In this episode, Terri welcomes Cody Johnson, CEO of SCS Technologies, a provider of measurement equipment, environmental solutions, controls, and automation solutions for the oil field's hydrocarbon, water, and refined products.

In this conversation, Cody and Terri discuss the new era of the energy sector, which intertwines carbon management with groundbreaking customer experiences. They also discuss Cody’s commitment to digitization and AI and reshaping how B2B stakeholders engage in the midstream oil and gas space. Cody also shares why aligning the vision with action is a crucial step with any company, and how it creates alignment with the company and any stakeholders.

For more information on SCS Technologies, visit: https://www.scstechglobal.com/

To connect with Terri at Marketing Refresh, visit: https://MarketingRefresh.com

Key Topics:

• Innovation within the customer experience
• The evolution of the customer experience and digital engagement strategies
• The approach to product development
• Key factors to create stakeholder alignment
• Creating accountability in outsourcing
• Setting the groundwork for marketing goals and success

This is b to b marketing methods. I'm your host, Terry Hoffman, and I'm the CEO of Marketing Refresh. Let's face it. Embracing digital marketing is daunting. This podcast was created to make it more approachable. Join us as we talk to CEOs, sales leaders, and revenue growth experts who will share lessons learned and tips from their own journeys. Okay. Welcome to b to b marketing methods.

Really excited today to have one of our great partners and longtime clients, Cody Johnson, as our guest. And Cody is the CEO of SCS Technologies. And maybe we could start by you telling us what is SCS SCS Technologies, Cody. Please introduce your company.

Sure. Well, first of all, Terry, thank you so much for having us on the day. It's been a pleasure working with you over the years and and learning so much from you and and really looking forward to, participating today. SCS Technologies is a designer and fabricator of measurement, custody transfer, and vapor recovery skids in the midstream oil and gas space. So, specifically, we are taking fluids, different molecules, primarily in their fluid form. And that could be LNG. It could be CO 2. It could be helium, liquefied natural gas, or just, methane or just petroleum.

And and we're we're measuring it. We're writing the tickets for custody transfer to make sure the buyers and the sellers, get their correct change. And and frequently more frequently, nowadays, we're helping with carbon management as part of the energy transition. So that means we're measuring hypercritical c02 and doing custody transfer of it to make sure people get their their correct credits. 45q from the IRS, as well as capturing, methane, stray methane emissions, in the midstream space and reinject them into the line.

Okay. Wow. That was like a little mini chemistry revisiting my high school chemistry class for a second there too.

That's right. It's all about the molecules.

That's right. Well, I know you recently joined. And, you know, maybe you could talk about the transitions that you've gone through in your career and what's led you to to joining the team. And, you know, I have a lot of information about the mission that you're on at SCS, and I'd love it if you can just unfold that story a little bit and about how you arrived and what your mission is.

I'm a 4 time, CEO. This is the 4th company that I've led. I've worked throughout my career with private equity. Some of the 2 of the businesses I started and sold and 2 of the businesses I took over after the the first institutional buyer purchased them, and then, they brought me in to to manage. And so, typically, you know, what what I'm doing at this stage in my career is I'm I'm coming in and preparing a company between the first and second institutional buyer. And what that typically means is is putting the structure in place, the organizational structure in place, followed by processes, procedures, work instructions, and then systems frequently now that means digitization, and more and more it's meaning AI. Recruiting the key people, getting the strategy in place, getting the performance compensation plans in place, and the marketing in place, which we're here today to talk about to align all stakeholders, and then executing. And so it's really a one way of saying it is when I come in, a company's in its in its growth phase, again, between 1st and second institutional owner, and it needs to be professionalized to to to be ready to continue for a strategic buyer, a financial buyer, or an initial public offering.

Okay. I'm sure before you joined, you had options. Right? So you had probably a few choices on the table. What really drew you to SES? Like, what what was exciting about that?

Yeah. I did. I I was very fortunate. I had I had 3 options, options, to choose from. And the the what really drew me to SCS was the ability to participate energy transition, energy transformation, carbon management that's going on particularly here in Houston where that our office and where my family and I live. And so, you know, really exciting space at the moment in the in the city of Houston and and in the world in general with regards to energy. For decades, we've been having a a, a conversation globally about clean energy and about can we get there with molecules, or do we have to only get there with electrons? And so, you know, electrons are your are produced. Electricity is managed and produced energy via electron with hydro, with geothermal, with wind, with solar, and hydrocarbons are are produced with petroleum, obviously, and molecules are produced with petroleum.

And so, you know, finding a way the the energy trilemma, you know, sort of tells us that we obviously need to be good stewards of our environment and develop clean energy to to to have been married, global population has, gone up 400%, from 2,000,000,000 to 8,000,000,000. And so that's a big part of the energy trilemma. We we need to provide reliable, affordable energy to the to the planet, but we need to do it in a energy and an environmental way. And so, really, you know, I think the world has come most of the, world has come to the conclusion of the conversation that really improbable to get there to to solve the energy trial lemma in the next 20, 30, 50 years without continuing to use molecules. We just can't get there with the electrons quickly enough, especially since we think that 8,000,000,000 population is going to 10,000,000,000 by 2050. So we need to figure out how to manage the molecules, the hydrocarbon molecules, without destroying the atmosphere. And that means carbon management. And so particularly methane emission reduction, capture, and c o two capture and sequestration.

And so having the opportunity to work on that really meaningful and immediate problem here at SCS was what brought me here.

Okay. That's that's exciting. I mean, it's exciting when you can put, like, meaning into your to your work. Not all of us are, you know, doing open heart surgery and saving lives every day in our day to day world, but, you know, you have an opportunity to make a huge impact on the Earth and our planet and our our livelihood in that role. And I'm curious when you when you started and you took on the role, what were some of your top priorities? Like, what were what were the things that you knew immediately? I've gotta start diving into these things, and and how did you set those priorities?

For me, you know, again, since I've I've been doing this for a hot minute, I've got sort of a playbook and a checklist. And and so again, it's all about having, you know, there's a 3 legged stool, I like to tell our our staff. There's you know, we have to have a strategy. We have to have a vision where we're going, a strategy of how to, of how to accomplish that in an immediate plan. That's that's the first leg of the stool. The second leg of the stool is everybody on the team has to know exactly what their role is. And then the 3rd leg of the stool is the what's in it for me leg. You know, what if we if we get to where we're going, what do I get for that? And so very clearly defining that is very important.

And then the messaging is important to that, which, again, we'll talk we're here to talk about marketing, and so we'll talk more about that today. But but so coming in and, you know, the first 100 days is is always about an evaluation of what should the vision be, what is it, what should it be. And then with regards to the plan, we have to start looking at, do we have the people to accomplish this goal? We know we can't manage things if we can't measure them. So do we have data systems in place to correct to collect the right data to be able to manage what we're trying to do? Do we have a issues list? Do we know exactly what but what are the obstacles that we're that are gonna need to be torn down? Do we know the opportunities for which resources are gonna need to be supplied? Those all those things go on our on our issues list. Is the business in a I like to call it cadence? My brother likes to call it rhythm. So does the business have a cadence? Are, you know, do the departments meet each week? Does the senior leadership team meet each week? Does the executive leadership team meet each week? Is there a 90 day all hands meeting? Are those meetings or the agendas always the same? Do they start on time and end end on time? Those sort of things. And are they are the agendas built around alignment and communicating alignment? Because if you've got the right strategy, you've got the right vision, you got the right strategy, you you you have the right plan. Really, everything else is around alignment.

Okay. Well, I know you've done something pretty interesting and innovative in terms of how you look at revenue growth, and it ties to your organizational structure. And I'm wondering if you can just talk a little bit about how you developed that structure and what you call it and how that fits into the overall organization. Because I think that ties directly to how marketing fits into the conversation. Right?

Very much. We're very excited about it. But one of the things that that I'm doing differently at SCS than I did in the other three companies is I spent I actually spent a a week in Cambridge as I as I do each year and discuss this with my professors and fellow alumni or executive education participants in at Harvard. And one of the things we were you know, we're really focused on business organization and and strategy. And one of the things that I came away with there after, a week of discussions was we decided to create department of business transformation. And that department has a strategy branch and an innovation branch, and our marketing is underneath our strategy branch. So it's not it's it's not underneath the sales part of our organization any longer. The idea is to be very, very clear on how that you're going to deliver stakeholder value, what innovations, and what strategy, strategies you're working on, what what exactly are those initiatives.

And those initiatives should attract and repel all the they should attract all the right stakeholders and repel all the wrong stakeholders, whether that be customers, vendors, employees, investors, lenders, even your community. Right? So all stakeholders

Yeah.

Should either be appropriately attracted or repelled. And what better way of doing that than marketing to them what you believe are the exact focus, strategic and strategic and innovation initiatives that you're working on that's gonna differentiate their experience, their stakeholder experience with your company.

Yeah. Wow. That it that's very different. How's that been received inside of the company? Because it's a non traditional approach, typically at a b to b business, particularly in, the energy industry and particularly with the manufacturing arm, you're seeing a vice president of sales and marketing, and then there's a director of marketing or a marketing manager that reports to them. And I I'm not saying that's wrong. That works very effectively in a lot of Sure. With a lot of our clients. But what was kind of a driver to pushing you that direction? You you just kinda gave some perspective, but I'm wondering why you felt like putting it there versus the traditional spot was gonna give you an advantage.

Sure. One of the experiences that I've had in in in the previous three companies I've led is you get to a certain point in growth, and you start hitting your head on glass ceilings. And one of the solutions, one of the hammers to get through the glass ceiling is diversification, whether that be of products or of markets. So products to the same market or entry into new markets. And, you know, what I found over the years with that is if you're a a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So you you keep playing the same playbook that got you here, but all of a sudden it's no longer gonna get us there. And so with SCS, you know, one of the things we're definitely doing different and we're excited about it, but it's required you know, the oil and gas industry, the petrochemical industry is definitely going through energy transformation. We definitely have a change in psychology.

We definitely have a change in goals. There's a total change in mindset, and we and we know this carbon management piece is something we have to do. So all of our customers are being very much driven by methane emission detection and reduction. A lot of their capital budgets are around that. A lot of their capital budgets are around c o two capture and sequestration more and more. And so for us to remain relevant, we've gotta adapt with our customer base. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, it's a good thing that we're excited about energy transformation and carbon management.

But, frankly, even if we weren't, we would have to adapt or die. It's gonna be a mass extinction event in this industry. Those that don't do it are not gonna survive. So in doing that, you need to innovate. You need new strategies that are coming in from outside the walls, from outside the fence, so to speak. And so so felt like that it was important that that was important. The other thing, another driver is, you know, when we expect innovation and strategy and and and the communication of that, the messaging of that, which is for us, that's how we define marketing. When you expect that to happen inside your operating departments that their main job is delivering their numbers for today, this week, this month, this quarter, You know, they have a very transactional job.

They need to hit budgets. They need to hit delivery dates. Expecting them to innovate and change strategy and adapt the company sort of on the night in the evenings and, weekends isn't, you know, that's the we'll try harder strategy and, you know, don't think that's gonna be very effective, especially with something as foundational as what we're dealing with. So it felt like we needed full time staff working full time on just the strategic and innovation initiatives and, again, in messaging that.

Right. Yeah. So that completely makes sense. Now what I'm wondering is because marketing still has to be supporting revenue growth Mhmm. I e sales, how do you make sure that those functions stay connected?

Our vice president of the commercial side of our business and our marketing director, our strategy director, they meet multiple times a week. You know, they're very close. I think they probably talk several times a day. And so, you know, again, what we should and and our, marketing is is what's unique about about our company. Right? And so for us, one of the things that's most unique is we're building again. I've only been here next week will be my 9 9 month anniversary. So I've only been here a little over 8 8 months. So but what we're really building is, you know, we're gonna a a company that's best in class stakeholder experience through digitization and AI.

And so, again, we're there's a lot of people that design and fabricate skids to do measurement and custody transfer. It's it's the experience of how how you do that. So a vast oversimplification is we're we're we're gonna be the 1st person in our in industry to have a Domino's pizza tracker sort of thing.

Wait. Explain that. Explain that. You have to explain that.

Well, for example, one of the initiatives that that is different about the experience with SCS than with our our competitors is our customers can log in to a customer portal. That customer portal shows exactly what stage of production. So we have about 5 stages of production. We have welding. We have hydro testing. We have assembly, paint, and instrumentation electronics. And so they can see exactly where their skid is in the process. The data is not real time, but it's near real time.

It's updated daily, so it's never more than 24 hours old. And they don't have to pick up the phone or email and wait on a a a return phone call or an email or, hey. I'll get I'll get back to you to get a Gantt chart, to get a updated delivery. Our products are very technical. There's explosion risk that comes with them. And our products are are are cost 100 of 1,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars. And so they come with data books, which are very, you know, sort of a an owner's manual, but of a very expensive, very dangerous piece of equipment or equipment that's to operate in a dangerous environment, I should say. And so the data book is compiled in near real time and can be collaborated on.

Our competitors are still sending out 3 ring binders. Right? 2 weeks after the skid goes out. So but communicating that to the to the customers. Right? Communicating that to all stakeholders. If if that's the experience you want, you know, if you wanna be able to order this incredibly expensive, incredibly critical piece of equipment and know exactly where it's at, have very low transaction costs, have a have a really, you know, transparent experience, then then then you should come to us. If you really like your 3 ring binder that shows up 2 weeks after your product, you should be repelled from us. That's not we're not gonna be a great fit.

Yeah. So But you're, you know, you're really touching on something that is a big part of my mission as the CEO of Marketing Refresh is really getting the b to b world to understand that the same types of expectations that we as consumers have in our consumer life Mhmm. Are transferring over to our business life. So Yeah. You know, people who are, gen x are are late fifties, early sixties. We I'm in that generation. And using the Internet, yeah, that's that was part of how we learned how to function in the works in the work world, in our business life. And so we're continuing to expect that those same conveniences when we're making business purchases, how we interact with a salesperson or, the delivery of a product.

We want the Amazon experience, so to speak, in that world now. And I think we've all as buyers in the b to b world have you know, we've been okay with, not having those conveniences, but I think that's really changing. And I'd love to hear that you guys are all ahead of that. Yeah.

Yeah. No. I totally agree. And I would probably even go a little bit further and say our vice president and director level staff and and, importantly, the stakeholders and our other stakeholders at that same level that they meet with that are making transactional decisions are are a generation younger than what you described. So, you know, I I had a meeting with one of our

Thanks for putting that out.

I had a meeting with one of our major customers, yesterday, and, our vice president of of sales commercial and our our director of marketing, was there as was several folks from their side. So that sort of level. And, you know, we all went to lunch after the meeting and everyone at the table had, you know, you start talking about family, obviously, and everyone at the table had kids from sorta, you know, 2 to 6, except me. My kids are 20 years older than

me. Right.

And so so they're you know, I think sort of generally speaking, they're in their mid thirties. And so I think their expectation of a more digital experience, you know, they they don't relish calling and having to talk to somebody about to get to get the update status updates on exactly where a project is. That, you know, they really expect to be able to log in to a digital portal that's off prem and an Internet signal, they wanna have access to the data. And so if we can't get if we can give them access to that data, we believe that they're gonna value that experience. We don't know that or, that they will give us more price for that experience, but we do believe they'll reward us with more market share. And and I think that is, just likely to increase obviously as as time moves forward. And, again, we we really believe that that experience that, a, you know, it we were talking about digitization 2 years ago. We're we're now we're freak more frequently talking about artificial intelligence.

So, you know, if if you're not in a place to plug in AI to help to help make that experience even faster, better, more seamless, if you're not putting your company in a position to do that, internally at SCS is that has that that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with our products, but it has everything to do with our stakeholders. And so that messaging that, hey. We we get that and we're working on it and we're thought leaders in that space and we're ahead of everybody else. We don't have this all nailed down, but we but, you know, we've got what we call our MVP, our minimum viable products or of our Apple, you know, Apple 1, iPhone, or whatever, iPhone 1. And we're, you know, we get it out there so they can use it. We learn, we reiterate. And so just just the marketing of that's how we think. That's what we're working on.

And, yes, we're gonna deliver you a great product. It's gonna have the best compressor, the best coolers, the best pumps and valves and flanges. And but that's just the ante to the game. I'll we're not gonna you know, that's such a mature product, approach. It's gonna be very difficult to differentiate ourselves or our competitors differentiate themselves. We all use the same components. We all use the same technology to make the product. So the opportunity at the moment, experience that's delivered through digitization, through AI.

We have a vision for that. We have a department that's working on it. We're delivering on that and communicating to all stakeholder groups and bringing them all in alignment that if you're emotionally and intellectually attached and attracted to that idea, then you should work with us, irregardless of what stakeholder group you find yourself in. And if you're not, you know, if you can't find your if you don't find yourself emotionally and intellectually attracted to that value proposition, then, it doesn't make you a bad individual, and it doesn't make us a bad bad individual, but we we're probably not suited to work with each other.

Right. Well, and that's that's important to recognize. Right? So I I love that you make that a part of your company culture and your messaging strategy. I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk to you about, like, what are some of the qualities that you look for in somebody who's in a marketing role? And and I guess I'm thinking about how that could be applied not only across your internal resources, but also your external resources. I'm not, fishing for any compliments here either. I think this is a learning opportunity for anyone who's trying to figure out how do I navigate finding marketing resources. Right? How how do I figure out what qualities are important?

You know, again, I hate hate to a broken record, but I think it's all about alignment. And so I think the company that that you work with to partner with on marketing, you need to be in alignment with them or or it's not gonna work. And a big part of that is, again, if you don't know your your vision, if your vision isn't crystal clear, if your strategy and your plan to accomplish that vision isn't crystal clear, If you don't know the type of stakeholders that you need to attract to accomplish that vision, and if you don't understand how they're gonna answer or need to hear the what's in it for me answer from you, if you don't have crystal clarity on that, how do you get in alignment? Right? Like, if you don't it's sort of like, you know, I would I would tell one of my one of my 20 something year old children, So I think step 1 is is, you know, creating through discussion, excellent clarity around those points internally, and then be able to communicate those with clarity to your marketing, the the companies or or individuals that you're trying to attract. And and and ask ask the question, are you in alignment with that? Like, does that are you intellectually and emotionally attracted to that? Because if you are, everything else will fall into place. Right? There's gonna be the effort. There's gonna be the curiosity. There all the all the things that it's gonna take to make the the the relationship work between you and your marketing company, just like any other stakeholder, is gonna work. But first, you have to have crystal clarity on on where you're trying to get and and you're planning to get there and, and make sure you're in alignment.

Right. Yeah. Well so I guess going and taking one component of that alignment, you know, what when you and I first met, you were kind of at the, I would say, the front end of really learning about digital marketing and online marketing, what, like, kind of connecting that back to alignment, was there a domino or something that kinda tipped you in the direction of, okay, I'm ready to embrace this route. Like, this Sure. Isn't something that I've considered as part of the strategy to help grow a business in the past. Because you you led and sold and successfully ran businesses before you embrace that. Right?

I I I hope I'm a lifelong learner, and that's that's very important to to me and and who I am and and and in what I do. And and the the marketing piece has definitely been a a very strong theme in the last, you know, sort of 5, 6 years of of my ongoing development. And and it continues to be. It it it definitely continues to be, and we keep getting more layers. But to to answer your question, when when when you and I first met, your clarity and your group's clarity around what you do and how you do it, around your objectives, around your strategy, it again, that I was very clear about what I needed and wanted, and you were very clear about who you were. So it made it very easy, or very efficient to to be able to make a good decision. The and part of that with regards to core values or core behaviors, you know, I think where that where that you all, at Marketing Refresh and and I, clicked very early was, around the the concepts of of transparency and accountability. And so everything that, you know, I've I've always been or I've been impressed with your firm since we've met with regards to how transparent and, and also rigorous y'all are.

So there's a lot of rigor in your process. For whatever the plan is that we come up with together for execution of that, and you supply metrics to tell us how we're doing. And so, again, that that all just you know, hopefully, your listeners can hear where that that really clicks and jives with everything else of of sort of how I try to build a business and prepare a business to continue on their journey of growth.

Yeah. Yeah. And I well, first off, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. It kinda reinforces what's part of our company values and our core values and how we operate is accountability and transparency. And going back earlier in the conversation, you know, I don't want this podcast ever to be a commercial for marketing refresh. My goal with this podcast is to learn about what our market needs so that we can constantly learn and do a better job of serving the market. But, we actually encounter companies sometimes that I think initially like that we have that accountability and transparency, but it also results in them having to be accountable to things that we need to be able to do our job.

And not everybody loves that part that component of the relationship. I just don't think that you can successfully outsource a function, any part of your business without having to take part in how that relationship is managed and directed and held accountable also and that accountability goes both ways. So I think people who aren't prepared for that, it's it's probably not a great point in time to do that outsourcing

to the marketing department. I I totally agree with that. And, again, I I I would say that is gonna be true of that of of all your stakeholder classes, but it's gonna really show up in the stakeholder class of outsourced vendors or partners. We, because, again, if if you don't know who you are with regards to your vision, your strategy, your plan, then how are you gonna partner with someone and them actually help you? What are they helping you with? Right? And and that could be your marketing partner or an outsource design and engineering firm in India. You know, saying this. Irregardless of of what that partnering relationship is, it's that clarity around self that I think I think it has to start there. Because if you don't have that, then it's really hard to progress through the process and on the journey together.

Yep. Yeah. Well, we can probably shift gears into the rapid fire questions I have. Okay. And they're they're

I've got my cheat sheet written down on my whiteboard. I'm ready to go.

Good. Okay. So start with this one. What is the best trip, your favorite trip that you've ever taken?

Lake Louise in Alberta, Canada. So there's one and only one hotel that sits on the lake. It's a crystal clear glacial lake, in Northern Alberta. And the food's fantastic. The the scenery's fantastic, so on and so forth. But during the spring summer months, you can either hike up to see the glaciers and or you can ride pack horses up, and my wife and I did both. There's probably about 5 miles up. There's a tea house that's been there for a 152 100 years where you can stop and get a little refreshment.

Be prepared to see everything from moose to to grizzly bears. And so, yeah, just just a just a a great time. Beautiful place. Very serene. Very natural. Not overcrowded.

Okay. Yeah. That sounds amazing. And just knowing the 2 of you, if they found a way to bring horses into the picture too, that was, like perfect for the 2 of you. Okay. Next question. Is there a musical artist or group that if you could see them in concert so they can be from the past, the present, anything. Who would it be?

Hands down, Louis Armstrong. And, unfortunately, Louis Armstrong, died in 1971, a few months before I was born. And so I I did not ever get to see Louis Armstrong in concert, but one of the first because of his role in The Jungle Book, playing King Louie. He was one of the first sort of iconic voices that I can remember as a as a young kid, and then just remained a fascinated both with his deep bass voice as well as his you know, I think one of the better trumpet players that America's ever produced. And so he's he's one of about 5 artists that I listen to almost every day, almost always in the evening, in between the time I get home and sit down, for supper with the family.

You know, you think you know someone I would never that would not have been my guess for you. So that that is really interesting to find out. Okay. Next question. What is the number one book that you find yourself constantly recommending to people?

Dune by Frank Hebert. I say Abare. I think a lot of other people say Herbert. But, Dune. Yeah. And, yeah, one one of my favorite books and, you know, I've done as I've been on my journey, my my personal and professional journey, I've worked and lived in a lot of countries. And so I have I've lived and worked in Malaysia, in India, in Mexico, spent months at a time in in China and Tanzania. And so the again, Red Dune, when I was in junior high, and it always, stuck with me.

I read it again here recently about a year ago, when you're operating in an environment that's not your home.

I'm gonna have to check. I've never read that book, which is I'm a big reader, and I've I've never read that one. That's on my list now. I'm okay.

I'll ship you a copy.

There we go. My last question. What is the best job you've ever had?

Okay. Hands down c being CEO of my family.

So Aw. That's awesome. Yeah. Although, I know your wife, and I kinda beg to differ on that topic.

My wife is CFO of our family.

Okay. Alright. Okay.

Great. I'm I'm I'm the CEO of our family and and she's the CFO of our family and and we we are very much an extended family. We we live very closely with 3 generations, but both the one before us and the one after us, very involved as as a family, again, across multiple generations. And and everybody understanding what's in it for them, creating alignment, whether it's with my wife's parents or our children. And and then going out and executing on that on that vision and and everybody, being happy and being attracted and not repelled. So

Yeah.

I I obviously have a very singular view of the universe and of human organization, but but yeah. So being CEO of my family is definitely has always been and remains the best the best gig on the planet for me.

That's awesome. I love that. That's one of the many reasons that we really value we're knowing you and working with you is that answer. Exactly. Love that. Well, Cody, thank you so much for spending time with me today. I think you talked about a lot of different things that are gonna help our listeners. So I really, as always, appreciate your generosity.

Excellent. Appreciate it. Thank you, Terry.

Thanks for listening. Please be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast channel and leave us a review. We'd love to hear from you. You can connect with me on LinkedIn or visit our website at marketingrefresh.com.