What’s it like to be coached by The Ultimate Coach himself, Steve Hardison, for more than 10 years? Jonathan Keyser speaks passionately about his first-hand experience as that client. You’ll find out how terrified Jonathan was in his first session with Steve as well as what he learned about himself…and why he continued investing in this coaching year after year.

Jonathan shares the biggest breakthroughs he experienced over time as Steve helped him peel back the layers of limitations he’d put on himself, and the freedom Jonathan was able to create in his business and personal life. You’ll love his honesty in talking about his family and his company, and you’re sure to be inspired by the inner peace he’s able to create every day to be grateful for everything that happens in his life.

About the Guest:

Jonathan is the founder of Keyser, one of the most innovative and trustworthy commercial real estate firms in the country. Along with their international partners, they have more than 560 people on their team worldwide.  Jonathan's efforts to change the business world through selfless service are reflected in his content, thought leadership, and the level of excellence he holds his team to within Keyser. He’s also the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Best Seller, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win.

https://keyserco.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathankeyser/

Book

You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win: The Art of Badass Selfless Service

https://www.amazon.com/You-Dont-Have-Ruthless-Win/dp/1544504268/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1659382381&sr=1-2

About the Host:

Meredith is the Co-founder and President of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home.

Meredith is an expert in leader and team communications, the author of three books, and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast. She co-authored her latest books, Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills, and Peer Coaching Made Simple, with her business partner, Dr. Dennis Coates. In them, Meredith and Denny provide how-to guides for improving communication skills and serving as a peer coach to someone else.

Meredith is also The Heart-centered Connector. One of her favorite ways of BEING in the world is to introduce people who can benefit from knowing each other.

https://growstrongleaders.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredithmbell

The Ultimate Coach Resources



https://theultimatecoachbook.com

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theultimatecoachbook

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14048056

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheUltimateCoachBook

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Welcome to The Ultimate coach podcast conversations from being inspired by the book, The Ultimate coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be. It is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply, visit theultimateCoachbook.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from being.

Hi, I'm Meredith Bell, and I am one of the CO hosts for the ultimate coach podcast. And with me today, I'm so excited to have Jonathan Keyser. Jonathan, welcome.

Thank you for inviting me, Meredith, pleasure to be on.

You know, I think it would be helpful to give folks a little bit of background about us because I've known you now for over three years, when I started my own podcast, you were one of my early guests, and we were having a great conversation around your book, you don't have to be ruthless to win. And in your book, you talk about your experience, so many things in your life, but in particular, your coaching experience with Steve Chandler, and then also with Steve Hardison. And so I know that you have coached with Steve for a number of years, and then packed how many over 10 over 10. So that's profound, you know, people who have just a little taste of him and a B with session or just from reading the book is very different than the investment you've made in your time with him. So I know there's a richness here that we can explore that will be so beneficial to our listeners. And what I would love to start with is a quote, that is in the book in chapter 25. The sky's the limit, and it's a quote from you, at the very beginning. And I want to read this because I think it's profound and is a great way for us to start. You said, when you're in that room, you really feel like anything is possible. You feel like whatever you want to do in life is attainable. You feel like whatever you want to achieve with Woz is within your grasp. There are no limits. So Jonathan talked about that. What is it like to be in the room with Steve, and experience this no limit thinking?

Well, at first, it's terrifying. So when I first met with Steve, and I talked about it in my book, of course, but when I first met with Steve, it was the most unnerving conversation I'd had in my entire life. I felt like, I felt like for the first time in my life, all of my all of the fake facades that I had created over time, he saw right through instantly, and I almost felt like I was naked up on stage and I couldn't get out of the room. And it's not that he wasn't gracious and kind because he was but I felt exposed. I felt vulnerable in a way that I had never felt with anyone else in my entire life. So at first, it was terrifying, unnerving. The conversation lasted three and a half to four hours. When I staggered out of that room after my be with session with him. I didn't know what happened. I never wanted to see him again. I just, I wanted to get out of there as fast as I was crying uncontrollably on the drive home, like I did not know what it just happened to me. And you know, well, that sounds overly dramatic and everything. The reality is, is that I had never had someone look within me in that way. And it was just generally scary to me. And then as that sort of faded and the fear sort of subsided over months, I started to see that that was where the access to whether that he had tapped into something that that was where the opportunity for growth was. And so despite continuing to feel trepidation, I decided to hire him and to really look at what I could do in my life to make massive and meaningful change. And my second experience was very, very different. My second experience, I guess now because the first six perience was so traumatic, but I never had a traumatic experience again, in that office, it was extraordinary. And what I wrote for that chapter is is exactly how it felt it, it truly felt like all the limits were gone. And I would even go so far as to say all the limits were gone, right, because the only the only difference between what I believed was possible and what was possible was was my belief of what was possible and what was not possible. And so being in a room where someone can see you, and is there just out of pure love, and service, which is what you do in life every day. And this is what I do everything in life every day. But he does it in such a pure way. It's such an in such knowingness behind it, that you really feel that the opportunity to create whatever existence you would like, is possible. And then you get to work doing it. And, you know, the hard part is you got to do the work, right? You can have as many epiphanies as you'd like, you can have as many exhilarating you know, every time you walk out a steep artisans office, after a coaching session, you're on a high, there's the only way to describe it, you're on a high and you almost just float through the next few days, you're so you're just you're so empowered, and you're so and then the next time comes around, and you bring whatever issues you had to the table at that point. And you work through those and you continue to, to push towards the creation of the ultimate experience for yourself in life. And what I realize is how much of myself was in the way right, it's so easy for all of us to be victims and blame other people blame circumstances blame the hardships, the troubles, the the things that were unexpected that came out of nowhere that derailed your own plans, as the reason for not achieving what you really want out of life. But the reality is, is that you can create whatever you'd like. And all it takes is the right mindset, all it takes is the state of being and so, you know, I I have had, Matt, like when we were doing our pre show interview, talking about, you know, hey, I'll and I'll ask you what you've learned, oh, my goodness, I mean, that would take years to, to describe all of the things that I learned from that man. But yeah, that that experience in that room of being fully seen, anything is possible. And the empowerment of let's get to work creating it is pretty exceptional. I've never experienced that with any other human that I've ever been with. And I've been with a lot of humans. Thank you.

Just I kind of get chills listening to you describe that kind of impact, that kind of power that someone has to help unleash. I would love for you to talk a little bit about what are some limits that you identified? You mentioned, really, we impose those on ourselves? What were some of the ones that you felt were that changed most dramatically for you like what was the before the during, and the after, of those.

There were weekly ones of those weekly, literally weekly, and often many multiple. It started out where what was in my way, was a whole bushel full of negative self perceptions that I had to forgive myself for, and create new realities for myself. And so that was a unique process of going through. And I forgive myself for believing that I'm not capable, because the truth is, is that I can do anything, right, those kinds of creations, when you you forgive yourself for judging myself for being weak, forgive myself for judging myself for fill in the blank. So you go through and you identify what are all those areas that are getting in your way. So that's kind of the first step is is getting kind of the bulk of the main obvious low hanging fruit out of the way. And then you dive deeper into the psyche. And he's I mean, and I should say this, what I'm describing is my personal experience. Everyone that steps into Steve's office has a radically different experience. So what I'm not suggesting is that my experience is similar to indicative of or predictive of anyone else's experience. I'm simply sharing what it was for me. I think it's important to share because this is not some prescriptive elements that oh, well if Steve does that, then I'll do Let's do that. And it's the same. It's not like that it's a, he doesn't have any script, he doesn't it's a real time dance, where he's trying to you know, I'm a, I'm a very intense individual, I have very strong beliefs and very strong feelings. I can talk fast and get around it. I've always had the ability to talk my way around or out of things growing up and have somebody that I couldn't do that with was his greatest gift to me because he would hold my feet to the fire and make sure that I was that I was living into my my truth. I'm one of the big ones, I believed that I didn't have the capability of being a successful entrepreneur. So you talked about bigger ones, as I evolved with with him over time, I remember sitting in the room and he said, Well, what if you do you do real estate so unique and nobody's doing it? Like you would if you just had three or four other people that did it together with you know, that all that's impossible, there's, I couldn't even find three or four other people right now. It is an extraordinary company filled with people that live that way. So and then I'm like, I don't know how to be a good leader. Because my my past partner had pounded into my head for so many years that I suck at being a leader and so to have somebody helped me see that that was false, that was projection on his part on me and, and that I actually could be a good leader and I already was a good leader and, and to step into that and empowering me to go take that massive risk for me and my family of leaving a pretty secure job that I hated. But that was financially treating me quite well to go start my own firm. He navigated me through an extraordinarily what could have been an extraordinarily painful and vindictive divorce. Instead, it was peaceful. And it was, it was let's work together to figure out what's in the best interests of both parties. I didn't think that was even possible. I didn't even know that people did that. So he he helped navigate me through that, see that that was possible, and then hold my hand throughout it. And I'm still grateful today, never went to court never got lawyers involved, just just agreed, just agreed that we were going to try to do the right thing not like it was always easy. Nor is it today, always easy, but but it's a place of a state of being a place of coming from right. I remember the first time when I realized how full of shit I was when I was sitting on his couch. And this is early on. So I'm going back in time now. I was sitting on his couch. And I was telling him all the things I wanted to accomplish. I was frustrated. I wasn't getting there fast enough. And, you know, I'm already, you know, already past 30. And here I am like not, you know, I'm not a trillionaire yet and all these things and.

And he said, So what are you willing to do to get what you want? And I said Without thinking, I didn't realize I said it actually he had to repeat it back to me. I said, whatever it takes. And he said, let me let me repeat that back to you. You just said you're willing to do whatever it takes. And in that epiphany, I realized that, that my biggest problem was I was willing to compromise my own integrity to achieve my gains. I was willing to put that above integrity. And that was a sobering reality for me, because I had viewed myself through a very different lens. Like, I was really just a good guy that was trying his best and, and I saw in that moment that I was ruthless that I was cutthroat and I was willing to do whatever it took. And so being able to see that, right, you talk about the breakthroughs, the breakthroughs are being able to see your own blind spots that you don't even know you have. And when you see them, they're shocking. And And truthfully, they're disheartening. And then that's, I'm gonna I'm gonna run on a little bit of an aside, but I think it's relevant for this conversation. I think the reason why most people don't invest in their own growth is very, very simple. I think it's because there is such discomfort in realizing where you suck, that most people run from it. Right? Nobody really wants to look at themselves in the mirror and see what's truly wrong with them. And I don't mean wrong, like in a morality sense. I mean, what's in their way they all people want, myself included, want to be victims, right? We want it we want to view ourselves through this rose tinted lens of like, I'm perfect, but just everybody else in the world is so screwed up and all these things happen to me. It's like everybody's being a victim. But the reality is until you take ownership for your own faults for your own issues, you realize in moments of clarity that are also very sobering and make you feel like crap. You realize that really the problem with your life is you and you're in the way and so for me what started to become my drug of choice. That's what I call it, my drug of choice became so Seeing and still is to this day, people pointing out to me, where I don't realize I'm in my own way, or where I don't realize I'm doing something that's hurting someone, or what I don't realize I'm doing something that is causing negative around me, or on and on and on and on. And as you peel the onion, realize Holy crap, there are literally endless layers of this. And so part of the work was Steve, is every single week, you peel because you can't take it all, once a explode your brain, you'll go jump off a cliff, you will do a tie suck. But incrementally if you can handle that in the moment, that realization of who, yeah, that's ugly. Just like when I finally realized that I was telling myself that whatever it takes, like I didn't have any actual awareness of that it was just a survival mechanism that has somehow continued, growing up poor, having everybody always telling me that I couldn't get something done having a, you know, less than positive experience with my prior partner, all of these things that created all this baggage that that was affecting how I viewed myself and the world around me. And so uncoupling that requires looking within authentically, and having someone who's brave enough, and who can be bold enough, yet sensitive enough to be able to somehow take a message that your brain is resisting at all costs. We went through all the different systems that you created to prevent these from ever getting through and stick it right into your head. And so every time I would leave Steve's office, I would have this combination of euphoric feeling like, wow, like,

give me a wall, and I'll run through it. While understanding that I got work to do, and understanding what I just seen about myself that caused me to feel sometimes I would feel shame. Sometimes I would feel embarrassment, sometimes I would feel disgust. Right, like, like peeling back the layers of your own dysfunction is not an easy task. And so that's why number one, I think most people don't do it, too. That's why Steve is so almost not magical. Because that term conjures up in people's minds, so many things that are not what I'm talking about, I'm talking, he doesn't play at that kind of level. nor will he ever claim to, it's just it almost feels magical, because of his his serene ability to help you see things in a way that you can actually hear it that is a skill. And then if you're in an empowered environment, where you believe that now anything is possible, and you've rid yourself of all of the mental, if you if you have rid of many and continue to rid yourself, of so many of the limiting beliefs and thoughts that held you back in the past, then you really put yourself in a position to soar. And there's a lot of people that have sat in his office that have decided that they're in completely different lives than they ever really wanted, that they want something very different. For me what it did is reinforced it, I wanted to I wanted to be a family guy. I love being a dad, and it helped me be a better dad and help me purify my fatherhood, so to speak, and helped me adjust my priorities from you know, working around the clock to continuing to work extremely hard, but prioritizing my family and doing it in a kind way to building a culture of selfless service and an industry that have never been done despise, despite intense criticism and, and naysayers and on and on and on. So it's, it's, it's helping, there's no one answer, because everybody has a different path. You know,

well, let's look at those different areas that you were talking about. Because your family I know is so important to you. And you've evolved since you went through that divorce, you have remarried, you have a beautiful wife, a young daughter, and you already had four children, right? So you have a family of five children now and I know just having had other conversations with you, the passion you have for those kids is just remarkable. And so talk a little bit about your evolution as a person through your work with Steve, how are you being these days as a father, how do you show up?

Um, it's a great question. Depends on the day.

Honest, that's good.

Yeah. Some days I go, good Lord, that myself but you know, there's there's one thing that everyone that knows me knows and that my kids know quite well is. Dad is very imperfect. But there's nothing he loves more than his family. And if you look at where I spend my time, you know, it's with family. And if you look at the lifestyle that I've chosen, it's a family oriented lifestyle I have had some amazing friends have gone through Steve's coaching, and they're traveling the world and living these unbelievably impressive lifestyles. And while those are all exciting and fun, for me, what's exciting and fun, is right before this interview, my daughter came in and I just had to wipe it off. And she had hummus on her little fingers. And she was so excited about the new fan that I had in my office, because she had seen the old one, the old one was broken and hearing her little voice say, broke in new big, I mean, from my 16 year old son who crashed our vehicle yesterday, and I had to calmly go help him in his first accident where he was freaking out to, you know, to my daughter having, you know, going through her puberty process and the emotional roller coaster there to all of my sons deciding they want to be meatheads, like their dad, so I built a home gym, and at night, we're, we're rocking hard metal, and we're in there pumping iron get used to. I mean, it's just for me, it has helped me peacefully settle into the joy of fatherhood. And here's what I mean, as a driven individual. What I find knowing a lot of other driven individuals is that so often, because we want to accomplish everything, because we feel like we can and we should and we only have one life, we better get on it. There's like this. There's like this almost anxiety, anxiousness, dissatisfaction with most things that we're doing, because we're so caught up in where we're trying to go instead of being fully present. That was true for me as an early dad, I still was a very loving dad. And always it's always been my my joy. But inside my head, it wasn't as peaceful. Right? So the joyfulness wasn't there. Now, I'm so at peace, I don't want anybody else's life. But my own, I have zero jealousy of anyone else. In fact, I usually feel this sense of gratitude. Not always, but almost always, when I'm with others, like such a gratitude that, that I don't stress about things, I don't worry about things. I am peacefully grateful, exactly where I'm at. Good, bad and different. It's all just kind of the same. It's like this. Steve taught me and Byron Katie and others taught me the loving what is and that's really settled for me, not that I don't get frustrated a moment or whatever. But from a dip from a satisfaction standpoint, for me, it's extremely high. And I could always have more money, I could always have more kids, I could always have more this, I none of that stuff really matters to me anymore. And before it did, before I'd play the comparison game. Like, Why is that guy more successful than me, and, um, he's younger than me. And he has had more opportunities. It's like, all of that chaos and noise is just gone. And it's like, I have intentionally and thoughtfully chosen my life. I'm grateful for it. I'm peaceful within it. Every day I wake up and bluebirds, which are like unexpected good things happen to me. And I even include the things like yesterday my son getting into an accident, what a great first life experience at 16 No one got hurt. It was slightly traumatic for him of course as a first accident, whatever be but what good lesson and and all the other kids were in the car and none of them got hurt. And the lady he hit didn't get hurt, and, and they got to see what it's like to have that in their brains is going to make them want to be more careful when they drive and it's going to, you know, it's like so you think about all these things, and you go, is there anything that's really not a gift? Is there anything that is not really being given to me as either a learning opportunity or this and so, you know, so what I see a lot with successful people is intense dissatisfaction, which is kind of crazy if you think about it, right? They live lives that other people are envious of. But you get inside their heads and they're miserable. I don't I don't live that way. I live blissfully happy and content. So if there was one thing that I could say Steve Hardison helped me find its peace. Right and this is self created, independent of anything else piece this is. This is this is piece that is decided upon created every morning and lived into everyday this is this This peacefulness as a state of being. Again, it's not perfect. It's not like and it has to it's like a banana, right? A banana, banana will rot. So you have to recreate it every day. So it doesn't rot, you have to bring a fresh banana, that fresh bananas, is saying what you're committed to every single day and living in like, for me, one of mine is Life is simple, fun and easy. Life is simple, fun and easy. So when something shows up, that's not simple, fun and easy. I run through the filter of life is simple, fun and easy. And guess what it turns out, it's actually simple, fun and easy. But that's a decision. It's a state of being it's a commitment, right? Mm hmm.

I love what you've just said, You covered so much there. I want to go a little bit deeper about commitment, because I know that's one of, you know, Steve's core values. And I know that he really helps draw that out. In in the book throughout his level of commitment. He was committed to you in working with him in that moment. But also, I am guessing you learned some things about what commitment really means, in your work with him? How has that impacted? who you are and what you do in the world?

Great question. Um, you know, one of the things that came out of my coaching is when I created my own firm, I created on 15 core operating principles, which were this kind of utopian view of what commercial real estate could be like, if the what if I could just decide from scratch what what's what's ideal when write them down? What principle eight is, we are our word. Right. And I think nothing is more important to Steve, than being his word, because His Word is everything. And I think it's an area that most people are extremely inconsistent on. And there in lies their reduction in power. Because when Steve says something, he does it, if Steve makes a commitment to anything he will follow through. There are many commitments that I have made over my life that I never followed through on, or that I did for a short period of time, or that I did until I really didn't want to do it anymore. So that doesn't exist within Steve. And so from a being your word standpoint, if you can't trust yourself, it starts with yourself. The reason why being your word is so important is because you have to be your word for yourself to believe yourself about the big things that you say yourself is going to do. And so if you can't be accountable on the small things that you commit to doing how in the world, we're going to be accountable to the big facts. And so that's part of the second part of why being a word is so important, is because others then either trust you or they don't. Right. And this is an interesting area, because I've learned that I've learned through my experience with building a company that everybody has a different version of this. And a lot of people tend to use this as a weapon. And they use this as a way to judge others. They use this as a way to try to pick holes and other people versus look within. And so I think it's important to know that Steve never weaponizes any of these, he's never using it as a way to make you feel bad, or to try to judge you. He's using it as a way to help you realize the power you're lacking in your life, if you don't live into it. And so for me, every place that I have been my word flourishes, and the places where I haven't been my word diminishes. So I think the proofs kind of in the pudding. Right? Like, like you, if you if you're committed, that means it actually needs to happen. So like with our clients, when we say actually to send an email praising one of our star brokers this morning, where she made a commitment to get a client that deliverable by yesterday. And when it turned out that we had an emergency happen in our marketing department where she wasn't able to do it, and remember, it wasn't even her fault. She did not make excuses. She did not blame someone. She did not ignore it. What most people do is they just ignore it and hope the person forgot that they committed to Wednesday, right? No, she sends an email cleaning up saying I told you I'd get this to you by today. It turns out, I'm not going to be able to I apologize for that. I will get it to you as soon as I can. But wanted to make you aware as soon as I knew. That is unbelievable, right? That is called that's integrity. To me. Integrity is doing what you say you're going to do. Like Steve says, integrity is your body Being where you say it's going to be when you commit to it being there, right? When you commit to it being there. So, commitment and being your word is literally the backbone on which everything is built. And truthfully, it was the hardest, and often continues to be the hardest one for me, because my natural tendency is to want to have multiple options open, you know, let's book three different calendar things. And let's see how I feel in the moment. And then all three of them now, JK is not very committed, it's not really for sure gonna be there, do we really hold him a spot? There's no power in that. There's, there's, it's just weak. So it's a it's it's one of those things, that it's a daily commitment to remain committed to being committed to your words?

Well, yeah, you know, is I think about that. It's our commitment to ourselves, that allow us to then not also fulfill our commitments to other people. And it's a way of really diminishing our opinion of ourselves. And I think that that's, it prevents us, I think it circles back to what you were saying earlier, you know, with these limits we self impose, when we recognize we're not fulfilling a specific commitment. I think it degrades our opinion of ourselves at some level. And we may not even be conscious of it. But there's, there's this message I think that goes into, I'm not reliable, I'm not dependable, you know, or we beat ourselves up with negative self talk, where this whole idea of it being non negotiable. This is what's going to happen when I say so you're careful about giving your word. Right, it makes you more aware of who are you going to say yes to? Or what are you going to say? Yes to? That's part of it sounds like what you've decided with your family, and making that commitment to them being so important that you say no to these other things that someone else might find appealing.

Yes, and there's more nuance to it. But I also believe in an integrated life. So a lot of people have this idea of I work during this time, and I'm with my family during this time, I also don't have that black and white of a view I look at it as it's actually good for my kids to be integrated into a love them listing. I love it when I can take a business call with the kids in the car and just have them listen and learn. Right? So there's, there's a duality to it. It's not so black and white, like, oh my gosh, how dare I am such a terrible father. I took a business call on my drive. No, that's just, you know, like, it's just self abuse. But if that's all you're doing, then that's probably a problem. Right? If you but if you're not using it strategically, as a learning opportunity, and you're just not present and not around and not aware. That's a problem, right? So I think so much of this is like, it's easy to counter swing and go like, Oh, man, I'm not a part, I find that parents are so hard on themselves. And I think that they live in so much regret. And I was just talking to a parent the other day, and she said, my biggest regret is I am. So I lose lots of sleep at night thinking about how much I screwed up my kids. I wasn't there for them, this and that. And this man. And I just looked at her and I said, I think screwing up as a father, for me personally, is one of the greatest gifts I can give to my kids. Because my parents were such perfect people and parents that I just kind of wanted to give up like, what's the point? I can never be as good as my, you know, sainthood of a mother. So why try it was was actually refreshing to see one of them lose their temper once every 25 years. You know, it's like, it's like, wow, okay, I'm not a big screw up. So I think that, you know, I think we got to be gentle with ourselves. I think not that this conversations about parenting but, you know, I think the same gentleness that Steve would utilize with me when I'd be a big hot mess, I think is the same gentleness we got to be on ourselves. Realizing like so I have none of that. Literally none. It's gone. I'm not saying that. Well, first of all, I don't lie. But second of all, I'm not even saying that delusion, like like I really, really truly to my core belief that everything that I've done for my kids has been good for them. Even the really crappy stuff, like losing my temper or being upset, I guess it's really all around being upset, really. All of it is like helping to mold them into the creatures they need to become to be prepared for the world. So why would I judge it, I was doing my best every single time in the moment. And I'm not perfect, and I'm not trying to be perfect. I'd rather I have an authentic conversation and relationship with my kids, then some sort of off pretending to be some perfect person, and then beat myself up and then fail on their eyes anyways, why would a big mess?

Know that what you're saying there, Jonathan is, is such a key element in our lives. Because when you think about in our roles in our work, let's say as a leader, if you mess up, all of this can be instructional for the people around us, as well as ourselves. And I think the key thing with with whether you're a parent, a spouse, you know, a boss, manager, whatever roles you're in, to be willing to be honest with other people about what happened in that process. I think that's really the key. And the end thing that I think is important to note about what you said with your kids, is because they know what a very deep level your your commitment and your love for them. It's undisputable. And so when you have that kind of a solid foundation, and that can be at work and at home, then what's happening are just a natural part of life. And I want to ask you, what role do you see self love having in your ability to have this perspective that you just described?

Great question. And thanks for the kind words, you're so kind to be Meredith, I really appreciate it. So first, on the business side, I do the same thing in business. So some of the best conversations I've ever had within my company, are when I be super vulnerable, and say, when I'm really struggling around really messing up or where I caught myself messing up. It's so powerful that for a long period of time, I would open up every meeting or close every meeting with something like that trying to help people see, in fact that people come to me and say my favorite part about Kaiser is that you're you tell us where you screw up and I feel connected to you so much more every time. That's unique. That's not that doesn't come natural from you naturally. I want to hide it. Right. That's that's what most people I think do. But I don't want to lose time for the question you ask. Self Love is a hard one for a lot of people, especially especially people that grew up in a faith based thing and a missionary kid, missionary kids, it's pounded into their head, that we are just filled with sin. And if and everything is like, if you're not just living at the foot of the altar every day, castigating yourself for all the things you do wrong, you're not in communion with God. And I just fundamentally see it differently now. I used to be filled wracked with guilt growing up in that kind of legalistic environment. And that was No, that's no dig on my parents. My parents are the kindest, most loving having the if there's anybody that's even even close to my mom, it's Amy Hardison, you know, I mean, those two are, you know, they literally are angels walking on this planet. But it's the control that the, that religion puts on people and it's what it's what's my biggest issue with organized religion, it's the, you know, it's the self mutilation that you're supposed to go through to obtain holiness and humility. So for me self love is still a little bit of a challenge. So I think I think I've achieved extraordinary self acceptance. And what I'm constantly striving closer towards is self love. And I truly believe that I am in the greatest I'm in the zone. When I'm loving other people. It is so easy for me to love others it is it is natural now after my rebirth working with Steve it is just it just flows naturally. One that's how I was raised and once I got all my problems and not all of them once I got so much of the junk that was in the way I still got plenty just as my wife

once I got all of that junk out of the way, I was able to love much more purely and so for me, I look at it as the best way that I'm in self love is when I'm loving others which is a you know, there's work to be done there but it is something Where I am absolutely utterly consumed with loving and serving other people it is, it is the joy of my life. I just got back from a YPO retreat. And they asked a question in a small group forum, but what what lights you up the most. And for me, it was easy. It's like when I drive my kids to school every day, and we have a routine and we say, our declarations that we talked about how grateful we are, what we appreciate about each other. And then, you know, at the end, it's always my turn. And it's like, okay, Dad, what are you grateful for my kids just roll their eyes. Because I said every single time they don't get to repeat themselves, but dad does. And it's always I'm grateful for my kids, you know, because that is what what fills me. So my family is what I'm grateful for. And then, when you love and serve other people, Meredith, as you know, well, because you model this for the world, you create such extraordinary relationships with other people, ones that are vulnerable, that are deep, that are enduring, my life is filled to the brim, and overflowing constantly with people that I love, very, very much, that love me very, very much. And to me, that's the beauty of, of love. Beauty of love is it fills you up. And the reason why I'm so full is because I'm constantly loving others, and it comes back and so just like everything else, the more you give something, the more you get, you put negativity out into the world, you're gonna get negativity back. I believe that everything's a gift. I you know, I just do I decide to I choose to even when it doesn't look like a gift. I look for the pony under the pile of poop, right? There's got to be a pony in there somewhere. So that's, that's really the mindset. So for me, if love is all consuming, then you can't help but share that. And so I have, I still have layers, right? I still have work to be done. Still trying to decouple some of the deep seated things that religion pounded into me of unworthiness and all those kinds of things. And for the most part, they're gone. But you know, like, they pop sometimes up out of nowhere. And you're like, wow, my old used to be friend, good to see you again.

Oh, Jonathan, I can so relate. I was raised in the Catholic Church, and they are just prime for guilt. And so even today on like you, there will be occasions when something happens. And the first thought I have is around, Oh, what did I do, you know, feeling guilty when it wasn't anything at all that was appropriate to have that kind of thought. But I think that raising the awareness, and going through, if we circle back to the very beginning, talking about that process of self forgiveness, that to me was one of the most powerful parts of that book, and in particular, the document chapter of the ultimate coach book, because that importance of doing going through self forgiveness. And multiple times, as you said, it's not like a once and for all thing. But to make that progress and be willing to peel back the layers and do that deep dive into, Where's this coming from? And how does that impact how I see myself and the world? I just think, you know, it's all related. And I think it's an important prerequisite to that freedom that you're describing, of being at peace, of a truly at peace, and also free to really love others without judging. And bringing, because I honestly think when I'm most in, in the mode of judging someone else is because there's something about myself I'm not tolerating at that moment. It's always about us if we'll slow down and take a look doesn't matter what somebody else is really doing. Because then a different moment. We would respond in a tonight.

Did I do a quick rant on that? Yeah. So I agree wholeheartedly, and it's one of the areas that I look for, when when there's something about someone else that that annoys me or bothers me. I don't do perfectly, but I try to use that as a catalyst to remember that that's really just it. The reason it affects me is because it's something within me that I don't like, right so I try to turn it around and say where where am I that because I'm not disliking them. I'm not judging them. I'm self judging. And that's what I mean by acceptance is like, it's like I realize through out throughout life, that it's easier for me to give love to others and acceptance to others than it is for me to give it to myself. And I find that to be true universally. And so using, you know, even if you never hired a coach never hired super Coach Steve, if you just used your own internal awareness to go, that person bugs me and try to figure out why that person bugs me, and then turn it around, you're gonna find out something about yourself that will give you an opportunity for improvement. Excellent point.

Excellent. I just want to offer a little bit of encouragement to you, Jonathan, around this question, I asked you about self love. Because there's something still there. And I'm not asking you to go into it, it's just that I think it's important to focus on loving others, like you said, but there's still something there that, and I don't, I don't need to know what it is. But I just want to hold that up to you. Because I sense that, and maybe it's because I recognize it with myself too. There are things that you know, I sometimes wish were different because of something I'm still doing or not doing, that I want to do. If we all look at it, as we're all works in progress, and there is no achievement of this ultimate, whatever you might even want to call it evolution, evolution by design means we keep growing and changing and, and learning. So it's a process and accepting every stage of it and loving every stage of it and looking at it as you're doing as a learning opportunity for you, you know, as being something, there's a gift in it. I love that question, what's the gift in this? Or what do I want to create from this? Those are some wonderful insights from the book and you have shared so many wonderful insights today, is there anything else I didn't ask you about that you would like to share about your experience in this evolution and how you are being in the world today.

Um, I would just say that, I consider myself one of the most blessed people on the planet. Because I've had the opportunity to work with Steve for so long. And that's a delicious gift that very few people on the planet have. So I I am humbled and grateful that that was an opportunity that presented itself to me. And I am very much at peace. So it's a nuanced conversation. And yes, there's always work to be done. And all of that, but just to be clear, I absolutely love my life, I wouldn't trade it for anyone. I love who I am. Right? I just see, I just see opportunities for improvement everywhere. So part of part of what I'm constantly doing is, is looking to where all of us can continue to evolve. So it's like be peaceful and content. And don't get so comfortable that you miss further opportunities for growth. Because my experience has been that the more that I grow, the better my life becomes. And the happier that I am. I love that.

And you know, I want to affirm something, Jonathan, that you've said throughout. And you gave this specific example at your work, where you would start or in the meeting, revealing something about your own, you know, vulnerabilities. I don't think we can share strongly enough how important that is to build strong relationships and trust. Because other people know we're not perfect. We can acknowledge it ourselves and not take ourselves too seriously. Then it helps them feel freer to admit when they've made a mistake and not try to blame. So it's a way of helping people acquire ownership. And I think as a parent, that's so valuable too because that's one of the most important things that I think as a parent If we can convey is how to take personal responsibility for your life. And so I just want to acknowledge you and the beautiful person you are and all the good you are doing in the world because of who, who you are who you show up as every day because it's a part of your being now, and your own personal evolution. Thank you. It's been so wonderful to have this conversation with you. It's been an honor, it's been an honor.