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A Chat with Mae Krell: Debut Album Represents Journey Through Struggles & Sobriety
Episode 271st July 2024 • Curious Goldfish • Jason English
00:00:00 01:04:28

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Mae Krell on Music, Growth, and Personal Healing: A Journey from New York's Indie Scene

In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews indie artist Mae Krell, touching upon her personal journey, music, and healing process. Mae opens up about her struggles growing up in New York City, her challenges with mental health and sobriety, and how these experiences have shaped her music. They discuss Mae's latest album, 'I Might Be Grown', the significance of its title, and some key tracks, such as 'Apollo's Song' and 'Grown'. Mae also talks about the process of building genuine connections with her fans, the evolving music industry, and her ambitions for the future. The episode concludes with Mae performing two songs from her album.

00:00 Introduction to Self-Forgiveness

01:05 Welcome to Curious Goldfish

01:45 Discovering Mae Krell

03:00 Mae Krell's Musical Journey

05:21 Touring and Album Release

10:02 The Independent Artist's Hustle

22:52 Life in New York vs. Nashville

29:32 Balancing Life and Isolation

30:35 Dreams of a Nomadic Lifestyle

32:25 The New Album: I Might Be Grown

35:47 The Story Behind 'To Begin'

42:58 Personal Reflections and Sobriety

47:13 Music as a Lifeline

52:45 Curiosity and Future Plans

54:50 Live Performance: 'Grown' and 'Apollo's Song'

01:03:47 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

Transcripts

Mae Krell:

long, and so I I just never thought that I would have to

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internally deal with any I was putting

myself through, um, and so to begin

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to me feels like kind of a, a way of

acknowledging other people did things

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to hurt me, but I put myself in the

situations for those things distance

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from that and I'm no longer doing

those things, but I still have all of

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these fears and anxieties and leftover

pain from stuff that I put myself in.

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And How do you forgive

yourself and move on?

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and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

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And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

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lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

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Can I at least ask to begin?

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That's kind of what the lyric that

the song name comes from is so it's

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just saying like I don't know if I can

promise That I'm gonna be okay with all

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this stuff But I can promise that I'm

gonna try to be and like that's gonna

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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I love a playlist called

Indie Folk Central.

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It's available on Spotify.

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Yes, but the one I love is the one that

plays on YouTube, curated by someone named

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Rufus, the YouTube version has simple

yet interesting graphics and includes

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meanings of songs while each one plays

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descriptions provided by

the artists themselves.

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I recall sometime late last year in 2023,

it was a cloudy, maybe even a rainy day,

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and a song started playing by a young

woman who sounded no older than 16.

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It was melancholy, yes, and maybe even

borderline what the kids call sad girl.

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But there was a sweet innocence

to it that it just drew me in.

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The artist singing was Mae Krell

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and in the spirit of curiosity, I

started to dig a little bit deeper into

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her story via Google and Instagram.

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She interested me because of her

New York roots and the fact that

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while she's now in her twenties,

she's lived an interesting life.

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Having started to photograph live

music events in her teens and attending

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the rehabilitation center in Utah.

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When most of the friends her age were

either in high school or college, she

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was late to learn music, fed up with

being behind the lens, taking pictures

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and capturing memories of musicians

doing things that she wanted to do.

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So she picked up the guitar.

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Mae opens up about her personal

journey, discussing the challenges she

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faced growing up in New York city, her

struggles as a teenager and how these

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experiences have shaped her music.

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She delves into the themes of

forgiveness, growth, and the

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healing power of songwriting.

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Specifically highlighting tracks from her

recently released album, I Might Be Grown.

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Mae also shares her thoughts on

the evolving music industry, the

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importance of building genuine

connections with fans, and her dream

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of traveling the country in an RV.

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She also plays two

songs for us at the end.

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Hopefully you will get a sense

of what drew me into her when I

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first heard her on that playlist.

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It doesn't have to be rainy outside.

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Here'seMay Krell of Brooklyn, New York.

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Let's dive in.

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Hi, Mae Nice to meet you.

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Thanks for

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joining.

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Mae Krell: Hi, thanks for

having me, nice to meet you.

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Jason English (Host): And you're,

uh, you're calling in today

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from, uh, your home in, uh, New

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York

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city,

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Mae Krell: Yes, in

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Jason English (Host): In Brooklyn.

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Um, and you grew up in Hell's Kitchen.

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Is that, is that

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what I've

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Mae Krell: Yeah, in the city, I

didn't go too far, just like switched

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boroughs to somewhere where I can

have a yard and a little bit more

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Jason English (Host): That's good.

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And you spent a little time in Utah,

which I thought was interesting.

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Was that, I think you said,

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was that like a

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boarding situation?

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Like,

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uh,

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Mae Krell: Um.

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I got shipped to one of those,

like, troubled teen centers.

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I feel like there's more

about it online now.

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Like, with Paris Hilton's documentary.

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And I think Netflix put out a recent one

as well that I've been meaning to watch.

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But, um, yeah, at the

time it was definitely not

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Jason English (Host): you know,

Colorado to me is like the

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beautiful West and then Utah is also

beautiful, but it's like a different

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planet.

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Mae Krell: no, I

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Jason English (Host): but I'm

sure you, you probably didn't,

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you probably didn't see much of it

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though, right?

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Mae Krell: Now, just like the little

section that we were at, and then we did

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go on a Moab trip, so I got to see Moab.

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I've been back since.

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I love Colorado, it's gorgeous.

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Um, and I've been back in Utah to like

travel, and I saw some of the parks

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in the south, and definitely agree.

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There's one very specific place that I

think of when I think of Utah looking at

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a different planet, and it's like the It's

like locally called Moon Landing Road in

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southern Utah and it just like looks like

you're on the moon when you get to the end

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of this like crazy like eight mile road.

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Um, and I show people

photos of it all the time.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, that's cool.

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That's, and that's different

than Hell's Kitchen, obviously.

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But,

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Mae Krell: Yeah.

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Jason English (Host): but you're, you're

going to be, so you, you know, you

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live in New York still, um, but you're

going to be hitting the road soon.

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Is this, I know you've toured before,

but is this sort of the first kind

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of, Big ish tour to obviously to

promote your first album, right?

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So is this, uh, is this

a bigger deal than most

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or are you used to something like

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Mae Krell: I've toured like longer

routes before, definitely farther out

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from home, but I've never done any

sort of even like co headline tour.

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So this is the first

shows I've played where.

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Like my friend Grace Gardner and

I are like co headlining them.

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I've been being out as

like an opening act.

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So, it feels like a bigger

deal for that reason.

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Um, but, and I am very excited.

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I've never been to Montreal.

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That one's, it's a city that

I've wanted to check out.

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And we have a show out

there, so I'm really excited.

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Jason English (Host): that's awesome.

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Yeah.

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And April's pretty big month, right?

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So you're, you're, you're

going on a tour this weekend.

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So this is the first week of April

that when we're talking, but it's

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this weekend and you're, you're doing

that for a few weeks and then the

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album comes out later

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this month,

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Mae Krell: Yeah, yeah, the

tour starts a week from today.

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And then, so like Tuesday, April 9th.

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And then the album is out on the 19th, and

we have an album release show in New York.

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So we're doing like a very quick

loop, like up to Boston, Montreal,

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Toronto, and then kind of through

back into like Chicago, Indianapolis,

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Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and back

to New York, all in 10 days.

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It's very like stacked back

to back, but I'm excited.

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Jason English (Host): so yeah.

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How excited are you?

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I mean, this has to be a process

that you've been working on for for

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quite a bit,

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Mae Krell: The album has definitely

been, like, a long, really big project.

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I mean, any, like, debut

full length is gonna be.

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Um, the tour kind of came about in a

very I don't wanna say accidental, but,

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um, I wanted to play an album release

show in New York, and I texted my

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friend Grace, who lives down in Philly,

and was like, hey, do you wanna come?

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Up to play this show and they were

like, yeah, I would love to like, do

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you want to try to play one in Boston?

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I've been meaning to play in Boston.

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I was like, yeah, I

want to play in Boston.

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And we just kind of kept like

snowballing and reaching out to venues.

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And, um, the responses were a

lot faster than I'm used to.

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I don't know if it's just the time of year

or what, but we booked this whole run,

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like in the span of a couple of weeks,

like really, really quick, um, which is

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unusual in my experience, but very lucky.

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So I am very excited about it.

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Jason English (Host): no, that's great.

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And you've been sort of dripping

out the individual singles

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for the last few months,

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right?

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Mae Krell: Yeah, Apollo

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Jason English (Host): How

long have you, how long?

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Yeah.

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How long have you been

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working on the album?

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Okay.

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Mae Krell: which was also

quintet, the first single,

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um, in like November of 2022.

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And then I started recording

the album in like June of:

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So it wasn't a super long writing

process, all things considered.

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But I also, after Apollo song

was written in, in late:

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Kind of very Purposefully and

intentionally was like I'm gonna write

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a record like I want to put out a full

length LP And that's what I want to write

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with that all in mind and so I think that

that like being that Intentional was what

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allowed the writing to kind of come in

what to me felt like a shorter time frame

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I may know some people write an album

in two weeks, but that would not be me.

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Otherwise and then we did the recording

over the summer of Last year and

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started like dropping out the singles

and Late september was the first one.

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So it's it's been

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It'll be like september like late

september through late april as

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like an album cycle which I don't

know how many months that is but

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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All right.

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No, that's good.

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That's good.

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So I came across your stuff.

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Um, uh, I'm a big follower of, uh, this

playlist on YouTube called Indie Folk

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Central.

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Uh, yeah.

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And, um, you know, it's one of

those things where they play

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so much, so much great music.

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And, you know, I'll look at the,

you know, look at the screen when

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it's on the television and I'll

pick up the artists and I'll look

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them up on Spotify or whatever.

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And, uh, um, yours was just distinct,

uh, among, uh, All the other sounds, you

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know, it's just like the soft delicate

sort of, um, it's like what I envision the

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perfect music to be on a, uh, you know,

don't think this is the wrong way, but

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like a rainy cloudy day, like at a coffee

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shop, you know?

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Mae Krell: Yes.

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No, that is the best compliment.

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I'm like, what are you

gonna take it the wrong way?

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I love that.

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Jason English (Host): So anyway, I was

like, okay, she seems really interesting.

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Uh, yeah, she seems very interesting.

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And so I started following

you and obviously listening.

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And, um, so anyway, that that's

the, that's how I came across,

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uh, your stuff, I guess.

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And I think in another interview, you've

talked about just the whole process

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of being an independent artist and

getting your name out there that it's

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a, it's a complete numbers game and,

uh, the hustle that it requires to, you

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know, basically just cold call and cold

email and cold DM, probably all these.

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Playlist curators.

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And I don't know if you did

that with Indie Folk Central.

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Um, but whatever that worked, uh,

however they found, found you out.

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It worked for me.

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Um, but yeah, talk, talk

about, talk about that.

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Like, is that something you signed

up for, uh, when you got into this

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or was that, has that been kind of a

surprise on, on what that process looks

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like to, to get your name out there?

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Mae Krell: So, yeah, I, I love Indie Folk

Central, I listen to their compilations

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as well, um, and I think I just submitted

through like their site, um, and Rufus

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was kind enough to like the songs and

want to add some of them, which is

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great, and I've done like two of their

like compilation albums on Spotify

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now as well, which has been really

cool, um, the promotion aspect and the

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way of going about it is definitely

something that I feel like is constantly.

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evolving and something that I'm learning

what works and what doesn't and what's

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worth putting your time into and what

isn't because a lot of Playlists like

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there's a value in everything but a lot

of playlists specifically on like Spotify,

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which is a big focus that people put

on Kind of only yields like a passive

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listenership And I think that can be great

depending on What your genre of music is

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and your choice and your goals, but it

that doesn't feel You to me, the more I

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kind of try to choose and internalize,

like, what do I want in my career?

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What do I want in making music?

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And a passive listener base that

like doesn't really care about the

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lyrics or have much of a connection

to anything past the sound of the

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song isn't really what I'm going for.

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So if I only have a limited

amount of time to spend.

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Promoting in a certain way like that over

time has been less and less the direction

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that I've been going And I think that

Indie Folk Central specifically is one

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of those exceptions where sure they have

a good listenership on Spotify But they

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make these compilations on YouTube where

people actually pay attention to the songs

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and they ask you to send a little blurb

about The song and I think it's a cool

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in between like a cross of This is still

a way to reach people, but it's also a

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way to reach people who might actually

care to then follow along with you as an

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artist, rather than just like a playlist

that someone shuffles and doesn't look at.

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Jason English (Host): Right.

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Well, you know, I started this podcast

just a few months ago and I've talked to

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a fair number of people since it's not

surprising, I guess, but one of the pieces

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of feedback I've gotten is, um, you know,

obviously everybody wants, you know, tens

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of millions of streams and, you know,

to headline all these big shows and all

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that, uh, or like most people, like that

would be the goal, but actually a lot

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of these independent artists that I've

talked to, um, They're completely happy

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and satisfied with the loyal fan base.

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Like, like you were talking about, like

the loyal fan base that will go and see

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them or host them at a, at a house show

or go and, and, and, and watch them in a

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listening room, you know, that actually

want to like have a, have a relationship

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with them as much as you can, you know,

virtually or like a fan and artist should,

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that's, you know, healthy and normal.

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Um, they actually.

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Prefer that, uh, as long as obviously

they can make a living and, you know,

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pay the bills and, and, and, and do what

they love to do, which I was kind of

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surprised because I thought, you know,

every artist, you know, the end goal

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would be to, you know, I don't know,

be, uh, headline, headline the big show.

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Like I said, is that

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is that where your head's at?

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Mae Krell: I think so, um, for

sure, like that's very much where

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I've developed to over time.

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But I also think that different artists

fanbases are just a different vibe.

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Um, like I, I went to the Zach Brian

show a couple of nights ago in Brooklyn.

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I love him.

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I love his recent self titled album.

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It's so good.

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And his fan base is so attentive,

um, in a way that I feel like shows

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that that size typically aren't.

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And there's a couple select artists that

I feel like I've seen live at different

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sizes, like maybe bigger than like a

club show, but not as big as an arena.

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Um, and it's kind of a lot of them

are like some of my current favorite

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artists that I'm so attentive to that.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Mae Krell: Overall, fan base

is very engaged and attentive.

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And so I think in an ideal world,

like you can headline the big show

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and also have your fan base be the

type that is attentive and cares.

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But I think that that usually requires a

really slow come up rather than a really

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fast overnight overnight in big quotes.

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But the, the, the like kind of

new age, like overnight success or

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whatever, where like a song does

really well on Tik Tok or like on.

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Reels or somewhere else and suddenly

everybody knows this one song of yours.

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I don't think that necessarily translates

to a dedicated fan base a lot of the

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time because they're dedicated to one

single song they came across recently.

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So when there's been a kind of like a

handful of different moments of that

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success that kind of jumps up over time

and I think that's what you see with these

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artists that are bigger but have that

really dedicated fan base, I think that's

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what creates the cross in between the two.

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And it's a lot of luck, and it's

a lot of talent, and it's a lot of

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dedication, and a lot of great songs.

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I feel like they're required for that.

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Um, but that's the ideal to me,

is getting to a point where I can

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obviously make a living doing this, but

can also play the big shows and have

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people come and be really dedicated.

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And I think it also

gives you a lot of power.

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as a large artist as well when your

fan base is that dedicated to like put

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the spotlight on new artists because

if your fans are that dedicated to you

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they're also going to be dedicated to

someone that you bring on to open the

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show and that also is like a really

big power to hold in your hands i would

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imagine as like a big artist like that

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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And speaking of that, aren't you

going to open for a Harrison storm?

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Mae Krell: yes yeah yeah i'm so excited

yeah on the 24th um in new york at

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mercury lunch my favorite venue that's

my favorite like small new york venue

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Jason English (Host): so

he's, he's pretty big.

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I think he's got like a

million monthly listeners or

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something like that.

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Mae Krell: Yeah, I was like, kind

of, I think in shock because I had

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heard of him before and I think I had

like one or two of his songs saved.

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Um, but I didn't realize like how

big of a following he actually had.

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I think because he's Australian.

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So like, for him to have

the reach he has in the U.

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S.

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and be from a different country, I would

imagine the numbers have to be that big

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because he probably had to build up a fan

base in Australia first before getting

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over to like another country's reach.

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Um, but I'm very excited.

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I've heard really good things about him.

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His live show and all the videos I've seen

have looked really cool, so I'm stoked

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to open and then be able to watch it.

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Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

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So back to what the point you were making

about the, like the Zach, Brian example.

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So obviously you're, you're

going to learn a lot, right.

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Uh, once this album comes out

about the process and I'm sure

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you'll, um, make mistakes and,

and respond and react and adjust.

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But at this point, what are the two

or three things that you're like,

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okay, for me to sort of build that

slow role, you know, in the, in that

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loyalty, what are the two or three

things that you're, you're like, I

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have to do, I'm going to have to do

like this year to, uh, to do that.

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Mae Krell: Write good songs.

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That's definitely important.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Mae Krell: I think continuing to

like foster the relationships that

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I have with the fans that already

exist and being aware of how sacred

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and special that is, because I think

that that's something that people can

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lose sight of often and um, When a

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Jason English (Host): what are some,

what are, what are, sorry, what

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are some tangible examples of that?

349

:

Mae Krell: Like, there's a girl who

I met, I want to say she lives in

350

:

Chicago, who had me draw something

for her to get tattooed, and then I

351

:

got a message like two or three months

later with a picture of something that

352

:

I drew, like tattooed on her ankle.

353

:

Or, um, this last, the tour that I was on

last year, opening for Ethan Jewell, who

354

:

is like a great friend of mine and the

most wonderful musician and person ever.

355

:

His fan base is so dedicated, and

so There were some fans who came to

356

:

the shows that hadn't either known

my music before or like found out

357

:

about it from the tour announcement.

358

:

And they brought little

bracelets they handmade with like

359

:

their favorite songs on them.

360

:

Or like a lyric, as like a gift.

361

:

And you're like, you care.

362

:

Like you really care about this.

363

:

And to be then aware of that person and

um, You know, like there's certain kids

364

:

that like, they'll comment on like,

something on my Instagram and I'm like,

365

:

I know who you are, like, I know which

city you're in, I know which venue I met

366

:

you at, I remember this, I remember you

brought your dad and he was wearing this

367

:

flannel shirt, or like this other thing.

368

:

And they really appreciate that you look

at them as real people, because they are.

369

:

But I think that that's an experience

that as a fan you don't get very often.

370

:

Like I can, Kind of feel that from my

end when I'm a fan of someone as well,

371

:

like I just feel like a number in a

room so much of the time and you're

372

:

not, you know, that you're the only

reason that someone can make a living.

373

:

And so to to make sure that people

are aware that you appreciate what

374

:

they do for you Even if that's just

like posting on their instagram

375

:

story or sending it to their friend

like that makes a big difference,

376

:

too Even at a bigger artist level.

377

:

It still makes a big difference I found

artists with hundreds of thousands of

378

:

streams that I hadn't heard of before

because someone I know posted a song

379

:

and I was Like wait, this is really

really good And then became a fan of

380

:

them More like it was on someone's

playlist in the car and I like saved it.

381

:

So any sort of

382

:

Sharing music in like a real tangible

way I think has just as much if

383

:

not more value than like, you know,

the other, the stuff that people

384

:

expect is supposed to be helpful.

385

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

386

:

So write good songs, do the little

things with fans, you know, that

387

:

kind of build that camaraderie.

388

:

What, uh, what else?

389

:

Mae Krell: probably try

to reach more of them.

390

:

Um, the internet is, I

struggle with that a lot.

391

:

Um, just from a time perspective, I

think, like I, I have a full time job.

392

:

Um, I have dogs and a

life to keep up with and.

393

:

I, I have one of my roommates, uh,

who's a really good friend of mine has

394

:

been helping with the PR for the album.

395

:

So like they've written like

the press releases and sent

396

:

out some stuff to people.

397

:

Um, and one of my best friends makes

those collages that we put on Instagram,

398

:

like when we post the stories and stuff.

399

:

But in the general sense,

like I, I do all of it myself.

400

:

Like I'm laying in bed at night instead

of going to bed, sending emails to people

401

:

about opening shows that I see announced

or, and like sending these DMs or doing

402

:

these things or responding to this thing.

403

:

And.

404

:

Um, I'm constantly exhausted, and so to

find time to then film and make videos

405

:

to be able to be as consistent as you

have to be on a lot of these platforms is

406

:

really tough, but I know it's like a, a

necessary thing, so I've been trying to

407

:

be better about it and readjust my kind

of commitments to make more time for it.

408

:

I think that's definitely

something I want to be doing

409

:

more.

410

:

Jason English (Host): I think I have

an idea, but give us a sense of like

411

:

the numbers involved with those emails.

412

:

Like, are we talking like a few dozen

over the course of a month or is it

413

:

hundreds and hundreds?

414

:

Yeah.

415

:

Mae Krell: not all at once.

416

:

It's like, oh, this tour was just

announced and there was no opener

417

:

and the rooms are a size that

like, I could like, make a pretty

418

:

sufficient help with my draw.

419

:

Like if the rooms are like 200 and I know

I can draw 30 to 40 people in each city

420

:

on this show, like this tour, it's worth

shooting an email over to management

421

:

and being like, okay, if you don't

have someone confirmed, like consider.

422

:

And I've gotten a handful of like,

local opening slots through doing

423

:

that, it's surprisingly effective.

424

:

I didn't really expect that at all.

425

:

Um, but it's, it's more like, just

constantly checking like, venue

426

:

websites and like, just seeing what

comes up on your socials to see.

427

:

Cause I, as much as the internet is

a really powerful tool for reaching

428

:

people, I really have found the most

success in opening slots, I think.

429

:

That's like a very classic thing that

people like undervalue now But if the fan

430

:

base that you're playing to is dedicated

and they trust the artists that they're

431

:

coming to see enough to bring them to

someone new then they come in with a

432

:

really like open like perspective of like

maybe this person is gonna be someone

433

:

that I'm gonna really enjoy and You know

people come and they buy your merch and

434

:

they come talk to you and you then see

them starting to like your Posts and

435

:

following you on socials and there's a

really tangible growth from that If you're

436

:

the type of artist that can harness it,

because I think that there's a certain

437

:

genre and like vibe and way of performing

and stage banter that benefits you a lot

438

:

more in those situations than others.

439

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

440

:

Yeah.

441

:

Oh, that's good.

442

:

Um, so I think on another interview to

you, this was a couple of years ago.

443

:

You were, you were sort of Well, I

don't know if debating is the right

444

:

term, but you were saying listen, I'm

in New York I grew up here apart from my

445

:

little stint in Utah You know, I'm being

here my whole life and you I think you

446

:

indicated like listen I want to I want

to I want to go to Nashville, right?

447

:

So is that something that

is still top of mind?

448

:

Did you try to do that at any point

since since since then and then

449

:

sort of a follow up question is?

450

:

Uh, What's it like being an

independent artist in New York?

451

:

Is, you know, is it, um, cause

I live in Atlanta and you know,

452

:

I, I, I see what that's like.

453

:

And I'm just wondering, you know,

is, is the big city, all that it's

454

:

cracked up to be, or is it like

a lot harder than it, than it,

455

:

Mae Krell: Uh, really Doug, a couple of

years ago, God, um, Nashville, I wanted

456

:

to be from Nashville before the pandemic.

457

:

I was planning on moving down

there and then COVID hit.

458

:

And so, like, everything changed, and by

the time that things were kind of starting

459

:

to go back to normal, my life was really

vastly different than it was before.

460

:

I think the biggest thing that stopped me

from moving down to Nashville, honestly,

461

:

was I work in the service industry.

462

:

And to make enough money to be

able to exist and fund music, I'd

463

:

probably have to bartend down there.

464

:

And as a sober person, I really

don't wanna exclusively bartend.

465

:

Like I work as a server and

a bartender now I do both at

466

:

the restaurants I work at.

467

:

And I think I would hate

having to bartend exclusively.

468

:

And, um, knowing that the cost of living

is pretty high, like it was just like

469

:

a technical adult decision to like not

move down there , um, unfortunately.

470

:

Um, but I have friends down there

and I, I enjoy it when I visit.

471

:

I don't know if it necessarily would be

the right fit for me now, looking back.

472

:

Um, I write everything, I

release pretty much on my own.

473

:

There's one song on my album

that my little sister and I

474

:

wrote together, and that's it.

475

:

Um, and Nashville is super

collaborative and I think that's

476

:

wonderful, but for my own project I

don't think it would do me justice.

477

:

In like a writing way.

478

:

Um, And I just don't think it's

the right fit, and that's okay.

479

:

Um, I'm very dead set on leaving New York.

480

:

Not for necessarily anywhere

specific, just leaving.

481

:

Um, and I, I think it's the music

scene, the way that everything is

482

:

in New York, and I'd like to imagine

other big cities, but I don't know,

483

:

because I only know what it's like here.

484

:

Everything changes so often.

485

:

You know, like, I walked by the block that

I grew up on today, and, like, half the

486

:

businesses that I remember being there

a couple years ago aren't there anymore.

487

:

And, like, even the really famous one

across the street that was, like, a

488

:

big, like, thing, like, closed down

while I was living there as a kid.

489

:

And neighborhoods change, and I

think the music scene is affected

490

:

by that, just like everything else.

491

:

Um I think that the music scene in New

York really thrives in kind of a weird way

492

:

in like the high school and college scene.

493

:

When I was in high school I used

to go to all these great shows in

494

:

people's like yards and um, like

places farther into Brooklyn and in

495

:

Rockaway Beach and it was so much fun.

496

:

And I didn't play music at the time.

497

:

I wish I had.

498

:

I think I would have

had a really great time.

499

:

But I loved going to these shows and I

had such an amazing experience doing that.

500

:

And then I can't speak to college, I

didn't go to school, but I know that

501

:

a lot of kids who go to like a lot of

the like NYU and kind of like music

502

:

programs say that they really enjoy that.

503

:

Um, I think that it's, it's not

a very friendly music scene.

504

:

And I, there's a lot of things

you could blame that on.

505

:

I feel like I end up kind of settling on.

506

:

The thought that people think of New

York as this very individualized place

507

:

and this individualized culture of

like, I come here to like, hustle and

508

:

get what I want and grow and whatever.

509

:

And I think that that's a very

like, outsider perspective to have.

510

:

Like, as someone who grew up here,

that's never been my experience

511

:

of New York, until I started

hanging around transplants.

512

:

Um, and I think that that really seeps its

way into everything, music scene included.

513

:

And it's really tough to meet people

that are just kind and want to make

514

:

music and want to be around you

because they like what you're doing

515

:

and not because of numbers or aren't

looking for all this underlying stuff.

516

:

And then, I mean, the, my closest

collaborator, my producer, Jake, Jacob

517

:

Leventhal, is also from New York.

518

:

Just like I, we didn't meet

like as kids or anything.

519

:

Like, I'm sure we've crossed paths because

the world here is so small, but he also

520

:

grew up here and a lot of his friends

that are musicians also grew up here.

521

:

And it's a lot of these like people who

are still trying to foster community in

522

:

a way that's really special, but in a

place where it seems to be very difficult.

523

:

Um, I really struggle with it.

524

:

I'm constantly looking to meet

more musicians and I find that I

525

:

have more musician friends spread

around the U S and I do here.

526

:

Even though I meet more people

here than I do other places.

527

:

Jason English (Host): Well in

terms of like wanting to be the

528

:

musician and the artist that you

want to be, do you think you're.

529

:

Do you think it's advantageous to you

that you're not part of Nashville or

530

:

Austin, you know, or, or whatever, and

that you're, you are in New York, or do

531

:

you think there's, you've got more work

to do to, to sort of get, get out there

532

:

and, and, and meet the right people.

533

:

Mae Krell: I think that it's, for me,

and maybe this'll change, or maybe this

534

:

is an incorrect perspective, but what I

feel like I'm missing the most is time.

535

:

And that time can be bought by a lower

cost of living, or by, I don't know,

536

:

someone who wants to give me money.

537

:

Like, but more realistically, by having

more time to like, put into learning

538

:

how to play my instrument better

and picking up, like, my girlfriend

539

:

got me a banjo for my birthday.

540

:

I really want to, like, start properly

playing it and I really want to play

541

:

mandolin and kind of spend time really

focusing in on a lot of these things

542

:

that I'd really like to do that I think

will make me a better musician and

543

:

a better writer and a better artist.

544

:

And the issue that I run into is

just I have to work a certain amount

545

:

of hours to afford to live, and

I have to work a certain amount

546

:

of additional hours to afford to

be able to record and make music.

547

:

On top of it and doing all of that

doesn't leave that much time to be

548

:

a musician Unfortunately, and it's a

constant struggle that I go through.

549

:

Um, a constant crisis that I

have I don't really think that

550

:

Being somewhere else will help.

551

:

I think it might hurt it

just in a technical way.

552

:

Like my experiences in restaurants,

New York restaurants have a really

553

:

high ceiling of where you can go.

554

:

And I've been in the industry

for a handful of years now.

555

:

And I just keep kind of

like inching my way up.

556

:

And as I do that, I buy

myself a little bit more time.

557

:

Like where I worked right before

COVID, I had to make the amount

558

:

I would have needed to live.

559

:

I would have had less time than I do now.

560

:

Um, and so it's, I feel like

if anything, I would feel.

561

:

More isolated somewhere where there

was more to do because I'd feel like

562

:

I'd be able to do even less of it You

know, like there's so much there's

563

:

so many shows going on in Nashville

and so many places to go and so many

564

:

people to meet And that's so cool I

feel like I enjoy it more when I visit

565

:

because I can visit and put my head a

hundred percent in that mindset Because

566

:

when I'm a visitor That's what I am.

567

:

I'm not working as a server.

568

:

I'm not making a living.

569

:

I'm on there As a visitor

for like a week or two.

570

:

So I can spend that time like

really involved in the local scene.

571

:

Whereas I think if I lived there

and I had to keep up with all these

572

:

other pieces, I probably would end

up doing less than I would like to.

573

:

And that would maybe end up

more isolating, but that's all

574

:

from an outside perspective.

575

:

I don't, I don't know

what it would actually be

576

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

577

:

Yeah.

578

:

Well, if it wasn't New York, where would

you, where would you want to be right now?

579

:

Mae Krell: Honestly, I want to be in some

sort of vehicle in the middle of nowhere.

580

:

Jason English (Host): Oh, wow.

581

:

There you go.

582

:

Mae Krell: I own an RV or like a,

or like a school bus or something.

583

:

I lived in, um, a rooftop tent with

Apollo for three and a half months on

584

:

top of my car and had the most amazing

time ever and that's when I started

585

:

writing the album, um, originally.

586

:

I need, I feel, I don't

own a lot of things.

587

:

I need very little, like, to, to be happy.

588

:

Um, I definitely, I feel like I own

more guitars than I own anything else.

589

:

But, um, That's my like, ideal scenario.

590

:

Yeah, and now Vanjo here

and hopefully Mendelyn

591

:

soon.

592

:

Yeah, I like the idea of being, being

able to have some sort of home base

593

:

that can travel where I can move around

and I can see places or be places in

594

:

kind of like a slow travel way where

I can integrate into a local scene and

595

:

spend time somewhere but not have to

like so heavily commit to being there

596

:

that if I end up unhappy I can't leave.

597

:

I have a lot of like

commitment issues in that way.

598

:

I think, um, not really.

599

:

I didn't go to school, so I

didn't leave New York for college.

600

:

I've never really had like a

temporary like leave from where

601

:

I'm from, like, By my own choice.

602

:

And I think that that's created a lot

of fear of like committing to somewhere

603

:

new and then being unhappy and then

having to figure out a way to leave.

604

:

Um, and so instead I'm like, well,

how can I cross in the middle and go

605

:

places without being trapped to them?

606

:

And there's so many like seasonal

jobs and things that you can do.

607

:

So that's, that's kind of my, my

short term, short term, longterm plan.

608

:

Ideally by next, next year

I can get out of here.

609

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

610

:

Well, cool.

611

:

Well, um, so here's, here's the

great thing about music, right?

612

:

Uh, I'm almost 50.

613

:

I'm a male, almost 50 lives in the South.

614

:

And, uh, I feel connected to you who

is, you know, probably in her twenties,

615

:

I would imagine still, is that fair?

616

:

Mae Krell: Yeah, I'm 25

617

:

Jason English (Host): Female in her

twenties that, uh, lives in New York.

618

:

I'm a Christian.

619

:

I think you're Jewish.

620

:

Right?

621

:

So, so the opposites, uh, there's

a lot of opposites going on, right?

622

:

Um, but the music I feel

connected to you, right?

623

:

And I think that's the, that's

the brilliance of music in

624

:

general, but like, especially the

music that I've heard from you.

625

:

Um, so that's awesome.

626

:

And, uh, and I think the, the

songs that I've, that I've heard,

627

:

uh, off the new album are great.

628

:

And so that's, that's what I

want to jump into now, I guess.

629

:

Uh, the new album is called, I think.

630

:

Parentheses.

631

:

I might be grown.

632

:

So there's a little bit

of hesitation there.

633

:

Is that

634

:

Mae Krell: Yes, 100%.

635

:

For sure.

636

:

Jason English (Host): What's the,

uh, what's the genesis of that

637

:

Mae Krell: Um,

638

:

Jason English (Host):

like, like that title?

639

:

Mae Krell: yeah.

640

:

So the title is the closing lyric

of the album from the song Grown.

641

:

I like the idea of titling the record

something that wasn't necessarily a

642

:

track name, but kind of referenced one.

643

:

That was more of like a situation.

644

:

And after kind of going through

and getting a handful of options,

645

:

I landed in that direction.

646

:

Um, one grown is one of my, if not my

favorite song on the album, but I think

647

:

that a lot of, a lot of this, this album,

and really the overall concept of it is

648

:

this idea of growing up when you didn't

plan to, or you didn't think you would.

649

:

Um, And you just weren't really prepared

for any of it and how that feels

650

:

because the experiences of growing

up in that kind of like coming of age

651

:

are similar but different for everyone

but the ages at which you experience

652

:

them can be vastly different and that

can be for a lot of different reasons.

653

:

And I know that like, at 25, I'm

not grown up, I know I would like

654

:

to hope that I'm gonna keep growing

and changing and that this isn't

655

:

necessarily where I'm gonna land

forever, um, I'd like to believe that.

656

:

But there's also that piece of

like, well I'm not a kid anymore,

657

:

and I am settled into some sort of

adulthood, and that's something that

658

:

I never really thought I would have.

659

:

It's like that, that piece of like, living

longer than you ever thought you would.

660

:

And then somehow having more time

makes you feel like you don't

661

:

have enough because suddenly your

life is big and you want more time

662

:

than you ever thought you had.

663

:

Um, and it's this constant like

back and forth, um, feeling, but

664

:

having the album title land on,

like, I don't think I'm grown.

665

:

I don't think that naming the album

grown would have done it justice.

666

:

I don't think that the album is a

solid and, you know, And full thought

667

:

through, like, thought in that way.

668

:

I think that having it hesitate a little

bit is what makes it feel right, and

669

:

what makes it feel like it fits, kind of.

670

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

671

:

No, that's cool.

672

:

I'm 50.

673

:

I don't think I'm grown

674

:

Mae Krell: There you go.

675

:

Jason English (Host): what it's worth.

676

:

So

677

:

Mae Krell: My mom says that all the time.

678

:

She's like, I'm 62 and I'm still

growing, I'm still changing all the time.

679

:

And I'm like, yeah mom, yeah you

680

:

are.

681

:

Jason English (Host): to.

682

:

follow you on Instagram, you're, you've

started to not only sprinkle some of the

683

:

singles out into the, into the universe,

but you're releasing these little excerpts

684

:

and little, I don't know what they're

called, but like little commentary, if

685

:

that's fair on, on some of the songs.

686

:

And so I want to read, uh, you did

this about a week or so ago, uh,

687

:

you, you titled it, um, to begin.

688

:

Uh, and it's, it's sort of like

this notion of, you know, beginning

689

:

stages of a healthy, healthy process.

690

:

Uh, you talk about like a messy start

and then, and then you say that the

691

:

sentiments of having to forgive your

younger self for actions that ended up

692

:

hurting you deep, hurting you deeply

as you grew up always seem difficult

693

:

for me and it still is, right?

694

:

So talk to us about that.

695

:

Mae Krell: Yeah, uh, to begin

is, is track two off the album.

696

:

So what I've been doing is as I've

been putting out the singles, I

697

:

did these little like collages

that Caro and my friend made with

698

:

like the storyline of the songs.

699

:

And then now that we had like a

certain amount of time left between

700

:

the last single we put out in the

album, we've been putting out these

701

:

little explanations of the songs.

702

:

The remaining songs that aren't singles

to kind of give an opportunity to

703

:

have like the narrative of those.

704

:

So like I, I have one on my desktop that I

need to write and post, um, for tomorrow.

705

:

And to begin as I wrote it

in like February of:

706

:

So it was kind of like in the

middle process of writing the album.

707

:

And it kind of became like.

708

:

The opening.

709

:

So there's the intro track, which is

Garden 2, and then to begin kind of

710

:

is the opening of the album and like

you mentioned like it's meant to be

711

:

the kind of like uncomfortable messy

start of both the project and the

712

:

storyline that we're kind of coming into.

713

:

Um, I made a lot of

mistakes when I was younger.

714

:

I think It's a product of struggling

really deeply, having a little bit too

715

:

much access to freedom, living in a big

city where there just, there's everything

716

:

around you all the time, and also just

717

:

not really thinking that I

would ever have to live with or

718

:

experience the consequences that

would come from my own actions.

719

:

Like, I just didn't really think I

would stick around very long, and so I,

720

:

I just never thought that I would have

to internally deal with any of what.

721

:

I was putting myself through, um, and

so to begin to me feels like kind of a,

722

:

a way of acknowledging other people did

things to hurt me, but I put myself in the

723

:

situations for those things to be done.

724

:

And now I'm distance from that and

I'm no longer doing those things,

725

:

but I still have all of these fears

and anxieties and leftover pain

726

:

from stuff that I put myself in.

727

:

And how do you, How do you

forgive yourself and move on?

728

:

and if you can't Can you at least

ask yourself to start doing it?

729

:

And so that's kind of what to

begin as it's saying like the

730

:

lyric and there's a lyric in it

if asking to belong is too much.

731

:

Can I at least ask to begin?

732

:

That's kind of what the lyric that the

song name comes from is so it's just

733

:

saying like I don't know if I can promise

That I'm gonna be okay with all this stuff

734

:

But I can promise that I'm gonna try to

be and like that's gonna have to be enough

735

:

Jason English (Host):

Well, that's amazing.

736

:

Yeah, that's really good.

737

:

Um, what other tracks I imagine I, I know

I, I was the one that brought, brought

738

:

that up, but what other songs kind of

stick out to you, um, in terms of the,

739

:

obviously I'm sure it's the whole album

for you, but, uh, what are the, what are

740

:

the one or two other tracks that sort

of represent you the best, do you think?

741

:

Um, and, and where you're at and, and what

you want to accomplish with this album?

742

:

Mae Krell: Yeah, um, from, I guess,

including all of them, like, not only

743

:

the singles or non singles, um, Apollo's

Song and Grown, track 10, track 11, uh,

744

:

both of which were singles, kind of feel

like the, the wrap up of the project is

745

:

like, here's what we just went through,

here's what we're feeling, here it is

746

:

wrapped into like a clean storyline.

747

:

Um, They're both really,

really special to me.

748

:

It was also the first and last song

that were written for the album.

749

:

So I wrote Apollo's song

first and I wrote Grown last.

750

:

Um,

751

:

Yeah.

752

:

and sorry, the puppy is

requesting to be brought back in.

753

:

So you can

754

:

Is that Apollo or

755

:

cut that out.

756

:

No, it's the puppy.

757

:

Um, but, yeah, I wrote

Come on, here you go.

758

:

Go over there.

759

:

Um, Apollo's still asleep.

760

:

Um Yeah, Apollo's song is kind of this

761

:

projection onto my dog of seeing her age

and in turn realizing that I am also aging

762

:

and that I will likely continue to age as

my dog gets so old that she passes away.

763

:

And when I got her, like, I

didn't think that I would.

764

:

would live longer than she did.

765

:

I, I just didn't really plan to.

766

:

And so that's, that song is kind of like

following that type of idea and, and how

767

:

things change and like my best friend is

getting married soon and, and your life

768

:

is just suddenly this whole big thing

that you just never really imagined would

769

:

be real and that's really, really cool.

770

:

And it's also terrifying and it's

also beautiful and everything, you

771

:

know, can reach that point, but

you have to stick around for it.

772

:

And that's the hard part.

773

:

Like, it's gonna get there, but

sticking around through everything

774

:

else to get to that point is really

difficult, and like, acknowledging that.

775

:

Um, and grown is kind of sitting in

with a lot of fear and anxiety and the

776

:

feelings that I have about adulthood and

myself and aging and like the crisis I

777

:

have every year when I have a birthday.

778

:

Um, and I that that's the one

that I feel like is most Like I'm

779

:

most connected to like in this

exact moment But it definitely

780

:

can change like as time goes on.

781

:

Too hard is also really really special

to me That's the one my little sister

782

:

helped me write or helped me finish it

783

:

off um And that one started as like a

complete stream of consciousness Like

784

:

i'm not writing music and I need to

force myself to write something i'm

785

:

gonna play You really simple chords and

just like spit out what I'm feeling.

786

:

And then it got, it developed from

that into something bigger and um,

787

:

into like a really, I, I think probably

the most personal song on the whole

788

:

project, which says a lot considering

the whole thing is really personal.

789

:

Um, but just about this fear of like

being loved and in turn a fear of being

790

:

known both by herself and by other people.

791

:

I think those are kind of the ones that

I'm most Attached to in this moment.

792

:

Jason English (Host): Okay.

793

:

So you've alluded to it a few times,

and I don't want to assume anything,

794

:

and I'm trying to make the connection

with what you said about you didn't

795

:

think you'd outlive Apollo, and then,

you know, possibly, I don't know if

796

:

your time in Utah, but like, did you,

did you struggle with sort of, you

797

:

know, Suicide or do you think that,

you know, drugs were going to kill you?

798

:

Like what, what was, what was the,

799

:

Mae Krell: Just like

all, all of the above.

800

:

It was going to be anything in my

head that, just anything at all.

801

:

I just didn't, I think there was

just so many points in my, my life

802

:

when I was younger that I was so

unhappy and I didn't really know why.

803

:

Like I couldn't pinpoint it.

804

:

Like nothing at times,

nothing was really wrong.

805

:

I just felt a certain way.

806

:

Before you have, like, the privilege

to get into an office with a doctor

807

:

who's kind and understanding and normal,

because unfortunately that's not super

808

:

common in my experience, and to have

someone, like, understand and listen

809

:

and help figure out what's going on,

you just feel like some sort of alien.

810

:

You know, like, when you're the only

person in your immediate surrounding

811

:

that's struggling with this, It's

whatever that is, whether it's

812

:

like addiction or like suicidal

ideation or depression or anxiety

813

:

or anything else, like mood swings.

814

:

If nobody else around you is,

is experiencing that to the same

815

:

degree and nobody is treating

it as anything other than acting

816

:

out, you just kind of feel insane.

817

:

And I think that that contributes

a lot to making these like negative

818

:

decisions to try to like fix it.

819

:

But, you know, like I, I'm like very

like thankful and, um, excited to

820

:

live and be sober now, but for a

long time, like when I was younger,

821

:

drugs were what kept me alive.

822

:

You know, I don't think I would have stuck

around if I didn't have something to make

823

:

me feel okay, even though it then got to

a point where it almost killed me later.

824

:

And so the followup was, I'm lucky that

I was able to get away from that and

825

:

now live a full life without substances.

826

:

But there's always, there's that double

edge to everything where sometimes the

827

:

things that are really bad for you, keep

you going long enough to find what you.

828

:

Needed that is gonna be good for you or to

find the help that you needed to be okay

829

:

Jason English (Host): Right.

830

:

Did your, did your challenges

happen mostly before the

831

:

pandemic

832

:

Mae Krell: Yeah, I was

833

:

Jason English (Host): was there overlap?

834

:

Mae Krell: Mean like here and there I

feel like the primary like my primary

835

:

issues like that before they were When

I felt really hopeless like the point

836

:

that I was struggling so much that

there was absolutely no hope on the

837

:

horizon at all was like in my teenage

years into like Being like, maybe 20.

838

:

I got sober for the first time when

I was like, two months shy of 19.

839

:

Um, and it's been like, in and out.

840

:

And now I feel like I'm in a really

like, solid point of like, almost

841

:

three years of sobriety, um, again.

842

:

Which is wonderful.

843

:

But it was definitely like, primarily

when I was younger, I think once I kind

844

:

of was into a solid point of sobriety.

845

:

The first time around, I had regained

a sort of like hope for living.

846

:

Like my life was getting bigger and I

was like making friends and being around

847

:

people who like wanted to be around

me and my family was excited to be

848

:

around me and my dog wanted to see me.

849

:

And, um, I was able to develop

like genuine friendships with depth

850

:

because I was a full person who was

in front of someone and not some

851

:

sort of like shell of something.

852

:

And.

853

:

having like a relapse doesn't necessarily

take that away or change it rather than

854

:

when you're constantly in that space

and have never been outside of it.

855

:

So I feel like the,

like, I still struggle.

856

:

It's not like any of this stuff is

like a, you know, you, you get better

857

:

and it switches off, but it's a very

different type of struggle because

858

:

there's an awareness that all of it

is can be for something, you know,

859

:

like I've had, I can think of a couple

distinct moments that I've had where,

860

:

um, mostly music related, that I'm

just kind of like, oh, like all this

861

:

hard stuff, like is, is worth something

because it might benefit someone else.

862

:

Um, and, and having

863

:

that

864

:

awareness is what makes the struggle

feel very different to me rather than

865

:

just kind of endless and hopeless.

866

:

Being able

867

:

Jason English (Host): So I think,

uh, I think you had said at one

868

:

point that you wrote your first

song, I think when you were 16, even

869

:

before you knew how to play guitar.

870

:

Um, how did that process of, you know,

kind of leaving your interests as a

871

:

hobby and as a job with the, with the,

you know, you used to be a concert,

872

:

you know, photographer and all that.

873

:

And then you, you kind of tilted

towards the, to the music.

874

:

It seems like, you know, the struggles

that you just just that you just

875

:

articulated, how much did music play a

role in, um, either distracting you from

876

:

from some of that hardship and struggle?

877

:

Uh, did it play any role?

878

:

I guess I don't want to make an

assumption that it was like the savior

879

:

or anything, but like, how do you

think you would have been the artist

880

:

and musician that you are today?

881

:

Kind of without that struggle.

882

:

And then did it, did it help

you kind of get out of that?

883

:

And it becomes

884

:

over.

885

:

Mae Krell: Yeah, I think that I don't

think I would be the same musician that

886

:

I am today without the stuff that I've

gone through because so much of what I

887

:

write about is in that spirit of like kind

of trying to reach people and especially

888

:

for me like teenagers like people love

to joke about like the fan your fan base

889

:

being like younger or Whatever, but I

really like cherish the fact that the

890

:

fan base that I have are like younger

You Like, you know, at some points,

891

:

like, kids and teenagers, a lot of times,

like, queer kids from, like, states where

892

:

maybe they can't really be comfortable

or out the same way that they would be

893

:

somewhere else, and they see someone

that is grown up compared to them and

894

:

living a life that's, like, authentic

and, like, They're just so excited about

895

:

that because to them they see hope in it

and like that's so special and so cool

896

:

Um, and not something that I ever thought

about before I started making music.

897

:

I don't think I like conceptualized

that at all um as like a reality that

898

:

could exist um And I think that I'd

probably make very different music if

899

:

I hadn't experienced what I did But I

also would be a vastly different person

900

:

um And that's a weird thing to think

about because You know, you want to be

901

:

like, I'm not my experiences and I'm

not like the things I've struggled with.

902

:

And I think it's, they don't, those things

don't necessarily define you, but they do

903

:

put you in a place to then use them for

good if you want to, if you're able to.

904

:

Um, you know, it would have helped

me as like a 16, 15, 14 year old to

905

:

see someone that felt tangible to me

that was like living authentically.

906

:

And.

907

:

is healthy and has been through

something that I maybe either struggle

908

:

with or something similar to and isn't

pretending like they're healed or

909

:

fixed from it, but just is Showing some

sort of hope that it can get better.

910

:

You know, like I needed that when I was

a kid um and so I think the hope in In

911

:

putting yourself through the hard parts

of sharing that is that you're gonna be

912

:

that for someone else who really needs it

913

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

914

:

Well, I talked to another musician

a couple months ago, and she, I was

915

:

asking her about, you know, because

she came from a band in Europe.

916

:

It was like the ACDC

917

:

of women rock in Europe is this crazy,

crazy band called Thunder Mother.

918

:

Of all things.

919

:

Uh, but now she's in Nashville.

920

:

She's Irish and she's in Nashville.

921

:

And I was asking her about like the

difference between playing like big,

922

:

you know, big shows in Europe versus

like the coffee shops, you know, or

923

:

hotel lobbies in and around Nashville.

924

:

And she's like, you know what?

925

:

Like, like to the point earlier,

it doesn't really matter.

926

:

But she's like, if I could just

reach one person, to talk about like

927

:

the, cause she was very passionate

about mental health, you know, and

928

:

like, uh, self care and all that.

929

:

And she's like, you know, it's, it's

always worth it to just hear from

930

:

one fan or talk to somebody after a

show that said, you know, that song

931

:

or your message or whatever that is,

you know, really, really touched me.

932

:

And she's like, that's, that's

kind of what I'm doing it now.

933

:

So like, you know, credit to you,

like, you know, good things will happen

934

:

based on the songs that you write,

you know, and the music that you make.

935

:

Um, But I hope that you can

reach as many people as you can.

936

:

Cause like, to your point, those examples,

people need authenticity, you know?

937

:

Mae Krell: Yeah.

938

:

People are looking for hope in

everything, I think, especially

939

:

like now, you know, the world is

very bleak sometimes, or it can be,

940

:

and there's so many cool things, you

know, like so many beautiful moments

941

:

that you can experience, but you have

to be not so blocked out to them,

942

:

and I think that a lot of times when

you are like really struggling with

943

:

any sort of mental health issues or.

944

:

Maybe something with your family,

or maybe you're going through

945

:

something really difficult.

946

:

There's kind of like a block that like

exists, like a line that you just, you see

947

:

everything like tinted in a different way.

948

:

And sometimes you just need

someone to help get you out of it.

949

:

I've needed it.

950

:

I've found it in music.

951

:

I still do so much of the time.

952

:

I'm such a like fan, you know, like

as, like of other musicians and um, You

953

:

know, like, we'll drive, like, hours to

a show because, you know, it's a solo

954

:

tour from a, like, an artist from a

band that I love, and it's like an 80

955

:

capacity room for someone who I've seen

play to 2, 000 people, and I'll drive,

956

:

like, two, three hours, you know, like,

I, I still am like that, um, just to

957

:

care so deeply about, about music that

makes you feel something, and I think

958

:

that that's, that's so special, and I

just hope to do that for someone else.

959

:

Jason English (Host): No, that's great.

960

:

All right.

961

:

So last question.

962

:

Uh, and I really appreciate your time.

963

:

Um, so that, you know, this, this, this

podcast is based on, you know, a show

964

:

that I, love that you need to watch called

965

:

Mae Krell: I I will watch it.

966

:

Jason English (Host): But, you

know, curiosity is a big part of it.

967

:

So, uh, it seems like you've experienced a

lot of things in your, in your young life.

968

:

Uh, but you, you've also, uh,

I don't know if you've seen

969

:

the world, uh, other than Utah,

970

:

just kidding.

971

:

Um, and you know, some

972

:

Mae Krell: a handful, yeah.

973

:

Jason English (Host): some spots here

and there, but what, what are you most

974

:

curious about at this stage in your life?

975

:

Mae Krell: That's a really good question.

976

:

I think other people and stories and, and

learning more about people's relationships

977

:

to the things that they care about, um,

the things that they don't care about.

978

:

Just what, what gets people going and

what keeps them running is something

979

:

that I'm always, um, Just learning more

about and wanting to learn more about.

980

:

And then I am big, big into

travel and seeing places.

981

:

I want to, um, check off my

last couple states in the U.

982

:

S.

983

:

And then I think I have four or five left.

984

:

And then I want to start

seeing other places as well.

985

:

So I'm just always curious about

people and their perspectives

986

:

and their experiences.

987

:

Jason English (Host): All right.

988

:

Well, have you been to Georgia?

989

:

You should come down to Georgia.

990

:

Mae Krell: I've been, very briefly,

I've been through Atlanta very, very

991

:

briefly, but I, Georgia is one of the

states that I feel like I've spent,

992

:

like, a very minimal amount of time in.

993

:

Like, I've been there, and I can be

like, I've been to Georgia, but I

994

:

wanna, like, actually make it down

to Georgia, like, properly, you know?

995

:

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

996

:

No, the venue that you need to

hit up is, uh, is, Eddie's Attic

997

:

Mae Krell: I've heard such good, it's

in, it's in Decatur, how do you pronounce

998

:

Jason English (Host): Decatur.

999

:

Mae Krell: I've heard really

good things about that venue.

:

00:54:38,729 --> 00:54:39,949

Jason English (Host): I could

totally see you play that.

:

00:54:40,619 --> 00:54:42,239

It's, it's, it's one

of the best ones here.

:

00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,879

So, so speaking of playing,

uh, could you play a

:

00:54:45,949 --> 00:54:46,549

song or two?

:

00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:47,919

Mae Krell: Yeah, of course.

:

00:54:48,329 --> 00:54:48,899

I'd love to.

:

00:54:50,229 --> 00:54:50,509

Cool.

:

00:54:50,869 --> 00:54:51,749

Yeah, I can

:

00:54:53,799 --> 00:54:56,969

play, let me play, I'll play Grown, and

then I can play Apollo's Song, if that is

:

00:54:57,129 --> 00:54:57,489

Jason English (Host): Okay.

:

00:55:06,349 --> 00:55:11,314

Mae Krell: There's nothing I want

more than to be someone else.

:

00:55:13,574 --> 00:55:14,754

My recurring wish.

:

00:55:15,024 --> 00:55:17,674

Sean Birthday candles.

:

00:55:21,324 --> 00:55:33,124

And the grass might not be greener, But

I'm sure it's easier to take care of.

:

00:55:37,209 --> 00:55:43,329

There is nothing I fear more

than growing into my skin.

:

00:55:44,849 --> 00:55:49,804

What if this is the best it gets?

:

00:55:52,304 --> 00:56:02,734

And the flowers, they might not be taller,

but I'm sure they needed less to grow.

:

00:56:07,944 --> 00:56:15,294

I'm still scared of the

dark, terrified of growing.

:

00:56:20,689 --> 00:56:23,734

But I think I might be grown.

:

00:56:27,169 --> 00:56:29,014

I'm still scared,

:

00:56:32,194 --> 00:56:32,854

terrified.

:

00:56:34,894 --> 00:56:42,654

I think I might be wrong

:

00:56:45,724 --> 00:56:51,964

There's nothing I fear more

than learning I've found myself

:

00:56:53,684 --> 00:56:56,374

And that this is all there is

:

00:57:00,879 --> 00:57:09,909

My whole eternity searched for

meaning, I'm sure there must

:

00:57:09,939 --> 00:57:14,736

be something more than this.

:

00:57:14,736 --> 00:57:20,719

What if there's more than this?

:

00:57:24,839 --> 00:57:28,859

I'm still scared of the.

:

00:57:37,234 --> 00:57:40,374

But I think I might be grown.

:

00:57:43,969 --> 00:57:45,619

I'm still scared,

:

00:57:48,859 --> 00:57:49,459

terrified

:

00:57:52,274 --> 00:57:52,494

to,

:

00:57:56,454 --> 00:57:57,934

I think I might be.

:

00:58:00,294 --> 00:58:02,054

I think I might be.

:

00:58:07,844 --> 00:58:08,444

Jason English (Host): Thank you.

:

00:58:10,489 --> 00:58:13,019

Mae Krell: Actually, I bought this guitar.

:

00:58:14,034 --> 00:58:15,174

because of this song.

:

00:58:15,564 --> 00:58:18,734

I was, I was out in LA

and I wrote this song.

:

00:58:18,774 --> 00:58:22,084

I, well, I'd gone to like this

guitar shop, um, where this guy

:

00:58:22,084 --> 00:58:24,044

like modifies like vintage guitars.

:

00:58:24,434 --> 00:58:26,494

And I played this guitar and

I was like obsessed with it.

:

00:58:26,494 --> 00:58:28,034

I was like, I cannot

buy a guitar right now.

:

00:58:28,034 --> 00:58:30,364

I'm about to drive like

45 hours home to New York.

:

00:58:30,364 --> 00:58:31,054

Like I can't do that.

:

00:58:31,054 --> 00:58:31,814

I have no space in my car.

:

00:58:31,814 --> 00:58:33,004

I've been living in it for three months.

:

00:58:33,534 --> 00:58:37,814

And I went back to where I was staying and

ended up writing a Paula song that night.

:

00:58:38,304 --> 00:58:40,454

And it was something named

something different at the time.

:

00:58:40,564 --> 00:58:42,274

Um, and.

:

00:58:42,609 --> 00:58:46,449

In my head it like was played on this

guitar like the way I remembered it

:

00:58:46,449 --> 00:58:49,329

sounding and like I was playing it on

the Guitar that I had and I was like this

:

00:58:49,329 --> 00:58:52,349

just doesn't sound right Like it doesn't

sound like that And I knew that when I

:

00:58:52,349 --> 00:58:55,669

wanted to record it eventually that it

would have to be on this guitar And I

:

00:58:55,669 --> 00:58:59,289

was like, well, I just I don't guess I

just have to go buy it So I told myself

:

00:58:59,319 --> 00:59:04,184

that if the guitar store was gonna be was

open Before I left LA the next morning,

:

00:59:04,184 --> 00:59:08,024

so I was about to drive the 48 hours

back to New York, that I would go buy it.

:

00:59:08,084 --> 00:59:10,984

And then I checked their hours,

and for some reason on Fridays,

:

00:59:10,984 --> 00:59:12,854

they opened at 9 and not at noon.

:

00:59:12,884 --> 00:59:14,994

And I was like, I just gotta get it.

:

00:59:15,034 --> 00:59:15,594

I just gotta do it.

:

00:59:15,594 --> 00:59:18,644

So I just went and then I bought

this 100 year old guitar, um,

:

00:59:18,654 --> 00:59:20,624

specifically because of Apollo's song.

:

00:59:21,084 --> 00:59:23,854

So it's extra, extra

special for that reason.

:

00:59:24,704 --> 00:59:25,054

Jason English (Host): That's awesome.

:

00:59:42,329 --> 00:59:49,999

Mae Krell: Dogman to all of me is

starting to get old My best friend's

:

00:59:49,999 --> 00:59:58,479

name will change soon, floral blueprints

On the floor, and I've thought a lot of

:

00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:05,729

leaving the only city I've ever known.

:

01:00:12,269 --> 01:00:12,459

They

:

01:00:14,539 --> 01:00:22,744

clipped it's wings, but

somehow time's gone.

:

01:00:22,744 --> 01:00:38,994

And I never saw myself walking down an

aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd look like

:

01:00:39,954 --> 01:00:50,589

past twenty five Dreams were a luxury that

I couldn't afford Couldn't afford, and now

:

01:00:53,059 --> 01:01:03,819

I'm living a future I never thought

I'd have The dog meant to outlive me

:

01:01:03,819 --> 01:01:13,184

is Showing her white hair My little

brother's off to college, someone had

:

01:01:13,194 --> 01:01:27,129

to please my parents, and I'm starting

to worry that I'll never adapt to this.

:

01:01:27,129 --> 01:01:35,599

Thought I clipped it.

:

01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:55,400

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd

:

01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:09,704

look like Past 25 dreams were a

luxury that I couldn't afford and now

:

01:02:12,854 --> 01:02:21,944

I'm living a future I never

thought I'd have What do you

:

01:02:21,994 --> 01:02:26,024

do with a life you didn't plan

:

01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:33,129

Sucker punch straight

into your wildest dreams.

:

01:02:33,129 --> 01:02:40,799

And worries to good things

don't come unpunished.

:

01:02:43,009 --> 01:02:46,979

Think I might finally

stop praying for relief.

:

01:02:49,804 --> 01:03:00,134

And I never saw myself walking down

an aisle But I'm starting to look

:

01:03:00,454 --> 01:03:11,364

pretty damn close to twenty five Dreams

were a luxury that I couldn't afford

:

01:03:25,729 --> 01:03:26,399

Jason English (Host): So beautiful.

:

01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:27,038

Thank you, Mae

:

01:03:27,159 --> 01:03:28,529

Mae Krell: you, thank you, for

:

01:03:28,579 --> 01:03:29,669

Jason English (Host): That guitar sounds,

:

01:03:29,749 --> 01:03:31,119

the guitar is perfect.

:

01:03:31,179 --> 01:03:32,319

Mae Krell: It's cool, right?

:

01:03:32,869 --> 01:03:36,019

It's it's it has a rubber bridge

on it, that's why it sounds weird.

:

01:03:37,189 --> 01:03:38,669

like plucky and weird.

:

01:03:38,909 --> 01:03:39,959

I'm so obsessed with it.

:

01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:42,439

I feel like it writes, like

it writes songs itself.

:

01:03:42,499 --> 01:03:44,659

Like anything you play on this

guitar just sounds better.

:

01:03:45,629 --> 01:03:46,049

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

:

01:03:47,949 --> 01:03:50,509

Uh, well, I really appreciate

your time and, you know, have a

:

01:03:50,509 --> 01:03:55,538

great April, big April for you

and, uh, best to you in:

:

01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:56,169

Mae Krell: Thank you.

:

01:03:56,199 --> 01:03:56,829

Thank you for your time.

:

01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:57,579

I really appreciate it.

:

01:04:05,169 --> 01:04:06,729

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

:

01:04:06,729 --> 01:04:08,519

episode of Curious Goldfish.

:

01:04:08,959 --> 01:04:12,239

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

:

01:04:12,819 --> 01:04:15,439

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

:

01:04:16,189 --> 01:04:18,288

Until next time, stay curious.

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