind of signed, you know, their cards or whatever.

And Natasha wrote.

Natasha wrote, scott, I'm gonna miss you and your vaguely inappropriate comments.

Very much love, Natasha.

And I.

And I saw and I found that card not too long ago and I thought, oh my God, those vaguely inappropriate comments would get me fired today, you know?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, that was three hours of my day yesterday was being on a sexual harassment training course.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

Different times.

Different times indeed.

Well, so what are you excited about?

You know, when you look out for the summer and the balance of the year, I mean, we're just, you know, we're coming into summer and then the rest of the year.

What projects are you really excited about what are you working on?

What do you got coming up?

Yeah, I'm.

Most recently, you know, I did the other art fair, and I'd like to do that again.

So that's.

That's definitely a thought.

And then I'm kind of looking into doing some art drops around town.

I think, like, I'd like to experiment with that.

I've been kind of wandering through.

My ritual Sunday morning ritual has been to go run through the Caltech campus and drop off little pieces of art that I've printed out on the bulletin boards there.

And things with little inspirational sort of sayings.

Yeah.

And.

And then they have some whiteboards and some chalkboards, and I draw on those.

And so that's been pretty.

A pretty fun experience.

Experiment to kind of dip my toes into the art drop world.

But I think I'd like to kind of expand that out and put some originals into the world.

And so I've been sort of researching that and seeing what.

What would fit with my art.

It's been cool to get some.

Some feedback from it too.

Somebody, some Caltech student saw the work that I was dropping off there, and they messaged me because I do my Instagram tag.

And they.

They messaged me and said, hey, I was really inspired by the stuff you've been leaving at Caltech.

And, you know, I was really bummed out with the elections, and I wanted to do something, so I took one of your characters and i3D printed it and made it into a magnet, and I left it on the whiteboard at Such and Such in front of Such and Such Hall.

And I was like, holy crap, that's amazing.

I ran over there and.

And got this little, like, 3D printout of my character.

Brilliant.

I thought, oh, my gosh, like, how cool is that to connect with somebody that much that they want to make a 3D print of your work?

Wow.

If I can do more of that, that's kind of cool.

And the dialogue there, right in conversation, that back and forth.

Yeah, yeah.

And even the silent dialogue.

I know that I really appreciate it when I walk down the street and I see something unusual that somebody's left, you know?

You know, or just even like some cool graffiti, you know, or something that's like a visual interest.

I don't know.

And my work is inspiring in a way, so hopefully I can give little bursts of inspiration to people along the way.

So I don't know.

I.

I mean, I'm fortunate that I don't have to make a living from art, from the art that I'm doing, like.

So I'm in a very, like, wonderful spot.

And yes, very grateful for that.

So I can kind of play around and experiment.

And that's what my.

The past year and a half has been me experimenting with.

Do I like group shows, art fairs, what.

What connects with me.

And so I'm still kind of trying to figure that out and see where it can lead.

Yeah, that's a huge point.

I mean, you know, the ability to have, you know, your bills are paid, you know, and.

And then.

And then have.

So you have the freedom to create and explore and experiment.

Yeah, yeah.

And that always leads to good things.

So I'm.

Yeah.

Very grateful for that to be.

I love this idea of the art drop.

You know, talk a little bit more about that.

These are just sort of random gifts to the community.

Yeah.

That you make.

That other artists make.

I mean, where did you.

Were you did.

Did you come up with this idea of the art drop or were you inspired by somebody?

No, I've.

I have a couple of pals who have been doing it.

Yeah.

Just creating original work, dropping it off or all across town and seeing, like, what people.

How people react to it and.

Yeah, it's just kind of a gift to people.

So I'm trying to come up with a sort of, like, campaign of, like, we live in Los Angeles.

I create these kind of lost angels.

You know, I think it'd be kind of cool to place lost angels all over the city.

Yes.

And with little inspirational words of wisdom on the back and hopefully it helps you and like, you know, just again.

And being in that spot where, well, I don't have to make money from it, so, like, I can afford to, like, make it a gift for people.

And, you know, you put good things into the world.

I think something good will come from that.

I don't know what that.

What it will be, but, like.

Right.

Or maybe it won't, but, like, it's still pretty cool put.

Yeah, you're putting positive energy and I mean, you know, like, look, I mean, you're doing it as much for your own spiritual well being as.

As anyone else's.

Right.

And you, you know, like, you got to do it.

So, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what's calling to me right now.

I mean, ultimately, ultimately, I have this big, crazy goal that I want to do something for the LA Olympics.

Yes.

Because that would bring all of my passions together.

Like, I've always been a huge Olympic fan and, you know, obviously I love sports and athletics and running.

So if I Could find a way to do something with my art.

Sports in Los Angeles with angels.

These little angel characters I do in Los Angeles.

I don't know how to manifest that exactly, but that's where my, that's where my head and heart is at, you know.

Well, I, Yeah.

I don't do little things along the way.

Right, right.

For sure, for sure.

Well, you know, I don't know much, so I probably shouldn't bring it up, but I do have a sense that the LA Olympic Committee are, you know, they are working with artists in many ways.

I don't know exactly how you get in there, but.

But it's, it's happening.

Yeah, yeah, I know that there's like, they always have like a cultural Olympia, Olympiad, you know, in conjunction with it and, you know, awful things.

So whether it's official or unofficial.

Yeah.

I'd like to find my way into doing something that combines all my passions in that way.

I think we've answered the question.

Olympic art drops.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.

How cool would that be?

Like, just for like people from all over the world to be in Los Angeles and then like go and find like a weightlifting angel somewhere.

And by the way, like, because you work with gold so much, this idea, like, how do.

How would you create a Bob Boyle gold medal that would personify the Sen Tzu philosophy and you're dropping these so called Olympic medals, art drops or art medals around anyway.

Yeah.

All right, well, I'm going to hit you up for more brainstorming.

That would be amazing.

I'm in for that.

Yeah.

Man, I tell you, I'm so grateful that you came on the show today.

I'm so grateful to be.

Well, my son is a collector of your work, I guess.

Yes.

He is a lucky kid.

I'm gonna have to figure out, you know.

Yeah.

Start them young.

That's right.

That's right.

Well, let's organize our own artist hike.

I love that idea.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's good because we all just sit in front of computers all day or inside making, making art.

It's good to get out and get some, some air.

It's an artist hike followed by an artist bar crawl.

I meant for both of those.

I even envy.

Just for the bar crawl.

Right, right, right.

Well, and you know, jumping around a little bit.

But I mean, and you probably know this.

I didn't know this until, you know, I don't know, a couple few years ago.

Whatever.

But there are these art runs now.

Speaking of running, like, there are these running clubs that run to various murals and artwork, public artworks and the community that way.

Yeah, I knew of one in New York.

I didn't know if there's one out here, but yeah, that's awesome.

So cool.

So cool.

Well, Bob, thank you, my friend.

Thank you for coming through and to come back anytime.

Look forward to seeing you real soon.

Awesome.

Thanks for having me, Scott.

Appreciate it.

You got it.

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