Artwork for podcast Getting Students to Write! Helping Elementary and Middle School teachers transform writing time
Episode 77 Let Your Students be the Prompts
Episode 77 • 24th September 2024 • Getting Students to Write! Helping Elementary and Middle School teachers transform writing time • Melissa C Morrison, Elementary, Middle School Writing Consultant, Literacy Coach
00:00:00 00:28:32

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Writing Prompts- they can be cute but looks can be deceiving!

Yes, they have their place and may be a needed activity for our elementary and middle school students in order to prepare for testing or other situations, BUT

They should not be the only writing students are doing on a daily basis!

In this episode, I explain the limitations of prompts, such as their failure to foster independent writing skills and their inability to engage students meaningfully.

You will also hear practical strategies for transitioning away from using prompts, emphasizing the importance of teaching students to generate their own ideas and connect personally with their writing.

I suggest ways to scaffold learning while nurturing a classroom culture where students see themselves as writers.

Specific tips include:

  • engaging students with different writing genres
  • allowing them to abandon pieces that don't work
  • and providing support where needed to build their confidence and skills

00:00 Introduction and Purpose

00:38 The Role of Writing Prompts

04:36 Limitations of Writing Prompts

07:54 Encouraging Independent Writing

12:32 Practical Steps to Move Away from Prompts

19:58 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

About Melissa:

Melissa is an enthusiastic educator and continuous learner with over 19 years' experience in education.  Her passion and expertise is transforming writing programs so that teachers are confident in writing instruction and student writers thrive! She strongly believes teachers are the key to effective instruction and their writers are their best resources.

Melissa knows that too often, explicit writing instruction is pushed aside in elementary education, and she feels it is her calling to help schools make it front and center, providing teachers with the knowledge and support necessary to implement effective and engaging writing instruction. 

Teaching to Transform, LLC was started by Melissa in 2018 and partners with school districts to provide professional development in writing instruction.

If you would like to refer Melissa to your district, check out her website below!

Website and Blog Read the latest blog posts and find out more about services provided by Melissa

Instagram Follow Melissa for tips and support with writing instruction!

YouTube Find out more about teaching writing as you watch webinars and model lessons taught by Melissa

LinkedIn Connect with Melissa!

Transcripts

Speaker:

Hey there, teacher.

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If you want to feel more confident as a

teacher of writing and you want writing

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time to be an effective and engaging and

enjoyable time for your students and for

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you, then you are in the right place.

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I am Melissa Morrison and I have a

passion for helping teachers to feel

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stronger about their writing instruction

and to really enjoy writing time.

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I don't promise a quick fix, but I do

promise to provide you with the ideas and

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practical strategies that will transform

writing for you and your students.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone):

Hello.

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Hello and welcome.

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I'm so glad you're here.

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I'm just going to go ahead and cut to

the chase about these writing prompts.

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Okay.

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First of all, let me say that

I have used them in the past.

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Let me also say that I think there

is a time and a place for prompts.

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One, we know that students have tests.

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It might be the unit tests that

you have with your reading program.

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It might be the state test

that, that we know we need to

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help prepare our students for.

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And so we do want to expose

them to different types of

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prompts that they might see.

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I also know that they can be

helpful with trying to restate a

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question, but I think we have lots

of questions that they can get asked

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where they can restate the question

without it being a writing prompt.

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I also think.

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That there are some students who may

need to use a prompt as a scaffold.

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For several reasons.

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That I'm not going to go into.

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Right now.

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However.

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I also do know and believe that writing

prompts cannot be the only type of

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writing that students are doing.

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They have to have other

ways to authentically.

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Right.

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And that means on their own.

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And that means that it's meaningful

and it's a type of writing that

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they're going to see in the world,

because other than test taking.

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Or maybe applying to college.

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Sometimes an interview.

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You're not going to see a lot of writing

that is prompted that our students,

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especially if they're going to need

to do now or that they're really

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going to need to do in the future.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-2:

I also like to say, just right off the

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bat here is that I know that oftentimes

writing prompts are implemented.

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Because there's nothing else provided.

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By you or district.

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To do for writing or you feel as though

what is provided is not enough or is not

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doing what is helpful for your students.

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And so when you don't have something

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from your district that is provided for

writing, and you're not sure what else

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to use, that's where prompts come in.

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And I understand, I understand that.

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And I know that teachers in that

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case, Are giving them prompts,

thinking that they are going to

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be helpful for their students.

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They're not trying to

do anything detrimental.

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They just are trying to get something

that will get some practice, um, of

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writing in there for their students.

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Another reason.

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I think the choice to implement prompts.

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Um, happens is because the teacher

wants to provide topics for students.

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when often we feel or see that

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students have trouble coming

up with things to write about.

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You might think that it gives

them a lot of different or a

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variety of topics to write about.

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You also might feel that because of the

questions that are being asked or the way

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the prompt is written, that it's going to

help them to write in complete sentences.

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There's quite a few things that I

think teachers feel that writing

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prompts are going to help with.

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And

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They feel that they're a good

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thing to use for their students.

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so now that I've shared those, those

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things with you and my, my beliefs

about why they're being implemented.

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And then that I don't completely

reject them because I do

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think they have their place.

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As I talked about before.

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But what I would like to share is

why I feel that they are not helpful.

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As daily tools for your writers and

what I think they do that is kind of the

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opposite of what we intend for them to do.

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And then finally, how I think you can

move away from the prompt into some

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simple steps for helping students

to, to move on from the prompts and

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to do writing in a different way.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-5:

So, as I said before, we know that

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oftentimes writing prompts are being

used because we think that they're

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going to be a nice way for students

to just get some practice writing.

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Right.

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But it really is actually

quite limited practice.

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I think that most often the

writing prompt is giving students.

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Practice in transcription.

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Mostly, mostly transcription and not

quite the process of writing for sure.

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Typically it's, it is quite limited.

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So sometimes maybe it says,

tell a story about blank.

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Okay.

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Well then that's a story, but

often it's answering a question.

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For example, it might say.

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There's going to be a new

subject implemented in school.

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What would you want that subject to be?

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And why would you choose it?

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Think about how you might

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answer that question.

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And how strong of a writing piece you

might be able to produce even now.

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As a grownup and how

interesting it would be, or just

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How well would you be able

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to answer that prompt?

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When I think of how to answer it, I just

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come up with a few sentences at first.

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And then if I really want to

stretch myself or go back and

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revise, I might get a couple more.

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I be a little more lengthy, a little bit

more complex sentences, maybe some better

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vocabulary, but I'm certainly not going

to write a three paragraph response.

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Um,

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It's just going to be, uh, you know,

I'm going to answer it in one sentence.

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What do I want and why I

might want it in a couple more

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sentences and that's about it.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-8:

Now if this prompt is a response to

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reading or like one of those constructed

responses where they have read two

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texts and they have to compare and

contrast, then, then yes, they're

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going to need to write a lot more.

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It will be more in the form of an essay.

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These questions are more

paragraph responses.

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And when you think about, like I

said earlier, the, the typical,

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like monthly packets that many.

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Students are having, is there only

type of writing during the day?

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They are going to be very they're

the responses that are needed

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really the way that it's formatted.

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They're going to be very short.

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Perhaps a couple of sentences

maybe enough for a paragraph.

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But it's just not very much we

need and want students to be

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writing so much more than that.

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We want them to be writing all

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different types of writing.

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And we want them to have some

short pieces, some long pieces.

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But we also want them to practice

all the parts of the writing process.

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So we think about

generating ideas, planning.

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Drafting revising and editing,

revising during the drafting.

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We want all of those things to happen

often and all of them are not going to

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happen when they're answering a prompt.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-9: And

this brings me back to what I was saying

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before, about how oftentimes teachers

feel like the prompt is helpful for

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students because it's giving them a topic.

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When I hear over and over from,

from teachers, they have trouble

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coming with up with a topic.

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They don't know what they

want to write about, but the

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thing is that's the problem.

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And that's the thing we

need to help them with.

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Part of the writing process

is generating ideas.

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It's a very big part

of the writing process.

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And so if students aren't able to do

that, we need to teach them how to do

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that and to help them be able to do that.

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So always providing them with a

prompt that gives them the topic is

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not allowing for that skill to be.

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Enhanced.

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And so back to saying, you know, that

sometimes maybe they need a scaffold.

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If you have a very reluctant

writer, Or you're in a new genre

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and, and someone is having trouble.

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You know, understanding the concept

of the drama, then me be a prompt.

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You would be helpful or maybe providing

choices of topics would be helpful,

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not just necessarily a prompt.

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Because then you're really

limiting the choice as well.

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But the idea would be that you

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provide the scaffold that you think

is going to be helpful all the while.

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Also trying to teach them strategies

for being able to come up with the idea.

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And then pull the scaffold away so that

they are able to do it independently.

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Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-9:

So I don't want us to try

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to mitigate a problem.

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Or to help a student with a

problem by giving them the answer

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or by giving them that step.

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I want us to then say, okay,

how can I help them to do that?

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Yes, it takes time.

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Yes, you need to teach it.

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Yes.

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They're going to need lots and lots

of practice and know they won't

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always come up with it on their own.

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But the.

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I don't believe it's a good choice,

a good instructional choice to

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provide prompts because students are

having trouble coming up with ideas

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because then we're just taking away.

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That time and that, that

ability for them to learn it.

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So now when they move on to the

next grade level, they are still

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going to have trouble generating

ideas because they never needed

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to do it in the previous class.

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It's just like, when you think about

learning to swim or riding a bike.

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If someone is always holding

the back of your bike, you never

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really learned to balance, right?

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And when you think about a child learning

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to ride a bike, The purpose is not usually

for them to be able to get somewhere.

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The purpose is just for them

to know how to ride a bike.

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And it's the same with the writing.

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The purpose shouldn't be that they can

get this piece of writing completed.

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So, whether we tell them what to write

or we help them write their sentences,

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you know, we're going to get it done.

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No, that's not the point.

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The point is that they know how to come up

with the idea and how to write it on their

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own, that they know how to be a writer.

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What's also limiting with the use of

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prompts or, you know, only using prompts

or using prompts so often is that.

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Idea of meaning.

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And connection for students because when

you think about a packet of prompts,

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How often are, is the student using it?

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Going to be connected to it or

feel interested in the topic.

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I can't imagine.

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It's all that often.

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So, yes, there's going to be some students

that are just compliant and they're

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going to answer it because , they can

and they, and they are okay with it

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and they can think of something to do.

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But more often than not.

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I think you're going to find that

there are students who don't like

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the question being asked in the

prompt or not connected to it.

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And aren't very engaged in it.

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And then if you also add the the fact

that they have trouble with writing

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trouble with writing letters or words

trouble with coming up with ideas and

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you know, for what they're going to rate.

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And not just the topic, but you know,

what are they going to say about it?

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And they're not connected to it.

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Then they're really not going

to do well, and it's just going

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to be frustrating for them.

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And then it's going to be

frustrating for you because you

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feel like they don't do the work.

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But really what you'll find is

they're not interested in it.

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You know, when I think about

that new subject being.

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The attitude, the school day.

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How many students are going to care

to want to really think about that?

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How many of them are really going

to go outside of the box and

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think of something that could be.

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A new or different kind of a class,

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that, they would really

be able to think about.

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So, although some prompts are

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certainly better than others,

they're going to be many that

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students just don't connect with.

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Don't feel like writing about.

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And so some days they might

have really good answers and

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other days they just won't.

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So now that I've shared some of my

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reasons for not wanting prompts to be.

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What students are doing all the

time and sharing why I feel like

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they're not really doing what we want

them to be doing for our students.

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Let me just talk a little bit

about what our goal really is for

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writing, and if you've listened

to previous episodes number 59.

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Which was writing isn't math,

but it's taught like it.

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And then episode 47, what

does writing mean to you?

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So both of those, I really go into this

idea of in At much more detail, obviously.

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But when we think about what writing

is and what we want our students to be

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doing, what did we want for our writers?

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Just like with any learning, we want

them to be able to be independent.

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Right.

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And so in order to be independent, they

have to be able to be engaged in it.

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They have to feel like they're somewhat

successful in it in order to T.

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Keep going.

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They have to practice a lot.

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Right.

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But when we think about

raining specifically.

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And you think about

what makes writing good.

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So it could be an

article that you've read.

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It could be a novel that you've read.

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It could be a research report, right?

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Although all of those types of writing

need to have certain techniques like

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certain structures I should say.

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And then obviously we want to

use our language appropriately.

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We want to have good

mechanics, grammar, spelling.

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All of that.

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Right.

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But ultimately, except for me being the

research writing, which really is it's

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very factual or, you know, you think

about like a science experiment report.

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It has to be a certain way.

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Right.

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But when you think about

an article, a novel speech.

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A podcast script, write a play.

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We want it to be.

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Powerful.

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We want it to evoke emotion.

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We want it to do the job that

it's intended and it's going to be

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unique from every single writer.

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A novel should be somewhat unique, right?

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And certain styles, certain type

of character, an article, even

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though articles may have facts.

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They're going to have a style of writing

that gets you to want to keep reading it.

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If you are doing an opinion piece

or perfect is persuasive speech.

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Yes.

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There are great techniques that

everyone might follow, but your

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style is going to be unique.

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And so we want our writers and need

our writers to be able to learn how to

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do all of those things, the technique,

the style, you know, the uniqueness

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plus using grammar and writing and

are in the language you want to

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write in appropriately or, well,

All of those things have to happen.

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And if we want them to be engaged in

writing and to want to write, to write

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for themselves, you know, writing is

therapeutic to write for their job.

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And to be clear communicators,

we want all of those things.

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We need them to know how to do

every part of being a writer.

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So we want them engaged.

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We want them to enjoy it.

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So they're going to need to connect to it.

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And we know that not all prompts

are going to allow that we want

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them to find it meaningful.

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They have to understand the purpose.

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Why am I doing this?

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Well, a prompt might not.

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Get that.

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I mean, the ones that I see don't

typically perhaps they could, but they

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don't typically we want them to learn

how to generate ideas, to think about

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what they would want to write about and

why they would want to write about it.

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They need to understand

what writing is for, right.

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They need to be able to write a long piece

of writing or a short piece of writing.

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Some prompts might be able to allow

for both, but typically you want to

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be more into the genre and then think

about all this different types of

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writing that they could be writing.

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Some of which I just mentioned.

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We want them to find

their own style and craft.

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Yes.

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We want them to learn

the techniques as well.

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Well, how many techniques are you going to

be able to teach or are you even teaching?

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If you're just giving them prompts?

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Typically when we give child, a prompt.

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We're not teaching them anything.

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We're just having them write something.

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And so that's another reason why,

if you're only using prompts,

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You're not having that opportunity

to be able to teach them all those

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things that we need them to learn.

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I know that.

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Using prompts makes things simpler.

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It is simpler to print out the prompts.

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And give them to your students.

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Maybe it seems simpler to be

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able to grade those prompts.

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Because everyone is doing the same thing.

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You might have an idea of what you

would like to see in their response.

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And maybe you have somewhat of a rubric

already for, this is what I'm looking for.

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This month, this unit, this year,

when you answer your prompts and this

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is how you're going to grade them.

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I do understand that, but I

also kind of disagree with it.

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Because even if it seems simpler

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to find these prompts already done

made for you, print it out and give

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it to them, it doesn't allow you to

teach your writers how to be writer.

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So that's not really

simpler because it's not.

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It's not going to.

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Help you reach the goal that

you need for your students.

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And then as far as being able to grade

it or get some kind of grade from it.

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I also think that's not making it simpler

because you're a starting with something

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that you don't even know if they are going

to do well with as far as do they like it.

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Are they going to be engaged in it?

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Is it something they even

have knowledge about?

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And then also.

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How much is it allowing them to really

do, is it allowing them to show you

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where they are and what they can do?

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One, you may have students

who are just at the drawing

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developmental level of writing.

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And so answering a prompt is

not all that possible for them.

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And then you're going to have others

who could write such amazing pieces.

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But the prompt that they're being

given is like for a paragraph.

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And it just isn't able to

show what they can really do.

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And although you may find that when you

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take away the prompt and you just want

students to write something on their

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own and come up with their own idea.

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Although we are going to

have students who, who can't.

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Or who don't want to, or

who don't write as well.

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Maybe they don't have those somewhat

complete sentences, although they

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might've been pretty simple sentences.

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Because when you're just

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answering a question.

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It's a little bit easier to turn it around

into a sentence, but when you are now

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coming up with everything on your own.

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Sometimes you're going to see

a little backtracking in that.

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Maybe you won't have

the complete sentence.

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So even though some students are going

to have trouble, it doesn't mean then

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we need to go back to saving them.

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It means we have to continue to.

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Provide the support.

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To give them the teaching that is

going to help them to keep moving up

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and their level of writing development

or in their skill level in writing.

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But what's also going to happen.

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Is you're going to see students get

excited because they see that they

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have the ability to write on their

own, that they can come up with

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:

their own ideas that get to write

about the things that they enjoy.

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They're going to find ways that they

are able to write You know, more

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strongly, they are going to start to,

you're going to start to see the things

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:

that they can do, the way that they

write, the silly things that they say.

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All kinds of things that you're going to

get to see from your students now that

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:

they have the autonomy the abilities you

be able to just be writers on their own.

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Now that I've hopefully.

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:

Got new on my side and you're ready

to ditch those writing prompts.

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Let me give you a few ideas for

how you can make this happen

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:

and set them up to be as.

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:

As successful as possible.

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Okay.

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So first you want your students to know.

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In any way that you can make this

happen, that they are writers,

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:

that you honor them as writers.

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Where they are right now.

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Wherever they are in their

development, whatever grade

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:

level you're in that they have.

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A writer inside of them, you

know, that they are writers and

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:

that you want them to learn.

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:

Who they are as a writer and what

they're good at and what they might

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:

need help on, and that you want to

see all the things that they can do.

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I also.

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Encourage you to do a little

bit of writing on your own.

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I have another episode that talks

about why you should write to,

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:

and it is extremely important.

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:

And instead of thinking it of as one

more thing to do with think of it

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:

as something that's going to help

you to get in the mindset of being a

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:

writer in order to help your students.

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:

And then also you'll have

something to share with them.

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If it's something you

write that is shareable.

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:

Something you can share with them.

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:

Uses a model and just show

show them that you are in this

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:

community of writers with them.

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:

So that episode talks about

how you can try to fit that in.

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:

So be sure to listen to that one as well.

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:

Why you should be a writer too.

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:

And.

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:

Then.

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:

Once you do that.

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:

And also that episode will share why

it's so helpful for you to do that.

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:

You're also just going to have a few

times where you talk to your students.

415

:

So before you really ask them to write

on their own, I mean, you don't have to

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:

do this before, but it might be helpful.

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:

You want to talk to them about

what writing is and why we use it?

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:

Why is it important?

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:

Have them think about all the different

types of writing they see out there.

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:

So every grade level is

going to be different, right?

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:

You want to share with them?

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:

Not only that it's helpful for

the, you know, learning they're

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:

going to do in the future jobs.

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:

They might have jobs they might want

to have, but also for themselves

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:

there's going to be some students who

already have a diary or a journal,

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:

some students that just like to write.

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:

But you want to share with them how

it can really be helpful for them.

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:

To do a little bit of writing.

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:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-18:

We'll also want to go over the different

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:

types of writing that they can do.

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:

Again, this will be different

in every grade level.

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:

So in kindergarten, I just tell

them they're going to write books.

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:

They're going to meet books, Matt Glover.

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:

Is he has many professional books

that he's written about this Katie

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:

would write as well, but down in

kindergarten, first grade, I just say,

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:

Hey, you guys are gonna do some writing.

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:

You seen these books that we've read,

you're going to make some books go

438

:

at it and they're going to do it.

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:

It might just be pictures.

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:

But they're going to do it.

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:

I give them folded up pieces of

paper that looked like a book might

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:

be stapled, might just be folded.

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:

I give it to them and I have them write.

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:

And then you'll start to see what they do.

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:

Some of them will not be in any

genre, cause they're just gonna,

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:

not even know what they're writing.

447

:

There's are going to be informational,

kind of all about books.

448

:

Others are going to be telling

you a story or others are going to

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:

be talking about what they like.

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:

In fourth and fifth grade.

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:

You're going to, you know, you will

have already talked about what kind

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:

of writing we see out in the world,

and then you can talk about genres,

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:

just like you do in reading the

genres you haven't been reading can

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:

be the genres you haven't rating.

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:

And how they can write any of those.

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:

I would really try to start if you're

not doing any writing units and you're

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:

really relying on prompts, I would start

by just doing an open John reunion.

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:

They get to write whatever they want to.

459

:

You give them examples of

this, these types of writing.

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:

You show them mentor texts, which again

could be a book or it could be an article.

461

:

It could be whatever it is, the

type of writing you talk about.

462

:

You find them to show them.

463

:

And then allow them to

play around with them.

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:

Try have them try a different

kind every day or every other day.

465

:

Again, depending on the grade.

466

:

Depending on how many types

you've gone over and depending

467

:

on how fast they're writing.

468

:

Allow them to abandon writing, just

like they can abandon books that they

469

:

just don't feel like are good for them.

470

:

They can abandon a piece of

writing and start something new.

471

:

Sometimes we pick a bad topic

and it's just not working out.

472

:

So we need to try something else.

473

:

You need to allow them

to make those decisions.

474

:

And allow them to kind of go

through, go through this process.

475

:

You can also have a couple of lessons

about how do we come up with ideas.

476

:

And if you look online, you'll

find all kinds of things.

477

:

But you know, you can

start with a feeling.

478

:

You could start with a person, you

could start with a place anevent.

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:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-34:

And then one student have written down

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:

some of these topic ideas that they've

had from whichever way that you just

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:

used, they would then think, okay,

well, what do I want to say about this?

482

:

What kind of writing is going to come up?

483

:

This?

484

:

Why do I want to write about this topic?

485

:

Who would I be writing to?

486

:

And then they'll start to see different

genres arise, different types of

487

:

writing arise because of their purpose,

because of who they want to write to.

488

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-35:

There's a technique and I have learned,

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:

and I wish I could give someone

credit for it, but I don't remember

490

:

who shared it, but it is that you

come up with a topic like a pet or.

491

:

Um, a place that the student has

been to, and then you show them how

492

:

you can write about that same topic,

but in different types of writing

493

:

or different genres of writing.

494

:

So when I think about my pet, I might

tell a story about when we got him or a

495

:

story when, um, he saw a skunk outside.

496

:

Uh, or I might.

497

:

Do an informational piece.

498

:

about him.

499

:

Or I might show some

kind of persuasive piece.

500

:

Um, About even trying to get another dog,

but using him as the starting off point.

501

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-36: I

think this technique has a dual purpose,

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:

because one, it's taking only one topic

and being able to get several types of

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:

writing out of it, or several pieces

of writing, if they're still wanting to

504

:

write about that same topic, but it also

really helps with the genre and having

505

:

students understand the differences in

the genre when you're keeping the topic

506

:

the same, that's like your control,

but everything else is changing.

507

:

So I think it can be

really effective for that.

508

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-19:

So after you've done some of those things.

509

:

My piece of advice would

be to give it time.

510

:

To remember that not every

student is going to be in, in

511

:

like a fully engaged right away.

512

:

You might need to find different

ways to get them engaged by finding

513

:

different things they might be able

to write about or want to write about.

514

:

You might then also find some

students need some scaffolding

515

:

might not be a prompt.

516

:

It might be more of a planner.

517

:

It might be more of a, you sit and help

them brainstorm what they could say about

518

:

their topic before they get started.

519

:

It could be, they need

some help withdrawing.

520

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-37:

And it might take a little

521

:

while to find out what they need

in order to be, more engaged.

522

:

You might find some things

work and some things.

523

:

don't work so well.

524

:

And it just might take more time

for some students than others as

525

:

far as really wanting to in right

to write or to enjoy writing.

526

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-19:

But don't give up.

527

:

Just because there are a few students who

aren't doing well and always remember to

528

:

look at all of the data that you have.

529

:

And when I say data, I mean, you know,

looking at your students, we are attracted

530

:

usually to the ones who aren't doing well,

and then we think this isn't working.

531

:

So I, I encourage you to also look

at the ones who are doing well

532

:

and you will probably find that

there's more who are than aren't.

533

:

So don't give up.

534

:

Remember that the things that

they're having trouble with, then

535

:

that's what you need to teach them.

536

:

Those are the things that you want to help

them with and find strategies to teach

537

:

them so that they can use them and to have

these tools in their writer's tool box.

538

:

But the only way our students are going

to become better at the things they're

539

:

not good at is to continue to try it.

540

:

And to continue to learn things about it.

541

:

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-20:

Right.

542

:

My friend, I have gone on for quite a bit.

543

:

This is a long episode.

544

:

I really hope you're encouraged and ready

to see what your writers can really do.

545

:

And I will be back next time.

546

:

Hello again, and thank you for

joining me on this episode.

547

:

I have a question and a favor to ask you.

548

:

If you are enjoying the podcast, could

you please share it with a colleague?

549

:

I would love to be able to get this

out to as many teachers as possible.

550

:

So send them a text, let them know when

you see them that it is worth the listen.

551

:

Thanks so much.

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