Shownotes
In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Katrina Ali, Head of Human Resources at Freebee, to talk about how HR can move from AI skepticism to practical action while keeping people at the center of the function.
Katrina shares how her perspective shifted as AI moved from a tech conversation to a workplace conversation. After hearing questions from employees and seeing uncertainty across the HR community, she worked with legal counsel and the C-suite to establish company-wide AI usage guidance and help employees understand how to use AI responsibly.
The conversation gets practical with examples from Katrina's HR team, including how they used automation in ClickUp to streamline onboarding and offboarding workflows. Instead of treating AI as a replacement for HR, Katrina frames it as a way to remove repetitive work so HR teams can spend more time on strategy, culture, manager coaching, employee experience, and trust-building.
Katrina also talks about what HR leaders need to prove to the C-suite in an AI-enabled workplace, why future HR talent needs both people skills and technology fluency, and how benefits and wellness investments can help growing companies attract and retain employees.
Topics Discussed:
- How Katrina moved from AI skepticism to action in HR
- Why AI conversations quickly became workplace conversations, not just tech conversations
- How HR partnered with legal and the C-suite to create responsible AI usage policies
- Why employees need clear guidance on when and how to use AI
- How Katrina challenged her HR team to find automation opportunities in their own workflows
- How ClickUp helped streamline onboarding and offboarding tasks
- Why removing repetitive HR work can make the function more human
- How HR can explain its value to operations-focused executive teams
- Why AI cannot replace human judgment, empathy, trust, and employee support
- What future HR leaders need to balance: technology fluency, data, strategy, and people skills
- Why HR professionals cannot leave AI entirely to the technology team
- How benefits, 401(k), and wellness programs support retention in a growing company
If you are an HR leader trying to move your team from uncertainty to practical AI adoption, this episode offers a grounded look at how to start small, build internal confidence, and use automation to create more space for strategic and human work.
Additional Resources:
Transcripts
AI isn't here to replace people, right?
2
:It's here to remove repetitive work.
3
:it can't replace the HUMAN JUDGEMENT
and EMPATHY that HR requires
4
:and what
5
:Katherina Ali: does is free
up time instead of spending
6
:hours on administrative tasks.
7
:HR teams can focus more on
8
:the strategy The Strategy
9
:The Culture
10
:The Employee Experience
11
:because at the end of the day
12
:The heart of HR is always people
13
:Thomas Kunjappu: They keep
telling us that it's all over.
14
:For HR, the age of AI is upon
us, and that means HR should
15
:be prepared to be decimated.
16
:We reject that message.
17
:The future of HR won't be handed to us.
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:Instead, it'll be defined by those
ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.
19
:Future Proof HR invites these builders to
share what they're trying, how it's going,
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:what they've learned, and what's next.
21
:We are committed to arming HR
with the AI insights to not
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:just survive, but to thrive.
23
:Hello and welcome to the Future Proof
HR podcast, where we explore how forward
24
:thinking HR leaders are preparing for
disruption and redefining what it means
25
:to lead people in a changing world.
26
:I'm your host, Thomas Kunjappu
Today's guest is Katherina Ali,
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:Head of human Resources at Freebee.
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:Katherina leads HR for a fast-growing
organization has been at the center of
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:multiple transformations for modernizing
benefits policies to re-engineering
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:HR workflows with automation and ai.
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:What makes Katherina's story compelling,
I think you will find is how quickly
32
:she's moved from AI skepticism
to action in a span of months.
33
:She's helped establish company-wide AI
usage policies, partnered with legal
34
:and C-Suite, and challenged her team
to redesign everyday processes, turning
35
:manual systems into scalable ones.
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:Her approach reflects a core belief,
which is that AI isn't here to
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:replace hr, but to free it up for
more strategic and human work.
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:Welcome to the podcast.
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:Katherina Ali: Thank you for having me.
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:It's a pleasure to be here.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: Absolutely.
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:really cool company.
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:Could you tell us about, the journey?
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:So how small was it when you were with
it and in the beginning because that
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:evolution gives us some context, I
think for the rest of our conversation.
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:Katrina Ali: Of course.
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:So when I started with the company, it
was in:
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:It was only myself, first it was like
an HR person that was there and then
49
:they left, and then it was just me
and we started growing really fast
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:and like building that department.
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:We're now at, today we're at about.
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:500 and 80 something, I wanna say
86 employees were growing really
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:fast, had to build out all the,
like the department had to build
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:out all the structure, the coaching.
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:So it's, I would say it's very much
exhilarating for me to have this type of
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:experience and to be with the company.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: And it's really
interesting because this company, the
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:whole experience is in the post COVID era.
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:And in fact, that's part of
what the, company itself does,
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:which, I think it's, really cool.
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:It's like worth a mention
because it's like a really
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:interesting consumer, company.
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:Could you share a little bit
about what a Freebee does and if,
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:anyone out there is like listening
where they can get in a ride?
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:Katrina Ali: Yes, of course.
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:So we are a electric
transportation company.
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:We're eco-friendly.
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:We take pride in, of course, our
passengers,, it's completely free.
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:So you just, you download the app, the
Freebee app, and once you're within
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:the geofence, you can request a ride.
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:So we're similar to any transportation,
you download the app, you request a ride.
72
:But it cannot take you from, say we're
in Aventura to North Miami Beach.
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:Every city has its own geofence, and
so you have to be within that geofence.
74
:You can't go from city to city, but you
can go within areas within the city.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: That's great.
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:And then you end up working with
cities right themselves to enable
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:this, which is a really cool model for.
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:Like working with local governments
in enabling transportation.
79
:And so as you scale into different places,
beyond Miami, I'm sure on the HR side,
80
:there's been a lot of, a lot of changes.
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:Katrina Ali: Yeah.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: Now, I would, we'll come
back to that as a broader HR team, but for
83
:you specifically on a personal level, when
we're, chatting before, you had a, an oh
84
:wow moment with, with AI at some point.
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:Katrina Ali: Yes, definitely.
86
:So at first going into like with
everything coming to, coming
87
:about, at first it was just like.
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:When we heard about ChatGPT,
it felt a little experimental.
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:People were curious about
playing around with it.
90
:It didn't feel like, it didn't immediately
feel like something that will be part
91
:of the everyday HR work, but what really
shifted my perspective was, seeing
92
:how quickly it was evolving and how
much, time it could save when there's
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:certain things that we do consistently,
like documentation, communication,
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:analysis, and even like idea generation.
95
:So at the same time I started
attending like networking events
96
:and conferences and it was.
97
:A discussion that was more like, it moved
from being more tech discussion to more of
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:like, how is this changing the workplace?
99
:And what stood out to me is that a
lot of HR professionals was a bit
100
:unsure because there was no type of
guidance on what to do, how to use it.
101
:So for me it was just like an awakening.
102
:I need to get on board with this.
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:I need to do a little of my own
experiments, make sure that I can
104
:prepare my team and my company to, start
to adapt to this transition because I
105
:didn't know where it was gonna go and.
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:That's what I went back, I went into,
I dug into it and started like looking
107
:at different things and first I started
using it as email responses, just the
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:little things and then making sure like
I was able to address it with the team.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: So at the beginning
when it became impossible to ignore,
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:what were the, what, I guess what, even
before the, what you did specifically,
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:you already got into some use
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:Katrina Ali: Yeah.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: I ideas, but I'm
curious what is it that, solidified it
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:in your mind to say, oh yeah, this is.
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:We can't, ignore,
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:Katrina Ali: It is just like every
networking and every conference is just
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:like AI and vibe coding and what are
we doing and is it gonna replace jobs?
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:And like how do we use it?
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:And I'm just like, how this is
just it's like all over the place.
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:Like it's a bit overwhelming and.
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:I need to teach myself on how to do it.
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:Because at first I'm just
like, who is responsible for
123
:rolling this out to the company?
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:Is it the C-Suite team?
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:Is it the operations team?
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:And it's was HR, like, it
was encompassing everything.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah.
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:If you have to ask the
question, wait, who?
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:And you're looking
around, it's there you go.
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:You can yeah.
131
:Guess where that ends up at?
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:But that's almost like
another phase, right?
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:Which is oh, we need to roll this out.
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:We need to have a policy.
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:We need to, do all that.
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:How did you, in your
organization, end up going from.
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:This is impossible to ignore, to,
okay, we have a policy and we have
138
:like more structure and we're gonna go
into it both on the HR team and also
139
:more broadly across the functions.
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:How did that evolution happen?
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:Katrina Ali: So at first we had, I
had based on, other than the network
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:events, I had him, my employees asking
about it and asking what it means.
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:What does it mean for them?
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:What does it mean for the company?
145
:Because they're hearing it from, their
friends and their other work colleagues.
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:And so with that, I was able to,
reach out to my legal counsel and
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:just talk about, what was going on,
what the noise that I was hearing.
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:In that sense, and how can I prepare
my my C-Suite team and the company
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:into making sure that when we use it
responsibly and that we have because
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:everything is recorded, right?
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:So we wanna make sure.
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:How we're using it and the information
that we're putting in, it's what
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:we should be putting and it doesn't
cause any liability for the company.
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:So with that, got together with my legal
counsel and we created a AI usage policy.
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:And then with that I was able
to, first talk to my C-suite.
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:Team and make sure that they,
how they feel comfortable with
157
:the policy and get their approval
to roll it out to the employees.
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:And that was the next step, rolling
out to the employees, making sure that
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:they understand how to use it, when
to use it, what it's, what to use it
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:for, which is of course leading to
what's mitigating the mundane tasks.
161
:Like we have a lot of, especially in
hr, we have a lot of administrative
162
:tasks and this was something that
can free up Our workload and make
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:our work more efficient and more
effective in what we do in day-to-day
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:Yeah, let's talk more about the HR
specific, set of use cases, right?
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:So how did you go from for
the HR team specifically?
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:from okay, we have a policy and
like now we need to convert that
167
:into real, hopefully outcomes.
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:What was that process to, and in fact,
even in the HR team, just like with,
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:Any employee population, you have some
folks who are all in and interested and
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:wanting to innovate, and others who are
all fear and all like against it, maybe
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:even philoso, philosophically, how do you
navigate that, if this, if such a dynamic
172
:existed within the HR team to get to the
point where you're actually, working with.
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:Katherina Ali: I actually love
telling this story because it is
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:one of my oh wow moment oh my gosh,
like a proud moment for my team.
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:So while, based on me first experimenting
and seeing how it works, my first.
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:To get the buy-in from the
team and for them to understand
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:it, especially to use it.
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:I didn't want it to be like a top
down this is how you use a program.
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:Like a directive.
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:I wanted to challenge them so that
they can fully understand it, because
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:sometimes, most times, like we, I.
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:We are told to do something, but when
we're the ones in charge of doing
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:it, we really understand the reason
why behind it and it empowers us.
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:And that's what I'm all
about, empower my team.
185
:So I had a meeting with 'em and
my team of six and I sat down
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:with 'em like, Hey, this is what's
going on and we need to get ahead.
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:We need to start using AI, and we need
to start seeing based on what we do in
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:our workflow, how does this benefit you?
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:How can you, each one of you.
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:Get together, like separately or together.
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:But I want each one of you to look at
what you do on a day to day and how
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:it will work, how AI and automation
can integrate in that workflow to
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:make, to make your workflow more
efficient and more effective, and
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:save you time to do other stuff.
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:Other projects, and, they all went ahead.
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:I gave them a deadline and then I
had another meeting, ordered food
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:for them, like a lunch and learn.
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:And we sat there and they each
presented their own thing.
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:And one was, my onboarding specialist,
did this whole great thing of automation
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:with the workflow on our system called
a task management system called Clickup.
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:First I was, with onboarding
specifically, which was like a big thing.
202
:so a lot of like repetitive tasks
where you send like emails and stuff
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:was on spreadsheet and following up
with the driver and the documents,
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:and sometimes things can get lost.
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:But with this AI automation.
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:She was able to build like a thing in
Clickup where, you put the name in and
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:it goes straight into the week of the
onboarding, and then you can just, you set
208
:up the prompts where it sends the email
When you click the button, it's amazing.
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:You click a button and it sends an email
of who the manager is, the platforms that
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:they need to download the next steps.
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:And then from that it
goes into the I nine.
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:And then when the I nine is completed
based on the integration from
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:our HRI system, it automatically
moves it to the next step.
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:So that was amazing.
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:And also was like another
one was the offboarding.
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:That was another thing
that was on spreadsheets.
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:and the term reason, the term date.
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:And we were able to also do it on Clickup
'cause it was linked to the onboarding.
219
:So when the, on like the employees
are no longer with us, we put like a
220
:termination date and it automatically
populates with the AI automation
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:into the onboarding offboarding board
where it generates the term date.
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:The, email for the employee to click
another button where it sends an
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:exit interview and the, term date.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: So all these are
just manual steps otherwise, that the
225
:whole team is going through and it
strikes me that, at least a significant
226
:portion of the example, and I love
that we're getting so concrete, right?
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:Within onboarding and offboarding.
228
:it's really even just the automation
layer, which kind of proceeded,
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:I would argue, the AI layer, but.
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:I wonder if a big piece of AI in this
specific project is the confidence and
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:capability for your team to go in and get
to this level of depth automation because.
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:The, which maybe otherwise would take,
some kind of, you're, you have to deal
233
:with and understand APIs and be a software
engineer and get to that kind of level.
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:But now it's actually democratizing
some of those things that were, would
235
:take hours and, training and, just work
experience to be comfortable with that
236
:can actually go to, more HR generalists.
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:Would you say that's part of
the like how this came to be?
238
:Katherina Ali: Yes I definitely,
because again, like you wanna, we as
239
:hr, like we have so many repetitive
tasks, so many administrative tasks, so
240
:any way that we can build this out, of
course building it out is, takes time.
241
:But once it's built out and they do their
research and everything is in there.
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:It's easy moving forward so much easy.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: So culturally would,
do you think like that, the idea of a,
244
:okay, here's a gauntlet, we're gonna come
back and you give more than a day, but
245
:there's some, in some reasonable time,
let's try, let's come all, come back.
246
:has that, changed the culture or is it,
did it feel like a one time kind of thing
247
:where we have this project, that we.
248
:Kind of, at one specific set of things.
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:Katherina Ali: Oh no, it actually
changed, like when that meeting happened
250
:and they were able to see what they're,
they can accomplish Now it's just every
251
:other day it's oh, we can automate this.
252
:We can automate this.
253
:I'm like, okay.
254
:Slow down.
255
:That's a good time.
256
:But I would say it definitely increased
the accountability, the, feeling like
257
:empowered oh my gosh, like I actually
built this and this actually makes life
258
:easier, not only for me, but anybody
that's coming, anybody that's new.
259
:As we're growing, we're
gonna get more staff.
260
:So it's like that accountability aspect
and that empowerment aspect and the.
261
:More focused on like other projects
and more focused on people, because
262
:that's essentially what HR is, right?
263
:For the people.
264
:Making sure that we build that culture
where everybody feels good at work.
265
:So we are able to now with those.
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:AI automation, we're able to, give
more time and have more engagement with
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:employees and making sure we, do certain
things for 'em to feel appreciated.
268
:And, making 'em sure they feel
really as the Freebee family.
269
:'cause we call ourselves a Freebee
family, so they're able to, talk
270
:that through with them and, make them
feel instead of like every time they
271
:talk to them it's just oh, you have
to send this, or you didn't do this.
272
:It was more like, Hey, how's this going?
273
:How do you feel?
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:Because.
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:AI already did all of it.
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:Thomas Kunjappu: So you're actually
seeing that thing where the
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:idea, that's the promise, right?
278
:That the, the job can change specifically
in hr, it can actually be more human.
279
:So
280
:there's less time on the administrative.
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:And you've already seeing
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:Katherina Ali: yes.
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:I've already seen it.
284
:Thomas Kunjappu: So if that's
the case, do you think.
285
:AI is taking jobs or changing them,
and specifically with the HR team
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:that they're, and sometimes there's
skepticism, there's fear, right?
287
:There's a lot of, that,
That vagueness around the
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:This has been a fantastic
conversation so far.
289
:If you haven't already done so,
make sure to join our community.
290
:We are building a network of the
most forward-thinking, HR and
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:people, operational professionals
who are defining the future.
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:I will personally be sharing
news and ideas around how we
293
:can all thrive in the age of AI.
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:You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary
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:community.
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:Now back to the show.
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:positive element, but very like clarity
around like how the today can change for
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:so many people about their jobs and, the
risks involved and it's something that,
299
:to some degree, every HR team needs to
navigate for their entire stakeholder
300
:base, like employees across the board
and certainly within the HR team, itself.
301
:How is that, if you just take the
microcosm of your HR team itself,
302
:like how is that play playing out and
what do you think, how do, what do you
303
:think that evolves to more broadly?
304
:Katherina Ali: yeah, I would say
because if I've had the question,
305
:I have had the question where
it's like, what does this mean?
306
:As it transform, because it's
only gonna get better, right?
307
:In terms of technology.
308
:and when they worry about their role
being with ai, replacing it, I always
309
:try to reframe the conversation.
310
:Ai, like I tell them,
311
:Katrina Ali: AI isn't here
to replace people, right?
312
:It's here to remove repetitive work.
313
:Katherina Ali: that slows us down.
314
:Like it, especially in hr, like
so much of what we do as human.
315
:And it's about, like it's
about relationships, trust.
316
:Coaching leaders and supporting employees
and navigating through complex situations.
317
:So technology can support the work, but
318
:Katrina Ali: it can't replace the human
JUDGEMENT and empathy that HR requires.
319
:And what
320
:Katherina Ali: AI
321
:does is free up time instead of
spending hours on administrative tasks.
322
:HR teams can focus more on
the strategy, the culture,
323
:the
324
:The employee experience.
325
:So that's my way of reframing it.
326
:Hey, now we can, focus on the bigger
picture of relationships, getting that
327
:trust from employees, like knowing that
HR is always present, like coaching the
328
:leaders on how to interact with employees.
329
:And that's where I drive it to like it's.
330
:More, it helps us be more data-driven
and more comfortable to work alongside
331
:and we have to work with technology.
332
:Because at the end of the day,
the heart of HR is always people.
333
:Thomas Kunjappu: That's a great sentiment.
334
:Let me play the devil's advocate here.
335
:And I'm just wondering, so do other people
around the C-suite believe that too?
336
:Katherina Ali: Yes.
337
:Thomas Kunjappu: Meaning professionals
may have this like vision and there's
338
:always been this conversation about
a seat at the table and maybe now
339
:this with this latest wave, right?
340
:Whether it was COVID or any kind of,
or now ai, like big wave and shift
341
:is, there's an opportunity, right?
342
:For HR to be.
343
:Less reactive, more proactive, more
strategic seat at the table, all that
344
:kind of stuff.
345
:So do you sense that is, what is
being demanded from the market or
346
:from C-suites or, like executive teams
and boards that we all work with, are
347
:they demanding that more, from us?
348
:Katherina Ali: I would say luckily
not my CC team, but I think it's
349
:definitely something, because with
this there is a question like,
350
:because AI can do all of this.
351
:Do we really need the staffing?
352
:For it.
353
:but again, it's our role as HR
professionals to show our C-Suite team.
354
:Yes we do.
355
:At the end of the day
AI can't show empathy.
356
:They can't solve problems that, like
in certain investigations that happen,
357
:it can provide like the right thing to
do or based on the research, but those
358
:conversations need to have that — we
need to get them, get their buy-in
359
:because again, they're operations.
360
:They think operation.
361
:It's our job to show them the
people behind the operation.
362
:Thomas Kunjappu: That is so how do you
show them that the people behind the
363
:operation, that's like a, I feel like
it's a key kind of question because the,
364
:I mean you're, we are agreeing with the
premise the first step, which is, yeah,
365
:there's a lot of repetitive administrative
work and compliance driven work, which
366
:is core to what needs to happen in hr.
367
:And then the operators, they
believe that needs to get done.
368
:Obviously keep hire, fire,
keep the company compliant.
369
:We need that.
370
:So if a lot of that is going towards.
371
:AI
372
:to help us automate more
and more of this stuff.
373
:And we want to, we wanna uplevel
and I'm with you all the way
374
:there, but then
375
:Katherina Ali: Yes.
376
:Thomas Kunjappu: we need to
take the C-suite along with
377
:us on that journey, right?
378
:They need to also agree that
this is that there's value
379
:here.
380
:What, and especially with your
conversations with peers, right?
381
:So what is that?
382
:How can we communicate that value
to the C-suite for, this, this human
383
:element and, empathy and, piece of
the role that, puts it all together,
384
:and process together to the people.
385
:And, keeping that like still
relevant, for the C-Suite.
386
:Katherina Ali: I would say,
one of the conversations that I
387
:had with my C-suite when it was
raising like questions, it just.
388
:Showing them like, okay, the part
of this is what AI does, from a
389
:technical technological standpoint,
and this is what, HR does from a people
390
:standpoint and having them understand
that, okay, we can provide the data.
391
:Yes, it's, it's more effective in time.
392
:But with that time that we're saving,
especially as we scale, we're gonna
393
:have to, we're building employee morale.
394
:Every, employees function better when
they feel appreciated and having HR
395
:have that more time to do engagement.
396
:So we're focused on wellness is a big
thing especially in the transportation.
397
:Like our drivers are,
sitting down most of the day.
398
:So it's building and wellness
initiative having their, do certain
399
:things, host certain events.
400
:Focusing on that in that regard is where.
401
:For me, I was able to get through
to my C-Suite team to understand the
402
:buy-in of we still need our people.
403
:We still need hr, our HR team,
to do certain things in terms
404
:of doing those events and making
those employees feel appreciated.
405
:And doing those, having those
engagement and connecting the managers,
406
:training the managers, coaching
them on how to, how, interact with
407
:their employees and so from that.
408
:More was able to understand okay, yes, AI
is going to help, remove, the repetitive
409
:tasks, but we do need our HR team or
our people to, execute in that sense.
410
:Thomas Kunjappu: So that's a great, I
gotta say great treatise on how to en
411
:engage with, skeptical C-Suite, right?
412
:Which I think many leaders are like,
HR leaders are dealing with this.
413
:and, it's, an important
conversation because.
414
:I think being the ability
to do that future proofs.
415
:You as an HR leader and your function
right as, the function evolves and
416
:the demand for it evolves and what
you're doing day to day evolves,
417
:you've gotta continuously make
the case for why this matters.
418
:And, it's not gonna be
given to you, right?
419
:Just because, 'cause when
we're in this time of a shift.
420
:There's gonna be, people are asking
bold questions like, wait, do
421
:we need this department anymore?
422
:and I'm, it's not just hr, it's like
literally, like you can have a version of
423
:that question for every like department,
but certainly, on the HR side, like
424
:we need to that conversation with
the C-suite and keep them appraised.
425
:It's both the C-suite as well as the team
426
:Katherina Ali: Yes.
427
:Thomas Kunjappu: To keep
them moving forward.
428
:So speaking of moving
forward, if you had to.
429
:I guess project out a couple years.
430
:What do you think the future of HR.
431
:Is, starting to evolve towards, from,
even do you imagine like different titles
432
:or the an example is with COVI, right?
433
:There's a whole bunch of new policies
and new types of things that were
434
:just never, and a whole new type of
working way of working with remote
435
:work that just got brought into.
436
:What the HR function is doing, and
maybe there's some versions of that,
437
:like with ai, but in an AI enabled
world, what do you think the HR
438
:team is going to evolve in towards?
439
:Katherina Ali: from my perspective,
the biggest thing I would say
440
:is how we spend our time, right?
441
:As automation continues to handle more
of the repetitive and administrative
442
:tasks, I would say HR and our team could,
would be able to focus on more strategy.
443
:Leadership development, employee
experience, the role of HR will continue
444
:to shift from operational support and
being a true business partner, right?
445
:We'll be working more closely with
leadership and trying to solve workforce
446
:challenges and that, And help shape the
culture direction for the organization
447
:and enable ai, and AI enabled world.
448
:The HR leaders who will be more
successful, I would say, are the ones
449
:who can balance both sides, understanding
technology and data, and of course
450
:being deeply focused on people.
451
:Skills and strategic thinking,
adaptability, communication, and of
452
:course emotional intelligence will
become more important because at the
453
:end of the day, technology can help us
operate smarter, but the real impact
454
:of HR will always come from how well
we support and develop our people.
455
:Thomas Kunjappu: So you don't think
there's like much of a trade off?
456
:You need to do both
457
:Katherina Ali: Yeah.
458
:Thomas Kunjappu: one, like need to
like contend with AI as a technology.
459
:Also be deeply, integrated into the
business side and the relationships
460
:within the organization because a case
I've heard, tell me how you'd react to
461
:Katherina Ali: Okay.
462
:Thomas Kunjappu: actually,
yeah, like we let the technology
463
:people figure out the AI stuff.
464
:We're gonna focus on, people and
one-on-ones with managers, coaching,
465
:development, empathy all these
kind of things that you said.
466
:And, we get to stay out of.
467
:The AI part of it because or at
least an HR BP could say that, right?
468
:As a head of hr, maybe you don't
have that luxury 'cause you have
469
:to deal with all the operations.
470
:But is there a future for someone who's
like going into HR to be completely,
471
:not leveraging AI technology and like
being aware of it because they're just
472
:so good at the all the other aspects of
the business and empathy and coaching.
473
:Do you think that's possible for,
let's say someone who's just gonna
474
:do a master's in HR or is looking at
their like first HR job that they can
475
:just go completely in that direction?
476
:Katherina Ali: Honestly, no.
477
:I
478
:Thomas Kunjappu: Okay.
479
:Katherina Ali: honestly, no, and I
think any, anyone who think that,
480
:I think they need to do a little
more, a deep dive into it because.
481
:There's no way we can now because it's so
much in everything and it's not that, as I
482
:said, it's not something to be afraid of.
483
:It's something to embrace
as it's not a substitute.
484
:It's supplementary and.
485
:Understanding that and getting that
buy-in would help you understand yes,
486
:you do need to have that technological
side as well as you know what you've
487
:learned in school or and what have you.
488
:So you have to have that
balance and have to be both in
489
:order to succeed in your role.
490
:Thomas Kunjappu: Okay.
491
:A very clear like you but that's
good, that come, comes from this
492
:personal transformation, right?
493
:That you've had as well as the
HR team you've seen, You saw the
494
:there's a red pill, blue pill moment
and you went this direction and
495
:kind of see where that's led to.
496
:And, I guess it's hard to imagine
success in the other like other
497
:route.
498
:Put, just to really confirm,
499
:Katherina Ali: Yes.
500
:Thomas Kunjappu: if you, for anyone
that you're hiring, like for example,
501
:if you're hiring for like an HRBP
502
:type of role, would you not consider
someone who is extremely good at.
503
:dealing with being a coach to managers
work, like there, there's a million
504
:things that they can bring up, but
they are just allergic to technology,
505
:let's say, or just doesn't, don't
wanna be, u using these things.
506
:And they've got like this, super,
superpower right around, engaging
507
:with managers and coaches.
508
:I'm really trying to just push the
thinking all the way and, you had versus
509
:someone who is, quite as good at that,
but they're decent, but then they can
510
:also leverage tools and do a lot more.
511
:How would you think about that?
512
:Katherina Ali: That's an easy answer
for me personally, I would go with
513
:a person who is more tech savvy and
has that experience and relationships
514
:in building that culture, and not
someone who is just focused on that.
515
:Only because it's like you can't
do this type of thing, you have
516
:to actually have that buy-in.
517
:And if you don't, you are
not gonna be able to do it.
518
:Like I've seen myself, like you have to
be able to have that tech savvy and have
519
:that understanding I wanna automate this
because again, you're just gonna be stuck.
520
:You are gonna be creating
more work for yourself.
521
:And then that's gonna tie into oh my gosh,
like this is taking so long to do, which.
522
:We faced before because before AI
happened, I had it a lot like, oh my gosh.
523
:I wish it was an easier way,
and now there's easy way.
524
:Why are we so afraid of it?
525
:Let's embrace it.
526
:This is great.
527
:Thomas Kunjappu: So if you had to rewind
back to your skeptical self, like when
528
:you first started hearing about this
thing and you were like, not bought
529
:in and if you're talking to others
who are on that part of the journey.
530
:Like they're, They're fine and say,
okay, I keep hearing about this like
531
:AI thing and other people are talking,
are doing things in onboarding or
532
:in, like every part of the employee
journey and every aspect of what I do.
533
:so maybe I need to like, maybe, but I'm
not a hundred percent like convinced.
534
:but let's say like you're
right there in that moment.
535
:For someone like that, what would
you say would be like the first next
536
:steps right to, you'd recommend to
start to go from fear to some kind of,
537
:Katherina Ali: Excitement.
538
:Thomas Kunjappu: Oh yeah, maybe
excitement, maybe motivation
539
:is first what you need.
540
:But I, I was even saying just
skill or like understanding even.
541
:Katherina Ali: I would say
definitely like it's coming from
542
:because I was in that stage.
543
:I would say, first don't dive into, don't,
I wouldn't recommend diving into anything.
544
:just understand it first because
every industry is different
545
:and how to use certain things.
546
:So that's the first thing.
547
:Just observe how your company is
and what they do and how much.
548
:Of it is needed.
549
:And then once you observe that,
then you're able to say, okay, now
550
:I'm going to, start experimenting
myself on, doing different things
551
:like how I did it with my team.
552
:Challenge yourself.
553
:So my advice would be like,
challenge yourself into how this
554
:can work for you, because we're all
different, we all work different.
555
:So it's just how it works for you
and elaborate on that, expand on
556
:that, and then talk, and of course,
like I call it phone a friend.
557
:If you're not too sure about something,
there's no way, there's no need to
558
:reinvent the wheel phone a friend
and just, Hey, I'm having issues.
559
:What do you think about this?
560
:Do you think I should
make a policy for this?
561
:And then you'll be able
to get that guidance from
562
:somebody who already know it.
563
:For somebody coming in.
564
:So at first of course, we were all
on the same page with what is this?
565
:What do we do?
566
:But now we're past that.
567
:So if there was somebody else who's
coming in at that stage, we were,
568
:it's actually better for them because
now they have that guidance that
569
:it we didn't have in the beginning.
570
:So I think it's like a good thing.
571
:Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah, you can take
advantage of the lessons that others
572
:kinda learn to maybe get there a bit.
573
:A bit faster.
574
:Yeah, absolutely.
575
:'cause yeah, we are, the ChatGPT
moment is, it's been a few years at
576
:this point, since, it all has started.
577
:just like one more question, area I
wanted to explore with you while I have
578
:you, so when you're thinking about, I
guess is, HR transformation in general.
579
:We like to talk about
future proofing hr, right?
580
:So we've been talking obviously about ai,
but what other have you been looking at
581
:significant changes in across the company?
582
:I know when we're talking
583
:earlier, you're talking about
and how that's evolving,
584
:Katherina Ali: Yeah.
585
:Thomas Kunjappu: in your organization.
586
:I'm curious if, you
have any stories about.
587
:that, about how it's evolving
in this particular moment.
588
:And also if, does AI fit into it at all?
589
:But just how do you think
about benefits or other broader
590
:transformations within the HR team?
591
:Katherina Ali: yeah, of course.
592
:so another great thing
that we did, was 401k.
593
:we were able to, at first we, I was
getting, like not yet, not ready yet.
594
:And then we finally, we were able to get
it and that was something great for us.
595
:especially as a growing company, it
was something amazing for our drivers
596
:because some people don't even have
access to retirement fund, and that was.
597
:That was able to give
them that opportunity.
598
:So that was another big thing that,
we did as a company where we roll out
599
:401k and everyone was super excited.
600
:Of course, again, like they were
like, oh, what is going on here?
601
:Because again, some people don't even
know about what a four one K is, and.
602
:Even though they've been in the workforce
for a while and it's now is, it gives
603
:us more of retaining that talent,
being more attractive in the market.
604
:So that was based on that and having
that in our job posting that, oh, we have
605
:401k now we have a lot more applicants.
606
:We have a lot more longevity
with our employees.
607
:So that was another big thing
that we, I, we appreciated to
608
:have, we were able to have.
609
:Thomas Kunjappu: I love that.
610
:I think, Having a 401k was completely
something that startups were not.
611
:It's just oh, that's for mature
companies and, but if you're gonna
612
:especially have a diverse, from an age
group perspective workforce that you
613
:start up, you end up, not attracting
a whole bunch of cohorts, right?
614
:If you don't have that, and on the
flip side, you can be competitive.
615
:so do you think that's, so offering that
is absolutely great and it's especially
616
:for like drivers and folks who haven't
had access to something like this
617
:before experience of offering that.
618
:Do you think that's, the world of
benefits, do you see that that and
619
:other kinds of like new offerings
are starting to become more important
620
:along with just compensation?
621
:Katherina Ali: Yeah, I would say so.
622
:because again, some people it depends
on, your, what you want for yourself.
623
:For me, I definitely.
624
:Would prefer benefits, because benefits
tied into when you're not feeling well.
625
:Again, like we, in the past we
mentioned we experienced COVID
626
:where, that was an unfortunate time
and one of the things we need is
627
:benefits like good health insurance.
628
:So that's important where, where
we have good benefits in that
629
:regard and making sure that,
wellness is a very important thing.
630
:So having, like right now also to
the benefits, I have for my team
631
:where they have, they can get
like acupuncture, it's like weight
632
:loss, it's like massages, facials.
633
:So that's part of a package that
they get for free with our benefits.
634
:So it's more of that wellness
aspect and having to, have those
635
:things other than just compensation
636
:Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah, when you talk.
637
:Is almost, I think of it like
wellness versus workers' comp, right?
638
:It's it's like the proactive version.
639
:Yeah.
640
:Versus what you can do, right?
641
:Where versus doing things reactively
at the, when things come up.
642
:So maybe that's like a broader kind of
shift, I think even on the benefit side
643
:for what the HR team is, all about.
644
:so Katherina, I think that's about
all the time that we have today.
645
:if folks wanna follow your
journey and, hear more from you
646
:how can best connect with you?
647
:Katherina Ali: I would
say definitely LinkedIn.
648
:You can reach out to me on LinkedIn.
649
:It's Katherina on LinkedIn,
650
:Thomas Kunjappu: Okay, I'll
we'll put that in the show notes.
651
:And, thank you again for this,
conversation, where you know, Katherina,
652
:it was great to talk to you about
your personal journey from hearing
653
:about this thing, to really hearing
about this thing, to being skeptical
654
:to saying, wait a minute, we have to.
655
:now and the very specific approach
to challenging yourself and
656
:your team with a given deadline.
657
:Buy 'em lunch, but say this is real,
like it needs to happen by this time.
658
:We've gotta
659
:go and give 'em the space
and then make that happen.
660
:Katherina Ali: Exactly.
661
:Thomas Kunjappu: create
its own positive cycle,
662
:, Katherina Ali: Yes.
663
:Thomas Kunjappu: Going from.
664
:Like fear, skepticism towards
okay, experimentation and now
665
:we're actually getting some
666
:wins and you get into being proactive.
667
:Share this vision with you of
a future proof HR where you're
668
:spending less time on administration
and much more being strategic.
669
:Let's, get there bit by bit.
670
:And it's, what you said about it
being a supplement as opposed to
671
:being, as opposed to a substitute.
672
:I think that's a great, great message and
also a very real, wake up call, right?
673
:If you're not engaging with this
even if you're on the most people.
674
:type of job within hr, you're still
gonna be at a disadvantage versus
675
:those who are embracing this.
676
:And I think it's people are slowly
wrapping their minds around.
677
:So thank you for, this conversation.
678
:of course, those who are listening into
future-proof HR tend to be the folks
679
:who are already along that journey.
680
:so for everyone who's out there,
I hope you found some, tidbits of,
681
:practical advice and thoughts from this,
conversation with Katherina about how
682
:you can future proof your organizations
as well as your own HR function.
683
:So thank you once again Katherina,
and for everyone out there,
684
:I'll see you on the next one.
685
:Katherina Ali: Thank you.
686
:Thomas Kunjappu: Bye.
687
:Thanks for joining us on this
episode of Future Proof HR.
688
:If you like the discussion, make
sure you leave us a five star
689
:review on the platform you're
listening to or watching us on.
690
:Or share this with a friend or colleague
who may find value in the message.
691
:See you next time as we keep our pulse on
how we can all thrive in the age of AI.
