Mae Krell on Music, Growth, and Personal Healing: A Journey from New York's Indie Scene

In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews indie artist Mae Krell, touching upon her personal journey, music, and healing process. Mae opens up about her struggles growing up in New York City, her challenges with mental health and sobriety, and how these experiences have shaped her music. They discuss Mae's latest album, 'I Might Be Grown', the significance of its title, and some key tracks, such as 'Apollo's Song' and 'Grown'. Mae also talks about the process of building genuine connections with her fans, the evolving music industry, and her ambitions for the future. The episode concludes with Mae performing two songs from her album.

00:00 Introduction to Self-Forgiveness

01:05 Welcome to Curious Goldfish

01:45 Discovering Mae Krell

03:00 Mae Krell's Musical Journey

05:21 Touring and Album Release

10:02 The Independent Artist's Hustle

22:52 Life in New York vs. Nashville

29:32 Balancing Life and Isolation

30:35 Dreams of a Nomadic Lifestyle

32:25 The New Album: I Might Be Grown

35:47 The Story Behind 'To Begin'

42:58 Personal Reflections and Sobriety

47:13 Music as a Lifeline

52:45 Curiosity and Future Plans

54:50 Live Performance: 'Grown' and 'Apollo's Song'

01:03:47 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

long, and so I I just never thought that I would have to

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internally deal with any I was putting

myself through, um, and so to begin

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to me feels like kind of a, a way of

acknowledging other people did things

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to hurt me, but I put myself in the

situations for those things distance

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from that and I'm no longer doing

those things, but I still have all of

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these fears and anxieties and leftover

pain from stuff that I put myself in.

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And How do you forgive

yourself and move on?

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and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

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And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

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lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

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Can I at least ask to begin?

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That's kind of what the lyric that

the song name comes from is so it's

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just saying like I don't know if I can

promise That I'm gonna be okay with all

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this stuff But I can promise that I'm

gonna try to be and like that's gonna

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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I love a playlist called

Indie Folk Central.

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It's available on Spotify.

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Yes, but the one I love is the one that

plays on YouTube, curated by someone named

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Rufus, the YouTube version has simple

yet interesting graphics and includes

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meanings of songs while each one plays

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descriptions provided by

the artists themselves.

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I recall sometime late last year in 2023,

it was a cloudy, maybe even a rainy day,

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and a song started playing by a young

woman who sounded no older than 16.

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It was melancholy, yes, and maybe even

borderline what the kids call sad girl.

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But there was a sweet innocence

to it that it just drew me in.

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The artist singing was Mae Krell

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and in the spirit of curiosity, I

started to dig a little bit deeper into

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her story via Google and Instagram.

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She interested me because of her

New York roots and the fact that

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while she's now in her twenties,

she's lived an interesting life.

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Having started to photograph live

music events in her teens and attending

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the rehabilitation center in Utah.

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When most of the friends her age were

either in high school or college, she

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was late to learn music, fed up with

being behind the lens, taking pictures

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and capturing memories of musicians

doing things that she wanted to do.

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So she picked up the guitar.

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Mae opens up about her personal

journey, discussing the challenges she

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faced growing up in New York city, her

struggles as a teenager and how these

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experiences have shaped her music.

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She delves into the themes of

forgiveness, growth, and the

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healing power of songwriting.

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Specifically highlighting tracks from her

recently released album, I Might Be Grown.

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Mae also shares her thoughts on

the evolving music industry, the

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importance of building genuine

connections with fans, and her dream

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of traveling the country in an RV.

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She also plays two

songs for us at the end.

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Hopefully you will get a sense

of what drew me into her when I

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first heard her on that playlist.

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It doesn't have to be rainy outside.

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Here'seMay Krell of Brooklyn, New York.

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Let's dive in.

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Hi, Mae Nice to meet you.

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Thanks for

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joining.

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Mae Krell: Hi, thanks for

having me, nice to meet you.

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Jason English (Host): And you're,

uh, you're calling in today

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from, uh, your home in, uh, New

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York

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city,

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Mae Krell: Yes, in

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Jason English (Host): In Brooklyn.

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Um, and you grew up in Hell's Kitchen.

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Is that, is that

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what I've

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Mae Krell: Yeah, in the city, I

didn't go too far, just like switched

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boroughs to somewhere where I can

have a yard and a little bit more

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Jason English (Host): That's good.

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And you spent a little time in Utah,

which I thought was interesting.

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Was that, I think you said,

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was that like a

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boarding situation?

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Like,

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uh,

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Mae Krell: Um.

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I got shipped to one of those,

like, troubled teen centers.

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I feel like there's more

about it online now.

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Like, with Paris Hilton's documentary.

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And I think Netflix put out a recent one

as well that I've been meaning to watch.

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But, um, yeah, at the

time it was definitely not

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Jason English (Host): you know,

Colorado to me is like the

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beautiful West and then Utah is also

beautiful, but it's like a different

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planet.

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Mae Krell: no, I

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Jason English (Host): but I'm

sure you, you probably didn't,

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you probably didn't see much of it

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though, right?

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Mae Krell: Now, just like the little

section that we were at, and then we did

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go on a Moab trip, so I got to see Moab.

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I've been back since.

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I love Colorado, it's gorgeous.

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Um, and I've been back in Utah to like

travel, and I saw some of the parks

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in the south, and definitely agree.

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There's one very specific place that I

think of when I think of Utah looking at

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a different planet, and it's like the It's

like locally called Moon Landing Road in

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southern Utah and it just like looks like

you're on the moon when you get to the end

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of this like crazy like eight mile road.

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Um, and I show people

photos of it all the time.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, that's cool.

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That's, and that's different

than Hell's Kitchen, obviously.

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But,

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Mae Krell: Yeah.

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Jason English (Host): but you're, you're

going to be, so you, you know, you

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live in New York still, um, but you're

going to be hitting the road soon.

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Is this, I know you've toured before,

but is this sort of the first kind

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of, Big ish tour to obviously to

promote your first album, right?

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So is this, uh, is this

a bigger deal than most

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or are you used to something like

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Mae Krell: I've toured like longer

routes before, definitely farther out

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from home, but I've never done any

sort of even like co headline tour.

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So this is the first

shows I've played where.

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Like my friend Grace Gardner and

I are like co headlining them.

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I've been being out as

like an opening act.

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So, it feels like a bigger

deal for that reason.

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Um, but, and I am very excited.

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I've never been to Montreal.

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That one's, it's a city that

I've wanted to check out.

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And we have a show out

there, so I'm really excited.

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Jason English (Host): that's awesome.

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Yeah.

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And April's pretty big month, right?

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So you're, you're, you're

going on a tour this weekend.

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So this is the first week of April

that when we're talking, but it's

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this weekend and you're, you're doing

that for a few weeks and then the

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album comes out later

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this month,

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Mae Krell: Yeah, yeah, the

tour starts a week from today.

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And then, so like Tuesday, April 9th.

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And then the album is out on the 19th, and

we have an album release show in New York.

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So we're doing like a very quick

loop, like up to Boston, Montreal,

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Toronto, and then kind of through

back into like Chicago, Indianapolis,

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Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and back

to New York, all in 10 days.

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It's very like stacked back

to back, but I'm excited.

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Jason English (Host): so yeah.

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How excited are you?

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I mean, this has to be a process

that you've been working on for for

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quite a bit,

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Mae Krell: The album has definitely

been, like, a long, really big project.

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I mean, any, like, debut

full length is gonna be.

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Um, the tour kind of came about in a

very I don't wanna say accidental, but,

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um, I wanted to play an album release

show in New York, and I texted my

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friend Grace, who lives down in Philly,

and was like, hey, do you wanna come?

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Up to play this show and they were

like, yeah, I would love to like, do

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you want to try to play one in Boston?

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I've been meaning to play in Boston.

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I was like, yeah, I

want to play in Boston.

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And we just kind of kept like

snowballing and reaching out to venues.

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And, um, the responses were a

lot faster than I'm used to.

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I don't know if it's just the time of year

or what, but we booked this whole run,

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like in the span of a couple of weeks,

like really, really quick, um, which is

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unusual in my experience, but very lucky.

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So I am very excited about it.

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Jason English (Host): no, that's great.

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And you've been sort of dripping

out the individual singles

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for the last few months,

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right?

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Mae Krell: Yeah, Apollo

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Jason English (Host): How

long have you, how long?

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Yeah.

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How long have you been

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working on the album?

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Okay.

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Mae Krell: which was also

quintet, the first single,

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um, in like November of 2022.

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And then I started recording

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So it wasn't a super long writing

process, all things considered.

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But I also, after Apollo song

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Kind of very Purposefully and

intentionally was like I'm gonna write

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a record like I want to put out a full

length LP And that's what I want to write

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with that all in mind and so I think that

that like being that Intentional was what

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allowed the writing to kind of come in

what to me felt like a shorter time frame

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I may know some people write an album

in two weeks, but that would not be me.

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Otherwise and then we did the recording

over the summer of Last year and

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started like dropping out the singles

and Late september was the first one.

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So it's it's been

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It'll be like september like late

september through late april as

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like an album cycle which I don't

know how many months that is but

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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All right.

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No, that's good.

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That's good.

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So I came across your stuff.

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Um, uh, I'm a big follower of, uh, this

playlist on YouTube called Indie Folk

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Central.

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Uh, yeah.

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And, um, you know, it's one of

those things where they play

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so much, so much great music.

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And, you know, I'll look at the,

you know, look at the screen when

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it's on the television and I'll

pick up the artists and I'll look

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them up on Spotify or whatever.

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And, uh, um, yours was just distinct,

uh, among, uh, All the other sounds, you

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know, it's just like the soft delicate

sort of, um, it's like what I envision the

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perfect music to be on a, uh, you know,

don't think this is the wrong way, but

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like a rainy cloudy day, like at a coffee

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shop, you know?

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Mae Krell: Yes.

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No, that is the best compliment.

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I'm like, what are you

gonna take it the wrong way?

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I love that.

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Jason English (Host): So anyway, I was

like, okay, she seems really interesting.

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Uh, yeah, she seems very interesting.

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And so I started following

you and obviously listening.

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And, um, so anyway, that that's

the, that's how I came across,

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uh, your stuff, I guess.

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And I think in another interview, you've

talked about just the whole process

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of being an independent artist and

getting your name out there that it's

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a, it's a complete numbers game and,

uh, the hustle that it requires to, you

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know, basically just cold call and cold

email and cold DM, probably all these.

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Playlist curators.

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And I don't know if you did

that with Indie Folk Central.

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Um, but whatever that worked, uh,

however they found, found you out.

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It worked for me.

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Um, but yeah, talk, talk

about, talk about that.

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Like, is that something you signed

up for, uh, when you got into this

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or was that, has that been kind of a

surprise on, on what that process looks

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like to, to get your name out there?

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Mae Krell: So, yeah, I, I love Indie Folk

Central, I listen to their compilations

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as well, um, and I think I just submitted

through like their site, um, and Rufus

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was kind enough to like the songs and

want to add some of them, which is

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great, and I've done like two of their

like compilation albums on Spotify

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now as well, which has been really

cool, um, the promotion aspect and the

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way of going about it is definitely

something that I feel like is constantly.

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evolving and something that I'm learning

what works and what doesn't and what's

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worth putting your time into and what

isn't because a lot of Playlists like

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there's a value in everything but a lot

of playlists specifically on like Spotify,

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which is a big focus that people put

on Kind of only yields like a passive

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listenership And I think that can be great

depending on What your genre of music is

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and your choice and your goals, but it

that doesn't feel You to me, the more I

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kind of try to choose and internalize,

like, what do I want in my career?

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What do I want in making music?

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And a passive listener base that

like doesn't really care about the

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lyrics or have much of a connection

to anything past the sound of the

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song isn't really what I'm going for.

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So if I only have a limited

amount of time to spend.

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Promoting in a certain way like that over

time has been less and less the direction

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that I've been going And I think that

Indie Folk Central specifically is one

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of those exceptions where sure they have

a good listenership on Spotify But they

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make these compilations on YouTube where

people actually pay attention to the songs

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and they ask you to send a little blurb

about The song and I think it's a cool

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in between like a cross of This is still

a way to reach people, but it's also a

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way to reach people who might actually

care to then follow along with you as an

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artist, rather than just like a playlist

that someone shuffles and doesn't look at.

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Well, you know, I started this podcast

just a few months ago and I've talked to

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a fair number of people since it's not

surprising, I guess, but one of the pieces

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of feedback I've gotten is, um, you know,

obviously everybody wants, you know, tens

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of millions of streams and, you know,

to headline all these big shows and all

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that, uh, or like most people, like that

would be the goal, but actually a lot

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of these independent artists that I've

talked to, um, They're completely happy

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and satisfied with the loyal fan base.

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Like, like you were talking about, like

the loyal fan base that will go and see

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them or host them at a, at a house show

or go and, and, and, and watch them in a

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listening room, you know, that actually

want to like have a, have a relationship

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with them as much as you can, you know,

virtually or like a fan and artist should,

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that's, you know, healthy and normal.

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Um, they actually.

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Prefer that, uh, as long as obviously

they can make a living and, you know,

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pay the bills and, and, and, and do what

they love to do, which I was kind of

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surprised because I thought, you know,

every artist, you know, the end goal

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would be to, you know, I don't know,

be, uh, headline, headline the big show.

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Like I said, is that

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is that where your head's at?

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Mae Krell: I think so, um, for

sure, like that's very much where

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I've developed to over time.

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But I also think that different artists

fanbases are just a different vibe.

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Um, like I, I went to the Zach Brian

show a couple of nights ago in Brooklyn.

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I love him.

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I love his recent self titled album.

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It's so good.

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And his fan base is so attentive,

um, in a way that I feel like shows

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that that size typically aren't.

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And there's a couple select artists that

I feel like I've seen live at different

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sizes, like maybe bigger than like a

club show, but not as big as an arena.

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Um, and it's kind of a lot of them

are like some of my current favorite

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artists that I'm so attentive to that.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Mae Krell: Overall, fan base

is very engaged and attentive.

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And so I think in an ideal world,

like you can headline the big show

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and also have your fan base be the

type that is attentive and cares.

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But I think that that usually requires a

really slow come up rather than a really

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fast overnight overnight in big quotes.

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But the, the, the like kind of

new age, like overnight success or

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whatever, where like a song does

really well on Tik Tok or like on.

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Reels or somewhere else and suddenly

everybody knows this one song of yours.

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I don't think that necessarily translates

to a dedicated fan base a lot of the

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time because they're dedicated to one

single song they came across recently.

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So when there's been a kind of like a

handful of different moments of that

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success that kind of jumps up over time

and I think that's what you see with these

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artists that are bigger but have that

really dedicated fan base, I think that's

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what creates the cross in between the two.

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And it's a lot of luck, and it's

a lot of talent, and it's a lot of

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dedication, and a lot of great songs.

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I feel like they're required for that.

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Um, but that's the ideal to me,

is getting to a point where I can

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obviously make a living doing this, but

can also play the big shows and have

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people come and be really dedicated.

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And I think it also

gives you a lot of power.

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as a large artist as well when your

fan base is that dedicated to like put

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the spotlight on new artists because

if your fans are that dedicated to you

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they're also going to be dedicated to

someone that you bring on to open the

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show and that also is like a really

big power to hold in your hands i would

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imagine as like a big artist like that

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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And speaking of that, aren't you

going to open for a Harrison storm?

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Mae Krell: yes yeah yeah i'm so excited

yeah on the 24th um in new york at

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mercury lunch my favorite venue that's

my favorite like small new york venue

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Jason English (Host): so

he's, he's pretty big.

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I think he's got like a

million monthly listeners or

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something like that.

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Mae Krell: Yeah, I was like, kind

of, I think in shock because I had

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heard of him before and I think I had

like one or two of his songs saved.

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Um, but I didn't realize like how

big of a following he actually had.

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I think because he's Australian.

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So like, for him to have

the reach he has in the U.

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S.

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and be from a different country, I would

imagine the numbers have to be that big

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because he probably had to build up a fan

base in Australia first before getting

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over to like another country's reach.

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Um, but I'm very excited.

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I've heard really good things about him.

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His live show and all the videos I've seen

have looked really cool, so I'm stoked

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to open and then be able to watch it.

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Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

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So back to what the point you were making

about the, like the Zach, Brian example.

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So obviously you're, you're

going to learn a lot, right.

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Uh, once this album comes out

about the process and I'm sure

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you'll, um, make mistakes and,

and respond and react and adjust.

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But at this point, what are the two

or three things that you're like,

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okay, for me to sort of build that

slow role, you know, in the, in that

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loyalty, what are the two or three

things that you're, you're like, I

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have to do, I'm going to have to do

like this year to, uh, to do that.

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Mae Krell: Write good songs.

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That's definitely important.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Mae Krell: I think continuing to

like foster the relationships that

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I have with the fans that already

exist and being aware of how sacred

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and special that is, because I think

that that's something that people can

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lose sight of often and um, When a

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Jason English (Host): what are some,

what are, what are, sorry, what

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are some tangible examples of that?

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Mae Krell: Like, there's a girl who

I met, I want to say she lives in

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Chicago, who had me draw something

for her to get tattooed, and then I

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got a message like two or three months

later with a picture of something that

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I drew, like tattooed on her ankle.

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Or, um, this last, the tour that I was on

last year, opening for Ethan Jewell, who

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is like a great friend of mine and the

most wonderful musician and person ever.

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His fan base is so dedicated, and

so There were some fans who came to

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the shows that hadn't either known

my music before or like found out

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about it from the tour announcement.

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And they brought little

bracelets they handmade with like

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their favorite songs on them.

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Or like a lyric, as like a gift.

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And you're like, you care.

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Like you really care about this.

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And to be then aware of that person and

um, You know, like there's certain kids

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that like, they'll comment on like,

something on my Instagram and I'm like,

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I know who you are, like, I know which

city you're in, I know which venue I met

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you at, I remember this, I remember you

brought your dad and he was wearing this

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flannel shirt, or like this other thing.

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And they really appreciate that you look

at them as real people, because they are.

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But I think that that's an experience

that as a fan you don't get very often.

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Like I can, Kind of feel that from my

end when I'm a fan of someone as well,

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like I just feel like a number in a

room so much of the time and you're

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not, you know, that you're the only

reason that someone can make a living.

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And so to to make sure that people

are aware that you appreciate what

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they do for you Even if that's just

like posting on their instagram

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story or sending it to their friend

like that makes a big difference,

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too Even at a bigger artist level.

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It still makes a big difference I found

artists with hundreds of thousands of

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streams that I hadn't heard of before

because someone I know posted a song

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and I was Like wait, this is really

really good And then became a fan of

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them More like it was on someone's

playlist in the car and I like saved it.

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So any sort of

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Sharing music in like a real tangible

way I think has just as much if

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not more value than like, you know,

the other, the stuff that people

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expect is supposed to be helpful.

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Jason English (Host): Okay.

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So write good songs, do the little

things with fans, you know, that

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kind of build that camaraderie.

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What, uh, what else?

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Mae Krell: probably try

to reach more of them.

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Um, the internet is, I

struggle with that a lot.

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Um, just from a time perspective, I

think, like I, I have a full time job.

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Um, I have dogs and a

life to keep up with and.

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I, I have one of my roommates, uh,

who's a really good friend of mine has

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been helping with the PR for the album.

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So like they've written like

the press releases and sent

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out some stuff to people.

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Um, and one of my best friends makes

those collages that we put on Instagram,

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like when we post the stories and stuff.

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But in the general sense,

like I, I do all of it myself.

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Like I'm laying in bed at night instead

of going to bed, sending emails to people

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about opening shows that I see announced

or, and like sending these DMs or doing

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these things or responding to this thing.

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And.

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Um, I'm constantly exhausted, and so to

find time to then film and make videos

405

to be able to be as consistent as you

have to be on a lot of these platforms is

406

really tough, but I know it's like a, a

necessary thing, so I've been trying to

407

be better about it and readjust my kind

of commitments to make more time for it.

408

I think that's definitely

something I want to be doing

409

more.

410

Jason English (Host): I think I have

an idea, but give us a sense of like

411

the numbers involved with those emails.

412

Like, are we talking like a few dozen

over the course of a month or is it

413

hundreds and hundreds?

414

Yeah.

415

Mae Krell: not all at once.

416

It's like, oh, this tour was just

announced and there was no opener

417

and the rooms are a size that

like, I could like, make a pretty

418

sufficient help with my draw.

419

Like if the rooms are like 200 and I know

I can draw 30 to 40 people in each city

420

on this show, like this tour, it's worth

shooting an email over to management

421

and being like, okay, if you don't

have someone confirmed, like consider.

422

And I've gotten a handful of like,

local opening slots through doing

423

that, it's surprisingly effective.

424

I didn't really expect that at all.

425

Um, but it's, it's more like, just

constantly checking like, venue

426

websites and like, just seeing what

comes up on your socials to see.

427

Cause I, as much as the internet is

a really powerful tool for reaching

428

people, I really have found the most

success in opening slots, I think.

429

That's like a very classic thing that

people like undervalue now But if the fan

430

base that you're playing to is dedicated

and they trust the artists that they're

431

coming to see enough to bring them to

someone new then they come in with a

432

really like open like perspective of like

maybe this person is gonna be someone

433

that I'm gonna really enjoy and You know

people come and they buy your merch and

434

they come talk to you and you then see

them starting to like your Posts and

435

following you on socials and there's a

really tangible growth from that If you're

436

the type of artist that can harness it,

because I think that there's a certain

437

genre and like vibe and way of performing

and stage banter that benefits you a lot

438

more in those situations than others.

439

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

440

Yeah.

441

Oh, that's good.

442

Um, so I think on another interview to

you, this was a couple of years ago.

443

You were, you were sort of Well, I

don't know if debating is the right

444

term, but you were saying listen, I'm

in New York I grew up here apart from my

445

little stint in Utah You know, I'm being

here my whole life and you I think you

446

indicated like listen I want to I want

to I want to go to Nashville, right?

447

So is that something that

is still top of mind?

448

Did you try to do that at any point

since since since then and then

449

sort of a follow up question is?

450

Uh, What's it like being an

independent artist in New York?

451

Is, you know, is it, um, cause

I live in Atlanta and you know,

452

I, I, I see what that's like.

453

And I'm just wondering, you know,

is, is the big city, all that it's

454

cracked up to be, or is it like

a lot harder than it, than it,

455

Mae Krell: Uh, really Doug, a couple of

years ago, God, um, Nashville, I wanted

456

to be from Nashville before the pandemic.

457

I was planning on moving down

there and then COVID hit.

458

And so, like, everything changed, and by

the time that things were kind of starting

459

to go back to normal, my life was really

vastly different than it was before.

460

I think the biggest thing that stopped me

from moving down to Nashville, honestly,

461

was I work in the service industry.

462

And to make enough money to be

able to exist and fund music, I'd

463

probably have to bartend down there.

464

And as a sober person, I really

don't wanna exclusively bartend.

465

Like I work as a server and

a bartender now I do both at

466

the restaurants I work at.

467

And I think I would hate

having to bartend exclusively.

468

And, um, knowing that the cost of living

is pretty high, like it was just like

469

a technical adult decision to like not

move down there , um, unfortunately.

470

Um, but I have friends down there

and I, I enjoy it when I visit.

471

I don't know if it necessarily would be

the right fit for me now, looking back.

472

Um, I write everything, I

release pretty much on my own.

473

There's one song on my album

that my little sister and I

474

wrote together, and that's it.

475

Um, and Nashville is super

collaborative and I think that's

476

wonderful, but for my own project I

don't think it would do me justice.

477

In like a writing way.

478

Um, And I just don't think it's

the right fit, and that's okay.

479

Um, I'm very dead set on leaving New York.

480

Not for necessarily anywhere

specific, just leaving.

481

Um, and I, I think it's the music

scene, the way that everything is

482

in New York, and I'd like to imagine

other big cities, but I don't know,

483

because I only know what it's like here.

484

Everything changes so often.

485

You know, like, I walked by the block that

I grew up on today, and, like, half the

486

businesses that I remember being there

a couple years ago aren't there anymore.

487

And, like, even the really famous one

across the street that was, like, a

488

big, like, thing, like, closed down

while I was living there as a kid.

489

And neighborhoods change, and I

think the music scene is affected

490

by that, just like everything else.

491

Um I think that the music scene in New

York really thrives in kind of a weird way

492

in like the high school and college scene.

493

When I was in high school I used

to go to all these great shows in

494

people's like yards and um, like

places farther into Brooklyn and in

495

Rockaway Beach and it was so much fun.

496

And I didn't play music at the time.

497

I wish I had.

498

I think I would have

had a really great time.

499

But I loved going to these shows and I

had such an amazing experience doing that.

500

And then I can't speak to college, I

didn't go to school, but I know that

501

a lot of kids who go to like a lot of

the like NYU and kind of like music

502

programs say that they really enjoy that.

503

Um, I think that it's, it's not

a very friendly music scene.

504

And I, there's a lot of things

you could blame that on.

505

I feel like I end up kind of settling on.

506

The thought that people think of New

York as this very individualized place

507

and this individualized culture of

like, I come here to like, hustle and

508

get what I want and grow and whatever.

509

And I think that that's a very

like, outsider perspective to have.

510

Like, as someone who grew up here,

that's never been my experience

511

of New York, until I started

hanging around transplants.

512

Um, and I think that that really seeps its

way into everything, music scene included.

513

And it's really tough to meet people

that are just kind and want to make

514

music and want to be around you

because they like what you're doing

515

and not because of numbers or aren't

looking for all this underlying stuff.

516

And then, I mean, the, my closest

collaborator, my producer, Jake, Jacob

517

Leventhal, is also from New York.

518

Just like I, we didn't meet

like as kids or anything.

519

Like, I'm sure we've crossed paths because

the world here is so small, but he also

520

grew up here and a lot of his friends

that are musicians also grew up here.

521

And it's a lot of these like people who

are still trying to foster community in

522

a way that's really special, but in a

place where it seems to be very difficult.

523

Um, I really struggle with it.

524

I'm constantly looking to meet

more musicians and I find that I

525

have more musician friends spread

around the U S and I do here.

526

Even though I meet more people

here than I do other places.

527

Jason English (Host): Well in

terms of like wanting to be the

528

musician and the artist that you

want to be, do you think you're.

529

Do you think it's advantageous to you

that you're not part of Nashville or

530

Austin, you know, or, or whatever, and

that you're, you are in New York, or do

531

you think there's, you've got more work

to do to, to sort of get, get out there

532

and, and, and meet the right people.

533

Mae Krell: I think that it's, for me,

and maybe this'll change, or maybe this

534

is an incorrect perspective, but what I

feel like I'm missing the most is time.

535

And that time can be bought by a lower

cost of living, or by, I don't know,

536

someone who wants to give me money.

537

Like, but more realistically, by having

more time to like, put into learning

538

how to play my instrument better

and picking up, like, my girlfriend

539

got me a banjo for my birthday.

540

I really want to, like, start properly

playing it and I really want to play

541

mandolin and kind of spend time really

focusing in on a lot of these things

542

that I'd really like to do that I think

will make me a better musician and

543

a better writer and a better artist.

544

And the issue that I run into is

just I have to work a certain amount

545

of hours to afford to live, and

I have to work a certain amount

546

of additional hours to afford to

be able to record and make music.

547

On top of it and doing all of that

doesn't leave that much time to be

548

a musician Unfortunately, and it's a

constant struggle that I go through.

549

Um, a constant crisis that I

have I don't really think that

550

Being somewhere else will help.

551

I think it might hurt it

just in a technical way.

552

Like my experiences in restaurants,

New York restaurants have a really

553

high ceiling of where you can go.

554

And I've been in the industry

for a handful of years now.

555

And I just keep kind of

like inching my way up.

556

And as I do that, I buy

myself a little bit more time.

557

Like where I worked right before

COVID, I had to make the amount

558

I would have needed to live.

559

I would have had less time than I do now.

560

Um, and so it's, I feel like

if anything, I would feel.

561

More isolated somewhere where there

was more to do because I'd feel like

562

I'd be able to do even less of it You

know, like there's so much there's

563

so many shows going on in Nashville

and so many places to go and so many

564

people to meet And that's so cool I

feel like I enjoy it more when I visit

565

because I can visit and put my head a

hundred percent in that mindset Because

566

when I'm a visitor That's what I am.

567

I'm not working as a server.

568

I'm not making a living.

569

I'm on there As a visitor

for like a week or two.

570

So I can spend that time like

really involved in the local scene.

571

Whereas I think if I lived there

and I had to keep up with all these

572

other pieces, I probably would end

up doing less than I would like to.

573

And that would maybe end up

more isolating, but that's all

574

from an outside perspective.

575

I don't, I don't know

what it would actually be

576

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

577

Yeah.

578

Well, if it wasn't New York, where would

you, where would you want to be right now?

579

Mae Krell: Honestly, I want to be in some

sort of vehicle in the middle of nowhere.

580

Jason English (Host): Oh, wow.

581

There you go.

582

Mae Krell: I own an RV or like a,

or like a school bus or something.

583

I lived in, um, a rooftop tent with

Apollo for three and a half months on

584

top of my car and had the most amazing

time ever and that's when I started

585

writing the album, um, originally.

586

I need, I feel, I don't

own a lot of things.

587

I need very little, like, to, to be happy.

588

Um, I definitely, I feel like I own

more guitars than I own anything else.

589

But, um, That's my like, ideal scenario.

590

Yeah, and now Vanjo here

and hopefully Mendelyn

591

soon.

592

Yeah, I like the idea of being, being

able to have some sort of home base

593

that can travel where I can move around

and I can see places or be places in

594

kind of like a slow travel way where

I can integrate into a local scene and

595

spend time somewhere but not have to

like so heavily commit to being there

596

that if I end up unhappy I can't leave.

597

I have a lot of like

commitment issues in that way.

598

I think, um, not really.

599

I didn't go to school, so I

didn't leave New York for college.

600

I've never really had like a

temporary like leave from where

601

I'm from, like, By my own choice.

602

And I think that that's created a lot

of fear of like committing to somewhere

603

new and then being unhappy and then

having to figure out a way to leave.

604

Um, and so instead I'm like, well,

how can I cross in the middle and go

605

places without being trapped to them?

606

And there's so many like seasonal

jobs and things that you can do.

607

So that's, that's kind of my, my

short term, short term, longterm plan.

608

Ideally by next, next year

I can get out of here.

609

Jason English (Host): Okay.

610

Well, cool.

611

Well, um, so here's, here's the

great thing about music, right?

612

Uh, I'm almost 50.

613

I'm a male, almost 50 lives in the South.

614

And, uh, I feel connected to you who

is, you know, probably in her twenties,

615

I would imagine still, is that fair?

616

Mae Krell: Yeah, I'm 25

617

Jason English (Host): Female in her

twenties that, uh, lives in New York.

618

I'm a Christian.

619

I think you're Jewish.

620

Right?

621

So, so the opposites, uh, there's

a lot of opposites going on, right?

622

Um, but the music I feel

connected to you, right?

623

And I think that's the, that's

the brilliance of music in

624

general, but like, especially the

music that I've heard from you.

625

Um, so that's awesome.

626

And, uh, and I think the, the

songs that I've, that I've heard,

627

uh, off the new album are great.

628

And so that's, that's what I

want to jump into now, I guess.

629

Uh, the new album is called, I think.

630

Parentheses.

631

I might be grown.

632

So there's a little bit

of hesitation there.

633

Is that

634

Mae Krell: Yes, 100%.

635

For sure.

636

Jason English (Host): What's the,

uh, what's the genesis of that

637

Mae Krell: Um,

638

Jason English (Host):

like, like that title?

639

Mae Krell: yeah.

640

So the title is the closing lyric

of the album from the song Grown.

641

I like the idea of titling the record

something that wasn't necessarily a

642

track name, but kind of referenced one.

643

That was more of like a situation.

644

And after kind of going through

and getting a handful of options,

645

I landed in that direction.

646

Um, one grown is one of my, if not my

favorite song on the album, but I think

647

that a lot of, a lot of this, this album,

and really the overall concept of it is

648

this idea of growing up when you didn't

plan to, or you didn't think you would.

649

Um, And you just weren't really prepared

for any of it and how that feels

650

because the experiences of growing

up in that kind of like coming of age

651

are similar but different for everyone

but the ages at which you experience

652

them can be vastly different and that

can be for a lot of different reasons.

653

And I know that like, at 25, I'm

not grown up, I know I would like

654

to hope that I'm gonna keep growing

and changing and that this isn't

655

necessarily where I'm gonna land

forever, um, I'd like to believe that.

656

But there's also that piece of

like, well I'm not a kid anymore,

657

and I am settled into some sort of

adulthood, and that's something that

658

I never really thought I would have.

659

It's like that, that piece of like, living

longer than you ever thought you would.

660

And then somehow having more time

makes you feel like you don't

661

have enough because suddenly your

life is big and you want more time

662

than you ever thought you had.

663

Um, and it's this constant like

back and forth, um, feeling, but

664

having the album title land on,

like, I don't think I'm grown.

665

I don't think that naming the album

grown would have done it justice.

666

I don't think that the album is a

solid and, you know, And full thought

667

through, like, thought in that way.

668

I think that having it hesitate a little

bit is what makes it feel right, and

669

what makes it feel like it fits, kind of.

670

Jason English (Host): Okay.

671

No, that's cool.

672

I'm 50.

673

I don't think I'm grown

674

Mae Krell: There you go.

675

Jason English (Host): what it's worth.

676

So

677

Mae Krell: My mom says that all the time.

678

She's like, I'm 62 and I'm still

growing, I'm still changing all the time.

679

And I'm like, yeah mom, yeah you

680

are.

681

Jason English (Host): to.

682

follow you on Instagram, you're, you've

started to not only sprinkle some of the

683

singles out into the, into the universe,

but you're releasing these little excerpts

684

and little, I don't know what they're

called, but like little commentary, if

685

that's fair on, on some of the songs.

686

And so I want to read, uh, you did

this about a week or so ago, uh,

687

you, you titled it, um, to begin.

688

Uh, and it's, it's sort of like

this notion of, you know, beginning

689

stages of a healthy, healthy process.

690

Uh, you talk about like a messy start

and then, and then you say that the

691

sentiments of having to forgive your

younger self for actions that ended up

692

hurting you deep, hurting you deeply

as you grew up always seem difficult

693

for me and it still is, right?

694

So talk to us about that.

695

Mae Krell: Yeah, uh, to begin

is, is track two off the album.

696

So what I've been doing is as I've

been putting out the singles, I

697

did these little like collages

that Caro and my friend made with

698

like the storyline of the songs.

699

And then now that we had like a

certain amount of time left between

700

the last single we put out in the

album, we've been putting out these

701

little explanations of the songs.

702

The remaining songs that aren't singles

to kind of give an opportunity to

703

have like the narrative of those.

704

So like I, I have one on my desktop that I

need to write and post, um, for tomorrow.

705

And to begin as I wrote it

706

So it was kind of like in the

middle process of writing the album.

707

And it kind of became like.

708

The opening.

709

So there's the intro track, which is

Garden 2, and then to begin kind of

710

is the opening of the album and like

you mentioned like it's meant to be

711

the kind of like uncomfortable messy

start of both the project and the

712

storyline that we're kind of coming into.

713

Um, I made a lot of

mistakes when I was younger.

714

I think It's a product of struggling

really deeply, having a little bit too

715

much access to freedom, living in a big

city where there just, there's everything

716

around you all the time, and also just

717

not really thinking that I

would ever have to live with or

718

experience the consequences that

would come from my own actions.

719

Like, I just didn't really think I

would stick around very long, and so I,

720

I just never thought that I would have

to internally deal with any of what.

721

I was putting myself through, um, and

so to begin to me feels like kind of a,

722

a way of acknowledging other people did

things to hurt me, but I put myself in the

723

situations for those things to be done.

724

And now I'm distance from that and

I'm no longer doing those things,

725

but I still have all of these fears

and anxieties and leftover pain

726

from stuff that I put myself in.

727

And how do you, How do you

forgive yourself and move on?

728

and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

729

And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

730

lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

731

Can I at least ask to begin?

732

That's kind of what the lyric that the

song name comes from is so it's just

733

saying like I don't know if I can promise

That I'm gonna be okay with all this stuff

734

But I can promise that I'm gonna try to

be and like that's gonna have to be enough

735

Jason English (Host):

Well, that's amazing.

736

Yeah, that's really good.

737

Um, what other tracks I imagine I, I know

I, I was the one that brought, brought

738

that up, but what other songs kind of

stick out to you, um, in terms of the,

739

obviously I'm sure it's the whole album

for you, but, uh, what are the, what are

740

the one or two other tracks that sort

of represent you the best, do you think?

741

Um, and, and where you're at and, and what

you want to accomplish with this album?

742

Mae Krell: Yeah, um, from, I guess,

including all of them, like, not only

743

the singles or non singles, um, Apollo's

Song and Grown, track 10, track 11, uh,

744

both of which were singles, kind of feel

like the, the wrap up of the project is

745

like, here's what we just went through,

here's what we're feeling, here it is

746

wrapped into like a clean storyline.

747

Um, They're both really,

really special to me.

748

It was also the first and last song

that were written for the album.

749

So I wrote Apollo's song

first and I wrote Grown last.

750

Um,

751

Yeah.

752

and sorry, the puppy is

requesting to be brought back in.

753

So you can

754

Is that Apollo or

755

cut that out.

756

No, it's the puppy.

757

Um, but, yeah, I wrote

Come on, here you go.

758

Go over there.

759

Um, Apollo's still asleep.

760

Um Yeah, Apollo's song is kind of this

761

projection onto my dog of seeing her age

and in turn realizing that I am also aging

762

and that I will likely continue to age as

my dog gets so old that she passes away.

763

And when I got her, like, I

didn't think that I would.

764

would live longer than she did.

765

I, I just didn't really plan to.

766

And so that's, that song is kind of like

following that type of idea and, and how

767

things change and like my best friend is

getting married soon and, and your life

768

is just suddenly this whole big thing

that you just never really imagined would

769

be real and that's really, really cool.

770

And it's also terrifying and it's

also beautiful and everything, you

771

know, can reach that point, but

you have to stick around for it.

772

And that's the hard part.

773

Like, it's gonna get there, but

sticking around through everything

774

else to get to that point is really

difficult, and like, acknowledging that.

775

Um, and grown is kind of sitting in

with a lot of fear and anxiety and the

776

feelings that I have about adulthood and

myself and aging and like the crisis I

777

have every year when I have a birthday.

778

Um, and I that that's the one

that I feel like is most Like I'm

779

most connected to like in this

exact moment But it definitely

780

can change like as time goes on.

781

Too hard is also really really special

to me That's the one my little sister

782

helped me write or helped me finish it

783

off um And that one started as like a

complete stream of consciousness Like

784

i'm not writing music and I need to

force myself to write something i'm

785

gonna play You really simple chords and

just like spit out what I'm feeling.

786

And then it got, it developed from

that into something bigger and um,

787

into like a really, I, I think probably

the most personal song on the whole

788

project, which says a lot considering

the whole thing is really personal.

789

Um, but just about this fear of like

being loved and in turn a fear of being

790

known both by herself and by other people.

791

I think those are kind of the ones that

I'm most Attached to in this moment.

792

Jason English (Host): Okay.

793

So you've alluded to it a few times,

and I don't want to assume anything,

794

and I'm trying to make the connection

with what you said about you didn't

795

think you'd outlive Apollo, and then,

you know, possibly, I don't know if

796

your time in Utah, but like, did you,

did you struggle with sort of, you

797

know, Suicide or do you think that,

you know, drugs were going to kill you?

798

Like what, what was, what was the,

799

Mae Krell: Just like

all, all of the above.

800

It was going to be anything in my

head that, just anything at all.

801

I just didn't, I think there was

just so many points in my, my life

802

when I was younger that I was so

unhappy and I didn't really know why.

803

Like I couldn't pinpoint it.

804

Like nothing at times,

nothing was really wrong.

805

I just felt a certain way.

806

Before you have, like, the privilege

to get into an office with a doctor

807

who's kind and understanding and normal,

because unfortunately that's not super

808

common in my experience, and to have

someone, like, understand and listen

809

and help figure out what's going on,

you just feel like some sort of alien.

810

You know, like, when you're the only

person in your immediate surrounding

811

that's struggling with this, It's

whatever that is, whether it's

812

like addiction or like suicidal

ideation or depression or anxiety

813

or anything else, like mood swings.

814

If nobody else around you is,

is experiencing that to the same

815

degree and nobody is treating

it as anything other than acting

816

out, you just kind of feel insane.

817

And I think that that contributes

a lot to making these like negative

818

decisions to try to like fix it.

819

But, you know, like I, I'm like very

like thankful and, um, excited to

820

live and be sober now, but for a

long time, like when I was younger,

821

drugs were what kept me alive.

822

You know, I don't think I would have stuck

around if I didn't have something to make

823

me feel okay, even though it then got to

a point where it almost killed me later.

824

And so the followup was, I'm lucky that

I was able to get away from that and

825

now live a full life without substances.

826

But there's always, there's that double

edge to everything where sometimes the

827

things that are really bad for you, keep

you going long enough to find what you.

828

Needed that is gonna be good for you or to

find the help that you needed to be okay

829

Jason English (Host): Right.

830

Did your, did your challenges

happen mostly before the

831

pandemic

832

Mae Krell: Yeah, I was

833

Jason English (Host): was there overlap?

834

Mae Krell: Mean like here and there I

feel like the primary like my primary

835

issues like that before they were When

I felt really hopeless like the point

836

that I was struggling so much that

there was absolutely no hope on the

837

horizon at all was like in my teenage

years into like Being like, maybe 20.

838

I got sober for the first time when

I was like, two months shy of 19.

839

Um, and it's been like, in and out.

840

And now I feel like I'm in a really

like, solid point of like, almost

841

three years of sobriety, um, again.

842

Which is wonderful.

843

But it was definitely like, primarily

when I was younger, I think once I kind

844

of was into a solid point of sobriety.

845

The first time around, I had regained

a sort of like hope for living.

846

Like my life was getting bigger and I

was like making friends and being around

847

people who like wanted to be around

me and my family was excited to be

848

around me and my dog wanted to see me.

849

And, um, I was able to develop

like genuine friendships with depth

850

because I was a full person who was

in front of someone and not some

851

sort of like shell of something.

852

And.

853

having like a relapse doesn't necessarily

take that away or change it rather than

854

when you're constantly in that space

and have never been outside of it.

855

So I feel like the,

like, I still struggle.

856

It's not like any of this stuff is

like a, you know, you, you get better

857

and it switches off, but it's a very

different type of struggle because

858

there's an awareness that all of it

is can be for something, you know,

859

like I've had, I can think of a couple

distinct moments that I've had where,

860

um, mostly music related, that I'm

just kind of like, oh, like all this

861

hard stuff, like is, is worth something

because it might benefit someone else.

862

Um, and, and having

863

that

864

awareness is what makes the struggle

feel very different to me rather than

865

just kind of endless and hopeless.

866

Being able

867

Jason English (Host): So I think,

uh, I think you had said at one

868

point that you wrote your first

song, I think when you were 16, even

869

before you knew how to play guitar.

870

Um, how did that process of, you know,

kind of leaving your interests as a

871

hobby and as a job with the, with the,

you know, you used to be a concert,

872

you know, photographer and all that.

873

And then you, you kind of tilted

towards the, to the music.

874

It seems like, you know, the struggles

that you just just that you just

875

articulated, how much did music play a

role in, um, either distracting you from

876

from some of that hardship and struggle?

877

Uh, did it play any role?

878

I guess I don't want to make an

assumption that it was like the savior

879

or anything, but like, how do you

think you would have been the artist

880

and musician that you are today?

881

Kind of without that struggle.

882

And then did it, did it help

you kind of get out of that?

883

And it becomes

884

over.

885

Mae Krell: Yeah, I think that I don't

think I would be the same musician that

886

I am today without the stuff that I've

gone through because so much of what I

887

write about is in that spirit of like kind

of trying to reach people and especially

888

for me like teenagers like people love

to joke about like the fan your fan base

889

being like younger or Whatever, but I

really like cherish the fact that the

890

fan base that I have are like younger

You Like, you know, at some points,

891

like, kids and teenagers, a lot of times,

like, queer kids from, like, states where

892

maybe they can't really be comfortable

or out the same way that they would be

893

somewhere else, and they see someone

that is grown up compared to them and

894

living a life that's, like, authentic

and, like, They're just so excited about

895

that because to them they see hope in it

and like that's so special and so cool

896

Um, and not something that I ever thought

about before I started making music.

897

I don't think I like conceptualized

that at all um as like a reality that

898

could exist um And I think that I'd

probably make very different music if

899

I hadn't experienced what I did But I

also would be a vastly different person

900

um And that's a weird thing to think

about because You know, you want to be

901

like, I'm not my experiences and I'm

not like the things I've struggled with.

902

And I think it's, they don't, those things

don't necessarily define you, but they do

903

put you in a place to then use them for

good if you want to, if you're able to.

904

Um, you know, it would have helped

me as like a 16, 15, 14 year old to

905

see someone that felt tangible to me

that was like living authentically.

906

And.

907

is healthy and has been through

something that I maybe either struggle

908

with or something similar to and isn't

pretending like they're healed or

909

fixed from it, but just is Showing some

sort of hope that it can get better.

910

You know, like I needed that when I was

a kid um and so I think the hope in In

911

putting yourself through the hard parts

of sharing that is that you're gonna be

912

that for someone else who really needs it

913

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

914

Well, I talked to another musician

a couple months ago, and she, I was

915

asking her about, you know, because

she came from a band in Europe.

916

It was like the ACDC

917

of women rock in Europe is this crazy,

crazy band called Thunder Mother.

918

Of all things.

919

Uh, but now she's in Nashville.

920

She's Irish and she's in Nashville.

921

And I was asking her about like the

difference between playing like big,

922

you know, big shows in Europe versus

like the coffee shops, you know, or

923

hotel lobbies in and around Nashville.

924

And she's like, you know what?

925

Like, like to the point earlier,

it doesn't really matter.

926

But she's like, if I could just

reach one person, to talk about like

927

the, cause she was very passionate

about mental health, you know, and

928

like, uh, self care and all that.

929

And she's like, you know, it's, it's

always worth it to just hear from

930

one fan or talk to somebody after a

show that said, you know, that song

931

or your message or whatever that is,

you know, really, really touched me.

932

And she's like, that's, that's

kind of what I'm doing it now.

933

So like, you know, credit to you,

like, you know, good things will happen

934

based on the songs that you write,

you know, and the music that you make.

935

Um, But I hope that you can

reach as many people as you can.

936

Cause like, to your point, those examples,

people need authenticity, you know?

937

Mae Krell: Yeah.

938

People are looking for hope in

everything, I think, especially

939

like now, you know, the world is

very bleak sometimes, or it can be,

940

and there's so many cool things, you

know, like so many beautiful moments

941

that you can experience, but you have

to be not so blocked out to them,

942

and I think that a lot of times when

you are like really struggling with

943

any sort of mental health issues or.

944

Maybe something with your family,

or maybe you're going through

945

something really difficult.

946

There's kind of like a block that like

exists, like a line that you just, you see

947

everything like tinted in a different way.

948

And sometimes you just need

someone to help get you out of it.

949

I've needed it.

950

I've found it in music.

951

I still do so much of the time.

952

I'm such a like fan, you know, like

as, like of other musicians and um, You

953

know, like, we'll drive, like, hours to

a show because, you know, it's a solo

954

tour from a, like, an artist from a

band that I love, and it's like an 80

955

capacity room for someone who I've seen

play to 2, 000 people, and I'll drive,

956

like, two, three hours, you know, like,

I, I still am like that, um, just to

957

care so deeply about, about music that

makes you feel something, and I think

958

that that's, that's so special, and I

just hope to do that for someone else.

959

Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

960

All right.

961

So last question.

962

Uh, and I really appreciate your time.

963

Um, so that, you know, this, this, this

podcast is based on, you know, a show

964

that I, love that you need to watch called

965

Mae Krell: I I will watch it.

966

Jason English (Host): But, you

know, curiosity is a big part of it.

967

So, uh, it seems like you've experienced a

lot of things in your, in your young life.

968

Uh, but you, you've also, uh,

I don't know if you've seen

969

the world, uh, other than Utah,

970

just kidding.

971

Um, and you know, some

972

Mae Krell: a handful, yeah.

973

Jason English (Host): some spots here

and there, but what, what are you most

974

curious about at this stage in your life?

975

Mae Krell: That's a really good question.

976

I think other people and stories and, and

learning more about people's relationships

977

to the things that they care about, um,

the things that they don't care about.

978

Just what, what gets people going and

what keeps them running is something

979

that I'm always, um, Just learning more

about and wanting to learn more about.

980

And then I am big, big into

travel and seeing places.

981

I want to, um, check off my

last couple states in the U.

982

S.

983

And then I think I have four or five left.

984

And then I want to start

seeing other places as well.

985

So I'm just always curious about

people and their perspectives

986

and their experiences.

987

Jason English (Host): All right.

988

Well, have you been to Georgia?

989

You should come down to Georgia.

990

Mae Krell: I've been, very briefly,

I've been through Atlanta very, very

991

briefly, but I, Georgia is one of the

states that I feel like I've spent,

992

like, a very minimal amount of time in.

993

Like, I've been there, and I can be

like, I've been to Georgia, but I

994

wanna, like, actually make it down

to Georgia, like, properly, you know?

995

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

996

No, the venue that you need to

hit up is, uh, is, Eddie's Attic

997

Mae Krell: I've heard such good, it's

in, it's in Decatur, how do you pronounce

998

Jason English (Host): Decatur.

999

Mae Krell: I've heard really

good things about that venue.

00:54:38,729 --> 00:54:39,949

Jason English (Host): I could

totally see you play that.

00:54:40,619 --> 00:54:42,239

It's, it's, it's one

of the best ones here.

00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,879

So, so speaking of playing,

uh, could you play a

00:54:45,949 --> 00:54:46,549

song or two?

00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:47,919

Mae Krell: Yeah, of course.

00:54:48,329 --> 00:54:48,899

I'd love to.

00:54:50,229 --> 00:54:50,509

Cool.

00:54:50,869 --> 00:54:51,749

Yeah, I can

00:54:53,799 --> 00:54:56,969

play, let me play, I'll play Grown, and

then I can play Apollo's Song, if that is

00:54:57,129 --> 00:54:57,489

Jason English (Host): Okay.

00:55:06,349 --> 00:55:11,314

Mae Krell: There's nothing I want

more than to be someone else.

00:55:13,574 --> 00:55:14,754

My recurring wish.

00:55:15,024 --> 00:55:17,674

Sean Birthday candles.

00:55:21,324 --> 00:55:33,124

And the grass might not be greener, But

I'm sure it's easier to take care of.

00:55:37,209 --> 00:55:43,329

There is nothing I fear more

than growing into my skin.

00:55:44,849 --> 00:55:49,804

What if this is the best it gets?

00:55:52,304 --> 00:56:02,734

And the flowers, they might not be taller,

but I'm sure they needed less to grow.

00:56:07,944 --> 00:56:15,294

I'm still scared of the

dark, terrified of growing.

00:56:20,689 --> 00:56:23,734

But I think I might be grown.

00:56:27,169 --> 00:56:29,014

I'm still scared,

00:56:32,194 --> 00:56:32,854

terrified.

00:56:34,894 --> 00:56:42,654

I think I might be wrong

00:56:45,724 --> 00:56:51,964

There's nothing I fear more

than learning I've found myself

00:56:53,684 --> 00:56:56,374

And that this is all there is

00:57:00,879 --> 00:57:09,909

My whole eternity searched for

meaning, I'm sure there must

00:57:09,939 --> 00:57:14,736

be something more than this.

00:57:14,736 --> 00:57:20,719

What if there's more than this?

00:57:24,839 --> 00:57:28,859

I'm still scared of the.

00:57:37,234 --> 00:57:40,374

But I think I might be grown.

00:57:43,969 --> 00:57:45,619

I'm still scared,

00:57:48,859 --> 00:57:49,459

terrified

00:57:52,274 --> 00:57:52,494

to,

00:57:56,454 --> 00:57:57,934

I think I might be.

00:58:00,294 --> 00:58:02,054

I think I might be.

00:58:07,844 --> 00:58:08,444

Jason English (Host): Thank you.

00:58:10,489 --> 00:58:13,019

Mae Krell: Actually, I bought this guitar.

00:58:14,034 --> 00:58:15,174

because of this song.

00:58:15,564 --> 00:58:18,734

I was, I was out in LA

and I wrote this song.

00:58:18,774 --> 00:58:22,084

I, well, I'd gone to like this

guitar shop, um, where this guy

00:58:22,084 --> 00:58:24,044

like modifies like vintage guitars.

00:58:24,434 --> 00:58:26,494

And I played this guitar and

I was like obsessed with it.

00:58:26,494 --> 00:58:28,034

I was like, I cannot

buy a guitar right now.

00:58:28,034 --> 00:58:30,364

I'm about to drive like

45 hours home to New York.

00:58:30,364 --> 00:58:31,054

Like I can't do that.

00:58:31,054 --> 00:58:31,814

I have no space in my car.

00:58:31,814 --> 00:58:33,004

I've been living in it for three months.

00:58:33,534 --> 00:58:37,814

And I went back to where I was staying and

ended up writing a Paula song that night.

00:58:38,304 --> 00:58:40,454

And it was something named

something different at the time.

00:58:40,564 --> 00:58:42,274

Um, and.

00:58:42,609 --> 00:58:46,449

In my head it like was played on this

guitar like the way I remembered it

00:58:46,449 --> 00:58:49,329

sounding and like I was playing it on

the Guitar that I had and I was like this

00:58:49,329 --> 00:58:52,349

just doesn't sound right Like it doesn't

sound like that And I knew that when I

00:58:52,349 --> 00:58:55,669

wanted to record it eventually that it

would have to be on this guitar And I

00:58:55,669 --> 00:58:59,289

was like, well, I just I don't guess I

just have to go buy it So I told myself

00:58:59,319 --> 00:59:04,184

that if the guitar store was gonna be was

open Before I left LA the next morning,

00:59:04,184 --> 00:59:08,024

so I was about to drive the 48 hours

back to New York, that I would go buy it.

00:59:08,084 --> 00:59:10,984

And then I checked their hours,

and for some reason on Fridays,

00:59:10,984 --> 00:59:12,854

they opened at 9 and not at noon.

00:59:12,884 --> 00:59:14,994

And I was like, I just gotta get it.

00:59:15,034 --> 00:59:15,594

I just gotta do it.

00:59:15,594 --> 00:59:18,644

So I just went and then I bought

this 100 year old guitar, um,

00:59:18,654 --> 00:59:20,624

specifically because of Apollo's song.

00:59:21,084 --> 00:59:23,854

So it's extra, extra

special for that reason.

00:59:24,704 --> 00:59:25,054

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

00:59:42,329 --> 00:59:49,999

Mae Krell: Dogman to all of me is

starting to get old My best friend's

00:59:49,999 --> 00:59:58,479

name will change soon, floral blueprints

On the floor, and I've thought a lot of

00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:05,729

leaving the only city I've ever known.

01:00:12,269 --> 01:00:12,459

They

01:00:14,539 --> 01:00:22,744

clipped it's wings, but

somehow time's gone.

01:00:22,744 --> 01:00:38,994

And I never saw myself walking down an

aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd look like

01:00:39,954 --> 01:00:50,589

past twenty five Dreams were a luxury that

I couldn't afford Couldn't afford, and now

01:00:53,059 --> 01:01:03,819

I'm living a future I never thought

I'd have The dog meant to outlive me

01:01:03,819 --> 01:01:13,184

is Showing her white hair My little

brother's off to college, someone had

01:01:13,194 --> 01:01:27,129

to please my parents, and I'm starting

to worry that I'll never adapt to this.

01:01:27,129 --> 01:01:35,599

Thought I clipped it.

01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:55,400

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd

01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:09,704

look like Past 25 dreams were a

luxury that I couldn't afford and now

01:02:12,854 --> 01:02:21,944

I'm living a future I never

thought I'd have What do you

01:02:21,994 --> 01:02:26,024

do with a life you didn't plan

01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:33,129

Sucker punch straight

into your wildest dreams.

01:02:33,129 --> 01:02:40,799

And worries to good things

don't come unpunished.

01:02:43,009 --> 01:02:46,979

Think I might finally

stop praying for relief.

01:02:49,804 --> 01:03:00,134

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle But I'm starting to look

01:03:00,454 --> 01:03:11,364

pretty damn close to twenty five Dreams

were a luxury that I couldn't afford

01:03:25,729 --> 01:03:26,399

Jason English (Host): So beautiful.

01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:27,038

Thank you, Mae

01:03:27,159 --> 01:03:28,529

Mae Krell: you, thank you, for

01:03:28,579 --> 01:03:29,669

Jason English (Host): That guitar sounds,

01:03:29,749 --> 01:03:31,119

the guitar is perfect.

01:03:31,179 --> 01:03:32,319

Mae Krell: It's cool, right?

01:03:32,869 --> 01:03:36,019

It's it's it has a rubber bridge

on it, that's why it sounds weird.

01:03:37,189 --> 01:03:38,669

like plucky and weird.

01:03:38,909 --> 01:03:39,959

I'm so obsessed with it.

01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:42,439

I feel like it writes, like

it writes songs itself.

01:03:42,499 --> 01:03:44,659

Like anything you play on this

guitar just sounds better.

01:03:45,629 --> 01:03:46,049

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

01:03:47,949 --> 01:03:50,509

Uh, well, I really appreciate

your time and, you know, have a

01:03:50,509 --> 01:03:55,538

great April, big April for you

01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:56,169

Mae Krell: Thank you.

01:03:56,199 --> 01:03:56,829

Thank you for your time.

01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:57,579

I really appreciate it.

01:04:05,169 --> 01:04:06,729

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

01:04:06,729 --> 01:04:08,519

episode of Curious Goldfish.

01:04:08,959 --> 01:04:12,239

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

01:04:12,819 --> 01:04:15,439

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

01:04:16,189 --> 01:04:18,288

Until next time, stay curious.