Vic and Lucy Rocca, Soberistas Founder - Sober, Alcohol Free Stories and removing the cloak of shame

Speaker: 00:00:02

Hi, everybody.

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I'm Victoria and I don't drink

today is very special to me as I.

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I get to speak to DC.

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Lucy's last night of drinking

and waking up in hospital.

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It'll was the end of the

road for her drinking days.

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She shares how she not only.

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Only decided it was time to give up

drinking, but also birth the idea.

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Of an online community and a

safe space where you can speak

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about how you really feel.

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And connect with others who

are also living alcohol three.

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Lucy has not only written five books,

but also is the founder of Sabre.

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Easter's and me and many others.

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Oh, our success in sobriety.

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To that fateful night when

Lucy decided enough was enough.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

It's really important to me because your,

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so baristas has just utterly changed

my life and a lot of my friends lives.

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, so when I decided that I was

going to do a podcast, You were

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probably the first person that I

knew that I needed to speak to.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Silence.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

address some of the

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issues that you're having.

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Um, and you obviously did

that quite a long time ago.

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and you went on and set up this

wonderful resource for everybody else.

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But if we can start at the beginning, I'd

like to know from you what is your story?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Well, I feel a little bit like I'm

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perhaps telling my story again to

people who've maybe heard it before,

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but I'll go back to the start.

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the start was just, I suppose, 1980s.

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I was playing the 1970s and 80s,

just like a bit of a Wild West,

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wasn't it, growing up in the 1980s.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm, mm

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

just drank.

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Everybody was a bit rebellious.

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All my friends at school drank.

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We all smoked.

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We all dabbled in kind

of recreational drugs.

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drinking was For me, like never

something that I wasn't going to do.

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Like, as soon as I got to 13 and it

was a pair of my parents, friends,

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new year's eve party, I was just

like, that's what you do at a party.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

mean, just like hit the booze room

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monumentally got really drunk,

really in trouble with my parents.

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And that was basically the star.

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I thought it was marvelous.

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I thought I'd just

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Mm

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

this amazing thing.

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So carried on drinking really kind of.

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Quite happily, I would say.

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I mean, definitely defined myself as

a party girl, just loved going out,

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loved socializing, was a bit, naughty.

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And although I was a bit of a liability

from the off, I mean, I definitely didn't

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have an off switch And I recognized that.

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It didn't really trouble me.

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I sort of wore it as a badge

of honor and thought it was

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quite cool to get out of it and

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

hmm, mm

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

these crazy things.

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It wasn't till I was 27 when I

got divorced and started using

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alcohol on my own a lot more.

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I think before then it had always been

quite a social thing and then from

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

onwards it was A bottle of wine

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a night was kind of my staple.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

daughter went to her dad's.

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So I'd be on my own all weekend.

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So I'd just go out.

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and sort of rekindled my youth I suppose.

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that was kind of that eight

year period, 27 to 35, that

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was just catastrophic for me.

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I was drinking every night, awful

mistakes, you know, just making really bad

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errors of judgment because I was drunk,

waking up in bed with people who know who

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they were, , just utter self loathing,

just hated myself, blackouts all the time.

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And then, but never kind of thought.

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Maybe I should stop drinking.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: that I've

got all this crap going on in my life.

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I just always thought it was

my life, you know, and the

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alcohol helped me cope with it.

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it wasn't until I was 35 and

things had become a lot more, I

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don't know, sinister, I suppose.

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Just kind of, I was depressed, I was

very, I was, I was, I definitely kind

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of crossed the line into quite sort

of regular, bad drinking episodes.

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It wasn't happening sporadically anymore.

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It was happening at least once a week.

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I was having a major blackout and

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: you

know, peace the night before together.

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then I woke up in hospital one morning

three o'clock in the morning and had no

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idea where I was, what happened, just

had no memory at all from the night

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: When

I'd gone up to the local Tesco's near

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me and bought another bottle of wine,

but actually bought two because they

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had a buy one get one free offer,

I ended up drinking three bottles

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of wine in quick succession, then

passed out on the pavement outside

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my house, and then somebody had found

me and called an ambulance, then

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I'd woken up in hospital covered

in sick, and no idea what happened.

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So that was just kind of this massive

rock bottom and I just, first time I

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think, realised, any shadow of a doubt,

I had a very destructive relationship

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with alcohol and it staggers me now when

I think back, that I hadn't pieced that

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together before that night, because so

many bad things had happened, and yet

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I've carried on drinking, but for some

reason that night, did something else.

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It like shifted something

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: knew

I was never going to drink again.

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I knew I couldn't ever drink again.

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So it was just this enforced sobriety.

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That's what it felt like.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, so dangerous though, isn't it to?

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Be having those blackouts

and not have a clue, right?

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what happened?

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What said to who?

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But I mean, the fact that I've read

your book as well, and the fact

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that you were outside and sort of

collapsed outside your home as well.

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It's lucky somebody found you, isn't it?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

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And, I didn't go out for about

a week after that happened.

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I was just terrified of, you know,

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: not

knowing who you'd spoken to, who'd

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seen me, because it was literally

just right outside my house.

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So I had no idea if people had walked

past me and I've been lying in the gutter.

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I mean, I just didn't

know what happened at all.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mortified is the word.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

you called it to me.

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when you were interviewing me, you

called it the cloak of shame that

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you have, sort of throughout the

whole time when you're drinking.

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And I really recognize that just that.

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God.

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Like, what did I say?

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What did I do?

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please don't let there be anything awful.

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But you know, there is,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

know, there is.

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Um, and so what happened then?

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What happened the next day?

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So you woke up in hospital.

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Did you just go home by yourself

or did someone come collect you

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I was

with the person who found me a friend,

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so he'd stayed with me in the hospital.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Oh,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

So when I woke up, he was there,

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so he brought me home in a taxi.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mm-Hmm?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

and I just went to bed and cried

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for a week and didn't want to

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Hmm

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Just couldn't face, I couldn't

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look myself in the mirror.

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I mean, I was.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: mm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: it

was like the worst thing that had ever

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happened to me by a million miles.

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It was just

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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Mm-Hmm?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

And then just slowly started

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putting the pieces back together.

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I suppose I did I did kind of

know right from the moment I,

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realized what had happened that

I was never gonna drink again.

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it was an instant decision.

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So that was easy.

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Like I wasn't kind of,

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm-Hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: was

no more like di denial or you know,

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that kind of chatter in your head that

negotiating, well, maybe I wasn't that

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bad, you know, there was none of that.

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I was like, I can't ever drink

again, otherwise I'll die.

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So that was easy.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm-Hmm?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: then

I realized when we stopped drinking,

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that I'd been using alcohol to.

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Emotionally anesthetized myself for years,

so Stuff that I've been pushing down with

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alcohol Depression, anxiety, low self

confidence, low self esteem being a bit of

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an introvert being a bit socially awkward

All of that stuff was like, oh my god

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Mm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

now I've got to learn how

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to be an adult, basically.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

at the time, I felt like a 15

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year old in terms of my emotions.

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I'm just sort of frozen,

but no emotional maturity

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm-Hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

And I just had to learn everything,

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like how to function as an adult

which was, a massive journey.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

But you say that happens don't they?

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If you have any kind of addiction from

the age that begins, that is almost

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the age that you get to emotionally,

because you don't learn how to do

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anything with happiness, sadness,

anything you just, what you do is drink.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

wash it, with alcohol.

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So you never

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

strategies or you never get any confidence

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resilience or belief in yourself.

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It's all just kind of fake, isn't it?

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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I haven't actually had any therapy.

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I've never gone for any therapy yet,

but I often wonder if I do, how much of

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this sort of stuff is going to come out.

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It's going to be all that kind of thing.

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I imagine the self confidence

thing for me was a biggie.

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Um, yeah, gosh, it's a bit

of a rock bottom, isn't it?

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I haven't spoken to many people

who've given me an actual rock bottom.

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Yourself and William Porter have been

the rock bottom stories, which I know

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that there are so many people who are

having those, they're just afraid.

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Some people don't have the

strength or whatever that was

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that in your brain just went, no,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

mean, when I look back now, it's

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kind of remarkable that there was

so many awful things before that.

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And really, any one of those should

have been the catalyst for me stopping

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

somehow I managed to convince

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myself it was okay and carried on.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah,

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: one,

it was really like a very noticeable.

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Light that's been, you know, a

switch had been flicked in my head.

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It just changed me completely.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

I think we're similar like that

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because I didn't end up in hospital

or anything, but I did have one

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final night of drinking where I did

have blackout, couldn't remember.

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and the next day I'd caused some

kind of drama, fell out with my

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husband and, I knew that day.

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I just knew that was the end of it.

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I didn't have that doubt.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

wasn't sure about how I was going to do

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it and I was worried that I wasn't going

to be able to do it, but I knew that it

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was something that I was going to do.

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and that's when Soberistas came in.

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Because I needed to know from

people who had done it and were

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doing it, like, what do I do?

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You know, when I joined Sir

Rusa's, it very much was like,

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find me some connections.

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Cause when I do things, probably like

you and lots of, People like us, I'm

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all in, in good things as well as bad.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

I just need to be immersed,

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literally baptized in all of this

stuff so that there is no other

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way, nothing else for me to see.

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which is why I'm excited about you having

an app because that'll make it even

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quicker and easier for people to get on.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: yeah.

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that's the beauty of the online

version of help for this, isn't it?

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

it's instant.

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Yeah.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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And I love that you have the choice

to be anonymous, which most people

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will have a site name, won't they?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: And not

many people put a photograph on, which is,

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

always say to people I talk to coaching

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or I'm so brisk as I am so full of

admiration for anybody who, Can do that.

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I couldn't speak about it for

like a year and a half after I

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stopped drinking to anybody I

just didn't speak about it at all.

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

what did you do for that year and a half?

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Well, I ran a lot

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I went

to my local Buddhist Center and started

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meditating which I've never done before

but I just felt like I had to find

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some kind of spiritual meaning and way

of calming my brain down if I wasn't

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going to be able to drink anymore,

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

drastically changed my

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social life, just stopped

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squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm.

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lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: cut

off huge numbers of people who I'd

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: 00:11:46

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

272

: 00:11:47

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: kind of

hung around with, but I just Was just

273

: 00:11:49

sort of isolated myself completely.

274

: 00:11:52

Not what I would necessarily advise my

275

: 00:11:55

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No.

276

: 00:11:55

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

clients to do.

277

: 00:11:56

But in those days, 12 years

ago, there was AA, recovery.

278

: 00:12:03

And Jason Vale's book, which did help,

but I didn't discover that until a year

279

: 00:12:07

and a half after I'd stopped drinking.

280

: 00:12:09

So there was really kind of

nothing that was designed for women

281

: 00:12:13

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

282

: 00:12:13

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

drinking a bottle of wine every night.

283

: 00:12:15

It all just felt very hardcore,

you know, physically addicted,

284

: 00:12:19

alcoholics, alcohol addicted people.

285

: 00:12:22

And I just

286

: 00:12:23

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

287

: 00:12:23

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

and so all the help that I could

288

: 00:12:26

have come to was just not me.

289

: 00:12:28

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

290

: 00:12:28

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

I just did it on my own.

291

: 00:12:30

I just ran.

292

: 00:12:31

I wrote my blog, started writing

a blog after a few months.

293

: 00:12:34

I did talk to a couple of girlfriends

who at the time had also kind of had

294

: 00:12:39

destructive relationships with alcohol and

they'd stopped around the same time as me.

295

: 00:12:43

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

296

: 00:12:44

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

and she was a bit of a,

297

: 00:12:46

sober inspiration, I suppose.

298

: 00:12:48

I remember meeting her for a coffee

and, she was telling me how her life

299

: 00:12:51

had changed she'd started doing yoga

and her confidence was coming back she

300

: 00:12:55

was kind of a bit of a, that was like

a real life soberistas, I suppose,

301

: 00:12:59

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

302

: 00:13:00

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: And

I was like, Oh my God, look at her.

303

: 00:13:02

she's been sober for like a year and she

used to be such a boozer, you know, I was,

304

: 00:13:07

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

305

: 00:13:08

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

than me when we drank and

306

: 00:13:10

she turned her life around.

307

: 00:13:11

I remember thinking that's.

308

: 00:13:13

What I want to be like, you know,

309

: 00:13:14

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

310

: 00:13:15

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

inspirational.

311

: 00:13:17

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Well, there you are.

312

: 00:13:17

You are.

313

: 00:13:20

And some.

314

: 00:13:22

It's brilliant.

315

: 00:13:23

so when did So Brewster's come about then?

316

: 00:13:27

Mm hmm.

317

: 00:13:27

Mm hmm.

318

: 00:13:28

Mm hmm.

319

: 00:13:29

Mm hmm.

320

: 00:13:30

Mm hmm.

321

: 00:13:31

Mm hmm.

322

: 00:13:31

Mm hmm.

323

: 00:13:32

Mm hmm.

324

: 00:13:33

Mm

325

: 00:13:35

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Near

about around about a year maybe like

326

: 00:13:37

10 months after I stopped drinking that

I have the idea And then that's when I

327

: 00:13:44

was going out with Sean who is the other

half of Soberistas We're not together

328

: 00:13:48

anymore But we were then and I and he

had some tech skills and I didn't So I

329

: 00:13:53

said to Sean I've got this idea, but I

remember thinking it's the tech was, I

330

: 00:13:57

was really nervous about telling him,

you know, when you've got an idea and

331

: 00:14:01

you're about to put it out there for

the first time, you've got no idea

332

: 00:14:04

whether somebody's just going to think,

nah, or if they're going to support it.

333

: 00:14:08

And I was like, I just got

this idea about website.

334

: 00:14:13

Like a sort of confidential space,

but not to help people stop drinking

335

: 00:14:17

necessarily, more just like a space

that was confidential and safe where you

336

: 00:14:22

could talk to other people who, who got

it, who understood what you were going

337

: 00:14:26

through, so you didn't keep it all in.

338

: 00:14:28

That was basically it.

339

: 00:14:30

And I said, you know, like a social

network website, but for people who've

340

: 00:14:34

got a really, you know, who've got a drink

issue, so they can talk honestly about it.

341

: 00:14:38

And he was like, I think

it's a really good idea.

342

: 00:14:40

I'll help you do it.

343

: 00:14:41

And I was like, Oh, okay, great.

344

: 00:14:43

And that was basically it.

345

: 00:14:44

So then we spent the next six

months, kind of putting it together,

346

: 00:14:48

use this off the shelf platform.

347

: 00:14:51

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm.

348

: 00:14:52

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

carried on writing my blog so that

349

: 00:14:54

I'd sort of built up this following.

350

: 00:14:56

I had about 900 people following my

blog by the time we launched Sobristas.

351

: 00:15:00

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Wow.

352

: 00:15:01

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: And then

we launched it in November that year.

353

: 00:15:03

Yeah,

354

: 00:15:04

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Is the blog available?

355

: 00:15:06

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

on WordPress.

356

: 00:15:08

written anything on it for ages.

357

: 00:15:10

I think it's probably about five or

six years since I wrote anything on it.

358

: 00:15:14

But all my old blogs are on there.

359

: 00:15:15

Like the first, you know,

the first blogs that I wrote.

360

: 00:15:18

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

What's it called?

361

: 00:15:19

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

It's just Soberistas on WordPress,

362

: 00:15:21

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Oh, it's Brewster's.

363

: 00:15:22

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: yeah,

364

: 00:15:23

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Okay.

365

: 00:15:23

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Soberistas WordPress blog,

366

: 00:15:24

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Oh, I didn't know about that, so

367

: 00:15:25

I'll be having a look at that.

368

: 00:15:26

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: very

funny now when I read, because it

369

: 00:15:28

was written in the very early days.

370

: 00:15:30

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

371

: 00:15:30

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

from: 2012

372

: 00:15:32

it was very new to me being sober and

373

: 00:15:35

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

374

: 00:15:36

No,

375

: 00:15:37

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: all kind

of, you know, how you are at the beginning

376

: 00:15:40

where you just don't really know what

you're doing and it's all a bit scary.

377

: 00:15:43

Yeah, so it's funny reading it back.

378

: 00:15:46

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

blogging is great, isn't it?

379

: 00:15:47

I only have a blog on Soberistas.

380

: 00:15:49

I don't blog anywhere else because

I like the safety of the space and

381

: 00:15:52

I like knowing that the audience is

the audience that is intended for.

382

: 00:15:56

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah,

383

: 00:15:58

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

I just feel comfortable doing it there,

384

: 00:16:00

but I've done it since very early days.

385

: 00:16:04

the first time I put something out

there, I was absolutely terrified.

386

: 00:16:08

I thought, no, one's probably

really going to want to read this.

387

: 00:16:11

And then you started to see people

were commenting and saying, well done.

388

: 00:16:14

And this is amazing.

389

: 00:16:16

And all this, wow.

390

: 00:16:17

I just, it, it.

391

: 00:16:19

Even that, you know, just to be able

to tell your story on there and, and,

392

: 00:16:24

and even if it's just the story of

that day you've had, or for me, it

393

: 00:16:27

was a camping trip I wanted to talk

about or like anything like that,

394

: 00:16:31

that came up and you put it out there

and there are so many people on there

395

: 00:16:35

who are like, Oh yeah, that's me.

396

: 00:16:37

I've done that.

397

: 00:16:38

I feel like that.

398

: 00:16:39

All of a sudden, those things that you

thought, You know, the shame that we

399

: 00:16:43

talked about earlier that you kind of

like ashamed of for thinking like, I had

400

: 00:16:48

this thing around, I drink too quickly.

401

: 00:16:51

Like not just alcohol, , like I

drink anything too quickly and,

402

: 00:16:55

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah,

403

: 00:16:56

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

I put it on something and then loads of

404

: 00:16:59

other people were going, oh yeah, me too.

405

: 00:17:00

Like I'm a gulp.

406

: 00:17:01

I drink really quickly.

407

: 00:17:02

It was just brilliant to have

this place, you know, where

408

: 00:17:06

you're just suddenly not so weird.

409

: 00:17:07

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

never say and you would never

410

: 00:17:09

say it in real life, would you?

411

: 00:17:10

You know, when somebody's sort of

chatting to you and how are you or

412

: 00:17:13

whatever, you never, oh, terrible.

413

: 00:17:15

I had a blackout last night because

414

: 00:17:16

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah,

415

: 00:17:17

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: much

and you never ever talk about it ever.

416

: 00:17:19

So we've

417

: 00:17:20

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: no.

418

: 00:17:20

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: this kind

of internalized shame, all these secrets.

419

: 00:17:24

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah,

420

: 00:17:24

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: that was

the absolute, behind Sobristas was just

421

: 00:17:28

to get at that, exactly that, that you

422

: 00:17:30

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

yeah.

423

: 00:17:30

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: people

and go, Oh God, it's not just me.

424

: 00:17:33

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

425

: 00:17:33

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

the whole purpose of it initially.

426

: 00:17:36

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, it's definitely successful at that.

427

: 00:17:39

it's obviously evolved over the

years and lots of other ways

428

: 00:17:42

of communicating and there's

WhatsApp groups everywhere as well.

429

: 00:17:44

Now I know for the teams from the hundred

day thread, and I'm on one of those.

430

: 00:17:49

I was on that very early and

there's zoom opportunities.

431

: 00:17:52

I know you do coaching as well.

432

: 00:17:54

There's so many different resources there.

433

: 00:17:57

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

434

: 00:17:58

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: but

even if you just took the base value of.

435

: 00:18:01

I just want to put my story

out there and talk to people

436

: 00:18:04

and see there's someone else.

437

: 00:18:05

You can just do that.

438

: 00:18:06

Can't you?

439

: 00:18:07

It's got everything really.

440

: 00:18:08

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: And just

know, you're not some awful person that

441

: 00:18:11

you're actually just a human being and

you've got a problem that millions of

442

: 00:18:15

other people have all over the world,

you know, which is a great comfort

443

: 00:18:18

when you've got that kind of shame.

444

: 00:18:20

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

445

: 00:18:20

It really is.

446

: 00:18:21

I don't think I could have found

a better space that suited me.

447

: 00:18:26

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Oh,

448

: 00:18:26

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

because yeah,

449

: 00:18:28

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: to hear.

450

: 00:18:36

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

people.

451

: 00:18:37

I suppose I'm lucky in that.

452

: 00:18:39

Well, I'm not lucky in that I had

to make this decision a bit later,

453

: 00:18:42

because if I'd done it earlier,

it would have been even better.

454

: 00:18:44

But when I made the decision, there

was lots of stuff that I could access.

455

: 00:18:49

the other thing that I've done is read

your book, which I mentioned earlier.

456

: 00:18:53

Did that come.

457

: 00:18:55

Before Saberistas or after Saberistas.

458

: 00:18:57

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Soberistas, that was so Soberistas

459

: 00:19:00

launched November, I'm just thinking

that's crazy,, it was very quick.

460

: 00:19:05

I wrote that book very,

well, it was the first book.

461

: 00:19:08

I've written five books, but the

first book, The Sober Revolution,

462

: 00:19:11

we wrote in three months.

463

: 00:19:13

So Soberist was launched in November, and

t book was published in July,: 2013

464

: 00:19:20

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Oh, wow.

465

: 00:19:20

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: was

like that first six months of that's

466

: 00:19:23

when we got loads of media interest.

467

: 00:19:26

we were doing a lot of publicity and,

468

: 00:19:28

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

469

: 00:19:28

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

and that was when we decided, You

470

: 00:19:30

know, need a book out there as well.

471

: 00:19:32

So I just wrote that in like three

months, which I just think now I

472

: 00:19:34

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Wow.

473

: 00:19:35

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

baby as well,

474

: 00:19:37

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: God.

475

: 00:19:38

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

was really like going for it.

476

: 00:19:40

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

You're a machine.

477

: 00:19:41

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I

wouldn't be able to do it now at 49.

478

: 00:19:43

I tell you, I don't

know what was going on.

479

: 00:19:45

I think it was the excitement

of not drinking anymore.

480

: 00:19:48

I have so much energy

and so much more time.

481

: 00:19:50

I thought I could do anything here.

482

: 00:19:52

I felt invincible.

483

: 00:19:53

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

484

: 00:19:54

I think you do.

485

: 00:19:55

I have that bit.

486

: 00:19:56

I am 49, but I still feel like

that because I've only stopped

487

: 00:19:59

it in the last three years.

488

: 00:20:00

I still feel like this is amazing.

489

: 00:20:01

People say to me or how, cause I'm

learning to run at the moment as well.

490

: 00:20:05

So you'll be pleased to hear I'm

trying, I've done the couch to 5k.

491

: 00:20:09

Oh, I'm still not a runner list

to be fair, but I'm doing my best.

492

: 00:20:14

And then obviously I'm doing this

at a full time job and I've got

493

: 00:20:16

two teenage kids, so it's busy.

494

: 00:20:18

And people say to me, oh,

how have you got time?

495

: 00:20:20

And one of my friends recently said,

how do you have time for this stuff?

496

: 00:20:22

And then she went, oh yeah,

you don't drink, do you?

497

: 00:20:25

And I was like,

498

: 00:20:26

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I know.

499

: 00:20:26

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

well, there you are.

500

: 00:20:27

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: isn't it?

501

: 00:20:28

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, you do

502

: 00:20:29

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

got back 30 hours a week

503

: 00:20:31

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

yeah.

504

: 00:20:32

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

like, extra time every week.

505

: 00:20:35

Which is a huge amount of time, isn't it?

506

: 00:20:37

To do stuff with your

507

: 00:20:39

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

508

: 00:20:39

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

constructive and

509

: 00:20:42

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

510

: 00:20:43

Just really good stuff.

511

: 00:20:45

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

512

: 00:20:46

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

what have been the biggest positives

513

: 00:20:49

that you've got out of turning your life?

514

: 00:20:52

Cause it's, your life must be almost

unrecognizable from what it was before,

515

: 00:20:58

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, completely unrecognizable.

516

: 00:21:00

I think the things I've gotten

out of it on a personal level,

517

: 00:21:03

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm,

518

: 00:21:05

mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.

519

: 00:21:07

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

my kids, I would say.

520

: 00:21:09

Family relationships.

521

: 00:21:10

There is no way I would have relationships

I've got with my kids if I drank.

522

: 00:21:16

There's no way.

523

: 00:21:17

I think that was the absolute biggest

thing because I became such a better

524

: 00:21:21

parent, so much more emotionally present.

525

: 00:21:25

getting rid of the shame, was probably the

thing, because I lived under this cloak

526

: 00:21:30

of shame my whole adult life because of

the way I drank and the things I did when

527

: 00:21:34

I drank, and I never felt like I was.

528

: 00:21:37

as good as other people.

529

: 00:21:38

I always felt like a bad person,

like a really bad to the core person.

530

: 00:21:43

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: Oh,

531

: 00:21:43

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: That, I

know, I mean, it's horrendous, isn't it?

532

: 00:21:46

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

it's really sad, isn't it?

533

: 00:21:47

That you've Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm

hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.

534

: 00:21:55

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

aspirations, no

535

: 00:21:56

confidence, no self belief.

536

: 00:21:58

have rubbish jobs, but you

know, no kind of expectations

537

: 00:22:02

for myself, no aspirations.

538

: 00:22:04

And when I look at my daughter,

my older daughter now, who's 25,

539

: 00:22:09

she's got such high hopes and

expectations for her own life.

540

: 00:22:14

She strives for the best all the time.

541

: 00:22:17

And she really believes in herself.

542

: 00:22:18

And I just, look at her and

think, Oh my God, when I was

543

: 00:22:21

26, I was self destructive.

544

: 00:22:24

I was going out with people

who were violent and abusive.

545

: 00:22:27

I was hanging around with drug

addicts and drinking myself

546

: 00:22:31

into oblivion all the time.

547

: 00:22:32

I mean, I just have such a

self destructive existence.

548

: 00:22:37

And, and so that, you know, getting

rid of the shame and realizing

549

: 00:22:41

that I actually deserve to be

happy and to have a nice life.

550

: 00:22:45

And then to go about creating that

was on a personal level, probably

551

: 00:22:50

the most important thing apart

from relationship with my kids.

552

: 00:22:54

But then in terms of my lifestyle, what

it has given me, obviously, is Soberistas

553

: 00:22:59

and a self employed income, I'm self

employed doing something that I love,

554

: 00:23:05

that I really believe in, that's got, you

know, gives me a huge sense of purpose.

555

: 00:23:09

So I feel like I've got freedom,

because I live a life that's mine,

556

: 00:23:12

it's very authentic, and that's kind

of priceless for me, because, yeah, I

557

: 00:23:17

don't, I don't follow the rules very

easily, I like doing things my way,

558

: 00:23:21

But it's not why I got sober, and

it's not why I set sobristers up, but,

559

: 00:23:24

but as a kind of happy by product,

560

: 00:23:27

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah,

561

: 00:23:28

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: me a

life that feels like mine, and it's

562

: 00:23:30

given me a life that feels free,

and that's just really, lovely.

563

: 00:23:35

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

564

: 00:23:35

I think it's interesting how, um,

so I mean, I obviously haven't

565

: 00:23:39

done anything like set up.

566

: 00:23:40

So baristas value wise, this podcast

fits very well with my values and

567

: 00:23:45

life purpose, which I've recently

been devising with a coach as well.

568

: 00:23:49

what you say about having low

expectations for yourself.

569

: 00:23:53

that was very much me and not

in terms of personal life.

570

: 00:23:57

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: Yeah.

571

: 00:24:10

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: that

I wasn't in on, and then when I stopped

572

: 00:24:13

drinking, I was like, I'm actually quite

capable, this is weird, like I'm actually

573

: 00:24:19

quite capable and just, I think it's

the confidence, isn't it, that you get.

574

: 00:24:24

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

confidence and it's that perpetual

575

: 00:24:26

waking up in a morning like this drip

feed of, Oh shit, what have I done?

576

: 00:24:32

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, I'm an idiot.

577

: 00:24:34

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: yeah, that

dread and that everybody being mad with

578

: 00:24:37

you and having to face the music every.

579

: 00:24:40

You know, however often you

580

: 00:24:42

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

581

: 00:24:42

into that kind of state.

582

: 00:24:44

That, over decades, is

so self, so harmful to

583

: 00:24:50

Yeah.

584

: 00:24:50

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

of identity and our self

585

: 00:24:52

belief and our confidence.

586

: 00:24:53

It just destroys it.

587

: 00:24:55

You

588

: 00:24:55

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

589

: 00:24:56

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

up thinking you're rubbish.

590

: 00:24:58

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

even if it's not the mornings after

591

: 00:25:00

some catastrophic thing, but even just

the mornings where you think, I just

592

: 00:25:03

wish I hadn't had anything yesterday.

593

: 00:25:06

And there was so many of those.

594

: 00:25:08

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: it's not

kind of congruent with, yourself, is it?

595

: 00:25:12

When you're

596

: 00:25:12

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No.

597

: 00:25:13

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

it's impossible, to have

598

: 00:25:15

a high opinion of yourself

599

: 00:25:17

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

600

: 00:25:17

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

respect yourself.

601

: 00:25:18

you don't like yourself

602

: 00:25:20

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No.

603

: 00:25:21

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: and

604

: 00:25:21

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: No.

605

: 00:25:22

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: it's

a very destructive way to live because

606

: 00:25:24

you end up then making choices that fit

with that self identity, which is low.

607

: 00:25:30

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

608

: 00:25:31

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

So your choices are bad.

609

: 00:25:33

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

610

: 00:25:34

So it's probably a really strong

message, you know, For people to

611

: 00:25:38

understand that, that this, this does

impact that this doesn't just impact.

612

: 00:25:43

It's not just a hangover.

613

: 00:25:44

It's not just you feeling a bit rubbish.

614

: 00:25:46

This is quite far reaching, isn't it?

615

: 00:25:48

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

absolutely.

616

: 00:25:49

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: feed

into so many different parts of your life.

617

: 00:25:52

I don't think people appreciate that.

618

: 00:25:54

You know, when you say that you

don't drink anymore or you're

619

: 00:25:57

getting sober or whatever.

620

: 00:25:58

Where you want to phrase it.

621

: 00:26:00

People don't realize what that

means, but it means a lot more than

622

: 00:26:03

you're just not having a drink.

623

: 00:26:04

It means that you're really going

to have to get to know yourself.

624

: 00:26:08

You're going to have to sit with

emotions that maybe you didn't

625

: 00:26:10

before learn how to deal with them.

626

: 00:26:11

Like you said, go from 15 to 35

in terms of emotional maturity.

627

: 00:26:18

Yeah.

628

: 00:26:19

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

kind of learning curve, isn't it?

629

: 00:26:20

And it's not easy, but it's necessary,

to be truly happy and to regain

630

: 00:26:25

that self confidence and self worth.

631

: 00:26:28

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah, absolutely.

632

: 00:26:32

our time is nearly gone, I can't

believe, I only do half an hour, the

633

: 00:26:35

time has just flown speaking with you.

634

: 00:26:38

if someone was listening, and they, and

they were like, and they were like you

635

: 00:26:41

were, and they were having a bottle of

wine a night, and they weren't comfortable

636

: 00:26:44

with that, and they were also having those

blackouts, what would you say to them?

637

: 00:26:49

what can they do?

638

: 00:26:50

what sort of mindset might they need

to have to achieve a different type

639

: 00:26:54

of life that might make them happy?

640

: 00:26:57

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: I think,

it's such a difficult one, isn't it?

641

: 00:26:59

Because when you're in that place,

you lie to yourself, don't you?

642

: 00:27:02

You

643

: 00:27:02

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

644

: 00:27:03

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: let

go of alcohol because you believe

645

: 00:27:05

it's alcohol that's helping you get

646

: 00:27:07

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Yeah.

647

: 00:27:07

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

awful period of your life.

648

: 00:27:09

You don't realize it's

alcohol that is the problem.

649

: 00:27:12

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Mm hmm.

650

: 00:27:14

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: think

kind of being on, on, or, or being in

651

: 00:27:18

some kind of Contact with other people

who are further down the line from you

652

: 00:27:23

and letting go of your own ego So that

you believe or you you trust what other

653

: 00:27:30

people who are further down the line are

telling you Is really important because

654

: 00:27:34

it's you can't see it when you're in

that place You just cannot see it and

655

: 00:27:38

what other people tell you is true.

656

: 00:27:40

So when somebody further down the

line is saying I don't feel the same

657

: 00:27:45

anymore, I don't want to drink anymore,

658

: 00:27:47

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106: hmm,

659

: 00:27:47

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

myself now, you know, my

660

: 00:27:49

life has got meaning now.

661

: 00:27:50

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mm hmm, mm hmm,

662

: 00:27:52

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

to me was because I was drinking.

663

: 00:27:53

They're telling the truth, because that

stuff Is repeated all the time, isn't it?

664

: 00:27:57

It's what we all hear and see on

so Brisas all the time, it's real,

665

: 00:28:02

but you don't necessarily see

that at the start of that journey.

666

: 00:28:06

So it's kind of putting your

faith in your own gut instinct.

667

: 00:28:10

If this feels bad and you are

stuck in a cycle that feels

668

: 00:28:14

like it's really damaging.

669

: 00:28:16

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

mm hmm,

670

: 00:28:17

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: you're

not having those thoughts for no reason.

671

: 00:28:19

It

672

: 00:28:19

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

yeah.

673

: 00:28:20

Yeah.

674

: 00:28:22

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

trust other people who

675

: 00:28:24

are further down the line.

676

: 00:28:25

And be, influenced by them.

677

: 00:28:27

Because they'll, they'll

guide you in the right way.

678

: 00:28:29

And I, I really kind of love that.

679

: 00:28:32

I love Soberistas so much because

it's, it's sort of restored my

680

: 00:28:37

faith in human beings, really.

681

: 00:28:40

You know, from coming from a place where

I was very isolated and very sort of

682

: 00:28:45

stubborn, I suppose, in terms of asking

for help, seeing that community, which has

683

: 00:28:51

lifted so many people out of despair by

being nice and kind and non judgmental is

684

: 00:28:58

such a lovely thing, if you open yourself

up to that, I believe you can change

685

: 00:29:02

all the bad stuff you're going through.

686

: 00:29:05

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

You can, you definitely can.

687

: 00:29:07

Well, I'm a very good example of

that as are hundreds and thousands

688

: 00:29:11

of women who have done the same.

689

: 00:29:13

And men, there are men

also on Save Baristas.

690

: 00:29:16

but yeah, it's a fabulous place.

691

: 00:29:17

It really is.

692

: 00:29:18

I'm so honored that you've

spoken to me tonight, Lucy.

693

: 00:29:21

Thank you.

694

: 00:29:22

Um,

695

: 00:29:22

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: me.

696

: 00:29:23

It's

697

: 00:29:23

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

well,

698

: 00:29:24

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106: to be on.

699

: 00:29:24

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Thank you.

700

: 00:29:25

I feel like a little graduate

of Soberistas right now.

701

: 00:29:29

I can sit here and have my cup of

tea and just feel great about life

702

: 00:29:33

and have all of those wonderful

connections that I've made there.

703

: 00:29:36

So honestly, thank you from

the bottom of my heart.

704

: 00:29:39

all of the teams that are constantly,

I mean, you don't see it all, but

705

: 00:29:43

there's just constant messages going

on between those people that you've

706

: 00:29:47

connected together, yourself and Sean.

707

: 00:29:49

so thank you to you both.

708

: 00:29:50

I do feel quite emotional about it.

709

: 00:29:52

So I'll probably come off before

I start falling at the end of my

710

: 00:29:56

podcast, but, thank you so much.

711

: 00:29:58

It's a real pleasure.

712

: 00:29:59

lucy-rocca_1_11-04-2024_174106:

really lovely to be on your podcast.

713

: 00:30:01

Thank you for asking me.

714

: 00:30:02

squadcaster-c4b4_1_11-04-2024_174106:

Thank you.

715

: 00:30:08

Thank you for listening.

716

: 00:30:09

To Sabre alcohol-free stories.

717

: 00:30:11

If this episode helped you, please.

718

: 00:30:13

Please like share and follow.

719

: 00:30:15

Or leave a review on pod chaser.

720

: 00:30:16

Dot com.

721

: 00:30:17

And if you've got a story to

tell, please contact me on Sabre.

722

: 00:30:21

A F stories@outlook.com.

723

: 00:30:24

And don't forget.

724

: 00:30:25

You can make your catch phrase.

725

: 00:30:27

I don't drink.

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