In this conversation, I sit down with Jaime Hawryluk to explore the transformative and often disorienting journey of motherhood, particularly the identity shifts that can follow postpartum. Together, we unpack the grief, loss, and self-discovery that so many mothers experience as they try to reconcile who they were before motherhood with who they are becoming.

Jaime shares candidly what it was like to crawl out of the trenches of early motherhood after years of darkness, and how she is only now beginning to feel her “pink” return. She challenges the idea of work-life balance, offering a more compassionate perspective—one that recognizes life, motherhood, and work as ever-evolving. We talk about how the pressure to “find balance” often fuels self-judgment and reinforces the false belief that mothers should have it all figured out.

Through both her lived experience and professional lens, Jaime opens up about the healing practices, mindset shifts, and hormonal insights that supported her reconnection with herself. This conversation is raw, honest, and deeply relatable for any mother navigating identity loss, grief, and the slow, courageous journey back to herself.

Key Takeaways

1. Feeling disoriented after becoming a mother is a common and valid experience
2. Identity can expand through motherhood instead of needing to be “found” again
3. Acknowledging grief around change can create space for healing and clarity
4. Personal growth often begins when we stop resisting who we are becoming

About the Guest:

Jaime Hawryluk is a registered palliative care nurse and certified functional hormone specialist. She’s an entrepreneur, host of the “Cut to the chase” podcast, wife, and mother of two. Her journey through motherhood has been shaped by profound transitions—having two babies back-to-back, navigating late postpartum depression and anxiety, and grieving the loss of her father just five months postpartum.

You can find her on Instagram @jaime_yourhormonegirl

About The Host:

Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault is a family physician with a clinical focus on aesthetic medicine, women’s health, and psycho-education. Her work is grounded in a holistic, whole-person approach that integrates medical science with a deep appreciation of the mind–body connection. Alongside her clinical practice, she is deeply committed to medical education and mentors the next generation of family physicians through her work with the Department of Family Medicine at the University of British Columbia.

She is the founder of Reclaim The Pink Within, a community created to support women through life’s most profound transitions. This project was born from personal experience. After becoming a mother, Dr. Oliver-Dussault became aware of a quiet but profound shift in her sense of self, one she had long observed in her patients, yet only fully understood once she lived it herself. What had once been a clinical observation became a deeply personal insight, shaping the lens through which she now supports and guides other women.

You can connect with her on Instagram at @drchristellemd and @reclaimthepinkwithin

Website: www.getyourpinkbackproject.com

Email: [email protected]

Medical Disclaimer

The Reclaim The Pink Within podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only. The content shared in this podcast reflects the personal views and professional experiences of the host and guests and is not intended to replace medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

While Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault is a licensed physician, this podcast does not constitute a doctor–patient relationship. Always seek the advice of your own qualified healthcare provider regarding any medical or mental health concerns, diagnoses, or treatment decisions. Never disregard or delay seeking professional medical advice because of something you have heard on this podcast.

Thank You for Listening

Thank you for spending your time with us and for being part of the Reclaim The Pink Within community. This space exists because of women who are willing to listen, reflect, and engage in conversations that are often kept private. Whether you are in the midst of transition, questioning who you are becoming, or simply seeking connection, your presence here matters.

Your willingness to show up—for yourself and for others—is what makes this project possible.

Subscribe to the Podcast

If these conversations resonate with you, be sure to subscribe to the Reclaim The Pink Within podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Subscribing ensures you never miss an episode and helps support the continued creation of thoughtful, meaningful content for women navigating identity, change, and reconnection.

New episodes are released regularly, each offering insight, reflection, and shared experience.

Leave Us a Review

If you found value in today’s episode, we would be grateful if you took a moment to leave a review. Your feedback helps this podcast reach more women who may be quietly navigating similar experiences and wondering if they are alone.

Reviews not only support the growth of the podcast, but they also help normalize these conversations and bring them out of the shadows—where they belong.

Being in the trenches of motherhood and being in that darkness and, like,

looking at your body and, like, what you're like, what the hell happened here? Like,

this is not. This is not what I thought things would look like

postpartum. That's rude. But. And. And just, like,

losing who you are, and then it's like your flavors of your

past self combined with, like, new flavors. And.

But you're also learning what those new flavors are and

what you like and what you don't like. And so it's

rediscovering, like, when you become a mom, like, you are rediscovering who you

are. And. And it's. You're like, you. You want

so badly to have the old you back, but the

old you is. Is so much better now. Welcome back to

the get yout Pink Back project podcast. I have Jamie with me here

today. She is a woman who wears many, many hats.

She is an entrepreneur, a hormone

specialist who does some coaching. She's also a paddle care

nurse. She is a wife, and she is a mother of two wonderful children.

But we're not here to talk about those roles. We're here to talk about her,

about Jamie. So welcome. Thank you for making the time to be here with me

today. Oh, thank you for inviting me. This. I'm excited. It's gonna be

fun. Yeah. So before we dive into your journey into

motherhood, I think it'd be really useful to maybe share

who Jamie was before Jamie was a mum and had all these hats that she

and I wears. Yeah, it does. It does feel like a lifetime ago and, like,

a whole separate, like, entity. But I

was definitely someone who. And I think this will probably play

into the conversation we're going to have. I was very organized. I

was slightly type A, very driven and

motivated in all the things I love

being into,

just creating as much as I can, whether, you know, I was in nursing

school and then decided to get into, like, fitness, fitness training

and competing even. And

I was somebody who, yeah, always wanted to be learning something

new. And when. Yeah, when I became a mom, it. That kind

of all kind of halted drastically. Did

you have any expectations of motherhood before stepping into it? Oh, I

think that, like, that it was going to be a lot easier

that it was going to be. It was going to be

something that was a little bit more magical. And, I

mean, it's magical in a different way, but definitely not kind of like what

I anticipated. I. I don't think I anticipated,

like, how dark it can get and lonely.

And I think That's a huge, a huge

disservice that we do as. As women who are

mothers to other mothers is not maybe share ex

what that looks like. You know, no one told me like breast. That breastfeeding was

like horrifically hard. Like for some people it's easy, but

for majority of us it's really tricky. So,

yeah, that was, that was kind of a huge adjustment and learning

curve for myself. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about

those first few months in motherhood. How. How did you

adjust to the change? Well, I think too like for

myself, we, my husband and I tried to get pregnant for

quite a while. I think was after a

year we opted to go into, you know, utilizing

fertility treatments and we started with

iui. So the intrauterine insemination did two rounds of that

didn't work. And then we took a month off because it was going to be.

It was Christmas and we were going to be back home and just wasn't around

for like the timed blood work. And so

luckily enough we got pregnant on that month off.

So when you really like the mind game

of getting pregnant is one is a whole nother story.

Right when you. If you don't get pregnant easily.

And so when this baby is born, it's like everything that you ever

wanted. And I remember very clearly

coming home from the hospital and I ended up having emergency

C section and came home and I

was sitting on the ground with my back against the couch and we had

our dog next to. Next to me and Jordan sitting on

the couch and I had this like, baby. I don't even know where Layla was

at the time. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, like,

what have we done? What ha. Like,

it was just this like, oh, like, what do I do with this

baby now? And.

And it only lasted this, this feeling only lasted like a few minutes.

But it was like looking at the dog and Jordan and it was just

the three of us for so long and then all of a sudden we have

like this baby and I, like, I have no idea what to do with this.

And you know, even though I'm a nurse

and very well prepared in majority of my life

prepping for motherhood, I didn't spend a lot of time there.

I truly was just like, oh, I'll figure it out when I get there. Like,

I'll figure it out. You know, I'll have this motherly instinct that

will kick in. And, you know, I didn't really kick in. So I felt

really unprepared and I was something that's learned.

Yeah, I know there's. Which is, there's a narrative that the motherly instinct kicks in

is to a certain degree, yeah, we will have insight. But

it is something that you can't prepare for and you just, you kind of

learn on the go, as scary. And daunting as it is for someone. Who likes

to prepare. Yeah. And I honestly, I guess what I thought is

that like that instinct that they called it was just going to be

stronger, more clear. And that I was like, okay, I'm just

going to know what to do. And I. And I didn't.

And I didn't struggle for the first couple

months with like mood or anything like that. It was a

tricky time because at six weeks postpartum,

my dad went into hospice and I wasn't

living in the same town. And so that was. I

remember mom. My mom came to visit us in the lower

mainland. She took the bus, um,

and we got the phone call that dad was getting transferred, he had Parkinson's and

was getting transferred into hospice. And we literally picked my

mom up from the bus stop, turned

around and drove back to Kamloops in a blizzard

like it was. And it was dark. And so I, you can imagine on the

Coquihalla, I can picture it. My mom, my mom and I

and my. And my husband and this little six week old

baby in the backseat. And thank God she just left the entire

time. I couldn't imagine having to pull over and trying to breastfeed her.

And I was still learning how to do that and, or give her a bottle

or anything. And I was like, I, you know, I kind of have this

rule where it's like, I don't like to travel on that highway like past October

1st till about March 1st. So I was really like, not doing

okay mentally with that. And so, yeah, it was

kind of like a whirlwind. For those of you who aren't in

British Columbia, the Coquihalla highway is a very dangerous

mountainous highway that goes from the west coast into the

interior. And there's very changeable weathers and there are

quite a lot of accidents on it. So your fears are validated.

And then to add on the fact that, you know, you're a new mother,

the changes that happen with that, and then the news

of your father going into hospice, it's a lot to process and

very short space of time. Yeah, it was like a time where

it just all felt like a blur and it was like where

you just like in. I don't even know if you want to Call it instinct,

but you just, like, kind of just. You just do whatever you have to do.

There's a time to process anything mentally. You just literally go through

the motion. Yeah, we're in survival mode. Exactly. Yeah. And it was.

Yeah, it was a wild, wild time for the first

few months. Yeah. And then did you manage. Did you end up

then staying in Kamloops for a little bit as your dad was

transferred into palliative care? Or were you between the lower mainland

and Kamloops, trying to navigate being a new

mom and your father whose life was ending?

Yeah. And so he, for, you know, just. I

mean, I know this to be true because I work in palliative care. He kind

of did the typical, like, jump back. Like, he kind of perked up,

we like to call it. Yeah. So it's not uncommon for someone

to come into hospice, especially if they're in the hospital first, which is

where he came from, and go into hospice and then kind of have this moment

where he perked up. So we ended up going back home.

My husband had to go back to work, and so he went home

for a few months and then came back at Christmas time, and then he

passed just after Christmas. So Laila would have been.

Yeah, four or five months old at the time.

And so that kind of led to.

Well, what. And what ended up happening is I was breastfeeding was tough enough

for myself as it was. Like, I went and saw a lactation

consultant. I took, like, the Domperidone to help with, like, milk supply, along

with, like, all the supplements, such as, like, fenugreek. And then I think there

was another one. And so I was just like, there's this constant, like, battle of,

like, getting milk. And then when dad passed,

that milk supply, like, really plummeted. And I think my

capacity to just get that milk

supply going and going, like, the work that I was doing to

get that going. And don't get me wrong, I was topping her up with a

formula, a bottle, because, you know, I've just mentally could

not take all of that. But it really. I saw that milk supply really

plummet after dad passed. And I was spending a lot of time with my mom

here, you know, with her in. In Kamloops, and, you

know, getting the funeral plans ready and. And all

the things that need to occur.

And Layla spent a lot more time with. With my husband

than with me. So, again, getting that stimulation and everything like that.

And I didn't pack my pump or anything. I wasn't expecting, like, we were coming

home for Christmas Just to visit. And then we got the phone call that he

passed. And it was like, although he was.

He didn't actively pass in the sense of where

he became unresponsive. And then the natural death

process, he actually ended up falling and then passed away

from the fall. So it was still. Although it was expected, it was

unexpected, if that makes sense. Yeah, maybe a little bit sooner,

quicker. Not the death that you had imagined.

No, I kind of envisioned that the natural death process

of semi responsive, non responsive and then passing.

So it did have that kind of hitch of like,

you know, it being, you know, a sudden pass.

And, and so when that milk supply really

kind of shifted, I do believe that that's kind of what

led to this severe postpartum

depression anxiety. So that happened probably a month

or so after dad passed. And so, I mean, at the

end of the day, was it the hormones from breastfeeding that

were keeping me kind of like together

or, you know, just the grief kind of coming

in at that time, the hormone shifts that occur,

all the things. I think it was probably a combination of, of it all

that kind of like led into this, like, very debilitating

postpartum depression anxiety that

I honestly felt so physically ill. I actually thought that I was

pregnant because I just felt physically unwell. I

didn't have a lot of, like, intrusive thoughts or anything like that. I

just couldn't. I just felt sick. And

Jordan was out of town at the time, and I

luckily enough had some like, incredible girlfriends. And I was like, you cannot leave

me. Like, I'm not well. You need to come and sit with me. And I

would, they would come, you know, some of them come sit in the morning with

me. Afternoon and then evening until

Jordan came home. So I'm really, really, really thankful for that because it

was, it really. It knocked me out. Yeah. Like, I.

What did this sickness feel like? It felt like an alien kind of had taken

over my body. Like, I felt like just this foreign

presence in me. And like, I

was just like, I. I just felt so,

like, physically sick. Um, I

couldn't get out of bed, which is not like me at all.

Someone who's a go getter to be then just like

very unwell to, to just, you know, just. I remember

in the morning, like, hearing her cry, and I was just like, oh, my gosh,

no, no, not yet. Like, took me a little bit more time.

And I was so entranced in this

depression that I remember there was a time I would

wake up and I would put her in, like,

oh, I'm gonna get all choked up about it. But I would get. Put her

in the Jolly jumper and then I would put her to the Exor saucer and

then I put her on the floor mat with like all the little things above

her and I would just like rotate her

until Jord came home, until my husband came home. So that was kind of like

how I dealt with it until the antidepressants kicked in. And those were

like my saving grace for

everything. So, yeah, I need, I needed those things.

Yeah, they can be really helpful when

you need them. What was the supposed trigger or

the moment where you decided to seek help? Was it something that came

from you, or was it your partner or friend

who noticed something in you and was concerned or something else

altogether? Yeah, well, Jordan was actually on

out of town and he actually was with one of our friends who is

a physician. And you know, I was calling him, being like,

something's wrong with me, like I do not feel well, like something's

changed, like I'm not okay. And so he spoke to his

friend and he's. And his friend was like, yeah, she sounds like she's really struggling

with postpartum depression, anxiety. Like she needs to see a doctor, like

asap. So when my husband came home, he's

like, you need to go to the doctor. He was so

adamant. He was like, you're going to the doctor like right now. And

so the next morning I called and luckily enough,

the doctor's office, she got me an appointment that day.

And so I think it was. I think I called at like 9am I

think I was there by 11 and saw the doctor. It

wasn't the best experience with, with the doctor.

You know, at one point he like, as I was expressing and sharing how I

felt, he like looked at his watch, watch, like, oh,

okay, this is. I'm cutting into some time here, so I'll just

hurry this up. Um, but as a nurse, I was just like, you know

what? This is like my first experience of really struggling with

my, with something health wise. And it triggered.

Hard being on the other side when you're used to being.

Well because you see both aspects of it, right? It's just like, you know, the

medical system is, you know, is tricky and it's hard right now. And,

and so, but I just was like, I had. That was like my first

feeling of like, I really have to have to advocate for myself here,

you know, like, regardless of how the doctor is like treating me,

that doesn't matter. I need, I know what I need to Get. I need an

antidepressant. I need something in the meantime because I know that

antidepressant is going to take a little while to kick in potentially and

I'm not well, so I need something like right now kind of thing.

You were very good to advocate for yourself when

you were so vulnerable and really probably

felt dismissed by his like non verbal

cues and just the. Which may not have been the intention but when you're in

that space and you see that it feels quite invalidating and like

you're. You don't matter. Your illness doesn't matter. Exactly.

Yeah. And I think like too I do like, you know, give everyone the

benefit of the doubt. I don't know if that was his intention. That's how I

felt. But then at the same time it said regardless of how I felt, like

I needed to get what I needed from him to

get so that I could get better. And so I

followed that up too with making

like I'm very. I have a very holistic lens in that sense where

it was just like, I know like I was by my, like I wasn't by

myself, but I was by myself in the sense that I wasn't in my

hometown. I didn't have all my sisters and my

brothers. I come from a big family. I didn't have my mom, I didn't have

my mother in law. And so I had to get better

like really quick. You know, Jordan works full time. You know, he

has a very strenuous job. He works a lot of overtime. I didn't have an

option. I had to look after, I had to look after my daughter who I

barely could get out of bed for. So

I had to get fixed real quick.

So I didn't stop just at that medical doctor appointment. I went

on to see a natural path. I did acupuncture,

you know, supplement, different supplements and herbs.

Went and saw a grief counselor. I cut alcohol and

caffeine. One's a depressant, one's a stimulant.

Like I'm doing all the things, like I'm just like I did

not even what can I do? But when you're

that desperate, when you're that desperate and how you feel

is just not yourself and you have a

baby to look after, you will do whatever it takes.

I did whatever it took to get better

because I needed to get better for my family. And so, and I

journaled and I. And I read books and I

just focused on my

mental health, my spiritual health, my physical health, the

best that I possibly could. And I think a

combination of all the things helped, but I truly think that, like, once that

antidepressant, like, kicked in, I was like, you know, I

could function a bit better.

I'll say just a little bit. Did you ever have a

moment where you started to feel like you again or you had

something be like, oh, like, there she is. There's glimpses of me.

Yeah, it was when getting out of the house wasn't

so overwhelming. So

my mom. My mom, she's so amazing. So. Oh, I got it choked up

again. I'm like,

right on my cycle. So you hit me at a really good time.

But my. My mom came down and

she's like, you gotta get out of the house. You need to get, you

know, like, you need to sign up for the baby and me swimming

lessons. You need to go to the library and

go to, like, the Mother Goose thing. Like, she was really good at, like, being

like you. What are you doing? You're just sitting in this house all day, like,

no, like, let's go. So I think it

was when that became easier for me. Like, I still

remember showing up to, like, the little Mother Goose

thing, activity that they had for moms and babies at the library,

and I was like. I

couldn't even have a conversation with anybody. Yeah. And I

think I was just like. The meds were kind of kicking in, but, like, I

was still taking the other medication for the times that

the anxiety was really, really significant. And

I was just. Yeah, I could not even formulate

a conversation with somebody. So when I started to notice that

that was easier, I was like, okay, we're.

We're getting there. We're getting there. The light. There was light at the end of

the tunnel for me. So. Yeah. Yeah, she kicked my

butt. My mom, she's just like, what are you doing? You can't. You can't just

sit here all day. Like, no one. No wonder you feel like this.

I'm like, yeah, this is valid point, right?

I didn't have a lot of. Yeah, I just didn't have

a lot of girlfriends at the time, too, that had kids that were

my age that kind of were just like, you know, pulling me out. So.

Yeah. Yeah. And you had multiple griefs you were going through. You had your father's

grief, and then you had your own grief of, you know,

the person you were before becoming a mother as well.

I know in private conversations, you mentioned that you guys got pregnant quite quickly

with your second.

Tell us about. Maybe throughout, you know, you were doing all the

right things, getting Back on your feet and

maybe how you found out what went through your head.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, like, again, as a nurse and someone who,

you know, knows how to get pregnant,

it never really. To get pregnant. Struggled to get

pregnant before I. You know, the. The conversation with

Jordan, and I was really just like, okay, let's just see what

happens. Right? Like, we were very open to

just. Yeah, let's just see what happens. We have this beautiful baby girl.

Obviously, I had. Was going through a really, really hard time.

Um, but I was starting to feel better.

And so I got pregnant when Laila was seven

months. There were definitely, like, I. There was never,

like, the reaction of, like, oh, no. It was more of, like,

oh, how did that happen? Even though you know how it

happens, but you're just like, oh, okay. Well, I

thought that was. I thought it was gonna take a lot longer than it did.

Like, that it. Than it was going to. Because it took longer with Layla, and

you just have this expectation that it's going to take a long time when in

reality, like, not always the case. So

I remember just the panic, though,

of, like, the. So the doctor,

for whatever reason, put me on an antidepressant that wasn't

safe to take while pregnant.

And so that was a big. That

was probably my biggest concern was just like, is this baby gonna be

okay? Right. Um, and I did find out, like, it wasn't, like,

I was a few months along. I found out, like, at my first missed cycle

that I was like, oh, wait a second. This. My period's taking a lot longer

than usual. I'll go and do a test. And.

And. And then, yeah, I was just like, oh, wow. Like, I got a.

So I. I was already kind of connected with my midwives with

Layla's delivery, pregnancy and delivery. And so I connected with

them again. And so I was advised to just cold turkey the antide,

which obviously terrified me because I

didn't know what was gonna happen. Like, what I had gone through

was so awful that I was just like,

I don't know if I have it in me to go through that again. And

I think that's a feeling that we have as humans. Like, I don't know if

I can go through this again, but we are so resilient, and

we're so resilient as moms. And when it's like, when we have, you

know, another human being to literally care for, it's like, you'll do

absolutely anything, right? So, like, you find that strength inside of

you. And so I just Made sure

that I had a really good girlfriend who was close by,

kind of on speed dial. And I let Jordan

know, you know, what the deal was going to be for the days that I

was going to be, you know, just like, hey, like I have to stop this

cold turkey. Just expect like if I call you in the middle of your

workday, if you can answer the phone, that would be appreciative. If you

can, I understand. But like, don't ignore my phone call just because, you

know, like, you don't feel like talking to me. And so,

so he, yeah, it was a rough couple days,

but it was okay. It was okay. Like I felt

pretty crummy, but for the most part I was, I was okay.

And then, yeah, and then the pregnancy,

it was a bit tricky. I was so back to back with my

pregnancies. I really had to hustle to get my hours in as

for EI as a nurse and

didn't quite make it. So we went back to work six

weeks postpartum, not full, like not full hour, 12

hour shifts. But I was able to pick up, you know, four hours here,

six hours there and then apply for ei, which, you know,

we'll save that whole concept of like EI and Matt leave

for another day. Definitely someone who's

self employed, right? Yes,

same. Right. And so it's just crazy,

the system and all the things. So yeah,

I think, yeah, we could. Probably have a whole podcast or episode on

how society supports mothers who also have

careers. Throughout all of that,

I want to circle back to your breastfeeding experience. Did

you feel pressure, external

pressure to breastfeed or do you feel like that was something more internally driven, that

was important to you or a mix of the two? I think it's a mix

of the two. I mean, obviously I know

you know that I, I, I wanted to breastfeed, but at

the same time it was the same as like my delivery

plan. This is okay. So I knew that

if I over, if I hyper focused on what I

wanted an experience to be like that if it wasn't like that,

I was going to be really disappointed. And I didn't want to be disappointed. So

I didn't make a birthday plan because I was like, it's probably not going to

go that way. I don't want to be disappointed. Um, and I didn't.

Both my, both my pregnancies deliveries

were emergency C sections. So

same with breastfeeding. I, I just thought that,

I just thought it was going to be easy and I

really wanted it to be Easy. But Layla was born with a very

severe tongue tie, so we had to go and get

that lasered. And the recovery of that

is really not great for

anybody, Right? You have to, you know, kind of rub that incision

every time you're gonna breastfeed. Well, can you imagine, like,

the work that has to be done just to get them latched?

You know, before you even latch them, you're causing them pain,

right? It was. It was awful and, like, such a mind game for me.

And so, um, but I think that, yes, there's. I

think there's obviously the external

pressures, like, you know, from the healthcare

team to social media, to

peers, family pressures to.

To breastfeed. And luckily enough,

like, my mom didn't breastfeed with me, did breastfeed

from. With most of her kids. And so she was a really good

kind of support system for me. And she's just like, James, like, if

you can't do it, like, get a bottle. Why? Why? You know, and

she's from that generation. It's like, why are we fussing over this? Just give her

a freaking bottle, right? There were different pressures. I think we definitely put

a lot more pressure on ourselves to do all the things

and be the perfect mother and do the breastfeeding and have the natural birth and,

you know, sometimes that, you know, we have a different course. So. Yeah.

Difficulties getting pregnant, traumatic births.

Did you find it hard to recover both physically and mentally from the

C sections? I mean, I wouldn't know any different.

Um, so I. I

didn't struggle much. Like, I think that because I was in relatively, like,

good shape and, and health wise prior to the C

sections, I think that was a. A benefit.

I. I found it hard. You know, the one.

The one thing that kind of. I kind of get a chuckle out of

is like, when they're like, hey, you can't do this, you can't do that, you

can't lift whatever pounds afterwards,

you know, like, okay, so are you also supplying me with a.

An assistant because my husband has to go back to work. Like,

I have to get this baby that I like after, you know, having

Layla and Kai so close, like, once Kai was born, I was

having to pick Layla up out of her crib still,

you know, trying to wrestle her in. When we go out with, like,

the baby, like, it just. I'm surprised

I didn't do more damage to myself, but I think that we just have

to do what you have to do, right? So I think I was okay. I

mean, there's definitely parts of me that wish that I had a, you know, a

natural vaginal birth, you know, just to experience that.

And. Yeah. And, you know, we had, like, it.

Yeah. Both births were just a little bit. Things kind of went a little bit

sideways in both of them, you know, Kai was transported

immediately to Royal Columbian. Cause Ridge Meadows

Hospital doesn't have a nicu. And he was four weeks early

and needed some assistance with breathing. So, you know, there

was the trauma there of, you know, having this baby on, you know,

and then have it taken away and then removed from the

building that you're in. And you have. You. You

don't see him for. I didn't see him for probably like

six hours. Wow. And so.

But I do want to say, and also to my goal with the breastfeeding

with Kai is like, if this boy doesn't

latch, if this isn't an easy experience, I'm not doing this.

Yeah. I'm not doing this. I'm not playing this game.

Right. Like, if he better latch and it better be like, or else we're

not doing this. And so I pumped. But ultimately he was in the nicu.

He was, you know, teeny tiny.

I. I was just like, give him a bottle. Like, poor guy. Like, I'm

not. I'm not messing around here. This little kid has been. This baby

has been through enough. Like, I. Not also then

withholding food because I need to

breastfeed, right? Yeah, no,

he needs to eat. That's number one priority. Let's get on bottle of

formula. Let's get going. Right. And so. And

I do want to share that. No, I know that, Like, I don't know who

they are, but, like, you know how they. My mom and I always joke about

this. Like, they say, you should do this, this, this. I'm like, my

mom's like, who is they? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know who they

are, but they exist and they play. They

shove this information in our faces as new moms. That brings out a

whole nother level of anxiety and stress.

But for us, for a baby who

was torn away from me right

away, transferred to another hospital in the

nicu, wasn't breastfed. That child is

so connected to me. Like, nobody

loves me like my son. And so I think that

there's also this, like, language and this talk about, you know, oh,

like the golden hour and you have to do skin to skin and, you know,

breastfeeding. That's how your baby is going to connect with you

now. Yeah, there's always. Yeah, there I. And I know that there's other.

There's research that shows all of that, but I have to say that

my son is very connected to me regardless of

all the obstacles we face, so. Well, you must have that narrative

in your head for that to be so important to you now.

And you hear from other moms, right? You hear it from other, like, my girlfriend

just had a baby and she's like, well, then we have to do this and

we have to do that and all these things like post birth. And I'm like,

I'm like, you've seen how Kai is with me, right? Like, just so you know,

that doesn't happen. You're going to be okay. And I

just. Yeah, I just think that society

wise new moms are just. Oh, the torture that we

go through and that from the noise. There's a lot of

noise. And it's. Yeah, it's not helping.

Not helping us. Did you have any emotions in motherhood or

have you had any emotions, motherhood that have surprised you, that you wish you would

have been prepared for? I think that

just, I think it's just like

the losing yourself in motherhood. How easy. That slippery

slope, you know, that slippery soap. Because it's not like you just like wake

up one day and you're like, oh, I just, I lost myself in motherhood. It's

like this like perpetual erosion, you know, roller coaster

of, of, you know,

being in the trenches of motherhood and being in that darkness and

like looking at your body and like what you're like, what the hell happened here?

Like, this is not, this is not what I thought things would look like

postpartum. That's rude.

But. And, and just like losing who you are and then

it's like you, you know, you're. You're not the same per your,

your flavors of your past self combined

with like new flavors. And. But you're also

learning what those new flavors are and what you like and

what you don't like. And so it's rediscovering

like when you have, when you have, when you become a mom, like you are

rediscovering who you are and, and it's. You're

like you, you want so badly to have the old you back,

but the old you is, is so much better now. Right? It's

like an, it's an upgraded. Yeah, you

evolve. And so I think that just

understanding like, because you don't see it right

away, like when you know, having, especially when you have two back to back, it's

like you're just in survival mode. Like, I don't remember. Like my mom said to

me, she's like, yeah, I came and stayed with you for two weeks after

Kai was born. I have like, no recollection of

that. I was like, you did. You were in my house for two

weeks. Like, my we let you stay here for that long.

And she's like, yeah, you don't remember? I was like, no, I remember you being

there, but I don't remember the timeline. And you know,

I think too, like, the, the beauty of,

the beauty of life and I really truly think that everything happens for a reason,

is that Kai was born just a,

almost a year to the date that we lost dad. And then the

fact that I, I wasn't just solely breastfeeding

allowed my mom to have those moments with a newborn

baby, you know, breast or bottle feeding him and, and

being able to help, I think that was really healing for her. And I think

it was. I just, yeah, I just think it was just how

everything was supposed to happen. Just how everyone had that

healing moment. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with the timing of the

anniversary of his passing. Yeah. Yeah. How was your

mood with Kai second time around? Did you find that it dipped

as much or did you not? Was that a completely different

experience for you? Totally different experience. And that's where

I feel like, you know, the grief, the breastfeeding probably all

played into that, but I did, luckily enough. Like, I, it was on

my radar. And luckily enough, I had so many people checking in with

me that was just like, hey, like, how you doing? Like, no, but how are

you really doing? Right? And so, and I'm forever

grateful for those friends and the family that I that

did that. But no, luckily enough, I didn't struggle with anything

mood wise. I, I do remember standing

in front of the sink washing bottles and I was like, is. And I was

looking out the window, I was like, is this going to be my life forever?

Like just, just that, right? And you just have these moments that I

like you, you reflect back on as a new mom that you kind of chuckle

at now. Like, yet, no, sweetheart, you're not gonna be washing freaking bottles

for years to come. Like, there comes a time

I call them mummy milestones where you no

longer have the bottles and then you no longer have the diapers and

then, you know, you no longer carrying the diaper bag around. Those are mommy milestones.

Or like now it's like they wake up and they can make their own breakfast.

I'm like, oh, mommy milestone. Right? So

it's you know, kind of just like reminding. Yeah, just

reminding yourself that is

motherhood is ever changing. No, no. Day looks the

same. All the challenges you think you get into like a groove of like,

okay, I'm rocking this. And then they just come in with like a

whole new scenario. You know. Now

it's like how you know how to properly not properly. Well, properly,

sure. Properly talk to them as you know, a six

and eight year old. They're little humans now in school.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. So

how has motherhood or has motherhood impacted any of your

relationships? I think it. Well, I think that

you. For myself I just became a lot more

selective but also too, I had a

really amazing conversation with. With my best. One of my best friends

who is a brand new. But obviously you

know, she was. She didn't have kids when I had

them and I had spent the night with her and

she was sharing with me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna switch your

question just a little bit and just however you want to. Well,

just like. But the other side of things, which is really interesting. So

she was very honest with me about. She's like, well,

you never told me about how you were struggling with breastfeeding and

you never told me about like this and that, that you were strugg. I didn't

know that like you know, that your postpartum depression anxiety was like

this significant because I was sharing all this with her because then

she had a baby. And so it's interesting when you have the friendship,

the ones that have kids you seem to share a lot more with

than the ones who don't. And I don't remember being like, oh, I'm not going

to share this with her. She doesn't have kids. She's not going to understand. It's

just that I think I really at that time enjoyed having

conversations with her that didn't involve me talking about my

kids. Yeah, like it wasn't that I didn't want to. I

didn't think that she could relate. It's like I just don't want to talk about

my kids anymore. I want to hear about what you're doing and your adventures and

like living through her. You know, she's a very

driven, motivated individual with

that. Nursing is her true passion. And so it was fun to have those

conversations because I was just sitting on Matley for years and years. Right. It

felt like it wasn't that long. Long, but it felt like it. And so, you

know, in another world, another. Yeah, I was, you know, in

la La Land. Big time. And so it was, you know,

hearing her perspective of being the friend

without kids when I had them.

Her. Her perspective of our friendship that was

like, didn't even. Wasn't even on my radar

to then, like, her having a baby and then us. The

conversations that occur at that time. And

so I think now

I love having a variety. Like, I'm blessed to have some

of my closest girlfriends choose not to have kids.

Yeah. And I love that I get both. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's nice to have the choice. It is. And I actually want

that for. For Layla, too. Like, I want Layla to be

surrounded by women who have chosen not to have kids and who have kids

so that she doesn't feel that pressure to. That she isn't,

you know, that society pressure that as women, we need to have babies.

It's like, well, you know, there's still value when you

choose not to be a mother as well. Yeah. Yeah, there

is. Is there anything else that you'd like to share from your experience

that you think may help our listeners? Either someone

who's in the trenches or who is pregnant and expecting

their first baby? I think that when. The biggest

benefit to myself when I was going through the

postpartum depression anxiety is

I just talked. I talked to anyone who had listened

to me about how I felt, and I just kept talking and talking and

talking about it because I didn't want anyone

to feel like they were alone in it. And

I felt like. I think it was honestly just therapy for me just to

speak about everything that was happening. It was almost

like, if I. If I talk about it, then I'll. I'll get better faster. Right.

Like, that was, you know, if we just talk this out, I'll get better. But

is. Yeah, just don't. If you're

feeling not like yourself, and you're

feeling

like your. Your mood is impacting

how you show up every day, don't be afraid. Like, go and

talk about it with someone. Um, I just actually had a hormone client that

I was like, you know what? You need to get off the phone with me,

and you need to go call your doctor. And I. Cause I think you need

antidepressants. Yeah. And, you know, that's usually not my

first line of defense. Usually it's more of like, let's look at your nutrition and,

like, look at. But it was significant enough that I was like, no, you. You

need. And then once you do that, then you can come in

and we'll. We'll chat things out. So I think it was very brave

of you to feel so comfortable talking about

how you were feeling, because many women will internalize that and

feel shame in talking about their mood, which was a big driver for doing

podcasts and having these conversations that we tend to have them either

with ourselves or one or two trusted friends. And

that, you know, you got the support and the help that you needed, and, you

know, you are now thriving in motherhood and all the different things that you do,

and the support that you are giving to your friend who's just entering her journey

is priceless, really. So thank you. Well, and I

honestly, I don't know why, you know,

I don't know. Like, I mean, I think that just like my background, I worked

in psychiatry for a while prior to becoming a mom, too, and I

may. I don't know, but I. I don't know.

I get that women are. Want to keep it internalized, and there's so

much shame. But at the end of the day, like, you have to understand, like,

that's not serving you, and you're not going to get anywhere

internalizing it and feeling alone, and you're going to suffer,

and it's going to last longer, most likely. So it's like,

if anything that you do for yourself is have the conversations, talk it

out, talk to anybody who'll listen, get the help that you

need. Again, for me, it was like, I'm

gonna do all the things, and some people don't have

capacity for that. I just think that I was one of those people that I.

I knew something was wrong, and I know I

knew I needed to fix it. I needed to fix it as soon as

humanly possible because I needed to carry on as a month.

So. Yeah, and don't be so hard on yourself either. As new

moms, like, just, you know, try not

to. We need to stop being so hard

on ourselves. We're doing amazing jobs, and we're just human, and life is

short, so you just have to enjoy it as much as you humanly

possibly can. So, yeah, thank you for that. Yeah.

We covered a lot today. Difficulties conceiving, difficulties with

breastfeeding, grief, loss of a

parent, loss of yourself, postpartum mood,

the different supports that you had. I think this is something that's going to

help quite a lot of people, if not even just to get them to open

up. So before we finish, I tend to ask people to

leave me with a quote or a mantra, so I'll share yours. You

wrote, I'm here for a good time, not a long time.

Let's care. That which I think is. Yeah.

Speaks to the importance of not putting too much pressures on ourselves.

So thank you very much, and for those of you listening,

if you enjoyed today's episode, please share it

with someone who might benefit from the episode. Or you can always get in

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Take care. Bye now.